Background: '98 GS500E, bought it late last summer, 15,XXX miles, have not done/changed anything to the bike in any way since I bought it with the exception of having the oil changed a few days ago by a shop.
Problem: Yesterday and this morning, when starting the bike to go for a ride, I had to hold the starter button down for about 3-4 seconds to get the bike to start. Choke didn't matter either time. I had to start it that way both times in any choke position. Once the bike was started, however, it ran fine as usual.
This afternoon, I decided to wash the bike for the first time since I bought it since it was filthy. I rinsed the bike with a hose, trying not to spray too much water on various areas of the engine and where electrical wires were. Those areas did get somewhat wet, however. Washed the bike with a sponge as thoroughly as I could and then rinsed it, again attempting to minimize how much water got on certain areas. I dried the bike off as well as I could with a towel and then left it in the sun in the driveway while I cut the grass and took a shower. When I came out to go take it for a ride to get something to eat, I discovered a wet spot on the driveway about 10" in diameter. There was fuel dripping (about a drop every 2-3 seconds), which it has never done before. It was coming from this rubber piece. I have no idea what the rubber piece is called or what its purpose is since I'm not familiar with motorcycles, but it had about a half inch slit in the tip of it. I don't know if that slit is supposed to be there or not. It's a pretty straight slit so it doesn't appear to have just cracked, but I could be wrong. Here's what I'm talking about:
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9759/fuelleak.jpg)
it didn't want to start, no matter how long I held the starter button in. A couple times I got it to stay running for a few (10-15) seconds with the choke on. It wasn't idling normally either. More of a slower, rougher idle. If I adjusted the choke at all, it died. If I touched the throttle at all, it died. If I did nothing and just let it run, it died within the time previously mentioned. I assumed that anything that may have gotten wet that shouldn't have would have air dried by sitting in the sun for about an hour. Maybe I was wrong in assuming this?
Anywho, I thought maybe the plugs were bad since I removed one a few weeks ago and it was pretty dirty (but dry) so I went to the store and picked up a set of plugs. I don't have a gapping tool, but I figured I'd just get them home and eyeball it compared with the ones I removed and then if it started and stayed running, I'd go to another store to get a gapping tool since the parts store I got the plugs at didn't have one that went smaller than .040"/.102mm (I think that's what it said). Regardless, the bike still wouldn't start and stay running with the new plugs. For what it's worth, the fuel leak appears to have gone away some how, even though there is still about 3/4 of gas in it. I didn't do anything to it to make it stop leaking. I have zero motorcycle troubleshooting experience and zero carb experience. Does anyone have a suggestion on what I should try to do or what the problem might be?
Sorry for such a long post, but I wanted to be thorough since I'm sure I would get questions. Any advice is greatly appreciated!
I think you have a stuck float or trash in the float needle. Or a clogged tank vent, so expanding vapors force fuel into the float bowls when the bike sits in the sun.
If it's a clogged tank vent, how would I go about fixing the problem? (Sorry for the stupidity and lack of knowledge)
I don't know.... Someone who actually knows what he's talking about will be along shortly.
Quote from: Tribefan on June 27, 2009, 04:37:01 PM
If it's a clogged tank vent, how would I go about fixing the problem? (Sorry for the stupidity and lack of knowledge)
there is an overflow line, which is what you're seeing weeping on the ground. it's not clogged (cause it's weeping) so you can forget about it for a while. dirt dobbers, worms (see one of my recent threads about it) and other animals will pack crap in the overflow and confound you ....
the vent isn't likely it. i'll bet on a stuck float. they usually start crapping about when everything seems to be going right.
tap the carbs (LIGHTLY) with a screwdriver handle and then try with the starter again.
note, if the floats stick open (float needle actually) you can possibly leak fuel into your engine, and hydro-lock the bike (DEAD) or infect the oil (DEAD, just slower) and kill it.
check your oil for a gassy smell. if it's gassy, CHANGE IT before you run it again, and get to the bottom of this problem. it really can kill an engine.
good luck padawan, pray the carbs don't hate you as much as me ;)
+1 on the float. Sounds like a stuck float to me. Sometimes the ol' screwdriver tap does the trick, but often times you'll have to unstick the float by hand and if you're having troubles like this your carbs need a cleaning anyway, otherwise it will just keep happening. Oh, and by the way, getting your bike wet had NOTHING to do with your problem, that was just coincidence. You can hose you bike down pretty liberally without having to worry about anything(unless you have an exposed aftermarket filter).
If the float were to stick open, is there any way of knowing, other than the gas smell in the oil? Any certain symptoms or anything? And how strong of a smell of gas would it be? I tend to not smell gas as well as other people seem to. No idea why. Just wondering if I should have someone else take a smell. I really don't want to risk messing up the engine.
You might check the oil level. If it is OVER full, and thinner than oil, it probably has gas in it. I had a Yamaha Radian (oil sight glass) with leaking float valve o-rings. I looked in the sight glass and couldn't tell if it was over full or empty. I drained it and found that the oil was very thin.
Honestly, you'll never be any good at wrenchin' if you don't just dig in and go for it. Get all the information you need online(gs500 wiki), and go for it! If you're always scared to mess with stuff, you'll be the guy that pays tons of money to have silly stuff done like oil changes and carb jetting. Nobody taught me how to turn wrenches, I just did my research and went for it everytime and now I'm an automotive technician...lol If there's fuel coming out your overflow it's because the fuel level is way to high in the carbs. Iv'e never had fuel come out the overflow for no reason.
Yeah, i know I need to suck it up and try doing some of the work myself. Just a little intimidated I guess. Don't want to make things worse. But I know this site is a great resource for information, so I'm sure I can't do -that- much damage. Lol.
Yeah the hose dripping is the drain hose for the air box. It has fuel coming out of it because gas got into your airbox. That is likely why your bike wouldn't start. If you try and run fuel rich air from a airbox with gas in it through a carb, it will be too rich to run. There is a little clear bulb at the bottom of the airbox that might let you see if there is still gas in there or if it's all drained. (Mine isn't clear enough anymore for me to see anything.)
The reason you have fuel in your airbox is, as everyone said, probably because of a stuck or out of adjustment float in your carb.
Probably the best way to check if that truely is your problem is to do a float height check (http://www.bbburma.net/FloatHeight.htm). If it's too high, then your best be is to take your carbs off. It's not too complicated if you have a good guide or a shop manual. This (http://gstwin.com/carb_work.htm) should get your started, but you don't' need to completely rebuild just monkey with the bowl and float (which are the parts on the underside)
OK so what is the liquid that is comming out the drain ?
If its oil+carbon mix - its blow by.
If it was almost all gas - shake the bike vigorously side to side on the stand and up and down etc etc ... then try to start it ...
You leave it in prime ? You got floats that are overflowing, but its a adjustment not a cause for alarm. 89-00 carbs have floats that wear high, in a way, you have to adjust em every year with time.
Yea you can send it to me for checking rejet re Oring if needed. You prolly are OK with most of it, it needs to be set back right.
Cool.
Buddha.
From what I could tell, it was all gas. I didn't leave it in prime, but I did try starting the bike a few times on different occasions in the prime position. I read where someone suggested trying that but it still never started/stayed running. I always returned it to the normal position after the attempts to get it running. I tried shaking the bike like you suggested and still no luck.
I bought a 99 a few months ago. going through the carbs (& rejetting) was the best thing I ever did! it sounds like you just have a stuck float. it is really easy to get to the carbs. I know it seems over whelming at first but just keep all your screws & parts together & look at the exploded diagrams to fugure out how to put it all back together :thumb:
I don't doubt that it's more simple than it seems to a first timer, but for the initial (for me) servicing of the carbs, I'd rather leave it to someone who knows their stuff. Especially since I don't know how long it's been since the carbs have been serviced. Once I get this initial issue resolved and I know the carbs have been gone through, I'd then feel more comfortable about doing the job myself in the future. So to get the bike back up and running again in a decent time frame, I'm okay with paying Buddha to go through the carbs and get them to ideal running condition.
Quote from: PePe on July 05, 2009, 02:20:22 PM
I bought a 99 a few months ago. going through the carbs (& rejetting) was the best thing I ever did! it sounds like you just have a stuck float. it is really easy to get to the carbs. I know it seems over whelming at first but just keep all your screws & parts together & look at the exploded diagrams to fugure out how to put it all back together :thumb:
He's right ... however I throw away all the screws and jets I remove. In fact my driveway is littered with them, and my yard too, and I explain to my wife saying its iron for the soil ...
Tribefan - you may have that sluck float like he's saying. You cannot afford to miss it even by 1mm. They both should be equal at the float gasket level and not more than 1mm off - BTW 1mm is a freaking mile in the context of this. Set it 1mm high and its like running a i size larger main jet. However it increases the likelyhood of leaking under acceleration the higher you set it, and it is like a +1 on the mains, but only when you are at over 3/4 throttle and holding steady. If you're down in the 1/4 throttle range and open it, a high float will act soggy and woefully low on power. Anyway, you may have some crap in the Float seat, a bad seat O ring (to be determined after a blow test) or just some how the float needle and seat are not sliding shut anymore. Yea I'll fix it. No problem send it over.
Cool.
Buddha.
I pulled apart and went through my carbs for the first time this past week. I was definitely hesitant as I was pulling them apart, had no clue what was going on, and was pretty worried I'd never get them back together again. After I had them apart, while I still can't actually say how it works, I feel perfectly comfortable with rebuilding one. Don't think I'd be able to really diagnose any problems by looking at it, unless something was obviously broken or cracked, but if a good cleaning is all you're after you should definitely be able to handle that much. If it's not running right, and you decide you're going to take it to someone to get it fixed, then there's no reason not to pull it apart and clean it yourself. A good cleaning might fix it, and if it doesn't, or you can't get it back together right, you were already planning on taking it somewhere anyway, so go for it. All you need is a normal sized phillips head screwdriver, a normal sized flathead, and a little flathead.
Well Idiot mechanics want the whole bike - so they can diagnose it and take it apart right ... yea right, they can keep the bill running ...
With my customers I pretty much say - you'reon straight hourly, please help me and while that may not do anything for the overall bill - cos I work slower with asking questions etc it will help them learn and get themselves to a point where they can fix it themselves - and if they get stuck, call me.
Yea, I lose many customers that way. Gone ... do carbs for someone 1 time and they never come back.
Cool.
Buddha.