im debating whether or not to get the system. i found it on sale just now for what looks like a good price. i remember reading that i'll have to lose my center stand. i use the center stand every time i work on my bike and the convenience of having it is unparalleled. but, i feel like i need a bit more power and sound (louder = safer as far as i can tell when travelling the 91 freeway in socal, and the power would help too)
i wanted to get opinions on exhaust set-ups from people still active on the forum.
also, anyone have experience with motorcycle lifts? any pictures showing how to use the lift with our bikes?
I have my center stand still - will remove shortly though.
Sound is pretty loud actually which I like.
Remember you will HAVE to rejet your carbs as well.
With rejet/exhaust you may as well get a lunchbox too. The combo of the three is noticeable compared to stock. I say get the lunchbox cause if you ever get it later you will need to rejet again!
Jon
yeah i've read plenty on rejetting and i know what's needed. just gotta commit to some form of action...
so the center stand needs to be removed? or just cant be put down because the exhaust is in the way? if the centerstand can stay, i wouldnt mind just taking the system off when doing maintenance..
I have the V & H and STILL have the centerstand. I don't see where the problem would be if you installed it. However, my pipes are different so that when I do change the oil, I have to take them down completely. Hope this helps.
you definitely can use the V&H with the center stand, I do it all the time. if you have the newer model with an oil cooler you will have to remove the exhaust to change the oil filter. I have to do that all the time too :icon_rolleyes:
If I was to do it again I would get the jardine system. its stainless steel and doesn't have to be removed to change the oil filter.
Quote from: black and silver twin on May 07, 2010, 11:22:08 AM
you definitely can use the V&H with the center stand, I do it all the time. if you have the newer model with an oil cooler you will have to remove the exhaust to change the oil filter. I have to do that all the time too :icon_rolleyes:
If I was to do it again I would get the jardine system. its stainless steel and doesn't have to be removed to change the oil filter.
so the full vance and hines supersport system does NOT need the center stand removed, and the center stand is still fully functional with the exhaust system on?
and the jardin full exhaust system is the same way?
Quote from: pandymai on May 07, 2010, 11:25:11 AM
Quote from: black and silver twin on May 07, 2010, 11:22:08 AM
you definitely can use the V&H with the center stand, I do it all the time. if you have the newer model with an oil cooler you will have to remove the exhaust to change the oil filter. I have to do that all the time too :icon_rolleyes:
If I was to do it again I would get the jardine system. its stainless steel and doesn't have to be removed to change the oil filter.
so the full vance and hines supersport system does NOT need the center stand removed, and the center stand is still fully functional with the exhaust system on?
and the jardin full exhaust system is the same way?
correct and correct, the V&H does require the entire system to be dropped to change the oil filter though, and its painted mild steel so it will rust in 2 years or so if you dont keep fresh paint on it.
so the difference between the jardin and VH is: 1) stainless vs painted finish, 2) not removed vs removed for oil filter, and 3) VH has equal length headers. the price differences are also there.. but the jardin is seemingly worth the extra coin?
i have a 1989 gs500ek. i've since heard the jardine can also fit my model, even though it's marketed for the Fmodels of 04 to present? if so, does anyone have any opinions on jet sizes i should get to? 40 pilots with 150 mains are recommended for the full V&H system with lunchbox filter. would the same apply to the full Jardine set-up?
My V & H is OE from back in the day they came out. It has never shown a sign of rust and the black is still dark.
I have the V&H on mine. It's super loud. I used to hate it, but I've gotten used to it. I still wish it was quieter, but I don't hate it like I used to. I just try to keep the rpms as low as possible when I'm around densely populated areas. I also take off from redlights much slower than I'd care to because I hate that mental problem car drivers have where they think you're always trying to race them, so I take off nicely and shift low, and usually old people beat me off of every redlight.
I have a 1991 and I never take the exhaust off to change my oil. A little bit runs on the pipe when I remove the drain plug, but who cares. It'll come off eventually. If you really wanted you could just cut a small pop bottle in half or something to catch the oil from landing on your exhaust, but it's never been a concern to me. I spray a little high temp paint on my every so often, then when it dries I rub it down with a towel to give it a bit of a gloss. It's held up fine.
I think the size of the V&H is a little small, so that's one thing I think a Jardine might have on it, is the general appearance. Someday I'm gonna angle mine up more, and I don't think it'll bug me anymore.
I don't remember what Jets I have. I want to say it's a 135 and 40, but I could be wrong. I have the lunchbox on mine as well. Over all it's not bad, but seriously it's loud, so when you say you'd like a loud pipe, I hope you're being serious. If you ride fast you can expect some tickets, because it sounds like you're going fast even when you're not, and I rarely take mine over 5k rpm anymore just because of that.
Ooh, and center stand hasn't been an issue for me either. I just pulled mine off last weekend just because I didn't need it on there. If I need it for maintenance I'll just slide the bolts in and lift it up without the spring and it'll work fine that way. I did have to zip tie some short pieces of rubber onto the back of mine to keep it from hitting the exhaust, but I'm pretty sure that's because I was missing some kind of rubber stopper that most have, but the rubber I stuck on there worked perfectly fine, and I don't think that's a normal issue.
anyone have personal experience with jardine vs VH with regard to the sound level? now that i know i can keep the center stand i have no real inhibitions about getting a new exhaust.. :D
and im thinkin lunchbox filter with 40/150's like the wiki says. this just might be a very expensive weekend. xD
so, just to make sure... the jardine full system will fit my 89 correct? even though it's marketed to the 04+ F models?
I don't see why not, the only difference between the years is that the newer ones have the fairing and the oil cooler, so there's absolutely no reason an exhaust wouldn't fit on the bike without those things. If anything you might not be able to fit an exhaust made for the old version onto a faired version, because the cooler or fairing could be in the way, but aside from that, the frame and engine are the same between the years.
Let someone else tell you for sure, but I'm 98% sure on that one.
Quote from: pandymai on May 07, 2010, 05:20:17 PM
so, just to make sure... the jardine full system will fit my 89 correct? even though it's marketed to the 04+ F models?
Yes it will work.
alrighty so... due to a $50+ discrepancy, i'll be going with the vance&hines system and not the jardine.
current set-up: stock fork oil with progressive springs, rear kat shock.
very near future set-up: vance&hines full exhaust, lunchbox k&n, 40/150 jets, 15w fork oil with progressive springs with 1/2inch spacer
also going to do the valve clearances and oil change.
too bad it's all going to have to wait until next saturday. but it's definitely going to happen.. weeeeeee :cheers:
Quote from: pandymai on May 08, 2010, 09:10:27 AM
alrighty so... due to a $50+ discrepancy, i'll be going with the vance&hines system and not the jardine.
current set-up: stock fork oil with progressive springs, rear kat shock.
very near future set-up: vance&hines full exhaust, lunchbox k&n, 40/150 jets, 15w fork oil with progressive springs with 1/2inch spacer
also going to do the valve clearances and oil change.
too bad it's all going to have to wait until next saturday. but it's definitely going to happen.. weeeeeee :cheers:
use anti-sieze compound on the header bolts. put a diaper on the exhaust when changing the oil. don't need to remove it, just drop the header bolts. anti-sieze. anti-sieze. ;-)
Quote from: ohgood on May 08, 2010, 10:01:25 AM
use anti-sieze compound on the header bolts. put a diaper on the exhaust when changing the oil. don't need to remove it, just drop the header bolts. anti-sieze. anti-sieze. ;-)
duly noted. thanks!
Quote from: pandymai on May 08, 2010, 09:10:27 AM
alrighty so... due to a $50+ discrepancy, i'll be going with the vance&hines system and not the jardine.
For the sake of saving $50 you are going to be kicking yourself in the ass for buying a mild steel exhaust system that will look like it came off the Titanic if you ride in the rain at all in the next two years.
Spend the extra $50 and get the stainless steel Jardine system.
wait, where are you putting a diaper?? I'm completely lost on that one.
Anyway, for $50 I'd consider the jardine too, but my V&H is still in much better condition after 10 years than people on here are saying yours will be in 2 months, so I wouldn't worry about that as much. Does the Jardine have an actually strap around the can where it bolts to the passenger peg mount, or does it back that weird thing on the back of it too?? I hate that piece welded on the back of my exhaust. Someday I'm going to grind it off and make a normal strap.
im in southern california where the weather tends to be pretty dry so im not too worried about the rain and whatnots. granted, i have had to ride in the rain before, but i dont leave it out for too long. i was thinking of lightly sanding and spraying a layer of the grill coating on the pipes right out of the box too, just in case.
the 50 dollars would also put me over the amount i actually have to spend, so that's why the VH seems to be a suitable choice. another 50 for exhaust would leave me without money for the lunchbox filter. and that'd be no fun xD haha
Just spray like 15 coats of paint on it. Make the rain work for it.
Quote from: tt_four on May 10, 2010, 05:06:38 AM
Just spray like 15 coats of paint on it. Make the rain work for it.
that's pretty much the plan. lightly sand the pipe right out of the box and spray a layer. heatgun it then spray another layer. probly unload the whole can just for kicks
After I installed my battery I noticed a couple days later that a little battery acid had dripped on it and ate through the paint a bit. I just wire brushed it clean and sprayed it with normal black spray paint, and it hasn't even given me a hard time.
Rain + steel = rust
Maybe you got a real good V&H though :dunno_black:
The V&H is an older design - I bet the Jardine has a strap.
The jardine does have a strap
It's not just the rain that rusts mild steel exhausts too...it's condensed water and corrosive gasses from the inside. The low spots are also where the welds are, which adds to the galvanic mix, and if you do short trips and ride in rain and and and...
When i buy an exhaust for my project, its going to be the stainless Jardine. Sounds better than the Vance and Crimes too (bigger can = lower tones).
Paint???.... oh behave!.... rub the surface rust off and cover the pipe in black grate polish. Same result for a fraction of the effort and cost, touch it up in seconds as and when required.
i am grateful for everyone's opinions.
this is basically the issue. i have a set amount of money that i am allowing myself to spend considering any money spent on UPGRADES are not actually a complete necessity since my bike runs better than most other gs5's i've come to contact with.
the jardine, with its pros, would be great, but overshoots the monetary limit i set upon myself arbitrarily.
my reasons for (possibly) picking the vance&hines would be (in no particular order):
PROS:
1. black finish on the piping matches my black motor :D
2. brand new, after taxes, it's about 60 dollars cheaper than the jardine (the 60 dollars go on to cover the full cost of new airfilter, jets, and high-heat coating)
3. i live in sunny southern california and ride daily, then park it with a cover. (may be foolish but i dont believe rust will be that big an issue with the environmental conditions at hand.)
4. i WILL be using the grill or grate paint, whichever the high heat black paint is to coat the pipes. and maybe even coat inside of the pipes too haha
CONS:
1. drop down pipes for oil filter
2. chances of rust (though low)
Jardine
Pros:
1. aesthetics- the can is bigger and looks to fit the bike's frame better
2. sound- (not verified but logical) with the larger can, the "lower tones" would definitely be more desirable than a high pitched buzz
3. stainless steel- no risk of rust?
4. no need to move it when changing the oil filter
Cons:
1. stainless steel doesnt match the rest of my bike :cookoo:
2. PRICE
i guess, in all honesty, im still debating. i KNOW i wont be able to clean up my frame any time soon and my bike just isnt shiny. i feel like putting the jardine system, shiny and new, on my bike would look like putting 20inch chromes on a rusted out jalopy =P that's just not my style
im gonna give it another few nights before i finally purchase
browse some of the videos on youtube while you're at it. To be honest I barely even hear a difference. My V&H definitely sounds a lot deeper/louder than what's in all the videos, so obviously the sound is muffled a bit in all of them, but if the V&H videos sound just like the Jardine videos, I assume they'd sound the same in person too. I'll admit the Jardine is much prettier though.
You will probably find that most of the power to be gained will be from the lunchbox and/or rejetting, rather than the exhaust. If you are really on a budget why not start with that first ?
Quote from: SAFE-T on May 10, 2010, 08:06:30 PM
You will probably find that most of the power to be gained will be from the lunchbox and/or rejetting, rather than the exhaust. If you are really on a budget why not start with that first ?
the sound, and not the power is actually my main focus. like i originally said, the 91freeway in southern california is unforgiving to drivers of any vehicle, especially during traffic hours. it's even worse on my motorcycle though because no one sees me. i have an HID headlight and even at night people still dont see me. this upgrade is primarily for the sound of the bike to increase a bit to get people to look twice when they hear the buzz of a bike come up.
i will be doing everything at once though to avoid having to buy more jets and rejet again and again. my budget is based on priorities. i've been thousands in debt and have been pretty good about dropping that amount down quickly, at the cost of not doing anything for myself. recently i came up on some cash, and thought maybe i could do something for fun for myself since i'm still covering as much of my debt as i've been for the past few months. i just wanna get the most bang for my buck
i'm dealing with a few local shops right now and if i can heckle myself a good deal i will probly go with the jardine (for the sake of easy oil changes) but that's if i get, lets say, to within 20 dollars of the price for the V&H. bikebandit has the V&H system shipped for a bit over 300. and the cheapest i've found the jardine for (list price) is about 370ish.
just gotta keep shoppin i guess
so im gonna get the jardine and k&N lunchbox filter from a local warehouse place for only about 25 dollars more than if i ordered the V&H and lunchbox from bike bandit.
i'll take before and after pictures of my bike the day i start working on it! =]
:thumb:
I personally like to hold onto stock parts, especially if you want to sell the bike later on down the line, but just a side note in case you hadn't thought of it, you can sell the stock exhaust and make back some of that money so you're not going over your budget.
Here's my thoughts on the Vance and Hines. i am riding the GS regularly with a VH in preparation for willing the bike to a novice rider.
PROS:
Noticeable performance improvement when coupled with a jet job (thanks Buddha) and K&N filter in the stock airbox.
CON:
The exhaust up to the head bolts will rust while looking at it especially if you live in an area like i do and rain is a reality. I bought mine new in 2007 and have fought rust from installation
The exhaust is loud but really not as loud as it seems (this from a BMW and Goldwing owner). If you keep the revs between 2-3K the exhaust is tolerable in city use.
The muffler can be loud, like HD loud pipe loud, (I sometimes feel like Che Guevara riding the Norton Atlas in SA when out on mine) .
So, either buy the Jardin, accept the rust, and/or go to Summit Racing and wrap the pipes with race wrap so you don't have to look at it. I have other bikes and the race wrap is not a bad addition because it increases the scavenge of the exhaust (no BS my CB 1000 really spools up faster) and looks cool.
Joe
yeah no one even thought to mention wrapping them. I think that take is like $25 a roll though, and you'd need at least 2.
2-3k is respectably quiet, that's where I try to keep it when I'm around people. When my bike hits 4k it feels like a turbo kicked in and the bike instantly takes off, and along with that comes that noise. It's kinda hard to ride a bike with only 45 hp at 3k rpm all the time though.
Quote from: tt_four on May 11, 2010, 03:35:02 PM
I personally like to hold onto stock parts, especially if you want to sell the bike later on down the line, but just a side note in case you hadn't thought of it, you can sell the stock exhaust and make back some of that money so you're not going over your budget.
every part i've taken off my bike is still stored. im a stickler about such things as well. i have the stock springs and spaces stored, stock rear shock, one-piece headlight bulb, even the tubes i took off and replaced for my clip-ons. i figure, it worked fine before i took it all off, it can definitely work fine for someone eventually.
now im just playing the waiting game, hoping the parts come sooner, not later haha.
in no particular order:
current set-up
- progressive springs in front, no spacers, stock fork oil.
- kat rear shock
"will do" list:
- drop forks, replace fork seals, put back together with 15w fork oil and 3/4inch spacers on the same progressive springs
- drop exhaust, install Jardine RT-1 system
- replace stripped studs for oil filter cap, with oil and filter change
- valve adjustment with new valve cover gasket
- clean/rebuild/rejet carbs
- install K&N lunchbox filter
- DIY timing advance
not sure what else i may do.. i might switch all my lines to the clear 1/4inch tubing that i've seen in another thread, and throw on an inline filter. might do the petcock rotation mod too.
im really excited! parts are taking a bit longer than i'd like, but that lets me prepare for everything so i can do it all at once. also gives me time to find a decent camera so i can take pictures/videos of the before and after. i hope everything works out.
come to think of it, i dont know where i put the fork seals and havent bought the new fork oil yet.. uh oh.
quick question: how many people have stripped the studs and found it easier just to pull those studs out and use bolts instead? im thinking if the studs dont come in by tomorrow, i'll just get some allen-head bolts and replace all 3 studs. what size bolts should i be lookin to get?
decided i'll wait on the studs. so hopefully they'll come in soon.
and im still gonna have to look for my fork seals..
but, i DID get most of my parts in!
received:
- jardine RT-1 full exhaust system
- K&N lunchbox air filter
- 40 pilot jets/150 mains
- carb rebuild kit
- K&N oil filter
- 10w50 synthetic oil (testing it out. it was on super sale and was highly recommended. also havent found any negatives to using 10w50 instead of 40. feel free to give input)
need to get:
- valve cover gasket
- filter cap studs
- oil plug crusher washer
- shims (awaiting valve clearance check and the dealership on these first 4 things)
- 15w fork oil
need to find:
- those leakproof brand fork seals i bought a while back.. -___-
(dont you love when your family says things like "you'll always have a place at home" but when you get there all your shizzle is gone?)
and i've found a friend who wants to record everything i do on the bike so he can practice his video editing. so maybe i'll have a video to put up within the next few weeks of my bike before and after.
i'll also try to get pictures of step by step that might help some people? especially on the fork seal replacement as im still not sure but will follow the write-up to the best of my ability.
That exhaust system came fast. Is your valve cover gasket leaking? I never replace mine. It's pretty thick rubber so I never have any problems with it sealing.
Quote from: tt_four on May 12, 2010, 06:22:02 PM
That exhaust system came fast. Is your valve cover gasket leaking? I never replace mine. It's pretty thick rubber so I never have any problems with it sealing.
no it's not leaking. so maybe i wont buy that, just to cut back on some moneeyyysss. question though, do you use gasket silicone as well or do you keep everything clean and just torque down the valve cover and everything's ok?
I have silicone sealant, but I can't remember if I put it in or not. I think I might have on one side. I think I did on my last bike as well. Usually that biggest benefit of that stuff is just to hold your gasket in place while you're putting covers back on.
so just to make sure.. when adjusting the idle mix screws, let's say your looking directly at them from the bottom of the carbs. turning them clockwise pushes them further into the carb, and counter clockwise lets them back out of the carb. so, when adjusting, they should be turned clockwise until they stop, then adjusted by turning counterclockwise until the bike runs well.. correct?
last time i adjusted carbs i still couldnt get them running just right.. just wanna make sure im startin round two with the right directions haha
Correct. All the way in, then back out 2.5-3.0 turns and you should be ok. do it before you put them on the bike, unless you have a really really short screwdriver.
thanks! turns out i dont have to work tomorrow. so i'll have ALLL DAAAYYY to work on my bike. im so excited. ahaha
what was planned to happen:
rejet
air filter
fork seals
filter cap stud replacement
oil change
timing advance
exhaust install
valve clearances
what actually happened:
valve clearances
rejet
air filter
oil change
BROKEN EXHAUST HEADER BOLTS. that's right. boltS. the bottom bolt on both headers broke off pretty much right at the head. trying to figure out how to drill/tap/extract it now. spent the past few hours just trying to work at it. i feel quite FCKED. an extremely disheartening experience at this point since most everything else was going quite smoothly. got the stripped studs off for the filter cap and cleaned out/rejet the carbs. then i got stuck with the header bolts breaking. when that happened i made sure to find some bolts that would work (same length,pitch) and was lucky enough to find some in the bolt bin here at the shop. but then when i tried drilling into the stud, a drill bit even broke off a little in the hole of one stud and the other wasnt gettin anywhere either. -__-
im going out to find the strongest drill bits i can to drill out the studs and ez-out it tomorrow.. once i find a bicycle or something to borrow..
if that doesnt work i just might try to jb weld a tab to the stud and maybe just unscrew it? im not even sure -____-
maybe i'll be thinkin a bit more clearly again tomorrow when im not so tired/hungry/angry. i know things like this happen, especially since my bike is 21 years old, but i was so hopeful it wouldnt. too bad i guess..
anyone else have any ideas?
Broken bolts are the worst. Get a helicoil kit and you'll be as good as new.
If a bolt is stuck fast enough to shear its head off an easy-out wont free it, nor will you be able to drill the center of the bolt out without it wandering into the softer metal of the head particularly as there is now a remanent in there. Go at this blind and you will f*** the head up completely. Plenty of people in here have tried to do this and plenty have failed.
Take the head of and take it to an engine reconditioning shop, get them to machine out the broken parts and fit helicoils and instead of using those sh***y cap-head bolts that will sieze again get them to supply and fit chrome plated studs and nuts.
Quote from: sledge on May 16, 2010, 02:14:11 AM
If a bolt is stuck fast enough to shear its head off an easy-out wont free it, nor will you be able to drill the center of the bolt out without it wandering into the softer metal of the head particularly as there is now a remanent in there. Go at this blind and you will f*** the head up completely. Plenty of people in here have tried to do this and plenty have failed.
Take the head of and take it to an engine reconditioning shop, get them to machine out the broken parts and fit helicoils and instead of using those sh***y cap-head bolts that will sieze again get them to supply and fit chrome plated studs and nuts.
so basically, they'll be doing the same thing i'll be doing? if i can get the broken bolts out, than lucky me. if not, i was going to drill it out and re-tap an oversized threading. i was just going to go oversized if necessary, but helicoil and a stud sounds like a good plan too.
i just hope i dont eff this up. i'll be doing it myself and running with the consequences. lets just hope i dont go too far beyond help.
Haha, I'm with you there. I'd so much rather try and fail than pay some sucker to do it right the first time. If I eventaully have to pay someone to fix it, or buy a new head at least I'll know it was necessary.
Quote from: tt_four on May 17, 2010, 11:17:26 AM
Haha, I'm with you there. I'd so much rather try and fail than pay some sucker to do it right the first time. If I eventaully have to pay someone to fix it, or buy a new head at least I'll know it was necessary.
your support is very, very much appreciated. been so frustrated i almost jumped on buying another gs500 (saw some decent deals on craigslist) just so i could swap everything i have onto it and have a newer bike in the process. but realized i should probly just keep at it a bit more.
i dont think i'll get to working on the bike today because the lakers will be on by the time i get out of work :D but i'll be sure to get to it tomorrow since i might work a half day.
yup. it's time to consult professionals.
I have pulled them out by drilling and eventually tapped them to a slightly different size (heli coils are OK but I didn't want to chance it).
I rate this as the hardest job I have ever done on a bike, and I have fit an 04 fairing on an 89 without welding all the brackets on ... I put threaded inserts ...
Anyway, I got the bike strapped form the ceiling, removed the FE and got under there and drilled and drilled and drilled. They didn't go easily, and when it begins to drift, you need to catch it soon and compensate ... but once it went to the center and got to the bottom ... I was able to easy out it. Took me forever, I'd say 4-5 hours. Plenty of lube and light ... honestly with a small enough drill if you get it through to 1/2 the way, you can chase with a larger and larger bit and get to the bottom. May be even better with a high quality left handed drill. You may get it unscrew out as you bite into it.
Cool.
Buddha.
im thinking of taking the head off to continue to drill into it, as it's getting to be a pain having to make sure the bike doesnt get jolted around. what's the easiest way to take off only the head? is dropping the motor out necessary?
i was thinking: take off breather cap > take off valve cover gasket > take off cams > unbolt the 4 large bolts > the single bolt in the front > lift the head out. will there be enough clearance? do i have to drop the whole motor out?
Supposedly there is enough room to remove it with the engine still in the bike, however I've read that and not actually tested it.
Quote from: The Buddha on May 18, 2010, 02:24:50 PM
Took me forever, I'd say 4-5 hours. Plenty of lube
Well that's your problem. You've gotta focus!
Removing the head in the engine might be doable, I'm not sure if it would hit that frame crossbrace before you could get it off of the studs. You would probably have an easier time if you pulled the studs out first. The most difficult part would probably be getting the pistons back in the cylinders while it's all still in the bike. That makes me feel like pulling it out would just make the whole thing easier.
from what i can tell, the head can be separated from cylinders, so there shouldnt be an issue with the pistons at all? i say so because the bike bandit schematics show that there's a gasket between the cylinder head and the cylinder case..
and i guess i will just keep trying to focus and drill drill drill. cobalt drills are probably the hardest bits i can get a hold of without having to special order online.. so i guess i'll be going for those. but i definitely feel like i could better focus without having to worry about the rest of the bike.
i just turned that super deal i got on my exhaust into the most costly endeavor -___-
so now i have to deal with a broken drill bit in one hole, and a broken extractor in the other. it seems i've royally fcked myself. but maybe i'll be lucky enough to salvage what's left.
and if not.. well.. i dont even know right now. so far it's just gone from bad to worse.
Quote from: pandymai on May 18, 2010, 02:17:25 PM
yup. it's time to consult professionals.
A pro shop will use totaly different equipement and methods to remove the remenants than what you have tried and if you are lucky and find a good shop they might be able to save the head and carry out a repair with a guarantee. Not gonna preach or laugh and say you should have done what I said at the start, people need to learn and gain experience but sometimes they choose the hard way to go about it
Next time someone else comes in here with broken header bolts, and it wont be long, and the usual use an easy-out, LH-drill, fit helicoils etc replies flood in you can tell people just how difficult this problem is to overcome based on your own first hand experience in the same way I did back at the start........... Saying it is one thing, doing it is something else.
Quote from: pandymai on May 18, 2010, 10:48:12 PM
from what i can tell, the head can be separated from cylinders, so there shouldnt be an issue with the pistons at all?
You're right, I completely blanked on that one. The last engine project I worked on was uprgading my wife's moped motor from 50cc to 70cc. It doesn't have a valve cover, it's just the cylinder and the head, and without valves to need an additional cover the exhaust and intake bolt right up to the cylinder, so I forgot the GS has a 3rd part in it's top end.
so it turns out i dont think just the head can be removed without lowering the engine, as there isnt enough clearance to pull the head up and out. my cousin is startin to be unhappy with how much space im taking up haha :dunno_black:
now i need to find a jack to support the motor while i undo the motor mounts and whatnots.. this sure has gotten pricey
Quote from: pandymai on May 20, 2010, 03:00:21 PM
this sure has gotten pricey
And just think, these bikes aren't even expensive to begin with, lol. Oh and lets see some pics or it never happened.
honestly, at this point, pictures would be too painful to post. just lookin at it hurts right now haha
You CAN lift the head with the engine in the frame, its tight but do-able, follow the procedure in Haynes.
i forget if there's a link to the haynes online? i have a clymer manual but havent had the chance to look through it again. >__<
or if anyone would be so kind as to send me that information. it would be greatly appreciated.
Assuming you havent started tearing it down take a turn off each of the 8 nuts that hold the head on and the bolt at the front of the head between the exhaust ports, then lift both plug caps and give it a blip on the starter. You will find the head will free itself from the block as a result of cylinder compression and you wont have to struggle hammering or levering it off :thumb:
im having an issue getting it out of the frame, not off the cylinder case. any ideas how to shimmy that thing out? i can't get it to clear the front of the frame where it comes together at the neck.
edit: i tried to drop the front, bottom, and rear top mounting bolts, but that didnt drop it low enough. maybe i'll try to drop the rear bottom instead and see if that lets it lower just a bit. i can get it to clear the studs on the intake side, but not the exhaust side.
it's only taken a few weeks/months... xD hahaha
finally got my head taken care of and ready to re-install. i've decided im going to put studs in and use "exhaust manifold nuts" from hillco instead of using the exhaust header bolts..
now i just need to clean everything up real well and get a new cylinder head gasket to slap everything back together.
an issue though.. my cam chain tensioner's bolts are stripped so removing it will be difficult. should i just pop the cap off the tensioner and wind it out instead of trying to take it off completely?
so... i've gotten my bike to run! hah! only took 2 months... ish.. hahahha
edit: just kidding it'so nly been about a month. but still. that's a long time to be out or a primary vehicle
i will definitely post a picture/soundclip or something soon. but yeah. it sounds AWESOME and responded well to throttle.
only issue now is... gas seemed to be spitting back out of my right carb. im not 100% sure, but when i looked under, my lunchbox filter was turned white where it seemd to have gotten wet and some gas was dripping off. not sure if it's from inside the carb or from a line that just happened to be leaking towards that one area.
anyways after work tonight i'll be back at it to finish up so i can ride this weekend. and get a video up of the bike running! =D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7hg_hZ2Ruw
there's the video i promised to have. one is better than none! haha
sound's a little off, the lighting is off.. if anything i'll record in HD tomorrow or something =P