http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,15988.0.html
(http://www.hyosungmotorsusa.com/img/product/popup/i_2010_GT250R.jpg)
It's fuel injected. Screw you, Kawasaki.
Its korean ... screw you whoever buys one.
Though for sure korean crap prolly far better than kawi ... however its a V twin. hate that junk, parallel ... or single ...
Cool.
Buddha.
It's South Korean, and, as far as I'm concerned, if you're willing to send your cash out of the United States it doesn't matter which one of our allies it goes to. The second a United States manufacturer rids me of my disdain over having to go to China for a reliable, interesting, and inexpensive supermotard or Korea for a reliable, interesting, and inexpensive entry level sportbike or hell Japan or Germany for something "cutting edge"...and so on...I'll be all over it.
I've seen them, but haven't ever really looked into it. They have a 650 as well. Some deadbeat is trying to sell some on ebay and listing them as gsxrs. Some kid emailed him and he posted the response "rumor is suzuki makes some parts for them", which clearly justifies incorrectly labeling the bike as a gsxr. I emailed him to tell him he was a scumbag and he wrote back saying "ok".
Either way, not to much a matter of where my money is going or isn't.... but if I'm buying something foreign, it's gonna be japanese just for the reliability. I loved that triumph, but what a hassle just for a 'unique' bike. I liked the idea of buying a Buell because they're american, aside from other reasons I'd like one, but I still feel like half of that money is going overseas anyway. Nothing is really american anymore.
They're fuel injected now. That's what you're missing. So, for $500 LESS you get:
Bigger brakes
Bigger wheels and better rubber
Better suspension
Better looks (though that does vary per person)
More power (though there's not a lot of difference between 22rwhp and 23rwhp)
Fuel injection
That last one, and looks, wins me.
I think they are all basicUS made bikes are totally international ... like even the us made bikes are teeming with Japanese and korean and taiwanese stuff.
You're basic difference is whether you're supporting a Multinational fat cat that started out in the US 100 years ago or one that started out in another country 100 years ago.
Corporate greed has overtaken most anything american in HD. As is the case with suzuki, kawi, yamaha or honda ... or syohung or Kia or hyundai.
So ... with truth in advertising ... "HD, Support american corporate greed, where we kill Buell in an effort to stay in the 18th century and make $ off our ignorant customers for chinese made trinkets overlaid with the Bar and sheild".
Nice corporate slogan eh ...
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: makenzie71 on December 28, 2009, 11:15:11 AM
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,15988.0.html
(http://www.hyosungmotorsusa.com/img/product/popup/i_2010_GT250R.jpg)
It's fuel injected. Screw you, Kawasaki.
that link sends me to some forum with wire figure art. :laugh:
haha whoops...
http://www.hyosungmotorsusa.com/new_product/introduction.asp?Cat=RoadSports&model=GT250R&year=2010
Srinath...we should get together and make a real American Sportbike...we'll get a dozen other enthusiasts together...wealthy ones who don't mind losing their income...and roll out a competitive bike. Sure, at first, it'll probably have to be a bit more expensive and some of the parts might have to be foreign, but lets start somewhere...
Quote from: makenzie71 on December 28, 2009, 01:28:50 PM
They're fuel injected now. That's what you're missing. So, for $500 LESS you get:
Bigger brakes
Bigger wheels and better rubber
Better suspension
Better looks (though that does vary per person)
More power (though there's not a lot of difference between 22rwhp and 23rwhp)
Fuel injection
That last one, and looks, wins me.
Still, I would wonder about the quality: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkqDzeCVkX0
if it isn't rusting to pieces when you un-crate the bike, have a smoke. yesssss, NOW it's rusting to pieces.
they're crap. :(
Read a review of the Hyosung 650 a while back. They said the bike was decent but sub-par compared to the Suzuki SV650. Most of the complaints were in the fit and finish department, they liked the way it rode. They also said that Hyosung has built parts for Suzuki since the late 70's but nothing on the Hyosung 650 is the same as a Suzuki SV650.
-Jessie
I used to love my old 2002 ninja 250. They hyosung looks better than the kawasaki, not to mention they're both worlds ahead of my old ninja as far as looks go. It was a ton of fun though, and I'd love to get my hands on one of the newer 250s and strip it down/gear it way down and make a fun little city bike out of it.
Rust? Steel bikes will rust. I've seen new GS500's and EX500's come out of the box with rust on poorly prepped welds. I also think that the guy in the vid talking about the bike falling apart after a year is a bit unreasonable...I know a few GT riders and none have any issues more serious than when they bought the bike...fit and finish is poorer than Suzuki but you're getting a very comparable bike at a VERY competitive price. The video is also of a Brit EX250...which is fuel injected and has about 3hp more than the US model.
I can't help but be biased here...I see shortcomings on the end of Hyosung but not enough to justify paying $500~1000 more for the EX (or the SV650).
It depends how you ride, I can see his point. When I had my 250 I probably put between 10-12k miles on it in the first year, and when I took it in to get inspected it cost me $1100 in parts and labor for it to pass. It was all standard stuff like a chain, chainring, brake pads, nothing out of the ordinary, and obviously now I would've just done the work myself and cut that down to a fraction of the price, but 250s aren't meant to be ridden hard, they're build to learn on, and riding one of those as hard as you can ride a gs, not to mention a 600 will definitely have it falling apart on you.
That point can be argued pretty well...I've had two (2007 and 2008) EX250's come to me in 2009 with nearly 20,000 miles on them with just typical service work needed (pads, fluids, chain, tires, valves)...the same thing any bike would need in that amount of time with that kind of mileage. That's any bike. The guy should have an understanding of this and, with that understanding, stating that the GT will "be falling apart" after a year is a bit extreme.
It's hard for me to see an area of issue with a year of hard riding...again, I haven't worked on the GT250, but I have worked on the GT650 and I know many GT650 riders. The suspension is the same (sans adjustabillity in the rear on the 250), fairings are the same, nearly everything is the same except the frame and engine. Unless the frame and engine are failing, there shouldn't be any particular issues to the 250 that the 650 doesn't suffer itself...and I've seen very few issues on the 650.
I will say, though, just to be perfectly clear, I have not worked on or played with a GT250. I'm not trying to say that they're a godsend or that they're unbeatable. The bike is a great interest to me because I love V-Twins, I love 250's, and I love the features given this 250cc V-Twin that other entry level bikes don't get.
It just irks me when people claim flaws in a bike they have never seen, ridden, or have any experience with. It's just like all the people who bash the Buell Blast, without ever having even seen one or having a vague understanding of what the bike was for, because ONE MAN made a website calling it a lemon.
The other downside to formal motorcycle reviews, is that people who make a living in motorcycles, ride every bike there is, and spend plenty of time on and off race tracks, rarely write a review that really means something to normal people. I read all the reviews I can, but still don't value any of it more than someone who's actually owned a bike and tells me what they say. After riding a 2009 gsxr 750, they're gonna tell you that the 2007 gsxr 750 is heavy and slow, even though 2 years earlier they told you it was light and fast. They're gonna pick on tiny details, and often enough skip completely over the fun factor of a bike just to skip right to the power/weight ratio and quarter mile times. Even if they pulled out the ex250 and the gt250 to compare to each other, all the time he's spent on other bikes is stored in the back of his head, and that gt250 is really being compared to every bike he's ridden in the past 10 years.
All that aside, even if it wasn't cheap, my Triumph was still fun and fast enough for me, and was put together decently well, but still had it's own stupid problems that made me hate the bike at times. Even if the Hyosungs are decent enough, there's just no comparing things to Japanese products when it comes to finish and durability. You might think it's basically got the same parts, but there's a million parks on that bike, and even if it has to start with the cheaper nuts and bolts they used to attach that same suspension, it'll start somewhere, and most likely have a shorter life span.
Saying they might not stand the test of time doesn't bother me so much...but it's not like they're new. Hell the GT's have been in the states for the better part of a decade without any negative publicity outside of the nay-sayers he say nay sans ever having even seen one.
I'm of the mind that you do get what you pay for...a lesser quality of fit and finish for an 80hp 650 that cost just a little more than a GS500F seems pretty fair.
Quote from: makenzie71 on December 28, 2009, 02:27:17 PM
haha whoops...
http://www.hyosungmotorsusa.com/new_product/introduction.asp?Cat=RoadSports&model=GT250R&year=2010
Srinath...we should get together and make a real American Sportbike...we'll get a dozen other enthusiasts together...wealthy ones who don't mind losing their income...and roll out a competitive bike. Sure, at first, it'll probably have to be a bit more expensive and some of the parts might have to be foreign, but lets start somewhere...
Its already being done - its called Buell ... Oops ... OK its called Fisher and Roehr and whatever crap the chopper builders build on TV.
I would say that if gas was to cost more a series of economy bikes, think GS but smaller and more efficient engines, like 300-400 FI, water cooled motors in sturdy GS sized Aluminum frames ...
Anyway, without gas costing 10 bones a gal, economy motorcycles will not sell.
Without a motorcycle that runs over 100 mph and 100 mpg and costs less than 5K in today's $ it will get killed by the likes of the prius.
Cool.
Buddha.
Roehr is kind of cool...but who can afford one?! Fischer is another way of saying "Hyosung" and Buell was another way of saying "Harley Davidson/Rotax/Porsche"...the first Buells were more along the lines of what I'm talking about about. Everything was American except some of the electronics.
I would love to see an ALL-AMERICAN. It doesn't have to be super-economic or anything. Just an attempt would please me. I think the only thing that really gets close is Johnny Pag...and that's sad.
That is great if you want to sell 1. If you want to sell 1 million, nope.
Cool.
Buddha.
In fact I would make it a platform for a lot of other things. I'd make a cruiser, a enduro and all of them on the same engine and mucc of the rest will be shared and swappable.
Better yet, you should be able to pin point and fix the problem at the component level. Like dont swap a black box, first of it will be several boxes, and you can diagnose each one and swap just that. No sense tossing a 500 buck air box when a 30C capacitor is dead. Now when better stuff gets developed, it will be made backwards compatible.
If better injectors were made for future models, they will fit the older ones. same with tars/wheels, brakes, everything. Also I'd consider that these things wil lend up in junkyards and the bike will be designed to be fixed up with that. Also these will end up on the used market. So I'd do a full on parts support where all dealers will know what from what will swap in with what modification. The thing also will have mostly generic bearings and internal components with an open design. No proprietary garbage like yamaha did on the XS650. They made a 30 X 78 bearing. WTF ... a 6306 bearing is a 30 X 72 ... garbage like that. Nope. made to be easy to work on and easy to fix. Keep it out of the junkyards and land fills for want of a 30c capacitor which in turn kills the black box which in turn is 500 bucks which in turn renders the bike useless.
Cool.
Buddha.
That's almost the entirety of my dream, SS. A simple frame spans the three genres I had in mind...cruiser, standard, and sport. I think something much lighter may be in store for an on/off road model, but there may be room to work there.
I even incorparated it into my engine. I know you don't like twins...but that'd be a variant. There'd be a 300cc single, a 600cc twin at either 60* or 120*, and a 900cc triple spanning 120*. The block and jugs are modular. The bigger engine just has one more jug. Block is the same across the board...single crank journal...only real complicated thing would be cam timing which would have to be three chains (heavy) or push rods. I think 100hp would be about the max on the triple, but the torque would be off the chart.
The whole idea with me was people want to start riding...they get a single. When they're ready to step up...a top end rebuild with a new jug added is more financially possible for the buyer than a new bike.
The cross compatibility thing is my biggest desire.
It's a dream.
Quote from: The Buddha on December 29, 2009, 10:06:19 AM
I would say that if gas was to cost more a series of economy bikes, think GS but smaller and more efficient engines, like 300-400 FI, water cooled motors in sturdy GS sized Aluminum frames ...
Hmm.... You guys should make me a gsxr400 like they sold from 1990+, those bikes looked awesome, and made way more power than the GS, plus they had aluminum frames. I love those bikes but they didn't sell them here.
You know Buddha is gonna gonna team up with you if you'll make a parallel twin. Those are the magic words.
Maybe same concept but parallel twin and V4 setups.
I can chime in on the GT250 here. While the one I owned was a 2005 and a non fuel injection model, i was very thrilled with the bike. The MCN review rubbed a lot of people wrong, on both sides of the fence. Right around the time of that review, Kawasaki renewed a large advertising contract with them, or so the rumor was...
The GT25 feels lighter and more stable than the GS500. Stability in corners is probably mostly from tires though. I flogged the ever living crap out of mine for about a year and half and 10k miles with no problems. Only failure due to poor manufacturing was a clutch cable.
Brakes needed a bit of an upgrade off the rip as the pads were made of carboard I think. A set of Carbon Lorraines and a stainless line upgrade and braking was significantly improved. The R model with dual fronts I would imagine is even better, my naked had a single disc front.
If I could have afforded to keep two bikes, I would have kept this one when I got my Bandit 1200...
Lousy overprocessed pic but...
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_JQ88DzLnrqw/SzpcrfaTOXI/AAAAAAAACus/w2MRHNS-PDo/s640/02-03-08_1716.jpg)
Dude I love twins, just hate V twins.
In fact I could totally get on board with a parallel twin with a 2-1 manifold and a single throttle body with 1-2 injectors sourced off some car.
Like rip off a mid 90's toyota at the junkyard and you have FI for life on your bike. Better yet, it will be published in the shop manual.
The goal is ... every one will only need to ever buy 1 bike. I dont even intend on selling parts as part of my income.
I'll make em, but not really plan to sell em in any quantity. Cross over list will be enormous.
The flip side is, every one will buy one. Cheap to run and easy to fix. Forget motorcycle specific anything ... it will all be copied from cars and what ever, heck run car tires too. Of course bike tires are what its fitted with @ the factory, but in my case, where teh turns I go through are all at traffic lights I could well run a brick for a tire.
I also have to think of decent weather gear and what not, but a heated jacket, pants and gloves should work just fine.
Cool.
Buddha.
I knew a guy with a boss hoss that go so tired of replacing rear tires he just started putting car tires on the back.
You know what'd be cool enough for me, is if more parts packages were available for a single bike. I know any bike can be adjusted to fit the rider, but picture something like a gs500 or sv650 that comes as a standard, but you can buy a whole setup with taller bars with backsweep, some forward controls, and a lowering kit, or you could get a full fairing, some clipons, and a stiffer suspension. I know that idea is already somewhat in play with the sv650 and sv650s, but I'm talking more drastic, and a bike made to swap easier.
The only downside I see to your 300/600/900 plan, is that the parts made to handle 300cc wouldn't hold up to 900cc power, and parts strong eonugh for a 900cc bike would make a massively heavy bike. If you're talking about cheap bikes with multi purpose, you're already gonna be making some decently heavy bikes with cheap components anyway. The idea of keeping a bike out of the junk yard by making them easy to fix is great, until someone rides their friends gsxr with 3 times the power and half the weight.
Quote from: tt_four on December 29, 2009, 02:50:30 PMYou know what'd be cool enough for me, is if more parts packages were available for a single bike. I know any bike can be adjusted to fit the rider, but picture something like a gs500 or sv650 that comes as a standard, but you can buy a whole setup with taller bars with backsweep, some forward controls, and a lowering kit, or you could get a full fairing, some clipons, and a stiffer suspension. I know that idea is already somewhat in play with the sv650 and sv650s, but I'm talking more drastic, and a bike made to swap easier.
This is along my idea. While I think adjustable clip-ons would be a need on the sportier model, you can get the same grip position with handlebars. You'll order the ones you don't want...and I'd like it to be a feature that, within a given period of time and given the parts are still in perfect condition, things like handlebars can be traded in at a minimal fee, if not for free, if you want a different style.
QuoteThe only downside I see to your 300/600/900 plan, is that the parts made to handle 300cc wouldn't hold up to 900cc power, and parts strong eonugh for a 900cc bike would make a massively heavy bike. If you're talking about cheap bikes with multi purpose, you're already gonna be making some decently heavy bikes with cheap components anyway. The idea of keeping a bike out of the junk yard by making them easy to fix is great, until someone rides their friends gsxr with 3 times the power and half the weight.
Well you're looking at a tops of about 100hp. We've pretty thoroughly proven exotic alloys and such aren't needed to handle 100hp. The bike will be heavy, that's a given, but it doesn't have to be piggish between the three models. The only real weight difference between them would be the jugs and rear wheel and there's no reason the 300 cc bike would be heavier than the GS500.
Sounds like the beginnings of Bimota... take an existing bike engine and some other bits and put them into a Bimota frame with other bits (Bimota Kit).
As far as it looks, Bimota still does the same thing. They just put Ducati engines into kits they make and sell the bike as a complete unit.
If you didn't see it, youtube Twist of The Throttle, Bimota. "Twist" also did stuff on Suzuki, Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, BMW, MV Augusta. Very interesting stuff.
Michael
I'd love to have the skill to build frames someday so I could pick an engine and just build up a bike. I would just make it to fix existing parts like a tank and swingarm for an existing bike, but other than that you could do pretty much whatever you want. I honestly don't know who I'm kidding though, all I'd do is buy an old cheap Japanese vtwin and build my own version of a buell.
meh imho those feel cheap, i rode one in my MSF course and they were ok but the fairings felt as if they were about to fall off