I've tried everything i know to do and she still wont run right. so far this is what I've done. new battery, new ngk plugs, cleaned the carbs 3 times, striped the wiring harness and solder all the brass connectors, cleaned and or replaced any bad connectors, changed one of the pick-up coils.
it is not getting any spark to the passenger side cylinder but is getting a big fat blue spark on the driver side (and yes i know it's not a car but it's just for reference) it will run as long as you hold down the start button (I'm thinking i need a Buddha carb job) any help greatly appreciated i"m at a loss thanks, :technical: :technical:
James
Hi James,
Ok, so the right side gets no spark? How are you testing it? Check the wires going to the coil with a voltmeter. Turn key ON, should see at least 12volts to each of the terminals. If you don't have a meter try a test light to at least see if it's getting any juice.
i checked it and it's getting about 8.4 volts, i checked the wiring harness and it's only getting about .06 ohm's between the coils and the plug in the rear of the bike (the one it said to check on the form) I'm starting to think that the ignition control module may be going out,
(http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu100/jetboy287/IMG00236.jpg)
are you saying that you check each one? like the frame of the bike and one terminals? like one at a time?
I'm not an expert but here's how I understand it.
Let's work backwards. Secondary, Primary, and Trigger.
2ndary: The spark plug/spark plug wire & cap are part of the secondary ignition circuit. If you're not getting spark move back up the chain of command to the primary.
Primary side: Terminals on top of coil (orange/white), lower connector on ignition coil (black/yellow or white)should get approx 12v with key on and engine off. If ur not getting near 12v either your battery isn't full charged or you have a poor connection somewhere. Make sure battery is fully charged b4 getting started.
-KEY OFF:Check resistance btwn both terminals on coil. Spec. 3-6 ohms
-KEY OFF:Check resistance btwn lower connector and spark plug cap Spec. 18-30k ohms
-KEY ON:Touch tip of test light to lower connector and crank engine over. Light should flash on/off signifying the trigger is working.
Trigger: Ignition rotor/pulse generator coils/ ignition module.
Pop off the ignition rotor cover and start testing from there to the ignition module.
The experts will chime in I'm sure.
thank you bud I'll have to mess with it tomorrow to test that stuff but you gave me something to do anyway i was unsure about the plug boot one, and I'll do my best to get that bolt mailed out to you tomorrow
all right i tried everything you said to i even swap the coils from right to left all the voltage was good, and the ohm's was @ 18.9 so i think that they are okay any one know what else it could be? I'm really at a loss, could it be the pick up coils? whitch one is used for the right side? the front or back one?
oh and the way i tested it was by pulling out the plug and grounding it looking for a spark it worked on the other side. sorry i missed that last time
Ok, so everything checked out ok? Does it still not get spark on the right side?
no it still wont spark on that side :sad: even though all that stuff is working. i really don't understand. what should the ohms for the ignition control mod be? or where can i look them up?
oh and ps ATLRIDER i sent that pinch bolt yesterday so you should have it by this weekend :thumb:
Atlrider gave expert advice even if he doesn't realize it.
It sounds to me like the problem is in your hand, the spark plug. I know it sounds ridiculously simple but it would perfectly explain your symptom and why you can't find anything else wrong with the ignition system. Just because a plug looks good doesn't mean it is. The insulator can crack where you can't see it and it can allow the spark to reach ground without reaching the electrode.
okay I'll go buy another new plug tomorrow when i get off work and try that. but I'm thinking i may need to try cleaning the carbs again thanks guys i really appreciate the help :bowdown:
could it be the crank trigger? is that a possibility? i was reading that you cant check them to see if they are bad. which one works the right side?
Quote from: bill14224 on April 15, 2009, 05:29:13 AM
Atlrider gave expert advice even if he doesn't realize it.
Thnx, but definetely not an expert.
James,
I hurt my back and have been out of it. Haven't really been checking this thread. Anyway, having any luck? Bill recomended spark plugs. Let us know after you change them. If it doesn't change anything and ur sure the ignition isn't working, can try some other stuff.
I'm gonna change the plugs tonight but i may not get to try it till Sunday or later, one of the retired fire chiefs where i work passed away yesterday so I'm going to the viewing Sunday and the funeral Monday so pray for his family :cry:
got the new plug's still not getting fire whats next?
are you getting power to your right side coil?
Have you tried pulling the plug on the right side? Leave it attaced to the coil and place it near one of the engine fins while trying to start the motor. If your not getting a spark then I would definetly change the plugs and try the bike then.
If you tried everything and they checked out ok, you should be getting spark. Did you try the test light on the coil terminal to see if it flashes on/off while cranking the engine? If it's flashing no need to check the trigger. In case it isn't flashing here's how Haynes manual says to check it.
Disconnect the 3 terminal connector from the ignition module on the left side of the bike, near battery. Check the wires that have the female connectors, not the prongs. You have a brown, black/blue, green wires. Set meter to ohms. Touch one meter lead to brown and the other to black/blue and record the reading. Then touch one meter lead from black/blue to green and record the reading. The spec. should be btwn 250-420 ohms.
One other thing you can try is to unscrew the cap that goes over the spark plug and trim approx 1/4 inch from the wire. This will expose a fresh piece and may give better spark.
Quote from: ATLRIDER on April 20, 2009, 05:45:53 PM
If you tried everything and they checked out ok, you should be getting spark. Did you try the test light on the coil terminal to see if it flashes on/off while cranking the engine? If it's flashing no need to check the trigger. In case it isn't flashing here's how Haynes manual says to check it.
Disconnect the 3 terminal connector from the ignition module on the left side of the bike, near battery. Check the wires that have the female connectors, not the prongs. You have a brown, black/blue, green wires. Set meter to ohms. Touch one meter lead to brown and the other to black/blue and record the reading. Then touch one meter lead from black/blue to green and record the reading. The spec. should be btwn 250-420 ohms.
One other thing you can try is to unscrew the cap that goes over the spark plug and trim approx 1/4 inch from the wire. This will expose a fresh piece and may give better spark.
Edit: Almost forgot. Disconnect (-) battery lead.
I'll have to get a test light i cant find mine, but i"ll try the other things in the meantime, and let ya'll know and thanks for all the input
James
yeah I'm getting power to the coils, i tried pulling the plugs and turning it over and still no spark i also got two new set's of plugs and still no good but I'm gonna try the other stuff and let y'all know as soon as i do i bought a used icm off flea-bay for .99 + shipping so I'll swap that out when i get it in the mail as well
so i checked the omh's and they are 349 and 352 does that mean they are okay? and for that matter what did that test? was that the pick-up coils? but i have yet to buy a check light i used my vom and the voltage fluctuated between 8 something and 13 something is that okay or do i need to still get a check light? and i haven't tried to trim the plug wire yet i forgot about that part I'll have to do that tomorrow I'll report back as soon as i know something.
James
so i got it to run the other day but it's still not firing on the (r) side which coil runs the right side? i think that may be my problem. anyone know? i put on the new icm and the carbs i got from D-Day (which are sweet by the way) and she started right up but sounds like a sick Harley but i was able to get it to idle bad but it does but it's still not firing i pulled the (R) side plug boot while it was running and it didn't change anything. i trimmed the wire and no luck that didn't help ether so it has to be the pick up coils right? thats the only thing left that i can think of ? Help :technical:
bump
Quote from: jetboy287 on April 23, 2009, 12:21:23 PM
so i checked the omh's and they are 349 and 352 does that mean they are okay? and for that matter what did that test? was that the pick-up coils? but i have yet to buy a check light i used my vom and the voltage fluctuated between 8 something and 13 something is that okay or do i need to still get a check light? and i haven't tried to trim the plug wire yet i forgot about that part I'll have to do that tomorrow I'll report back as soon as i know something.
James
Not exactly sure but by the Hayne's manual ur within spec and ur getting continuity to the pulse coils. I'm not sure where to steer you. Did you try testing the coil with the test light? This step alone may be enough to bypass the trigger system. We may be chasing a non-existent problem and may need to move elsewhere. Make sure your battery is fully charged and let us know exactly the voltage ur getting at both terminals for each of the 2 coils w/key on and engine off.
Since you swapped carbs out and the engine can run on one cylinder, try running engine with airbox off and check to see if fuel is coming up through the needle jet with mid to full throttle. Does the right cylinder fire at all at full throttle? Could even be that throttle butterflies aren't properly synced. B4 going down this road let's confirm the electrical tests above.
okay so i played with it some more the other night and i realized that the plug coming from the icm the female part that is part of the main wiring harness had some rust on it, i went to the local auto part store and got some blade type connectors, i cut and striped the wires and realized that there was corrosion on the brown wire on both sides male and female, so i cleaned them as best as i could and i got a spark on the (R) side :woohoo: , at that point it was to late to try it, but what i want to know it what is the best thing to use to clean the corrosion of the wires? I've sprayed them with cleaner but when i tried to solder it i couldn't get it to stick and soke in no matter how hot i got it, should i just cut the wire back till it's clean and scab a new piece in? will that hurt it ?
yeah jet i would just cut it back at a good spot and get rid of the bad altogether. then solder in your new peice to get you where you need to go. glad to hear your getting closer to riding. :thumb:
hey josh how the he11 are ya? yeah i just wish it would run I'm starting to get tired of it sitting in the dinning room and the new gf thinks I'm crazy as hell :confused:
Im good moved on to another project build with lots of pics for everyone to look at. just waiting to see your title change to "Took her for a ride to day and it was great" did you ge3t your wires soldered together to give it a shot yet?
yeah i did and i think it's still messed up the lower black and yellow wire seems to lose power when i try to crank it that is why i think it's a connection problem it has voltage untill you try to crank it and then it loses power for about 2 sec then it comes back so i may need to splice in a new wire. and yeah i saw you're new bike what kind is it?
jet bud it sounds to me like you need to check ground wires. almost sounds like that sides arcing out on a bad grond connection somewhere.
yup thats what I've been thinking too but I'll have to weight till tomorrow to find out i don't get off work till 0800, where did you move to? same state?
oh no i didnt move living locations. was just saying that im on to the next build. Tomorrow ill take some pics of the wiring mess im into with both hands and a foot. its a mess but im hoping to have it wrapped up tomorrow but that depends on how my eyes work with my hands and brain. prolly take 1/2 the day and a tin of chew before im making any sence to myself.....lol....let me know what you find on your end and ill post up some more pics of my wiring mess in my thread tomorrow morning. good luck bud
you too buddy have a good one and good luck :thumb:
so i went home and all my grounds are good i redid the wire that went bad and cleaned my carbs, it's still not firing on the (r) side but it will idle soothe, I'm about 100% sure that it's running rich, i bought the carb from D-Day and the k&n lb with it, he advised me that it has a jet kit on it already so i may be running really rich, when you try to give it any gas it starts running vary bad and trys to die, but i'm gonna mess with it some more the jets in it are 130 mains and 37.5 there was two washers on the needles and i had to take one off to get it to idle at all should i take the other ones off? and it didn't really seem to matter how many turns in or out it was it still ran the same :dunno_white:
So I've fixed the not firing problem it was the three prong plug that connects to the icm :woohoo:, but it's still not running right I'm having some sort of fuel issue now but I'm not really sure how to describe it, it sounds just like this one http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=47945.0;topicseen (ftp://http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=47945.0;topicseen) but I'm not having the leak he is and my bike wont do anything when i try to give it any gas whats the next thing to try?
sorry i haven't had time to mess with it cuz i totled my mustang friday night some dumb ass locked up his car in front of me so i hit em
how do i adjust the floats? do i need to bend that little brass tab? or is there some other way that i don't know about i checked mine and they seem to be about 1/16 of an inch high
yes you bend the brass tab that your needle clips around. when i set mine i do it by eye. hold the carb how its mounted on the bike then push the float up until it closes the needle. just try to think of them floating in gas as you do it so you get the thought in your mind as to how high the gas level will be when they are actually filling up :thumb:
Quote from: joshr08 on May 18, 2009, 11:41:19 AM
yes you bend the brass tab that your needle clips around. when i set mine i do it by eye. hold the carb how its mounted on the bike then push the float up until it closes the needle. just try to think of them floating in gas as you do it so you get the thought in your mind as to how high the gas level will be when they are actually filling up :thumb:
Its actually so close to how I do it. You can use a small cup of gasoline to float the floats in. It also help you visualise how they float - hold them by the same end that that O ring is on.
Cool.
Buddha.
ah ok i was doing it so wrong thanks guys i really appreciate it i'll try that tomorrow when i get home i really think it's running really rich and i cant seem to figure out why but i think it's the floats
Buddha, how does your procedure differ? I think this is one of the worst described procedures in my clymers. That or the fact that they didn't list the torque setting for the swing arm pivot bolt! lol
Nick
OK so I've got the float height right but it's still not running and i looked at the plugs and they are covered in black carbon build up, so does that mean it's running to rich? the carb's i have on it have up graded jet's and needles it's got the needles that you can change the height with a little c-clip i have a lunch box air filter and my ex is a modified straight flow (eg the whole end was removed by the PO) so what should my jets be and what should i set the needles at?
sounds like the dyno jet kit to me either buddha or ineedanap can prolly tell you what your jetting numbers should be to lean you out. i think tho if you move the c clip up it will lower your main needle and that should lean you out a little bit if im not mistaken. if i am please let me know so i know better the next time.
yup thats what D-Day said it was it's just running way to rich buddha what should it be set at?