I'm often asked what would be a good motorcycle to start on. Of course I always mention the GS, but I often feel like there may be more modern alternatives that are as good or better esp. considering the GS is essentially 20 years old. I'm not one of those people who think that starting on a 600cc supersport (or larger) is a good idea, but I do think that an SV650 is OK - meaning displacement isn't the only factor. So what do you think are good, modern (EFI, digital speedo, water cooled, etc...) beginner bikes?
The gladius looks like it would be a pretty good beginner bike. The ninja 250s LOOK new, but I assume they're still not water cooled, fuel injected, or have a digital speedometer. Other than that, I don't really think there are too many. Unless it's someone with money to spend, I usually have a hard time recommending new bikes as beginner bikes anyway. Who wants to spend a minumum of $4000 on something you're going to drop and scratch, and just try to resell in 4 months when you think you've passed the beginner stage, and unless they pay cash, they're going to have to get full coverage on it.
Are they specifically looking for something sporty? Cruisers have lower seat heights, and a dual sport can take a bit of abuse. Both are good characteristics for beginner bikes, as well as the cheaper insurance.
Well this is just a general thing - I get asked a lot for some reason :dunno_white: . It wouldn't have to be new per se, but certainly there must be something built in the last 10 years with at least a few of these components. I would have no problem recommending a cruiser or dual sport, as long as its quality and will be able to be ridden past the first year (sorta like the GS for most people :) ).
Also I won't recommend the new Ninja 250 because its still mostly old tech, the only thing that really changed was the fairing and instrument cluster (afaik).
Gladius is garbage and ghey ...
I tell them they want least modern as possible ... and they are stupid for asking for FI or BS.
I dont get a lot of repeat customers ...
Cool.
Buddha.
Whatever the starter bike, buy a USED one. Let someone else put several scrapes on it and take the depreciation. I have never bought a new bike and I'm 52! I'm also cheap...
A Ninja 250 is water-cooled, and a 4 valve/cylinder engine. It's not EFI, but not many bikes are, especially at that price point. It is a GREAT starter bike, especially with new (stiffer) fork springs installed. I ride with a friend who has one. He weighs about 200, and he keeps up with my 500 on the highway with little problem.
IMHO, a good starter bike will have less than 40HP and handle well. Back in MY day (spoken in a shaky old man voice), a starter bike was a Honda 70 or Suzuki 125. You can get hurt on those, too, but not as easily as on a bike with much more HP.
Quote from: trumpetguy on September 03, 2009, 07:09:11 PM
Whatever the starter bike, buy a USED one. Let someone else put several scrapes on it and take the depreciation. I have never bought a new bike and I'm 52! I'm also cheap...
A Ninja 250 is water-cooled, and a 4 valve/cylinder engine. It's not EFI, but not many bikes are, especially at that price point. It is a GREAT starter bike, especially with new (stiffer) fork springs installed. I ride with a friend who has one. He weighs about 200, and he keeps up with my 500 on the highway with little problem.
IMHO, a good starter bike will have less than 40HP and handle well. Back in MY day (spoken in a shaky old man voice), a starter bike was a Honda 70 or Suzuki 125. You can get hurt on those, too, but not as easily as on a bike with much more HP.
+1 for old bikes, anda the ninjer double buck fitty
i'm not sure, but i think their carbs are basicly a very tiny straw slammed through a medium size gord, which drinks (ok, sips, politely) from the gas tank.
simple = ftw
starter bike = you don't care if it sets itself on fire on the third bump of the starter cause you have nothing in it
There are two philosophies on starter bikes. The good philosophy is to spend $1,500-$2,000 cash on a used bike with 50 HP or less and ride it for 3000+ miles while working on it yourself so that you learn bike maintenance and proper rider technique. The bad philosophy, favored by the motorcycle industry (bike producers, dealerships and hence magazines), is to finance $7,000-$10,000 for a 65-100 HP new bike with lots of plastic, and ride it until you crash it or finance a bigger bike.
Back to the question at hand, the Ninja 250, Ninja 500, and GS500 are the only starter street bikes still in production.
Yeah, that's right, I used to have a 250 and it was definitely water cooled, forgot about that.
I didn't keep that as my main recommendation because it's not what you said you wanted for an answer. Aside from that, it's probably still my top pick for someone who's really a beginner. I had one and I loved it. I could tear down back roads, or atleast thought I could because it was my first sportbike, it would top out at 110-115 according to the speedometer, handled great on the highway, started easy enough in cold weather. It's an all around good bike, and I consider the fact that the engine hasn't been updated in 20 years to be a good thing on a bike like that, same with the GS.
The downside, is that it has cheap parts, and after one year of riding it, I needed $300 in new parts before it would pass inspection, and considering I was new, that meant I also got suckered into paying $700 to have them installed. I didn't have any experienced motorcycle friends at the time watching over me to help me out there. The other downside is that I bought it new, and I followed the break in period, so that first ride when I pulled out of the parking lot, started to take off, looked down at the tach, and saw I was already over the recommended rpm and just remember thinking "WTF?!!?", which was followed by a week straight of just cruising around back roads going no faster than 35mph, then a couple days of 55mph until I hit the 100mile mark.
If you have a new rider who's making demands for fuel injection and water cooled, and can't be talked out of it, he's probably a lost cause for a new gsxr anyway, because that's what he's getting at. I welcome carbs and air cooled motors based off of my hatred for electrical systems. I've been looking for a bike to ride around town, and i've been looking for something like a cb125 just so I don't have to deal with some of those things. I understand the interest in modern features in a sportbike, but my idea bike would still have carbs, so I can fix it if it breaks. I wouldn't mind a bike with fuel injection, but it would have to be in good enough shape that nothing's gonna go wrong with it in the near future, and of course clean bikes cost way more than ones that just need a little work.
I guess I'll keep recommending the GS and little Ninjas then. I don't know anyone in particular - but I get asked a lot by strangers who are interested in riding. And while I love the GS, I feel a little guilty pushing it when I know what kind of characteristics it has (garbage suspension, takes forever to warm up (without a rejet), frequent valve checks, etc...) and I don't think that most of the people (men, women and kids) who ask me are generally going to be the hands-on type of maintenance people (thus forcing them to spend $$$ on easy fixes on what is a low end bike). A lot of people also don't have the (and I hesitate to say this) right attitude for the GS, and I don't want them to have to spend the money on something they will dump in a week or month (whether they originally get new or used) for something bigger.
I appreciate all the input thus far and really have no qualms with any of it - but you give that advice to people these days and most of them think you're some sort of idiot. Case in point, I was at the grocery store yesterday and one of the produce people came up to me and asked what kind of bike I had. I said GS500, she said that her husband has a 'busa. I say, its a nice bike, but its a little fast for my tastes (esp. for where we live). She kindof looked at me like I was one of the dumbest people she had met in her life. Oh well, we had a nice conversation about learning to ride (where I pimped the MSF course) and what would be good starter bikes. That was what prompted me to start the topic. A few months ago a hospital tech stopped me in a hospital parking garage asking me about what would be good bikes to get as a new rider. I said GS500, EX500, SV650 or if you really want new, GSX650F, would all probably be sensible choices, the last two if you are a sensible person. Those seem like the best out of whats out there right now in lower powered, mistake (relatively) friendly bikes, plus maybe a Honda 500.
GS and ninja are the only beginner sport bikes.
On the whole kit and kaboodle list of beginner bikes, these wont even make the top 10 amongst bikes still in production, and will certainly not make the to 25 if you add in out of production.
BTW a starter bike has to be naked, and IMHO, neither the ninja 250 nor the GS500 F make that list. Essentially the market and factories have shafted the beginners royally when they beginners want sporty bikes. That is a huge indication of how much they care.
BTW Buell Blast for all its idiotic crappiness was the one and only supporter of beginners till 2010. However they have decided to shaft us as well.
Cruisers OTOH, the list is long, deep and getting longer and deeper. Why didn't suzuki just slap the GS motor in a GZ250 or a savage chassis and call it a cruiser for beginners. Of course the savage and the GZ are going great, so they dont need to muddle up that market.
Bandit 600/1200 motor in a intruder frame also comes to mind ... of course they have decided that these wont sell ... of course the idiotic B king will sell ... :cookoo:
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: trumpetguy on September 03, 2009, 07:09:11 PM
Whatever the starter bike, buy a USED one. Let someone else put several scrapes on it and take the depreciation. I have never bought a new bike and I'm 52! I'm also cheap...
A Ninja 250 is water-cooled, and a 4 valve/cylinder engine. It's not EFI, but not many bikes are, especially at that price point. It is a GREAT starter bike, especially with new (stiffer) fork springs installed. I ride with a friend who has one. He weighs about 200, and he keeps up with my 500 on the highway with little problem.
IMHO, a good starter bike will have less than 40HP and handle well. Back in MY day (spoken in a shaky old man voice), a starter bike was a Honda 70 or Suzuki 125. You can get hurt on those, too, but not as easily as on a bike with much more HP.
Ill be damned a cheap liberal. what are the odds. JK tg, but +1 to all that youve said.
cheap and nasty as so when you drop it you wont cry. cheap bike goes down you replace signals. MODERN bike goes down and $$$$$$$
Even if you get a nice new shiny bike, and have the ability to not crash it, you're still not going to have any fun because you're just going to be worried about scratching it. I've owned plenty of new shiny things that would not have been destroyed, and I just sold them because it's too much mental work.
OK... I guess many people are not aware of the difference between MODERN and NEW. Modern could be anything that was designed/engineered after... lets say 1995. I said nothing about new... if people want to buy new that is their prerogative, I usually recommend used so they can save some $$, but I don't feel that comfortable recommending bikes that were designed in 1974 and were manufactured until 1988 (just for example). I know that there are plenty of these on the road, and they are great... but are they great because they are solid and reliable or because you grew up with them and happen to have the mechanical skill to fix their flaws? I think you'd be hard pressed to name a bike from the 70s and 80s that had such high quality components (and isn't now regarded as a collectors item) that similar bikes from 95 onward don't completely blow out of the water. I'll gladly start a thread about why new bikes are such a bad idea, and everyone can pile on in there if you want, but I'm trying to find advice for people who want to start riding.
Buddha - I don't know anything about the chopper/cruiser world, frankly I'm not interested in those bikes at all, so if you have some recommendations I'll gladly take them and pass them along in the future.
there seem to be more choices for folks that want a modern beginner cruiser compared to a modern beginner sportbike.
IMHO modern = electronic ignition.
I'd say 1982-83 somewhere in there.
1995 was not a year that served as any landmark really.
FI came on GSXR's in 99 was it, TL 1000 in 97 was FI, 91/92 was when upside down forks came up, so 95 is just arbitrary.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: NF11624 on September 05, 2009, 10:22:16 AM
OK... I guess many people are not aware of the difference between MODERN and NEW. Modern could be anything that was designed/engineered after... lets say 1995.
Well that's not fair. Modern is a completely subjective term, especially with sportbikes. Technology moves so fast, that plenty of people wouldn't consider anything older than 2005 to be modern. I think I'm pretty inline with your cut off point though, I'd consider a cbr900rr(1992) modern, cbr f4(1999), 1997 gsxr600/750, love that R6 that came out around 98. Kawasaki can't keep up with anything. They come out with a bike and don't upgrade it again for 10 years, although that zx7r is one of my all time favorite bikes, and I'm pretty sure they're going to destroy it if they ever try to update it. The only one of their newer bikes I like is a 03-04 636.
I'm sure that doesn't help you AT ALL, it's just such a tough question. Some people are sincere about learning, and are cool with a 1983 dual sport bike I was, others thinking the last years model gsxr600 is the least they'd take. You pretty much have to find out the least threatening bike someone would consider riding, and convince them to buy that. If you can talk them into buying a 1978 cb125, you're only going to be doing them a huge favor in the long run.
me personally, as a beginning rider with no bike as of yet, i'm looking for something that i'll ride more often then i have to wrench on it. i don't want to spend all my riding time wrenching to get the bike rideable. maybe i'm weird like that. don't get me wrong, i'm somewhat mechanically inclinded and have no problems picking up a wrench if need be. (most of my mechanical experience comes with cars however). and from a monetary standpoint, if you're spending more to upkeep the vehicle than it is worth(bike or car) then it doesn't make sense to me.
95 being the cutoff was completely arbitrary, I'm trying to get advice about what models to recommend, and all I get are 'buy used', 'new sucks', 'I'll never buy new'; I get that and I think thats fine. But people who don't want to work on their bikes a lot and are new to riding don't know whats good and bad, and there are too many places on the net that will tell you a 'busa is a great starter (and you can find those used too :flipoff:). I honestly wouldn't ride something that was older than I am as a starter motorcycle - because there is too much work to make something that old run right.
Electric ignition is nice, but manufacturing processes have progressed a lot since the 80s, so I'm hoping for something fairly new (90s designed or later) with good components (IE won't require a ton of maintenance). Again, any type of motorcycle would be fine - Cruiser, Chopper, Sportbike, Maxi-scooter, or whatever. If its a good place to start, then please mention it.
My XS650 was less work to run like a beast than most GS'es I came across before or since.
My KZ440 came to me running like a song.
Very rock reliable both of em. Though GS aint far behind.
Cool.
Buddha.
i think i understand where the OP is coming from and for the most part, agree with them. however, being a new rider, i'm not swayed bye the, "buy used, not new cuz you'll just drop it anyway" comments. personally, i'm looking at new models. flame away if you want. but like i said, i don't want to have to wrench on my daily rider all that much. i personally think that the best way to avoid that is to buy new.
Alright, so if it's someone who can be talked into buying used, aside from the already mentioned ex250, ex500, and gs500, all of which can be found with low miles from people who used them to learn how to ride, I'd say any standard would be good, specifically because your chances of getting a bike in good condition are much better. It's much more common for sportbikes to be abused, so if you're looking for something that isn't going to need worked on right from the start, I think an sv650, honda 599(did they sell those in the US???) and a yamaha fz6 would all be a good choice. Still fun bikes you could hold onto for a while, but the chances of getting an engine that was wheelied for miles at a time, and run out at the redline for an hour are much better.
ZZR250
GPX250
CBR250
Intruder250
Virago 250
Hyosung 250
VTR250
None of those are available in US steve o ... Yea VTR250 and virago 250 OK fine ...
My list is somewhat like this, 87-90 virago 535, Early vulcan 500 and 454, Rebel 450, savage 650/S40, shadow 500/600, and very much most of the 500 if twin and 650 if single displacement bikes of old. I like the old CM/CB 400's, KZ 400/440, XS400, GS450 etc ...
Cool.
Buddha.
Never rode one but what about the TU250? "Beginner" can cover a wide range of potential. The majority of new riders I've encountered in 40+ years of riding would not have faired well on a 50+ hp bike. On the other hand, a few could have started on a modern SS with little or no problem. It really depends on the individual and the level of teaching skills they will have available. I learned on a 50cc street bike, rural backroads and little or no knowlegable instruction. I then did considerable offroad riding on small displacement bikes before moving up to a 175cc street bike. Just my opinion, but baby steps allow for a more complete understanding of the physics of motorcycle riding.
jserio, my comment about buying used was MORE than just "it will get dropped anyway." I buy used because it's financially smart. You don't have to buy a rat bike -- buy a one year old bike if you want.
My point is this: if you buy at the right price, you can probably sell it for what you have in it when you are ready to upgrade. TOTALLY impossible if you buy new. I have put 16,000 miles on my 1998 GS500E which I bought for $1300 in 2005. I could probably get all my money back today. I have done very little wrenching on it, all things considered. Cost per mile if I got all my money back is pretty low - just gas, oil, tires, and supplies.
Try that with ANY new bike.
And Yama, what's so funny about a cheap liberal? :nono: :D :nono: Look at the deficit under Cheney/Bush, GHW Bush or Reagan and tell me ALL about it... Gotta have some liberals to balance the books from time to time. :thumb: That will certainly be harder in a recession.
i see your point TG. i'll keep that in mind. i've just gotten really crappy used vehicles so i'd like to avoid the same results with a bike.
That's true, but I've also bought really crappy new vehicles. Just make sure it's japanese and you'll survive
i believe without a doubt that the gs is by far the best starter bike if you are going for standard of sport bikes. if you want a cruiser then the hog 883 or the 250 shadow will do.
Quote from: trumpetguy on September 06, 2009, 09:15:42 AM
jserio, my comment about buying used was MORE than just "it will get dropped anyway." I buy used because it's financially smart. You don't have to buy a rat bike -- buy a one year old bike if you want.
My point is this: if you buy at the right price, you can probably sell it for what you have in it when you are ready to upgrade. TOTALLY impossible if you buy new. I have put 16,000 miles on my 1998 GS500E which I bought for $1300 in 2005. I could probably get all my money back today. I have done very little wrenching on it, all things considered. Cost per mile if I got all my money back is pretty low - just gas, oil, tires, and supplies.
Try that with ANY new bike.
And Yama, what's so funny about a cheap liberal? :nono: :D :nono: Look at the deficit under Cheney/Bush, GHW Bush or Reagan and tell me ALL about it... Gotta have some liberals to balance the books from time to time. :thumb: That will certainly be harder in a recession.
as well as teh deficit under obama, or clinton TG. lol, gotta have a friendly jab session once in a while :cheers:, but yeah your comment. buying used, LET someone else take the hit on depreciation , cauuse as soon as it leaves the showroom, value tanks a fair bit , plus buying used. usually you can sell even OR AT PROFIT
Obama received a big "stimulus already in progress" ... as well as a truly crashing economy. Anything but a continuation would have been disaster. Of course he actively was from that same school of thought, stimulate bigger, stimulate more and stimulate better ... in fact I am thinking of marketing a line of dildo's with that same slogan.
Bush was too short sighted and too much in bed with "big business and big banks" to ever see this comming and its seeds were sown in 2001/2002 when we had recession #1 of bush's term.
Clinton triggered that resession of 01 as well as set things in motion when he made banking and energy deregulation in 96-98.
Equal blame here IMHO and Obama doesn't get any blame yet - ducking for cover behind these crooked case guards ... however Obama is of the wrong philosophy and will definetly make the same mistakes as the rest of them.
Now WTF is this doing in the starter motorcycles thread.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on September 08, 2009, 06:15:48 AM
Now WTF is this doing in the starter motorcycles thread.
Cool.
Buddha.
Good question :dunno_white:
Thanks for all the input - regardless of topic. As for now I will continue pimping the GS, EX250 and EX500, add in the 250 and 500 cruisers as well as the dual sports mentioned here.
i think as far as cruisers go one could go up to 900-1200cc and still be ok depending on the rider and the specific bike. i'm a new rider and i took a demo ride on a 1200 sportster not long ago and felt fine on the bike. :dunno_white:
At some point, though, you'll get over confident and twist the throttle. On a higher HP bike, you're in way over your head. Just sayin'...
i'm confused TG, are you saying my estimated CC range for cruisers is off for a beginner? :dunno_white:
I agree a cruiser of 900 to 1200 is too big for a new rider but thats just an opinion. Big bikes are hard to handle due to the weight of the bike and also the power. At some point you have to turn that tank round corners. Will not even go there with a big cruiser if you drop it picking it up again.
Cold tyres + cold road + big bike + New rider (inexperienced rider) = Organ warmer for transplant patient.
Again thats just my opinion
Do larger displacement cruisers(900cc+) actually have any more HP than a 250 cruiser? I always assumed the extra HP was just there to make it louder.
I would assume so (theres no replacement for displacement as they say). I was out riding one day and there was a guy on a big Harley in front of me, his acceleration was very good on the straightaways - combine that with a new riders lack of cornering skill and you have a the ingredients of a recipe for disaster.
when i first started looking at bikes this was the first website i went to...
http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/reviews/beginner_motorcycles (http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/reviews/beginner_motorcycles)
i didn't really nail the throttle on the 1200 sportster i demoed but i never felt over my head. cornered just fine without any issue. and i'm a new rider. (only real riding i'd done before my demo ride was my safety course. i liked the low seat height, made me feel a bit more confident with stops/starts. granted, i'm a new rider and i was only on this bike about 10 miles or so. i've sat on several 900cc bikes(cruisers) that were way heavier feeling than that 1200 sportie. :dunno_white:
AFAIK, the Sportster is the sportiest (IE best handling) of the HD models. Also, the Sportster 883 is roughly equivalent to the GS in terms of performance (engine-wise, so I've heard) - take that for what its worth. I think the big, heavy cruisers are where the problems would be - those things can really take off on the straights. There's a reason "You'll greet every straightaway with a smile" is the HD slogan :icon_rolleyes:
In all fairness though, you're probably 100x more knowledgeable than most newbies just from hanging around here :thumb:
Quote from: jserio on September 09, 2009, 05:01:50 PM
i didn't really nail the throttle on the 1200 sportster i demoed but i never felt over my head. cornered just fine without any issue. and i'm a new rider. (only real riding i'd done before my demo ride was my safety course. i liked the low seat height, made me feel a bit more confident with stops/starts. granted, i'm a new rider and i was only on this bike about 10 miles or so. i've sat on several 900cc bikes(cruisers) that were way heavier feeling than that 1200 sportie. :dunno_white:
Jserio - screw that sportster, buy my savage chopper.
You get a chopper that will be lighter than the sportster, be faster to accelerate and brake than it and run better for longer with less $ than the sportster.
And its a chopper. With a 43mm fork and 21 inch wheel.
The Jap crap has gone from normal, to fat, to cartoonishly obese ... much like the average american. HD OTOH has stayed as fat as ever ... but not the sportster except for a few years of that fat bob type tank ... 2003 was it. I think so.
Cool.
Buddha.
i think my age has a lot to do with my opinions as far as a bike is concerned. had i ran out and bought a bike when i was 18 like i wanted to, i doubt it would have had a happy ending. i'll be 28 this year. and honestly, i don't care about how fast the bike can go. i just want something to cruise around on that looks halfway decent and i don't have to constantly wrench on to keep riding it.
Quote from: jserio on September 08, 2009, 10:36:51 PM
i'm confused TG, are you saying my estimated CC range for cruisers is off for a beginner? :dunno_white:
Absolutely. Pussyfooting around on a test ride is nothing compared to what you will get into without knowing it when you get a little confidence. A 250 or slow 500 would be much better for you until you have a year or two under your belt.
Quote from: tt_four on September 09, 2009, 09:35:04 AM
Do larger displacement cruisers(900cc+) actually have any more HP than a 250 cruiser? I always assumed the extra HP was just there to make it louder.
If this was a serious comment, please slap your head and say DOH. If it was a joke, you are a funny guy!
my demo ride took us through the country surrounding the dealership and then back through the city. (it was longer because i got separated from the group for a bit) the only real problem i had was with the shifter. my boot wouldn't fit under it very well. but all in all, i had a good time. i'd gladly do it again. can't wait till i got the spare dough to drop on a bike. :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: homeyjosey on September 09, 2009, 11:54:28 AM
when i first started looking at bikes this was the first website i went to...
http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/reviews/beginner_motorcycles (http://www.bestbeginnermotorcycles.com/reviews/beginner_motorcycles)
www.stuntlife.com/ is another good one, they're practically the same site.... :cheers:
haha wow how does this happen?
http://www.stuntlife.com/forums/2-stunt-discussion/263973-epic-fail.html
Ninja 650r would be a reasonable bike to start on these days used. I'll get flamed for this but a buell blast is decent, GS of course, CBR F2 wouldn't be too bad as long as its in good condition and cheap, Savage 650, DRZ-400, FZR 600, SV650, could all be managed by a responsible rider not looking to stunt and be idiots. If you're looking for something to bring the front end up by twisting your wrist, you're likely going to get it regardless. I wish I had started out almost on a bigger bike because i'm just tired of lacking the power that I wish I had. No, i'm not out doing track days like some of you but I really wish I had some more ponies a lot of days out riding the back hills here. My next will be an FZ6, SV1K, z1000, z750s, FZ1, or similar. I will no longer worry so much after riding a number of years on a GS and knowing what its capable of. I was scared of the horsepower of my little 500 at first but after a few weeks, I could comfortably ride it. Now 3 years later, I am craving a bit more than I have. I would start out on something that you can go COMFORTABLY a longer distance on than the GS.
Get a shiny new gixxer 1000 be a man thats a real starter bike!
Quote from: bettingpython on September 15, 2009, 01:03:50 PM
Get a shiny new gixxer 1000 be a man thats a real starter bike!
You're a funny guy BP! I mean that! :cheers:
Quote from: trumpetguy on September 15, 2009, 09:39:19 PM
Quote from: bettingpython on September 15, 2009, 01:03:50 PM
Get a shiny new gixxer 1000 be a man thats a real starter bike!
You're a funny guy BP! I mean that! :cheers:
What I'm serious, just man up get the baddest liter bike of the bunch and start out on it. 99% of the time more throttle is the solution, the other 1% of the time it ends the suspense. I'm sick of pissy squids lately that post BS and then when one of their own goes out wads his crap up and dies they all want a in memory of memorial sticker and to post RIP all over the local forums and media outlets, yet don't accept responsibility for encouraging riding that way. In the most recent instance to piss me off more throttle did not end the suspense it was the solution. Mouth breathing retard that chose to tell the old fat slow guys who tried to help him FU and listen to the cool young guys gets splattered all over the highway. Sounds cruel and mean I know but suck it up thats life, I've actually gotten sick of trying to help people.
Now you want my honest answer STFU by a used GS500 or Ninja 250 and learn to ride, there is no such thing as a modern starter motorcycle and anyone who condones a modern 600 sportbike for a brand new rider should have their testicles chopped off because they obviously have more testosterone than brains. I have been riding 24 years to get to where I am at today.
i have rode both the ninja and the sv 650's...they are not really beginner bikes. both are torque monsters that will wheelie at ease and do 120 plus mps with 2 up.
Quote from: bettingpython on September 16, 2009, 07:46:24 AM
Now you want my honest answer STFU by a used GS500 or Ninja 250 and learn to ride, there is no such thing as a modern starter motorcycle and anyone who condones a modern 600 sportbike for a brand new rider should have their testicles chopped off because they obviously have more testosterone than brains. I have been riding 24 years to get to where I am at today.
+1000. Learn to ride well, THEN worry about a faster bike.
you can only safely use so much power on the street anyways. so anything else is just a waste of money IMO.
starter bike should be cheap and slow. surf craigslist and bring a buddy that rides or a mechanic to shop with. i guess you can buy used at a dealer, too. sometimes they throw in helmets and such.
if it's gotta be new:
TU250X
GZ250
GS500
Ninja 250
Ninja 500
Savage/S40
Hyosung 250's
Eliminator
Rebel
Nighthawk 250
Shadow 650/VLX
Triumph Scrambler
drz400
brammo enertia
buying a new bike as a first bike is really dumb though.
Quote from: jserio on September 18, 2009, 11:36:53 AM
you can only safely use so much power on the street anyways. so anything else is just a waste of money IMO.
Amen to that, and how much power is needed on the street? Depending on the weight of the bike, I would say the HP number is somewhere between 40 and 80.
Harley knows this. Even their big 1584cc engines only have about 65HP, and no one complains about it, do they? It sounds like 200HP, so no one cares that it only has 1/3 as much, and they are the most popular bikes on American roads today. I know, I know, the V-Rod is very powerful, but it's not selling well, despite the fact it's not Harley's most expensive model, is it?
Look at that, I didn't even know that Triumph was making another vintage remake. The thruxton was a good looking bike, as is the scrambler, but it's still a 900cc bike meant for semi off road use. I just hate the thought of someone paying close to $9,000 for a copy of something you could get on craigslist for less than $1000
Quote from: tt_four on September 18, 2009, 08:37:10 PM
Look at that, I didn't even know that Triumph was making another vintage remake. The thruxton was a good looking bike, as is the scrambler, but it's still a 900cc bike meant for semi off road use. I just hate the thought of someone paying close to $9,000 for a copy of something you could get on craigslist for less than $1000
Were you referring to their new giant 1600cc air-cooled vertical twin? Ya gotta understand the British. They are very nostalgic and loyal to their own stuff, especially the older guys. Sound familiar? Having said that, their product line has advanced much more than Harley. They offer much more variety than Harley and they make many modern motorcycles. Harley makes only one. Adding belt drive and fuel injection to a pushrod engine with a single-pin crank doesn't count. But that ancient design out-sells everything else, so who can blame them?
Nope, 865cc. http://www.triumph.co.uk/usa/2009_Scrambler_9861.aspx
Quote from: jserio on September 18, 2009, 11:36:53 AM
you can only safely use so much power on the street anyways. so anything else is just a waste of money IMO.
WRONG! you can only legally go so fast on the street. My only complaints about starter bikes is that as a rule they don't have enough get the hell out of danger immediately ability. When you have sufficient skill and proficiency to handle more bike there is absolutely no reason not to go bigger. I guess I haven't a different outlook on things at times.
Quote from: jserio on September 18, 2009, 11:36:53 AM
you can only safely use so much power on the street anyways. so anything else is just a waste of money IMO.
Yeah, first you've gotta count the fun/HP ratio. Some people look for different things in bikes, and while I can appriciate a bike with only 15hp, I can REALLY appriciate a bike with 120hp. If I put mine on a graph, I think they would run parallel until they hit 110hp, then slowdown, and I think I would peak somewhere around 130, with anything more than that being too much. I'm not a huge guy, so all power aside, some bigger bikes would just be too much for me to handle based on weight and size alone. As a commuter and someone who goes on a wide variety of joy rides, I like the idea of being able to acctually accelerate while I'm cruising on the highway in 5th or 6th gear, instead of dropping down to 2nd gear and sending my engine revving up to 10k rpm. If my preferred riding was going fast on twisty back roads, I'd be perfectly happy riding 50-65hp for the rest of my life, but just because accelerating on a straightaway doesn't take any skill, doesn't make it any less fun.
Bikes with higher hp usually have better components as well, so it's not like you're only paying for more power. You usually get better suspension, lighter frame/wheels, a nicer finish. All you have to do is look at the awful welding on my GSs subframe to see where they're cutting corners. You'll never see a gsxr this side of 1996 that looks like that.
and i think the "better parts" argument you just made is one of the reasons new riders like myself want something "modern" for a starter motorcycle. i learned to drive a stick in an '87 toyota(tercel i think) and it was a pos. it sucked. wouldn't ever shift right, power steering didn't work good etc. i hated that car. and honestly, i didn't really feel comfortable driving a stick until i bought a '96 talon. (one of my fav cars) and the difference was huge. the car was just put together so much better. it was newer. it was easier to use and learn with. i don't want my first bike that i own to be some pos that i have to fight with constantly to get it to run right etc. i believe that takes away the joy of riding and hurts the learning process. a good starter should be easy to use. well put together. easy to maintain. it should be "modern".