Ok, I just ordered a luncbox filter and got in touch with buddha for the jets. Now, this is the first time I'm attempting anything like this and I've read the poor man's rejetting process a bunch of times and I realize that's really for a pre-2004 GS500. Question is, for those who have rejetted their GS500F, can you give me any tips for the little details that will make my install as smooth as possible? Besides a screwdriver and some sockets and ratches, is there anything like screws and hoses I should purchase and have handy just in case. I hate being in the middle of an install and then having to run off to get tools or other parts I need. Also, did you have to remove your fairings to do this? Basically, any wisdom you can impart would be great!
Thanks,
Steve
you need vicegrips because the brass screws will strip very easily, and you can use vice grips to get em off with ease. Um, you will also probably need a drill, because you have to drill out this cap thingy that's in the way of the air screws.
you do not need to take the fairing off. just the seat - under the seat there are the tank bolts.
+1 for the vice grips to get the crappy screws off that hold the carbs together. Make sure you get replacement screws (most replace with hex head screws) for both the top and bottom of the carbs.
Most replace them with allen heads, hex is a bad choice for that location. And the brass screws are not brass, they are yellow colored steel. And yes they still strip and they still are made of cheese.
Cool.
Buddha.
Meh. Hex socket. You happy? :laugh:
Thanks, can you let me know what size screws I'll need so i can pick them up in advance.
It is included in the jet pack I am sending you kiddo ... sheesh ... you'd think I am some sorta random dude on a website ...
I am a random dude on the GSTwin site ... O0
Cool.
Buddha.
I thought the carbs were the same from '01 and up :dunno_white: The '04 just had a slightly larger main jet in stock form right?
Well FWIW, what jet sizes are you going to try? I'm about to order some for my '02, just doing lunchbox like you. I think I'm going to try 20 pilot, 65 mid (no washers), 140 main.
And Budda/random dude.... I thought you didn't have a kit for this setup? What gives? :icon_neutral:
Use the right size screw drivers to remove and install the jets, dont leave any wiggle room or they will strip, Next, Definately get an impact screw driver and someone to help you hold the carbs while you whack away at them, that way you dont inadvertantly break off a tab, screw boss, or break a bowl or something else. You may have to use a set of vise grips to remove a few of them but cant get them all with the grips, and definately use the allen screws that come with the pack. Good Luck.
Thanks for all the info. I'm sure i'm just overthinking things. I always seem to find myself getting stuck with installs because of one screw or one bolt and last weekend, my friend and I were working on his car and what was supposed to be a 4 hour job took over 8 hours because we kept on having to go back to the store to get additional things that got foobared :( So for this install, I want to make sure I'm not missing anything before I get started :D This is definitely a very fun bike to ride and work on.
Quote from: ecpreston on June 09, 2009, 01:40:53 PM
And Budda/random dude.... I thought you didn't have a kit for this setup? What gives? :icon_neutral:
He was buying the one with pipe ... 147.5 main ... OK 140 main - my friend tripleb tried it, check with him and he can hook you up ... oops wait, that is old GS ... sorry ...
OK you want 140 mains - lemme ask if the local clowns have it sitting round.
Cool.
Buddha.
I didn't need an impact to remove the jets, just a larger slotted driver and keep pressure on it.
I've never seen anyone give tips on adjusting the air/fuel screw except do it in half turn increments. I use a slotted bit from a power screw driver that's around 2 inches long, think it has 6 sides. Put a piece of tape on one of the sides so you can keep track of how many turns out or in that you do. This was the only way I could make the adjustments and keep track of how many turns I've made with the carbs on the bike, there's almost no room to get even a stubby driver in there.
Oh right, that was the other thing I wanted to ask. The instruction say to turn the screw to adjust the air/fuel. Is there a screw for each carb? If so, are you supposed to adjust them one at a time or do you turn both of them an equal amount at the same time?
Asym an impact screwdriver is a fat screwdriver that you smack with a hammer, and its used to break tight screws loose. As in the ones holding the bowls on, not the actual jets.... Ding frys are done....
Quote from: steguis on June 09, 2009, 07:46:50 PM
Oh right, that was the other thing I wanted to ask. The instruction say to turn the screw to adjust the air/fuel. Is there a screw for each carb? If so, are you supposed to adjust them one at a time or do you turn both of them an equal amount at the same time?
Yes air mix screw is 1 per carb, there is an Idiotic brass cap on it that needs to be drilled out first.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on June 09, 2009, 05:57:33 PMHe was buying the one with pipe ... 147.5 main
ah ok :thumb:
it's ok, I'll probably order them up and try to find someone on here to take the extras if it works out well for that setup. Will PM tripleb too, thanks.
Thanks. I'll try to take pics of every part of the install and maybe do a write up.
Thanks for the tutorial on what a impact driver is. I didn't need a second person to help remove a screw or change a light bulb. There's also an impact driver in the garage that I haven't had to use in years.
One more question. In the rejetting tutorial he drains the carbs through the drain nipple. What kind of hose do I need to get for this? I don't have random hoses sitting in my garage I can use.
You can put a small cup right under the carb, like the cap of a WD40 can and drain into that.
Cool.
Buddha.
ok, i've started this project. The carbs are out of the bike and I'm about to work on them. In the meantime, there's a few differences on the 07 that I didn't see on the poorman's guide.
1) The airbox has a total of 3 hoses going to it. 1 is the drain, the other goes to the crank case and one other larger hose that goes to this metal thing that goes to the frame. What is this? It obviously can't go into the lunchbox filter so what am I supposed to do with this? This hose went into the same side of the airbox as where the drain was.
2) There's some electrical plugs hooked into the side of the right side carb that isn't mentioned. What are those for?
3) Argh...I stripped the bowl drain screw on the right carb. Do I have to fix it now or can I replace it later?
where in Queens are you exactly?
I might be able to come over so you can take a look at how I routed the hoses and other things :thumb:
don't put your address in here - PM me if you wish
cheers
KML
Thanks for the offer but I think I'm done. What a clusta-fawk of an install. I was able to use the vice-grip method to get rid of every screw except one for each carb bowl and one for each cap....argh. I was eventually able to get the last screw out on both carbs holding the bowl in by using the dremmel method (dremmel a straight line through the middle so I could get a nice big flat head in there) and replacing the jets was pretty straightforward. I put everything back together using the allen screws buddah provided. Now, I got 147.5 mains, 20 pilots and 65 mids as well as 4 washers. I couldnt' put the washers in since I couldn't get the screws off the caps. How will this affect me? I remember buddah gave me two options, one with just mains, pilots, washers and screws and the other for a bit more money included the mids. I opted to get the mids. If I remember correctly, upping the mids is the same as adding washers so I should be ok right?
Anyway, I put the bike back together, remember to put the petcock back on under the tank, set it to pri for about 3 seconds and started her up. She did without hesitation. Unfortunately, I couldnt' get to adjusting the screws at idle since it was 11:30pm and my neighbors would've probably killed me if I had tried even warming the bike up at this time during the week. I'll see if I can adjust the screws tomorrow or friday and take her out for a spin. I guess I have a few questions:
1) Was it ok for me to leave out the washers?
2) When I put in the new jets, i didn't count how many turns and so one I made when I put them in, how will I know they're both set to the same "value" to start with?
3) Where are the pilor air screws? I know it's under the carb but which hole is it in relation to the drain screw? Also, I just use the tip from a flat head screwdriver correct?
Also for reference, the extra hose on the 07 (and probably the 04+) airbox goes to the PAIR system. There's also a smaller hose going to this system and I couldn't find where it's supposed to connect to. According to the Haynes manual, it's supposed to get to right hand carb but where? Is it a problem if I just leave it disconnected?
Ah crap, after some more reading, it sounds like I have to drill out a cap that covers the screw? Which means removing the carb again...ugh.
yup, the 3 turns out relates NOT to the jets but to the air/fuel mixture screw that is under that brass cap.
now since you know the entire process, it will be much quicker to remove the carbs than the first time :thumb:
good luck
Quote from: kml.krk on June 17, 2009, 11:16:13 PM
yup, the 3 turns out relates NOT to the jets but to the air/fuel mixture screw that is under that brass cap.
now since you know the entire process, it will be much quicker to remove the carbs than the first time :thumb:
good luck
Ugh, ok...I guesss I'll have to remove it again. You're right, I can probably remove it in 30 or so minutes now. It's really the fuel hoses under the tank that really pisses me off. I went riding on Wednesday night and filled up so my tank has a little over 4 gallons left in it.
Quote from: steguis on June 17, 2009, 10:13:35 PM
Ah crap, after some more reading, it sounds like I have to drill out a cap that covers the screw? Which means removing the carb again...ugh.
I don't know at what point they changed, but my 08 didn't have to drill out, it's simply acccessible as standard (there is no cap). You may be in luck with an 07 and not have to drill them out. You'll be able to tell by having a look quite easily.
Oooo.....that would be very good news. I'll check it out tomorrow. Which "hole" exactly is the location of the air adjustment screw?
Nope the 07 still has the caps on it but the hole is already drilled, all I had to do was use a wood screw, screw it in there good, the first few turns will strip out a little brass then it will bite. dont go in too far as to hit the screw My plugs were a little over an 1/8 inch thick maybe a 1/4 somewhere in between.
Quote from: Chanse on June 18, 2009, 06:59:49 PM
Nope the 07 still has the caps on it but the hole is already drilled, all I had to do was use a wood screw, screw it in there good, the first few turns will strip out a little brass then it will bite. dont go in too far as to hit the screw My plugs were a little over an 1/8 inch thick maybe a 1/4 somewhere in between.
Yep, I just went to see my bike and verified this. I see two brass caps under there. One is higher up (if you're look from underneath) and is wider while the other is more narrow. Which is the air adjustment screw cap?
should be the smaller one further out from center on the carb, (closer to the edge.)
Quote from: Chanse on June 18, 2009, 07:35:48 PM
should be the smaller one further out from center on the carb, (closer to the edge.)
Thanks. I was going over the carb diagram and looked at some pics in my haynes manual and the screw does look pretty narrow so yeah, that does sound right. oh well, more fun I guess. If this is the only problem I encounter, I'll be happy.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=47926.0
here is a link to another post for which brass caps to remove.
Ok, I got this done today. It only took me 2 hours vs the 7 hours it took me the first time. Drilling the brass cap was a PITA but eventually they came loose. Anyhow, I finally got the idle to be nice after about 1 and 3/4 turn. The bike runs smoothly. Revving it in neutral doesn't cause any dips in the RPMs or hanging. I took it out for a gentle ride and didn't hear or feel anything unusual so I took her for a highway run...pulls very nicely from about 3.5K all the way to 10K. There's no hesitation in the bike or any flat spots I could detect and release the throttle didn't result in any popping (at least none that I could hear). It was also good that I redid this since it turns out I got a two hoses mixed up but after much headache trying to extrapolate what I should do on an 07 after reading all the documents that really are for the older gen bikes, I am VERY HAPPY that I did this. The bike sounds really raw right now....it groans like a pissed off bull :D
Thanks to everyone who helped!
I would've done a full writeup with pics but I didn't have any help so trying to figure stuff out and take pictures just wasn't going to happen. I guess just a general note for anyone attempting this going forward on an 07 (or similar model - I guess K4 chassis and higher)
- Draw a diagram how your hoses are routed...they look NOTHING like what everyone has been posting on this forum
- Don't forget to drill out that stupid brass cap while you have the carbs out. This is a detail that isn't mentioned in any of the instructions until you put everything back and scratch your head about where the air mixture screw is and do a search on the forum.
- If you're going to shim the needles, get some replacement screws for the cap coz those can strip as well.
- You may want to order an extra carb drain screw or two because those can strip as well (wtf doesn't get stripped on this bike?)
-We also have a TPS sensor connected to the right side carb, disconnect that as well as the other white electrical plug at the bottom of the right side carb
- If you're going to permanently remove the airbox, you can use the drain hose when you drain the carb bowls
- We have 3 jets instead of 2. Two of the three look alike so make sure you read the values of the old jets and what you're replacing them with so you don't mix them up.
^^^^^
good points up there.
as far as stripping the screws goes: before attempting to unscrew a screw take a phillips head screw driver and place it on a screw head and then hit it quite hard with a hammer (just regular phillips head screw driver and hammer is OK. none of those fancy impact screw drivers are necessary)
and THEN unscrew the screw. It works flawlessly almost all the time.
I just replaced all DynoJet jests with mikuni and I did not strip even one screw using that method :thumb:
PS. The instruction that comes with DynoJet kit tells you about drilling the brass cap BEFORE you put everything together :thumb:
Next time you do it steguis, don't even need to take the carbs off. Simply loosen them from the boots, leave all hoses conncted, and just rotate them up till you can get access to the screws. Saves a lot of time and effort.
Got a chance to ride her a bit some more this morning and put together these two vids. The first vid is just a walkaround of the bike and what I've done to it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM6koQSMUoY
*EDIT: Here's a better one of the bike running...the "yeeehaaaaw" was me revving to 10K :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQqDHKJfBug
i haven't had a chance to pull the plugs yet but the felt a bit lean up to about quarter throttle with occasional pop or when slowing down so I closed the air mixture screw by about half a turn and last night she was a dream to ride.
OK it was lean to 1/4 throttle and you closed 1/2 turn the air screw and it got better - well there is atleast 3-4 things wrong with that sentence.
You made it leaner by turning in the air screw ... cos ironically the air screw is actually a mix screw. Its a tapered oblique obstruction in a tiny little fuel passage.
In - more of the thing enters the passage cutting down the flow. Out = it gets out of the way more and is a flow increase.
Pop on shut throttle etc etc is not lean. It could well be rich. Popping on acceleration = lean. Its called a lean Misfire. Pop on shut throttle may be normal. Its a 2 cyl with an unequal length exhaust pipe. Definetly can pop on shut throttle.
And air screw really controls idle and seriously gets very ineffective ~2000 rpm max. You should not be adjusting that for 1/4 throttle response. You need to adjust it for idle mix pretty much and nearly nothign else.
Really to 1/4 throttle you need to look @ float level. However leave the idle screw where it is, and after setting the float check it and adjust it.
You need to jet it top down, you change the lower adjustments only after you get the upper ones dialled in. Of course you miss the jetting at the low end in the begninig, you wont even get it started, so its a semi self defeating method.
But after you have it running, to get it running better - this is the order you ideally set them in.
Mains, and yes your mains should be fine as long as you told me what you were running.
Needle - yea - see above.
Floats - OK you need to adjust these right.
Pilot - no problem here - only 40 will work with the GS carbs on a stock motor.
Air screw - adjust away for idle issues.
That is the order to fine tune it. That is the only way to get it in 1 pass. Else you will have to fiddle many many times.
Cool.
Buddha.
Ah thanks...I'll check again. She definitely felt better yesterday, no popping, no dead spots, accelerated fine all the way to 10K and idle sounds nice and smooth.