RIP for the lady rider on GS :cry: too many riders got killed past two weeks :dunno_black:
(http://www.hnn.co.il/pics/gal7963/1589830330_456157076.jpg)
(http://hnn.co.il/pics/gal7963/872671922_2108507235.jpg)
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Don't know for sure what happened,road is straight with good visibility , probably went for overtaking :dunno_black:
wow, the tire came off the rim. that must have been one helluva impact
Affschnozel - thanks for understanding, and the response. Thanks also for bringing us a little closer to riding sanely through the pictures. I'll edit my comments to reflect your thinking. :)
RIP rider.
Nah.
Plates are obscured so you can't really know.
And I think we all need a reminder sometimes.
just my opinion.
Quote from: ohgood on July 29, 2009, 05:37:41 PM
we've all been very close to this at one time or another. from what i understand the time fatalities happen is on clear, bright, sunny days close to home. :(
ride in peace gs'er, teach us patience.
edit:
on second thought, how about taking down the pictures until it's verified that the victim wasn't anyone here. family/friends might accidentally see it, you know ? just a thought.
comment removed by author
Quote from: intergalactic on July 29, 2009, 05:41:44 PM
Plates are obscured so you can't really know.
Yeah but with those mirrors, the luggage rack, and the case guards it isn't exactly run of the mill. . . . .
Quote from: ohgood on July 29, 2009, 05:37:41 PM
we've all been very close to this at one time or another. from what i understand the time fatalities happen is on clear, bright, sunny days close to home. :(
This is truly a shame. It looks like the minivan driver is innocent this time.
I disagree with when fatalities usually happen. I think most bikers eat it at night on the way home from the bar. That's how it seems here, anyway. Being cut-off by inattentive drivers would be second. Running from the cops/stunting would be third. Just my impression.
the large hole in the top of the minivan windshield probably indicates the trajectory of the rider...
Quote from: bill14224 on July 29, 2009, 06:36:38 PM
Quote from: ohgood on July 29, 2009, 05:37:41 PM
we've all been very close to this at one time or another. from what i understand the time fatalities happen is on clear, bright, sunny days close to home. :(
This is truly a shame. It looks like the minivan driver is innocent this time.
I disagree with when fatalities usually happen. I think most bikers eat it at night on the way home from the bar. That's how it seems here, anyway. Being cut-off by inattentive drivers would be second. Running from the cops/stunting would be third. Just my impression.
Here too. most fatal motorcycle accidents around here happen late night/early morning. some with no other vehicle invovled. More proof of why any one who drinks should always keep emergency taxi money seperate from your drinking funds. or be sure you have a good friend close by that will l t you crash on the couch or give you a ride.
Its sad that this happened.
Quote from: Dr.Sparkie on July 29, 2009, 07:12:03 PM
the large hole in the top of the minivan windshield probably indicates the trajectory of the rider...
I don't know... the roof isn't bent down from body impact nor are the handlebars bent forward which would happen as the legs come through as the rider's body went forward. The tank is up though and could explain the window hole. Oddly the headlight is intact while the tacho/speedo covers are missing. Judging by the tank squeezing I'd assume the legs coming forward did that - in which case the rider wouldn't have jumped up and off the bike to fly over the car. Unfortunately I do not read Hebrew so cannot decipher what Israeli website the pictures come from.
Good reminder though to take it easy and be ever watchful.
Michael
Man, seeing that just tears at my heart. Truly truly sad for everyone involved and their families. :cry:
The woman was 40 years old ,worked as a psychologist , she was very cautious experienced rider according to her family and friends , there were 5 people in the car with minor injuries , how the accident occured is yet unknown ,some speculate that either the driver or rider were blinded by the sun at that time on the road :icon_sad:
Oh damn. RIP.
Prayers to family and friends.
Oh man....RIP rider... :sad:
I think the squeezing of the back of the tank was caused by the sudden stop of the gas inside it being thrown to the front, creating vacuum. Probably about half a tank of gas. Judging from the shadows I'd say the Sun was not a factor. The Sun is high, unless it took hours to take the photos, which is unlikely. Looks like she was hot-rodding, psychologist or not. We're all crazy to ride motorcycles, so I guess it makes sense in a way...
Quote from: bill14224 on July 30, 2009, 07:12:20 AM
I think the squeezing of the back of the tank was caused by the sudden stop of the gas inside it being thrown to the front, creating vacuum.
Umm, no. No vacuum is created when gas is thrown forward and air (already in the tank) is thus moved backwards. The buckling is AFAICT because the tank is bolted at the back of the tank, and is bent up nearly 90 degrees.
Quote from: bill14224 on July 29, 2009, 06:36:38 PM
I disagree with when fatalities usually happen. I think most bikers eat it at night on the way home from the bar. That's how it seems here, anyway. Being cut-off by inattentive drivers would be second. Running from the cops/stunting would be third. Just my impression.
When I started riding, I stopped drinking (well, I got used to drinking things with no alcohol -
not near beer - yuk) any time I was riding. Not even one (there's a quite measurable effect on your reaction time that takes a good 24 hours to go away). Eventually I started applying that same rule to driving a car/truck (you're more likely to survive it, but the people you hit might not be.) I drink at home, I drink within walking distance, I drink if I have a driver who is not drinking - I don't drink and ride, even a little.
A couple of years ago I got unexpectedly stuck driving a car after the "customarily accepted as 'safe' " one beer with dinner. I didn't have an accident, but I was definitely not happy about it, and would have skipped the beer had I known. Substitute motorcycle for car in that situation, and I would have refused/walked.
Quote from: redhenracing2 on July 29, 2009, 05:37:08 PM
wow, the tire came off the rim. that must have been one helluva impact
As for the dismounted tire, that's what happens when a cast front wheel is involved in a head-on collision. RIP for the rider is also pretty customary - avoiding target fixation and learning to swerve away, even if that means crashing on the side of the road is essential to improving your odds. MSF - have you taken one lately?
Just when you think you are a safe rider you see something like this and it scares the hell out of you!
As depressing as this thread is with the loss of life maybe we all need these reminders from time to time to keep riders focused. I'd much rather prefer a surviving rider but in this case I don't think rider had a chance.
I have seen a few of these i my time but when it is on a bike YOU own it makes it hit way harder for some reason. That is truly sad.
Quote from: O.C.D. on July 30, 2009, 08:24:26 AM
I have seen a few of these i my time but when it is on a bike YOU own it makes it hit way harder for some reason. That is truly sad.
Good point O.C.D. now that you say that. It brings it a little closer to home.
RIP dear non/GSTwinner.
Cool.
Buddha.
That sucks. RIP rider.
Quote from: Affschnozel on July 30, 2009, 02:58:05 AM
The woman was 40 years old ,worked as a psychologist , she was very cautious experienced rider according to her family and friends , there were 5 people in the car with minor injuries , how the accident occured is yet unknown ,some speculate that either the driver or rider were blinded by the sun at that time on the road :icon_sad:
I've hesitated to respond to this thread because it reminds me of my own mortality. No matter how safe we try to be I think we've all had those close calls and done some dumb things on our bikes where we later said to ourselves "man, that was a stupid risk." At least we were lucky enough to be able to reflect on our mistakes. My condolences to the family and my best wishes to those still among us.
-Jessie
Regrettably I have to update with another fatality, GS rider collided with a firetruck which presumably went through red light , RIP :cry:
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Okay, that is bad :sad:! Gotta ask a question. Here in the U.S there was a study done about us EMTs blasting through traffic and red lights. What it did find was that it only shaved off 2.5 to 3 minutes on a call or transport. They considered that to be too high a risk for more injuries or fatalities. Here in Florida they don't want you speeding or running lights. They equipped all of our units with light changing devices (wish I had one for Flick). Now we do run lights and sirens and if we come to an intersection that is not equipped with the reader then we may proceed after 5 seconds of the clearing of the intersection. So, to the question do EMS vehicles blow through red lights there?
This has changed my regard for speeding and changing lanes because if a massive MAV with lights and sirens can only shave off a couple of minutes of drive time I'm not gonna save any and maybe decrease my chances of becoming a statistic.
Rip rider!
Mary
Emergency vehicles may proceed ( with lights and sirens ) through red light with caution after insuring that all vehicles
noticed and stopped , if any accident occurs the blame is mainly on the driver of the emergency vehicle
if I remember correctly from my own EMS training .
It seems to me rider noticed too late , locked brakes and slid under :dunno_black:
You can see here the markings of the PO:
(http://hnn.co.il/pics/gal8236/1316850314_1491169968.JPG)
RIP.
To Mary's point - I recall hearing about several road rage/reckless driving studies that were done a few years ago. If I recall correctly, people who stayed calm and stayed in one lane usually wound up getting to their destinations minutes ahead of the others (I heard about this on a show about hypermiling). Also, people seemed to have better attitudes throughout the rest of the day when they didn't have road rage (go figure :cookoo:).
It never ceases to amaze me how little people care when an ambulance or fire truck is coming down the road as well. The second I hear it I start to pull over and stop, or if I'm on a bicycle I'll just completely get off the road and hop up on the sidewalk, but 95% of people just keep on driving until the vehicle is behind them and honking, especially at redlights. How do people assume that their own time is so valuable that they'll get out of a fire trucks way when they're good and ready?? That has to account for a lot of the intersection incidents(not saying that's what happened here) but I guaruntee you I wouldn't be going through an intersection if I heard a siren coming and wasn't able to tell where from, but most people assume if they can't see it, it's not their problem.
and yeah, people with road rage rarely make it anywhere faster. I deal with it constantly since I just bicycle back and forth to work downtown. People get so annoyed that in in the lane they want, they'll fly past me within inches of my elbow and speed down the road. 80% of the time I blow right past them at the next redlight, and they're stuck in traffic being just as slow and frustraited. When I'm in a car I never drive aggressively, and it may take me a minute or two longer to get where I'm going, but I at least know my chances of hurting/hitting someone are slim compaired to the rest of the general public.
Say you're a lane splitter or Constant Lane Weaver. Not in stopped traffic but in traffic that is actually moving at various speeds. One click ahead is out of sight, right? BUT, how long does it take go a click? That's the time you saved.
At 100 kph that's around 30 seconds. Pull up on the side of the road or at a gas station and those people you passed way back there who were so far back you couldn't see them, will be passed you in a little over 30 seconds.
Wanna get there sooner? Leave earlier :thumb:
I recall sitting way back in line in stopped traffic waiting for the lights to change. I knew these traffic signals. We'd sit through two changes before we were close enough to get through. The lights changed. Obviously the cars way way up front weren't moving away fast enough for the woman next to me. She started gesturing her hands at them to get a move on. Later in the same day, while sitting in the parking lot the road had become, I heard a noise, like someone yelling. Looking around saw no-one on the sidewalk having issues with someone else and all looked normal. Again the noise a minute or so later. Again, nothing to see. A few more times this yelling and always nothing to see. Until, right next to me the guy screams out "F*#K" and then slaps the side of his car - obvious completely and utterly frustrated and fuming at the traffic jam - and I watched him repeat this as his lane crept forward.
These two incidents made me realize, road frustration annoyance anger and rage stem from one simple thing... you not being Allowed to do what you want to do by circumstances beyond your control. Accepting this provides calm - why get upset at things you cannot control, right? It won't change the outcome.
Guy in front won't get out your way. Don't give him your Energy. Getting hot and bothered and eventually roaring past will save you stuff all time anyway. Just chalk it up on your daily idiot tally board. Life's too precious to spend time in high risk actions for little/no benefit.
Michael
I used to pull over on the side of the road and stop when ems/fire were passing but now I just slow down and make sure I'm not in their way.
I talked to an ambulance driver and he said he hated it when everyone would just stop because sometimes they would block him from going where he was trying to go.
According to the guy I talked to he prefers that everyone just clears a lane so he can get by but not necessarily stop, especially near intersections.
Quote from: dohabee on August 27, 2009, 06:47:54 PM
I used to pull over on the side of the road and stop when ems/fire were passing but now I just slow down and make sure I'm not in their way.
I talked to an ambulance driver and he said he hated it when everyone would just stop because sometimes they would block him from going where he was trying to go.
According to the guy I talked to he prefers that everyone just clears a lane so he can get by but not necessarily stop, especially near intersections.
That's great that the moving cars aren't blocking him from getting into the driveway...too bad when he tries to turn his ambulance into that "clear" driveway he has to get broadsided by the moving cars that are in his blind spot. Your friend isn't correct.
It's easy
1. emergency vehicle drives in left lane.
2. cars pull right and stop.
That's how it's done...period. If a car is blocking a driveway a little chirp of the siren or blip of the horn will get them to move.
It bothers me that your friend would tell you this. He knows what he should be doing. He is putting both his ambulance and the general public in danger by making up his own rules.
I think that's why he said to slow down but not stop, that way you aren't going so fast that you broadside anybody but you also don't end up blocking anything.
I could see the danger of moving over without slowing down but I don't think there is any danger if you are moving a lot slower than the ambulance.
I'm not trying to start a fight about it, that's just the only thing I have been told by an actual ambulance driver.
Unless you are also an emt, in which case I now have conflicting information and will have to flip a coin to decide what to do each time.
I am a career firefighter. I am a paramedic. I am licensed to operate emergency vehicles both by my department and the state. I operate these vehicles safely and professionally daily. I have done this in a heavily populated urban setting for 10+ years. I have responded to a few thousand (no exaggeration) emergency calls while operating with lights and sirens. I stay current and have read the studies, including the one mary mentioned. I have a perfect safety record. I know what I'm talking about.
Having said that, when an emergency vehicle coming from the left traffic lane makes a right into a driveway it has to cross the right lane to get there. Thru the entire turn the right lane traffic is completely in the blind spot of the emergency vehicle. They cannot see if the traffic acknowledges the turn, or if the traffic has stopped to allow them to cross. It is a common problem. People don't realize the emergency vehicle is turning across their lane until it's too late. Your buddy's advice puts me, him, my crew, and other drivers in danger.
Your buddy is wrong. If he's counting on people to acknowledge his turn every time, he'll soon find out how wrong he is.
Flip that coin...
hmm.. you make a valid point sir.
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter or magazine.
Sorry if I came off as a know it all (or worse). It's kind of my pet peeve.
I know the problem in Central Florida it seems as if people seriously don't know what to do. Some people go left some right it is a complete Cluster Fluc that you can't get through. On the speeding part while I was volunteering with Polk County EMS I rode with this one EMT that had a serious lead foot. In the middle of a call I had to make my way up front because he was driving so fast that when he would take a turn I'd fly across the rig once I banged my head. At the end of that shift I was like thank God I survived that shift. To my suprise the next day the same EMT was driving the same area I had yelled at him about but that day it had rained. He took the turn and rolled the rig. He was killed the partner and the patient had to be Life Flighted out. What a wake up call.
I stopped driving the rig after my AICD implant because if my device fired while driving and I hurt my partner or a patient. I don't think I could live with myself. So, for another three years I just stayed in the back most other EMTs respected my choice others well just driving a rig is not as fun as working on patients!
But yeah as soon as red lights and sirens are seen or heard you are supposed to get over to the far right and stop especially at an intersection that way if the rig has to turn right he doesn't have to worry about you slowly coming out. If :police: see you not yielding to an emergency vehicle you can be ticketed!
Mary
I've never driven and ambulance or firetruck(and never will as I'm not an EMT or firefighter), so I can't say what's easiest for them, but in reference to people moving over and slowing down and not being a threat.... that makes no sense at all. Even if they stay out of the ambulances way, they're still going to hurt somebody else. Even if you're moving slow and in the right lane, how are you supposed to watch the traffic infront of you, and the fire truck at the same time to know if he wants to be where you're at? A little easier if the truck is coming from infront of you, but impossible to watch infront of you and behind you at the same time. You can slow down and think you're doing enough for the firetruck, but when you rear end someone in front of you, scrape the side of a parked car, or run over someone on a bicycle because you're now pulled to the right and going 10mph in the bike lane, which you consider slow, but someone standing on the road without a steel cage around them just considers painful, especially if you're one of the people driving around in a navagator/excursion because it makes YOU feel safer.