http://www.vholdr.com/video/gs500f-track-day
Oh man, that was a TREAT to watch! Thanks for posting it. Look at him, passing on the outside like it's nothing!
Very cool :thumb:
Question though... what level are the other riders at? I only ask because while I know that larger bikes don't handle as well as the GS, neither do they seem to need to slow down to basically a stop to make some of those turns (Mainly referring to the turn at ~1:08) which you had to weave through traffic to take at any sort of speed :cookoo:
All in all very cool and I hope to do some track riding ASAP (which probably won't be for a couple of years :cry:)
lol. this is level 100. Its the begginers.. But i found it awesome how they would just jet off on me on the straight then slow down on the turns. made my day.
Quote from: Bluehaze on October 13, 2009, 08:37:19 PM
lol. this is level 100. Its the begginers.. But i found it awesome how they would just jet off on me on the straight then slow down on the turns. made my day.
Wow, definately need to move up a class...both for your entertainment and safety. Nice job.
Quote from: NF11624 on October 13, 2009, 08:35:15 PM
Very cool :thumb:
Question though... what level are the other riders at? I only ask because while I know that larger bikes don't handle as well as the GS, neither do they seem to need to slow down to basically a stop to make some of those turns (Mainly referring to the turn at ~1:08) which you had to weave through traffic to take at any sort of speed :cookoo:
All in all very cool and I hope to do some track riding ASAP (which probably won't be for a couple of years :cry:)
larger bikes, DO, handle as well as the GS. take a cbr, or a ninja, 600 or 1000 they all handle as well if not better.
Nice :thumb: :thumb:
Q: What type of camera did you use?
Michael
Quote from: jrains89 on October 13, 2009, 11:02:33 PM
Quote from: NF11624 on October 13, 2009, 08:35:15 PM
Very cool :thumb:
Question though... what level are the other riders at? I only ask because while I know that larger bikes don't handle as well as the GS, neither do they seem to need to slow down to basically a stop to make some of those turns (Mainly referring to the turn at ~1:08) which you had to weave through traffic to take at any sort of speed :cookoo:
All in all very cool and I hope to do some track riding ASAP (which probably won't be for a couple of years :cry:)
larger bikes, DO, handle as well as the GS. take a cbr, or a ninja, 600 or 1000 they all handle as well if not better.
A GS500 is a great little bike, its flickable, dependable, low-cost, comfortable. But I'm sorry it's just not going to touch a GSXR on the track. ( Same Rider Level)
That's why they make different types of bikes.
I miss my 500 for those reasons in particular. I have a GSXR now and its a trade off really, speed + handling or comfort and cheap price.
I'm well aware that the GS SHOULD (key word here) never touch a modern sport bike (supersports, even SVs and their ilk) - which is why I was curious as to the other riders' level of skill. And I have to argue that the GS does have better handling - due to a number of reasons (geometry, power and tires being the main factors in my mind). Now, if you are saying that a GSXR, CBR etc... have better handling at 100+ MPH, then I will happily agree with you :cheers:, but I can destroy all of my friends (who have 600s) in almost any position where handling comes into play. Also, having ridden said bikes (mainly a 2003ish ZX6R), I have to say that the turning is not as effortless as on a GS... the only advantages I can see are lower center of gravity and speed. Doesn't make those bikes any less awesome though :icon_twisted:
Quote from: NF11624 on October 14, 2009, 05:01:52 AM
And I have to argue that the GS does have better handling - due to a number of reasons (geometry, power and tires being the main factors in my mind). Now, if you are saying that a GSXR, CBR etc... have better handling at 100+ MPH, then I will happily agree with you :cheers:, but I can destroy all of my friends (who have 600s) in almost any position where handling comes into play. Also, having ridden said bikes (mainly a 2003ish ZX6R), I have to say that the turning is not as effortless as on a GS... the only advantages I can see are lower center of gravity and speed. Doesn't make those bikes any less awesome though :icon_twisted:
Oh no. Not this argument again. :technical:
For the sake of arguing though (all in good fun of course)
no it doesn't, and below 100mph too, your friends need more practice, no, you forgot a few, yes.
I'll agree that my friends need to get better, but (for the sake of argument 8)) if a GS doesn't handle better then how can it possibly over take any bike on any road/track? I have read countless testimonials as to its better cornering ability - 'I always make it back in the corners', 'SSs can't touch me in the twisties' being recurring themes. To me handling is just about the only thing a GS does have vs other bikes (comfort, price, ease of maintenance being others that come to mind). One of the friends who I mentioned before rode my GS around and was surprised how easy and natural the steering was... I thought his ZX6 had heavy steering, especially at low speeds. Now, that may be because I'm not used to it, but it might be something else (like the wider tires affecting turn-in, or the geometry combined with unfamiliarity making me put more weight on my hands).
I'm not someone who sticks to the losing team in an argument, but I have yet to see any evidence (of even the anecdotal variety), nor have I actually experienced these supposed advantages these bikes have in handling over a GS. If you can explain how/why in a logical manner, I will be happy to jump ship and go out and let people know whats up.
Whew, all that said, I like the GS, I'm not gonna defend it like some on here (because I think it is far far far from perfect), but these are still fun debates and I always learn something from them :cheers:.
ineedanap is correct. There is really NOTHING the GS has over a modern 600 when it comes to performance. Not only is the engine 20 years out of date, but so is the suspension. Yes, I can hang with anyone on the street, and even in an intermediate group at the track, my corner speeds are better than most. I can focus on corner speed because the power isn't terrifying! But keep moving up in skill and the costlier suspension and setup of a real sportbike will justify itself. A lot of tech from pro race bikes trickles its way down and the GS didn't get any of that. If the GS had a cornering advantage, then why wouldn't they be putting race built modern motors in GS frames and running them in MotoGP? :dunno_white: :cookoo:
Yes, the GS might feel more flickable and seem like it has some advantage, but that's because we don't have a steering damper, our tires are narrow, and the seat is low. We don't even have a weight advantage, for example, the SV650 is lighter. At higher speeds, at the actual limit (not what you see on the street or even track days), those "advantages" become liabilities.
Well that is certainly a good point. Since we are arguing for fun, here is my counter: They aren't using GSX-R, CBR, or any production frames in MotoGP, so that point is somewhat irrelevant (strictly on the technicality that MotoGP is a prototype series - I know they are racing them in SBK :icon_mrgreen:). I'm not arguing about the engine - I feel like it was almost behind the times when it was released (and it probably was), and the suspension is terrible (even with upgrades its probably not all that great). But even granting that, there must be some reason that you can keep up with 600s at all when they can attain faster speeds quicker, brake better and have stickier tires. Or is it all just skill? Because I can't see skill really making up for a 80HP difference, no matter how good you are (granted this goes with your point of higher skill levels).
I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about... but there must be something there right?
Ah well, it was a fun debate while it lasted 8).
I agree with ecspreston and indeednap. GS cannot compete with the newer bikes.. however if you progress faster in your skill and confidence to ride the bike correctly, it certainly is fun passing those bikes on corners. I am by no means a skilled biker and consider myself a beginner, but thanks to the low torque and low hp on the GS and the 003 tire its forgiving.
A GS on the track is fun, you can use all the speed it can dish out, even on corners.
The camera i was using is VHOLDR camera. Got it fo 99 dollars. I think they were getting rid of it as new CountourHD camera was just coming out. Excellent camera, sound is very touchy.
Either way it was a cool ass video and looked like fun. That is what matters most.
Quote from: NF11624 on October 14, 2009, 07:36:59 AM
Or is it all just skill?
YES.
When I started doing track days on the GS in the novice class I could keep up with everyone.
The limit wasn't the bike...it was the rider's ability to push themselves to do things that feel unnatural. The GS was a great platform to push the limits because it was easy to ride and forgiving (and cheap as hell to crash). That's why you're smoking your buddies on the street.
Now that I've moved up to a mid pack intermediate the GS isn't fun anymore. As my skills improve the flaws of the GS suspension started to show. Fixed that for $800. Then a couple months later I couldn't do a track day without replacing brake parts every time. Later my 100% in the turns wasn't enough to execute passes because everyone else is getting better too. Every time I did a track day and my skills improved I had to upgrade the bike to match. Eventually you get tired of upgrading.
A 600cc sportbike straight off the showroom is already capable of more than 99.9% of riders can ask from it.
The rider never has to upgrade the bike. They only need to upgrade their skills to match. Quote from: NF11624 on October 14, 2009, 07:36:59 AM
I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about... but there must be something there right?
You're not wrong at all. You make lots of good points and I agree with you completely about many of them. The GS is a great bike to learn skills quickly. Realistically at my next track day I will be slower on my SV650 than I was on my GS until I get used to the new bike.
Sorry about the long post...I'm bored at work.
ineedanap: A sv 650 will get creamed by a 600-4 though. heck a SV1000 is no match for a 600-4 of similar vintage.
Yea SV is fun, much more so than a 600-4 but not really competetive.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on October 14, 2009, 09:24:29 AM
ineedanap: A sv 650 will get creamed by a 600-4 though. heck a SV1000 is no match for a 600-4 of similar vintage.
Yea SV is fun, much more so than a 600-4 but not really competetive.
Cool.
Buddha.
Me on a SV is still probably a hell of a lot faster than you on a 600. :D
So...if a SV isn't competitive compared to a 600...and a GS500 isn't competitive compared to a SV...then a GS500 definatly isn't competitive compared to a 600. I guess that means you agree with me. Thanks.
Really ... really ...
You on a GS is faster than me on an 600 or even 750-4 for sure.
However you upgraded your gs to go faster than me ... really ... I am touched ...
You will easily run into the limits of the SV, I dont believe there is any getting around a 50+ hp difference and essentially what I'd just call 2X the handling and at best ... even for weight.
GSXR/CBR/R-6 type 4 cyl 600's are really that good.
There was a huge debate on the SV1K site about how they can out run a 600 with a SV1K without bore jobs, and the end result was ... drop Ohlins front and rear, GSXR swingarm, PM wheels, TL-R heads and FI, and lighten the living day lights out of everything and pray for rain and mechanical trouble for all the I-4's.
Now this is a 1000, already just 5-10 hp adrift of a 600 and more torque but more weight and touring/garbage suspension.
There was a guy I know who racked up 35K on an 04SV and he said on track days he easily was able to hit the SV6's limit. You could extend that by doing suspension and wheels and brakes to top shelf, but there stops that train. Anyway, you will find out soon enough I guess.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on October 14, 2009, 09:59:13 AM
GSXR/CBR/R-6 type 4 cyl 600's are really that good.
Buddha...stop agreeing with me. :D
Well thanks for the kind words. I look to the track people and elder gods of this site to get my info because you're the ones who know :thumb:, but I do have to trust my own experiences as well (limited though they are).
I will agree 100%, my friends are not great riders - which i partially attribute to them starting on 600cc machines (and not that many miles). I consider myself good, not great (yet), and after 10000 miles I feel like I know the GS and its (and mine, thus far) capabilities fairly well. I have been complemented on my skill by a lot of people, including HD guys (at the grocery store no less :icon_rolleyes:) and I use almost every ride to improve some skill. There are no tracks around here so - as much as I hate to say it - the street is my track (out on the country back roads mostly) but still in the city I use my rides to teach myself. My philosophy summed up is this: "I don't ride fast, but I ride aggressively".
Anyway... this thread got way off topic - Bluehaze thank you for the awesome vid :cheers:
Yea yea yea ... that's such a great idea, I also am a terrible rider cos I also started on 600's, ninja 600 was my first bike after a KB100 in india, then I bought a 650 nitehawk, then a virago 535, then a Katana 600 before I even saw a GS. So yea ... :thumb:, but for the havoc wreaked by 4cyl bikes, I'd be a really good rider. Like a racer ... maybe even MotoGP champion. Yea, beat it Rossi ... BTW that's a chick name ... Buddha is here.
Cool.
Buddha.
That looks like a fun track, what was it?
BTW, was that a scooter I saw out there at one point?
That was pacific raceways in WA state.
Bluehaze, you didn't happen to have the camera on when you went down did you?
yea video was on when i went down. That was a couple of hours after this video. Not very dramatic.. you just see the bike fall sideways..
No scooters on the track that i know of.
I thought I saw one at 1:01, but I just watched again and it isn't. Dude was riding like he was on one though!
Quote from: bucks1605 on October 14, 2009, 05:36:15 PM
I thought I saw one at 1:01, but I just watched again and it isn't. Dude was riding like he was on one though!
But ... but ... but ... that's only cos you're on the greatest machine ever made ... period, in the greatest color combination ever made ...
Cool.
Buddha.
Re: A peek at what GS can do on the track.