Hello,
Stayed up all night working on my as of yet unnamed GS. I drained and pulled the tank, airbox and detached the carb assembly but left the choke and throttle cables attached and rested it on the frame. Detached the bowls, removed the jets and emulsion tubes and gave them a thorough cleaning... still, no joy! Is it possible that there is crud inside the actual body of the carburetor as well, necessitating a full detachment and cleaning?
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_cx0TaWdlCJ0/SrNd83QtTFI/AAAAAAAABQw/bLBsU1R--48/s720/Foto-1.jpg)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_cx0TaWdlCJ0/SrNd9RDCqFI/AAAAAAAABQ4/Asbrqn9_oAM/s720/Foto-3.jpg)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_cx0TaWdlCJ0/SrNd9hy_r8I/AAAAAAAABQ8/6U0TjfBzfIs/s512/Foto-4.jpg)
Also, managed to drop and crack my battery, so that looks like 40-70 bucks...
Managed to drop an airbox screw onto the lower section of the drive chain, when I rolled the bike to look for it it got bit by the gear/chain so now I've got to replace it and the washers...
Managed to almost strip the carb bowl screws, so I've gotta get 8 more of those... I think I'll take it up to stainless steel because those brass ones are crap!
Any help appreciated, more questions to come.
Peace,
Syzygy
Oh man, you sound like me when I was learning to work on a bike. I used to break/strip everything. I ripped one of the fuel line connecters clean off in my fuel pump, the plate that held my fuel pump only had 3 out of the 6 studs left on the bottom of the tank, stripped engine mount threads, think I stripped one of the bolts that held the top camshaft cover. It was a mess.
I can't say I'm much better at making bikes run, but I have stopped breaking things.
What exactly is your bike doing? Cranking over and just not firing up? I'm sure if you give us some more details someone can let you know what's going on with it.
Hello tt_four, thanks for your input and prompt.
I picked the bike up on Sunday with the knowledge that a shop had diagnosed an $800 carburetor repair job. Gas has been sitting in the tank/fuel lines/carbs for 4 years.
What it actually does when I hit the ignition is turn over and provide a spark (tested against the frame) and if I put a shot of ether in there it will give me a quick combustion, but it does not actually stay on.
What I have actually done so far is replace the gasoline with fresh 93 octane (higher than needed, I know, but figured it couldn't hurt) and drained the fuel system completely. I have pulled and cleaned all 6 jets and both emulsion tubes. I have tested the battery's voltage and as of last night (before I destroyed it!) it was putting out 12.5, the result of me abusing the starter a little too eagerly when I first picked it up.
So aside from doing a full carburetor teardown and rebuild to look for gunk, I'm a bit out of ideas!
Peace,
Syzygy
I think you're gonna have to open it up and clean out the gunk. I had some stuff in one of my float bowls and it was making my engine run on one cylinder.... drained it and all is well. That was after sitting for a month or so - I would imagine 4 years it would be a lot worse.
Best of luck :cheers:
4 years sitting with gas in is definitely complete tear down and clean all passages. Take out all the rubbery or plasticy parts and soak the metal parts in the nasty carb cleaner, poke with wires as needed. Or, if looking at a "$800 repair job", simply buying a set of used carbs in better shape for about $500 less, if I recall the typical going price correctly. But tearing them down yourself or sending them to buddha if he's not too backed up is a lot cheaper than ~$300 for new-used ones.
Added:
A hint regarding nasty carb cleaner (learned when dealing with all 4 carbs from a 140 hp corvair): Get disposable foil baking pans of a size to hold the carbs, not too much bigger. After putting the carb metal parts only and carb cleaner in, seal the top with aluminum foil - cuts down on evaporation and fumes. Be very careful, the stuff is nasty, nasty, nasty - good ventilation (ie, work outside and stay upwind) is essential.
A full teardown it shall be! Expect some questions when it comes time to recalibrating my idle screw, choke and throttle cables :dunno_white:
Thanks, this forum has been great for a 2 wheeling n00b like me... if anyone gets it in their head to get a rig, maybe I can be of some help? =)
peace,
Syzygy
I'm picking up my first bike here in the next week a '90 GS500 and will be looking at doing the same thing since my bike has had gas in it for over a year. Let us know how you fair...more specifically me :D :D :D
Is the choke working ?
What are the symptoms ?
hmmm...i always thought that for good combustion you use 87 octane as it's more volatile. Higher octane is used in performance cars because it is less prone to predetonation under the higher compression ratios or turbo charging. Want it to run like awesome? use normal fuel
Sounds like me when I started to learn my own maintenance :icon_lol: It gets easier.
Carb bowl screws: These are made in hell by the devil's own minions. They're JIS screws. If you try them with a phillips driver, they're sure to strip. Now that you got them out (mine stripped and I had to drill them out LOL) throw them away and put in some 'real' screws or cap head bolts. You'll never have that particular problem again.
:)
:thumb:
Good work!
Do you have a repair manual? If not, I'd start there. :) The most common manuals are made by Clymer or Haynes. They have step-by-step instructions and lots of photos. There is also an official Suzuki manual - it assumes more advanced knowledge, but is very good for specs. The books are not expensive, and owning one is well worth it in terms of the number of headaches prevented.
Good luck with your restoration! :icon_mrgreen:
For a cheap battery option, Walmart sells a YB10L-A2 for $30. Only difference I see between the A2 and the B2 is the vent tube is on the opposite side.
-Jessie
Quote from: Syzygy on September 18, 2009, 07:24:21 AM
Hello tt_four, thanks for your input and prompt.
I picked the bike up on Sunday with the knowledge that a shop had diagnosed an $800 carburetor repair job. Gas has been sitting in the tank/fuel lines/carbs for 4 years.
What it actually does when I hit the ignition is turn over and provide a spark (tested against the frame) and if I put a shot of ether in there it will give me a quick combustion, but it does not actually stay on.
What I have actually done so far is replace the gasoline with fresh 93 octane (higher than needed, I know, but figured it couldn't hurt) and drained the fuel system completely. I have pulled and cleaned all 6 jets and both emulsion tubes. I have tested the battery's voltage and as of last night (before I destroyed it!) it was putting out 12.5, the result of me abusing the starter a little too eagerly when I first picked it up.
So aside from doing a full carburetor teardown and rebuild to look for gunk, I'm a bit out of ideas!
Peace,
Syzygy
$800 to clean carbs? Don't ever do business with that garage! Not that it's the way to make this repair, but you could buy new carbs for less than that! I think that was a "I don't want to do it" estimate!
4 years of sitting with untreated gas in the carbs does necessitate a teardown and cleaning, but that should do it! You can be sure they're full of varnish, but the bike otherwise looks like-new. Have fun and good luck!
Yea, you def need to tear em down. You may want to replace your fuel lines as well. I would drain your tank and shake it around to clean it out as well take both petcocks (tank and frame mounted) out and clean as well.. then top it off w/ some new gas. Adding an inline filter may be a good idea too they only cost like $4
And as Ohgood said be sure and check the choke operation it may just be stuck closed.. May want to check that before you go tearing it all down for nothing :icon_mrgreen:
There are many good posts here on carb cleaning so I wont bother to say much other than.. Buy good cleaner! Suzuki makes GREAT carb cleaner Gummout is junk. Keep track of your little parts well! there are lots of little things in there and like to hide when droped.. esp the small o-rings in the caps. Its an easy and gratifying job once you get it right. Good luck! :cheers:
advance auto sells carb cleaner in what looks like a gallon paint bucket. has a built in little mesh container to put the carb bodies on, then you can replace the lid to be sure you dont spill it or anything. used it on an old holler for a work truck, and it worked fantasticly
Thanks again for the replies.
I do have a Clymer's and it has been helpful. I'm going to work on the GS next Sunday after the local Ride for Kids and a guy who has 15 bikes or so should be there to help me diagnose/repair. This week I'll get my 4 door and rig wrenched and hammered and that'll leave the sweet, sweet Suzuki for me to play with :)
Hmm... your bike kinda reminds me of mine- a '06 GS500F, and let me say I know virtually nothing about bikes but I do know that something is not quite right with it. Hehe, I was so excited that its an 06 but it only had 680 miles on it when it came to me barely 2 months ago. Now I'm starting to understand that such low mileage means a LOT of sitting around unridden, so there's probably a lot more to be done on it than I thought. What exactly does gas left sitting in an engine for a long time do? Could that perhaps cause the cold-blooded, misfiring bike I've been fighting with for the last few weeks?
And here's another quick question: Lots of times I get stuck fighting 1st and neutral. Some days it sticks in neutral and refuses to shift all the way down, some days its a pain in the butt about getting into neutral, just jumps back and forth between 1st and 2nd no matter how gentle I am with it. Sound like a problem that anyone has had before? What are the simple things that could cause this?
Quote from: kincaire on September 21, 2009, 10:50:18 AM
Hmm... your bike kinda reminds me of mine- a '06 GS500F, and let me say I know virtually nothing about bikes but I do know that something is not quite right with it. Hehe, I was so excited that its an 06 but it only had 680 miles on it when it came to me barely 2 months ago. Now I'm starting to understand that such low mileage means a LOT of sitting around unridden, so there's probably a lot more to be done on it than I thought. What exactly does gas left sitting in an engine for a long time do? Could that perhaps cause the cold-blooded, misfiring bike I've been fighting with for the last few weeks?
And here's another quick question: Lots of times I get stuck fighting 1st and neutral. Some days it sticks in neutral and refuses to shift all the way down, some days its a pain in the butt about getting into neutral, just jumps back and forth between 1st and 2nd no matter how gentle I am with it. Sound like a problem that anyone has had before? What are the simple things that could cause this?
Kincaire,
Congrats on another first. You just jacked this thread. Well to answer your questions, gas, if it sits unused, the more volatile components evaporate away, leading to poorer engine performance. also, gas can oxidize which mean some of the hydrocarbons in the fuel react with oxygen to produce new compounds. When oxidation becomes a problem, the gasoline gives off a sour odor. If you pour some into a glass container, you'll see it's turned dark, and you might find small, solid particles of gum. Using oxidized gasoline is a bad idea, since the gum can clog your fuel filter, create deposits in your fuel system, and generally hurt performance.
Your clutch problem could be several things. Your clutch needs oil so check the level (make sure you using the correct oil). I suspect that you just need more practice in shifting. I'll find it will get easier as you ride more.
-Porkchop
Quote from: kincaire on September 21, 2009, 10:50:18 AM
Hmm... your bike kinda reminds me of mine- a '06 GS500F, and let me say I know virtually nothing about bikes but I do know that something is not quite right with it. Hehe, I was so excited that its an 06 but it only had 680 miles on it when it came to me barely 2 months ago. Now I'm starting to understand that such low mileage means a LOT of sitting around unridden, so there's probably a lot more to be done on it than I thought. What exactly does gas left sitting in an engine for a long time do? Could that perhaps cause the cold-blooded, misfiring bike I've been fighting with for the last few weeks?
And here's another quick question: Lots of times I get stuck fighting 1st and neutral. Some days it sticks in neutral and refuses to shift all the way down, some days its a pain in the butt about getting into neutral, just jumps back and forth between 1st and 2nd no matter how gentle I am with it. Sound like a problem that anyone has had before? What are the simple things that could cause this?
As far as not shifting into first from neutral is concerned, one of my bikes has this problem and i know there are others. My workaround to it is to push down on the gear shift lever and hold it down while i roll the bike forward or backwards a little. The direction simply depends the grading of ground it's sitting on. I'm lazy so which ever direction provides the least resistance is the direction it's going in. It only takes a few inches or so generally so it's not really a big deal.
Another member posted a different solution awhile back that i believed involved holding down on the gear shift lever as well. But instead of rolling the bike in either direction he would just release the clutch lever slowly until it popped into gear. I believe the sweet spot was almost 3/4 of the way out for him. Don't quote me on that though, i may not be remembering it correctly.
The not going into neutral is also a problem of mine except my bike will simply refuse to come out of first entirely. If i'm sitting at a light while it happens i just hold the clutch in so it's not really a big deal. If i'm trying to roll the bike somewhere else without riding it, again, i just hold the clutch in so it's not really a big deal either. The only way i know to get it, "unstuck" is to drive it. I know that holding up on the gear shift lever in the direction of neutral while rolling the bike forward or backward doesn't help... Thinking aloud here... Maybe i'll try that other guys clutch release trick... Maybe that will work... *shrugs*
"I feel much better now." says HAL 9000 - Bob!
Oh ya, almost forgot. As far as what cause's it or how to repair it so it doesn't happen... I've got no clue. I've owned/ridden quite a few bikes in my time and the GS isn't the first or the last i'm sure that will have a few quirks in regards to it shifting, "normally".
- Bob!
Although many here have used this battery, BE AWARE! Battery vent on the left ('wrong') side will spill battery acid when your bike is on the sidestand. If you don't have a long enough vent hose, or have your hose routed funny, this acid WILL do nasty things to your bike (usually ends up weakening your chain, and is possibility of premature chain failure). Also, you must pay attention that your battery is always sufficiently filled. If it pours a little out each time you park on the sidestand, you might have short battery life (due to low acid level). :police:
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on September 19, 2009, 07:03:00 AM
For a cheap battery option, Walmart sells a YB10L-A2 for $30. Only difference I see between the A2 and the B2 is the vent tube is on the opposite side.
-Jessie
Quote from: kincaire on September 21, 2009, 10:50:18 AM
Hmm... your bike kinda reminds me of mine- a '06 GS500F, and let me say I know virtually nothing about bikes but I do know that something is not quite right with it. Hehe, I was so excited that its an 06 but it only had 680 miles on it when it came to me barely 2 months ago. Now I'm starting to understand that such low mileage means a LOT of sitting around unridden, so there's probably a lot more to be done on it than I thought. What exactly does gas left sitting in an engine for a long time do? Could that perhaps cause the cold-blooded, misfiring bike I've been fighting with for the last few weeks?
And here's another quick question: Lots of times I get stuck fighting 1st and neutral. Some days it sticks in neutral and refuses to shift all the way down, some days its a pain in the butt about getting into neutral, just jumps back and forth between 1st and 2nd no matter how gentle I am with it. Sound like a problem that anyone has had before? What are the simple things that could cause this?
Drain the gas, completely. Replace with fresh (regular old low octane), run the old stuff through a lawnmower you don't love much or take to a recycling center that accepts the stuff. Might want new (or at least to clean the) spark plugs, too. Probably should really clean the carbs out - may have no choice, although you can also get into trouble mucking with them if you don't take the time to appreciate what you are getting into, so try the simple/easy approaches first. If you can get it running and riding, taking it out for an hour or two to burn the snot off and get that fresh gas run through everything can really help. Using the carb drains to remove any crud collected in the carb bowls can also help quite a bit.
As for the shifting, wrong oil level or wrong oil type or oil not changed adequately often all can affect shifting. So change the oil and filter (being vary careful of the filter studs - read up on the pitfalls
before you break one) to some nice fresh 10W-40 non-energy-conserving - cheap is fine, so long as it meets those specs.
Also - shifting while the bike is still moving works much better than shifting with it stopped - so punch it all the way into first while it's still rolling, and then pop it up into neutral while it's also still rolling if you want neutral (never while out on the road, IMHO - you always want to be able to just release the clutch and get out of the way if something bad shows up in the rearview mirror while you are at a stop).