Nice forum here. My first post too!
Anyhow. . .
I don't even own a GS500, or any motorcycle for that matter.
(So technically, if I don't own a bike, it's impossible for me to be a squid, right?
And as a proper noobie I did look around for a section that says "Noobs Post Here" but this board seems a bit too laid back for such topics.
So here we go. . .
I was thinking about getting a bike since I got that second childhood thing going (yeah, I'm in my 50's). A little over a year ago I took a MSF course, got my "M" endorsement, picked up a 155cc scooter to fart around town on, and now I want more. The next logical step up would of course be a GS500F, right?
So I do some research and discover a controversial GS500 phenomena. It's the most unique thing I have ever come across. Half the people I talk to say the GS500 is the most wonderful sub-600cc bike ever created, and the other half say Please, Please, don't waste your money on a GS500 because in two weeks you'll be selling it to trade up to a "real" bike.
One impressive GS feature: I can pick up a 2 year old GS with 2K miles on it for about $3000. That is so cheap it feels criminal. Heck, I got $4500 tied up in my stinky 65 MPH scooter. Seems I can't go wrong with a GS500F, even if do happen to trade it at a loss in 6 months.
Oh yeah, my second choice was a DL650. I got a chance to ride an older one around the block this summer at a picnic. Geez, what a top heavy behemoth! But then again, I'm used to a 300 pound scooter so who am I to judge a Wee-Strom.
Glad I found you GStwin guys/gals.
Lots of good info on this "contraversal" bike. :)
Regards,
-Electrojake-
I was where you are a year ago. At 55 I took the MSF course. Instructor recommended something in the 450 to 650 cc range. I found a 2007 GS500F with only 400 miles on it and could not be happier. I routinely ride a 56 mile round trip commute and do 250+ mile rides on weekend. The GS500 will anything you can do on a bike, legally. To only thing I can say for a down side is the lack of aftermarket goodies to make the bike more touring friendly. But this site is the place to be to overcome that.
If you like the GS500F and it fits you, buy and others be hanged,
Keep the shiny side up and the rubber side down,
Chuck
Welcome to the board.
You should be a pretty good judge of how long you could last on a GS. How many miles have you put on your scooter? If you were tired of the power in a week you may do better to move to a 600. If you feel like you'd be fine on something less than a 600, you probably would. The fact that you're in your 50s is a good sign too, because you don't have to deal with the peer pressure to look cool anymore than us 20some year olds do, which is half the reason so many fast bikes sell in this country.
Aside from the addition of the fairing on the F model, the bike hasn't changed much in the past 20 years. $3000 is on the top end of what you should ever pay for a used GS, you can definitely find them in good shape under $2000 if you get one that's at least 5 years old. You could get a clean one for $3000, but you can also find a pretty decent CBR 600F4i/F4/F3 or a 98-2002 zx6r for that kinda money as well. Even a Yamaha yzf600r, which used to be their sportbike, has now been demoted to a light sport tourer, and might be up your alley for less than $3000. SV650s also are a good option, but they have a pretty high resale, so you're probably looking at no less than $3000 on one of those, no clue why.
Not trying to talk you into a bigger bike, because the GS is a great bike, and plenty of people here have been find putting 40k+ miles on them, but when I hear about people spending thousands on one, I wonder what's going on. I paid $1500 for mine. It's old, but it's still the same GS they've been making. Oh, forgot to mention, any of the previously mentioned bikes have much lower handlebars than the GS, except for the SV which can come with the same style.
Welcome.
I came "back to bikes" at about 53, ten yrs ago. I got a GS500 and rode it across Europe and had a a great time on it, yes I did eventually trade up to the 650 Bandit I ride now but it was a great deal.
The GS is a very very good "all rounder" and has the advantages of being the type of bike you can work on yourself if you want and this forum for good information and tech backup.
Enjoy.
welcome to the site!
I bought my GS500 3 months after my MSF course as a 'learner' bike, and then fell in love with it.
Quote from: Chuck500 on October 31, 2009, 08:39:16 PM
If you like the GS500F and it fits you, buy and others be hanged,
Keep the shiny side up and the rubber side down,
Chuck
Melding into the GS500 pedigree of enthusiasts may be exactly what the doctor ordered. The right bike and the right forum crew to support it. Thanks for your replies to my first post.
It seems that a couple of the things I was looking to evade are automatically avoided with the GS500 crowd. . .
1.) Woefully un-trained middle aged Harley riders that regard the rear brake pedal as the answer to every situation, using the absolute minimum of protective gear, and (
my favorite), their bike goes into winter storage as soon as temperatures dip below 58 degrees F. (
Come-on, you know the type)
2.) The youthful squid that frequently run their liter bikes on one wheel, (
be it front or rear) on public roads, at incredible rates of speed.
I will admit one thing here: Those young fellows have some incredible skill and reflexes. They have better control of a 500 pound liter bike than I can muster on my kids RM-85.
So. . .
As the frigid weather approaches the North East, used bike prices are sure to drop.
I have a feeling that soon I'll have a late model GS sitting in the garage. Since I like to wrench; a re-jet and an air-box mod will probably happen the first week.
Thanks again for the warm welcome!
-Ej-
P.S. If my statements in paragraph 1.) above resemble either of my two brother-in-laws, its purely coincidental. No, really!(http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/grin42.gif)
Regards,
-Ej-
Quote from: Electrojake on October 31, 2009, 07:52:25 PM
and the other half say Please, Please, don't waste your money on a GS500 because in two weeks you'll be selling it to trade up to a "real" bike.[/b]
These people are idiots.
Idiots?, Yes sir, I'm beginning to learn that.
With less than two years in the saddle I have also learned that street motorcycling has got to be one of the most misunderstood activities on the planet.
It's completely "different" than it looks to the average bystander. I soon found out that handling the bike is the easy part, its handling street traffic that is incredibly demanding. To say it's different than driving a cage is an understatement. I never realized the tremendous difference until I began to (street) ride myself. What a wake-up call! Practice, MSF, and studying authors like David Hough, Ken Condon and the like, have kept me from killing myself out there during a point in my career when I was simply too green to even realize I was in danger.
By now I thought I'd have this street riding gig mastered.
Not even close.
There is a lot more to this sport (art) than I had ever imagined.
Perhaps I'll hold off on the Busa and go with the GS for now. :thumb:
Fascinating sport you have here.
Glad to be getting a look at it from the inside.
-Ej-
I don't know what happened to *my* reply that I typed in last night. Must not have hit "Post".
Anyway, I came to motorcycling at 38, and had nothing more than scooter experience before then. I did all kinds of research before settling on a '97 GS500 E. After 6 months and 5000 miles, it was showing signs of long-term neglect and I traded up to an '05 F, which I had for nearly 2 years and 10,000 problem-free miles. Well, OK, the fork seals were shiat at 4,200 miles, but were replaced under warranty.
The GS is a great bike, not just a "first" bike. Cheap to buy, cheap to insure, usually cheap to fix, especially if you DIY. And you'll find this forum to be unusually helpful, and there seems to be an unofficial "specialist" for any possible mechanical problem you have. If you have to, say, swap handlebars, someone will have done it in the past and will be happy to provide 37 photographs in high-def, with sound and animated diagrams. It's like that in here.
About 2.5 years ago, I traded to a DL650 Wee-Strom. Yes, it does have a higher center of gravity, but you quickly adjust to that. In fact, last week I took an 80 mile ride for my first time with someone riding biatch, with no problems. It is also a highly capable bike that is faster than the GS AND it gets 58 mpg. I've got 10,000 miles on that now.
So...welcome to the insane asyllum! You'll get used to the smell in here. No, we've tried to air the place out, it's mostly a personal hygiene thing. :whisper:
Quote from: Electrojake on October 31, 2009, 07:52:25 PM
Nice forum here. My first post too!
....words....
-Electrojake-
gonna be interesting to read your posts if/when you buy a bike. check out the ninja 500 also. it's very similar in riding style, power, handling. the gs's engine seems to be more bullet proof, and there isn't liquid to worry about keeping it cool. the guys over at ex-500.com have a very similar and awesome forum, just figured i'd point you there. :)
you're completely right about the general riders attitude here. sure, we all have our mischeivious days, but for the most part it's about the ride, and not about showing off a chrome bit or a dyno-chart.
about the one 1/2 vs the other- got me... i don't like sitting on 10000 miles of concrete goldwingesque, or tearing about with 1/10th of my wits operating the machine either. as far as protection, the more the merrier. best protection ? that thar tater you got between your shoulders. all that dirt riding should keep you alive.
enjoy the ride, post some pics (this is mandatory for all the new guys ;) ) and be safe.
:)
I'm gonna say that a 600cc supersport (or beyond) is probably a bad idea - especially coming from a tiny scooter. There are many things that you don't have to worry about with the GS and you can build your skills and confidence - especially in the northeast. Extreme power/speed being one issue. Cold tires being another issue. More powerful brakes is another thing. You don't want to lock up the rear brake when you are going 55+ cause you twisted the throttle a little too much and panic - because you don't have the skills yet. These are just the issues I''ve seen in person - there are probably many more things to worry about. That said - these bikes are a huge rush... I won't deny that. And riding them on the street is almost effortless - first and second gear and and will take you up to beyond almost any speed limit in the country. But don't be fooled - these bikes are better than most of the people riding them (never mind the literbikes) and will not forgive you for your mistakes. Not trying to sound like a hater - but I don't want anyone with any sense (which you seem to have :thumb:) to end up a statistic because they started on something like this.
I have to say that for my money - the GS500 is the best starter street bike. Comfortable. Economical. Easy to fix. Easy to ride. You can build your skills easily - both riding and mechanic - and these will transfer to any bike you want to buy. And once you do a rejet the only real issue I can find with the GS - that being cold starts - will be gone. I also am recommending the SV650 these days - more power, similar reliability, better looking (IMO) , more modern (in other respects).
Anyway - I hope you enjoy whatever you pick up, and stay around this forum no matter what :cheers:
^ what they all said.
The GS is a great bike. If you intend to ride in late fall to winter in Jersey, be prepared for a 15 minute warm-up time. I owned a GS500E and, for a short time, a Ninja500 which belonged to my wife at the time though she never rode it, which means I got to 'exercise' her bike for her once in a while. I prefer the GS, personally. Both have divey front ends and archaic power plants, but I just liked the throttle response and handling a little better on the GS. Now that the bike's look has been freed from the 1980's, the GS is an easy choice (though if Kawasaki does to the Ninja500 what they did to the 250, I may change my tune).
After the GS, I rode an SV650 for two years, and have been riding a 600 SS for about two years now. I am fairly sure that I would be dead today had I decided to start on a "real" bike. Think about this: An 07 ZZR 600 with a rider my size packs roughly the power to weight ratio of a Corvette LT1; would you put an inexperienced driver in one of those?. Also, don't let the amount of time you spend from one bike to the next be a factor. Bike shopping is one of the most enjoyable activities a ride can engage in!
Good luck with your bike shopping :thumb:
The DL650 (Wee-Strom) is a GREAT bike. In fact, the guy who sold me my GS500E now owns a V-Strom 659 which I have ridden a couple of times. It has about 63HP (compared to 39HP for the GS), is fuel-injected with great mileage, and liquid cooled. It handles well and is a comfortable bike for me.
I love my GS500E and have put lots of miles on it, including a 2,000 mile trip and a 1,000 mile trip. It handles great (after Progressive springs) and is easy to maintain. It was cheap and has cost me very little to keep up.
I'd say that if you have eyes to tour, I'd opt for the V-Strom. There are easily available hard bags for it and it has plenty of power for touring with luggage into the wind (my GS50 struggles a little at times). You can't go wrong with either bike!
The DL650 or the SV both would be a dream to own but as Clint Eastwood once said, "A man's got to know his limitations".
I'm coming off a 300 pound scooter. I'd best stay with the GS for now. Plus I'd cry if I dropped $7000.00 worth of Wee-Strom.
As for the "type" of bike I'm interested in, the adventure/tourer genre fascinates me. I would feel the GS suits that more than the sporty Ninja.
Plus I do have a tendency to pack a little heavy: Maps, tools, tire plug kit w/c02, first aid stuff, spare fuel, water, extra visor, plus a selection of cold weather survival items when winter riding. My little 155 is set up like a BMW F800GS, including outlets for electric gloves & vest, on-board GMRS communications equipment, and a Ram mounted GPS system. It's a gadget junkie's dream.
I like to think that I could do a ring job at a stop light if I had to.
(But alas, no on-board air compressor or MIG welder). Yeah, I only have a 170 watt stator. :icon_neutral:
Besides, it's hilarious to watch my fat, balding, skunk-breath brother-in-law on his Road King follow me into a tight right hander at about 45 and see him totally miss the apex by trying to keep up with my super flickable 155cc scoot through the curve. Now mind you, I do get a little uneasy watching him blow right over the double yellows into the oncoming traffic and then glide that big beauty back into his own lane as if "he meant to do that", but the entertainment value of watching this self proclaimed outlaw biker blow it in the twisties is priceless.
Yeah, this GS thing is going to be fun.
Give me the check book honey,
I'm going shopping!(http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/grin47.gif)
-Ej-
P.S. Thanks for all the input.
I wish I had something to give back to the community here, but I guess it'll be a while before I get to that point.
The crew here has made this a great first thread.
Regards,
-Ej-
don't worry about helping out, that is a side effect of liking the forum. Just learn [the search feature is nifty for things like tires, exhaust and common mods at least for GSs], ask questions, practice with whatever you choose when you finally acquire two wheels and share the experiences along the way.
Oh yeah and welcome and what ^ said too
PS: avoid political treads ... they almost always end badly :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
Quote from: Electrojake on November 03, 2009, 03:55:37 PM
Plus I do have a tendency to pack a little heavy: Maps, tools, tire plug kit w/c02, first aid stuff, spare fuel, water, extra visor, plus a selection of cold weather survival items when winter riding. My little 155 is set up like a BMW F800GS, including outlets for electric gloves & vest, on-board GMRS communications equipment, and a Ram mounted GPS system. It's a gadget junkie's dream.
I'm the same way, I'm a commuter by nature, with a tendency to be overly prepared. I like to always have rain pants, a rain jacket, and everything else you can think of under your seat. That's why I'm always going to love these bikes.....
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3619/93599297.jpg)
Look at that trunk space!!!
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3445/3363078862_9ddb2ebf65.jpg)
One more bit of advice for you, EJ: Don't ask about oil. Trust me.
Read this:
http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,6707.0.html
I'm a comfy 53 years old. I can buy what ever I want.
But what I can't afford, is to drop a big new bike because I simply don't know what the hell I'm doing yet. Plus, I want to be comfortable out there, not frightened.
How's that old saying go. . .
Its more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than to ride a fast bike slow.
Some other items worth a mention. . .
* Hey tt_four, thanks for posting the pic's of your immaculate bike.
* I won't discuss politics or motor oil until my post count is at least 250.
* Speaking of which; the post count on some of you guys/gals is unbelievable. Well into the thousands! Wow.
* Thanks for the link to Sport-touring.net. I didn't know that community was out there.
* I see David Hough finally made it into the AMA Hall of Fame. Nice!
And finally. . .
It seems my (almost) new GS500F will be getting on the road at about the same time as the salt season. Last winter I (inadvertently) destroyed the finish on my scoot by winter riding. I didn't realize the calcium chloride and rock salt from the roads will corrode the bike almost instantly. I use a marine product called Salt-Away. It works wonders but I couldn't bear the thought of trashing the GS the way I scarred my little Yamaha. I didn't know bikes were so much more sensitive to road grime than a typical automobile.
Man, I learned that the hard way. :icon_sad:
-Ej-
That's not my bike, just one of my favorites. Trunk space is one of the things I always check out when I'm looking at a bike, and as much as I love a good undertail exhaust, I don't know if I could ever do it at the sacrifice of my under seat storage. I also doubt I'll ever get one because I'm partial to naked bikes, and those things just look goofy without the front fairing on there to make up for the huge back end. If I wanted a fully faired sportbike though, I'd be all over it.
Winter riding is a mess. I rode my last bike until there was too much ice on the ground to do it safely, and my bike came out alright. Not to stereotype, but I would assume a scooter would have a lot of parts made from cheap metal, covered in cheap paint, as opposed to a nicer motorcycle, so maybe that's why mine held up a little better. I tried to wash it frequently as well. The GS, although fun, does unfortunately have plenty of cheap parts made out of cheap metal. Nothing you can't sand and repaint when spring comes though. I pulled my GS out of storage after a 4-5 year hibernation. I started getting it ready in spring, but I took my time doing it, and didn't get it ready to go until the weather was going down hill. I decided to just hold off until spring because who wants to take a fresh bike out and get that taste in your mouth 2 weeks before you're going to put it away for the winter? I think it would've just made my winter that much longer.
If you look around you can also find forums based around beginner bikes. You're not technically a beginner since you've had the scooter, but they'll still give you good advice about what bikes are easier to learn on, and less lethal if you make a mistake, which seems to be what you're going for. I joined one about a month ago just for the conversation, but I can't remember what the website is anymore! :technical:
ohhh i thought that was your bike also..so beautiful..love it :thumb:
And when I looked into upgrading into a bigger bike from a ninja 250 I looked at the ninja 500, but there's something about a naked bike that stole my heart.
Bought my used GS for a simple $1000 and haven't looked back since. Absolutely love looking at her, spending money on her, and of course riding her.
Enjoy your bike, and btw I'm a scooter rider too.. :embarrassed:
Welcome and utilize the wiki page it really really answers almost all your questions.
A few notes from a fellow northeast noob rider.
Slip the clutch. In fact, never really engage it in first gear. It will save your life when:
The bike bucks due to being under carburated
Which is fixed by a Buddha jet kit.
Check the oil frequently.
Run the chain too loose, what seems like the right tension almost always binds.
If you are bigger than a size medium, you may find the bike lacking in suspension stiffness and possibly power at NJ highway speeds. I commute in NH, and it is fine until about 70MPH, where air drag dominates, so passing gets more difficult in traffic if you are tallish.
Other than that, a great bike.
Quote from: Dj Hunny on November 05, 2009, 12:35:28 PMEnjoy your bike, and btw I'm a scooter rider too.. :embarrassed:
Welcome and utilize the wiki page it really really answers almost all your questions.
Scooter you say?
I have a blast on my little 155cc Yamaha and I go much too far from home on some of my adventures. I got caught in a heavy snow squall once. It was at night too! It was kind of scary, but I made it home O.K.
And thanks for the Wiki tip! Lots of good info there.
And as for issues of
intergalactic magnitude. . .
I'm 6'3" and 190 Lb. I ride ATGATT so that make's for a rather large wind target. At 70 MPH on a 155cc scooter, a single gust of wind can slow you down to 55 MPH in about five car lengths. (Yeah, anemic but a good training tool till the GS arrives).
And since
intergalactic mentioned winter riding in Mass. & NH. . .
I find that it's not the cold that is bad, it the damn wind. I'm riding a 300 pound bike, dressed to the hilt, with 30 MPH cross winds. It's a real skill-builder for a rookie like me.
(God bless my windshield. No, really)
(http://www.yamaha-motor.com/assets/accessories/250/zuma09windshieldou-250.jpg)
After the windshield, buying a pair of electric gloves was the second Epiphany.
So now, a sunny 28 degree day in February is very do-able.
(Just please don't snow on me!)
Man I have a lot more questions about Buddha (who?), and jets, and air boxes, etc... but it's probably best I hold off on that stuff until I actually have the bike sitting in the shop, waiting for me to "violate" it. <
heh-heh> :icon_mrgreen:
Thanks for the continuous flow of tips and links.
The more I learn here, the better off I'm going to be when I go shopping for a used GS.
-Ej-
Quote from: Dj Hunny on November 05, 2009, 12:35:28 PM
ohhh i thought that was your bike also..so beautiful..love it :thumb:
Yes, those bikes are gorgeous, They also make the 2000-2001 version with the same paint job that looks almost as good. It's my all time favorite bike, and one I'd love to pick up some day, only the front fairing will get tossed and it'll be turned into a giant overpowered 4 cylinder version of the GS500.
(http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2001models/2001-Suzuki-GSX-R750.jpg)
I used to think about finding a scooter because I live in the city, but I decided to just keep an eye out on craigslist and grab a honda cb125 for $200-300 when one I like comes a long. My wife loves mopeds, so I've ridden hers on occasion, but I really don't care for going 30mph with a car tailing behind me because the rest of traffic is trying to go 40. At least on a bicycle I can just stick on the side of the road. She got my one too, but I haven't gotten it completely running yet. It starts and runs, but not good enough to take into traffic.
Quote from: Electrojake on November 05, 2009, 06:01:04 PM
but it's probably best I hold off on that stuff until I actually have the bike sitting in the shop, waiting for me to "violate" it. <heh-heh> :icon_mrgreen:
Word of advice, oft ignored - unless the bike you buy is a non-running basket case, put 3000 miles on it and THEN get with the modifying. :technical: If, in fact, it needs modifying. You'll have a much better idea of what YOU need to modify, .vs. what "THEY" say you "need" to modify. Or be a sheep, whichever. :dunno_white:
Thus far the main part I've needed to modify (and it may already be modified on a used bike) was to put in progressive springs for the fork springs. Various camps here are sure that those are too soft and you need race tech springs, or you need to swap out the whole front end for a GSXR front end. If you haven't ridden the bike a ways, you won't have much to base your decision of "what to do to it" on. The clunking as I crossed the railroad tracks pretty well said I needed to do something, and the lack of it after switching to progressives pretty much says they were an adequate solution, and I'm heavier than you are. But expectations and tastes in suspension harshness vary.
I wish some jackass hadn't pre-ectomized my fender, since I do ride in the wet, but I'm pretty well set on just making a whole new fender at this point, along with some more storage options. But first I need power to the shop, and then heat.
Oh, I did have to add a soup can to my exhaust, since some clever person cut out the whole rear baffle, so it was loud and also ran like crap, but of course making the exhaust loud and crappy is one of those mods some folks just have to do, apparently. The soup can is a close as I can come for as few dollars as possible to "return to stock" where the bike sounds reasonable and runs well. Coat of paint and it looks like it was made that way.
I also recovered the seat and added some foam to it, since I found the seat position uncomfortable on my creaky old knees (somewhat younger than yours, I guess, but creaky and old to me.)
Most everything else I've done has been in the direction of return to stock - fixed f-ed up fuel lines (stock vacuum petcock causing me no problems), fixed f-ed up clutch switch, improved but not yet fixed f-ed up paint job, replaced crapped out chain and sprockets, replaced missing tool-kit...
6'3"?
If you sit on one and find yourself wanting more room, the $17 footpegs help with legroom. Personally, I like my $10 eBay GSXR rear shock. For the stiffness, the 2" extra height, and the reduction in rake. But that's me. I have stiff front springs, too, but they might be a bit much, and I can't properly compare them to the stock forks which had nearly no oil in them.
Expect to eat some wind unless you have a fairing or newer faired one, too.
The GS500F bikes I have been looking at are 2005-2007 models with 1500 to 3500 miles on the clock. Note: I will NOT buy a modded bike. I know a little something about the dangers of buying a previously modded machine.
Ya see, my Son is a mechanic with numerous certifications and my wife is an ASE certified mechanic. (Yet neither work as mechanics) <go figure>
So, I have a shop (o.k., it's really just my garage) but I do have some goodies like a drill press, lathe, a milling machine, MIG welder, oxy/acetylene set, 12 ton press, pneumatic tools, pedestal grinders, etc... There's as much mechanical crap as my wife & son could pack in there and still have room for a project.
And no, I'm not a mechanic, but as you can see, have access to such.
I have seen some mighty scary creations (of my Son's) roll out of the garage over the years. About two summers ago he got his hands on a 1982 Suzuki GS850E. It was a death trap, but he managed to get the old junker running. I have learned that being "clever" when it comes to modding a bike can be a dangerous thing.
So I would agree with DoD#i, No previously modded bikes for me.
Nope, I want a virgin!
And the idea of putting a couple thousand miles on the bike while it's still stock in order to learn the machine first, seem's like very good logic.
tt_ mentioned mopeds. . .
I could write volumes, but I'll spare you my off-topic blabbing.
I also have a pair of custom built Lil' Indian mini bikes. One of which my Son fitted with a 265cc, 4 stroke thumper. So fast it's asinine. Most of the stuff in my shed is left over from my Son's childhood fabrication years. He's since moved on to larger toys.
As for intergalactic's comments. . .
Low pegs, high seat, a taller after-market windshield. These are the things that a tall, winter riding, adventure/tourer wanna-be such as me would love to investigate!
-Ej-
Most people feel the same way about buying a used bike. I can handle an aftermarket pipe and some new grips, but I definitely shy away from the power commander, neon lights, repainted, heavily geared down, and whatever other modded bikes you always see for sale. I'd much rather pick up a stock bike any day. People always get annoyed when no one wants to pay $2k more than MSRP for their used bike either, because they say they put $6k into it and only ride it 2000 miles, but mods usually decrease the value of a bike, and people usually end up eating the cost of their upgrades. If you're smart, you'll save all the stock parts, and just replace them all when they're ready to sell. All this coming from someone who loves streetfighters and modded bikes, and has no problem riding a bike that I have modded, but I don't trust other people's fingers. I'm even fine with buying a wrecked bike to built back up.
I'll see what kinda luck I have when spring rolls around and I try to sell a 92 GS with an R1 tail, cut up subframe, home made undertail, new paint job, and various other things, but I'll be selling cheap so no one better complain!
Those few mods I would do I have no problem buying a bike with - ie, progressive springs, back in the bad old days replacing ball bearing front bearings with tapered rollers (thankfully a bit more standard as stock these days), that sort of thing. As such, in ej's position I'd certainly look at a bike with higher seat, lower pegs, and a windscreen (and hard luggage, if one happened along that way.) You can always take off the modded parts and make sure the mod is up to snuff if you have doubts about it, but most of that would be obvious from inspection.
The mods I disliked about mine were acceptable given that the price was low, and I could undo them.
If you are going to strip the stock exhaust, turn signals, airbox, etc off the bike, and you have any intention of ever selling the bike, you'll do a lot better if you put those parts aside (to go with, or to be put back on - either works) rather than sell them off.
Personally I'd rather not have a bike that has ever had a K&N bugscreen pretending to be an airfilter on it, even if it comes with the stock airbox. They are not the most effective filtration for things that wear engine internals.
On the other hand, I'm free to do pretty much whatever weird thing I like with mine, since I don't have any plans to sell it - not that I have any turn-signal and airbox removing plans for it. On the third hand, I had no plans to sell my Seca Turbo, but it's stuck between too much work to get it on road and too good to throw away at the moment. It's not actually modified at all, though it did come with some plastic wear and tear, and get more while I was riding it. But trying to sell it as is is a no-win prospect, so it takes up space and induces feelings of guilt.
As for my first encounter with a GS. . .
About six months ago I was in my local Yamaha dealer picking up some parts for a trany job I was doing and I was introduced to my very first GS500F. My Son brought the GS to my attention while I was nearby drooling over a brand new FZ6.
"Hey Dad look, carburetors!" he said with a bounce in his voice.
It was a blue & white, 2005, rather dusty GS500F with 650 miles on the odo.
I walked over to the used bikes section of the showroom to give it a closer look. It had obviously been dropped repeatedly on both sides and the gas tank had a rather odd dent in the top right side.
The dealer walked over and said, "oh yeah, we sell used bikes too!"
I said to the dealer, "how the hell could a 4 year old bike be in this tattered of condition and only have 650 miles on it?
The dealer said, "Thats easy, a girl owned it".
Needless to say, it was fortunate that my wife wasn't there at the time. (http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/glare.gif) As a matter of fact, her and my Son just got back from the Rhinebeck Grand National Super Meet that weekend. Yeah, a comment like that in the wrong crowd could get messy.
But back to the story here. . .
"A girl?" I thought to myself. Geez, my 13 year old daughter can put 650 miles on a moped in a 4 day weekend. So what's the story with this old GS? I gave the sad GS another look and then walked away without ever asking the price. Knowing damn well the dealer would have said $4900 as-is.
Closing thought. . .
Some of the prices on CraigsList for 2007 to 2009 used bikes are insanely low. Why do these people sell a year old GS with 2500 miles on it for less than half of what they paid 12 months earlier?
Cant help but wonder,
-Ej-
P.S. I looked up that Seca thing. . .
A turbo bike? Interesting!
I didn't know these things existed. Cool machine!
(http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/1983-yamaha-xj-650-seca-turbo-1.jpg)
Quote from: Electrojake on November 06, 2009, 05:36:24 PM
The dealer walked over and said, "oh yeah, we sell used bikes too!"
I said to the dealer, "how the hell could a 4 year old bike be in this tattered of condition and only have 650 miles on it?
The dealer said, "Thats easy, a girl owned it".
Closing thought. . .
Some of the prices on CraigsList for 2007 to 2009 used bikes are insanely low. Why do these people sell a year old GS with 2500 miles on it for less than half of what they paid 12 months earlier?
Cant help but wonder,
-Ej-
Sounds like an ass. I probably would've said something and just walked out,
and as far as your question, it's pretty easy, and there's 2 main reasons it happens.
1) someone bought it, then decided they needed gsxr1000 to keep up with their friends on the highway, so they walked into the dealership and asked how much the downpayment was on the gsxr1000, and the salesman gave them a number, and that's what their GS is selling for.
2) the economy destroyed itself, someone needs money, and just wants it gone as fast as they can.
3) forgot about this one.... some people get in over their head, scare themselves 5 too many times, and after they're too afraid to to ride it, and it sits in the back of their garage for a year, they just want it gone.
Quote from: Electrojake on November 06, 2009, 05:36:24 PM
A turbo bike? Interesting!
I didn't know these things existed. Cool machine!
Yup. A fad in the early 80's - quickly over when they figured out that it was far less complex and killed less idiots to build a 900 for about the same weight and power as the 650 turbos. Later on they seem to have figured out how to put that much power in a non-turbo 600 with a lot less weight. The power curve made problems for squids not brought up on 2-strokes, I guess. If you ride like a reasonable person, it just rolls in and makes things go nicely. Two up, rolling hills, smooth as silk. If you play squidly games, especially if you first played the squidly "wire the waste gate closed" game to get more boost, the thing would spin the rear tire at 80 mph if you popped the throttle - no personal experience with that, I never had the urge to play that particular game.
A bike made for only 2-3 years some 27 years ago is somewhat problematic, and I've pretty well seen that I could buy one that someone else had restored for less than it would cost me to restore mine, but that isn't quite the point - but I'm not all that dedicated to spending lots of time or money on restoring it, so I don't know what the point is anymore, but I have an old bike taking up space, and the rubber bits all fail with old age. It is/was comfortable as all get out, though - despite being a cutting edge sport bike of 1982, it still had nice UJM ergonomics in terms of seating position. Of course, it also has the pair of rear shocks common to the era, the handy shaft drive that meant the GS500 was the first chain I've ever had to deal with on a bike, the weird sealed carburetors for working with the turbo that are probably impossible to find a rebuild kit for these days, etc, etc... so I bought a GS500.
Quote from: DoD#i on November 06, 2009, 08:25:59 PM
I've pretty well seen that I could buy one that someone else had restored for less than it would cost me to restore mine,
I know the situation well. :D
An elderly fella up the road from me is selling his 1978 GL1000 Gold Wing and a 1982 GS650E for cheap. He's 75 years old and has evidently decided to hang up his leathers for the last time. The GS is garbage, but the Gold wing is nice. I myself simply don't have the resources (or patience) to do a proper restore.
And as for the comment that dealer made about the girl. . .
I wasn't offended, just a little confused. Whoever this "girl" was, must have had one hell of a difficult 650 miles. Man that GS was tattered bad on both sides. It looks like she kept going down, and then trying again until after 650 miles of dropping the damn thing all over town, she just gave up. I'm kinda new at this stuff but I bet a more experienced rider could examine the damage and make a pretty good determination of what she went through.
If it helps, some of my early topics have pics of the GSXR rear schock mod, like I said, $10 on eBay. But you have to grind some parts to get it to fit.
I have a windscreen I haven't fitted yet, but a later bike- an 'F' might be fine?
The footpeg mods are well detailed in the Wiki. The shock is not as well detailed, but sounds like you have a decent home garage.
I haven't ridden a late 3 circuit carb bike, I hear they run a bit better. On really hot days a two circuit 40/125 is a bit overfuelled. But when it is cool out it rocks. It ALMOST gets rid of the flat spot around 5K. Like I say, a later 3 circuit carb might take care of this? So a 2005 or later 'F' might be fine, or you might eventually want a shock and footpegs. But the rest might be fine?
As for intergalactic's comments. . .
Low pegs, high seat, a taller after-market windshield. These are the things that a tall, winter riding, adventure/tourer wanna-be such as me would love to investigate!
-Ej-
[/quote]
Quote from: Electrojake on November 06, 2009, 09:40:17 PM
Man that GS was tattered bad on both sides. It looks like she kept going down, and then trying again until after 650 miles of dropping the damn thing all over town, she just gave up
My first bike was a 1983 yamaha xt550,
(http://www.bikez.com/pictures/yamaha/1983/18418_0_1_2_xt%20550%20%28reduced%20effect%29_Image%20credits%20-%20Maurice%20Bronnenberg%20%28NL%29.jpg)
I could barely get my feet down to save my life. "learning to ride" was my dad taking me up to my uncles camp and telling me to give it gas while I let the clutch out. I spent about 5 hours riding around and falling over. I dropped the bike plenty of times on the street too. With how you describe that bike, it sounds to me like she had a boyfriend or some guy friends that all had sportbikes, and just told her to get on and ride, without anyone actually showing her how to take it slowly, same as I went through. I'm only 5'8, and even though the GS has to be shorter than that xt550, there's probably good chance she was somewhere between 5'0-5'4, which would put her in the same position on the GS as I was on that yamaha.
I need to get some saddle time on a stock bike so I have an intelligent reference point to start modding from. I know a taller windshield and a set of jets will be first on the list though. Riding is wonderful but man I love to scour through the shop manual and wrench away.
I just ordered a new 32mm Mikuni throttle body and an oversized injector for my Yamaha. I promised myself that this would be the last mod for the little Yamy. I have to get serious about pointing my finances toward the GS500 or it will never happen. It would be wise of me to get the new bike before the first snow storm of the season hits. Being snowed-in all winter with a new bike in the garage would be maddening!
Closing thoughts. . .
A Yami xt550 is a very spirited bike to learn on! One hell of a step-over height for a noobie too. Sounds like Dad was (is) a cool guy!
I find it odd that the majority of the bikes here on the forum are the non-faired, pre-2004 type.
It's very interesting that most of you GS lovers like the older bikes. :icon_question: :confused: :icon_question:
-Ej-
Quote from: Electrojake on November 10, 2009, 04:00:48 PM
Closing thoughts. . .
A Yami xt550 is a very spirited bike to learn on! One hell of a step-over height for a noobie too. Sounds like Dad was (is) a cool guy!
I find it odd that the majority of the bikes here on the forum are the non-faired, pre-2004 type.
It's very interesting that most of you GS lovers like the older bikes. :icon_question: :confused: :icon_question:
-Ej-
Haha, the point of that story is that no one ever taught me how to properly ride a bike when I started, so I can see very easily someone, girl or not, could trash the sides of their first bike. He is a good guy though.
I don't really know that it's people here liking older and naked bikes, I think it's us liking $1000-1500 bikes, and that's what you get for that kinda money.
Regarding turbocharged bikes, I read somewhere that they could be unpredictable coming out of a curve...like a sudden spurt of power you might not be expecting if you weren't used to it. I think it was in an article or letter about why nobody makes a (mainstream market) turbodiesel bike. (I know there is one used by the military). The argument "against" a turbodiesel bike is kinda the opposite -- not having enough "expected" power coming out of a curve, rolling onto the throttle, THEN getting the power you expect a little later than you expect.
Still, with gas (petrol) being as expensive as it is, I'm surprised the UK or Germany does not have a commonly available turbodiesel bike. (Think of the mileage it would get, and it could be pretty darn fast on autobahns!)
Quote from: Electrojake on November 10, 2009, 04:00:48 PM
I find it odd that the majority of the bikes here on the forum are the non-faired, pre-2004 type.
It's very interesting that most of you GS lovers like the older bikes. :icon_question: :confused: :icon_question:
:thumb: Newer is not always better. More plasticated is not always better. There is, on the one hand, a style difference. Some folks buy F's and turn them back into E's, since Suzuki decided the US and/or all of North America doesn't need E's any more. To some folks, it just looks like a proper motorcycle should. Not really my particular bandwagon, but it's a reason.
:thumb: On the wallet end, aside from "Older being cheaper to buy" there's "naked being cheaper to drop". It's quite literally possible to "total" a plastic covered bike (from the insurance point of view, of course) without doing any damage to any functional part of the bike. Plastic cracks and scratches easily, is difficult to repair well, is expensive to buy, and if you have to make it be "just like new" to keep an insurance company happy, the stickers cost as much or more than the plastic under them does.
Of course, with older being cheaper to buy, my preferred approach of not having an insurance company involved in anything but liability coverage is easier to manage, too. Collision coverage, like the lottery, is a sucker bet.
At this point in time, an E model GS is probably the closest thing you can buy to a "UJM" without getting involved in a 30 year old UJM parts/maintenance headache. While the marketing gurus at the cycle makers appear to think that there are only markets for "cruisers" and "crotch rockets" (and perhaps a few "2-wheeled land yachts") it's interesting to note that the current price for a run of the mill 1982 bike in working condition is pretty similar (or even higher) to what it was in 1989, as best I recall. At least part of that is the lack of much production in the UJM sector of the market for the past 20 years. You'd like a bike with less than 900 CCs displacement that doesn't force you to be scrunched up like you are a dog humping a chair leg or laid out like a drunk in a la-z-boy? Not a lot of choice in current production bikes.
Perhaps UJMs don't sell at the dealerships, but they certainly used to, and plenty of E model GS's did as well. I find that new and newer used bikes, like new and newer used cars, cost too much for what they are and lose value too fast for me to waste my money on them, even when I "have enough" that I "could" buy one new. I could, but it would be one of the worst investments I could make. So I don't.
Quote from: Caffeine on November 10, 2009, 05:32:31 PM
Regarding turbocharged bikes, I read somewhere that they could be unpredictable coming out of a curve...like a sudden spurt of power you might not be expecting if you weren't used to it. I think it was in an article or letter about why nobody makes a (mainstream market) turbodiesel bike. (I know there is one used by the military).
Having ridden my turbocharged bike for several thousand miles, I can report without having to depend on something I read that only someone acting like an idiot would have that problem.
I haven't looked into the military diesel bike in a while (it's mostly about the military being able to operate on one fuel, and not having to have gasoline around for anything), but I don't recall it being turbocharged at all. Since they keep claiming they are constantly "delayed" selling it to the public, it remains a curiosity rather than anything I need to pay too much attention to. Looks like 611cc and a whopping 30 hp. In fact, if you read the company info, they state that "the aim is to produce the best possible power and torque without the need for turbocharging." 96mpg, though.
http://www.dieselmotorcycles.com/engineering.htm (http://www.dieselmotorcycles.com/engineering.htm)
I seem to recall an Indian company making a 250cc diesel one-cylinder job that gets 250 miles per gallon or so, but it's not exported. And that one is definitely anemic, but probably beats pedalling with 7 adults, 5 children, 200 lbs of bananas and three chickens on board - you know, perfectly average tropical motorcycle loading.
(http://photos.imageevent.com/motorbiker/newspics3/Heavy-load-balancing.jpg)
oh shaZam!, look at grandma hanging on for dear life. I can't even figure out how she's staying on there.
Wow, nice post!
DoD#i, you pretty much covered it all.
Plus, your analysis of UJM's, crotch rockets, and cruisers had me rolling on the floor. I couldn't help but laugh because it's all true. (http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/lol.gif)
-Ej-