So I figure I could use a new bike to wrench on. :)
Enter the GS500F. . .
I find a local guy (kid) selling a year old GS with 1200 miles on her for $2500. I go look at the bike and its clean. Almost new. A minor ding in the right side ignition cover but other than that the damn thing is sweet. Well yeah, it had been dropped but... Upon closer inspection my Son says "but Dad, have you ever seen a GS500 that HASENT been dropped?" I can't argue with logic. Driveway drops are what GS500's are all about, so I say lets buy it!
I bring it home, roll it into the shop and strip it down to see what we spent our 2500 bucks on.
<heh-heh> Sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose...
Yeah, a simple driveway drop. No harm done. A tiny scratch on the right cover.
But alas, the more you look, the more you find. . .
When bikes are dropped, batteries leak. They leak acid. Acid digests metal.
Lets take a look at what was waiting for me under all those fancy plastic fairings...
(http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/bike1_420x297.jpg)
So far, so good.
(http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/acidPipe_420x280.jpg)
Oh no! Acid dripped onto the pipe. Its ruined!
(http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/spray2_420x630.jpg)
Acid sprayed into everything down under!
(http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/R0010479_420x280.JPG)
Even way down here! Acid spray is on E~V~E~R~Y~T~H~I~N~G~!
So, I got about $500 in replacement parts on order to clean the damn thing up. So much for the deal of the century. <sigh> :icon_sad:
My question is this: Who is stupid-er, (more stupid?)
The kid that dropped the bike and never washed it off after the drop "OR" the old man that bought the bike thinking he got a new bike for only $2500.?
And while I'm venting. . .
Why didn't you GS500 gurus tell me I would have to drill out 11 out of the 14 Philips head screws on the dang carburetor? <geez> :confused:
No big deal, I got it apart, re-jetted, and rebuilt with SS hex-key head screws, but what a fight!
I love to wrench so this is kinda' fun after all.
I'll post some more photos as soon as the "Acid Bath Scoot" is fully restored and reassembled.
Thanks Srinath, GStwin Contributors, and you guys from the "Noob Seeks Approval" thread.
Regards,
-Electrojake-
The carb screws are JIS, not Philips. If you read things about the carbs here enough, you'd know that, and you'd also know that an impact driver (along with the JIS bit) is your friend getting them out (and you never put them back in.) That's "Japanese Industrial Standard", I believe.
If you actually replaced all the parts that got acid on them, I suspect you are just a wee bit on the paranoid side of rational. None look the least bit like they were more than cosmetically impacted. Clean, neutralize (baking soda paste, rinse clean), paint if need be, done.
Dude. You're wasting your money buying new parts. Everything in the photos look fine. Just check the chain. I've seen acid drip on a chain and develop cracks. The chain then broke lose when the bike was moving. Ask me how I know. :icon_rolleyes:
Why should a bike with 1K miles on it look like a flock of birds defacated on it?
It's a cosmetic thing. Besides, parts are cheap. (except of course for carburator parts) :embarrassed:
BTW, any suggestions on what type of black paint I should use to touch-up the rust spots on the frame? Will gloss black Rust-Olium be O.K.?
As for the JIS screwdrivers. . .
I can set them right next to my Reed and Prince set. <grinning>
But seriously now, You're not alone, my Son inspected my carburetor "tooling" job after he got home from work and shook his head in disbelief.
I do have impact drivers & bits but felt the impacts would do bad things to the carb, so out came the drill. Just enough to take the heads off. Then removed the bowls and unscrewed the shanks with fingers.
Now that my junk screws have been replaced with HEX, it will never be a problem again. Plus now I'm a little wiser on that JIS issue Thank You! :thumb:
And I will make it a point to check the chain a link at a time.
If anything looks odd, I'll post photos and ask questions.
Thanks for the input,
-Ej-
i find that semigloss worked best for me when i was covering small rust areas. Also I wouldn't repair everything that has acid drippage on it. I would simply neutralize, clean and ride. If you make it look pretty again right off the then you'll have to fix the next thing that goes or gets scratched, accidents happen.
There are a lot of bushings down under there, swing-arm, suspension, etc...
I had visions of acid getting into them and causing problems that weren't obvious to the naked eye. The photos don't tell the true story of the damage that happened to this bike. The proper thing to do would be to disassemble, inspect, and clean all of it but I'm not going there. That would require a full tear-down and I have too many other projects in the que.
My answer was to pressure wash with soap (a base), then rinse extensively, blow it out with air & wipe dry. I disassembled the right rear-set, heal guard, & brake cylinder assembly and found the acid had worked it's way into the threads of the bolts, and really enjoyed munching on the brake cylinder.
(http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/AcidScrew2_420x280.jpg)
This is an example of what I'm finding AFTER the fuzzy white acid crap was washed off.
Under every component there is a surprise. My choices are:
1.)Paint & sell.
or
2.)Tear down & repair as required.
The interesting part of this is;
The polite young fellow I bought the bike from was driving around this way. When I first inspected the bike I asked him what the staining was from and he simply replied, "yeah, I saw that on there a long time ago but don't know what it is". :dunno_black:
As for the paint issue; 90% of the touch-up work is on the inside of the frame around the rear shock assembly.
I guess I'll go with the semi-gloss black Rust-Olium then.
And as you can probably tell, I'm no Master Mechanic :icon_rolleyes:, so anyone putting their 2 cents in is certainly appreciated.
Thanks for the input.
-Ej-
Man dont go overboard. That needs to be fixed wiht a garden hose.
Sulphuric acid isn't fatal to pretty much anything. Not even people, just dont drink it. Just dry brush off as much as you can. Then go for it with a garden hose - oh yea wait till its above freezing or use warm water in the war garage.
I've seen far worse ... I actually ride much much worse, everyday. That is just pretty and has white powder ruining the nice black look ... just dont drive by a cop, he'd mistake that white powder for some thing else.
Just dry brush, then hot water spray and then wd40 everything. Most metal wil lstand a several hour soak in battery acid. Steel and chrome is what you have, and no worries. Those guys will stand several days in muriatic acid, sulphuric acid is a joke.
Swingarm bearings etc are all sealed off from the outside world and have nice water proof grease on them. You cant eat those wiht just battery acid.
I'd just wash and wd40 and ride. Clean the cain wiht chain cleaner then chain lube on it. Nothing else can be affected by battery acid. Brakes ... sealed off good from the world. BTW most of the muck on the bolts you have in the pic are prolly form the factory. I'd not worry at all.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on December 09, 2009, 09:31:28 AM
Man dont go overboard. That needs to be fixed with a garden hose.
That is just pretty and has white powder ruining the nice black look
... just don't drive by a cop, he'd mistake that white powder for some thing else.
I'd just wash and wd40 and ride.
I'd not worry at all.
Cool.
Buddha.
Yes indeed!
I was toying with the idea of scraping off a bit of the white powder and blowing a line. :tongue2:
Talk about a rush, Whooo Baby!
And yes, the WD-40 seemd to stop this stuff cold.
I did a through spray & wipe down with the WD.
All is looking better already!
The funny thing is if you replace all these parts because they look ugly. Well.....you better not ride your bike.
Your rims will get brake dust on them. The exhaust will discolor. Don't EVER hit a puddle or ride in the rain. That will ruin the bike. Might as well sell it at that point.
If a bird poops on it, will most likely need a new paint job.
P.S. if you buy all new parts I'll take your old ones for 25% of their value. They're basically ruined so 25% is better than throwing them away. O0
I think you're misdiagnosing alot of things. I doubt battery acid got halfway down the threads of a screw and caused that rust. If it did why is it only in the middle.
What's more likely is that this bike was bought and left outside the entire time and rained on profusely. Water worked down into all the cracks and stayed there for a long time causing rust.
Have you ever dropped a bike before? They don't explode acid over the entire insides of the bike. They fall. We pick them up and continue riding. We don't ride acid bombs. Plus there is usually a tube running from the battery to the ground that drains all the acid to ground. I suppose that wasn't present when he dropped the bike though.
Quote from: tussey on December 09, 2009, 10:44:20 AM
I think you're misdiagnosing alot of things.
What's more likely is that this bike was bought and left outside the entire time and rained on profusely.
Damage is consistent with a right side drop.
For arguments sake I'm going to pull the LEFT side rear-set apart and look for similar rust on the threads, etc...
If left side shows similar rust,
your right! Its just rain & time at work.
If left side is clean, then I can only assume that the bike fell over in his garage and sat that way for a few days before he realized it. Upon seeing it down on its side, he simply picked it up and never looked any closer.
Notes:
1.) Drain hose was there but not connected to the battery.
2.)The battery water level was at the "Full" line when I examined it. <
go figure>
So perhaps that polite young fellow I bought the bike from knew more than he led me to believe. Yes? >:(
Either way, for $2500 I'm still feeling O.K. about this transaction. The VIN is clean and I know the local dealer from which the bike was purchased from "new" in 2008.
-Ej-
P.S. Feel free to chime-in and help me convince myself that I didn't get hosed on this deal! :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: Electrojake on December 08, 2009, 08:32:36 PM
So, I got about $500 in replacement parts on order to clean the damn thing up. So much for the deal of the century. <sigh> :icon_sad:
Ok, I'll help you feel better. Send me all the old parts you are replacing. I might even pay for shipping. You really don't want them laying around stinking up your garage.
Quote from: Paulcet on December 09, 2009, 11:32:41 AM
Quote from: Electrojake on December 08, 2009, 08:32:36 PM
So, I got about $500 in replacement parts on order to clean the damn thing up. So much for the deal of the century. <sigh> :icon_sad:
Ok, I'll help you feel better. Send me all the old parts you are replacing. I might even pay for shipping. You really don't want them laying around stinking up your garage.
Where were you when I re-did my Yamaha or for that matter my Jeep TJ!?!Now THAT was a junk pile of factory new parts a man could be proud of!
-Ej-
Back to Rain vs. Acid. . .
As I recall, there were no signs of dried water droplets anywhere when I first took things apart.
A look at the top of the starter motor cover can tell a story.
It should be a bit dusty but thats all. Preferably no wipe marks, dried water droplets, greasy finger prints, (and not spotlessly clean either). All looked good on this bike.
And I realize that odometer readings can be "adjusted" too.
For goodness sake, My 13 year old daughter can but 1200 miles on a TW200 in a weekend, so I do find it hard to believe there are so many 2, 3 and even 4 year old GS500 for sale on CraigsList that only have 1 or 2 K on them.
<go figure>
As for the condition of the bolts on the LEFT side of the bike. . .
(http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/screwClean_250x280.jpg)
As I had hoped for, they are spotless!
Another thing I have noticed; wherever I find rust (on the right side) I also find thoes white furry deposits, indicitive of an acid reaction. I'm tellin' ya, that crap got into everything!
As always,
Thanks for the input!
-Ej-
This is hard for me to imagine. My gs was laid over 4 times during the time I owned it and not once did I ever have a problem with battery acid. I don't even recall having a hose attached to it for drain-off.
In one crash in 2000 my 89 dumped acid into the right side cover. But in 5 prior crashes it was perfectly dry. That battert lastem me 95 to 00 till the acid incident. Then I believed one clown who said "you should only ever put water in a used battery, the plates are now saturated with acid and only water should go in that battery". Besides I never could find battery acid in autoparts stores and hence I had to get a new battery, whihc I did, but going sealed one sideways.
Anyway, just clean off electrojake.
Cool.
Buddha.
This is insane! It's a f*****g motorcycle, not a shrine. You probably shouldn't buy anything used if your standards are this high.
For entertainment purposes I'll put together a parts list with pricing so I can total up what I spent to get the bike back to its "almost" new condition.
My original $500 estimate was indeed a little top-heavy.
I took the forum's advice; I decided not to bother with the shock or bushings. Too expensive and too much labor to beautify parts that no one sees anyway.
Hope to have it put back together and running within the next ten days, (waiting on parts right now).
Heh-heh, The real fun will begin if my carb re-jetting job turns sour.
Like most noobs, I'll be in too much of a hurry to get it to run good without taking the time to properly learn what it is I'm actually doing.
And I see that there are many, many, many re-jet posts here at Gstwin.com. So it seems I'm not alone on these carb re-jet questions.
Yeah, this is gonna' be fun.(http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/grin42.gif)
Pictures, pricing, & parts list to follow.
And Thanks for the activity on this thread. It keeps me motivated,
-Ej-
Quote from: ineedanap on December 09, 2009, 01:37:21 PM
This is insane! It's a f*****g motorcycle, not a shrine.
(http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/2403_worshipper.gif) :bowdown: All hail the noob's GS500.
No, but really now, like a kid with a new toy,
I dont want mine to be the boogered-up one...
I want mine to be the nifty clean one! :thumb:
I bought mine in a simular situation.. drop might have been worse because the fairings were removed and it was converted to a gs500e and completely repainted (its a 2007)
mine was worse i think, all the area around the battery and under it was basicly eaten away by acid and corroded and rusting. All i did was brush it off with a rag as good as i could then i sprayed some rustoleum on it. hopefully it lasts lol
I still think you got a nice deal, you saved more than a couple thousands, for a new enogh bike.
My second battery sprayed the lower part of the frame and linkage of suspension after a dropping, it ate the paint, also in Summer and Winter battery tended to lose water and discharge. Sealed battery is the way to go, more expensive tha OEM but you won't have to worry for another acid damage restoration again and the battery will keep the charge.
Gooddeal.
And its OK to want pristine. Its probably not ok to shoot for pristine once pristine is gone. unless you have fun restoring. Then its OK.
Agreed.
I have a sealed battery on the way but I had to down-size from 11 Amp hours to 10 in order to get the proper fit.
Click the link for a look at it:
www.dvoltbatteries.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/8da3cad374f029aa5149c32035d00113.jpg (http://www.dvoltbatteries.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/8da3cad374f029aa5149c32035d00113.jpg)
The sealed battery in my Yamaha is about 18 months old and I have no problems with it, driving lights, electric gloves, GPS, Brio horn, GMRS radio, etc...
And as for pristine. . .
Yes, I want the GS to be perfect at least once before I go out on the road.
I winter ride here in New Jersey and I know what the road-salt and calcium chloride are gonna' do to the bike.
And yes, I do use Marine SaltAway. It works wonders but only stops about 75% of the corrosion damage. And I cant hose her down when its 29 degrees out so sometimes she does get put-up wet as the saying goes.
-Ej-
Pristine is overrated, the most liberating thing to happen to me was wrecking the SV. Before then I washed it, waxed it, refrained from using a magnetic tank bag.... Now that it is scraped and dented I can use it like I should have been all along :D
-Jessie
Anal is as anal does. If you want pristine than make it pristine. Hell I have spent $2000 on mine to make it into something I could have just bought called a GSXR, lol.
Enjoy the rebuild, it is a hobby. Welcome to the forum as well.
Quote from: BaltimoreGS on December 09, 2009, 08:43:47 PM
Pristine is overrated, the most liberating thing to happen to me was wrecking the SV. Before then I washed it, waxed it, refrained from using a magnetic tank bag.... Now that it is scraped and dented I can use it like I should have been all along :D
-Jessie
He's lying to you. I have video proof he still does all those things. :angel:
Yes, its a hobby. Exactly!
Off topic but...
Yeah, the neighbors would agree that I'm anal, overprotective, and destructive, all in one well groomed package.
I guess some people just got to wrench. It can't be helped. Other people need to sit on the couch after work and get fat & stupid. Unfortunately, much like my neighbor, they can't be helped either.
1.)I pulled my new Jeep into my shop and installed a full suspension system, 4:11 gears, on-board air, remote controlled locking differential, BFG tires, swapped the chrome rims for black steel, front & rear Warm bumpers, steel gear racks, M8000 winch, plus engine work, body work, etc. . . Neighbors watched me work and thought I was completely nuts, only a fool would do that to a brand new vehicle!
2.)Had the sweetest Jeep in town for about a month, then planned a trip with the wife & kids into the Pine Barrens to see what it could do. We had a blast but needless to say the Jeep wasn't "new" any more. <heh-heh> Brought her home all mudded-out & tattered from the trip. Neighbors thought I was nuts, (a fool).
3.)As an even bigger spectacle, I ride ATGATT. Needless to say, when I'm suited up and roll down the driveway on the bike. . . Neighbors think I'm nuts, (a fool).
And I'm positive they consider me a fool because (I allow) my 2 children to ride. You guessed it; Neighbors think I'm nuts, (a fool).
Damn, I'm so far off topic I forgot what the heck I'm ranting about!?!
Well one thing I know for sure. . .
You GStwin forum members have the knowledge and experience I need to do this GS500 properly.
And if after I'm done making it pristine, I happen to lay the thing down on an exit ramp somewhere, I'll be looking for advice on how to Hooligan what's left.
You guys know cause ya already been there. . . and I need that knowledge!
Later,
-Ej-
P.S. I guess wrecking the "Baltimore SV" did indeed knock the pristine out of her, eh? <snicker> :cheers:
-Ej-
AGATT is the only way to ride.
Pine Barrens is my favourite episode of sopranos.
"You think this is cold? I wash my ***** with icewater."
I didn't know it was a real place.
Would love to take my jeep out there.
:)
The Pine Barrens, Tower City, and Paragon Adventure Park (RIP) are some of the best places on the northern east coast to explore by Jeep (or dirtbike in my case...)
-Jessie
just checked my acid corroded areas again and its reallly bad.. tons of corrosion built up again :(
im gona have to take the battery tray out or something.. the best way to clean this is just with water or what?
pic this is after i allready scraped it off once and sprayed with rustoleum.. it just corroded under the rustoleum again =(
its the battery box
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f240/andy13186/IMG_0021.jpg)
I think it would be best to get a new "sealed" battery before you bother to re-hab the old battery tray.
The dried acid will drop down and also blow back onto the rest of the bike.
I know all about it. :icon_neutral:
Thanks for posting the pic!
i did buy a new battery recently, couldnt find a sealed one though.. new one hasnt leaked and i dont think it will leak unless i crash bad or something
to clean that corrosion i made a solution of baking soda and water and sprayed it on, that foamed up and turned brown, then i sprayed that off with a hose
i think it worked good, hopefully it does not start to corrode again
spotblast the area and paint with rustoleum. I have an 06 with same problems. Instead of buying new then why not just take all the parts to a powdercoater to make them look new. i doubt it will cost over 50$ for everything.
An Acid Bath GS500 Update. . .
After a solid month of putzin' around with this almost perfectly bran new (yeah right) GS, its starting to look like a 2007 "F" bike again.
A few days ago I even got to hear the engine run. Very reassuring!
Carbs are jetted and back on, forks re-sprung and back on, electrical harness mods are done, acid damage fully repaired, cosmetics are done and I hung a new Jardine on her in place of the acid damaged stock pipe, touring wind screen, electronics bling, blah, blah, etc, etc...
So Just when I was starting to forget about the primary reason for tearing the bike apart, I unpacked the seat and as I went to put it on the bike I flipped it up-side-down and said "Hey, what's all this white powdery crap!?!"
Well of course! Its Acid.
It was along the right underside of the seat. The acid bath side, so of course the seat got the staples burnt out of it by acid. <sigh> :icon_neutral:
Anyway; Here is a shot of the right side of the bike (which had the most damage) all repaired & reassembled.
Pristine Thank You.
(http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/Acid-restore-1_400x306.jpg)
****
Here is what the staples in "your" seat look like. . .
(http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/seat-ok_250x187.jpg)
****
And here is what the staples in my Acid Bath GS look like. . .
Brown, rusted, ready to disintegrate soon as my fat butt gets comfy on the first ride.
(http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/seat-acid_250x128.jpg)
****
I'm starting to run short on patience. :technical:
-Ej-
:icon_rolleyes:
rusty seat staples? might as well trash the whole bike.
Acid shouldn't be getting that high up on the bike, is there still a drain hose attached to the battery? That hose is supposed to leak the acid down and away from all the stuff that it can eat.
Worried about acid? Try English weather, that eats through exhaust pipes even if you have a sealed battery.
Staples under the seat ... OK 2 options there.
Clean it with a tooth brush and wd40 ... anything harder and you'd blow a hole in the vinyl.
The option I like though and I am doing it to 1 seat as we speak ...
Buy stainless staples and a staple gun. Then remove 1 and staple that with the new staple. 1 at a time will prevent the cover form comming off and then you have to heat it and line it and do all the BS ... 1 at a time is great, in fact you may even hit the same spot and save punching more holes in it. All wal mart and prolly cost under 20 bucks. Then you have staples and a staple gun to show for it too.
BTW can the foam freeze, cos my seat was like a rock this morning. It thawed around the time I puleld into work.
Cool.
Buddha.
I don't think the foam freezes, but it does become less compliant. Mine was not as cushy this morning either. 27°F
The point here is; after all the hub-bub over acid damage on a bike with only 1200 miles on her, the very last thing I (didn't) look at was the seat. And of course, after all else was repaired, and I was all ready to gloat, the seat too was damaged due to that single driveway drop by the previous owner.
Crazyfish, the battery acid damage was from a drop.
Thanks for the input though.
Buddha, you seem to have a remedy for just about anything. All good info too. Thanks. I will have to re-staple or eventually it will indeed fall apart.
I'm hoping this seat issue is the last gasp of the acid damage.
Paulcet, riding in 27°F weather? That's Adventure-Tourer material! :thumb:
Off Topic but: How do you deal with the salt & calcium chloride damage issue when winter riding?
Just wondering.
Thanks!
-Ej-
Fall apart ... dunno didn't look too bad from that pic. Clean it and see ... I replaced em on one where the seat sat in dirt for a few months atleast.
The vinyl in that was OK ... so was the pan. But the staples are the weakest link ... I have stapler and SS staples so I didn't have to buy anything.
Cool.
Buddha.
Stainless Steel Staples?
Probably a tad more difficult to locate than brass tacks. <heh-heh> But I do like your pull em' and then replace them one at a time concept. That's what I'm going to attempt to do.
As for my seat staple crisis. . .
It's a matter of principal.
I have revived some old nasty machinery over the years, but that's not the point here. This bike is not a 70's vintage GS850 that I found in some old man's shed. On the contrary, it was new in the showroom a year ago and has only seen 1200 miles of road!
Rusted and patched is simply unacceptable.
The poor thing should have a proper childhood (so-to-speak). It was made "un-new" too soon in it's life. It is therefore my duty to make it "re-newed".
O.K. then, I feel better now. . .
Time for my meds. (http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2wc9e/22.gif)
-Ej-
Aaaah one more gstwinner goes insane ... man its been 2 this year already and its only the 6th of jan.
In my defense I found a honda seat that was a straight on fit on the XS I am fixing up and makes it look rad.
Anyway I went nuts 1985 so its not counted.
SS staples ... you could use brass, just something that wont get eaten by residual acid ... see foam and plastic are resistant ... just that steel isn't. SS or brass should work.
Cool.
Buddha.