So....I'm running lean I think. Buddha, I need your input, and anyone else that has suggestions.
My GS is stock performance-wise. I installed jet kit from Buddha (#20 pilot, #130 main). Air filter is new and has only a few hundred miles on it, so it's not clogged. Spark plugs are equally new -- a few hundred miles.
Valves are loose.
When I start up cold, I have to play with the throttle a bit to get it to kick up, but it stays running right away. I didn't have to do that before the jet kit. Sometimes dies initially.
Compression is ~145 Left, ~135 right.
I finally got around to checking float levels at Buddha's suggestion.
Performance seems ok, but starting from a stop can be a little jerky -- you can crank it open and it will start a bit slow, not pulling against you with great force.
So should I get richer pilot? Shim the needle?
Left:
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/ramlax/gs/float-left-small.jpg)
Right:
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/ramlax/gs/float-right-small.jpg)
Left plug:
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/ramlax/gs/spark-left-small.jpg)
Right plug:
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/ramlax/gs/spark-right-small.jpg)
floats are both a bit high and i would just tweek the air fuel mixture 1/8 to 1/4 turn and see how she runs
Forgot to mention this is 4 to 5 turns out with the mixture screw. I don't want to screw them out much further.
bump
floats look high, what size pilot? u said 20, but that cant be right I cant really tell about the plugs.
stock replacement filter, or high flow? air restrictor in or out? factory exhaust?
I'm not really worried about floats -- high means it should be on the rich side, right? Will it cause any negative side effects?
Pilot is indeed #20. Stock is #17.5.
The color you see in the photos is pretty accurate. They're white, not washed out from camera flash.
Stock OEM air filter.
Stock exhaust.
ok, you have the 3 circuit carbs then, right? yes, high float will have it running rich
Yes, 2001 3 circuit carb.
Plugs look really lean to me, hence my post. With the stock air/fuel system and larger jets and floats not low and mixture screws out far, I would expect it to enrichen, but it seems to be as lean as can be.
Buddha said that was unusual and I'm wondering what I can do or whether I'm missing something.
Should I order larger jets from Buddha?
any washers on the needle??
Carbs synchronized?
They were synched relatively close last time I disassembled the carbs, however not after I replaced the jets.
No washers on the needle. Washers will only affect mid range and up, though.
I can sit there and idle for a while and the plugs won't show any darkening, so if I was to start somewhere, it would probably be the pilots. Hesitation is most prominent when accelerating from a stop.
you know no matter what size jet you put in if the passage is pluged your not goin to the proper fuel might wanna go through carbs and clean them you shouldnt need 4-5 turns with everything being stock.
Carbs were cleaned during the winter. I could clean them again, but I'd like to explore other options right now. I would kind of expect way worse behavior if they were plugged, too...
The exhaust does not appear modified. Is there anything the previous owner could have done to the exhaust? Anything I can check for that would indicate modification?
Anything else that could be leaning it out? The carb boots are in good shape and attached correctly.
check the ends of the can to see if they have been rewelded back on. i cut the end of my can off, then used a cutting torch, and cut all the baffles out. and welded it back together. most people wouldn't take the time to do that though
Jeremy_Nash: Compared to drilling the end, how does that sound with them all cut out?
Thanks,
Nick
Welding looks factory. I also shined a light inside the exhaust and I can see an undamaged baffle, so I'll assume the exhaust is completely stock.
derp
i really think theres something plugging your carb but with your high float height theres enough fuel getting by to keep it running at an idle. theres no reason you should be at 4-5 turns out unless your at 4-5 half turns but i would look at the end of your fuel air screw and see that it is completely there and part of it isnt broke off inside the carb. if you went up 2.3 on your pilot and your at 4-5 turns on the mixture you should be so rich you should foul plugs before you can put your helmet on and put the kickstand up.
Like I said, I cleaned the carbs during the winter first by soaking in a bucket of carb cleaner followed by boiling in slightly acidic water for some time. Then rinsed and dried out and reassembled. Sta-bil was in the fuel throughout the winter.
Parts are all good, best as I can tell, including the newer jets that were put in and the air screws.
Those are ~4 full turns.
wow your a pro i wouldnt look into the carbs ever again.
You boiled the carbs ? Whose idea was that ?
The O rings could be eaten, those guys actually react the worst to bleach. They can stand up to almost anything except bleach.
4 turns out - well try 1/2 or 1 more. If the O rings are not dead.
Cool.
Buddha.
Not bleach, a little lemon juice. And no orings were boiled. They were disassembled first and only the metal parts went in.
It's just something I read somewhere.
http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=boil+carbs (http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=boil+carbs)
joshr08, I'll clean the carbs again if it comes to that, but it's a multi-hour job and I'm lazy as hell. If I'm going to take them apart, I'm going to do it right and completely disassemble them. I would like to avoid that if I can.
Here's what I'll do: I'm going to adjust the float level so it's level with the edge of the bowl or so. That will test what joshr08 said about the floats being high enough to supply fuel even though jets are obstructed. It should run worse if I do this.
Thanks for all the suggestions. Buddha, I'll reset the mixture screws out to 5 turns while I'm at it.
Quote from: romulux on April 28, 2010, 06:31:35 PM
Forgot to mention this is 4 to 5 turns out with the mixture screw. I don't want to screw them out much further.
That's far too much. Standard is around 2 turns o_O
I spent a few hours today to do the following
- set floats right where they should be (top of float 14mm above edge of carb rim when inverted)
- added 2 washers to each needle from the jet kit from Buddha, since I hadn't done that
- pulled the brass jets to look at them -- they all look clean and let light through where they should.
- bowls are clean, no varnish or gas crud
I have not had a chance to see how it runs other than to let it warm up a little bit before it began to rain.
Rode around a bit today.
No change in behavior - a little choppy when starting from a stop. The plugs are dark when warming up with the choke on like you'd expect them to be.
Turn choke off and ride around, and they become very white.
So then I waited for it to cool down and I removed the air screws from the carbs.
The air screws' springs had white residue or corrosion on them and the washers were rusty. And I lost one of the o-rings getting them out, so now I have to order stuff anyway. I will get a cheapo air compressor with a blow gun so I can blow air through the passages, too.
In conclusion, I'm an idiot. I didn't want to believe the carbs were dirty because I didn't want to clean them.
I will
- order the parts I need
- clean the carbs + spray out with compressed air
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/ramlax/gs/air-screw-spring.jpg)
(http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/ramlax/gs/air-screw.jpg)
thank you for taking them down again.
Ok, so I cleaned them again and replaced the corroded pieces of the pilot screw & oring.
Really, no change in terms of leanness. Pilots are ~4 turns out. I let it idle for a while after riding around and checked the plugs. They're as white as can be.
If I screw the pilots in, the closer to in all the way, the worse it runs. RPMs lower and it sounds rough and will eventually stall if I turn them in far enough.
Turn them out, and it seems to run much more smoothly except for some misfiring at 2000rpm (usually for a minute or two after starting the bike, even when hot). It seems the further out the pilots, the less misfiring, but it isn't eliminated completely.
There is still hesitation from when first rolling on the throttle from a stop.
Even though I like to do all my work myself, I would almost take it to the shop at this point just to see if they can diagnose it, but cash is very tight and they're $85/hour.
:icon_sad:
The only other clue is that when I first start the bike with full choke, if I try to use the throttle at all, it wants to die and stays around 1500 rpm.
Then if you wait 10 or 20 seconds, you're able to use the throttle without it dying.
No more ideas from anyone?
clean your petcock. esp the gasket on the inside of the diagphram. Takes 15 mins.
make sure all the fuel hoses are routed down hill, consistent with being gravity fed. (also, not crimped anywhere, including breather hose)
make sure the vaccuum hoses are ran correctly.
Pull your dipstick to ensure the crank case doesnt have gas in it.
check the positioning on the choke and throttle cables as they are connected to the carb.
You can do all of this in about 30 mins, and it will rule a lot of stuff out, or point you in a more useful direction.
Also, open your gas tank at start up and see if that helps. Leave the lid open when you start it.
what the charge level on your battery?
good luck.
Quote from: OilSooner on May 13, 2010, 01:12:20 PM
clean your petcock. esp the gasket on the inside of the diagphram. Takes 15 mins.
make sure all the fuel hoses are routed down hill, consistent with being gravity fed. (also, not crimped anywhere, including breather hose)
make sure the vaccuum hoses are ran correctly.
Pull your dipstick to ensure the crank case doesnt have gas in it.
check the positioning on the choke and throttle cables as they are connected to the carb.
You can do all of this in about 30 mins, and it will rule a lot of stuff out, or point you in a more useful direction.
Also, open your gas tank at start up and see if that helps. Leave the lid open when you start it.
what the charge level on your battery?
good luck.
Thanks for the ideas.
The petcock is from an '04 that I've ground the tab off of to use gravity feed to bypass the diaphragm and it's clean.
Vacuum hoses should be correct and given that the symptoms have not changed over several disassembly and reassembly, I have to assume they're where they should be. The other options is that I could be reassembling it consistently wrong.
I check oil frequently. It's at the full mark and doesn't smell of gas. I'm curious why you suggested this -- how could gas get in the crankcase aside from past the piston rings?
Choke and throttle cable action is smooth. I just assembled it on the weekend, so I know they're tight and OK.
Next time it's cold, I will try with the gas tank open -- that's one I haven't tried.
I use a battery tender, so the battery should be good. I've never had trouble with it, but I haven't really done any diagnostics on it (due to lack of problems with it). It's the one that was on the bike when I bought it, so I don't know its history. Fluid levels are good on it.