My recent unscheduled employment gap has left me with a lot of free time so I killed some time today prepping an old Honda Shadow for a repaint. The bike had already been repainted once before so there were multiple layers of paint. I decided to chemically strip the tank to bare metal and start from scratch. That also revealed a dent that had been bondo-ed. Here'e some pics of today's progress.
-Jessie
The stripped and sanded tank
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/stripped1.jpg)
The dented spot. I will be digging out the old bondo and redoing it at a later date
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/dent.jpg)
Basic auto store primer to hold back the rust
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/rustprimer.jpg)
Painting in my typical less than ideal circumstances
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/primed1.jpg)
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/primed2.jpg)
It's a bit cold out so I brought it inside to dry over night
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/primed3.jpg)
Looks good so far. What color?
Lookin' good! I can't wait to see how it turns out.
Hmm.... not that I don't like a good tank repaint, but I've gotta say I was disappointed when I opened this thread after reading the title. I initially read it as if it was "killing time", not as if you were killing time. Kinda like "dinner time" is time for dinner, "killing time" is time for killing. Right?
TT_four- Sorry to disappoint you... :2guns: O0 There, I shot afro man for you :D
Pavi- Thanks, I'll post pics as the project progresses
ver4- No idea on color yet, that's Kay's department since she'll be riding it. Matte uranium like a Honda 919 would have been my choice but she shot that color down. We're going to swing by that Sherwin Williams store by your gym and check out the chip charts one day next week. As long as it doesn't have any ghey pink graphics.... :laugh: Have you put any thoughts into repainting your bike?
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on November 13, 2009, 07:44:15 AM
As long as it doesn't have any ghey pink graphics....
-Jessie
Now you just forced me to chime in- you're ridiculous. Let me remind you- the last bike we painted was originally a SPARKLE pink that you couldn't resist to ride around Baltimore. You were even sorry that I wanted to change the color. So ver4- if you do decide to paint 'ghey pink', by all means, do so. Just know that I won't be the one asking to ride it.
Actually, I don't know why I didn't browse through the whole thing last time, as I am actually pretty interested in painting bikes. Haven't done much beyond spray painting the GS, but I'm looking to get a decent enough first spray gun over winter so I can try to do some nicer paint jobs. When I say decent, I'm hoping to not spend more than $100, and am just compairing the quality to the $35-45 ones they have at home depot. I know $100 really isn't all that great for a paint gun.
Unfortunately now that I'm looking through this again, I'm at work and can't actually get the pictures to load, so I'll check it out better when I'm at home, but how are you actually going to paint it? Do you have a paint gun, or are you just picking up spray paint at sherwin williams that happens to be nicer than what they have at home depot?
I asked some questions on another board I'm on where people do a lot of custom work to bikes, and even though I'm just looking to get started, I got attacked with people telling me I need 3 seperate spray guns and all kinds of other things that were over my head, bringing me up to at least a couple hundred more than I wanted to spend. Since you say you're painting in your "typical less than ideal circumstances", I'm much more curious what you're doing, as opposed to all those guys with dedicated painting spaces and really nice equipment."
Kay, I do not plan on painting my bike a ghey pink. lol
Jessie, I need to figure out how much money I have for a project. I have a client who went on vacation and I don't get paid when he's on vacation and that's going to take a big chunk out of the pay. However, if I do paint it, I want to keep it a red color.
tt_four- We are using decent equipment in less than ideal circumstances. The prep work on this will be done with bondo for the big dent and some dings, glazing putty for small imperfections, and rattle can primer. The first coat of primer is a rust inhibitor because I (edit: with the help of Kay :kiss3: ) stripped to bare metal, from this point on I will use a high build sandable primer. In the past I have used House of Colors Y2K Urethane primer in a real paint spray gun. For convenience/cost I will be using rattle can primer on this project. The base coat/clear coat will be sprayed with a gun. On a bike like this (tank and small fenders) I should be able to easily get away with only 1/2 a quart of each and still have a little left over. If you don't have multiple layers of paint you can get away with just scuffing up the original paint. Some people paint right over that but I prefer to prime it to get a uniform base color. This bike had already been repainted once over top of the original paint. If you already have spray painted yours once I would sand back down (or chemically strip for the metal tank, not the plastic fairings!!) before recoating. If you get too many layers of paint it will look like a cracked M&M if you ding it.
A good paint job is 90% prep work. The more effort you put into the prep, the better your end results will be. Depending on your starting point and the end result you are looking for there can be many hours involved with priming, sanding and glazing to get a nice smooth surface. It is the labor time involved that makes paint work at a shop expensive, the materials are relatively cheap in comparison.
You can get a decent paint gun for around $100 if you shop around. You will also need a pressure regulator, a decent air compressor and a "last chance" inline filter. I like the filters that change color when they are worn out. Check out Eastwood Automotive for some ideas of what's available: http://www.eastwood.com/paint-equipment/paint-guns.html?order=price&dir=asc The biggest challenge with any spray gun no matter the price is getting the spray pattern dailed in. Even a top quality gun will give a horrible blotchy finish if you don't have it adjusted corectly. You don't need to have multiple guns but you will need different tips for spraying different paints. Primers are generally thicker than clears which are general thicker than base coats...
Then your next consideration is what type of paint you will be using. The cheapest and easiest paint to spray is acrylic enamel. We call it "playground paint" because that is what is used on playground equipment and industrial equipment. It covers well with minimal coats and is pretty durable once cured. If sprayed correctly it can give you a decently nice end result. The industry standard now is urethane base coat/clear coat. That will give you the best quality results but becuase it takes multiple coats of paint (typically 3 color coats & 2 clear coats) there are more chances to get dirt/debris in the paint. Most small imperfections lift to the top of the paint and can be sanded out. You also have more chances for runs if you spray too heavy but they can be minimized with sanding too. There are also things called tack rags you use to wipe the parts down before spraying and between color coats. And simple things like wetting the floor can help keep dust from kicking up. Check out TCP Global for painting supplies: http://www.tcpglobal.com/ For Kay's bike she got a special paint color from Sherwin Williams that sprayed really nice. That is the first time using their paint so I can't attest to durability yet. Check this thread for more info on that paint project: http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=50627.0
Kay- I was referring to the faded tank graphic on Victor's bike, it looks pink. And yes, I did enjoy rocking the Barbie GS. Pig noticed me riding around on that before he even knew it was me on it. I still had the long hair at the time so I just looked like an ugly fat woman :D
Victor- I'm with you on the funds shortage thing, that's why this is a rattle can project so far. I need to strike a balance between broke and boredom at the moment. Check out that TCP site for different production color reds and see if any are in your price range.
Well that's all the babble I have to spew at the moment, time to go bondo...
-Jessie
Edit:
tt_four- Had an after thought after writing the above. Since this would be your first time using a spray gun it would probably be a good idea for you to use a canned primer like the Y2K so you could get used to the dynamics of a spray gun before spraying the top coats.
Some more boredom averted and time killed......
-Jessie
Going back a step, here's the stripper I used for the tank which is available at any hardware store. Dab on a heavy coat in one section with a paint brush, wait for it to do it's magic, scrape away the loose paint with a putty knife, repeat many times over until it's pretty much all gone. WEAR GLOVES, that stuff is nasty. Once done, give it a good scrubbing with soap and water to remove all the stripper. I use regular old dish soap and a brush. Don't worry about getting water in the tank, once you are done you can flush the tank out with rubbing alcohol to evaporate the water. Buy the highest concentration of alcohol you can find. Rubbing alcohol is also a cheap alternative for wiping the tank down before painting and during sanding. There will still be some paint left so give the tank a good sanding and wipe down before priming. Prime soon afterward to prevent surface rust from forming. I don't bother stripping the bottom of the tank since that will not be visible once installed.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/stripper.jpg)
My original intent was to remove all the old bondo in case it has absorbed the paint stripper but that proved to be more trouble than it was worth. I chipped away with a screwdriver for a while but made little progress. Since the bondo was still holding tight and the primer seemed to adhere to it ok I decided just to coat over top of what remained.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/prebondo1.jpg)
There was also a shallow dent in the top of the tank that needed a little attention. It was only visible when looking at the tank from an angle. For being 26 years old the tank is stil in pretty good shape. There is some surface rust in the channels but I don't think I want to bother with coating the inside of the tank. If you are planning on coating your tank, do it before you start doing the prep work because inevitably the tank will get dinged, smudged or spilled on during that process.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/prebondo2.jpg)
Gallon of Bondo body filler, about $25 at Home Depot. You can also buy it in quarts for about $10 but Kay's old Geo is getting some cancer around the wheel wells so I have a use for the rest of the can.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/bondo1.jpg)
Body filler spreaders, gloves and sand paper are other necessary items.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/bondo2.jpg)
Bondo is a 2 part system. The red paste is a hardener and the gray stuff is the plastic body filler. A piece of cardboard makes a nice disposable palette.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/bondo3.jpg)
When mixed correctly you get a pink color, make sure you knead it thoroughly. I have a bad habit of using too much hardener.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/bondo4.jpg)
Apply a nice smooth coat over the area you are filing. Go larger than the problem area so you can feather in the body lines while sanding. Since it's cold out here that will take a while to dry before sanding. Repeat the process as necessary to get the desired result. Small imperfections can be filled with glazing putty later. If you are inexperienced at sanding use a sanding block to prevent unwanted lines. That's all 4 now folks...
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/bondo5.jpg)
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/bondo6.jpg)
I decided to tackle the top of the tank first since it will be the easiest. Recreating the curves on the front dent will take a lot more effort.
-Jessie
Top dent sanded
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/topdent1.jpg)
Tank rubbed down with alcohol prior to priming
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/topdent2.jpg)
After priming you can really see how good (or bad) of a job you did. Ideally you shouldn't be able to tell where the repair was. If you look closely you can still see the outline of the bondo, that will require some more sanding to smooth it out and then some glazing putty to blend it in. A project for another day....
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/topdent3.jpg)
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on November 13, 2009, 12:01:19 PM
tt_four- We are using decent equipment in less than ideal circumstances. The prep work on this will be done with bondo for the big dent and some dings, glazing putty for small imperfections, and rattle can primer.
Hey, thanks a lot for all the info any pictures. That was my initial plan, to get one gun and try different tips, but people said not to. I'll probably go that route anyway. Just to get the hang of it I may go to home depot or harbor freight and spend $35-40 on a gun just to play with, paint some random metal scraps and whatever else and get the hang of it. Then once I'm used to it I could pick up a nicer one, and just use the cheap one for primer. I'll probably use spray primer for a little while, or at most just some rustoleum as it's pretty cheap for a small container of it.
I already have a decent compressor with an inline filter(planning ahead for painting). The compressor has a regulator on it, but I'll get another one just for the gun. Pretty much I'll just have to get a gun and some paint and I'll be good to go.
Ooh, one other question.... How do you store your paint? I've used a lot of rustoleum in the past, just brushed on, but every time I open the can I have to pull out the 1/8th inch skin from the top. Are there any better ways to store paint? I was thinking of saving some jars from random kitchen condiments, I figure they'll seal better than the paint can, but I wasn't sure if there were any good painters secrets for that one.
No problem man, I hope others can learn from my experiences/mistakes ;) I have some older spray guns I rarely use you can borrow if you want to experiment. You can get decent results from lower end equipment if you have a good set up/technique. I used those guns with acrylic enamel. Someone borrowed my old school pre-HVLP gun that worked great and didn't clean it afterward, it's pretty much useless now. Zylene is a nasty chemical but works great for cleaning. Just don't spill it in your crotch in a garage with no running water, ask me how I know.... :oops:
Paint will always go bad if stored too long, you can only hope to prolong the process. A cheap and easy way to seal a paint can better is to put a plastic grocery store bag over the opening before you hammer the lid back on. The "last chance" filter I'm referring to is a small inline filter that mounts on the spray gun just prior to the regulator, it helps catch anything your normal compressor water separator misses. And make sure if you have an inline oiler for air tools that you remove that prior to running a paint gun. I'll post more pics/tips etc. as they come to mind. Have a good weekend.
-Jessie
I looked at the list of paints about two hours ago and they all kind of look the same. At least the reds did. :cookoo: :dunno_black:
Yea Victor,
it is hard to look at colors on a monitor, it's best to get a chip chart. That's why we are heading to Sherwin Williams next week. Another way to go is to find a car color that you like and get a paint code for it, then a paint store can match it. A lot of cheap Korean cars have really nice paint colors IMHO (Hyundais/Kias).
-Jessie
Quote from: ver4 on November 13, 2009, 09:29:16 PM
I looked at the list of paints about two hours ago and they all kind of look the same. At least the reds did. :cookoo: :dunno_black:
I found that looking online at paint chips is a horrible way to choose paint. Unless, that is, you really don't care about what color you get. Ver4, go to the Sherwin Williams store by the gym and check out the colors. Take the chip charts outside in the sun- that's when you'll really see the color. And of course- I don't mind if you paint your bike the same as mine- it really is a nice color.
QuoteI found that looking online at paint chips is a horrible way to choose paint. Unless, that is, you really don't care about what color you get. Ver4, go to the Sherwin Williams store by the gym and check out the colors. Take the chip charts outside in the sun- that's when you'll really see the color. And of course- I don't mind if you paint your bike the same as mine- it really is a nice color.
Kay, I agree. You guys did a real good job with the last paint job.
Found a picture of the "Barbie GS" (or "Pink Panther" as Kay called it).
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/pinkpanther.jpg)
That tank and those plastics have been repainted now. We are planning a rebuild/modification of Kay's bike over the winter, those parts will go back on once that is done.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/kaypaint.jpg)
Her bike is currently riding around with the beat up black tank and plastics from my '89 GS.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/headingout.jpg)
One day when I get a burr up my as I'll repaint the old Nighthawk. It has led a rough life (started out as a MSF training bike) and is still the most reliable thing I ever owned. The only problem is I still use it to teach friends how to ride since it is already beat up, can't do that once it has a nice finish on it :laugh:
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/nighthawk.jpg)
-Jessie
Kay should have kept the pink. :P
Completely off topic, but I thought I was tearing up those turns in Loch Raven today. Probably th fastest I've went through them without thinking about applying the brake. :thumb:
Someone has taught me well. ;)
You know, when I saw your red jacket behind me I thought you had passed Kay in those turns :laugh: You have come a long way in a short period of time though! The most important thing is you don't take dumb risks and ride within your comfort zone, I made many stupid (and possibly deadly) mistakes before I learned that important lesson! Just be glad you didn't have a virgin on the back :o In all seriousness though Kay's friend did really well as a passenger. A few times I had to look at our shadow on the ground to make sure she was still back there. That may also have something to do with the fact that my left leg probably weighs more than she does...
That was actually one of the best rides I've had in a while. Carrying a passenger really makes me concentrate on my riding. My shifting and braking is smoother and I'm a lot more alert. The closest call of the day was that dumb blonde in the Jeep Wrangler that nearly plowed us over while we were stopped in the High's parking lot. And unlike most idiots she wasn't even on a cell phone! Hopefully this warm weather sticks around a little longer so we can get another ride in..
-Jessie
By the way, did you notice the sign that said "Frozen Turkey Drive"?? The first thought that popped in my head was "that's a weird name for a road"... took a minute before it dawned on me that it was a charity food drive :D
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on November 15, 2009, 06:42:28 PM
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/kaypaint.jpg)
So how're you planning on fitting both of those fenders on the bike?
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on November 15, 2009, 06:42:28 PM
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/nighthawk.jpg)
That windscreen is pretty awesome. I've always just worn extra gear, sometimes heated whenever winter came, but next time winter comes I'm just getting myself one of those. No reason to screw around. Does it make the bike feel weird once you're up to a speed where wind is actually hitting the bike with some force?
The tentative plan is to use the front end off the CBR on Kay's bike but in case that doesn't happen we painted the GS fender too. I personally love the windscreens, Kay hates them. She likes the "wind in the face feel." I do too when that wind isn't freezing my cheeks off :laugh: My '01 came with a windshield (can't remember the model but it is similar to the Nighthawks) and I thought it was ugly. My friends called it the CHiP's windshield. Once the weather got colder I grew to love it. On the GS I can not notice any real handling difference but without the wind noise at speed you can really notice how mechanically noisy our bikes are. Shortly after I decided to ad a windscreen to the Nighthawk for winter commuting. I wanted the biggest one I could find. If I remember correctly that one is a Plexistar 3 from National Cycle. It extends down further on the fork tubes than my GS's one to help keep the wind off your legs. Once the mounting hardware is installed it only takes a minute to take the windshield on and off. On the Nighthawk I was worried about how it would affect performance, with my 250lb frame it already struggles to hold highway speeds on an incline. The windshield must have made it a lot more aerodynamic because it actually increased it's top speed on the highway :o
-Jessie
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on November 15, 2009, 09:40:52 PM
You know, when I saw your red jacket behind me I thought you had passed Kay in those turns :laugh: You have come a long way in a short period of time though! The most important thing is you don't take dumb risks and ride within your comfort zone, I made many stupid (and possibly deadly) mistakes before I learned that important lesson! Just be glad you didn't have a virgin on the back :o In all seriousness though Kay's friend did really well as a passenger. A few times I had to look at our shadow on the ground to make sure she was still back there. That may also have something to do with the fact that my left leg probably weighs more than she does...
That was actually one of the best rides I've had in a while. Carrying a passenger really makes me concentrate on my riding. My shifting and braking is smoother and I'm a lot more alert. The closest call of the day was that dumb blonde in the Jeep Wrangler that nearly plowed us over while we were stopped in the High's parking lot. And unlike most idiots she wasn't even on a cell phone! Hopefully this warm weather sticks around a little longer so we can get another ride in..
-Jessie
By the way, did you notice the sign that said "Frozen Turkey Drive"?? The first thought that popped in my head was "that's a weird name for a road"... took a minute before it dawned on me that it was a charity food drive :D
Yeah, that blonde chick was stupid as hell. She didn't even seem phased that she almost seriously injured three people. That kid that was outside was like, "yo, that girl almost plowed over your homeboys." I was thinking to myself, "aren't we in Hereford?".
You seemed to be doing fine with the girl. I wasn't paying much attention during the greetings, so I'm assuming it's Kay's friend?
I didn't notice the Frozen Turkey Drive, but that's funny none the less. :)
I'm pretty much free tomorrow if you want to go for a ride. I can go into work around 11 and be out by 1, and if you want we can ride for 2 or 3 hours.
Kay wants to take me to the gym with her but she has to be at work around 1 so I'm free after that. Hopefully the weather holds!!
-Jessie
Made a little more progress on the tank today. I started roughing in the body lines on the side dent and smoothed out the top dent more. It still needs a lot more sanding...
-Jessie
The bondo was dry on the side dent so I roughed in the shape with coarse sand paper. Sometimes when you have a dent like this on a body line i is easier to hammer the body line down with a ball pein hammer and recreate the entire line in bondo. The downside being if you drop the bike bondo damages a lot easier than metal.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/sidedent1.jpg)
There is a small chip about 1/8" deep that will need to be filled with bondo. You can see it better once the tank has been wiped down with alcohol.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/sidedent2.jpg)
Once painted you can see this spot will need a lot more work to blend in properly
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/sidedent3.jpg)
The top dent has smoothed out nicely. There are small imperfections now that will be filled in with glazing putty and sanded with a finer grit sandpaper.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/glz1.jpg)
The glazing putty. It is meant for filling pinholes/shallow imperfections. Larger areas like the 1/8" chip in the above picture should be addressed with more body filler.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/glz2.jpg)
A little dab will do ya
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/glz3.jpg)
Then smooth it out with one of the plastic spreader tools. Once dry it will be sanded with fine sanding paper.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/glz4.jpg)
Decided to get the skim coat of bondo on the side dent so it can dry overnight. There were also some small imperfection that I put some glazing putty on (darker red).
-Jessie
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/sidedent4.jpg)
A little more progress made today. The dent on the top is now finished and the one on the side is coming down the home stretch. Once the side one is finished it will be time for a coat of high build primer and some wet sanding.
-Jessie
Top dent after sanding the glazing putty.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/hs1.jpg)
A little primer and this dent is done!
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/topfin2.jpg)
Sanded down the side dent
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/sdd1.jpg)
Once primed you can see it still needs more attention
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/sdd2.jpg)
There are small imperfections and sanding lines from the coarse sand paper I used to shape the Bondo. More glazing putty to the rescue... One more sanding and this spot should be done too.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/sdd3.jpg)
Sorry if this post is getting long and boring but painting a bike is....well..... long and boring :laugh: I know most people just want to see a before and after pic but hopefully seeing the whole process is helpful to someone.
The tank is now finished to the point that I can start on the fenders. This bike has a metal front fender and a plastic rear fender. The rear fender had some minor blemishes and the front fender has some minor rust issues. Pics below...
-Jessie
Ebay fenders off an '86 model. The '83 model we are redoing had a chrome front fender that was pretty beat up, later models had body color fenders.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/ff1.jpg)
Cleaned them up so I could see what I was dealing with. The front fender had some rust so I decided to strip it to bare metal like the gas tank first.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/ff2.jpg)
Dab the stripper on liberally with a paint brush, let it do it's thing for a little bit, then scrape it off. Repeat as necessary.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/ff4.jpg)
With the paint removed you can see the rust
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/ff5.jpg)
Wash the piece thoroughly with soap and water to remove all the residual stripper. Be careful not to get it on your skin. You will know if it's there by the painful burning sensation...
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/ff6.jpg)
Once clean, wipe down with rubbing alcohol to help evaporate he water
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/ff7.jpg)
just like the gas tank I sanded off the lose rust and scuffed the entire piece. Then primed with a rust preventative primer.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/ff8.jpg)
Topped with sandable primer and waiting to be wet sanded
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/ff9.jpg)
Most of the rear is not visible when installed. There were a few areas that needed attention especially one on the rear lip.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/rf1.jpg)
The factory paint was scuffed up with 400 grit sand paper and glazing putty applied to the problem spots. A good rule to remember: Paint doesn't stick to shiney. Be sure to scuff up all the nooks and crannies. Due to the cold weather the putty will need to dry overnight before sanding. Once sanded it will be time for a coat of the high build sandable primer
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/rf3.jpg)
Keep it up! I'm going to be attempting some restoration work this winter and this thread has already been amazingly helpful for me. Awesome work :thumb:
Thanks NF11624, glad this is of helpful to someone.
Hit a few road blocks today on the rear fender. I've had to move my operations outside which is even more "less than ideal" than my normal operation. I know that all paint smells but the rattle can sandable primer I'm using right now smells really bad. I was painting in the garage but the fumes were spreading into the house. I'm working under a porch now. The next hurdle was my fault. I sanded the glazing putty down too far on the rear lip damage and had to redo it. Instead of letting the putty cure overnight like I have been I sanded and painted it after only about 2 hours. The putty wasn't fully cured and the primer did not adhere properly. That will take a little sanding to correct. The final obstacle was running out of primer before I was done. Normally not a big deal but I went to 2 auto parts stores and could not find the same brand in the black color. I found the same brand in gray and a different brand in black (Rustoleum Sandable). I was curious if the Rustoleum would have less of an odor but decided it would be a better bet to stick with the same brand. I don't like mixing brands because not all formulas are compatible. I also don't like mixing primer colors because they have some affect on how the color coat looks. This is the lesser of 2 evils. The next step will be wet sanding everything smooth. Later
-Jessie
Glazing putty sanded and the manufacturer sticker removed and scuffed
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/rear1.jpg)
My new outdoor painting set up. I never knew what a pack rat redneck I really was until I started looking at the background in these pictures. Out of frame is an aftermarket tC exhaust I've been trying to sell if anyone needs one... :D
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/rear2.jpg)
Partially coated with high build primer. This is when I ran out of paint...
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/rear3.jpg)
Finished coating with the gray primer
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/rear4.jpg)
Here is a close up of the problem area. Make sure you let the putty dry thoroughly before sanding and painting.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/rear5.jpg)
This is the paint that has the terrible odor. If I was doing this project again I'd try a different brand and see if it smells any better.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/rear6.jpg)
Great thread. Thanks for sharing your project and posting all of the pictures up! This is exactly the information I need after patching up body work with a fiberglass repair kit -- which currently looks worse than the dog's breakfast. I hope that a bit of diligent sanding and bondo work will make it look half as nice as what you've done.
Thanks sys49152, I hope your project turns out well! Take today's lesson to heart: HASTE MAKES WASTE I was trying to get the parts ready for color coats tomorrow and made 2 big mistakes: I rushed things and I cut corners which came back to bite me.
All the parts are primed now and ready to wet sand. If your parts are in good shape you can use 600 grit. I have some rougher parts on the tank that I will hit with 400 grit first. The wet sand process: Wet sand, dry with rubbing alcohol, look for spots that sanded through, touch up with primer, repeat as necessary until you get a uniform smooth finish.
My mistakes: There were some sanding lines on the tank that should have been addressed with glazing putty. Instead I took a half-assed approach and tried to put an extra heavy coat of primer. Odds are you would have still been able to see the lines after sanding but due to mistake number 2 we shall never know. I didn't give the primer enough time to dry before I tried to sand it and made a mess of the top of the tank.... Learn from my mistakes!!!
-Jessie
Basic wet sanding supplies: Sandpaper, sanding block and lots of water. In my usual "less than ideal" circumstances I am working on an upside down service cart in the front yard :D
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/wet01.jpg)
Sanding on flat surfaces should be done with the sanding block. On curved pieces like the front fender I sand with my hands. Fold the paper over a few times to stiffen it, then hold it lightly across your fingers. Sand from side to side with light pressure to minimize finger marks in the primer. BE CAREFUL where you set the paper down, grit/dirt on the sandpaper will cause scratches.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/wet03.jpg)
The front fender has a pretty good finish so it will only need to be sanded with 600 grit. Pour water over the piece and run your fingers over it to feel areas that need to be sanded more
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/wet02.jpg)
I sanded through in a few places which needed to be re-primed and sanded again
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/wet09.jpg)
The rear fender has a lot of contours to sand
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/wet04.jpg)
I sanded through in a few spots
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/wet07.jpg)
A little primer and some more sanding will fix that! I continued using the gray primer on this piece. That may cause a slight variation in the tint of the color coat compared to the other parts but it shouldn't be highly noticeable
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/wet08.jpg)
The tank still looked good at this point...
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/wet06.jpg)
After wet sanding with 400 grit
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/wet10.jpg)
As I applied more primer I noticed some sanding lines in the top (red circle). Instead of taking the proper route and addressing them with glazing putty in my haste I tried to fill them in with primer which caused the run circled in yellow
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/wet11.jpg)
I compounded the problem by not giving the heavy coat of paint enough time to dry before wet sanding resulting in this mess
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/wet13.jpg)
After a round of cursing I let the paint finish drying and scuffed it up with 320 grit dry paper
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/wet14.jpg)
Then applied a very liberal coat of glazing putty. Learning from my previous mistake I will let the putty dry over night before continuing. I also took this as an opportunity to address some small imperfections on the tank I normally would have ignored
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/wet16.jpg)
The good news is the fenders came out good and are ready for color coats
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/wet15.jpg)
Excellent thread, very detailed with lots of pictures :thumb:
[threadjack] Anyone interested in this may also like my low-budget paint write-up http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=50319.0 [/threadjack]
Thanks redhen, I'm hoping this is informative to some. The project was kicked into overdrive this weekend but no corners were cut. When I screwed up last week I was rushing things because the weather won't be on my side much longer. It has been unusually mild in Baltimore for November (highs in the mid-50's oF). I had intended on spraying the color coats Saturday but instead spent the day correcting the mess I made of the tank on Friday. Luckily the weather held through Sunday so I was able to get the color coats on. There are different types of automotive paints on the market and I'm sure you can find a lot more information about them online. The 4 basic types I know are lacquers, enamels, single stage urethanes and base coat/clear coats. Lacquer is what a model T Ford was painted with. It is outdated technology just like the model T. I have sprayed acrylic enamels before and gotten decent results. It is a single stage paint that covers quickly and dries fast which is good when you are spraying in "less than ideal" conditions. Acrylic enamels are still used on industrial equipment. It can be buffed to a decent shine but does not have the depth of a urethane base coat/clear coat. Most rattle can paints are enamels. The next step up is a single stage urethane paint. I have never used this type so I can not give any opinions on it. The industry standard now is a urethane base coat/clear coat. That is what we are using on this project. The pics below are of spraying the base coat part of the system. Normally the clear coat would be applied once the last base color coat had finished flashing (~drying). This bike we are doing a 2 tone design on so only the base color was applied. A second color and the clear coat will be applied later. Plenty of pics below!
-Jessie
After the mess I made of the tank on Friday I had applied a liberal coat of glazing putty. I hand sanded that for a good hour straight and the tank still looked bad
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/mess1.jpg)
I decided to sand the messed up area back down to bare metal and build it back up again. To speed the process I headed to my buddy's workshop and broke out the air sander
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/mess2.jpg)
Unfortunately my budd's air compressor is not as powerful as the one I used at my last job. The sander would bog down easily and the compressor was struggling to keep up.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/mess2b.jpg)
Orbital sanding supplies are fairly expensive. This bulk roll of sanding pads cost close to $200 (Note: This roll is about half used up)
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/mess3.jpg)
Even with only partial power the air sander made quick work of the glazing putty and paint
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/mess4.jpg)
A little primer to stop the rust and see what I was working with. The spot will be feathered back in to match the rest of the tank with progressively finer sand paper and lots of high build primer
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/mess5.jpg)
The tank looking pretty good again
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/prep01.jpg)
I took this opportunity to address some small blemishes with the glazing putty
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/prep02.jpg)
I let the putty dry overnight and got up early Sunday to finish the rest of the prep work. First I smoothed out the putty spots and then went over the whole tank with 320 grit dry sand paper
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/prep03.jpg)
With everything smoothed out it was time for some wet sanding with progressively finer wet sandpaper. The goal here is to remove all the sanding lines so the color coats have a nice smooth base to sit on. This prep work will determine how good your finished paint job will look so take your time and be careful!!
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/prep04.jpg)
The tank was still a bit rough so I started with 320 grit wet sandpaper. If a piece is already in good shape you can go right to the 600 grit.
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/prep05.jpg)
Another coat of primer
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/prep06.jpg)
Sanded with 400 grit wet sandpaper
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/prep07.jpg)
A final coat of primer and then it is time for a final wet sand with 600 grit
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/prep08.jpg)
More pics to come...
Just be careful not to drop it... :D
Pavi- I like to call those "padongs". That's the noise the tank makes when you accidentally bang it on something :laugh:
Sunday afternoon and I'm back at my buddy's shop to apply the color coats. Normally it takes 3 base coats and 2 clear coats but this time we did 4 base coats. We used the same Barett Jackson paint from Sherwin Williams that was used on Kay's GS ( http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=50627.0 ). This color is called Snow White. Take as many safety precautions as you can when spraying urethane paints, it has some nasty chemicals in it. Ideally it would be sprayed in a down draft paint booth with a fresh air respirator. We were using cartridge respirators with an open garage door...
-Jessie
Base coat paint and stabilizer
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint01.jpg)
Clear coat and fast hardener (not applied in the pics below)
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint02.jpg)
The spray gun we use. The base coat is applied with the 1.3mm tip
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint03.jpg)
Spray gun basics...
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint04.jpg)
Spray guns are awkward to set down, plan ahead with a dedicated spot
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint05.jpg)
Mix the paint thoroughly in the can. This is especially true if you are spraying a metallic or a pearl, the particles have to be dispensed equally or the paint job will appear blotchy
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint06.jpg)
The base coat has to be mixed in a 2 part base to one part stabilizer ratio. About 14 ounces of paint was necessary to cover the tank and 2 fenders. First the base color was filled to the first #4, then the stabilizer was added to reach the other #4
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint07.jpg)
Once stirred thoroughly the paint was poured through a strainer to remove any lumps that could clog the gun
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint08.jpg)
Now the hard part, dialing in the gun. This is just trial and error. It is worth sacrificing some paint to get this step just right. Piglet is more experienced than I am in this department so I turn the gun over to him. We use an old street sign as a test piece, you can still see some "Spicy Merlot Pearl" on the sign from when we sprayed Kay's GS
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint09.jpg)
All the parts have been wet sanded with 600 grit paper. The parts are hung and wiped down with rubbing alcohol. Just prior to painting they will be wiped down with a tack rag which is a sticky cloth that removes dust and leaves no lint
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint10.jpg)
Kay has the tack rag in her hand in this photo. Pig starts the paint job by hitting all the body lines and corners with a wet coat (relatively heavy coat)
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint11.jpg)
Then he hits the rest of the piece for the first color coat. Paint lines are started off the edge of the piece, moved smoothly across the piece at about 6" distance. The gun's trigger is not released until you are off the other side of the piece. Before the paint starts spraying, the trigger is pulled in about 1/3 of it's travel which starts the air flowing but does not release paint. That clears any paint that was left in the nozzle which could create splatter marks if it got on the piece
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint12.jpg)
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint13.jpg)
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint14.jpg)
The paint has to "flash" between coats, with this paint at this temperature flashing took about 15 minutes. Notice the paint particles in the air, that is why you need some sort of respirator. The parts are wiped down with the tack rag before each coat is applied to minimize dust/contaminants
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint15.jpg)
2nd coat...
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint16.jpg)
3rd coat...
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint17.jpg)
4th and final coat
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint18.jpg)
I wish I would have drilled a hole in the front lip to hang this piece, there were some spots on the edge where the wire hanger rubbed the paint. Between the 2nd and 3rd coats I changed the hanging point to the opposite side to maximize coverage
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/paint19.jpg)
If this was an acrylic enamel or single stage urethane paint job this would be the end of the painting process (with the option of buffing out after fully curing). Normally the clear coat would be applied now in a one color base/clear paint job. The parts were left hanging to dry for a day before handling. Paint can take up to a week or 2 to fully cure. Once thoroughly dry, Kay will be getting creative with some fine line tape and a second color will be applied.
More more more, this is great!!! Nothing like reading about someone else's issues. But hey, that is how we all learn. I never knew about the glazing paste until I saw this thread. Thanks for all the good info.
Thanks OCD! Making mistakes is always a good way to learn, it's even better when it is someone else that makes the mistake before you do :laugh:
The parts are now dry enough to handle. The base coat came out really nice. My bondo work on the tank dent is decent but not perfect. It is not really visible but if you run your hand across that part of the tank you can feel a flat spot in the curve. There is also a small spot that I missed with the glazing putty. In all honesty I could have spent another day fixing really small imperfections but over all I am very happy with the results so far. Now the project will be put into Kay's hands for the stencil work.
Here's a breakdown of the cost of supplies for a typical base coat/clear coat paint job. All figures are rounded off
Bondo quart $10
Bondo spreaders $3
Glazing putty $5
Sandpaper (320 grit dry, 320 grit wet, 400 grit wet, 600 grit wet) 4 x $7 each = $21
Tack rags $6
Rattle can primer 4 12 oz. cans x $6 each = $24
Base Coat Paint Pint (enough for a non-full fairing bike like a naked GS) $40
Base Coat Stabilizer $15
Clear coat quart (not available in pints, enough for 2 bikes+) $40
Clear coat hardener $10
Other Misc. Supplies (rubbing alcohol, mixing cup, strainer, last chance filter...) $10
Total spent $184
Of course this doesn't account for the price of tools. There are various different guns on the market at all different price levels. I used to use a $60 Harbor Freight special gun with acrylic enamel paint and got decent results. I'm actually curious to see what kind of results I could get with that old gun and this paint but not curious enough to spend the $$$ to find out ;) I have been talking with tt_four about spray guns by PM, I'll see if he still has the message I sent about different types of guns. If so, I'll post it on this thread if he doesn't mind. One thing I didn't point out was that "last chance" filter on the spray gun in the pics changes color as the desiccant wheres out. Here's some pics of the parts as they sit now. Later
-Jessie
Edit: A side note on the primer. I don't know whether the spray tips on the rattle cans are really inefficient or if the paint itself does not cover as well but I used a lot more ounces of rattle can primer than I would have with a quart can of 2K high build primer sprayed through the HVLP gun for about the same price (~$30)
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/white2.jpg)
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/white3.jpg)
(http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww360/jessiedoran/white1.jpg)
Looking at redhens' post ( http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=50319.0 ) it looks like he used the single stage urethane paint so he would be a good one to give an opinion on its ease to apply and overall durability. Durability and chemical resistance is a big concern with paint. I did up an old motorcycle with rattle can paint and a a rattle can clear coat once. The end result was fair but the first time I dripped gas on it the clear coat was ruined and the tank looked awful.
-Jessie
Here's a little diatribe on Harbor Freight stores and different types of paint guns I had with tt_four by PM. Thankfully he hadn't deleted it yet because I didn't feel like retyping it ;)
-Jessie
Never, I repeat NEVER, go to a Harbor Freight store!! You will go in for a screwdriver and walk out with a MIG welder because "it was on sale!"
In all seriousness, I love those stores. They are a separate operation from the mail order store and do not carry all the same items. You do have to have good restraint though or you will walk out with all kinds of things you didn't plan on buying. That gun link you sent (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91009) looks to be a case of "you get what you pay for." It is a gravity fed gun which in a lot of areas is not legal to use anymore. It is a variation on the old pressure fed guns with a can on the bottom. Instead of having the can on the bottom it uses a gravity fed cup on the top. Those guns have a low transfer efficiency rate meaning most of the paint ends up in the air, not on the piece you are painting. I believe the technical term is "bounce back." It shoots out the paint with a lot of force and most of it bounces off the area being painted. It is something like 30-40% of the paint actualy adheres. Due to environmental concerns these guns are banned in a lot of areas.
The modern standard in paint guns is called "HVLP" which stands for high volume, low pressure. It transfers a lot of paint with a low pressure stream and have superior atomization compared to the old style guns. These guns have a transfer efficiency rate of 70% or higher. Besides the environmental advantages they also save you money on paint due to the higher efficiency in coverage. They are easier on your air compressor too because it uses a lot less air. Any gun you trade up to will be of the HVLP variety so I think it would be better to learn on one.
The gun I have is an older version of this one: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66222
The regulator that came on it was pretty cheap and broke but the gun itself worked ok. If it is not too far out of your way you may want to go to the store and see what they actually carry. Also sign up for their sale flyers. If it's not on sale this week it will be next week...
Also a tip regarding Harbor Freight purchases, Tons of magazines have 20% off any 1 item coupons in the back of them.
I find them in popular science, various flying magazines, car and driver, etc..
I always end up with a pile of these and the cashiers will let you ring up each item separately so you can use as many 20% off coupons as you want.
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on November 24, 2009, 10:57:26 AM
Looking at redhens' post ( http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=50319.0 ) it looks like he used the single stage urethane paint so he would be a good one to give an opinion on its ease to apply and overall durability. Durability and chemical resistance is a big concern with paint.
Yes, it was a single-stage acrylic urethane. Ease of application? Very easy. Only needed one coat (given, it was rather difficult to get a good thick, wet coat without causing runs) and I didn't even use a clear coat. It looked as good the day I sold it as the day I painted it. As far as I could tell, it was very resistant to drips of gas (unlike rattle-can) and was very durable overall. And from a budget standpoint, it definitely gets my recommendation.
I was looking at some tack rags at Sherwin Williams, and noticed they're "bleached". Will this affect anything?
Quote from: cyberdork on November 29, 2009, 08:05:47 PM
I was looking at some tack rags at Sherwin Williams, and noticed they're "bleached". Will this affect anything?
I don't know what "bleached" means so I can't say. Did you ask an employee?
I use these Crystal brand tack cloths that TCP Global carries: http://www.tcpglobal.com/autobodydepot/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=CRY+PREM-A Let me know if you plan on ordering anything from that company. I want to buy a chip chart from them but I don't want to pay $10 shipping on a $3 chart ;)
-Jessie
hey just wondering if you got the 2nd base color and clear on yet? looks great so far and i learned alot form reading through your post. thanks for the great writeup :thumb: it'll definitely help with my winter project
He's waiting on me to tape out the design on the tank. I'm finishing up some other projects so I'll start on that soon. I can't imagine he'd want to paint now, though- 20 degrees F is hardly ideal.
oh ok i got ya