So in my Sunday night 'I don't want to go back to work tomorrow' procrastination, I was sitting on the couch at 11. Whatever movie I was watching ended, and the Son's of Anarchy came on next. I didn't care enough to actually watch it last week when it was originally on, but since it was neatly placed infront of me when I already didn't feel like moving, I just let it happen. It was pretty bad, but that's irrelavant here.
While I was watching it, I spent most of the time wondering why all of these guys are still riding around on Harleys. Not "why do people ride harleys?" because people like different bikes and I get that, but why is the modern day biker image still focused on Harleys? Also, When I saw biker gangs, I'm specifically referring to the "rough & tough biker" image that the show is focused around. I know there are gangs(clubs) that ride sportbikes, wearing half helmets leather vests, and have tattoos, but they still tend to be more light hearted than the people who want you to think they're out smashing bars and killing guys.
I get some of the smaller factors, none of which combine into a strong enough arguement to help me understand. I understand that 30 years ago there wasn't quite the same selection of bikes. Cruisers, standards and sportbikes really weren't all that different from each other. I get that image has a lot to do with tradition, and cruisers have been around, so they stick around. I get that they're american, and I figure that's probably one of the biggest factors in keeping them there. I get that at one point, a big harley might have been the toughest, meanest looking thing on the street, but I just don't really think any of that is true anymore.
There are so many guys riding harleys now, that the image is significantly softened up. When I see one parked somewhere, a biker gang is way down on the list of mental pictures that pop into my head. When I picture what the biker gang image is in my head, and then randomly try to line that up with what bike fits the best, I really think a harley only comes in around 3rd place. I get that a lot of people don't want a japanese bike, and that is going to put a bias on the whole situation, so the first bike that comes to mind is a Buell. Guys on harleys don't hate them, guys on sportbikes don't hate them, they're just all around well purposed bikes. They're generally light, fast, aggressive, sound mean, and are still american. When I picture a gang that's supposed to be mean and tough, I generally want to picture them on something powerful and fast. They don't necessarily need a short wheelbase for riding twisty back roads, but a loud couch on wheels doesn't really seem as tough to me as something with a decent power/weight ratio. The second thing to come to mind is something like a Kawasaki ZRX 1100/1200. Those bikes are just about as mean as it gets, and I'm not even gonna go into details because I think it's pretty easy. The only downside to that one again, being that they're Japanese. Then maybe down the line I can see some cruisers working their way in there, but still because the American side of it has to have a lot of pull. That does make me wonder though, why you can have your standard Harleys, and the complete opposite with a Buell, but Harley hasn't tried to come to any compromise by making something more like a zrx1100. I mean hell, they made V-rod, so at least that shows you they're not completely opposed to any kind of technology. All it takes is an engine being tuned right, and a little bit of aluminum. I know that being light isn't what makes a bike fun. I just think the general Harley image is presently something more focused on an easy going comfortable motorcycle ride. A group of hooligans who want to go out breaking laws, revving your engine, and being a hooligan in general, should be on, well, a hooligan bike.
So any of you guys in biker gangs that can explain to me why you don't ride anything but a Harley(aside from your secret love for the GS they don't know you have)? My dad has a sportster. Maybe I should take it on a ride and see if I feel like an outlaw.
When I see a Harley the image that pops up is that of polishing chrome but I recon that's true for most cruisers, we even have a Goldwing in our club, what the heck everyone to their own.
Quote from: Cal Price on September 14, 2009, 10:02:04 AM
what the heck everyone to their own.
Yeah, I tried to phrase the question so it wouldn't sound like I just want to pick on a certain group for wanting to ride a certain bike. I'm really just curious why that group seems to stick with the one style of bike, when it doesn't really seem to be a perfect match for the image they're trying to put off.
http://gankmotor.com/harleydavidson.html
My feeling about Harley riders is that they really want other people to NOTICE them on their bikes. Non-Harley riders don't give a shaZam! if the rest of the world notices us on our bikes.
Harley riders also seem to dress up and play biker; leather, Harley t-shirt, Harley boots, Harley underwear, Harley sunglasses. "I'm a bad-ass biker dude! Fear me!" Whatever, dude.
"If you're thinking of owning one just because you've got tons of money and want to show off how rich you are, I am going to wholeheartedly tell you now, DON'T. You'll give the real bikers and rockers out there a bad name. Not to mention you'll look funny, and everyone will be laughing at you behind your back. Or in your face, depending on how polite they are."
Haha, that was some awful writing. I wonder if the guy who wrote it realizes that not even Harley Davidson cares anymore. Aside for a couple guys who are probably still real into the image, it's all rich business guys with a marketing department. Plus I'm also wondering if he doesn't realize that as he passes people with his "devil's angel's hell's Devils" vest and his ZZ top beard, 50% of the people he passes are laughing at him, and the other half just think he's an ass for having an exhaust that loud in public.
And just for the record, I'm just referring to the guy who wrote the article, not all guys on Harleys
I pissed off a couple of em ...
They drove by my house and slashed my ... tax return. 30-40 bucks, gone.
Then one of them caught my house on the refi and adjusted my arm upward first so small that I didn't catch it and when I gave up on the house, it adjusted down and I could afford it ... then it adjusted again ... and back down ... those guys are bad dudes, you dont want to mess with them. No way.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on September 14, 2009, 05:46:07 PM
I pissed off a couple of em ...
They drove by my house and slashed my ... tax return. 30-40 bucks, gone.
Then one of them caught my house on the refi and adjusted my arm upward first so small that I didn't catch it and when I gave up on the house, it adjusted down and I could afford it ... then it adjusted again ... and back down ... those guys are bad dudes, you dont want to mess with them. No way.
Cool.
Buddha.
LOL
the scariest bunch i've known rode HD's. they were thugs. the dudes on cbr's were dumber though, and would go to jail for anything, thinking they'd get out on a tech-knee-callitme.
Quote from: tt_four on September 14, 2009, 11:37:21 AM
Quote from: Cal Price on September 14, 2009, 10:02:04 AM
what the heck everyone to their own.
Yeah, I tried to phrase the question so it wouldn't sound like I just want to pick on a certain group for wanting to ride a certain bike. I'm really just curious why that group seems to stick with the one style of bike, when it doesn't really seem to be a perfect match for the image they're trying to put off.
well tbh it swhere it ends up every time. wiht attitudes of many here. BUT i applaud your efforts. as both a gs rider as well as an hd rider too. ill ride anythign with two wheels and an engine. im not biased
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on September 14, 2009, 11:01:18 PM
Quote from: tt_four on September 14, 2009, 11:37:21 AM
Quote from: Cal Price on September 14, 2009, 10:02:04 AM
what the heck everyone to their own.
Yeah, I tried to phrase the question so it wouldn't sound like I just want to pick on a certain group for wanting to ride a certain bike. I'm really just curious why that group seems to stick with the one style of bike, when it doesn't really seem to be a perfect match for the image they're trying to put off.
well tbh it swhere it ends up every time. wiht attitudes of many here. BUT i applaud your efforts. as both a gs rider as well as an hd rider too. ill ride anythign with two wheels and an engine. im not biased
I'm biased I hate the crap out of hardly ablesons there I said now go whine some more :flipoff:
i'm wondering if the people who hate them so much have actually riden one. especially a newer one. :dunno_white:
Quote from: jserio on September 15, 2009, 12:47:37 PM
i'm wondering if the people who hate them so much have actually riden one. especially a newer one. :dunno_white:
Yes they're crap. HD is a status symbol. Other bikes out there do it better and for less money.
Ive owned a few Harleys and have really come to hate these anti-Harley threads that always pop up
on any bike forum, so Ill reply just one time, here.
Out of all of those bikes HD's are without a doubt, item for item, overall, the best bikes made in
my opinion, quality-wise. My opinion. The resale and the number of really, really old ones still on the
road bear this out. Some are faster, some are more hi-tech, and all have more plastic, but none
item for item, are better. I really cant understand why BMW's escape the wrath Harleys get given their
constant reliability issues. electrical glitches and over-the-top dealer yankage when you get one
serviced, but I digress, so back on topic......
The guys who ride HD's are what a lot of opinions are based on, not the bike. A lot of HD guys
the loudpiper-LOOK@ME types, gangster wannabes, etc are all flaming doooshes, but one
shouldnt let that taint their opinion of the bike. For a long interstate cruise on backroads, hiways
and just rollin' nice and slow, a Harley provides a 'feel' no one else can match. A Harley has a
'character' no other bike does except maybe a Triumph Bonneville or Royal Enfield.
Im a 155lb vegitarian, artist, hippy.....hardly your avarage Harley thuglette...The guys I rode with
were normal guys who wanted to see old train stuff and historical sites up an down the east coast.
They hit a Hooters and a few weird cafes and pile miles on like crazy...great times. Nice people.
Back on track....Biker gangs mostly got their start from disenfranchised veterans after different
wars. Hence the attachment to American made iron. When gangs were starting to get traction
in the USA, there werent even too many bigcc bikes. A Triumph or HD was really your only
choice for a wicked ride....Traditions die hard, especially when dealing with cro-mags who arent
known to be open minded or too intelligent t begin with. Unfortunately, those dimwits stick
to the J-bike/crap credo that you would expect. They --DO NOT--- represent even most HD riders.
I lived in the midst of bike territory in PA, Pagans and Warlocks...later when the Angels came
in they F'ed up a lot of events for everyone by getting them canceled through threat of violence
or other dum sht. Everyone was angry and thought of them as supreme D'Bagz.
Please dont judge HD ppl by knuckdragging, mouthbreathing 1%'ers.
HD ppl love their logo'd stuff and sort of do have a lifestyle. They love their bikes . You cant
blame them.....
As an old hippy, I would just say walk up to a group of them and talk about riding. You might
be surprised at what response you get. IF they were like the guys I rode with, you would have
great new friends for life and lots of good stuff to lok forward to every weekend :thumb:
Peace out...its all good, Live and let live :cheers:
Very well written Birdman! :thumb:
You answered his questions... That doesn't happen to often here :icon_mrgreen: I always wondered as well, why most "biker gangs" ride Harleys.. Never put 2 and 2 together that they are "American Made"
:thumb:
What part of PA are you from?
The american vs. japanese thing is what I figure is the biggest factor, but that still doesn't explain why you never see a guy or two on buells in the group, or even who gangs of guys on buells. I know they'd get picked on by the guys with cruisers, and tradition keeps them on a certain bike, but you'd think over the past 20 years it could've slowly shifted by itself.
I didn't want this to turn into an anti-Harley thread. Like I said, my dad has one, and he's not at all what you'd think of as a Harley guy. I find it amusing because you could tell people he has a Harley and a Rottweiler, and people might think he was tough, even though it's just a sportster 883 and the dog is a skinny little 55lb guy with a puppy face that loves to play. Plus that's why I also mentioned that the whole Harley image has been completely softened up to a standard motorcycle image, but some gangs are in denial and swear they're the only bikes you can be tough on.
:whisper: don't tell anyone that most HD parts are made in CHINA and only assembled in America.
Problem with walking up and talking to guys on HD's in my experience is unless you ride a HD, many HD riders do not want to know you. There are the exceptions but many will turn their nose up at you and look down at anything not costing 20k+
Some of my good mates ride HD's and the "superior look at me, look at how big my d!ck is" attitide comes out when riding with them. Besides this minor illusion of male organ growth and testosterone deoderant I have no problems with HD riders.
Not placing ALL HD riders in the same basket just making observations and commenting on experiences.
Quote from: tt_four on September 15, 2009, 04:11:51 PM
What part of PA are you from?
The american vs. japanese thing is what I figure is the biggest factor, but that still doesn't explain why you never see a guy or two on buells in the group, or even who gangs of guys on buells. I know they'd get picked on by the guys with cruisers, and tradition keeps them on a certain bike, but you'd think over the past 20 years it could've slowly shifted by itself.
I lived in Pittsburgh in the 60's to 1973, then Philly area, then Lancaster Co, before moving to Vermont and Florida.
I LOVE PA !! Id go back inna minute if my Wife would agree :woohoo:
The Buell thing, Its just not a popular bike . People just dont like Buells. HD guys dont like them because they are not
Cruiserish enuff, and sportbikers dont like them because of the HD affiliation and no 150 at the read wheel.
I'm looking a an older XB9 if I can get some more work. :thumb:
Whats ironic is I could say any of the same stuff about sportbike riders that is said bout HD riders....ya know, needing
a uniform, arrogant, posuerish etc...but I wont. Really, who needs full Dianese one-piece and a racer rep bike on the
road ? sound familiar ?? But, isnt it great we have the choice and can do what we want ? I think so :cheers:
In my 35 years riding, Ive had a lot of costumes hung in my closet for all the different bikes Ive owned....I met great
people in every genre of bike. We all have more in common than the not, when the uniforms are taken away.
(http://photo-hosting.winsoftmagic.com/1/y5ccf7fnis.jpg)
Heres my Sportster at the monthly ride in Ephrata, PA.
In the back is my friend Matts, R6
Arrogant... check I hate answering stupid questins like how fast will it go or does it wheelie.
Poseurish... nope I ride, and not to the bar to show off my new chrome pipes and farkle lights to my buddies while chugging beer then getting out on the road and endangering the public.
Uniform... damn don't have one of those either, I don't have a single stitch of clothing that says honda on it, leathers yep check... of course mine are for function not style. Fingerless gloves... assless chaps leather vest... :icon_lol: yeah at least if I go for the slide all my surface contact points are covered.
C'mon birdman you can do better than that.
i've always thought it was more about "the ride" and not "what you ride". :dunno_white:
^^^ agree 100% about the Jap bike riders as well
As a Road Trail rider on my KLR650 I notice that many Jap bike riders do not give RT riders a nod or a wave and vice versa. HD riders just don't nod or wave at anyone and Moped/scooter riders wave and nod at everyone wishing someone will just nod or wave back.....and then there is KTM.....Anyone I see riding a KTM over here is dressed in full KTM orange leathers or jacket, KTM boots, KTM gloves, KTM helmet stickers, KTM this KTM that blah blah blah looks bloody stupid. I rode once with a bunch of KTM riders on a Adventure Rider meet couple of years back......Once they finished laughing and making stupid comments about my KLR650 as mine was the oldest cheapest bike there and not a high end KTM like there's none of them would engage in conversation with ANY of us guys on Jap Road Trails. Only upside to that ride was one of the KTM riders with the big mouth crashed his KTM 990ADV being stupid and showing off in front of his KTM mates :flipoff:
After riding and owning all classes of bike except a HD I do find it strange where riders place themselves on the motorcycle food chain.
Birdman: Nice looking sportster.
Buell has a long way to go before they become competitive with the Jap market as Buel on many of their bikes have not been able to correct the low speed vibrations that shake the bike apart (that bit of info from a HD mechanic)
Uhmmm have you seen which builders bike/rider won the AMA points championship this year? Buell did and their rider Danny Eslick is a hometown boy from good old Broken Arrow he hangs out with a lot of local riders.
The best thing they did was go to the liquid cooled rotax motor, harley bought a big chunk of KTM and Rotax so they could get into the european markets, which gave Erik a new motor option. I would own a Buell now. The other smart thing they did was the V-rod motor. Only other bike they have I would consider.
Yeah, I'd be really hesitant to pick up one of the older buells, but I think they've made a ton of progress over the past couple years, and would consider a newer one. There was a video of one idling on youtube that I was going to post earlier but didn't. The entire bike was shaking so bad I swore parts were about to fall off.
Even if you don't want to say it, I will. 95% of guys on sportbikes are asshats. I've met a couple guys I really liked, but for the most part, the second the helmets came off was the second the fun ended. It wasn't so much bike related. A lot of guys with sportbikes are either cocky 20 year olds that are full of themselves, or rich overweight middle aged guys who just had an extra $15,000 they wanted to spend and ended up in a motorcycle shop.
Quote from: tt_four on September 16, 2009, 04:51:01 AM
Yeah, I'd be really hesitant to pick up one of the older buells, but I think they've made a ton of progress over the past couple years, and would consider a newer one. There was a video of one idling on youtube that I was going to post earlier but didn't. The entire bike was shaking so bad I swore parts were about to fall off.
Even if you don't want to say it, I will. 95% of guys on sportbikes are asshats. I've met a couple guys I really liked, but for the most part, the second the helmets came off was the second the fun ended. It wasn't so much bike related. A lot of guys with sportbikes are either cocky 20 year olds that are full of themselves, or rich overweight middle aged guys who just had an extra $15,000 they wanted to spend and ended up in a motorcycle shop.
Middle aged fat guy FTW!!!!! Not rich though... :nono: Been doing this since I was 14 though. King Kenny was my hero and inspiration, watching him work a bike was just amazing.
harleys are over priced, over weight, under powered, expensive pieces of shaZam!. so are most of the riders lol. most riders buy them for the "americana" bull shaZam! as well as just the noise of the things. our little gs500 can just destroy most harleys. as for gangs? well heaven help them riding a "jap" bike. ti is mostly prejudice that keeps fat ass losers on harleys. some are so fat if you look at them from behind when they are on their bikes it looks like a unicycle.
Out here, Harley guys are a bit of a contradiction. As much as they still personify the bad-ass biker dude image they also organize and are majority riders in quite a few charity biker events. There recently was the HogWild for Reading Ride. Over the course of the year there was the Ride for Dad, the Firefighters Burn Ride, and a few others. Towards Christmas there will be the Toy Ride. The vast majority of riders are Harley riders. Speaking to my brother-in-law he's said the reason there aren't many sport bike riders at these events is because they don't feel welcome. I'm new to the riding game, he's been riding for 14 years.
There was an article in one of the local newspapers recently about an accident that occurred on a stretch of local highway and one of the two sport bike riders involved was killed. Apparently they were riding side by side. Later that week there were editorials in the paper about how many people hated sport bike riders - because they're always riding side by side.
Funny thing - since I started riding all I've ever seen is Harley and custom chopper guys riding side by side. I've yet to see sport bike riders riding side by side. :dunno_white:
I tried a Nightster after I got my Class 6 because I still wasn't sure what it was that I wanted to ride. The vibrations were intense. The salesman couldn't stop grinning - I was wearing a tank top. There is no way I could ride one of those things. I tried a Buell, too. That was even worse! I don't know how these guys can ride them for long distances. My hands were numb just from the short idle in the lot - never mind an hour's ride out to Harrison. By body was still vibrating even after I got off the bike. It was very unnerving.
And the greeting thing - I've noticed that, too. I greet everyone. But not everyone greets me back. I get greetings back from a wide variety of people - even burly Harley and custom chopper guys. At the same time I get no greetings even from my own crowd. I guess it's all in their attitude. The way I see it we're all on two wheels - what difference should it make what brand we ride? Shouldn't it all be about the joy of riding, the wind in your hair, the bugs in your teeth and the freedom of being on the open road? (I wear a full face helmet, but you get the idea... :D )
i hear people say all the time about how bad harleys shake. the 2009 i demoed did not bother me one bit with "shaking".
Thank you. :cheers:
People say a lot of stupid things, especially as it relates to HD's.
Funny, you only hear ppl who dont own Harleys saying this stuff.
When I was younger , I thought gurls would give you kooties
and beer was all icky.....I thought H.R. Puffnstuff was a real dood
and the toof fairy would give me more for my green teef.
As I got older, I realized all this stuff wasnt true, little by little.
Most of the kids that comment on HD's have been riding for 5 or
6 years., never been on a HD, worked on one or owned one.
When they get a little older, learn a little.... they will get it.
They'll come around.
:thumb:
I wonder why it is you never see "Sportbike Suck" threads started on
HD boards.......Hmmmmmmmmmmm :dunno_black:
But I owned a Harley once... does that qualify me to talk smack? I've also owned suzuki's in the past and talk smack about them too!
I also detest Moto Guzzi. Really don't care for BMW's either would totally rock a KTM though. I am however extremely interested in the new Beemer superbike like homer simpson drooling on myself interested in one! Un fortunately I want a wing, I've had one before and it may be the worlds most perfect bike, and a sportbike which means no beemer for me, I have to sell the 954 if I want a new sportbike but a GL I can add to the stable.
If I wanted a chopper I'd totally rock an old school trumpet trident.
Quote from: birdman561 on September 15, 2009, 01:14:00 PM
Ive owned a few Harleys and have really come to hate these anti-Harley threads that always pop up
on any bike forum, so Ill reply just one time, here.
Out of all of those bikes HD's are without a doubt, item for item, overall, the best bikes made in
my opinion, quality-wise. My opinion. The resale and the number of really, really old ones still on the
road bear this out. Some are faster, some are more hi-tech, and all have more plastic, but none
item for item, are better. I really cant understand why BMW's escape the wrath Harleys get given their
constant reliability issues. electrical glitches and over-the-top dealer yankage when you get one
serviced, but I digress, so back on topic......
Ummm wrongo bridman -
In the 70's HD was getting killed by all 4 jap makes.
CB honda, KZ kawi, GS suzuki, and xs yamaha - no way any HD would hold a candle to these.
The only time the HD quality has put it a leg up over the jap IMHO, is the last 5-8 years.
Not that the HD quality has improved, jap quality has dropped cos they have started designing bikes that make you buy more and more crap from them.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: birdman561 on September 16, 2009, 03:33:28 PM
I wonder why it is you never see "Sportbike Suck" threads started on
HD boards.......Hmmmmmmmmmmm :dunno_black:
Do they know how to type? I assumed all the bashing was going on at the bar by a bunch of drunks!
(that was a joke by the way, I wasn't the one who started harley bashing)
personally, i think that the only bikes that are/should be thought of as true "crap" bikes would be ones no longer in production. my thinking is that no manufacturer is in business for any other reason to make money. and if they aren't making money off a bike, you'd think they'd just scarp it. so, the bikes that are selling today that have been around for awhile can't really be all that bad if the manufacturers are still producing them and they are still selling. :dunno_white:
Quote from: tt_four on September 16, 2009, 04:51:01 AM
Yeah, I'd be really hesitant to pick up one of the older buells, but I think they've made a ton of progress over the past couple years, and would consider a newer one. There was a video of one idling on youtube that I was going to post earlier but didn't. The entire bike was shaking so bad I swore parts were about to fall off.
Even if you don't want to say it, I will. 95% of guys on sportbikes are asshats. I've met a couple guys I really liked, but for the most part, the second the helmets came off was the second the fun ended. It wasn't so much bike related. A lot of guys with sportbikes are either cocky 20 year olds that are full of themselves, or rich overweight middle aged guys who just had an extra $15,000 they wanted to spend and ended up in a motorcycle shop.
i used alot of the buell parts on my sportster. ( engines virtually identical)
There were some extraordinary bikes that were scrapped cos the manufacturers weren't making any $$ off them in parts. Those models were either re introduced as others with defects (a clear case of fix what isn't broken and ignore what is ... Vstar from virago 1100 is a good example here) or aww crap someone else is better than ours - eliminator 1000 killed by Vmax, except eli1000 is 1000 times easier to fix, but who cares ..., or jeez, if the people all buy this, we'll never sell them any parts ever again - 84+ Maxim 700's, radians etc or our bike is so cool we want XXXX for it. Oh, OK you wont pay XXXX, we'll discount that to YYYY but wont make any more. Honda hawk.
There is many many more, bikes that were dated, the public's view changed, or the competetion changed the game or rules changed .... many many extraordinary bikes went to the DOA line.
Cool.
Buddha.
RC51?
RC51 what? It looks and sounds like it would be a great bike, but all I ever hear about it is that it makes an awful street bike, and that the fun doesn't start to kick in until at least 80mph(which doesn't make sense to me considering it's a twin and I would think it would have plenty of low end for the street, but i've never ridden one, so I can't say).
Don't take that as me saying I wouldn't have fun on it, and that I wouldn't think it was a great bike, but I think it's reputation is that it's too serious of a race bike to make a good street bike compared to everything else that's out there, so just because it's a great bike, doesn't mean it it didn't sell poorly enough for Honda to want to discontinue it.
I personally miss the zx7r :cry: but I have hope that they'll make a new one eventually, I am kind of worried though, I haven't liked any of their ZXRs since the 2003-04 636, so I hope that if they do remake it, it doesn't just look exactly like a 3rd version of the bikes they have now. A little bit of variety is good. I like GSXRs a lot, but I do get bored with the fact that they're all the same exact bike.
Quote from: dohabee on September 17, 2009, 09:34:48 PM
RC51?
Nope, fugly, hard to work on, weird sheite computer glitches, fuel injectors that somehow come loose inside the housing or TPS does or something, and V twin garbage ... WTF ... why is everyone jumping on the V twin bandwagon. Parallel twin with a 270 crank works just as well if they need primary balance and V twin sound.
SV1000 - another one that is justly delegated to the garbage pile ... till you factor in the fact that it uses all the 650 body bits, all GSXR sheite is a swap in for its suspension and wheels etc and it looks super cool with trellis frame.
TL is another one which was killed by a weapon of different category. Public ignorance.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on September 18, 2009, 07:19:50 AM
Quote from: dohabee on September 17, 2009, 09:34:48 PM
RC51?
... WTF ... why is everyone jumping on the V twin bandwagon.
I would love a V-twin sportbike. Sounds like a much better engine for the street, and would let you use more of the power just riding around as opposed to revving a sportbike up to 9krpm in traffic. They just don't make too many twins I really like. I do like the TLS and TLR, but that's about it. I wish they'd make a nice 750 v twin. If I'm going to spend that much on a bike I'd like something with more power than the sv650, and I don't need something as big as a 1000. All of this leaves a Buell at the top of the list of bikes I think I'd have the most fun on, and it's a shame that the japanese companies let that happen.
I am comparing V twins to parallel twins. Not to 4's.
V twins are idiotic ... need primary balance, do 270 crank on a parallel twin. Heck do 277 degrees and you lose a lot of secondary and get a little primary imbalance back in.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: bettingpython on September 16, 2009, 03:53:01 AM
Uhmmm have you seen which builders bike/rider won the AMA points championship this year? Buell did and their rider Danny Eslick is a hometown boy from good old Broken Arrow he hangs out with a lot of local riders.
The best thing they did was go to the liquid cooled rotax motor, harley bought a big chunk of KTM and Rotax so they could get into the european markets, which gave Erik a new motor option. I would own a Buell now. The other smart thing they did was the V-rod motor. Only other bike they have I would consider.
Agreed. If Harley put a Sportster-size version of the V-rod motor into a standard-type frame with pegs below the seat I would lust for one.
Good opinions here without much hate. I like that. Yes, I've ridden Harleys, and as it stands now they're not for me because I can't ride cruisers with forward pegs because of my back and I prefer lighter bikes because they're more fun for me to ride. I don't like heavy steering either. My XS 750 is great to tour around with my g/f on the back but it isn't half as much fun to ride as my GS because of its weight. I could slam Harleys because they're not for me, but I could say the same things about BMW's, Guzzis, Gold Wings, Ventures, or any of the metric Harley clones. They are equally not for me. Boxer twins and Guzzis are also ugly as hell. How's that? Harleys are beautiful and sound great, no doubt about that.
I really liked tt's questions and birdman's answers. My uncle's a Road Vulture and it bought back several memories. I was just a boy back then. But he left something big out.
There are old Harley riders and newer ones. Guys who have been riding Harleys a long time, like my uncle, don't like the new guys because many of the new guys are accountants and such who bought the Harley image in an attempt to shed their nerdy image in middle age. The old guys are also mad at Harley for concentrating on selling the image. They view the whole thing as crass commercialism, robbing them of the uniqueness riding a Harley once had when riding motorcycles in general was less popular. Now they're associated by many against their will with a huge crowd of people who are in their minds part of the "system".
I don't really share that opinion although I understand it. Harley saved an American company and jobs by doing what they did even though they contain a high percentage of foreign parts. Their sales numbers speak for themselves. Although I wish they'd make a bike for me I can't blame them for what they've done.
SV's aren't V-twins, they're L-twins.
L-twins have excellent primary and secondary balance for two-cylinder 4-stroke engines. Plus, the shaking frequency remains below the threshold that cause "tingling" in humans.
;)