I took my cylinders to a shop today and the guy had measured the cylinder to piston clearance in front of me. It was aboe maximum, which means that I can't simply put new rings of the original size and call it good.
I have to bore the cylinders to the next size. Is that what most people here do - have a shop bore 0.5mm (~$100) and spend $160 on the new piston/ring set? I understand that if in the future there will be a need to replace the rings, they can't be purchased separately and another $160 purchase of the piston/rings would have to be made.
Alternatively, it was mentioned to me that the shop can send my cylinders to some guy who will press out old sleeves and install new sleeves that will be in tolerance with the original size pistons/rings. I believe they quoted something in the order of $150 for that. Sounds like that may be a better alternative, no?
Any thoughts, advice - vey appreciated,
Jenya
I'd buy a second hand engine from someone on gstwins instead. Experiment on the old engine later if you really want to. Once it's open.... I know how stuff goes for me ;)
What did he say about the scratched wall?
He said that it definitelly would require a bore to get rid off.
how many miles did you get out of the first set of pistons?
if you bore and new 0.5mm pistons/rings.....250ish
if you re-sleeve and stock rings......230 ish
also per the factory service manual....there are 2 OS pistons available....+0.5mm and +1.0mm
weather the dealer has part # or not...i do not know
both plus top end gaskets
plus a head freshen up
it's a 6....half dozen thing
what ever you want to do
easier to get bigger pistons than re-sleeve
do you plan on keeping the bike for another 30k+ miles?
Yeah, I say just bore it. The chances are low you'll ride the bike long enough to kill a second set of rings, unless you really really flog it all the time on the track or something like that. My bike is near 90,000 miles with the original rings. If I were you, I wouldn't worry about what is going to happen to the bike 40,000 to 100,000 miles down the road. At the rate most people seem to ride their GS, chances are that will be 15 to 20 years from now, at which point you might have trouble getting rings or pistons for the bike, regardless of size. Heck, you might even have trouble getting gas for it...
I guess this is a general question on the the sanity of doing this project at all.
It appears that it will cost me somewhere on the order of $600 to complete the top end rebuild.
Here is the itemized list of expenses:
Bore the cylinders: $85
New pistons/rings: $150
Service the head at a head shop(replace the exhaust guides, exhaust valves and do the three angle job): $150
New exhaust valves: $80
Plust gaskets, new exhaust guides ( haven't looked at the price yet), new valve stem seals, etc.
So the obvious question - is it crazy putting that much money for a top end rebuild into a bike as inexpensive as our GSs are?
Almost feels like it will end up costing as much as a whole used engine would. Of course, a used engine would come with its own set of unknown problems that may require putting money into later on.
Just curious what you all think,
Jenya
or you could hone the cylinders/fresh rings and clean up the head
for about 200-250
or buy another engine......
Well,
I've decided to to it right and have everyting fixed to a perfection. Trying to source the parts now.
One of the on-line site seems to have a better pricing for parts+shipping than bikebandit (where I usually shop for my motorcycle needs).
It is called Babbitt's. I need to call them about the head gasket though. It isn't listed online for some reason.
Anybody dealth with them or can recommend a better place to buy Suzuki OEM parts?
Also, do I need new wrist pins for the new piston sets or can I reuse the ones I already have.
Can I reuse the wrist pin circlips or should I not be so cheap and buy a set of four new circlips?
Jenya
check the tollerance on the wrist pins
REPLACE THE C-CLIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Jenya on April 25, 2009, 09:19:18 PM
Well,
I've decided to to it right and have everyting fixed to a perfection. Trying to source the parts now.
One of the on-line site seems to have a better pricing for parts+shipping than bikebandit (where I usually shop for my motorcycle needs).
It is called Babbitt's. I need to call them about the head gasket though. It isn't listed online for some reason.
Anybody dealth with them or can recommend a better place to buy Suzuki OEM parts?
Also, do I need new wrist pins for the new piston sets or can I reuse the ones I already have.
Can I reuse the wrist pin circlips or should I not be so cheap and buy a set of four new circlips?
Jenya
oh my. if it were november, i'd say ya go ahead with a rebuild. this is prime riding weather.... depending on location. i'd slap a non-assploded engine in it... that's just me.
good luck with the rebuild !
Jenya,
I'd rebuild your current engine, as you're planning to do.
Then, you have a known quantity, which will be brand-new. :D
Quote
oh my. if it were november, i'd say ya go ahead with a rebuild. this is prime riding weather.... depending on location. i'd slap a non-assploded engine in it... that's just me.
good luck with the rebuild !
The time of the year actually doesn't have much weight for me at this point.
I have had a recent incident of a sever atrial fibrillation caused by the untreated hyperactive thyroid. Just for the record, that kind of stuff can happen at any age - I am 38. Because of the sever and prolonged atrial fibrillation, the cardiologist put me on the blood thinners medication that I will be taking for another two weeks.
It would be un-wise for me to ride a motorcycle while on the blood thinners as even a very mild accident during which my helmeted head could hit a pavement, might lead to a prolonged internal head bleeding.
As you you can see, for me this is as good as a Winter where I take it easy and tinker with my bike.
Jenya
Just to make sure I order the right thing for boring the cylinderes to the next size.
On the diagram:
http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/suzuki-motorcycle-gs500ew-1993-crankshaft/o/m6058sch235313
Part 17-1?
Quote from: Jenya on April 24, 2009, 05:00:19 PM
Service the head at a head shop(replace the exhaust guides, exhaust valves and do the three angle job): $150
New exhaust valves: $80
I know of a place that will do the head for 100.
The valves, all 4 of em should cost ya just about 80 bones from kibblewhite.
Yea I know suzuki wants 40 bucks for 1 exhaust valve ... but those are crap ... and more $$ ... I'd do kibblewhite.
Cool.
Buddha.
Too bad you haven't told me that yesterday. It is too late now. I already had placed the order this morning from the bikebandit.
-----------------------
Actually, I just called kibblewhite. They don't sell directly to customers and referred me to the nearest dealer to me.
He said that gs500 kibblewhite valves are $57.82/each.
It used to be 24 bucks each, and I spoke to kibble white who were very willing 2 years ao to see the valves in my savage and match up to some BS they had lying about and send me so I can machine it right.
They also were fine doing that with the GR motor ~1 year ago.
Cool.
Buddha.
Next week I will be taking my cylinders and the new 0.5 oversize pistons to a machine shop or a Suzuki dealership to have the cylinders bored.
Currently the cylinders are 1.6 thousandths of an inch over the specified range in the Clymer manual. The manual lists that the piston-to-cylinder clearance should be 0.0020-0.0024 of an inch. I have measured the distance to be somewhere around 0.0040 of an inch.
I wonder whether it is reasonable to request that a machinist bores the cylinders to exactly 0.0020 of an inch piston-to-cylinder clearance. Obviously, I'd like to get the most miles out of this work, so I would want to start at the tightest possible range. It seems that if they give me the cylinders that are bored to the 0.0024 of an inch clearance, I will be at the end limit of the allowed range. I sure hope they won't give me cylinders that are outside of the 0.0020-0.0024 range, or I'll be back to where I started.
The essense of the question is whether it is unresonable to request a .4 of a thousandths of an inch precision for a bore job?
Also, I have no clue what the bore machine looks like, but wonder if I could buy a $20 honing device at the local autoparts store, put it into my drill press and keep honning the cylinders until I get the exact desired piston-to-cylinder clearance? Or would I completely mess up my cyliners if I attempt to bore them in such a way?
Just want to make sure that I collect as much information as possible before sending my cylinders under a knife,
Jenya
Quote from: Jenya on May 09, 2009, 03:11:34 PM
...
The essense of the question is whether it is unresonable to request a .4 of a thousandths of an inch precision for a bore job?
...
If a shop cannot keep a tolerance closer that that, they do not need to do the work.
The guy that does my work maintains .0005 to no more that .001 tolerance fit on cylinder bores.
On some of race motors I will have .0025 clearance due to the extra heat.
He does not charge enough, in my opinion, but does charge by time. I have paid as little as $20 for a fitting hone and up to $80 for a 5mm over bore.
The only thing I have used those 3-stone hones is the deglaze & cross hatch the cylinder before fitting new rings.
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On some of race motors I will have .0025 clearance due to the extra heat.
Thansk for the answer, I can't say I fully understood it thought. I guess, I'll try to ask differently: Can I specify to a machinist that I want exactly 0.0020 piston-to-cylinder clearance.
That I would rather not to end up with 0.0024 or anything larger than that?
When doing a bore, what is more important: the piston-to-cylinder clearance or the diameter of the cylinder bore? Clearely if one is larger so will be the other, but I am not sure which one is used to determine to how far to bore.
Is it given that if the piston-to-cylinder clearance range maintained within the proper 0.0020-0.0024" range, the bore diameter will be within the proper range as well automatically, which according to Clymer: 2.9134-2.9140". Should the bore diameter be checked during the bore process along with piston-to-cylinder clearance?
Jenya
You have to have a tolerance, otherwise you will not want to pay for a 0 tolerance.
The piston to cylinder clearance is the important part. Pistons are not exatly the same diameter, especially used. They will oblong with use. Too much oblong and the piston should be replaced.
The bore required is determined by measuring the piston.