My bike will not start!! Heres whats up. Recently I rebuilt my carbs with rebuild kits consisting of all new seals and float plugs (?). At the same point I rejetted with dynojet stage 1. Mods are a cobra f1 pipe, and K&N in the stock airbox. I also got a new battery just yesterday because the old one was shot. Im seriously thinking the weather has something to do with this. Its about 20 degrees here in Pa with a windchill of 10. Bike is in an unheated garage. Heres what I have checked and troubleshooted.
-Fuel lines and vaccuum lines are correct, I am sure of that.
-Spark plugs are new and do get spark. Although the one does get a little wet with fuel after numerous attempts at starting, guessing Im just flooding it...
-Floats Do fill with fuel and float levels are for the most part correct, may be slightly off, But I dont think this would make it not start at all!
-Petcock always has run on PRI and thats how I have it now.
The bike does crank and I got a few backfires, but thats the best I got. Any ideas? Could it be the weather? I cant try to compression start it because my streets and alley way are pretty much still iced and snowed up. At least its winter, otherwise id be bashing my head off the wall. Thanks for any input!
what is a float plug ?
dynojet is crap. stock is better.
if one of your plugs is saturated quickly after attempting to start, i'd bet there is a mixture issue going on, ie, extremely rich on that side.
you are using the choke, right ?
yes, it will be difficult to start if it's lean and very cold out. will be even more difficult if it's rich as a fat politician on one side and lean as a worker bee on the other.
easy fixes:
put the stock needles, slides, and jets back in as they were. raise the needles with 1, 2, or 3 washers if you can find them at lowes, use the choke, and enjoy better running. really, the stock needles are better. sorry you wasted money on the DJ ones.
keep us posted :)
HA! I literally almost wrote in my original post, "Don't trash on me for getting a DJ kit!" Ive already had a thread devoted to this haha!
When I say float plug I mean the little rubber tipped needle/plug that closes the float bowls. I dont know the exact term.
But yes I am using choke. And I do have an extra set of stock needles for the bike so I will try that I guess once I get kerosine for my heater, my garage is unbearable right now. Probably even colder than outisde, it acts like a freaking freezer. But why put back in the stock jet? Won't I run very lean with the K&N and Pipe and no compensation to the main jet?
Also would a DJ kit really make a bike just not start. I heard of them being hard to tune, but not starting?? My riding buddies Suzuki SV reacted to the DJ kit very well.
Quote from: kylegod on January 02, 2010, 09:57:19 AM
HA! I literally almost wrote in my original post, "Don't trash on me for getting a DJ kit!" Ive already had a thread devoted to this haha!
When I say float plug I mean the little rubber tipped needle/plug that closes the float bowls. I dont know the exact term.
But yes I am using choke. And I do have an extra set of stock needles for the bike so I will try that I guess once I get kerosine for my heater, my garage is unbearable right now. Probably even colder than outisde, it acts like a freaking freezer. But why put back in the stock jet? Won't I run very lean with the K&N and Pipe and no compensation to the main jet?
Also would a DJ kit really make a bike just not start. I heard of them being hard to tune, but not starting?? My riding buddies Suzuki SV reacted to the DJ kit very well.
ok, by float plug- gotcha. that would be 'float needle' according to fiche and parts. whatever, long as we know what you're talking about :)
cold sucks. agreed.
yes, the stock jetting will be lean- but not knowing what sizes DJ sent you, and their inconsistancy about naming sizes... it's a step in the right directoin. :)
the DJ kit will make it run poorly, or be harder to tune, yes. DJ kits usually give the impression of more power, because they really, really suck in lower rpm's, and then flood you with higher rpm richness= feels like it pulls more.
the rejetting matrix is a decent guide, not fool proof, and in the wiki. usually, a pipe + k&n = 150 main and 40 idler, 2 or 3 eashers, and 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 turns on the mixture screw. fiddle with the mixture screw if it doesn't idle just perfect. might need a sync after all the fiddling, but i doubt it.
the not starting up at all, well, i'll blame things being apart, and the possibility of an oopsy during re-installation. teh DJ crap (i mean kit) just compounds the problems.
in nother thread we compared the DJ vs stock needles and you can see just how aggressive the tapers differ. can't find the thread now... sorry.
make sure you haven't loosened your plug wires in the coil pack. it's an 'interesting' fit. :)
hmm, what else ? hmm, dunno. try that.
DJ only has you replace the main jet. Its a 122. But I believe their numbers and ratings are different. Cause stock says 122.5. I did find the thread comparing needle taper. They have you use the stock idler jet...this is the smaller jet thats deeper down in the carbs next to the main correct? Those they have you leave stock. They have you drill and tap the holes on the slides and screw in "correctors" I do have an extra set of slides so no big deal there, I can go back to those. Ugh Im blown away at the fact that they would even produce and sell something if it doesnt work. Because like I said, My buddies SV650 loved the dynojet kit.
And concerning a shotty installation i suppose you could be correct. Although i checked, and rechecked over and over. I really think all is installed correctly. The only thing that would be off is the float height. Which ill do when I take the carbs back out.
OK DJ properly installed should not do any starting problems ...
So I am going to glaze over everythign else these guys have already mentioned, its all to be ensured its correct.
You change spark plugs in this whole fiasco ...
If so, you run NGK's in it ?
I'd dump them in favor of champion 809's or whatever the autolite one is.
Had trouble with NGK's in the past ...
Cool.
Buddha.
Yeah I got new NGK, checked and they were gapped properly. As for those other brands, Pick those up at any bike store i suppose? I do have to address the one side being rich, only that one plug gets fueled up. is this a float level problem? Buddha, think weather has any thing to do with this hard starting? Its about 18 degrees in my garage.
How do I lean up the side thats too rich and fouling my plug? Float height or air/fuel mixture screw? And if it is screw...does turning it in richen or lean out?
18 degrees ... so when its that cold what do people do ... walk ?
Its supposed to run well below 0, and NGK crap is gapped right etc etc, just doesn't spark ...
BTW what exactly do you mean by rebuilt ?
I have worked on over 300 carbs ... I am yet to "rebuild" one. So what did you do, put all new metal and everything ?
Cool.
Buddha.
Ok not literally rebuilt. I mean took apart, cleaned, new seals o rings, and float needles. And installed dj kit.
I was just curious if it's the cold that is giving me trouble or at least part of the equation. The one side is too rich as the plug comes out gassed up after a few starts while the other sides plug is fine and stays dry. Both plugs do spark.
So I guess the new question is how to lean out the one side. Float height? Air/fuel screw? And if the screw in or out? Thanks!
Yea I know, new O rings and jets. Got it. DJ crap can be tuned right but no where near as easy as the stock and its series of jets. OK so ...
You set both sides equal ... I really wont set one air screw different unless you have damage in that section on that side.
I will slowly read over your post and get back with what I may have missed.
Cool.
Buddha.
Thanks alot I appreciate it. Thank goodness it's winter.
Quote from: kylegod on January 02, 2010, 11:00:06 AM
DJ only has you replace the main jet. Its a 122. But I believe their numbers and ratings are different. Cause stock says 122.5. I did find the thread comparing needle taper. They have you use the stock idler jet...this is the smaller jet thats deeper down in the carbs next to the main correct? Those they have you leave stock. They have you drill and tap the holes on the slides and screw in "correctors" I do have an extra set of slides so no big deal there, I can go back to those. Ugh Im blown away at the fact that they would even produce and sell something if it doesnt work. Because like I said, My buddies SV650 loved the dynojet kit.
You are running DJ's needle right ?
122 and DJ needle with pipe and K&N in air box - really doesn't sound that far off. It should work. Or atleast start.
OK so to reiterate - 122 DJ, DJ needle on position 2 I presume, 3 turns on mix screw, stock pilot jets, and float set to the top of the float bowl ?
Sorry man nothing sounds like its off if this is what you're running.
OK could you do me 1 favor. Put the old spark pligs back in and try it. NGK new plugs are garbage sometimes. I dont care it sparks, I dont care it looks good and is gapped proper. Something internal is off ... yea 100 years of spark plug making and we have figured out how to screw it up ... but please put the old ones back in.
BTW wiring on the auxillary ground line is good ? That can cause it to not start ... especially on 1 cyl.
Cool.
Buddha.
Yes DJ 122 main, DJ needle, K&N stock box is all right. 2 screw turns out, or at least DJ tells me to do that. As far as float bowls, kept them as was.
As for plugs, I didnt replace them when I did the carbs. I replaced them about 200 miles prior to the carbs. But never ever had a problem with them or had any starting issues.
The only carb issue I may have is float height, but I did a quick measure when I had them apart, and they were darnn close to spec according to the Clymers book. I also quickly did the test with the clear fuel hose on the gs500wiki. If anything the fuel may have been a hair higher than where it should have been according to the test. But I cant see this being the reason the bike wont start at all.
So this auxillary ground...I know nothing about it. If its bad would it still crank? Cause motor does crank and I did get a couple back fires but that was it.
And as far as the one plug getting fouled, could this be a a float height issue? Because now that I think about it when I did that test with the clear hose, I only did one side, the side that DOESNT have the fouling issue. Duh...
Thanks a bunch.
200 miles on plugs, OK they are not the problem.
Auxillary ground is the skinnier wire from the negative of the battery. It will crank and even start usually but only run on 1 cyl.
You have some other problem ... I'd have to think it over ... may not yeild much though. Stock floats or close to it is OK. 2 turns is a bit low, try 3 for mix screws. But sorry the rest all seems great.
Cool.
Buddha.
attach a piece of hose to the carb drains, and check float height and fuel presence
Quote from: jeremy_nash on January 04, 2010, 02:35:09 PM
attach a piece of hose to the carb drains, and check float height and fuel presence
Yeah I did that on the one side and fuel height was about level with the gasket, maybe a bit higher, but I only did this on one side, like a dummy. Ill check the other side. Prob tomorrow. Off to apprenticeship classes.
And Buddha thanks a lot for looking through the thread and trying to help me out. I look at the Aux wire, and do another turn on the screws. And I apologize for the dumb question, but does turning the screws out make it richer or leaner? Thanks again!
Im sure the fridged weather doesnt help the situation at getting it started either, so im going to run the kerosine heater for a while and warm up the air in the garage. Although I doubt itll help that much, my honda xr250l kickstarts first kick in the coldest of cold.
Air screw out = richer.
You have to tune it on the coldest day you have in your area. I freeze to death every time a new bike shows up needing a tune
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on January 04, 2010, 02:31:29 PM
200 miles on plugs, OK they are not the problem.
Auxillary ground is the skinnier wire from the negative of the battery. It will crank and even start usually but only run on 1 cyl.
.
when you say skinnier wire from the negative of the battery...are there two wires that come from the negative side? Meaning positive has one red wire and negative side has a black negative and a skinnier "auxillary" wire? Please please say yes and have this silliness be the problem. The bike has Been apart for so long...I don't even recall putting two wires on the negative side of the battery. Doh!
To the post there is 1 fat wire and another one that is piggy backed on it. About 3 inches out from that there is a black plug that has to be plugged in right. That is where the trouble usually is. The battery post has them both crimped as 1 though.
Cool.
Buddha.
What does it plug into exactly...sorry I'm in class otherwise I'd go see for myself
One lesson to be learned from this is NOT to do too many mods at one time.
prs
Quote from: Pigeonroost on January 04, 2010, 09:04:44 PM
One lesson to be learned from this is NOT to do too many mods at one time.
prs
Too many mods? Hmmm, All I did, pigeon, was install a K&N and rejet my carbs and installed new seals, o-rings, and float needles with "rebuild kits." The battery was on it's way out anyway, but I hardly consider this a mod, more like a maintenance thing.
Quote from: The Buddha on January 04, 2010, 11:10:21 AM
I have worked on over 300 carbs ... I am yet to "rebuild" one. So what did you do, put all new metal and everything ?
Cool.
Buddha.
what do you want a cookie? :D
I dont think he did too many mods. He did one or more mods wrong though ... sorry couldn't resist.
The wire is a single wire black with a white stripe I believe and its maybe 14-16 guage and fits into a single black plug with that clicking in thing. Make sure its getting good contact if it is even fitted.
Cool.
Buddha.
i think some one on this post was looking for the thread that compared dyno jet needle to stock needle?
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=51178.0
What exactly does the needle do? And what's the point of tapering it like that
the steep taper causes several 1/4 to 3/4 throttle problems. The reason it is that way is that back when they started carbs all had no caps on their mixture screws. There fore you didn;t have to pull the carbs to jet them. Or carbs had mix screws on top ... either way, if that is the setup you can jet it by just removing the caps and swapping out your needle, no need to pull the carbs off the bike.
However on a GS that is impossible, mix screws need to be adjusted ... so its a stupid idea.
Now that steep taper causes too much of a change in mixture proportions because of the drastic nature and prevents it form making smooth transitions, and that is why they make you plug holes in your slides.
You do that and the slide slows its rate of rise and it seems to graduate the needle better. That still leaves too many things to adjust and get em right. Can you get it on the nose wiht a DJ pack in it - definetly, is it as slam dunk as the 40/125/3 turns/1 washer combo hell no.
Anyway now you did something wrong ... not just a bit lean here rich there and what not ... you did somehting huge ... like fit the carbs backwards ... you didn't happen to do that did you ?
I'd trouble shoot it pretty cheap ... free or under $25 even if I have to pull the carb apart ... but 2 way mailing gonna cost ya 20 bones ...
I dunno, some variation of operator error.
Cool.
Buddha.
Carbs are on the right way. I have yet to check that battery wire. I will check in a few hours after work. the kit was installed correctly. I've done carb work before so I have some background. I also have a ln extra set of gs500 carbs so I can go back to stock slides if dj really gives me a problem. But I'd like to give the dj kit a chance since I spent the money ya know?
Yea $$, time, thinking, sleep, busted knuckles, freezing cold ...
Cool.
Buddha.
Exactly. Along with lady time, work, and apprenticeship school.
[/quote]
Too many mods? Hmmm, All I did, pigeon, was install a K&N and rejet my carbs and installed new seals, o-rings, and float needles with "rebuild kits." The battery was on it's way out anyway, but I hardly consider this a mod, more like a maintenance thing.
[/quote]
My bad. I thought you had an exhaust change in there too. I understand the "economy" of doing thing sin bunches, but it sure can get confuserated....
prs
We do everything in winter and wonder why nothing works in spring ... that's the rules.
Cool.
Buddha.
it's all good. pipe came with bike.
Aux wire was fine. Unclipped it, filed it and made a nice shiny new surface. No start. Even with that new battery, it sounds like it's struggling to crank. And as soon as I try to start it once the battery tender turns on it's red light which means charging...
I guess i'm taking carbs out and apart again next free day or night.
Any thoughts about this battery nonsense though?
Charge the battery ... the bloody cold man ... awful for batteries.
Cool.
Buddha.
Suppose my battery tender isnt quite a proper charger then eh? It really struggles to crank and after the first time forget it...struggles real hard.
And Buddha, Id like to know what your package entails and cost. I have original slides and needles to go back to if DJ doesnt work out. So..can ya give me a quote and what Id get.
K&N in stock box. Corbra f1 pipe. Those are only mods. You give main jet, washers, and a pilot jet? Is this correct? Thanks. Been a big help.
$25 shipped for jet pack, free to $25 for trouble shooting DJ with no guarantees, free to $25 for mikuni trouble shooting with a guarantee it will work (or trouble isn't in the carb) and add shipping to the carb work prices.
$45 for a rejet - parts and labor of course add shipping ... only 1 pair of stuff drill out included.
And please dont send me anything now, its gonna be freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezing cold for 2 weeks ... then I got welding anniversary and kiddo's B'day ... nothing till feb ... sorry.
Cool.
Buddha.
What do you drill? I was planning on just getting the kit shipped to me...confused... Main, pilot, and washers is the kit? Sorry if im missing something ha, long day.
Mains pilots washers bolts = kit.
Drilling is for brass caps on air screws or stuck bolts ... wasn't specific to your case, I just put that up as a standard list.
BTW I dont know if you made some error ... my kit wont make a dead bike run ... I think you got something off ...
Damned if my brain isn't on the fritz right now with kiddo screaming "mommy" and mom yelling at me about beer rings ... and asking me to help the kid ... WTF ... and phone ringing ... gaaaa ...
Man, I dunno what could be wrong.
Cool.
Buddha.
Ha dont worry. Take care of your family and priorities. But if anything comes to mind, feel free to post. Im borrowing a charger from my boss/riding buddy tomorrow to get a nice full charge. And one of these nights or weekend days (hopefully this weekend) im going to pull carbs out again for the 50th time and check over one more time. But im almost 100% carbs, fuel, and vacuum lines are all correct. I used the fuel/vacuum line write up on the bottom of the gstwins homepage to put them all back together and double checked in the clymers book. Thanks. Ill PM you if I end up needing that kit.
Gaaaa ... that's what I am working on avoiding ...
Cool.
Buddha.
haha! ok then why wont my bike start!!
Just kidding. Have fun... and if anything comes to mind feel free to let me know. I think a solid battery charge, warm garage, and one more look over the carbs will do the job. And if the DJ job drives me bonkers, ill sell it on ebay and buy from you. I have a feeling the latter will happen. Stuff like this never works out for me...
I've had DJ act up while riding. This could be a first one and pretty bad even for a DJ kit.
I am sorry I have only tuned 1 bike with the kit and not entirely sure how to iron out all its problems.
Let me slowly read your post again.
Cool.
Buddha.
OK man ... first idea ... pull the carbs off and get those pilots out without disturbing what clogged them.
Its OK if they get ruined, you're better off putting 40's in there. Then send me $10 or find em @ local store.
Cool.
Buddha.
Ok. Will do. What size are stock pilots out of curiosity. And would the floats still fill with gas if the pilots were clogged?
Floats fill via the float needle and seat. Nothing to do with pilots. For start up its pilots and air screws.
Stock is 37.5 for US bikes. Its 40 for a canadian and european bikes. I sell the 40's and makes for quicker warm ups when cold especially. 1 min in winter, 2 mins in summer before it will hold idle. Yea when its in the teens, make it 2 min.
Cool.
Buddha.
Jeez. Was walking out to my garage last night to rip the carbs out again to check pilots, and ended up ripping my medial meniscus again. Went to my surgeon today, surgery next week. Ugh. So i never even made it to my tool chest to start taking apart again. Hopefully this will be my last knee surgery for a while.
Oh crap ... yea ... getting better is more important. Dirt in the pilot jet will prolly still be there.
Cool.
Buddha.
Im taking them out tomorrow and checking. Im sure this is it. I got a batt charger and got good cranks. nothing but a backfire or two. Now that i think about it, when i cleaned the carbs i never bothered to check the pilots. ill keep you posted.
Ok took carbs back off and cleaned. Put back together. Jumped battery to car because the battery clearly hates the weather and cant crank fast enough. And it started! After cranking it for about 30 seconds straight. Now I just have to set the idle. It turns off if I dont have the throttle on. I went in after this, I was too frozen to go any further.
Yeaaaaa ... fine now put 40 pilots in it and go for a ride ... frozen ... what are you a girl.
Cool.
Buddha.
40 pilots work with DJ kit? And no not a girl...Bum knee. Ah who am I kidding Im a girl. hah. I hate the cold. And idle is too screwy yet I gotta set that. Wont run without me being on throttle. Man that idle screw is sensitive. I feel like I can do 15 turns and barely any difference. Any tips or guess on how many turns it is until its semi close to idling without throttle input?
40 pilots should work in any carb DJ or not ... DJ kit doesn't address that low end leanness.
The idle being insensitive is likely cos its lean down low. Air screw to richen it and pilots too ... then that idle screw should work. There is not set turns, but the butterflies should be open to atleast let a sliver of light through if you look at the sun through the carbs.
If the left and rights are not equal, adjust the center spring loaded screw so they are ... that is called synching. Eyeball synch works pretty well, I've never had to buy a vacuum guage in this many years.
Cool.
Buddha.
ok. A friend of mine has the vacuum gauge so i'm probably going to take advantage of it. But, If i do eyeball it, what am i looking for? So the butterflies are open the same amount on both sides?
Yes same amount og light on both sides ... sometimes you need to lower the thing with idle screw to get it properly eyeballed, you also should get the butterflies dry and clean ... gas or wd40 can sometimes film up and make it weird and in correct. I think eyeball is more accurate, but some bikes can be a PITA to eyeball, like my maxim X ... beeeeyatch to get the carbs off.
Cool.
Buddha.
Buddha, three questions, please and thank you.
First, you may have said it already and I cant find it, but what size mains do you sell in your kit for pipe, stock box k&n. I believe you said 125 main. Along with 40 pilots and 1 washer above clip on needle...right?
Second, I know DJ has their own sizing, (ie stock is 122.5 and they give you a 122, which is supposed to be bigger?). You sell Mikuni in your package I think? Big difference between the DJ-122 and your 125?
Third, have you ever seen or experienced success with the DJ main 122, with a stock needle rather than the DJ taper, and have it at your suggested 1 washer?
Im really kicking myself in the ass for buying this DJ kit, especially at 70 bucks or whatever it was.
Thanks a bunch.
PS, Have any experience with Honda carbs? Specifically the xr250?
Eh?
Quote from: kylegod on January 12, 2010, 09:12:06 PM
Buddha, three questions, please and thank you.
First, you may have said it already and I cant find it, but what size mains do you sell in your kit for pipe, stock box k&n. I believe you said 125 main. Along with 40 pilots and 1 washer above clip on needle...right?
Pipe and air box K&N = 127.5 mains. Pipe and lunch box K&N = 150 mains.
Quote from: kylegod on January 12, 2010, 09:12:06 PM
Second, I know DJ has their own sizing, (ie stock is 122.5 and they give you a 122, which is supposed to be bigger?). You sell Mikuni in your package I think? Big difference between the DJ-122 and your 125?
I suspect their 122 is nearly the same as the 122.5 mikuni. They send you 118 for stock applications. The needle being so steeply tapered compensates for it being smaller.
Quote from: kylegod on January 12, 2010, 09:12:06 PM
Third, have you ever seen or experienced success with the DJ main 122, with a stock needle rather than the DJ taper, and have it at your suggested 1 washer?
122 I have not used, However their 134 for the K&N lunch box and pipe was a bit too loean, mine seemed to work OK with 137.5 mains.
Quote from: kylegod on January 12, 2010, 09:12:06 PM
Im really kicking myself in the ass for buying this DJ kit, especially at 70 bucks or whatever it was.
Thanks a bunch.
PS, Have any experience with Honda carbs? Specifically the xr250?
Sorry no experience with the XR250 carbs, but the keihein series I have worked on. I could not tell you what jets to run in it but can set up the thing right for a stock bike. I cant however do it for a K&N that is clamped on. Reason is, I dont know how much flow etc will be killed by that air box ... if its really convoluted it can kill off a lot. Since I cant see it, I dunno that aspect.
Cool.
Buddha.
Got the idle pretty good. Sat at around 1200 but it randomly and more and more surges to about 5K and will generally sit there. I eyeballed the butterfly valves and they werent perfect but close. And I dont think they are so out of sync that it would surge this bad.
Vacuum problem I guess? I came back in for the night, but from quickly looking, the boots looked good. The vacuum hose to the left carb is good from what I saw. Any other places where a vacuum leak could happen?
Shoots to 5K on revving or all by itself ...
WD40 test for leaks.
Handlebar left and right check wiht revving for cable bind.
You cant be just lean ? plugs look white as a ghost now ?
Cool.
Buddha.
Goes by itself sitting still. Explain wd40 test?
Im still only two turns out with DJ. Should I do another turn? I have a good feeling ill be buying your jet kit buddha.
@ idle spray wd40 by the manifolds. Revving up higher or smoking out the manifold = intake leak.
Does it move/change when you move the handlebar - that = cable is pulling .. .choke and throttle can both act up.
Else yea 3 is OK, so is 4-5-6 ... OK 6 is a bit extreme ... it may fall out ... but for an experiment 6 is OK.
More than the kit, you may need the 40 pilots ... tune it and atleast you can help people who are trying to get it right with DJ.
I think if you cant get the idle racing under control with 5 or so, do 40's ... but ride it first before deciding what you want to go to.
Cool.
Buddha.
Wow do I feel stupid. Checked this morning to see if I ever tightened the hose clamps on the boots to the engine. Nope. Gonna start it after work tonight and see if that was it, which I'm sure it was.
Ha ... been there done that, gone for a ride and had it die at the expressway off ramp to the local dealer.
Then I notice the bloody thing hanging off ... then I wait to get it cool and slip it back on and limp to the dealer 1/2 mile away, then tighten there and ride home.
BTW In my case it was the fact that the new boots dont perfectly click in to the old carbs. Not having an air box makes it slip out more easily. I strapped the carbs on the motor and it was fine. Yea it was 09 summer when it happened. Not ancient history. So not like I get any better with age.
Cool.
Buddha.
So ya think this is a good reason it was surging like that? Because boots look foe otherwise.
Yea air going in will cause idle ro race.
Cool.
Buddha.
Ok. Starts easily, and idles perfectly now with no fluctuation. Throttle and choke cables are fine. Just replaced the fuel lines and vacuum line for the heck of it.
BUT when I give it throttle input say above 3K it will stay there for a little then slowly come back down to 1200. This is after it is warmed and not choked. But it doesnt fluctuate by itself.
If I put it in gear and start to pull away the revs also go back down right away.
Talked to a buddy of mine who rides and works on an SV650. Says his did the same thing after he rejetted. He then had his carbs synched and the problem went away.
So im hoping that this a syncing problem?
if your carbs were synched to begin with than installing the dyno kit wouldnt mess em up. but go for that. i wish i woul have read this a day ago. my bike was fluctuating idling high on choke (which i know it should idle high on choke) but just opening the choke a little bit would kill it so i started a tear down. gonna freshen everything up and make sure its right when i put it back together
I dont know if they were synched. The original ones i took off had a seized air/fuel screw. Eventually tried to drill it and extract it and still wouldnt budge. The previous owner destroyed the threads when drilling out the cap. So I bought these off ebay. They were an older year and had been off the bike and sitting for some time, but were actually in much better condition than the ones I had. Just needed a good cleaning.
I dont think a vacuum leak would do what my bike is doing...would it?
WTF, dude synch or not will make it vibrate more ... not much else. If it vibrates more at idle and reduces as the rpm goes up that is a poor synch. Of course it can also be a slight cable hang ... if that is perfect, then open air screw, or open air screw, if it affects it then its a good cable. Easier to open the air screw than fiddle the throttle cable looking for a rough spot.
On an SV assuming first gen they run different jetting in the 2 cyls, and hence synching can affect mix and vice versa more than the GS. 2nd gen was FI.
You need to open the air screws 1/4 turn. DJ garbage does not address the lean down low problem. Pilots do, but you are almost there so just go open the air screws. Past 5.5-6 is danger zone. It will fall out after 8, so you get up there in the 5-6 range, put a cap on the outside of the fitting, so it it falls off atleast it doesn't get away from you.
Cool.
Buddha.
Thottle cable and choke are fine. Had my surgery today, so this weekend ill go out to the garage and turn out the screws.
How would turning the screws eliminate the rpms hanging?
The rpm climbs or hovers when there is a lean mix ... weird but it also can drop rpm's and cough etc when that is the case ... but only under load. At idle it always hovers. Hovering, hanging, at no load, surging under steady load, and misfiring and dropping rpm under hard load (acceleration and higher revs) are all signs of leannes.
Rich tends to drop rpm's below the idle rpm and slowly climb back to idle, it also has a loss of power and poor response when openign the throttle and definite loss of power up top ... like if you pull 10K with the right jets, put 1 size larger mains and you'd lose 2K rpm.
You're slow to return, that is 1/4 turn out or even less. 1/8th maybe. Do 14 and if it starts to drop under the set rpm and rev back up, then screw in 1/8th.
Cool.
Buddha.
gotcha. just out of curiousity, why does leanness make the rpms hang? mechanically why does this happen? just wandering. Thanks alot. Big help with getting my bike back to working order. i appreciate it.
Leaner mixtures run hotter. Hotter cyls seal better, that causes more vacuum and sucks in more air ...
Lean motors as a consequence make a wee bit more power. There has been cases of exhaust pipes turning red hot as well as other general overheating problems.
You need it to run just a shade rich, so it will get the full effect of quenching as well as not give you other symptoms of richness. Of course that is assuming you want to run the bike for many years and several 1000's of miles.
Cool.
Buddha.
I see. I'm still kinda bed ridden from surgery but will probably go out to the garage tomorrow. So get it warmed and at idle and do 1/8 turn on each side and see if it still hang after throttle input
Dude take your time. No one to please but yourself. I'll still remember the same as I always do about your carb ... yea ... next to 0 ... yup gotcha ... now what was your name again. Kyle ... sounds like pile.
Cool.
Buddha.
Ah. All better. Idles perfect. RPMs dont hang. Seems like it starts easier too with less choke needed. And no hesitation and sputtering from 1-5K like before the jet kit. Im sure once I start riding more ill fine tune and fiddle with air/fuel screw.
Seems like all my problems were related to me being a dumbass and having a kaput battery. But it rides nice with the DJ kit. Maybe ill get that 40 pilot one day but i dont see the need for it so much. Perhaps I will once riding season comes and I feel its necessary. But down low it was strong and slight to full throttle inputs were smooth.
Thanks alot for the help though, especialy buddha.
You now have the air screws @ 3.5 right - yea OK 40 pilots are not needed ... however make sure your floats are at the gasket level ... in older bikes the floats go high and cover for leanness down low ... hurts when you open the throttle and its a bit soft, and gas mileage. But you would be fine if they are set right.
Cool.
Buddha.
Na they are around 2.5 turns maybe a bit less. Should I go more? The plugs seemed an alright tan color...but I only rode it about 8 miles. LIke i said once i ride it more im sure ill wanna screw around with them. And ill check the floats, thanks.
btw, was wandering if you had a spare part floating around. where the two side panels meet in the back, that piece that clicks in between them and screws down. I lost it...dont ask.
That little part is the hardest to find ... I dont have one.
2.5 is fine ... leanness shows when its cold outside and motor is cold. You get it tan color in this weather in a short ride .. .its fine.
Cool.
Buddha.
Yeah but today is 50 out haha. Only reason I rode.
I'll look around for that part. Maybe someone on here who eliminated their panels has one. I may have forgotten to put the two screws on when I rode today. But it does "click" on so I'd be surprised if It fell off. Also I don't see the screws laying around the garage so maybe it's just hiding.