I don't know if the clutch is at fault but it feels that way. Takes off normally but once I get up to 3500-4000 revs it feels like the bike jsut went (almost )into neutral. I can rev it really high very easily and the acceleration is very slight over 4000rpm. And of course I just did a clutch adjustment so I know something I did has something to do with it. Any ideas.. anybody know what's going on here? Thanks.
was the clutch adjsutment all you did? did you change the oil?
Is it making a whining sound? is it worse uphill? if so the clutch plate is probably cream-crackered. It's a new one. I've never done one on a bike but I don't think they cost that much, I've done a small car and that was fairly straightforeword.
Obviously only consider a new plate after "correcting" the adjustment, what did you do and more to the point why? It was the fact that you felt the need to adjust that made me thing the plate might be knackered.
what kind of oil are you using? using modern "energy conserving" car oil will frequently cause the clutch to slip at higher rpms. try changing your oil and using a motorcycle specific oil.
The bike in question has only 1900 miles on it. THe reason why I adjusted it was because there was a wee bit more than 4mm play at the lever. So, I went through the procedure step by step in the Clymer. When it was all done I had maybe 1mm of play. Hehe.. I know it wasn't in specs but it felt nice and tight. Ends up it was too tight SO I redid it for a little more play as soon as I drove a mile. I managed to get some play in the cable but maybe I have to open the clutch mechanism adjustment door and do the "then back the screw out1/4-1/2 turn..." thing. And yes, I changed the oil with EXL 10-40 motorcycle oil. Low speed take off is torquey enough to pop a wheelie if I wanted to but once I get to 4000rpm the revs just wanna sky rocket without the bike accelerating. Like it slips at med-hi speed.
Motorcycle oils do not have anything different in them than car oils, and vica versa. The % of additives of both types all fall in the same ranges also. Motorcycle oils won't stop a clutch from slipping, and car oils won't make it slip.
The energy conserving oils are just pretty low viscosity for use in a transmission with all the high pressure shearing action.
If you adjsuted the clutch and now it slips, you did it wrong.
Quote from: KevinCMotorcycle oils do not have anything different in them than car oils, and vica versa. The % of additives of both types all fall in the same ranges also. Motorcycle oils won't stop a clutch from slipping, and car oils won't make it slip.
The energy conserving oils are just pretty low viscosity for use in a transmission with all the high pressure shearing action.
you can have different weight "enrgy conserving" oils just like any other oil, and you can definitely get it in 10w-40. "energy conserving" has nothing to do with viscosity, it has to do with whether or not the oil can pass an API mileage test. fact is, "energy conserving" oils generally (not all) have additional additives to reduce friction, thus gaining mileage in a car. those same additives can lower the reduce the friction in the clutch enough to where it starts slipping. essentially the oil is too slippery.
beyond that, modern API SL rated automobile oils have reduced antiwear additives to protect the car's catalytic converter. those antiwear additives are very important to a high reving motorcycle. motorcycle oils have much higher levels of antiwear additives than the SL rating allows, which is why motorcycles generally are only rated up to API SH or SG. However, the Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (JASO) has developed a standard designed for motorcycles. their currect standard for our oil is JASO MA.
interestingly enough, diesel oils or fleet oils generally make excellent motorcycle oils. shell rotella especially has a strong following. the oils are generally very high quality, have very powerful antiwear and detergent packages, and are not "energy conserving". however, it's best to use it in cooler running engines, like watercooleds with lower rev limits, for example, the sv650 or ducati monsters.
Did you see the Sport Rider analysis of the different oils by an independent lab? There wasn't anything in the car oils that wasn't in the bike oils, and nothing in the car oils to "protect catalytic converters". The supposed motorcycle oils had nothing the car oils didn't, and fell well within the range of car oils on all additives.
All this oil whooey is just that. Synthetics are probably the best, but anything is fine if you change it regularly.
there isn't anything added to the oils to protect catalytic converters, there's actually stuff taken out, like antiwear additives.
like i said, i'm talking in generalities, but it's rather widely accepted that energy conserving oils don't belong in motorcycles and neither do SL rated oils. a good guy to talk about this with andy auger over at //svrider.com.
Yea JASO-MA Ma arse...
I'd like to see an oil that is JASO-MA but not SJ or SH or whatever is the latest alphabet. They all specify maximum PPM or % of additives...Put in very little additives and its OK with everyone. I'd like to see minimum additive % pr PPM, and I'd like to see an oil that is up to that service specification only. Diesel oils are a bit better cos they go waaaay under in car oils... like put in 2ppm of zinc when for API SJ you can have up to 12ppm... Diesel oils are closer to 12ppm cos their target market is very serious and knowledgeable. Bike oil is car oil in a lovely new bottle. Lots of research and technology went into that... they must have asked a million bikers what bottle will they like most and spend $5 a quart for in dino oil.
Cool.
Srinath.
So, Scott, how tight did you go on the clutch adjuster screw down there in the case? Did you hold the screw in place with a screwdriver while you tightened the nut? If not, you may have over tightened that screw. I've done that, but that's also why there are two more adjusters to help fine adjust the freeplay. I have about 1mm of play with the handlebars at full-lock left.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: zoltanthere isn't anything added to the oils to protect catalytic converters, there's actually stuff taken out, like antiwear additives.
The only additive change I can see is that the maximum phosphrous level was reduced from 0.12% to 0.10%. None of the auto or motorcycle oils that were analyzed are anywhere near that limit. The fact that Castrol and Mobil motorcycle formulations are different than their auto oils, and they still didn't see necessary to add anywhere near the limit of phosphrous, indicates to me that adding tons of phosphorous doesn't help in motorcycles anyway.
The only "friction mdifier" that any of the oils seem to have is moly. Honda's "moly free" motorcycle oil HP4, actually had one of the higher concentrations of moly! Torco oils had a ton of moly - they seem to be a "racing" oil for bikes and cars. Anyway, the auto oils didn't have anymore moly than the bike oils, and many auto oils were at 0% moly.
Righto Scratch.. it was the adjusting screw. I took it for a test ride today and of course it did the same thing it did last night: revving and slipping at med to high speed. I just played around with the adjusting screw with the little plate off until it was normal. It seems a tiny 1/8 of a turn can change everything. The touchiness of it was kind of surprising. But yeah, that was it. I won't be making that mistake. Don't underestimate that little screw folks and thanks for the replies.
A word about oil. There's a big debate about it. I use MC oil because I didn't want to be a guinea pig by trying to save a few bucks so I stuck with MC oil. Until one day this summer. The MC store was closed and I already drained out the old stuff thinking I had plenty of quarts of oil laying around. Ends up I didn't so what the hell.. I put in auto oil. Difference? Not a bit. It has no effect on anything at all. No slipping, nothing. And it costs a lot less too. I know a guys with high powered bikes and wet clutches, we're talking 160-200hp, not out pitiful 40-50 on the GS500. Well, they slip a bit when pushed hard with auto oil. Put it this way, auto oil and the GS clutch is like a car slamming on the brakes from only 3mph: no slip at all. Superbikes are like a car doing 20mph and slamming on the brakes: screech! 50hp just aint enough to make the GS clutch slip at all. So what do I put in my GS500? Hehe,.. MC oil even if it costs more because #1 I'm anal, #2: I could be wrong. :?