I have been reading all, well most of the posts, about the amount of power the battery and regulator can supply for accessories. I was wondering if i were to put a second regulator in parallel with the stock one and route all the accessories through that one if it would work.... It seems like the stator supplies enough power that it would work and wouldn't affect the main power system. I'm thinking it would work, but im just a nooby... any feback would be great. :dunno_black:
The regulator isn't the limiting factor concerning electrical power generation, the generator is.
Let's say you wanted to light your bike up like Elvis' Christmas tree and put in a 300-watt stereo and a microwave and coffee pot. Adding another regulator wouldn't help. You'd need a generator with more output, and a beefier regulator to match. Since to my knowledge there aren't higher output generators available that will fit in the engine, you're limited to the output of the stocker, which is 190 watts if I remember correctly.
I wondered how long to bill chimed in! Listen to the man, any electrical troubleshooting thats gone on lately that man has gotten it right!
you could alway strap a honda generator on the back seat and run whatever you want off that.... :thumb:
>:( ok thanks , just a thought hadn't heard of anyone trying it. still be neat to see what would happen
This has always been a big question for me......... The max output of the alternator is a grey area, unlike some bikes I have owned I have never been able to find a quoted figure for it in any manual. Given its a 12v system Ohms law says that anymore than 240w drawn off it would allow more than 20A to flow which would cause the fuse the blow. The question is........does the alternator actually have the capacity to deliver 240w and the fuse is there to protect it from overloading and maybe burning out or does the alternator run out of steam before this without damaging itself?
Anyone, anyone?
Total wattage for E model with all the lights ,pair of blinkers and horn is greater than 250 watts
First gen SV650 is listed in one of the tests in CycleWorld mag at 300 watts at 5000rpm :dunno_black:
Just checked ,the main fuse on SV is 30A , but I don't think that max current ever reached under normal conditions
it's just a protection against shorts and overcharging.
Anyway they both have similar alternator output so I guess GS is also 300W capable
May 69 Cycle magazine in the first ever GS500E road test says it's a 225 watt AC generatator. That's the one that has more road test data than any mag since including the gearing data I use frequently for reference. Sadly, Cycle mag was absorbed into Cycle World mag shortly after that.
On the other hand the Aug 04 Rider mag test says charging output is 200 watts max.
Quote from: gsJack on April 03, 2009, 04:04:45 PM
May 69 Cycle magazine in the first ever GS500E road test says it's a 225 watt AC generatator. That's the one that has more road test data than any mag since including the gearing data I use frequently for reference. Sadly, Cycle mag was absorbed into Cycle World mag shortly after that.
On the other hand the Aug 04 Rider mag test says charging output is 200 watts max.
And I just calculated the wattage again for the E model and came at ~ 180W ,so I was wrong in my previous post ,
but it makes me wonder because I run dual headlamps and with them it's closer to 240W and the battery gets a charge
of ~13V at 5000rpm with all of them on ( I'll recheck to be sure and report back )
225w sounds about right Jacko, that means a max current in the system of 18.75A at 12v, just below the fuse capacity.
Head light 55/60w lets go with 60W plus pilot 1.7w, add the dial lights 3.4w each total 68.5w
Tail lights 5w each, 10w total
Indicators 21W each 42w total plus pilot 3.4w and say 1w for the relay 46.4w
Thats about 132w total so far.
Put the brakes on and it adds another 42w bringing us to about 174w
Horn? ok it will draw a lot of current but its only for a few seconds at most so its negligable.
That leaves about 50w in reserve to power the ignition system and keep the battery charged up.
Quote from: airnuts on April 03, 2009, 11:27:24 AM
>:( ok thanks , just a thought hadn't heard of anyone trying it. still be neat to see what would happen
The regulator is only gonna change the AC current to DC current and regulate the amount of voltage going to the battery. The voltage coming out of the alternator is actually higher than 15v so it any excess gets dumped to ground. Only reason to piggy back a regulator is to have a backup in case one craps out. Then unplug the bad one and connect it to the good one. Honda VFR's have a big problem with overheating the regulators and this option was considered. Overall output (wattage) is only gonna be changed by upgrading the alternator itself.
Quote from: Affschnozel on April 03, 2009, 04:22:16 PM
Quote from: gsJack on April 03, 2009, 04:04:45 PM
May 69 Cycle magazine in the first ever GS500E road test says it's a 225 watt AC generatator. That's the one that has more road test data than any mag since including the gearing data I use frequently for reference. Sadly, Cycle mag was absorbed into Cycle World mag shortly after that.
On the other hand the Aug 04 Rider mag test says charging output is 200 watts max.
And I just calculated the wattage again for the E model and came at ~ 180W ,so I was wrong in my previous post ,
but it makes me wonder because I run dual headlamps and with them it's closer to 240W and the battery gets a charge
of ~13V at 5000rpm with all of them on ( I'll recheck to be sure and report back )
Only getting 13v? I thought this was normal too until I compared btwn 2 GS's. A 96' put out around 13v & 93' 14.6 which leads me to believe I have a bad connection causing the voltage drop. Need to check it out.
dueling regulators is a bad thing...one will win eventually
it is why you disconnect the jumper cables after you get the car running
also the reason you start a bike with a car engine off
the car reg is bigger and more powerful...and will eat the motorcycle reg
Quote from: ATLRIDER on April 03, 2009, 04:59:37 PM
Only getting 13v? I thought this was normal too until I compared btwn 2 GS's. A 96' put out around 13v & 93' 14.6 which leads me to believe I have a bad connection causing the voltage drop. Need to check it out.
It makes sense in my case,the max is 225W but my setup requires ~240W which is borderline on 20A max current
Ohms law must apply and voltage must drop to maintain the equation though , I'll check the charging under max load and post results latter
I would've liked to check actual current but afraid of frying the multimeter :icon_razz:
Quote from: werase643 on April 03, 2009, 05:22:19 PM
dueling regulators is a bad thing...one will win eventually
it is why you disconnect the jumper cables after you get the car running
also the reason you start a bike with a car engine off
the car reg is bigger and more powerful...and will eat the motorcycle reg
I agree connecting them together to operate at the same time is a bad idea. Not designed to work that way and don't see the benefit.
Quote from: Affschnozel on April 03, 2009, 05:28:25 PM
Quote from: ATLRIDER on April 03, 2009, 04:59:37 PM
Only getting 13v? I thought this was normal too until I compared btwn 2 GS's. A 96' put out around 13v & 93' 14.6 which leads me to believe I have a bad connection causing the voltage drop. Need to check it out.
It makes sense in my case,the max is 225W but my setup requires ~240W which is borderline on 20A max current
Ohms law must apply and voltage must drop to maintain the equation though , I'll check the charging under max load and post results latter
I would've liked to check actual current but afraid of frying the multimeter :icon_razz:
Not sure if it works that way. Regulator/rectifier is gonna put out what's it's designed to regardless of extra load. That being said, I was also running dual headlights on the 96' (13v) and they're currently being installed on the 93' That should provide some definitive results. I'll post back with them.
Quote from: Affschnozel on April 03, 2009, 05:28:25 PM
Quote from: ATLRIDER on April 03, 2009, 04:59:37 PM
Only getting 13v? I thought this was normal too until I compared btwn 2 GS's. A 96' put out around 13v & 93' 14.6 which leads me to believe I have a bad connection causing the voltage drop. Need to check it out.
It makes sense in my case,the max is 225W but my setup requires ~240W which is borderline on 20A max current
Ohms law must apply and voltage must drop to maintain the equation though , I'll check the charging under max load and post results latter
I would've liked to check actual current but afraid of frying the multimeter :icon_razz:
Your battery is an additional source of power in the system. If you add too much load, you can start drawing power from the battery instead of sending power to it. It is likely that if you're running a load higher than what the charging system can handle on a sustained basis, your bike will eat batteries. You probably don't notice because the max condition doesn't happen often ie. you're brights aren't on that much...
Checked charging under full load and with no load and for a long time now I suspected the R/R of not doing a good job ,
the results are :
No load - 12.5V and the voltage rises actually at idle to 13V at times :confused:
Full load ( with dual high beams,turn signals,brakes on,horn even ) - 12.7V max ,again the voltage increases at idle sometimes then drops to 12.4V
Alternator coils provide in excess of 111VAC at 5000rpm so they're OK
Just replaced friends R/R unit on his ER5 ,think I'll need to source one for me as well , and I'm ditching the fairings and duals for
SV650 single reflector as they're crap at night anyway
Quote from: Affschnozel on April 04, 2009, 04:15:49 AM
Checked charging under full load and with no load and for a long time now I suspected the R/R of not doing a good job ,
the results are :
No load - 12.5V and the voltage rises actually at idle to 13V at times :confused:
Full load ( with dual high beams,turn signals,brakes on,horn even ) - 12.7V max ,again the voltage increases at idle sometimes then drops to 12.4V
The fact the figures are low and fluctuating makes me think your battery might not be fully charged and consequently drawing power off the system...... I would take it off the bike, fully charge it then do the test again and see if the figures are closer to what the book says.
Only expensive and regularly calibrated voltmeters are accurate to arround 0.5 volt, take a set of readings on a different one if you can and compare them. It could just be that your meter is reading low.
Yes I'm going to take multimeter(i have two) with me on the bike and check further , the battery btw bought new ,never held 12.6V at full charge
only 12.5V after one day (off the bike) and ever since I got multimeter never seen higher than 14V on it ,friends ER5 at idle gives more than 14V
I cleaned and checked all connectors,everything is clean , next thing I'll do is get another R/R and test with it,good idea to buy hydrometer as well
Hang on a second. 12.6 volts is a chemical reality. A fully-charged lead-acid battery in good condition will measure 2.1 volts/cell x 6 cells = 12.6 volts, whether it's for a car, or a bike, or a lawn tractor.
Even a cheap digital multimeter can measure 0.1 volts in a 20-volt range, so if it's measuring 12.5 instead of 12.6, the battery doesn't have any dead cells, and it's most likely still good, but its specific gravity isn't quite high enough, it's not quite fully charged, or it's beginning to go downhill.
B4 going out and buying a R/R why not run some definitive tests. It's real ez on the GS and all you need is a meter with diode mode.(Maybe another way to check without diode mode?? :dunno_white:)
Pull off the 2 sets of connectors on r/s of bike and run tests on ones going to the regulator. Connect one meter lead to one of the terminals on the 2 prong side and touch the other meter lead to each one of the other terminals on the 3 prong side. You should either see O.L (or) .5v. ---record your readings. Now working with the same terminal on the 2 prong side, swap leads and re-run same test (So you're running 6 test per terminal from the 2 prong side).
After your done with the 1st terminal, then repeat the process on the 2nd one.
A good diode should read .5v in one direction and O.L in the other. Hope this makes sense.
Unless the bike has a problem with charging the battery or the battery itself is rapidly discharging while in circuit, there is no reason to suspect the reg/rect is faulty :dunno_black:
Consider also that static tests with a multimeter that has 3v and negligable current behind it should never be relied on 100%. The component may behave totaly differently in operation on 12v and when its passing 10A or so.
Quote from: sledge on April 04, 2009, 08:22:13 AM
Unless the bike has a problem with charging the battery or the battery itself is rapidly discharging while in circuit, there is no reason to suspect the reg/rect is faulty :dunno_black:
Consider also that static tests with a multimeter that has 3v and negligable current behind it should never be relied on 100%. The component may behave totaly differently in operation on 12v and when its passing 10A or so.
HI Sledge,
Assuming all 3 alternator coils are putting out roughly 110vAC and he's only seeing a below spec. output of 12.5-13v at the battery, isn't is safe to assume that checking the reg./rec is a good idea.
Well.....
From whats been written I have assumed he has done the test and taken the readings out of curiosity and not because there is a problem. OK they dont tie up with those quoted in the test procedure which confuses things all the more but that could be down to a partially discharged battery when he took them or the fact his meter may be reading incorrectly. He hasnt actually said he has a charging problem so at this stage I dont see a reason to suspect the reg/rect.
The sums say the stock bike has some spare capacity but the OP has added extra lights and calculated his needs 240w max....... if you are asking me to take a guess I would say he is right on the limit of what the bikes system can cope with and at the same time keep the battery charged :dunno_black:
WOW... boy did i stur up a hornets nest on this one.... you guys are great. I'll have to run some tests on my '96 and see what i get. I dont have any issues with the regulator or generator system i was just wondering if i could use the access power that is generated during 5k plus rpms by using a second/parallel regulator for extra lights, heated gear and what-not, and not affect or drain the battery. hell i even thought about putting in a larger battery which opens up another can of worms. again you guys are great, thanks
Quote from: airnuts on April 04, 2009, 09:29:04 AM
WOW... boy did i stur up a hornets nest on this one....
Hornets nest?? Nahhhh....we are just bouncing a few ideas and observations around.
I guess at 12.6V it gets some charge and I once in a while use charger if bike seats unused (alarm draws some current)
Before buying new R/R ,I'll get another just to test charging as it is the last step in troubleshooting it
The multimeter is fine I checked my friends ER5 with it and it gave good results, I also have this beauty:
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/117/293668287_f450d334f3.jpg)
It's heavy duty ! :D
And because you got me babbling :icon_lol: here's a picture of the offenders:
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc280/Affschnozel/GsEr.jpg)
WHOWA......an AVO8,..........not seen one of them since I left University 2* odd years ago. Thats a collectors item now.
Quote from: sledge on April 04, 2009, 09:41:00 AM
Quote from: airnuts on April 04, 2009, 09:29:04 AM
WOW... boy did i stur up a hornets nest on this one....
Hornets nest?? Nahhhh....we are just bouncing a few ideas and observations around.
No prob here. Maybe learn a thing or two.
By the way, just installed my Hella Angel Eyes and at idle getting 13-13.5v with 1 bulb lit. It'll drop about .5 to almost 1v with both on. At 5k RPM getting about 14.5v. Something is up with your electricals.
Just found this link if you decide to run some tests.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38480.0
Quote from: sledge on April 03, 2009, 12:05:05 PM
This has always been a big question for me......... The max output of the alternator is a grey area, unlike some bikes I have owned I have never been able to find a quoted figure for it in any manual. Given its a 12v system Ohms law says that anymore than 240w drawn off it would allow more than 20A to flow which would cause the fuse the blow. The question is........does the alternator actually have the capacity to deliver 240w and the fuse is there to protect it from overloading and maybe burning out or does the alternator run out of steam before this without damaging itself?
Anyone, anyone?
Sledge, the alternator output connects to the rectifier and the regulator pulls as much power from the rectifier as is needed at any particular moment, so the alternator output doesn't see the fuse, not directly. It can't, as it's putting out AC and has to be rectified first, but I just explained that and now I'm starting to talk in circles!
I think your basic assumption that the alternator is about 240 watts max output is correct. I read 190 somewhere but I'll be damned if I can remember where. Maybe that was maximum load of the bike with everything on. I'm getting old and senile.
Now to get back to the question at hand, how to get more electrical output from the GS? I don't know if one is available, but I think the best and most practical way to do it would be to find a rotor with stronger rare-earth magnets. More field = more output. I don't know what type of magnets are in my GS's rotor. I do know that magnet technology has improved during the time the GS has been in manufacture, so it's possible that new aftermarket rotors with stronger-than-stock magnets are available.
Heat, vibration, and time also conspire to weaken magnets, so it's logical that an alternator's output would decline some with use and age. In this case a new rotor would restore the alternator to full output.
you could also rewire the stator for higher output......if there is room
Sorry to hijack the post again :embarrassed: it's kinda on the topic as I've got a second regulator :tongue2:
unit from ER5 and put it on my bike to test it with and the bastard charges at 16.4V and more with load ,
so that one is also toast and it overcharges , at least it reassured me that the fault is in my R/R 100%
if you need more output for extras
not mine....
it's on e-bay
SUZUKI GS500E STATOR 89-96 GS 500 E
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*RMG010
OEM Part Number(s): 31401-47030, 31401-47020
This heavy duty stator can be used as a higher output replacement for the OE stator. Output is about 20% more than the OE stator provides. This new stator is built with the highest grade lamination materials and the copper windings are triple insulated for maximum reliability. To ease installation we supply it with extra connectors and wire sleeving. It is a very cost-effective replacement unit for when the OE stator failed, and it comes with a full one year warranty.
Any Questions? rmstator@rmstator.com