Hi. So, in this recent post (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=51452.0), I tore my cylinder head and cylinders out. I ended up taking the cylinder to one machine shop and the head to another (one that specialized in heads). The cylinders are newly honed but I'm still waiting for exhaust valves and other parts to show up to get the head back together. In the meantime, I'm planning the reconstruction of the engine. I ordered new gaskets and o-rings and whatnot for the seals between the engine and head and head cover, but I expect to need guidance as I get all the parts back together. Before that, I have a few preliminary questions:
Should I replace the piston rings after a re-hone? Will I have to grind the new ones or something? (I'm very new to "rebuilding" engines, and I don't have a grinder).
Is there anything else I should be replacing while I'm all in there?
What should I do about leaving the engine open (but covered) for a few weeks? Just change the oil twice within 15 minutes?
What about sealants and stuff for the gaskets? Do I have to use Suzuki brands, or can I just use generic stuff?
I'll post as the project continues. Thanks in advance.
QuoteShould I replace the piston rings after a re-hone? Will I have to grind the new ones or something? (I'm very new to "rebuilding" engines, and I don't have a grinder).
yes, the rings should be replaced after honing. when rings are installed they should have the end-gap measured, if there out of spec they will probably need the ends filed down. then once its all assembled, using break-in oil, you will need to do a controlled break in so the rings will seat.
QuoteIs there anything else I should be replacing while I'm all in there?
all the bearings/seals
QuoteWhat should I do about leaving the engine open (but covered) for a few weeks? Just change the oil twice within 15 minutes?
put some oil on all the surfaces to prevent corrosion, you dont want your newly honed iron cylinder liners to get rust on them. they will rust VERY fast.
QuoteWhat about sealants and stuff for the gaskets? Do I have to use Suzuki brands, or can I just use generic stuff?
any good brand should work just as good if not better than suzuki brand. actually a lot of manufacturer branded parts are made by the same company you can buy elsewhere.
Most gaskets on the top end do not use sealant. The only place it will help is on the top cover gasket on the cam hole seals.
-Jessie
as above but a slight smearing of general grease works well on head gasket.
Quote from: JAY W on March 13, 2010, 06:53:18 PM
as above but a slight smearing of general grease works well on head gasket.
copper gasket spray works wonders on head gaskets.
Thanks for the advice. Good to know.
Here's a parts list for this project so far:
VALVE,EXHAUST 2 $86.88
COTTER VALVE 8 $10.00
VALVE STEM OIL 4 $20.04
GASKET, CYLINDE 1 $6.74
GASKET 10.2X20X 4 $5.00
PISTON PIN CIRC 4 $3.56
GASKET,CYL HEAD 1 $22.89
O RING HEAD COV 4 $6.96
GASKET,BREATHER 1 $2.73
GASKET,CYLINDER 1 $27.29
O RING HEAD GAS 4 $16
RING SET,PISTON. 2 $60
GASKET, CAM CHAIN ADJUSTER $1.70
GASKET, CAM CHAIN TENSIONER $2.11
FILTER,ENGINE OIL $4.77
The honing was $40 and I'm not sure what installing/working on the head and valves will be. Probably around $200.
dude just go buy a cylinder honing attachment for a drill and do it yourself. cheeper than 40 bucks, and then you can do your all your buddies' cylinders for 25 a peice so you make money and they save money.
Well. I finally got the head back and it's beautiful. I got the parts too. And today, I tried putting it all together. Blow by blow:
1. Got the piston rings on without too much trouble. Using a feeler gauge to keep the second ring from falling into the first slot made it really nice.
2. Got the copper gasket spray all over the new gaskets
3. Got the pistons back on and installed the cylinder without trouble. The rings just kind of pushed into the cylinder.
OH but there was all sorts of sand under the old gasket. It was horrible. I'm not too thrilled about dropping some sand into the crankcase, but I'm hoping that I kept it clean enough. I poured some oil to wash it to the bottom and will change the oil about 5 minutes after starting the bike. That was pretty nasty.
4. Got the cylinder head on after struggling to get it over the rods for a while. It fits with the engine in. Tilt it so the front side is more down.
5. Finally figured out how to get the cams aligned and timed right.
6. BROKE A BOLT ON THE CAM BEARING CAP due to an oversized chinese torque wrench and not having a good feel for how tight they should be.
Actually I didn't overtorque them too much. I think they've overheated in the past or something. Damn things.
7. Took cylinder head back off. Ordered more parts. Taking it back in to machine shop later for bolt extraction. UHG!!
On the plus side, I had somehow lost one of those little slips that the bolts go through on the cam shaft bearing caps and had decided that it can't be that big of a deal and I'll order it but for now I want to see if the bike starts. Not sure if that would have been catastrophic or not but maybe breaking a bolt was a good idea.
Slightly worried about all the sand in the crank case. Will it get ground up? Or just go into my fresh cylinders and wreak havoc?
With the brand new head gasket off again, should I get a new one? Or can I just clean the copper spray off and re-coat it?
I knew it'd take longer and be more painful to do this job myself but I'm learning a lot and the bike isn't completely ruined, yet. By the way, the head recondition/new valve installation cost me $85 (not including parts), which I thought was a pretty good deal considering it looks like a completely brand new head.
sand wont get crushed up, if it gets in to the oil pump it will score any surface it touches.
I suggest you read this:
http://beergarage.com/GSSand.aspx
Hope that helps you somehow...
You absolutely have to get all that sand out of the crankcase or you'll be rebuilding the engine again very soon!!!!!!!!!!!!
i broke a bolt just like you did. i feel your pain. go have someone else extract it and save yourself the misery. good luck with the rebuild! :cheers:
So Beer Garage's idea of getting a huge syringe and spraying oil all over the place and then pulling off the oil pan and cleaning it is the best/easiest way to clear the sand? I REALLY don't want to take apart the crank case. What a pain.
How about turkey basting something more viscous down in there? Like transmission fluid. A dude at work recommended using simple green! I'm hesitating on that one due to the whole water-based thing...
Just flush the sand into the oil pan however you prefer, then drain the oil. Next, remove the oil pan from the bottom of the engine, and clean it thoroughly. That should solve the sand problem for you. The oil gets pumped from the oil pan directly through the filter, so as long as your filter isn't already clogged, running in bypass mode, the filter should catch any sand you might overlook. Still, I hope you'll drain and clean everything, and not rely on the filter to keep the sand from being pumped back up into the engine.
Keep this in mind; ATF is a high-detergent oil, so be careful if you use it. I sometimes use ATF to degrease parts with a lot of crud on them, like the chain on my nephew's dirtbike. If you use ATF to flush the sand out of the engine, drain it out right away; don't leave it sitting for a long time.
Let us know how this turns out...
Most of the sand is now in the oil pan as far as I can tell. A ketchup/mustard squeeze bottle with oil did the trick nicely. Plenty of pressure. Time to drain and clean and rebuild. Parts coming in monday.
I'm still wondering about my brand new cylinder and cylinder head gaskets. They're in good shape obviously. Can I just clean them up and put new copper spray on them and expect them to work fine? Or should I put fresh ones on?
Thanks. This time I won't mess up.
SUCCESS. Sort of. OK so I carefully assembled the engine, put new gaskets in, didn't break any bolts, etc. It didn't turn over for a while, but after I went to get a drinkn and hooked up jumper cables BAM it fired up and rev'd high, so I immediately killed it at like 7000 rpm. It sounded awesome with those new valves and clean pistons, but every time it started it rev'd up like that. I adjusted the idle knob below the carbs a whole lot, like all the way, and finally it maxed out at 5000-6000 rpm and kind of quivered around there for a while. I didn't leave it on more than a few seconds. Is this normal or expected? Should I continue with throttle adjustments or is something more complicated going on? Anyway, it sounds awesome and I can't wait to get back on it.