At this point I have concluded that GS500(f) tire size upgrade suggestions are 90% folklore and 10% actual results.
After reading countless threads, reviews, and how-to's, I can simply come to no other conclusion.
Unlike jetting on the USA version of the GS500 where
the need and results of the upgrade are obvious, suggestions for "upgrading" the tire sizes on the GS500 (based on its stock 3.5" rims) are at best inconclusive. I have even seen some state that when it comes to size, anything other than the stock 110/70 and 130/70 rubber will cause little more than a slight cosmetic change and a degradation of predetermined handling characteristics.
I understand that on this forum there are track racers, modded geometry bikes, Katana upgrades, etc...
But these statements are intended toward the typical GS used for sport/street riding. So all you cutting-edge guys don't get upset here. <peace bro>
So, like many of the "Average Joe" GS riders here. . .
I can afford any tires I wish.
Now-a-days there are many sporty tires such as the Pirelli Sport Demons that are available in our stock size.
Most members here have the mechanical skills required to fit any size tire they wish onto their bike.
So the burning question is: Why would one bother to go to "fat" rubber?
Are stock sized skins on a GS500
really that horrible? :dunno_black:
Larger fronts - wider or taller does very little good and a good bit of harm, slower steering with the 120 width is a common occourance.
Rear, 140 or 4 or 4.5 wide wheels running 150/160 sometimes let you get better rubber and hence better handling. Metzeler z2/z4 etc and others dont come in the stock rear sizes.
Cool.
Buddha.
INPUT, exactly what's needed here. :cheers:
From what I've read here most of the guys who go to fatter rubber do it for looks. I agree with the notion that if you think you "need" more grip than the stock rubber for the street you're riding too hard and you will be injured or killed soon. If a person's riding is really that good he probably isn't riding a GS 500 anymore.
I stayed with stock rubber for several reasons, cost, mileage, and performance. I don't want to spin any more unsprung weight than I have to and I have no desire to put expensive tires on a cheap bike. I also think the stock wheels are fine as-is.
If you look at Dave Johnson's racing page on this website he tells all about racing his GS 500. If I remember correctly he uses a 130 rear, so there's no need to put massive rubber on this bike.
I've used 110/70, 110/80, and 120/70 fronts and 130/70, 130/80, 130/90, 140/70, 140/80, and 150/70 rears on the stock 3.0 and 3.5" rims on my GS500s for various reasons. On the other hand I've never seen any good reason to rejet my GSs in over 150k miles of GS500 riding year around here in NE Ohio. Different strokes for different folks I guess. :icon_lol:
There is nothing wrong with the stock 110/70 and 130/70 tire sizes and there are some very good bias ply sport touring tires available in these sizes now. I've been riding GS500s for about 11 years now and that was not always the case. There was a very big improvement in wet traction when I first went from bias to radial tires on my 97 GS about 8 years ago. Improvements in both compounds and tire profiles have reduced this difference considerably since then.
I like the 12070 and 150/70 bias Roadriders best right now but I might try a 150/70 sport touring radial rear again next summer. :thumb:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GS500tirelog.jpg
I think the overall best handling tires I've had on the GSs were the 110/80 bias Lasertec front with the 150/70 RoadAttack radial rear. Both are sport touring type tires, I see no need for supersport tires on a GS for street use and the available 150/60 supersport is not as good a fit on a 3.5" rim as the 150/70 sport touring radial.
I personally went with a larger tire for looks, but also because of the larger safety net available with better tires. what I mean is that if tire X is good for 30 degrees leaning, and tire Y is good for 20 degrees leaning, I feel safer on tire Y while leaning, even if only at 30 degrees. It may be total rubbish, and I just trust the tires-bike more now than when I was on stock sizes, but it makes sense in my head. and for that, I will keep my 150-70 160-60 rear and 120-70 front on my matching katana rims :thumb:
It's a bit dated now but here's what David Johnson said about tires in the Racers Corner:
Tires
Race rubber is readily available for the GS 500, probably because it uses the same tires as Aprillia cup bikes. On a racing GS, the front tire size is the same as stock (110-70-17). For the rear, most racers I know use a 150-60-17 (stock is 130-70-17). The fitment guide will tell you the rim is too narrow for this tire. It is, but this does not result in bead failure, even under extreme racing conditions. It does modify the profile enough so that it impossible to get all the way to the edge of the tire. If you can't live with that, you can have your wheel widened to 4 inches by Kosman Specialties (http://www.kosman.net) for about $375, but then you won't be legal in Supersport class. I once tried the other racing tire choice (Metzler 140-80-17) and hated it. It is taller tire than stock and a non-radial. The bike steered like a cow, flopped unpredictably into corners and felt very top heavy. When I switched to the 150 radials, I almost drove off the inside of the track because it turned so easily. Race rubber is available from Dunlop (D-207GP and D-208GP), Michelin (Pilot), Metzler (Rennsport), and Pirelli (Dragon Supercorsa) in sizes 110-70-17 and 150-60-17. The Supercorsa and Rennsport are the exact same tire with different tread patterns. This makes sense since Pirelli and Metzler are the same company. Most people at BIR have historically run Michelins or Metzlers, depending on which manufacturers were offering contingency money. The way contingency works is you use their tires, fill in the form during race registration, put their decals on your bike, and finish well in the race (usually fifth or higher), and you get certificates useable for your next tire purchase. I have ridden the Michelin Pilots and Metzler ME Z3's back to back, and could not feel any real difference. I believe any big name race rubber will perform adequately, so go where the money is or just pick one randomly and see how you like it.
I think most are using the BT090 and BT003 tires now for racing available in a 140/70 rear size:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=49776.0
Jetting (mentioned above) brings up an issue that I wanted to somehow insert into the thread-starter but might as well mention right here.
The issue is: All GS's are not the same.
There are significant differences between the different model years and also the country codes. Dimensions, weights, jetting, carburetion, tires, suspension, etc...
I have found it surprising that when researching mods and performance parts for my 2007 USA bound "F" bike, most of what is out there is obviously geared toward the earlier GS models, (the E bikes).
I have learned that the post 2003, fully faired, USA bound F bike is more of the oddity than the norm in the world of GS500's. Simply pulling the fairings off a 2009 F bike does not make it the well supported and often sought after early E bike.
Therefore the fact that all GS500's are discussed as it they were one universal machine does seem a bit odd to me.
The specific tricks & mods that make a 1998 GS500E sweet, can be substantially different than what makes my late model "albatross" bike purr.
Back to tires. . .
I really like the idea of putting bigger rubber on my GS, but to perfectly honest, I just don't have the experience (confidence?) to make that call.
After all I have read, my only conclusion can be "If your not sure what your doing, just stay with the proven 110/70 & 130/70 program".
-Ej-
P.S. Thanks for educating (and not flaming).
I sure dont want to spend money to make my bike worse! :wink:
Quote from: Electrojake on January 12, 2010, 04:20:02 PM
The issue is: All GS's are not the same.
There are significant differences between the different model years and also the country codes. Dimensions, weights, jetting, carburetion, tires, suspension, etc...
There's really not much mechanical differences between E and F bikes. There are different carbs (3 circuit) used on the '03 up bikes and an oil cooler was added due to the fairings. Between different countries the only difference I'm aware of is factory jetting and the type of needle used (movable clip). If you really wanted I'm sure you could retrofit a set of '89-00 carbs. Other than those differences all the mechanical mods for an E model also apply to an F. The basics are carb jetting, intake/exhaust and suspension upgrades.
As for the tires, I have had good luck the the Bridgestone BT-45's for street use. I also have a pair of cheap Kenda Kruizers on one bike and don't notice any real handling difference in normal riding. I haven't had the Kenda's on long enough to attest to how well they wear.
-Jessie
I bought some super cheap tires to put on my bike for spring, I'll let you guys know how they do! :thumb:
I don't plan on riding that rough this time around, I just wanted to get the bike back on the road.
Yep, based on what I read the stock tires seems to be the best way to go if your not looking at the cosmetics,which, I am! I would like to go to the 140"s but I'm not sure if they are all taller. I just want the fattest tire that makes it act like a stock bike. Not to much to ask, right? I'll probably just stay with the stock tires in the end :dunno_white:
The 3 circuit carbs started with the 01 models, my 02 has the 3 circuit ones.
Quote from: Electrojake on January 12, 2010, 12:08:08 PM
Are stock sized skins on a GS500 really that horrible? :dunno_black:
The short answer is, heck no. It's a perfectly good size, for this bike, for track and street. And 130, 140, even 150, it's going to look small compared to the 180, 190 you see on stock sport bikes now. Smaller tires are less likely to hydroplane, they weigh less, they're usually cheaper, and they make the bike respond faster. Bigger maybe looks "cool" (cause yeah, now the guy on the gixxer is going to think you're any cooler with your 150 rear), is more stable, handles higher speeds and more power (the greater surface area can deal with more heat), and the selection is much larger. That's all there is to it IMHO. Raw grip is a function of compound, then profile and tread design. In stock sizes, the Demons will keep up with ANY street behavior, the BT003s will keep with track use. Done.
I've done the 140 rear for no real well thought out reason (I'm 200+ lbs with gear and use it on track, but maybe that doesn't really matter) and it doesn't affect the dynamics of the bike.
Ah, found it!
A quote from a knowledgeable fellow by the name of gsJack. . .
"A 130 will more than handle the power output of the GS. If you want better traction, then you want stickier rubber rather than wider tires."
That was extracted from the 'Pablo's GS500 Page' at http://pantablo500.tripod.com/id25.html (http://pantablo500.tripod.com/id25.html)
I knew I read that someplace during my travels!
------------------------------------------------------------
As for jetting. . .
The winter warm-up time on my 07 GS500F was ridiculous. Bumping up the pilots to 22.5 made things reasonable. Sounds rich but plug-chops look good. (Nope, I don't have access to a dyno or a wideband A/F ratio meter).
Anyway, I would be foolish to not realize that I am the student here, not the instructor.
Or better put; A cager that tinkers with bikes, not the other way around. :angel:
I am fairly new to my gs500. And got it late this season and havent done that much mileage on it. But, from what Ive learned riding it, the stock size tires are fine and fit the bikes handling characteristics fine. (mind you my rear shock is stock and front is progressive springs with 20w oil.) I have yet to do a track day with it, but I have really impressed some more experienced riders with bigger better handling bikes. I ride Pirelli sport demons. Not for any specific reasons besides the fact they were on sale, $210 for front and rear. But I have, very easily, gotten my knee down and completely diminished any chicken strips. I say the stock size tires are fine for the gs500 and its moderate power. If youre looking to exceed these tires' limits and get bigger, you probably should get a bigger bike.
Mind you I have very little knowledge about suspension and tires, and just putting in my two sense. But if youre looking for bigger tires because youve reached your cornering limits on your gs and feel you can go farther, then you are probably reaching your speed limits cornering wise too. Rather than modifying and swapping your gs's suspension and tires drastically with the mediocre power it has, get an SV650 or something else if youre not partial to suzukis.
Again, I have little knowledge compared to most of you probably have when it comes to motorcycle suspension, but this just makes sense. Also, I am babbling, I have surgery next week and am on quite a few pain killers.... :D
I run the sport demons in stock size and get phenomenal grip on the street. they have substantially more grip than the stock bt45 (which aren't bad). Although I do touch my knee down at a slower speed in the gs than on my bros zx6r with 190 wide rear, on the same turn of course. so I think the wider tire helps to translate lean angle into turn radius better, but better compound helps as well.
Quote from: kylegod on January 12, 2010, 10:10:28 PM
But if you're looking for bigger tires because you've reached your cornering limits on your GS and feel you can go farther, then you are probably reaching your speed limits cornering wise too.
Your statements made me chuckle. :D
I haven't reached the cornering limits of my bike (or anybody else's) since about 1984.
My 54 year old knees and battle damaged back keep me well within my bike's limits. <
heh-heh>
Its reassuring to see comments from a variety of skill levels here.
I appreciate the input.
Also. . .
Do those Pirelli Sport Demons seem stable in the rain, or is it white-knuckle time on the wet?
Thanks,
-Ej-
I need race take off's and I cant find them easy in the 130. 150 or so is easy, and they are free. Go to 1 race and you can scrape up enough for a life time. They run 1 race and in the trash it goes.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: Electrojake on January 13, 2010, 04:44:41 PM
Quote from: kylegod on January 12, 2010, 10:10:28 PM
But if you're looking for bigger tires because you've reached your cornering limits on your GS and feel you can go farther, then you are probably reaching your speed limits cornering wise too.
Your statements made me chuckle. :D
I haven't reached the cornering limits of my bike (or anybody else's) since about 1984.
My 54 year old knees and battle damaged back keep me well within my bike's limits. <heh-heh>
Its reassuring to see comments from a variety of skill levels here.
I appreciate the input.
Also. . .
Do those Pirelli Sport Demons seem stable in the rain, or is it white-knuckle time on the wet?
Thanks,
-Ej-
The sport demons are as good if not better in the rain than the stock bt45s. the ONLY downside to the pirellis is the wear rate. I got 10000 miles out of the rear bt45s doing lots of wheelies and some burnouts. the pirelli only lasts 6-7000 miles in the same conditions
My friend with an sv650 just got Honda f3 wheels. To go from 4.75 to 5 inch rear...I may buy his sv rear now. From what I've read I just need new gs sized bearings and a new torque arm...from a kat? Or can I bend mine?
first gen sv650 wheel is a direct bolt on, use the gs sprocket carrier, and bend out your brake torque arm. maybe shim your sprocket out with a washer depending on tire you choose. I have personally done it, and that is my experience
oh, and it is a 4.5 inch rear for a first gen sv650,
i have to order through a dealership who gets everything from parts canada does anyone know if there is a 130/70 rear tire besides the bridgestone battalax or whatever its called...i need a new one in the spring and i want to try something maybe a bit better...or are the bridgestones fairly good tires themselves?
I took a minute to look at the Parts Canada catalogs and it seems they carry them all. Found Avon Roadrider, ContiGo, Bridgestone BT45, Metzeler Lasertec, Michelin Pilot Activ, and Pirelli Sport Demons in the 130/70-17 size. Take your pic. :icon_lol:
Quote from: gsJack on January 24, 2010, 07:45:36 PM
I took a minute to look at the Parts Canada catalogs and it seems they carry them all. Found Avon Roadrider, ContiGo, Bridgestone BT45, Metzeler Lasertec, Michelin Pilot Activ, and Pirelli Sport Demons in the 130/70-17 size. Take your pic. :icon_lol:
oh last time i had to get a new rear tire the dealer said bridgestone was all they had in that size and he even had an avon catalog...weird :dunno_black:
well thank you thats great to know that they do carry the others and i will be sure to look into them and their pricing
when i took a quick look i couldnt find them i kept on finiding front tires lol i'll try again tomorrow...its been a long day lol
nevermind...just found all of them and their stock numbers