The other day I'm walking out of a WalMart carrying a bag with two video games that I had just purchased 30 seconds before using legal US currency. As I was walking out the door a Wally World employee jumps in front of me and demands to see my receipt. I politely tell him no and continue walking out of the store. The fool jumps in front of me again and informs me that he has to see my receipt or he will have to call the :police:. I replied "Fine, you call for the Police and for a pizza, see which gets here sooner." and left the store without further incident.
Needless to say, the Police never showed up at my doorstep. I understand the need to prevent theft but there are cameras capable of covering every square inch of floor space. Once I have purchased an item, that item belongs to me and I'll do what I damn well please with it...including not showing it to overzealous door greeters.
My rights are being slowly whittled away. I'll be damned if a pimply faced WalMart employee is going to take even more of them.
As a side note, if shopping at a Sam's Club or Costco I will show my receipt if asked since they are membership based and have the right to set rules on their members. If I don't like those rules I don't have to shop there.
+1
They want to make trouble for them that pay but you can tell them " hey that guy is shop lifting" and they do squat about it. :mad:
Personally, I think that that's a battle you shouldn't pick... it's too minor.
Show the receipt and be done with it. It's not like it has personal information on it.
Meh, if they ask, I stop.
If people start stealing stuff left and right (oh wait, you mean they are already doing that?) we may see increases in prices to cover the loss of goods that were stolen.
However, does what Wal-mart pays the receipt checker cost more or less than what they lose in theft?
Could they actually save money by not having a receipt checker?
But if they remove the receipt checker, is that an incentive for people to shoplift?
(remind me not to post while I'm doing my economics homework)
Ann,
It's just they don't stop the thugs but will try and stop me with my wife and kids.
I meen WFT.
I don't ware big a$$ pants and a jacket when it's 90 outside but well I guess they think I am sneeking stuff out in my babys diaper. :dunno_white:
Quote from: cafeboy on July 09, 2009, 07:12:13 PM
+1
They want to make trouble for them that pay but you can tell them " hey that guy is shop lifting" and they do squat about it. :mad:
Correction. They CAN do something about it.
I was a witness to an attempted theft at my last job. (I'm sorry I even did it, 'cause the company fuqqed me over and fired me over nothing). I grabbed the license plate and the managers called it into the police.
A detective was assigned the case and he was able to get the man to admit he tried to steal from the store. He was put in jail and probation... although I don't know the details.
Quote from: annguyen1981 on July 09, 2009, 07:16:53 PM
Quote from: cafeboy on July 09, 2009, 07:12:13 PM
+1
They want to make trouble for them that pay but you can tell them " hey that guy is shop lifting" and they do squat about it. :mad:
Correction. They CAN do something about it.
I was a witness to an attempted theft at my last job. (I'm sorry I even did it, 'cause the company fuqqed me over and fired me over nothing). I grabbed the license plate and the managers called it into the police.
A detective was assigned the case and he was able to get the man to admit he tried to steal from the store. He was put in jail and probation... although I don't know the details.
Yes they can, but will not.
I saw 2 guys rob the vending truck at my job. They even talked to me while doing it. got the tags told the driver, Did the police line up and even went to trial. You no what I got for all that ??? Not even a thank you , f you, have a great day, nothing.
But , Well why did YOU let them do it. :2guns:
Quote from: annguyen1981 on July 09, 2009, 07:13:14 PM
Personally, I think that that's a battle you shouldn't pick... it's too minor.
Show the receipt and be done with it. It's not like it has personal information on it.
Then why shouldn't they be able to inspect the trunk of your car before pulling out of the parking lot? Why not make you empty your pockets before you leave? Once you get taught that losing your rights is "minor" then it becomes easier to start taking away the rest.
Next thing you know you'll be filling out forms to prove you can own a firearm, taking your shoes off at the airport, or explaining to your 4 ft tall wife that the airbag in her car could kill her but she can't buy a car without one.
Quote from: XealotX on July 09, 2009, 07:28:42 PM
Next thing you know you'll be filling out forms to prove you can own a firearm, taking your shoes off at the airport, or explaining to your 4 ft tall wife that the airbag in her car could kill her but she can't buy a car without one.
wait just a second........oh.....nvm....
Let's see... while it's still inside the store, it's possibly still THEIR property. YOU have the responisibility to prove that it's yours.
Out in the parking lot, it's PROBABLY your property. THEY have the resposibility to prove that it's theirs IF they have more than just a "hunch".
If you as a 3rd party tells an owner that they are getting ripped off, the owner CANNOT do anything unless they themselves see something suspicious. It's like if you see a cager speeding down a residential area at 100+ mph and call the cops... they can't do anything 'cause they didn't see it themselves.
Quote from: annguyen1981 on July 09, 2009, 07:50:33 PM
Let's see... while it's still inside the store, it's possibly still THEIR property. YOU have the responisibility to prove that it's yours.
Once I purchase an item it belongs to me.
Period.
It belongs to me whether I leave the store, go back into the store for something else, or tear the item I just purchased into a hundred little pieces right in front of the cashier.
Next thing you know I might purchase a house and then WalMart will show up and tell me that I no longer own my house because they want to build another store on my property. I guess I then have the "responsibility" to prove that I own that house...except I PROBABLY don't anymore since the government will have taken it through imminent domain.
But that's OK since losing my house is a minor battle compared to the community getting cheap lawn chairs and lemon scented pledge.
Very true.
When you take my cash, then the item is mine. If I buy a shirt then go in to the rest room and put it on, then walk out of the store, it's still mine and that's my right to do it.
Yes... you buy an item, it's yours... there's NOOO question or argument about that.
but the question is this: How do THEY know it's yours??? At the front door, the ONLY people that know it's yours is the cashier and you.
I'm with xealot here. Once the transfer concludes it is your property and they have no right to inspect that property. I've been kicked out of stores, had the cops called on me and gotten into a pretty mean little tussle with a security guard over this issue. Rights are very black and white in my world, but the rest of the world seems to be seeing them in multiple shades of grey. I can, will and have defended MY rights forcefully, just ask the security guard that put his hand on my shoulder and ended up with a collapsed lung.
Thank you and good night, I've got weapons to clean.
An, in our system the burden of proof lies with the accuser. Wal-Mart must have solid proof that you have infringed upon their rights by stealing before they may infringe upon yours legally.
Like I said Ann, untill they start stoping the thugs, then they can bite me.
I do not look like a thug and will not be treated like a bum.
If they want to cut down on theft, then they need to start stoping them folks and the one that leave with no bags.
When I go to a store, I go to buy thing, not to just walk around and hang out and look like a crook.
It's not the property that is being questioned.... it's who OWNS the property. At the front door, the only people who know the truth about the ownership of said property are you and the cashier... that's it.
Quote from: annguyen1981 on July 09, 2009, 08:14:24 PM
How do THEY know it's yours???
They don't.
They had every opportunity to catch me shoplifting while I was in the store. If they failed, then that is their problem.
Look, I understand that it is hard to catch thieves, and I have all the sympathy in the world for stores that are trying to make a profit. Hell, i used to work at WalMart...a thousand years ago. But, if you make a store that is too damned big to properly monitor then don't seem surprised when you start getting robbed.
Quote from: spc on July 09, 2009, 08:16:50 PM
I'm with xealot here. Once the transfer concludes it is your property and they have no right to inspect that property. I've been kicked out of stores, had the cops called on me and gotten into a pretty mean little tussle with a security guard over this issue. Rights are very black and white in my world, but the rest of the world seems to be seeing them in multiple shades of grey. I can, will and have defended MY rights forcefully, just ask the security guard that put his hand on my shoulder and ended up with a collapsed lung.
Thank you and good night, I've got weapons to clean.
An, in our system the burden of proof lies with the accuser. Wal-Mart must have solid proof that you have infringed upon their rights by stealing before they may infringe upon yours legally.
The WalMart in question is near your neck of the woods I believe, near Sandfly.
Quote from: cafeboy on July 09, 2009, 08:18:53 PM
Like I said Ann, untill they start stoping the thugs, then they can bite me.
I do not look like a thug and will not be treated like a bum.
If they want to cut down on theft, then they need to start stoping them folks and the one that leave with no bags.
When I go to a store, I go to buy thing, not to just walk around and hang out and look like a crook.
So by your logic, I should have had the cops called on me four times today... I went into AutoZone, Advanced Auto, a truck accessory store, and Lowes... all without buying anything. I certainly didn't have anything in my hands when I walked through the doors to the parking lot.
Quote from: XealotX on July 09, 2009, 08:19:48 PM
Quote from: annguyen1981 on July 09, 2009, 08:14:24 PM
How do THEY know it's yours???
They don't.
They had every opportunity to catch me shoplifting while I was in the store. If they failed, then that is their problem.
Look, I understand that it is hard to catch thieves, and I have all the sympathy in the world for stores that are trying to make a profit. Hell, i used to work at WalMart...a thousand years ago. But, if you make a store that is too damned big to properly monitor then don't seem surprised when you start getting robbed.
They are not surprised that they are getting robbed. They KNOW it. It's called loss prevention. Some form of it has been going on since forever...
I'm surprised that you didn't take the stance that some stores videotape you... that's an invasion of your privacy, isn't it?
An, go back to your Obama/Hippie bullsh!t land.
Xealot, yeah that's not far at all.
Quote from: XealotX on July 09, 2009, 08:19:48 PM
Quote from: annguyen1981 on July 09, 2009, 08:14:24 PM
How do THEY know it's yours???
They don't.
They had every opportunity to catch me shoplifting while I was in the store. If they failed, then that is their problem.
Look, I understand that it is hard to catch thieves, and I have all the sympathy in the world for stores that are trying to make a profit. Hell, i used to work at WalMart...a thousand years ago. But, if you make a store that is too damned big to properly monitor then don't seem surprised when you start getting robbed.
And if the store associates or managers were to follow you and keep and very close watch on you... I'm SURE you wouldn't mind that and NOT complain. THAT'S a bigger invasion of your privacy.
Yes... there are ways to catch a thief while they are IN the store. Legally though, they are NOT a thief until they pass the POS line. Once they pass the point of sale line, they are now considered a thief because there is now proof that they did not intend to purchase said item. If they slipped something in a helmet (which I do almost every time 'cause it's a handy basket), they can't do anything until I get to the front door without paying.
HA! Obama's fuqqing this country all up and the masses are LETTING him. I'm not part of that. That's an insult.
Quote from: annguyen1981 on July 09, 2009, 08:22:07 PM
Quote from: cafeboy on July 09, 2009, 08:18:53 PM
Like I said Ann, untill they start stoping the thugs, then they can bite me.
I do not look like a thug and will not be treated like a bum.
If they want to cut down on theft, then they need to start stoping them folks and the one that leave with no bags.
When I go to a store, I go to buy thing, not to just walk around and hang out and look like a crook.
So by your logic, I should have had the cops called on me four times today... I went into AutoZone, Advanced Auto, a truck accessory store, and Lowes... all without buying anything. I certainly didn't have anything in my hands when I walked through the doors to the parking lot.
Do you look like a thug Ann ???
If so then I'm sorry for you.
What I am saying is, WHy the hell give me crap, I am walking out with a shopping cart full of your crap that I paid for, with my wife, a seven year old, and a new born, but the gang of thungs that walk out in front of me you with big ass pants and jackets in the summer time you just let walk out.
So tell me why this is Ann ???
What I hate is that once I've paid and everything is bagged up, I push the cart aside, stuff the receipt in my pocket, load my arms up and head out the door...until I get stopped, then I have to put my shiat down on the floor and get the receipt back out of my pocket to show Mr. Rentacop, then pick my shiat all back up (harder to pick it up from the floor) and make my exit.
See, I will not do it.
If they have to see it, they walk your a$$ out to my car and when I have put my stuff in then I will show it to you.
If that don't work then bite me
Quote from: cafeboy on July 09, 2009, 08:30:06 PM
Quote from: annguyen1981 on July 09, 2009, 08:22:07 PM
Quote from: cafeboy on July 09, 2009, 08:18:53 PM
Like I said Ann, untill they start stoping the thugs, then they can bite me.
I do not look like a thug and will not be treated like a bum.
If they want to cut down on theft, then they need to start stoping them folks and the one that leave with no bags.
When I go to a store, I go to buy thing, not to just walk around and hang out and look like a crook.
So by your logic, I should have had the cops called on me four times today... I went into AutoZone, Advanced Auto, a truck accessory store, and Lowes... all without buying anything. I certainly didn't have anything in my hands when I walked through the doors to the parking lot.
Do you look like a thug Ann ???
If so then I'm sorry for you.
What I am saying is, WHy the hell give me crap, I am walking out with a shopping cart full of your crap that I paid for, with my wife, a seven year old, and a new born, but the gang of thungs that walk out in front of me you with big ass pants and jackets in the summer time you just let walk out.
So tell me why this is Ann ???
It's An. Get it right... NOT "Ann"
Anyway... No. I don't think I look like a thug. But I am disturbed that you stereotype people by looks.
Do you remember the attempted theft that I mentioned at the begining of this thread? The two people were a WHITE couple. WELL dressed. Well dressed white people NEVER steal, so I must have made a mistake when I saw them heading out the door with a carriage full of product... JUST LIKE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.
One of my best customers when I worked there: scruffy looking guy. NEVER shaved. Hair looked like he just woke up or something. Clothes looked like old rags... and yet he was on my top 100 customer list... meaning he spent a LOT of money there.
So looks has NOTHING to do with it... I always say that those people that claim racism, sexism, and all that other BS are the bigger racists and sexists. I've been called a racist a couple times because the customer didn't like the outcome of a conversation or something... I'm ALWAYS shocked at the comment and NEVER know what to say. Why? Because their race or religion or sex has NOTHING to do with how I treat people.
Quote from: cafeboy on July 09, 2009, 08:37:02 PM
See, I will not do it.
If they have to see it, they walk your a$$ out to my car and when I have put my stuff in then I will show it to you.
If that don't work then bite me
It doesn't sound like you offer them that choice to follow you out to your car.
i don't usually get stopped walking out of walmart...unless i've bought an electronic and the "theft deterent" device wasn't properly activated and the lil buzzer starts ringing...... :mad: :mad:
Quote from: jserio on July 09, 2009, 08:48:18 PM
i don't usually get stopped walking out of walmart...unless i've bought an electronic and the "theft deterent" device wasn't properly activated and the lil buzzer starts ringing...... :mad: :mad:
Ya know what? Come to think of it, I've NEVER gotten stopped at Walmart. The sensors never went off on me either.
Glad to know how you feel about "white folks"
But I was not talking race.
When I had hair down to my belt, I was treated like a bum or thug. By the cops and by store owners. I do not look like that any more and so so so sorry to tell you this sir. every one looks at the way you look before they every say any thing to you.
So please don't come at me with this race crap caus it's not about that and the stereotype crap. If you don't want to be then don't fit the part
it's really irritating. they don't stop everyone either, it's like, random. or given the appearence of random-ness... :2guns:
I wasn't the one who brought "looks" into this conv... you did. I was just pointing out that "looks" has nothing to do with who is a criminal.
No you said whites like you and your wife.
I said it's good to know how you feel about whites.
Yes I do look white but on every paper I have every filled out I am other, not white.
You my friend may need help for this race prob. you have. :dunno_white:
Good luck with that.
Quote from: jserio on July 09, 2009, 08:53:59 PM
it's really irritating. they don't stop everyone either, it's like, random. or given the appearence of random-ness... :2guns:
+1
That's what I am saying, make it accross the board or don't do it at all
Quote from: cafeboy on July 09, 2009, 09:03:01 PM
No you said whites like you and your wife.
I said it's good to know how you feel about whites.
Yes I do look white but on every paper I have every filled out I am other, not white.
You my friend may need help for this race prob. you have. :dunno_white:
Good luck with that.
I'm sorry for the mixup... I didn't mean "like you" as in the white comment... I meant it as in "you, your wife, and kids" comment. The two theives were together and seemed like a family. THAT'S what I meant.
OK :icon_mrgreen:
But still stops should be accross the board or not done at all.
^^^ That I agree with... but every store that has asked me for a receipt DOES have it all across the board... NO ONE gets out with product unless they mark the receipt.
So maybe I'm having a hard time with sympathy because I've never encountered a "random" receipt check.
I once walked into wally world with my tank bag and some dumb arse old lady started hollaring at me that she needed to search my bag, "On the way In", I said are you frucking kidding me? I dont see you searching any of these women walking in with their big ass purses.... " she said she was gonna call the cops, I said good fruckin luck and kept walkin... none ever showed.... and I even gave the old broad the finger on the way out..... lol
I have never been stopped at Wal-mart for a random receipt check.
They only try to stop me when a cashier forgets to take off the security tag and it sets off the alarm.
I refuse to stop, it is a waste of my time, it is embarrassing, and an invasion of my rights.
Suspecting someone of something does not give you the right to search their property, that's what search warrants are for.
It is Wal-mart's fault the alarm went off, not mine; if the cashier paid closer attention it would not happen.
I paid for the items, they are mine. If you want them you should get a warrant or be prepared for a fight.
I had to stop in at Walmart today... as I'm going inside, I see the greeter checking a guy's PERSONAL bags.... I was like "WTF?!!?" until I realized he was a vendor. It's procedure to check vendor's, associate's, mgr's bags. lol
Quote from: annguyen1981 on July 09, 2009, 08:23:47 PM
I'm surprised that you didn't take the stance that some stores videotape you... that's an invasion of your privacy, isn't it?
No. I consent to being video taped when entering a store with cameras. Stores place a sign at the entrance informing the customer of video surveillance. I get to choose whether to shop there.
Besides, most store cameras are pointed at the employees anyway. Employees will rob a business blind just as fast as customers will...if not faster...
Quote from: annguyen1981 on July 09, 2009, 08:27:27 PM
And if the store associates or managers were to follow you and keep and very close watch on you... I'm SURE you wouldn't mind that and NOT complain. THAT'S a bigger invasion of your privacy.
Again, no. While shopping at their store the merchandise belongs to them. I am not a thief so they can follow me around with an army of people for all I care. Sometimes I can't decide between Fudge Ripple or Mint Chocolate Chip so I would be happy to ask their advice as they follow me around.
Quote from: Caffeine on July 09, 2009, 08:34:27 PM
What I hate is that once I've paid and everything is bagged up, I push the cart aside, stuff the receipt in my pocket, load my arms up and head out the door...until I get stopped, then I have to put my shiat down on the floor and get the receipt back out of my pocket to show Mr. Rentacop, then pick my shiat all back up (harder to pick it up from the floor) and make my exit.
Uhhhh...then how about NOT bothering to show the Rentacop your receipt? Imagine how much easier that would be.
Quote from: annguyen1981 on July 09, 2009, 09:10:46 PM
... but every store that has asked me for a receipt DOES have it all across the board... NO ONE gets out with product unless they mark the receipt.
NO ONE gets out, huh? How exactly do they stop you?
Machine gun bunker?
Barbed wire fence?
Shot Guns with .00 buck?
Taser?
Cattle Prod?
Attack Dogs?
Harsh Language?
Really mean glare?
The only thing stopping you from casually walking out that door as you please is 20+ years of carefully taught obedience and conformity.
The barrier is in your mind.
Now I know it is there right to say "don't come back". If you do come back that can be grounds for Tresspassing then you can be arrested.
Cafe as far as the family unit shouldn't be checked. This is something I'm not proud of but was only five years old so I couldn't really do anything but my cousins would sit me and my second cousin in the cart have us take our jackets off and put them in the bottom of the cart. They would come out with hundreds of dollars in merchandise. Honestly, they made a killing off of it and my cousin only got caught once in the years that I can remember. Like I said I'm not proud of it but it happens alot.
BTW if you want to go to any of the Theme Parks here in Cental Florida be prepared to open all of your bags women included. You don't wanna play ball you go home. Don't care if you already spent thousands on tickets they ain't gonna refund them either! When you buy your ticket you lose almost all of your rights just read the small print on the back!
Mary
Quote from: XealotX on July 10, 2009, 03:41:02 PM
Quote from: annguyen1981 on July 09, 2009, 08:27:27 PM
And if the store associates or managers were to follow you and keep and very close watch on you... I'm SURE you wouldn't mind that and NOT complain. THAT'S a bigger invasion of your privacy.
Again, no. While shopping at their store the merchandise belongs to them. I am not a thief so they can follow me around with an army of people for all I care. Sometimes I can't decide between Fudge Ripple or Mint Chocolate Chip so I would be happy to ask their advice as they follow me around.
I'm sorry, but that statement sounds like bullshyt to me. I doubt that you'd feel "confortable" with people following you aronud a store... from the moment you walk in to the moment you get your receipt.
Oh.. btw, most of the store in my area DON'T have signs stating that you are being videotaped.
What do you say about that?
Ok.
What happens when you order something either online or instore and you come back another day to pick it up. With YOUR reasoning, you shouldn't have to show them ANY paperwork/receipt stating that you paid for it... is that right? I mean... you already paid for it. So it's legally yours now. You should be able to just carry the item and walk right out the front door without ANYONE working there trying to protect their assets.
And when I say "their assets" I mean the product they THINK is there's until YOU prove otherwise.
at the west side wal-mart here the creepy old guy working the door just stops you to tell you amusing storys in his life, so we go to the other door where they just shut the hell up and leave you alone
Quote from: annguyen1981 on July 11, 2009, 09:28:57 AM
I'm sorry, but that statement sounds like bullshyt to me. I doubt that you'd feel "confortable" with people following you aronud a store... from the moment you walk in to the moment you get your receipt.
You don't know me. Are you starting to take this thread personally?
Quote from: annguyen1981 on July 11, 2009, 09:30:26 AM
Oh.. btw, most of the store in my area DON'T have signs stating that you are being videotaped.
What do you say about that?
Glad I don't live in MA...by the way, look harder.
Quote from: annguyen1981 on July 11, 2009, 09:32:33 AM
Ok.
What happens when you order something either online or instore and you come back another day to pick it up. With YOUR reasoning, you shouldn't have to show them ANY paperwork/receipt stating that you paid for it... is that right? I mean... you already paid for it. So it's legally yours now. You should be able to just carry the item and walk right out the front door without ANYONE working there trying to protect their assets.
And when I say "their assets" I mean the product they THINK is there's until YOU prove otherwise.
Either you are trying to argue just to be argumentative or you lack the intellectual capacity to understand the concept of this thread. Either way, I'm finished trying (and apparently failing) to answer you.
I wish you all happiness in life.
I love you too.
(http://www.r6-forum.com/forums/images/smilies/smlove2.gif)
When I worked at target back in the day we had ptz's. Pan-tilt-zoom cameras. In order to perform a citizen's arrest outside the door you had to have video footage of the person entering the store, selecting an item, concealing an item, not paying for an item, then leaving the store - and all parts in between. We picked people to watch based on their shoes more than anything else. Well-kept shoes would typically mean we didn't watch you. We'd only stop people to check receipts if they had things that weren't in bags. That includes big packages of toilet paper, soda, or cosmetics that were along the back edge of the cart. We never searched bags, store or otherwise.
The reason for all these restrictions was legal. To arrest you have to prove guilt, and to question a purchase there has to be something that's not been bagged. That way there is no invasion of privacy, no illegal searches or detainment, and the company doesn't get sued.