I just bought a '92 GS500E from a friend to resurrect for fun that I got real cheap. It's super dirty, and needs some work. The carbs and starter have been rebuilt. I slapped those on first, put some gas in the tank and tried to fire it up to see if it would catch. No luck.
I got new NGK sparkplugs, but the old champions didn't look that bad. I took the carbs back off, and went through them to make sure the jets were clean and they were. Put everything back together still wouldn't start. Spark was good, compression was there, so I start checking fuel lines. They were clean. :dunno_black:
I spray a shot of carb cleaner in the intakes, and it fires right up and dies. So I know it has to be fuel somehow. I empty the tank and find the culprit. I had looked in the tank, but didn't see it. There was some water in the bottom that had accumulated there from sitting outside for a couple months... I dry out the tank, the carbs, and put new gas in. Still not firing, and I try the carb cleaner again. It fires right up and stays running (no choke, I need to replace the cable, it rusted through in a spot). I let the engine get warm, set the idle screw to about 1200-1300RPM. I kill the engine, and wait a few minutes to try a restart. It fires right back up, no choke. Sounds great. :icon_mrgreen:
The next day I try to start it and it won't fire (with choke on or off). :confused: Any suggestions on where to go from here???
FYI: It has K&N filter and Vance & Hines exhaust. I'm not sure if the jets are stock or not.
(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs546.snc3/29890_444959173503_502628503_5838583_3266163_n.jpg)
If your choke is out of order like you said, it's not easy to start a GS on a cold day.
The first time you got it started you used carb cleaner to get it running.
You can manually choke it by putting a piece of cloth in the airfilter.
Good luck!
I tied the clutch handle in so I could start it one handed. I used my other hand to push in the choke on the carbs and it still wouldn't start. Also, the temperature here lately has been in the high 80's. Technically a cold start none the less, but not bad.
When you cleaned the carbs did you drill out the covers on the fuel screws and pull them out and clean them and the idle circuits?? If you didn't that's likely the cause.
Quote from: RichDesmond on May 11, 2010, 04:30:15 PM
When you cleaned the carbs did you drill out the covers on the fuel screws and pull them out and clean them and the idle circuits?? If you didn't that's likely the cause.
I'll look into that. Once you drill out the covers on the fuel screws, do you need to replace them or will they be fine without the covers?
fine without covers. once its out, you wont be able to get them back in, and they are not needed anyway.
EDIT: when you take them out, count how many turns they are in first. You must put them in the exact same way, unless you know how to turn them in and out to change your mixture.
Quote from: OilSooner on May 12, 2010, 10:30:45 AM
fine without covers. once its out, you wont be able to get them back in, and they are not needed anyway.
EDIT: when you take them out, count how many turns they are in first. You must put them in the exact same way, unless you know how to turn them in and out to change your mixture.
How many turns should they be in if they were still stock. Thinking back at when I first looked at it, I believe the covers have already removed. When I check them again I want to make sure they were put back properly.
What's the best way to clean out the idle circuit?
Quote from: scroggins5000 on May 12, 2010, 08:35:58 AM
Quote from: RichDesmond on May 11, 2010, 04:30:15 PM
When you cleaned the carbs did you drill out the covers on the fuel screws and pull them out and clean them and the idle circuits?? If you didn't that's likely the cause.
I'll look into that. Once you drill out the covers on the fuel screws, do you need to replace them or will they be fine without the covers?
Fine without. Those plugs are EPA-mandated to keep you from futzing with the jetting. Since you haven't cleaned them yet I'd bet that's the problem. Just be careful when you take the screws out, there will be a spring, an o-ring and a tiny washer in there too. Don't lose anything, and get them back in the right order.
Blast a bunch of carb cleaner through the hole you took the screw out of, and then blow it out with compressed air.
This is an excellent thread from the SV board on carbs and carb cleaning.
http://forum.svrider.com/showthread.php?t=85580
The SV carbs are slightly different from the ones on the GS, but they are similar enough that most of it applies.
Quote from: RichDesmond on May 12, 2010, 11:43:12 AM
Quote from: scroggins5000 on May 12, 2010, 08:35:58 AM
Quote from: RichDesmond on May 11, 2010, 04:30:15 PM
When you cleaned the carbs did you drill out the covers on the fuel screws and pull them out and clean them and the idle circuits?? If you didn't that's likely the cause.
I'll look into that. Once you drill out the covers on the fuel screws, do you need to replace them or will they be fine without the covers?
Fine without. Those plugs are EPA-mandated to keep you from futzing with the jetting. Since you haven't cleaned them yet I'd bet that's the problem. Just be careful when you take the screws out, there will be a spring, an o-ring and a tiny washer in there too. Don't lose anything, and get them back in the right order.
Blast a bunch of carb cleaner through the hole you took the screw out of, and then blow it out with compressed air.
Cool. I actually remember that the plugs are already off. I will go through these tonight, and see if it helps.
Quote from: RichDesmond on May 12, 2010, 11:48:23 AM
This is an excellent thread from the SV board on carbs and carb cleaning.
http://forum.svrider.com/showthread.php?t=85580
The SV carbs are slightly different from the ones on the GS, but they are similar enough that most of it applies.
Thanks for the link. Here is another one I just found that has a lot of good info about breaking down and cleaning a set of Mikuni BST36SS on the GSX that is extremely similar to the BST33SS on the GS500E. I thought I should share.
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159718 (http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159718)
I also found this link regarding a simple how to on re-jetting. At the end it has instructions on how to correctly set the pilot air screws.
http://www.angelfire.com/mt2/mikesgs500/rejetting/ (http://www.angelfire.com/mt2/mikesgs500/rejetting/)
Lots of helpful pictures too!
More questions... I'm assuming the jets in the carbs might still be stock, but I'm not sure. How can I check this? According to what I've read at the below link I would need #150 mains, because it has V&H exhaust and the K&N filter that's on it.
http://www.angelfire.com/mt2/mikesgs500/rejetting/Rejetting_Matrix.html (http://www.angelfire.com/mt2/mikesgs500/rejetting/Rejetting_Matrix.html)
the jets are stamped with numbers. once you pull them out you should be able to see them. mains have it stamped on the head, the pilots should have it right under the threading
Hmm...
My GS has been giving me great joy but at times will be loath to start. I never did pop out the idle jets when I cleaned the carbs after sitting with gas for four years... perhaps this is my issue as well. The only problems I have with the bike are unpredictable idling (sometimes 1500, sometimes lower... sometimes changes if I lean the bike over at a stop!)
I have been meaning to look at my choke configuration and if I'm going that far, maybe drilling out the idle jet covers and giving them a good once over is the way to go!
Peace,
Syzygy
I took the carbs off, and checked them thoroughly. Sprayed carb cleaner through every opening, and no clogs whatsoever. Everything is really clean.
I found a small o-ring missing in the top portion of one of the carbs (#26). It has been discontinued, so I think I'm going to try my luck matching it at the hardware store. Anybody have an extra lying around?? :)
The washers on the needles are set at the 2nd notch from the top. The diaphragms emulsion tubes look really good.
I tightened down the pilot screws before removing them to see how far they were backed out. They were set at about 5 turns out! I know every bike will be different, but that seems too much. I took them out, and there were no washers (#21) in between the springs and the o-ring (#20). Also, one of the o-rings had a chunk missing from it. I ordered new o-rings and washers for both sets. The idle circuits were clean. All jets were clean.
When I put them back together, I will start at 2 turns out and work from there. I have not checked the float height yet, but I will adjust that as well.
(http://faq.f650.com/FAQs/Photos/CarbnJetPhotos/GS500ECarburetorKLMNPRST-1989-1996.jpg)
Sounds like somebody was trying to fix the same problem, and lost the o-ring in the process.
Did the 5 turn thing, myself, once. Counted 1/2 turns, instead of complete rotations. I wanted 2.5 turns out, which is perfect for mine.
I'd like to know the sizing of those little boogers too!
Need to replace both #57s, 17, 45, and especially 29. 29 is an important one.
When I replaced the O-Rings, I took the carbs into one of the big box autoparts store (can't remember which, it was in Phoenix) and they had this huge box with multiple sizes of O-Rings. We just randomly grabbed sizes till we found ones that matched. Hell, after about 3 minutes we had them all replaced and he wouldn't even charge me!
Ok, so the other day I got all my o-rings and washers in. I slapped the carbs back together. Set the idle screws at 2 full turns out to start. After I replaced my choke cable I put the carbs on the bike, and tried to get it started. choke all the way on, and it fired up almost immediately. RPM's only went up to around 2-3k. After letting it warm up for a while and slowly backing off the choke, if I tried to take it off completely, it would just die. All the mean while it has a kind of stutter every so often. I guess it's too lean.
Today, I adjusted the idle screws to 2.5 turns out, and started it again with the choke on. It revved up higher this time, but after warming up it still had to rely on the choke or it would die. It is still is running rough too, and stutters every once in a while. I guess still too lean? I eased on the throttle slightly to see what would happen and it revs up fast and has a delay before the RPMs go back down...?
How many full turns out is normal, 3? If I end up going past that to make it idle at the right RPM's, would installing bigger main jets help? I think the number on mine are 134's (Don't forget I have a Vance&Hines + K&N). Also, what would cause the stuttering of the engine?
Did you ever find out what size jets your carbs have? It should be printed pretty prominently on the top. That sounds like the most likely culprit for leanness.
I have the V&H and K&N with 135 jets, but the problems your having should have more to do with the idle jets, unless you're having problems with the bike at full throttle. Have you played with the idle adjustment screw as well? That can be a source of headaches if not adjusted properly.
I pulled my carbs apart to clean them this weekend because my choke was not working properly either, but still no luck. I can make it start by turning up the idle, but once it warms up I Just have to keep turning the idle down. Every redlight until I'm out of town is just me leaned over playing with the idle screw. I didn't think to take out the air mixture screws. Is there anything gas behind those screws, or just air? If I unscrew them will gas start leaking out and make a mess, or if I drain the float bowls will I be alright?
Wish I would've read this post yesterday morning instead of today after I already put everything back together.
Quote from: 007brendan on May 23, 2010, 11:07:52 PM
Did you ever find out what size jets your carbs have? It should be printed pretty prominently on the top. That sounds like the most likely culprit for leanness.
The jets are stamped 134 on top. I've read that with a K&N and Vance&Hines you should use 150's to get proper fuel/air ratio. Any ideas?
Quote from: tt_four on May 24, 2010, 04:02:57 AM
I have the V&H and K&N with 135 jets, but the problems your having should have more to do with the idle jets, unless you're having problems with the bike at full throttle. Have you played with the idle adjustment screw as well? That can be a source of headaches if not adjusted properly.
I pulled my carbs apart to clean them this weekend because my choke was not working properly either, but still no luck. I can make it start by turning up the idle, but once it warms up I Just have to keep turning the idle down. Every redlight until I'm out of town is just me leaned over playing with the idle screw. I didn't think to take out the air mixture screws. Is there anything gas behind those screws, or just air? If I unscrew them will gas start leaking out and make a mess, or if I drain the float bowls will I be alright?
Wish I would've read this post yesterday morning instead of today after I already put everything back together.
Inside the pilot screw chamber there are the idle circuits that lead to the float bowls. I'm not sure if the gas would leak out, but if you drain the bowls you should be fine.
I forgot to mention. The needles were both set in the 2nd notched position. 1 being the top and 5 the bottom.
I don't think your main jet is the culprit if the engine stutters and dies at low rpms.
Maybe your exhaust valves are tight. Tight valves would cause those symptoms.
Got it running well last night, but I think it needs some more fine tuning.
I adjusted the pilot screws out to three full turns, and then adjusted the idle screw some. It fired up first try without the choke. After it warmed up, I adjusted the idle screw until the RPMs fell somewhere around 1300.
Without any load on the engine when you give it some gas it seems to rev up quickly, and seems hesitate while dropping back to normal RPM's. I've heard that this can be caused by the mixture being too rich. I guess I need to try to back down somewhere between 2-3 full turns on the pilot screws and go slightly higher on the idle screw.
you should also check the float heights and valve clearances
Quote from: scroggins5000 on May 25, 2010, 09:19:45 AM
...when you give it some gas it seems to rev up quickly, and seems hesitate while dropping back to normal RPM's.
That's another symptoms of tight exhaust valves. Lean mixture or a carb leak would also cause this, but I would definitely check the valves if I was you.
I don't believe that is a symptom of being rich. Search around for "hanging idle" and most responses you will see pertain to being to lean.
Quote from: pandymai on May 25, 2010, 09:20:57 AM
you should also check the float heights and valve clearances
Float heights are good. I'd rather not move on to something else if I don't need to, so I will eliminate the problem of it being air/fuel ratio first. If it's still acting up then I'll look at getting some valve shims.
I should mention I am probably going to have to sell this bike. I wish I could keep it to ride to work, but I need the money.
if the valves are too far out of spec, you wont be able to properly tune the air/fuel ratio because the valves will not be actuating properly for the air/fuel flow
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on May 25, 2010, 09:34:31 AM
I don't believe that is a symptom of being rich. Search around for "hanging idle" and most responses you will see pertain to being to lean.
It doesn't really hang and then come down. It starts lowering RPMs immediately, but it seems it takes longer than it should to reach correct idle.
Quote from: pandymai on May 25, 2010, 09:57:51 AM
if the valves are too far out of spec, you wont be able to properly tune the air/fuel ratio because the valves will not be actuating properly for the air/fuel flow
Yeah I know, but if they are in spec then I should be able to tune it properly.... So, I'm not going to check the valves yet. I want to eliminate one problem at a time.
For example, If my lamp doesn't come on, then I could check the light bulb, check the fuse box, and call the electric provider all at the same time... But I'd rather see if it's plugged in first, then move on to the next solution.
i'll admit im not sure. but my point is that you wont get the throttle response you want BECAUSE the valves are out of spec. that is, IF they are..
my only experience is when i fixed another bike, it just wouldnt respond kindly to throttle and would be slow to come down off a rev. i would adjust as you are now. then decided to take the 20 minutes to check valve clearances. super tight in exhaust valves. swapped off the shims and everything ran cleaner. true, the bike wasnt running 100% yet, but every adjustment was closer to perfect, not just plateau-ing at "close"
personally, the carb is a harder to tune variable than the valve clearances. so if i knew for sure my valves were in check, then i knew i could get my carbs to do what they needed to correctly without worrying about another issue.