GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

I've had this idea for a while, but wasn't sure if I really remembered enough about my last bike to contribute. A lot of people have been moving up to new bikes in the past couple weeks, and I've been on the lookout for a new one for a while now too. People are always curious what a good next step is since the GS is considered to be a beginners/learning bike. I think it would be cool if we could get a thread going so everyone who's ever owned another bike could give their best description comparing it to the GS. Every time someone gets a new bike we always ask for their opinion, but it'd be nice to get them all in one place so when someone is looking for a new bike they could read through and get some opinions.

Too keep it useful, start with as many specific details as you can, and once you get that out of the way you can throw your subjective opinion in so we stay on topic.

I'll start. I've owned 3 other bikes, a 1983 yamaha xt550, and a 2001 ninja 250, neither of which are really a step up from the GS, so I'm not gonna bother with those. My last bike was a Triumph Speed Four, so I'll see what I can come up with.

2003 Triumph Speed Four:

specs:

599cc inline 4
Dry weight of 374lbs (compared to the GSs 372-381lbs depending on the year)
98hp and 50 ft/lb f torque (compared to the GSs 45hp and 28 ft/lbs)
Seat height of 31.9inches compared to the GSs 31.1inches

official business:

Weight is pretty much the same, but the first thing I noticed when I got on the GS after riding the Triumph for a couple months was that it felt top heavy. The Triumph definitely felt a little bit more balanced, which makes it easier to move around when you're not actually riding it. Once you get moving the GS feels fine though, but for someone who's worried that a 600 is gonna be a bit larger, and harder to handle, I don't think I would consider it an issue. The triumphs seat is a bit harder and higher, so I couldn't get my feet flat on the ground like I can with the GS, so that is a negative if you're short, but I think the lower center of gravity makes up for it.

The triumph came with clipons(although the newer street triple has riser bars). The clipons are on top of the top triple, and when I had it I always wished they were lower, although I think having clipons under the top triple of the GS feels too low, so I think if I still had it, I would consider them pretty comfortable now. One thing noticeable was the lack of vibrations compared to the GS. The engine runs way smoother, and at lower rpms at any given speed, so it's much more comfortable when you're just riding around. The Triumph definitely had a bit more bulk, as far as a bigger tail and tank, but at 5'7 and 145lbs, I consider the GS to be a little small, so you get used to it. It just feels big until you get used to it(as with any 600cc+ bike). As far as the handling differences with the bars, the front end was very stable. Having stock bars on the GS puts a lot less weight on the front wheel and makes it a lot less stable, although much easier to steer with your arms. The triumph used a lot more body weight to steer. I should mention I do have clipons on the GS now, and the front end also feels very stable now, although the switch to clipons on the GS takes hand grip vibrations through the roof.

There's obviously a big difference in both power and suspension, but the thing I missed the most when I started riding the GS was the suspension. The suspension on the Triumph just felt completely solid. When you were on the road, accelerating, or stoping, it just felt good. It was fully adjustable with preload, rebound and compression on both front and back. When I touch the front brake on the GS I can feel the front end dive, and in general it just doesn't make me feel that comfortable. Everything felt easier on the S4 because you could really feel everything perfectly through the bike, whereas you have to wait and see what the GS is gonna do once the suspension catches up. The difference would be like if you tried to lift something heavy and first you tried to do it with a stretchy bungie cord. You could lift it, but there's not a lot of feet. On the other hand if you had a steel bar welded to it, and you grabbed it and lifted, it just feels more productive.

Now the difference in power... I can't remember the exact difference, because I bought the Triumph 7 years ago, and back then I was younger and faster, and had no problem riding everywhere I was going at 10k rpm, as opposed to the fact that I usually ride the GS at 2500-4500 rpm and just take my time. The GS definitely picks up as soon as you hit 3k rpm and pulls ok. If I pull out onto a main road I can rev the GS up to 7k rpm and get up to the speed of traffic pretty good, but otherwise I usually take turns and with the GS just had more pull to get me out of a turn without having to rev the hell out of it. The Triumph on the other hand, you can definitely be at too low of rpms when you come out of a turn, but it's not the same as when the GS just does nothing but sputter. It still pulls, just not like you want it to. If you're in the right rpms, on the other hand, you can get from 0-80mph before you even know what happened. It doesn't have as much power as a cbr or gsxr, but it will keep up with them perfectly fine until you hit 120-130, when they'll start to slowly pull away. As far as what it was capable of... In 1st gear I could smoothly rev up to about 8k rpm, and if I'd give the throttle a good twist and pull back on the bars, I could get the front wheel to come all the way up. It would come up even faster if I'd rev up to about 6k, let off the throttle to compress the forks and then twist the throttle open again and it would pop right up. In 2nd gear I would stand up around 65mph(2nd topped out around 90), give a slight bounce on the pegs and twist the throttle and it would come right up again. I feel like if I wanted to slip the clutch when I was sitting down in 2nd it probably would have come up fine, but I didn't like to abuse the clutch. With a bit of practice I could also stand it up in 3rd gear. I would get going 90mph(3rd tops out at 115), give it a really good bounce and throw my weight back, and I could get it all the way up to balance as well, but it only took one speed wobble to make me not really want to set the front wheel down at 115mph anymore. If I try that on the GS I have to dump the clutch as hard as I can in 1st and still don't really do that great if I'm sitting down. You can stand up and bounce it, but that's a little excessive when you're only going 15mph. Another fun part of the Triumph was playing with it's power in the rain. When I'd leave a red light I could rev up to about 6k, let off the gas, lean forward and snap it back open and the back tire would just break loose and start spinning until you hit the redline, which was kinda fun, and something the GS definitely doesn't really have the power to do.

Also, in relation to power... It was an inline 4, which are all meant for top end, but supposedly the speed four engine was tuned for more midrange over the tt600. I thought it worked pretty well how it was, but I haven't really ridden any other 600cc inline fours to compare. I do remember the first time I rode it and twisted the throttle. I swore I was going to fall right off the back. The GS will move pretty good, but nothing that makes you think the bike wants to rip right out from under you. You get used to it though.

As far as any issues, I had 2 ongoing problems with the bike. First was the chain eating through the rubber swingarm guide. This was only a problem on the 1st year, as they switched the 2nd year from 14/39 to 15/42. Same gear ratio but it lifted the chain up slightly. I had about 3 of these guides replaced under warranty before the 2004 model came out and they finally had to admit it was a design problem, and I got a free new chain/cogset out of it. Had I known more about bikes, I feel like the problem could've been resolved if I had lowered the preload on the rear shock, which would have lowered the rear and dropped the swingarm pivot down. I was 21 and wanted a high tail and stiff suspension though, so I never really thought much about it. It probably wouldn't be a problem if I still had the bike now because I'd be fine with the rear being softer. The other problem is that no one at the dealership ever even mentioned that the suspension should be set up different, nor did they even think to set it up with me when I bought the bike, which is something I think a dealership should do when you buy a new bike, but who am I to say.

The second known problem, was that if the bike fell over on it's right side the gasket on the breather cover would leak, and it would let oil leak up into the air box. Obviously this is only a problem if you drop your bike, which I did, more than once. Currently I'd just replace it and be done with it, but back then I had a warranty, so I made them do it, and it was always a giant hassle because the service sucked.

Gas mileage, which I know people here go crazy for, I believe was around 40mpg. It varied sometimes slightly, but I always rode that thing around 9-13k rpm, so it's hard to say what your mpg would be if you kept it in the lower rpms sometimes. I think it would go anywhere from 35-43mph.


my opinion:

Overall, I loved the bike. I wouldn't have minded a little more power out of it, but it worked great for what I did. I rode it non stop, I put about 22k miles on it in the first 2 years I had it, and I rode it whether it was sunny, cold, or raining, and it worked fine for all of it. I thought it looked so much better than most of the other bikes that were out there, although the styling did look a little dated next to some other bikes like the 2003 cbr600rr or zx636r, but i still like curved bodywork more than sharp angular fairings. I got a little irritated at the stupid problems it had, but like I said I probably could've fixed most of them had I tried to myself, but I had a warranty  and hell if I wasn't going to use it, over, and over. Service was the worst. No one there had a clue what they were doing, I had to take the bike back for the same problems multiple times because they just wouldn't fix them. I always got attitude for being a younger kid with no money, as opposed to the usual guys they were used to seeing when they only sold BMWs. It's the same look you'd get if you rode the GS up to a group of harley riders and tried to chat about motorcycle stuff. By the end of it I swore I'd never own a motorcycle again that wasn't japanese, but after the past 3 years, I think I'd definitely enjoy having one again, and since I'm hoping to pick up a Buell this summer, that sentiment obviously didn't stick with me as I still think Japanese bikes are a little bland. This time around I'd just take better care of it, I'd make sure I had the suspension set up perfect, not drop it on the right side, and go back to enjoying having a bike that you never see anywhere else and really enjoy riding how it was meant to be ridden, instead of taking a racing bike and trying to ride it on the street.

I had a few scares on it, but it's definitely a reasonable step up from the GS considering I bought that one right after my ninja 250. There are plenty of naked bikes that have detuned old sportbike motors in them, with a cheap suspension and other cheap parts, but the speed four is pretty much the only 600 at that time that I would have considered to literally be a supersport with no fairing on it and cheaper insurance. It will keep up with other 600s, and would eat an sv600 or any other of the naked 600s with no problem.

(http://motoprofi.com/imgs/a/a/k/w/z/triumph_speed_four_2006_1_lgw.jpg)

Anyway, hope that's a good start. I know there's some R6s, a ducati, an sv650, a versys, a speed triple, and some other bikes we can get a good start with. Hopefully I'll have another bike soon to write another review so we can get this thing going. I think it'll be a great resource after a year or so as long as it catches on.

Great review! I picked up some oil change stuff at the Zook shop today, and sat on a 600RR.  Sales guy actually encouraged me to get some more miles on the GS before I even think about it!  :thumb:

Stopped into my zook dealer today. My bike was missing 2 of the plastic caps for the 4 bolts that hold down the handle bars. Just cosmetic, but they ordered them (no charge). We talked about the GS500F, rejetting, new exhaust and other things. I love my dealer - always time to talk to me and NEVER any attempt to sell me anything. He said the GS, with its 20+ year history, is such a rock solid design and a reliable bike that I'll get many years of riding from it. Also said that because of that, I'll never have to worry about parts availability.

We talked about rejetting to improve performance when cold. His answer? First, if I rejet, I'd need to replace the muffler and change the air box and retune it so everything works together. It can be done and will get a little improvement in performance with slight loss of MPG. Then he added, if a little choke when cold doesn't bother me, then why go to all that expense? Leave everything stock. That's a good dealer - explained everything and didn't try to sell me anything. In fact, a couple guys in the service department said the bike is so good as it is, why change it?

I think that says a lot about the GS500.

I park it in front of my office. I see lots of other bikers slow down or stop to get a look at her. Even choppers stop to look at her. Everyone says the GS500 is one beautiful bike. I used the drive up at the bank today. The teller knows I ride. Today he say the bike for the first time and said he now knows why I love to ride it. "I see why you used the drive up instead of coming inside." Asked if it was a 500 and commented "Sweet!"

My dealer sells Suzuki, Honda, Harley, Yamaha and Kawasaki. Today I told him I didn't see any other bike I would rather have (aka I have no intention of buying anything else because I love my GS) and he said he didn't blame me because the GS500 is one really good bike. When your dealer sell 5 brands and says the GS500 is great - what better testimonial do you need?

So why buy anything else? The GS500 is rock solid, has a long history, is reliable, easy and fun to ride, comfortable, looks great, is not too much bike that it controls you, yet enough bike for the freeway, gets 50mpg in the city and fits my butt perfectly (Oh, and did anyone say it is not an expensive bike?).

~52...54 mpg
$14/month insurance
Fuel injection, adjustable suspension, twin disks, digital gauge w/ white face tach, etc
Around 70 horsepower, enough torque
Out the door for $4798.00.  '09 with 0.2 miles.  Had change left over for a double cheeseburger. 
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t196/84CrapJ7/DSC05502.jpg)

Met an old guy on a Ducati HyperMotard 1100 last night.  Came down from Delaware -700 miles, he'd already put in 15,000 in two years.  The clutch was already going. 
He liked the Versys better.  That pretty much sums it up. 
Side-by-side pics are on my phone, when I figure out how to transfer it. 

Has anyone heard of the Aprilia Shiver 750? What are your thoughts about it?

Quote from: drduimstra on June 13, 2010, 11:16:11 PM
Has anyone heard of the Aprilia Shiver 750? What are your thoughts about it?

Cool bikes. Very comfy. I'd love one.

Quote from: drduimstra on June 13, 2010, 11:16:11 PM

Has anyone heard of the Aprilia Shiver 750? What are your thoughts about it?

Nice looking bike! :)
(http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/jpg/200810/aprilia-shiver-750-gw.jpg)

Quote from: plewis51 on June 14, 2010, 08:30:52 AM

Quote from: drduimstra on June 13, 2010, 11:16:11 PM

Has anyone heard of the Aprilia Shiver 750? What are your thoughts about it?

Nice looking bike! :)
(http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/jpg/200810/aprilia-shiver-750-gw.jpg)

much much sexier without that headlight fairing
(http://www.motorcycle.com/gallery/gallery.php/d/138343-3/2008_Aprilia_Shiver_FONZ_5931.jpg)

Just bought a 2009 Ninja 650R for 5.5K out the door. I was tempted by the versys but I am more of a sport bike rider and love having the extra wind protection the 650R provides.

In comparison...

Right off the bat the 650 barely weighs more than the GS..

I also took it on the highway and I can say the 650 handles the wind much better than the GS, cuts right through it. The gauge cluster is a bit goofy(all digital with an odd tach.)
just not going to TRY it!!!  :embarrassed:

Only thing is it is a smallish bike again so at 6'3" I think I about tap the leg room out on the both the GS and the 650R. However, the 650 handles very well and is a heck of a ride on twisties!

Overall, the biggest two selling points on the 650R are fuel injection and no valve adjustments!
The initial service from dealer on the GS was 400 bucks. The Ninja will be under 100.

picture below:

(http://www.brp650forum.com/kawaskai-ninja-650r-1_800x0w.jpg)

Check your manual again.  
Valve adjustment at 15,000.  Shim under bucket.  

The 09's are pretty.  
The service manual says to drop the front about an inch.  Unless they corrected it for 09, they're set wrong from the factory.  
And, if you want cartridge emulators- call Ricor.  Theirs are $300... but... if you tell them you'll rate them online... they'll only charge you $150.  Just saying.   :whisper:
(You don't have to drill the damping rod, either.  They just drop in.)

Edit:
By the way, I've got a luggage rack for one of those, if you want it.  And a brand new sport cover, still in the box.   :cheers:

I've only been on the bike a few days, but I'm in love with my new (to me) S3.

The powerband is huge. Low-end for days, and a good bit of top-end, to boot. I haven't gotten to do too much back road riding, but this thing feels solid as a rock. I've leaned it over pretty far, just as far as the GS if not more, and not once did I feel any lack of confidence in the bike.

On the highway, or just straight roads in general, this thing rides like a f%$king hot knife through butter, compared to my GS. The GS was a little more comfortable when I had the stock bars on, but I wasn't into the seating position with them. I swapped them out for clip-ons. I got the position I wanted, but the vibrations increased SO much.

The Triple is a few pounds heavier than the GS. It looks lower, at least to me, but the seat is actually a couple inches higher. I can't get both my feet flat on the ground like I could with the GS. I don't care though. Plus I'm only 5'10"ish, so some won't have that problem. The only time I'd need to have both feet down is if I was moving the bike, so I'm willing to just hop off and push from the side. Whatever. No loss.

I'll get a better review up, and delete this one when I do. I just want another couple weeks before I can give full detail on every little bit.

Oh yes.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/4701255451_66d374e095.jpg)

Here's a 2009 ER-6n (a naked ninja?) that I purchased on Friday.

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/John_N/IMG_3410a.jpg)

I've only got 140 miles on the ER and just over 600 on the GS, so t's too early to do a decent comparison. Meanwhile my GS sits in the shop for a second week awaiting its initial servicing.

That's pretty country.  Is that your house? 

Interesting that all 3 versions of the Kawi P-twin have shown up. 
But mine can go anywhere in that picture, not just the road.   :icon_mrgreen:   :cheers:

Anyone know why the Versys has upside down forks when its counterparts have convnetional, you would think they would all have the same??

Homer -

I live down in the woods, a mile from the nearest paved road and a few miles from the farm in that picture.

One comparison I can make between the ER and the GS is that the ER is easiier to handle on dirt and gravel roads. I have a steep and trecherous driveway and appreciate the big tires and low reving engine. The ER should easily win a low speed "race" against he GS. I can only imagine what a Versys can do in the boonies. I sat on one at the dealership. The seat height was a little tall for me, but I'm still green with envy.

Quote from: Homer on June 14, 2010, 05:41:09 PM
Check your manual again.  
Valve adjustment at 15,000.  Shim under bucket.  

The 09's are pretty.  
The service manual says to drop the front about an inch.  Unless they corrected it for 09, they're set wrong from the factory.  
And, if you want cartridge emulators- call Ricor.  Theirs are $300... but... if you tell them you'll rate them online... they'll only charge you $150.  Just saying.   :whisper:
(You don't have to drill the damping rod, either.  They just drop in.)

Edit:
By the way, I've got a luggage rack for one of those, if you want it.  And a brand new sport cover, still in the box.   :cheers:

OH!?!?

What rack and how much? :o

I used to want an R1 or a buell firebolt, but now I think my next bike is going to be a Yamaha V-Star. I'm not really into sportbikes anymore, and I'm glad I never owned one. It was bad enough maxing out the GS, if I would have had a bigger bike, I would have rode even faster and harder, not to mention trying to do wheelies and what-not.

Homer: Why a Versys instead of a VStrom?

Eklipse: I rode a 650 VStar the other day. Heap of shirt. Couldn't wait to get back on my GS. VStar vibrated heavily in ALL gears and had a noticeble lack of power. You think the GS is gutless - compared to a SV650 or whatever - well the 650 VStar was worse than the GS. I couldn't get the thing past 81mph. And even That speed took a while to get up to. And while trying to slow turn the handlebars were bumping into my knees! The bike only had 200 clicks on it.

Michael

Aprilia Shiver  :cheers:  I would love one of those, just to kool! Anybody know what they go for? $$$$

Otherwise, I love my 06 GS 500 for my first semi-sport type bike but I really miss my beast! My KLR 650. It did everything really good but nothing really great!  :dunno_black:

Quote from: rger8 on June 15, 2010, 07:21:49 PM
Aprilia Shiver  :cheers:  I would love one of those, just to kool! Anybody know what they go for? $$$$

They cost about $9000 new so its a pretty good price for an Italian bike  : :D

My next bike (2+ Years):
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/74/199084336_b4a0dc2ca5.jpg)
After that?
(http://www.musthavemotorcycles.com/images/bmw-s1000rr-large.jpg)

Quote from: drduimstra on June 15, 2010, 07:35:11 PM

Quote from: rger8 on June 15, 2010, 07:21:49 PM
Aprilia Shiver  :cheers:  I would love one of those, just to kool! Anybody know what they go for? $$$$

They cost about $9000 new so its a pretty good price for an Italian bike  : :D

dealer near me has a brand new one for $8k otd. Not a bad price at all

My second bike is a Monster 800.
It rides pretty good and is a nice solid bike. With an exhaust, it sounds freakin' awesome. Much like the GS, it also does not have any adjustable parts, so modding with ingenuity is required.
I recommend the 800 or S2R as a step up from a GS500. More power, but not too much power, and it has the same torquey twin feeling.

As it sits now (bar end mirrors later installed)

(http://sites.google.com/site/ajwduc/_/rsrc/1274110311860/2010-3-12---misc/P5150039.JPG?height=450&width=600)

Versys versus the Wee?  (lol, I love saying that)
Well, I've wanted one since they came out in 2006.  It fits my personality.  I got it new for a pretty great price.  It's got better brakes, better suspension, it feels better on the road.  And, I like how it looks.  
It's just gut feeling, really.  They're so close (along with the BMW), really just pick one and you can't go wrong.  

The only real problem - I like to jump curbs and climb up and down stairs.  The ground clearance isn't quite high enough.   :sad:

As far as USD forks, they're cartridges and adjustable.  The 650R and ER-6 have damping rods without adjustment at all.  
The 650 suspension is utter garbage, to me.  
If you push it, like a sport bike should be - it really shows.  Too mushy on the soft stuff, rock hard on the square-edged road faults.  Emulators and springs are mandatory, but then the rear sucks.  The rear spring doesn't have linkage (1100 lb rate) and is only modified with a $700~$800 aftermarket.  Versys has an adjustable rear.  
I just didn't like it.  The wind blew me all around on it.  At 80 mph in a sweeper, you'd nearly drift across your lane if there were any bumps at all.  I had to stand it up straight to hit an overpass - scared of any bump whatsoever.  Blech!

I had the front suspension modified in the first 3 days I had it.  Ricor emulators.  Sold them to the kid that bought the bike.  
All he cared about was the Scorpion exhaust.  
The Versys?  I dialed the rear down two clicks - haven't touched it in 700 miles!   :woohoo:  
Besides, I can beat the pants off that Ducati up there on a whim.   :icon_twisted:

I am thinking of upgrading to either a nija 650R, ER-6n, Versys or something similar in size to these bikes.  On the GS when going 65+ mph on open highways i significantly notice the wind and almost feel like it is throwing me around on the highway.  I was wondering how much of a difference these bikes would make as far as i guess stability in the wind at higher speeds.  I rarely go on 65+ mph roads now because it just isn't fun to get tossed around like a rag doll from side to side of the lane from wind.  The bike always feels stable and doesn't feel like I am going to crash but i am looking for something that will get tossed around less or are all bikes the same in this aspect?

Thanks

Well, since I've had both...
(This is my opinion.  Nothing more.)
I have very low body mass.  Wind is a problem. 

Crosswinds on the Ninja were a b!tch.  One word: Fairings.
In one week, I'd been swept across my lane more times to count.  Few times a day, once almost into a semi truck. 

On the V, only once.  During a severe thunderstorm. 
4 or 5 trees were blown down in that same storm, it was pretty bad.  Just last week, actually.  You can check the reports (central to southern NC). 
If the traffic is heavy (dirty, turbulent air), my helmet gets knocked around.  Not as bad as either the GS or the Ninja, though. 
I'm not upgrading to a bigger windscreen.  I just slow down and get out of traffic. 

The center of gravity (believe it or not) is only an inch or so above the Ninja's.  It's just the tank, seat, and bars are taller.  With that height, though, you get comfort, a 5 gallon tank (Ninja's is 4), and less knee strain. 
You lose cool factor with the GSXR crowd.
Two dozen people have asked me if it's a BMW or Ducati.  They refuse to believe it's just a Kawi. 

I have not had a Versys so can only comment on the 650r..

I started with a ninja 250 then went to a GS500f

Both were GREAT communter bikes in town. However, even in still air, they scared me at anything past 60mph. Heck, even on I-90 going 50ish I would be blown around like a leaf.

On the 650r it was a totally new experience. It cuts through the wind like a knife.

I was actually afraid a bit to ride it home after buying it after the other two bike. Once I got on 405 though(the local construction mad interstate) I was in heaven. It cut a straight line and kept it and seemed to ignore gusts and anything else. I did ride it home one night in a pretty hairy scarey rain storm and had to keep it to about 50 but I never felt like I was blown around. I was just on new tires and was not willing to play with rain and new tires. Stupid me for even doing it! :dunno_black:

Now, that being said I am 6'4" tall and about 195. SooOOo..that could make a difference! :icon_mrgreen: It also DOES have significant helmet buffeting. I am installing a PUIG windscreen tommorow so will tell you how that makes it feel after.

One thing I have noticed and maybe some bike vets can tell me if it's bunk or not.

The 650r has a cut out in the fairing that supposedly creates a wind bubble to help keep in more stable. You can see it in pics ...

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kITZpuB2NnE/Sayvd7DPkEI/AAAAAAAAA6E/Q2cZG08Z72I/s400/2009-kawasaki-ninja-650r-1.jpg)

Is that advertising huba joo or something that really works?

oh, in the bikes defense it looks nothing like a gsxr :icon_rolleyes: lol..my opinion at least but I hate the looks of the gsxr and want nothing to do with them...my opinion purely!

I had the Puig screen.  It doesn't help.
The top of it just flaps around, because there's only 4 screws that hold the entire thing down.  
The wind still hits you about mid-chest, with stock bars.  

Edit:
You're 8 inches taller and 60 lbs heavier than Bass and I. 
The Ninja's set for a 175 lb rider that wants a cushy ride.  No pre-load adjustment anywhere, only compression on the rear spring.  Your weight settles it down even further.
The V has pre-load and compression adjustment on both ends.  No rebound, but I've found it to be near ideal. 

sigh...

:icon_neutral:

Oh, and do you have that luggage rack pic??! :icon_lol:

Not trying to argue, Hammy.  
Just warning you, before you spend the money.  That thing's like $130!
When I say "flops around", I mean an inch of vertical play.  Seriously, it's bad.  
I was gonna try 3M two-sided molding tape under the screws, the $8 stuff.  But, sold it before I got around to it.  

It does LOOK better, though.  The tinted ones are nicer than the stock plexi.  

Edit:
Yeah, I took the pictures of the rack.  Then, promptly lost the SD card.   :technical:
I was wiring up a relay for deer-spotting lights all yesterday. 
Where are you, anyway? 

DUDE!..no..thanks for the input! :D

The sigh was for it not working...I was hopeful!! THat is the ONLY thing I have to grump about on the new bike..lol..guess I gotta have something huh?..lol

I can return it to motorcycle superstores though if it flexes around too much. Their return policy is top notch.

Thanks for the inputs.  I guess my next step is to go and actually sit on the bikes and see what feels comfortable.  I am leaning more towards the Versys or ER-6n over the ninja just simply based on looks.  I have the 500F now and liked the look of the fairings but the more i look at other bikes i think i am starting to like the naked look better.

Quote from: Homer on June 21, 2010, 12:30:14 PM

Edit:
Yeah, I took the pictures of the rack.  Then, promptly lost the SD card.   :technical:
I was wiring up a relay for deer-spotting lights all yesterday. 
Where are you, anyway? 

East of Seattle,WA...

Bellevue actually for people familiar with the area:)

Quote from: hambonee on June 21, 2010, 12:33:32 PM
I can return it to motorcycle superstores

Bingo.   :thumb:
Plus, your geometry is different. 
Didja get the tinted one?  C'est magnifique!
You see that little lip, the inch or so right after the main bubble?  That's what flops.  You could possibly trim it and sand it nice.  It looks like it would deflect air, it's what I thought too.  It's just too little, though.  
It would be perfect... :embarassed:

Yeah, Bass.  Definitely sit on them first.  
The height of the V is gonna be the only thing that really scares you.  It does settle about an inch after a few hundred miles in the saddle.  It's *supposedly* tuned for more bottom-end opposed to top-speed, but I never noticed a difference.
You're not gonna go wrong with either one.  
We're both perfectly content.  (And I'm glad we can get along, Ham!)
Go with your gut feeling, I say.  Forget us, seriously.  We're just talking heads in internet-land.  Ride your OWN bike.  

Yup!

Dark smoke. Will be interesting to see what it ooks like mounted up. Sun is actually finally poking out..might get some riding in after work even!

Oh, and just want to throw some kudos out to Kawasaki on the 3 bikes(Versys,650r,650n). Really, they put together 3 very different bikes off the same basic frame etc..Awesome work!

When I bought the 650r I was just going NUTZ in the dealership between the 3...lol. But yeah..be true to thy self! O0

GS500 – first bike, the perfect beginner's bike. Love the character of the engine (airy and zingy) when not in a hurry, but the power is barely adequate for commuting. Once maxed out at 75mph against a strong head wind. Tips in quickly in corners, but the suspension feels a little dead (not lively), and the brakes feel weak. After 7k miles, I still enjoy riding it, but feel it's time to move on.

YZF600R – second bike, had a hard time turning it in the beginning, but now my favorite all-around bike after I got used to the sportbike ergos. All the controls feel much slicker than the GS. Love the inline-4 sound and top-end rush. Enough low end torque to pull well even below 3k rpm. Awesome suspension – you can feel the bumps get soaked up and damped out in a well controlled manner, very reassuring when hitting bumpy pavement. Super stable at high speed, yet lively and tips in easily. Due to the lower clip-ons, not as easy to ride at very slow speed tight corners as the other 3 bikes w/ handlebars.

SV650 – third bike, feels a lot like the GS, except bigger, more modern, with a beefier/stronger engine. Like the easy torque just off idle, and quick handling. The engine revs surprisingly quickly, but has strong engine braking when off the throttle, so not much free wheeling compared to an inline-4. Stock suspension is awful if you care about suspension – bouncy and crude. Fuel injection is great. The SV is a very competent bike, but somehow it doesn't grab me emotionally.

DRZ400sm – fourth bike, looks pretty trick with the beefy up-side-down forks, wired wheels and semi-knobbies. The dirt bike ergo takes some getting used to every time I get on it. Feels super light, rails corners like a dream, hugely entertaining the hills and on rough/dirty pavement. Terrible headlight (weak, with dark spots just off center in the light pattern) for night rides. Not fun outside the hills, on normal streets, because not enough power. I feel seriously outgunned whenever a squid pulls up on a sportbike on city streets. This is a very niche bike for fun in the hills and on dirt. 

I have grown completely satisfied with my GS. The poking around on the net IO found this....
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y299/liloody/honda-nt700v-8_800x0w.jpg)
At one time I thought I really wanted a BMW F800 ST. That is until I started poking around on their site and found the problems that were popping up with the bikes. Motor probs, rear bearing probs, electrical probs, just too many problems for a bike that's going to cost 13 grand.
This new Honda NT700V looks like it just might pull me away from the GS if a Vette doesn't first. It's a proven design that has been cruising Europe for 10 years getting 50 mpg. One of the interesting options is the saddle bags have a pass through from one side to the other. It's a tad on the heavy side @ 560 and the reviews say a 6th gear would help but a tooth up on the sprocket fixes that. It's suggested retail is 10k but there's one on the flea right now for 8185 OTD in Arkansas.
I had looked at the Versus but it's just too tall for my taste. If they made one with a 30 to 31 inch seat height I would seriously consider it too, if I were seriously considering another bike. The Vette is still calling and with a Vette I can keep the GS. Then I'd have a bike and a Vette and my kids would have to worry about me for a change.

I took "Suzie" on a ferry ride last week end. Guys with the liter bikes and even one with an Intrepid 1500 really were interested in my GS500F. They asked lots of questions and were impressed with its style, power and acceleration. Shows you can really impress the big guys with a GS500. I sensed envy when they said how sluggish their big bikes were at accelerating on the highway. GS500 is right in the optimum power range at 6k rpm at 65mph. A little twist of the throttle and ZING! 80 mph!

Bought a new phone today. The Sprint person said he used to have a GS500 and now has a GSXR600. He wished he kept the GS500 because its ride is more comfortable (more upright, not rocket style) and his girlfriend likes the long single seat rather than a separate seat for the passenger so she can hold onto him.

Got nice comments at a stop light from a Ninja rider when he saw my GS500F.

What are people's thoughts about a Yamaha R6?

Quote from: drduimstra on June 27, 2010, 09:27:42 PM
What are people's thoughts about a Yamaha R6?

its freakin awesome but unnecesary, and too expensive on insurance haha. but if i was goin 600 id go cbr, imo.

I was thinking that too Im eying a 08 cbr600rr

I did a super long write up on the xb9s last night, but it's not here. I think I must've hit preview to proofread it, and forgot to hit submit. That sucks. Guess I'll try again later.

That does suck.  
Got that thing titled and everything by now, right?  

Edit:
I'm a fan of this Beemer:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585668 (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=585668)
http://www.webbikeworld.com/BMW-motorcycles/bmw-g650-x-series.htm (http://www.webbikeworld.com/BMW-motorcycles/bmw-g650-x-series.htm)
53 HP, 44 ft-lbs, 326 lbs dry, on-demand ABS, liquid cooled, fuel injected, centrally located fuel tank, high ground clearance, etc, etc.
The bad:
2.1 gallon tank (but 155 mile range) and $$. 

Well a while back i sold my GS one of many bikes we have. Still have a K8 that ive sprayed in 2pk black with a solo cowl- if i can find a pic ill put it up. Heres my latest.

(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/1466/043010144400.jpg)

Just got off of a Trumph Bonneville test ride.

I thought I would collect my thoughts here for everyone.
This is the basic Bonneville, with 17" cast wheels, no Tach, no accessories.

Ergos: Seat height is pretty low since this is essentially a Brit cruiser, significantly lower than the GS.  Seat to peg distance is also greater, I felt like I was going to grind the pegs constantly.  Bars are comfortably positioned and the rider is very nearly upright.
It would certainly be comfortable for long term trips and the saddle is both firm and supportive.
I believe that the bar to seat is roughly the same as the stock GS, though I have now switched my bars to superbike's so it has been a while since I had the old ones.

Engine/Gearing: EFI fueled 865cc parallel twin is definately tuned for low rpm torque.  Bogging it to 2000 rpm or so (no tach) posed no problems.  First gear is low for better pull off the line, upper gears are well spaced for cruising about.  Official numbers are 66HP and 50 ft*lbs torque.  Seat-of-the-pants felt good with a solid launch off the line and able to cruise along without twisting your wrist off constantly.  Engine braking was alot less than the GS probably due to the low compression engine design.

Handling/Braking:  The cruiser position left the handling vague and uninspiring.  Turning into a corner was less intuitive than the GS, though I am willing to implicate my lack of experience with the geometry of this machine.
Brakes were adequate, about the same as the GS.  Maybe a bit more lever travel before the pads started to bite than the GS.  Maybe just needed adjustment.

Overall:  The Triumph Bonneville is not a bad machine for someone looking for a more relaxed/cruiser style motorcycle without going all (H-D) hog wild.  Comfortable, good-looking retro-styled machine that is able to cruise around town and out all day.  However, for sportier looks or stance consider the Thruxton.  (Note: appearance and riding position only!  :2guns: Still the same engine!)

I think that for me, the Triumph Thruxton might be the better option.  Same engine, sportier position, and taller seating and pegs.
However, for me performance is NOT the most important element.  Decent torque to move my wife and I, and a mellow cruising rpm, are all I need.  Add on the beautiful, head-tuning retro style and I think I have found my next bike.  :thumb:

Oh, and there are tons of pricey aftermarket widgets for the Triumph retro line to polish off your image of the perfect bike.

Feel free to ask me anything I may have forgotten to mention.
CliffHanger

EDIT: I cut this down. Believe it or not this is about 1/3rd the length of the original write up. I don't have the energy to write it again, I don't wanna leave anything important out.

This thread has been dead since July, but I'm bored out of my mind at work and never get to ride anymore, so I figured I'd add something. I already wrote a huge writeup on my XB, but then I lost the whole thing when I tried to post it. Very dissapointing.

Anyway, 2003 XB9. Picked it up in June with 3400 miles, has about 6800 on it.

Details:

385lbs dry
92hp @7200rpm
68ft.lbs @ 5500rpm

Size: This one is kind of tough, because my GS has a tail swap so I'm not 100% sure on where the stock seat height would be. The Buell XBs also come in a variety of sizes. Lightnings have 3 different suspension lengths depending on which model you pick, and there are also 3 seat heights. There's a pretty big range of heights you can get. I'm 5'8 and at the lowest I could get both feet flat on the ground and still have some bend in my knees. Even at the normal height suspension and the tall seat I can get both feet on the ground, just not flat. There are also 2 different peg heights between the lightning and firebolt models and both are interchangeable, and pretty cheap to buy used. Between all those factors you can pretty much get the bike set up any way you want.

Front of the seat to the center of the handlebar clamp on the XB is 5 inches shorter than on the GS. Pretty huge difference. It was weird the first time I tried to grab the bars, but it's definitely comfortable for around town. When I get back on the GS it feels like I'm super stretched out for a couple miles until I get used to the feel again.

Over all the bike is pretty tiny for being 984cc, the 1203 version has all the same physical dimensions. People usually think it's a 500cc bike when they see it, so it's definitely one of the less intimidating bikes to try to handle, and it definitely feel smaller than my GS500

Power: As you can see from the numbers above, it's got pretty low HP for a 1000cc bike, but the torque number is huge. The motor doesn't have the top end punch that makes you feel like you may die when the rpms rise, but in trade you don't have to deal with that soft bottom end that most inline 4s have. I have literally come out of a turn at idle on the XB and it just pulled me out of the turn. There's no way that would happen on the GS. Stop light to stop light is very easy on the bike, and it lets you ride back roads at a pretty decent pace without stressing the motor, which gives your rides a very smooth and controlled feel. The ECMs are also reprogrammable with a $30-40 cable you can get online, and all you have to do is download the ECM program and a new fuel map and you can update it. Much cleaner than pulling apart the carbs to install new jets and needles.

Suspension: I don't know a ton about suspensions. I don't really know how to set them up, or what they should feel like, so I can't elaborate too much on this one, but the suspension on the XB is definitely nice. One thing that usually sucks about naked bikes is the cheap suspension. This is one of the few bikes that has always come with USD forks and a fully adjustable suspension. I still have mine set on the factory recommendation for my weight. I started off with the lower SCG suspension, which is an inch and a half lower than stock. After about 4 months I finally collected all the parts to lift my bike up to normal and it definitely made the ride better. The only time the short suspension really bothered me was a few miles of the highway heading out of the city. The whole strip was just rough and I'd try to ride the whole thing with barely any weight on my seat. It's great for keeping the center of gravity low, and keeping the seat height low, but the regular suspension definitely smooths things out a bit and made me a lot more comfortable on back roads because I wasn't as concerned about every pot hole or crack in the road anymore. I have progressive springs and thicker oil in the GS forks and I only weigh 145lbs, and it's still too soft.

Taller suspension also makes the front wheel a bit lighter  :thumb:



Finish/cosmetic: Definitely a big different between the bikes here. If you look at the subframe on the GS you can definitely tell some 16 year old got paid (3rd world)minimum wage to weld it. Everything on the XB is clean from the welds, to the brackets, and just the way everything was set up. There was definitely a lot of thought put into the details of the bike. Again, it's super rare to see a naked bike actually built with some respect. I love the clean lines of the bike too. Newer bikes just look more and more complicated every year. Everything is sharp angles, flashy graphics, recessed headlights, randomly shaped air ducts. It's very busy. The XB just has a very simple look to it, large frame down the center straight into the swingarm, even the motor looks very clean for an air cooled twin. One of my favorite parts is how they used the motor, chin fairing, header, oil cooler, and air duct to make a perfect curve behind the front wheel, even though all the parts they used are straight. One thing I don't like about some naked bikes is that big gap behind the front wheel, but I think this one is filled perfectly...

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XFGuSZ6n1LY/SR_3Gb3t6lI/AAAAAAAAEY4/f7309GUixTY/s400/Buell_lightning_XB12Scg-ok_2007_08_1024x768.jpg)

Also, I love the belt drive. It's perfectly silent, and I haven't had to think about lubing a chain once since I got it. The motor also has self adjusting hydraulic valves. Aside from oil changes and tire pressure, it's literally one of the easiest motorcycles to maintain ever.

I love how easy it is to change the color of the bike. My bike started out yellow, I traded some guy for black, and then later picked up some spare red parts. I can change the color of my bike in about 5-10 minutes, which is definitely a plus. Someday I'll get the transparent blue, and hopefully a spare set to paint candy apple green. Since the gas is in the frame, it's just the air filter under what would normally be the tank, so you can pick up some clear pieces too and see straight through them to the air filter. Not something you see every day

One downside is that the stock exhaust used to blow air onto my left boot when I'd have my foot down at a red light. Eventually I got used to it and just move my foot further forward, or put my right foot down. Not a big issue, but worth bringing up.

Handling: Almost forgot this section! It's probably the most important too. The wheelbase on the XB is 52 inches, most bikes have a wheelbase closer to 55 inches. I can make U-turns like nobodies business, so it's great for riding around the city. Bike did a review and rated the top 50 best handling bikes and the firebolt made it to #1
http://www.buellmotards.com/buell/web/admin/BikeTop50.pdf
The lightning got #8, but the only difference between the way to 2 handle is the clipons vs handlebars, so that's pretty good.

The GS has super light handling. It's great for how easy it is to just throw the handlebars around, whether it's turn onto a side street, or just tight twisty roads the handling just feels very easy. The XB has that standard feel of bigger bikes with 180 rear tires, where it does like to go straight. As a whole, the whole biks is still super easy to toss around because of how short the wheelbase is, and how small the whole bike is. The front end is super steep too. It's not really a bike I'd want to be going 150mph on, but I don't really feel the need to go 100mph either. The handling of this bike is what makes up for the 92hp. Even with only 2/3rds of the power of most 1000cc bikes, it can still outrun most of them on back roads, around town, parking lots, anywhere but the highway for the same reasons that the GS will.

Worth mentioning: The bike shakes, a lot. I wasn't sure about it the first day or two, but after the 2nd or 3rd day I didn't even notice anymore. I've ridden I4s since, and they're so smooth you can barely even tell the bike is running. It's a weird feeling. I think it fits the bike well, it's a pretty raw feeling when you get on the gas and really feel the engine spinning. After riding the bike for 6 months, I wouldn't have it any other way. Once you're riding and the rpms are over 2500 rpm or so it smooths out a lot. Still not I4 smooth, but I've never had any issued whatsoever with handlebar vibrations making my hands numb, and my mirrors are always perfectly clear. The only real indicator is my turn signals shaking at idle, but I need to replace those with some smaller ones anyway.

Original color...

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4762718182_370d8754e6.jpg)

Side by side. The XB is a couple feet closer to you and it still looks smaller than the GS...

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4795460576_7c47ae7a95.jpg)

My favorite look with the transparent red bodywork...

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4142/4931136168_dbacf22546.jpg)

1st bike - '01 SV650S

2nd bike - '81 CM400C

3rd bike - '75 CL360

4th bike - '08 VTX1800F

5th bike - '95 (about to go on an '00 frame) GS500E (also will be turned into an "F")

Anbody wants to know about any of these feel free to ask.  The SV650S is a freakin blast, probably my favorite to ride out of the bunch.  The VTX is the most comfortable (Pending the GS which I have barely ridden before my GF got hit on it).  The CL gets the most comments.

Ive always been in love with the naked bike look.  Hence the reason the GS aapealed to me so much (that and the price).  When I upgrade I will probably go with either the Triumph Spped Triple or the Ducati Monster Dark.   :thumb:

I have had 45 bikes, over 17 of those have been GS'es, there have been maybe 15 unique models of bikes.
A GS is by far the first bike I would buy and if I am to only have 1 bike - the shock, the horror, it would be a GS. To be precise an 89 with the clip on's.

However its not a bike for everyone. If I didn't have lower back pain as a primary concern or if I had upper back/wrist pain, my choice would be a cruiser and I'd fall in between a savage and a 84-89 maxim 700.

IMHO, the maxim 700 is the bike I'd buy if I had longer trips in mind instead of commute commute commute.

If I was into serious modding - like bobbing and chopping - my choice would probably be an xs650. Though a savage also mods that way quite easy.

Cool.
Buddha.

I remembered there were a few writeups in Madjak's thread, so I'm gonna copy and paste them here...

Quote from: mister on December 29, 2010, 02:55:37 AM

Ok. Today's test ride was of a Green Street Triple (675cc - Striple) and a Black Speed Triple (1055cc - S3) as pictured...

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_AYmU9ozxu_o/TRq9R2Ta7iI/AAAAAAAAAbY/GxqFVxM6vZQ/StreetTripleandS3.jpg)

I started on the Striple, rode a route lap, stopped, then got on the S3. And here's my Impressions...

Street Triple (675cc)
Acceleration is sweet and there is plenty on tap. Twist the throttle, enjoy the three cylinder sound and hang on. This baby can go. Not as flickable as the GS - of course, I am used to the GS. The throttle had a dead spot - come off the throttle all together, then come on slow and there is nothing, nothing, nothing and then Bam a small surge. This is NOT good IMO. Imagine this leaned over mid turn.

The other noticeable thing was the heat coming up through the seat from the exhaust. I had only heard about this as a passing comment on another board the night before the ride and had forgotten about it. Forgotten until my butt started getting warm. Not something you'd enjoy in summer commuting in traffic. Not something I imagined would be enjoyable on a 60 - 90 minute ride somewhere.

Comfort wise I prefer the GS. The Striple was alright. But so are a lot of other bikes.

Speed Triple (1055cc)
This has after-market exhausts on it and two sets of oggy knobs which my knees where hitting. The cans sounded fine, throaty. The main thing I noticed on this was the seating angle. My feet were somewhat beneath me as you might expect from a supersport, for example, but the riding position is more upright - hard to explain. The result is, you either relax and your weight goes on the handlebars - or - you hold yourself up which makes it uncomfortable for the boys and strains your hip flexors (a stress position). After 15 minutes this was really starting to be annoying - the salesman said "you'll get used to it" (humph, anything to make a sale).  Oh, yeah, it could also take off with a throttle twist. No Heat issues though.

Of the two I preferred the Striple. But the price? Screw that!

The S3 was an 06 asking $10,800 - I can buy a Brand New Bandit 1250 for less ($10,490). The Striple was a demo model 09 and asking $12,400. Phhhttt to that price too. (These are Australian Dollar Prices)

They were ok to ride, don't get me wrong. But in all honesty, I would rather ride a Kawasaki  Z750 or Honda CB900 (919), get nearly the same throttle response, have no deadspot or hot butt issues, and only cost almost half as much moolah. Which = Better Value, IMO. Frankly, I don't know what all the fuss is about these triples. But am glad I had the opportunity to ride them, to satisfy the curiosity.

Michael

Quote from: Twisted on December 31, 2010, 08:12:07 PM

I am going to try to right a little review in similar vein to Mister's recent adventures.

Well I went with Mister to one of his test rides yesterday while he tested out a 900 hornet and the Z750. Not wanting to sit around the shop waiting I thought I would take a Ducati 900 Monster for a test run with him. Now I have always had a soft spot for them and secretly admired these bikes. Who here doesn't swing their head around when they here one coming down the street.

This was a 93 model so it would have been one of the first produced but it was imported into Australia via Japan and still had low k's on it. (Import bikes always have their shady side with speedos being swapped but in Japan it is known to have lots of early model bikes with low klms due to registering issues over there) The bike was completely stock, a little weathered but in good condition in Ducati red.

I had to follow Mister and the salesman on the test ride and first thing I noticed was how tall the gearing was. I did not get out of 2nd gear in the city where the limit was 60kms/h (35mph) and I had to take corners in 1st as the bike began to want go around the corner faster than you wanted in 2nd. This model only had a 5 speed gear box so I was not sure if I was just used to the GS's 6 speed or what. I know it didn't like to follow the other bikes. It wanted to be leader of the pack and just wanted to go!

It had beautiful smooth acceleration when you eased the throttle on and when you gave it a punch it responded like lightning and the sound of the V twin sounded like a small block v8. At one point entering the the highway from an on ramp a quick fistful of throttle and I was doing 150kms/h in an instant with a big stupid grin on my face.  

Riding position was very upright and the seat was comfy. I found my legs hugged the tank nicely although Mister sat on the bike and found his legs rested on the slight fold in the tank even though we are the same height.

It cornered and handle like it was on rails but not as nimble as the GS. I also did find it liked to follow the ruts in the road which got a little annoying at times. It only really started doing this on the road back to the dealer so it must have just been that road.

Other annoying things I found other than the tall gearing of the bike was the clutch and the gear box. I have heard this is a common bug with Ducatis though which is it finds a false neutral if you don't knock the gears up or down hard enough. When you let the clutch out from take off it slipped a little if you didn't give it enough revs and the clutch did not like to be ridden. I do not know if this was due to the fact Ducatis have dry clutches or if was the age of the bike. Also there was vibration at high revs. Not bad vibes but they were there.  But I should not really pick on that due to it being a twin. I could not see myself ever commuting on one of these as it is a bit of a pig in traffic but on the open road it comes into it's own.

I have heard people say that these bikes are under powered and over rated. Maybe so if you ride super sports but the torque, sound and the look makes this bike what it is. My summary of the bike is a positive one and I can easily see why riders fall head over heels in love with these. I think I may have  ;)

(This is the actual bike I rode) -

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff62/icecreamhands/1922-512226-1.jpg?t=1293851694)
[/quote]

Quote from: mister on December 18, 2010, 04:30:46 AM

I took one of these for a spin today...

Kawasaki Z750, 2010 model
(http://www.dkmotorcycles.co.uk/images/model_colour_images/large/2010kawasakiz750black.jpg)

First, the negatives...

- Seat was hard. Not hard like a board. And I thought, I wonder if it would soften with use and getting used to it. I felt it mostly in the rear of my butt. And when I got off I pushed the seat's padding and noticed the Least amount of padding was where I felt it and there was something Hard under it, like an Edge to the seat shape or something. I can't imagine what an hour would feel like - but like I said, the foam may soften with use.

- Cornering Reluctance. Okay, this is really subjective and in comparison only. So only compared to another bike - in this case the Honda 919 I just hopped off. This isn't to say the bike doesn't corner. It does, and sweetly, just that it needed a little more work than the Honda. Maybe partly due to the reduced fork rake and maybe due to the 190 tire on the Z750 compared to the 180 on the 919.

- Clunky Gear Changes. Again, this is in comparison. Cause really, it changes nice, but not as nice as the 919 did.

- Soft front brakes. This is NOT a fault of the bike but of the brakes being set up wrong.

Positives...

- Smooth acceleration. With the 919, a twist of the throttle Lurches you forward. With the Z750 a twist send you forward in a smoother fashion with less sudden lurch. Don't get me wrong, this bike Can accelerate like nobody's business. It just does it smoother. And the engine does Not sound like it is straining even as the revs climb. Rather, the engine sounds welcoming of it. So overall, if you're mid bend and come on the throttle you won't suddenly lurch.

- No deadspot in the EFI. When you come off the throttle and then Slowly come back on, the pick up is instant. It's doesn't leave you hanging and then Suddenly BAM, a punch of fuel.

- Ease of acceleration. While not as torquey as the 919, it ain't not slouch in the acceleration department.

The riding position is Upright and you are Closer to the front of the bike than on the GS. So as you go into corners you feel kind of extra upright even if you're not really. So any sense of leaning closer to the tank feels... it doesn't feel odd but the mental impression is different, almost as if leaning forward would put you way over the tank - this is me, being 6"2 so a shorter person with a shorter body would feel different about it. And this is a first impression. Obviously this would be gotten used to.

The mirrors did not vibrate. Nothing on the bike vibrated. As I said to the salesman when I got off and he asked what I thought... man, I cannot believe how smooth that bike is.

Now, this bike has a pillion seat. But you really wouldn't take a pillion. The GS500 is 2080mm in length, the Z750 is 2096mm... only 16mm longer. Wheelbase is 1405mm for the GS and 1440mm for the Z750. So dimensionally it's similar to the GS..

The only negative thing I've heard about the bike is, the forks have one spring and one dampener. But I cannot recall if this is for a certain model or how they all are.

So for those who may be thinking of getting an SV650 or some other 600CC+ class bike, take the Z750 for a spin, you just might like it. I really had no interest but my mechanic said to take one for a spin and I am glad I did.

Michael

Quote from: mister on November 20, 2010, 01:49:18 AM

I ended up riding four different bikes today. So in the order of riding them...

Suzuki SV650s
(http://www.sv650.org/gallery/pic29/jan%20sv650_03.jpg) (http://forum.svrider.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/21622/normal_bike%20pics%2031-03-2007%20012%20(Custom).jpg)

The first thing you notice when you mount the SV650 is the forward lean needed to reach the handlebars. While someone looking from the side might not think you are leaning forward too much, compared to the GS the lean is substantial - at least it was on the bike I rode.

Taking off, even at slow speed, you can feel the torqueiness of the engine. And giving an extra throttle twist sees the bike pull ahead nicely without sounding strained. The sound was throaty. The handlebar buzz from the Vtwin was not that great. It was there and maybe might play an issue after an hour in the seat at highway speed, but otherwise not too bad and something I'd assume you'd get used to easily. The upper body lean would be no good for those with a weaker core strength. I managed alright for the 15 or so minutes I was on the bike. But otherwise I found it a little annoying.

The worst part for me, though, was the bumpiness of the ride. Bumps the GS seems to absorb were readily transfered to me on the SV650s. That took confidence away from me and a few bends I bounced around. Big negative for me. maybe it was the way this particular bike was set up and another, different, SV650 would be different.

Suzuki Bandit 1250s (I wanted to ride the Naked but they didn't have one).
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3165/2815010795_11f44809c4.jpg?v=0) (http://www.moto123.com/ArtImages/89290/inline_01.jpg)

Hopping off the SV650s onto the Bandit the more upright riding position stands out. The height at which you seemed to be above the dials and road was also noticeable. The stock bike was quieter. But the power... oh my... so smooth and effortless. Even if you were in the wrong gear like one gear too high, the engine just pulled you right out without a hint of struggling. And the ride was supremely comfortable. The only two Issues I had with the bike were...

Cornering: While the bike does corner well and there is no sudden Drop into a corner, it felt somewhat reluctant compared to the SV650s and the GS. I put this down to the longer wheelbase and is something that would be quickly gotten used to.

Seat: The seat seemed to be angled ever so slightly towards the tank. And I felt as if I was sliding into the tank. Of course, this may hint I should have been sitting closer to the tank - and I probably should have - but it was something I noticed and something I got used to in the brief time I spent on the bike.

Yamaha FZ6
(http://www.minhamoto.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/yamaha3.jpg) (http://www.motospace.com.br/imagens/grande/83_325346.jpg)

This bike was an unintended ride. The bike I wanted to ride was not there. So took this for a spin instead.

First impression is how upright the seating is. I was expecting to lean forward much more than I did.

Following this... the first real corner I took on this bike I felt something not right. As if the front dug in a little or the back slid out! Either way, it took away all confidence I had in the bike to lean without doing something odd. As the ride continued this oddness in a lean disappeared and I figured it was inadequate tire pressure.

The engine sounded ok as the throttle was twisted. But while it sounded like it was working - and it was cause it needed to be revved to work - it seemed to be doing it harder than the SV650. That is, a quick burst on the throttle was more effective on the SV650 than the FZ6. Of course, maybe I wasn't working the FZ6 enough. In which case, this simply shows a lack of torque compared to the SV650.

I also noticed, that coming on to the throttle after being off, was a dead spot where there was nothing and then, suddenly, there was something. Not good when coming onto the throttle in a corner you may have come off the throttle on. Sure, ideally, we should always have some throttle, in an ideal world. But there are times when we don't. And expecting some driving force, not getting it, and then getting it suddenly, isn't too safe in my books.

Honda CB900 (Honda 919) Hornet
(http://www.roadbikemag.com/forum/images/919_riding.jpg) (http://st3.sulitstatic.com/images/2010/0812/105539165_2003honda919.jpg)

Hoping on the Hornet I felt at home. Nothing felt odd about the riding position or peg position. The throttle response was smooth like the bandit. But unlike the bandit, this thing leant into corners effortlessly, just like the GS. In fact, if you set out to make a more powerful GS500, I would have to say the result would be the Honda 919.

Conclusion...

All bikes had mirrors that remained vibration free. All bikes, when the mirrors were set correctly, gave adequate vision. In order of...

Cornering Preference (feel as it cornered - naturalness, stability, etc. - while the SV650 felt easier to lean, it also felt less stable on the road)

1 - Honda 919 (CB900 Hornet)
2 - Suzuki Bandit 1250s
3 - Suzuki SV650s
4 - Yamaha FZ6 (even though this did not Bounce around corners and took them Smoother, it is last cause of the squirliness I felt on the first corner, other FZ6's might be different)

Comfort Preference

1 - Honda 919
2 - Bandit 1250s
3 - FZ6
4 - SV650s

Power / Feel of Power / Smoothness of Power

1 - Bandit 1250s (the Honda would be equal first on smoothness and feel, but, obviously, it is smaller than a 1250 so has less of it. But how often do you do 125mph / 200kph?)
2 - Honda 919
3 - SV650
4 - FZ6

Conclusion Preference (which would I buy)

1 - Honda 919
2 - Bandit 1250s
3 - FZ6
4 - SV650 (if the suspension could be softened and the handlebars raised and brought back then this would move to position 3, but as comfort is paramount it drops to position 4)

My Experience At The Dealers...

Dealer 1 - SV650 and Bandit 1250s
Pleasant. No sales pressure. Talked like a normal guy. Even said at the end before I had a chance to say anything... when you're ready to buy, give me a call... and handed me his business card. Never asked how much I had to spend or any of those typical Qualifying questions - when are you looking to buy, what do you have to trade, etc.

Dealer 2 - FZ6
Had originally gone there to ride a Honda 919 they Said they had. On the phone had even suggested to put a Holding Deposit on it Subject To Satisfactory Test Ride. Oh yeah, that ain't highpressure selling. After a couple more textbook selling tricks I said... listen, stop with the sales tricks they told you at bike selling school, ok, and let's just go for a ride and talk like normal people... at which point he became more normal. He tried a couple tricks again later and I told him to stop with the sales pressure techniques and he went normal again. Overall, though, a negative vibe.

Dealer 3 - Honda 919
Salesgirl took me for the test ride. She rode a Ninja 250 cause that's all she had a license for. She was NOT going to go on the highway even though they are right next to it, and was just going to ride around the block. I said I wanted to go on the highway. We did... for about 500 yards (sheesh). Admitedly, she has only been at the dealer for 2 weeks. And she just about committed the biggest sales sin going.... not getting my phone number  :o But overall, a pleasant test ride experience - ride should have been longer, but from a salesman / customer POV, no bad vibes, no high pressure. Though she wore no gear bar a helmet WTF?

If you have any questions about any of these bikes that I haven't covered here, please ask.

Michael

Thank you, TT. I think they are better suited in this thread.

I'll also add a more indepth write up of the Honda Hornet 900 (Honda 919) once I've finished writing it.

Michael

I was hoping this thread would get resurrected! Like many folks, I picked up a GS500 as a first bike - fresh off the MSF course. Ultimately though my passion leans toward dual sport and adventure riding (through no fault of my Airhead riding stepdad of course). So, I picked up a used GS... BMW F650GS. Obviously it's far more confidence inspiring on the fire roads, and the racks and baggage were are far easier to put loads on than my bags on the GS500F. More power, more upright seating, and a more comfortable seat make it a better overall freeway commuter for me.

BUT

Switching back for a quick ride on the GS500, I definitely miss how smooth the parallel twin is compared to the thumper, and the low-speed maneuverability puts the (not that much bigger) BMW to shame. I'm still torn on whether or not to sell my little Suzuki. I ride the 650GS for a time and think "yeah, I'm good with this one" then I hop on the GS500 and go "woah, this is just *fun*"

Decisions decisions!!

I've been waiting for a Triumph Daytona 675 review...

The biggest handicap the GS500 has is it's lack of power. 44hp is only going to get you so far in terms of acceleration and carrying capacity. It's second problem area is the suspension, which like the engine is an older, more simple design and just not up to the task of more aggressive riding.

On the other hand, you can get a GS500 for cheap and it will give you up to 70+ mpg. I have ridden one all across the province, and through the mountains, except for having less leg room and less power, it was nearly as comfortable and pleasant to ride as my VFR800. It will go well in excess of the speed limit in terms of top speed, it just won't get there as fast as something more powerful.

The suspension is on the soft side, which gives it a cushy ride. Other people have noted other bikes seem to have a stiff suspension, but this is because they are set up for more aggressive riding to begin with than the GS500. This is something you just have to accept and be prepared for as the trade-off between squishy and sporty. My VFR800 has an Ohlins rear shock and forks, and I find it bumpy after getting off the GS until I get used to the firmer ride of the VFR.

You can get better compliance WITH performance but you to spend more money on things like cartridge emulators and/or aftermarket suspension. And there are lots of threads on changing suspension on the GS500 on this site using OEM parts from other bikes, which will give you better, but not GREAT suspension. Unless you adapt the new OEM parts on your GS with stuff like cartridge emulators, AK-20 cartridge kits, different springs, yadda yadda yadda. It's pretty endless up to a point where you have to ask yourself why you are trying to make your GS500 into a supersport when you could just sell it and buy one.

One of the greatest benefits of the GS500 compared to other bikes is the fact that Suzuki kept it mechanically the same since it's inception. It is also very light, with a lower seat height than some other bikes close to it's size. It also has a more upright riding position, which some people prefer. I think it is too upright and would put clip-ons on it, but that's me ~ I put lower bars on my VFR as well. The light weight makes it easy to ride in the city, but still capable of going coast-to-coast at a normal pace. The lower seat height makes it a good choice for people with a shorter inseam, which is not always related to their overall height. You will probably never have a problem finding new or used parts for your GS500.   

Other motorcycles that are liquid-cooled and/or have larger engines will have greater performance with less mechanical noise compared to the air-cooled parallel twin of the GS500. Different engine configurations produce different frequencies of vibration from the motor. If you are really used to your GS500, you may find other bikes feel like they have more vibration only because it is at a different frequency that on the GS. In some cases, the GS is just smoother overall compared to the competition. The 650Ninja and it's predecessors are a prime example of a bike that is superior in all areas to the GS except for the amount of buzziness at highway speeds. For whatever reason, the Kawi just has more vibration, period. My VFR feels like it has about the same 'amount' of vibration as the GS500, but it vibrates less in the bars and more in the pegs than the GS does so I call it a draw. 

Some engine configurations will make more linear power (Suzuki SV650, Aprilia Shiver, Ducati) with better midrange power. Other engines of the same displacement (Honda CBR600RR, Yamaha R6, etc) will make more power near their upper rpm range, but you have to be prepared to rev them out a little longer in each gear, which can get tiring after a while if you are just out for a leisurely ride. I had an FZR600 years ago that I had to rev the socks off of to keep up to a friend on his Honda GL1800 Gold Wing. I could have completely out-ridden him on a twisty road, but in stop-and-go traffic the Yamaha's 600cc inline four engine was no match for the Honda's 1800cc six cylinder opposed motor. The newest 600 supersport bikes may be able to keep up a little better since they make nearly 100% more horsepower than my FZR600 did, but for stop-and-go riding a v-twin (or v-four) would be less work overall.   

Lastly, heavier bikes sometimes have an advantage out on the open road. They feel more planted, and are affected a little bit less by wind gusts.

The Internet has really opened up a lot of information about various bikes such that you can find and compare reviews by journalists, ex-racers, joe citizen, etc on pretty much anything you might be interested in. It's great to no longer have to rely on just what the magazines and salespeople say.

Quote from: ragecage23 on January 18, 2011, 10:50:27 AM
I've been waiting for a Triumph Daytona 675 review...

By far the best way to find out what a bike is really like ? Check out a forum for people who own one.

http://www.triumph675.net/

Quote from: SAFE-T on January 18, 2011, 12:03:02 PM
By far the best way to find out what a bike is really like ? Check out a forum for people who own one.

http://www.triumph675.net/

The only downside to this is that you're going straight to a pretty biased group of people. They're all gonna tell you it's a great bike and you should buy it. There's also various opinions on whether something is light, heavy, top heavy, comfortable, pretty much anything because everyone expects something different from a bike. The nice thing about people writing on here is that it gives us a control because we all ride the same exact GS(minus a few random mods). It'll help people understand exactly what the differences are more than 'lighter and faster'.

Someone on here did buy a red 675, I remember seeing it. Maybe if you search the forum for 'daytona 675' you'll find a thread where he posted the picture of it then you could bug him to write up a description for us.

Quote from: SAFE-T on January 18, 2011, 12:03:02 PM

Quote from: ragecage23 on January 18, 2011, 10:50:27 AM
I've been waiting for a Triumph Daytona 675 review...

By far the best way to find out what a bike is really like ? Check out a forum for people who own one.

http://www.triumph675.net/

I already joined that forum and what it seems to me is that they're not much of a help. I've been waiting to test ride one, but the dealerships all say I'm too young (19 years old) so I guess I'll have to wait till I can walk in with some money to tell them that I'm close to buying to get to test ride one.

Quote from: tt_four on January 18, 2011, 12:54:36 PM

The only downside to this is that you're going straight to a pretty biased group of people. They're all gonna tell you it's a great bike and you should buy it. There's also various opinions on whether something is light, heavy, top heavy, comfortable, pretty much anything because everyone expects something different from a bike. The nice thing about people writing on here is that it gives us a control because we all ride the same exact GS(minus a few random mods). It'll help people understand exactly what the differences are more than 'lighter and faster'.

Someone on here did buy a red 675, I remember seeing it. Maybe if you search the forum for 'daytona 675' you'll find a thread where he posted the picture of it then you could bug him to write up a description for us.

alright cool haha that's what I'll do then. Thanks

Some more copy and paste:

Quote from: twinlove04 on April 05, 2009, 02:25:49 PM

After nearly five years on my  2004 GS500f and 14,000 miles of mostly commuting, I decided to trade up.  My new ride is a 2008 Triumph Speed Triple, which I purchased used with 1200 miles on it and warranty intact.  I'd like to thank all of the patient members on this forum who helped me learn so much about motorcycles in general and the GS in particular.  The moderators are to be commended!  If you are thinking about a much bigger bike, perhaps my observations will assist you (or perhaps not).

What I (still) love about the GS:
Wind protection, especially with ZeroGravity Sport-touring shield.
Light weight.
Gas Mileage.
Looks.
Learnability, from riding technique to mechanics.
Upright riding position and comfy seat.
The handlebars turn the bike.
No one wants to steal a 500, even in Albuquerque (where tons of bikes are stolen).
DIY maintenance...many many dollar$ $aved.
This bike is worth how much after this long?  Not bad.
One can almost daydream on the GS, it's that easy.
The sound of the GS with the Vance & Hines exhaust is superb.  When I traded the GS in the techs at the dealership were dumbstruck, "That's a 500?"
Centerstands just make sense.
Low seat height is great.

What I've learned from the 1050cc bike thus far:
Doubling displacement was not as scary as many make it out to be, but it can be.
1050cc's can be ridden with civility.
The law is much harder to break on a GS.
Naked bikes suck on the highway.
'Torque-monster' is an accurate term.  'Undies-soiler' is, too.
Leaning is mandatory to turn bigger bikes.
The 180 rear tire feels easier to lean on, but the GS can corner just as well.
Double front breaks stop you really fast.
Pavement variations are hardly noticed when steering.  So this is what a suspension is...
No one will work on this bike but the $tealership.
I'm glad I didn't go with a sportbike due to semi-upright riding position.
I would absolutely have picked a different bike if the price hadn't been perfect.  Honda Interceptor, VStrom 1000, Triumph Tiger for example.

That's about it.  Take care,

Patrick

Yes, this is the dealer pic, but I haven't changed anything major to warrant a new pic.
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/pbcronin/Triumph1.jpg)

The GS:
(http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g285/pbcronin/9b04cb59.jpg)

Quote from: gsagent005 on August 12, 2009, 07:22:15 PM

Well its been a while, but since i was last on i attended the ama vintage motorcycle days at mid-ohio sports car course. there were several dealers there offering test rides on the new 09 models. manufactures in attendance included:

can-am
bmw
triumph
ktm
kawasaki
yamaha
ducati
and some scooter company, oh well doesnt matter anyways right.

i had the opportunity to ride 4 bikes
   yamaha r6s
   kawasaki zx-6r
   triumph daytona 675
   ducati 848

all were great bikes and a blast to ride. the dealers had a 16 mile test ride laid out in the country roads around the track.

heres my first impressions:

yamaha r6s: i love this bike, it's what i've wanted to trade up into as my next bike. however, and it could have just been this demo bike in particular, i did not like the clutch engagement point, it was hard to get used to being that it was just about a 1/2 inch of pull would disengage clutch. like i said though, it could just be this one demo bike. as for performance the bike was very capable and easy to toss around, it seemed to rev forever and always took what i threw at it. riding position was very tolerable for a sport bike also.

triumph daytona 675: this was a joy to ride, although i did not get to "thrash" this bike as much as the others it was something i will never forget. the sound of the triple was amazing. at low rpm it had a kinda whine to it, and once it was let loose it rev'd like a 4 cyl but sounded much more "pissed off" in a good way that is. this was a very easy bike to jump on and ride. i did notice that towards the end of the ride i could feel the heat from the undertail exhaust. but for this european beauty i'd deal with it. the riding position was more aggressive than the yamaha but still somewhat tolerable.

kawasaki zx-6r: i'll have to admit, this bike impressed me the most overall. i'd seen this bike in the showroom, sat on it, etc. and i decided i wanted nothing to do with it. it seemed uncomfortable, i was looking over and through the windscreen at the gauges... BUT after riding this little gem my heart has been swayed. this was by far the easiest one of the bunch to hop on and ride. the bike pulled impressively, cornered well, sounded good with stock exhaust. was just a fun ride. the riding position was good, felt better than all the others to me. this engine also rev'd high but it got there pretty quickly.

and lastly...

ducati 848: i was really looking forward to this ride. they had a white 848 with the exhaust, ecu, and airbox upgrades, and a few other goodies from ducati's accessory line-up. this bike was an absolute beast, by far the biggest cc bike of the day and it proved it. while the stock horsepower is 130 (then add the goodies) which wasn't that much more than the kawasaki at 126hp ish it had gobbs of torque thanks in part to the twin. it pumps out around 70-75 ft lbs of torque all the others were closer to upper 40's low 50's in that area. this bike has a fairly flat torque curve so it pulls amazingly smooth and hard all the way through the rev's. this was the only bike i bounced off the rev limiter several times accidentally of course. the engine never gets a flat spot before redline at around 12k rpm and with the termignoni exhaust you just wanted to hear MORE. it was alittle harder for me to lean in, but that could have been me not wanting to wreck a $17K bike also ($13K base plus another $4k in upgrades). but alas all the good talk about this bike ends for me with comfort. this was the least comfortable bike of the group for me. the position was very aggressive, and my hands, wrists, arms, upper body, and legs all let me know it too. while this italian babe can get any guy/gal wet with excitement i could not ride it every day.


the rides had a lead and tail rider from the manufacture to guide you and keep you inline. while they would not tolerate "horseplay," they would let you "test" the performance of the bike (at your own risk of  :police: that is). the ducati i had up to abt 125mph (maybe 130 at most), the kawasaki and yamaha were upto 115mph, and the triumph (we had a couple slow riders) was only to abt 90mph.

and YES i had my gear on and did not ride outside my comfort level!!!

i'd still like to ride a suzuki gsxr600 and a honda cbr600rr, but they did not show up at the event.  :icon_sad:

well there you have it, i hope you all enjoyed reading this. feel free to post up comments or your own test rides.

i think ill be getting a 650 dual sport in the spring and getting rid of the 89

Quote from: tt_four on January 18, 2011, 12:54:36 PM

Quote from: SAFE-T on January 18, 2011, 12:03:02 PM
By far the best way to find out what a bike is really like ? Check out a forum for people who own one.

http://www.triumph675.net/

The only downside to this is that you're going straight to a pretty biased group of people. They're all gonna tell you it's a great bike and you should buy it.

They may also tell you exactly what's wrong with it.

But not all forums are created equal, and the more 'squidly' a bike is, the less good information you are likely to get out of it's owners, in my experience. For instance, I've found most VFR owners to be polite professional types, while the CBR600RR owners are "my-bikes-fast-and-I-rule" internet idiots. 

Quote from: SAFE-T on January 18, 2011, 09:48:52 PM
while the CBR600RR owners are "my-bikes-fast-and-I-rule" internet idiots. 

The gixxer forums are exactly the same way. That's why I'm still here  :cheers:

I would give a little write-up, but after about five lines I wouldn't be able to see what I'm typing anyway.

My first bike was the GS 500. I moved to Triumph Daytona 675 09.

Triumph Daytona 675.  Great move for me.  It was a bit intimidating at first when i got it as i was not used to so much power compared to a GS. I slowly grew to be comfortable with the Daytona power.

Lots of changes: Its a supersport so expect everything to change actually. 

The riding position is aggressive.  Expect your hands to actually hurt and be uncomfortable as it gets used to the new riding position. This lasted about 3-4 weeks. Now it no longer hurts or uncomfortable. 

The power/torque is there on all gears.  So if you are on first gear at 5K rpm and you twist the throttle fast then you will feel yourself take off.
This will happen the same in second gear and so forth all the way up to 6th.  This makes this bike a good second bike coming from the GS because the power wont surprise you as you get used to the bike. Its consistent on all gears.

Its very light and flickable.  Just like the GS with the right suspension, my GS was light and flickable.

If you plan to move up from a GS to a Triumph Daytona just know that you are moving UP to an Agressive Supersport bike.  There is no sitting up position.  I am absolutely in love with the Triumph and will probably never go back to a GS 500 and will go to a Street triple if i want a more upright riding position.   I am bless the i chose the GS 500 as my first bike though.

The triumph is a great second bike to go to if you want a supersport upgrade.  You wont regret it.   I think the key to making it a good transition bike is the consitent power the Triumph gives you . It makes it easy to respect the bikes power. 

Thanks blue, I've been wanting to test ride one forever now...too bad no dealership will let me.

See if you can find any locals that have one. If you can find any at a bike night or on local forums and go for a few rides with them. I'm sure after a few rides together I'm sure he'll let you take it for a spin. I'm pretty protective of my bike, but if I've ridden with someone a few times I'll let them try my bike.

I just need to find someone around here that has one then. I'll keep my eye open for one.

Honda Hornet 900 aka CB900F aka Honda 919 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CB900F

This bike has had two bites at the cherry. First, from 1979 to 1983. Then again from 2002 to 2007. The Second Generation bikes were known as Hornet 900 in Europe but seeing as Chrysler owned the word Hornet it had to be the 919 in the USA - 919 being the cc's of the bike's engine, which is a retuned CBR900RR engine. The reason the bike ceased to be made was because it could not meet the ever tightening European Emisssions Standards. A fate which has now befallen the GS500.

Details:

     GS                                     919
Wgt    174.0 kg (383.6 lbs)               194.1 kg (428.0 lbs) (dry weight)
Wlb    1,405 mm (55.3")                   1,461 mm (57.5")
Tnk    20.00 litres (5.28 gal)            19 litres (5.00 gallons) - some specs quote 19.5 litres with 3.5 litre res
Sth    790 mm (31.1")                     795 mm (31.3")
Pwr                                       96hp - 110hp (depending on who tested it)
Top                                       230kph (143.7mph)

Size: Lookng at the specs of Hight and Width is really kinda useless unless you know Where the width is measured and Where the height is measured. So as this is a "Compared to the GS500" topic, that's what the reference point will be...

First two things you notice about the handlebars is, they feel closer to you and closer together as well. Getting out the tape measure the GS bars are 81cm wide (31.5") while the 919's are 73cm wide (28.75" - bar end to bar end.) and the distance from the middle of the grip to the end of the tank on the GS is 64cm (25") and 60cm (23.5") on the 919. Of course, they could feel closer cause they are closer together, cause the headbearing is the same distance from the tank on both bikes.

What this means is, hopping on the 919 is like hopping on the GS500 but with closer-together handlebars. The seat is a tad higher which you notice when at a set of lights or whatever, and the tank feels wider between the legs. But otherwise, the ergonomics feel quite close to the GS500. And there is a touch more leg room on the 919 then the GS500 in terms of distance from pegs to seat - measuring with a tape the "top of peg to low point of seat" distance on the GS is 44cm (17.3") while the 919 is 49cm (19.3") an extra 2" of leg room on the 919.

Power: Obviously with almost double the engine size compared to the GS500, the 919 is going to have a stack more power. But it's where that power is that either makes it usable for the everyday guy or only usable on the track. And I'm pleased to say, the 919's power is very usable for the everyday rider. You can ride it sedately, just cruising around enjoying the scenery - or - twist the throttle a bit and enjoy the road more {wink wink}. Either way, the bike takes it in its stride and you never feel the bike will launch out from under you unexpectedly. And if you need to pass another vehicle in a hurry, boy can the 919 fly - even riding in 6th gear at 62mph you can twist the throttle and Very Quickly find yourself at a 100mph and you still ain't anywhere near redline. Like I said, this baby can fly. And with ease.

Suspension: On the road the 919 feels more grounded than the GS500. I haven't put my finger on it if it's the extra weight, the larger tires, the slight extra bulkiness the bike seems to have when you sit on it or the suspension. Whatever it is, the ride is quite comfortable even with all suspension bits left as factory settings. And cornering you never feel like the bike is working at all. For instance, one particular bend on a set of twisties I know, you feel the GS is close to the limit at 50kph (31mph) as you're leaned right over, but the same bend on the 919 at the same speed and you feel the bike could easily take it at 60kph (37mph) and still have room up its sleeve.

The older models had no adjustable suspension The new model - well, at least 2007 anyway - has completely adjustable suspension. Forks can be set with preload and damping individually.

Finish/Cosmetic: This is, or can be, subjective. But I'd say the 919 feels like it uses better parts. It has a less plastic feel to it. And thus the little bits and pieces have a sense of robustness about them.

Handling: If you can ride the GS500 you can ride this. The switch over to taking corners, bends, sweepers, everything, is almost the same. Getting back on the GS after riding the 919 for a while you do notice the GS really likes to dive into corners more than the 919. Going the other way - GS to 919 - you don't feel like the 919 is reluctent to take corners at all. It feels natural. Nothing new to get used to regarding the rider inputs to get the bike to do what you want it to do. About the only thing would be the throttle control - with a fuel injected retuned CBR929RR engine, the throttle can be quite eager, not crazy, just more instant than the GS500 throttle inputs.

It's got two disc rotors up front and it can stop pretty darn quick. Even with its extra weight it stops in a jiffy. And unlike the GS with it's "lack of feel" rear brakes, the 919 rear brake has a lot of feel to it.

Comfort: First, I am one of those people who find the GS500 quite comfortable. I'm 6'2 with a 34" inseam and on the GS I'll easily do a 2 hour stint and be fine. I might start to be a bit edgey the more we leave an hour and a half and get closer to the two hours mark, maybe move the feet around on the pegs and so on. But otherwise, fine. The 919 is even more comfy than this! I rode 300 miles one day and 250 miles the next and never once even felt the need to move my feet from toe to arch to heel and do small feet/calf exercises - which I would have done on the GS500. And my butt was not stinging, yelling for me to give it a rest.

With the handlebars being closer, the position is slightly more upright than the GS500. But my back is fine riding the 919. Even with those two long consecutive rides my back was fine. So for mine, the 919 is more comfortable.

Overall: I think for an easy transition from GS500 to something bigger, the Honda 919 fits the bill perfectly. I tend to think of the 919 as just a more powerful, slightly bigger version of the GS500. A bike that isn't really the best at any one thing, but bloody good at everything. And like the GS, an underated bike the rest of the biking community doesn't really know about.

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_AYmU9ozxu_o/TS_K2kKDWCI/AAAAAAAAAgw/kKWnQwfyIJM/CB900-panniers.jpg)

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_AYmU9ozxu_o/TS_K2iMVa_I/AAAAAAAAAgs/9MlKnN3qDNM/CB900-nopanniers.jpg)

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_AYmU9ozxu_o/TS_K2lCrVbI/AAAAAAAAAgo/mTCA7jdZ_yI/CB900%26GS500.jpg)

Michael

Are the bars on your GS still stock? I know I talked about how much closer the bars on the XB were, and even though they would still be stock to stock, I had replaced the gs bars when I got it so they're not nearly as pulled back anymore. Sounds like some renthals on the 919 would feel just about the same as stock bars on the GS.

Also sounds like this is probably the smoothest transition from the gs to a bigger bike so far.  :thumb:

Quote from: tt_four on January 23, 2011, 09:56:08 AM
Are the bars on your GS still stock? I know I talked about how much closer the bars on the XB were, and even though they would still be stock to stock, I had replaced the gs bars when I got it so they're not nearly as pulled back anymore. Sounds like some renthals on the 919 would feel just about the same as stock bars on the GS.

Also sounds like this is probably the smoothest transition from the gs to a bigger bike so far.  :thumb:

The bars on my GS are stock. Though I do notice the orientation of the bars within the clamps can either make the grips closer to you or further away.

One small thing about the 919 as pictured... when riding with one hand a small handlebar shimmer is evident. The strange thing is, it's only the handlebars and not the rest of the bike. The tires track straight, the bike stays smooth. And after speaking with another 919 owner who also experiences this - and who also has a small screen - I put it down to the screen. Being attached to the headlight bracket any wind force on it will come through. But a light steadying touch of both hands and it is not there. So I'll be removing the screen.

Otherwise, I would say it is definitely the Smoothest Transition from the GS to a Bigger bike.

Michael

Hey,

I had a look through all the posts but didnt see any on the Kawasaki Z1000 or the Z750.

Z1000
(http://www.motocafe.ru/images/stories/news_motocycles/news_032/kawasaki_2008_Z1000.jpg)

Z750
(http://wallpapers-diq.org/wallpapers/27/Kawasaki_Z750_Sportbike.jpg)

Has anyone had anything to do with these?

Oh and sorry about the big pictures

I suggest you have a closer look on the previous page http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=52805.msg619586#msg619586

Also know, as we discussed elsewhere, the Z750 is a resleeved Z1000 motor. So the Z750 is about 10 lbs heavier cause it has a few cheaper heavier parts and a larger gas tank, than the Z1000. But over the quarter the thou only wins by a tenth of a second. Meaning, out on the street where you do your riding, most people will not notice any difference between the two. And cause it's an engine designed for a thou but only has the stresses of a 750, in the 750 version the engine should last ages.

A took a Z750 for a half hour ride through some twisties. And that seat is just hard as. It's the only real thing other people say about it too. It's about the same HP as the 919. I've ridden three Z750s (2010, 2008, 2004) and they all felt they had a small reluctance to tip into corners Compared To the GS (the 2008 much less so for some reason). But they also felt they had the same engine performance. *I* would pick the Z750 over the thou cause they are virtually the same bike but the 750s are cheaper. And with the same engine performance over the range of 750s I rode, the only difference really is how many clicks are on the bike. Cause there is no perceived/felt difference between them (2010 models have a few minor tweaks - suspension, engine somewhere - but not that noticeable to the rider. And they remained pretty well unchanged from 2004 to 2007 with the 2008 model the first to have a small tweak from Kwaka). So there is no advantage to buying a 2010 over an 06, for example except knowing there's a small difference "under the hood" but you don't notice it while riding.

I would say, for an upgrade from the GS, the Z750 would be quite alright - take one for a spin if you get a chance, you'll be smiling. They don't sell 6,000 of them a year in Europe cause they're crap bikes.  :thumb:

Michael

Quote from: mister on January 24, 2011, 11:27:58 AM
I suggest you have a closer look on the previous page http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=52805.msg619586#msg619586

I'll learn how to read one day lol.

Everyone seems to say the same thing about the 750, "for street use, its probably the better option of the two"

I, uh, just bought a Hyosung 250 naked comet.

Its a move down the ladder, but I wanted the challenge of only 25-30hp again. Almost always had a 250 in the garage for 20 years now. 

Next winter I think to buy an older Monster. They are really good looking and fun. Impractical so they cant be the only bike.

And a Bandit 600s is on the short list.

These are all used, for cheap. No loans.   

Those 250s are great looking bike. I used to have an ex250 and it was a super fun bike. Gotten to ride it enough to do a writeup for us?

250 with a V-twin, USD forks, and a decent looking tail looks like a great setup  :thumb:

Rode a speed triple today!

The Good:

sound
torque
speed
Turning
Suspension

The Bad:

I've been spoiled by my double bubble windscreen. The Speed Triple needs something.

A little taller than my GS, but my seat is shaved down. I didn't really notice once I got going, but it was disconcerting at first, not being able to flat foot both sides.

Conclusion:

Definitely, something to consider if you want something different.  :cheers:

Both of the bikes reviewed below were ridden as part of a Demo Day. The dealer listed the bikes they had available and you had to Book a timeslot to take it for a spin. You were out on the road with 20 other bikes and followed the ride leader along the chosen route (seen here - http://tinyurl.com/3eknjat). The route itself is a nice open road route with highspeed sweepers and tighter twists as well as straight rural open road. The downside is, if you got stuck behind a slow rider through the bends you could not put the bke through the paces as you would like - unless you could manage to pass said rider beforehand.

Honda VT750s - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_WTLJhAodQ

(http://motoaus.com/images/stories/honda2010/honda-vt750s-side.jpg)

Sitting on the bike you notice a few things - small fuel tank (10.7 liters / 2.6 gallons), pegs are not forward controls so the legs do not stretch out in front of you, gear selector feels good and the handlebars are positioned just right (for me - I'm 6'2).

Initial slow riding the bike feels quite manageable. Slow tight turns are fine (such as a Uturn), handlebars do Not make contact with my legs and the bike feels responsive.

Out on the open road the bike takes corners and bends with ease. Readily leaning in and staying down as the corner progresses. However, if you are going straight and need to make a Quick Evasive, such as to miss a pothole, forget about it. The bike would rather go straight. Same if you have a few quick flick bends. Top gear also feels useless and gutless for anything other than a flat road and looking at the specs the 4th gear ratio is not much different than the top 5th gear ratio. Slight hills and you need to drop down to a low gear. So it's not so torquey as the Triumph America which can take the same hill in top gear.

Being a Vtwin yes there are vibes that can be felt. And as you accelerate and get into the upper reaches of an individual gear, the vibes increase too. However, they were not high-pitched annoying vibes but quite manageable.

There is no feel of power as you accelerate. It just goes quicker. Maybe time would be needed to get to know the bike more and what each gear is capable of, but I felt this was a bike you would need to correctly time any overtaking manuevers. It is what it is, a cruiser designed for steadily cruising the blacktop.

Comfort wise, after almost 30 minutes my back did NOT have any twinges (cannot say the same about Any Yamaha cruiser I've ridden) nor did I feel the need to adjust my seating position. And I don't know if it was just me, my knowledge of the road, or a lack of familiarity of the other riders and their rides, but I was passing sport bikes through the dual lane bends as we were going up hill. Actuallly felt kind of good to do so.

The only annoying thing was Something sticking into my right calf/shin. I've had a look at pictures of other riders on the bike and it turns out it was the right side engine cover. Wasn't too bad on my short ride and it's possibly something you could get used to, but it might not be able to be gotten used to and it might be real irksome after a day spent riding.

In summary: a comfy enough cruiser with adequate handling but not able to roam far due to the small gas tank and really a single seater only.

W800 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM49-q5kSZ4 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCBcfIoDBsY

(http://www.firstsupercars.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/2011-kawasaki-w800-1.jpg)

This is Kawasaki's answer to the Triumph Bonneville. Kwaka used to sell a W650 years ago but it didn't sell well. Ironically, after they stopped selling it interest in that bike took off and 2nd hand models now fetch a good price. But this is the newer version, with fuel injection that looks like old fashioned carbs. But how was it on the road?

Sitting on this bike the leg position and handlebar position mean a pretty comfy ride for me (remember, I'm 6'2). Twisting the throttle does not see the bike take off from under you, but the acceleration is quite good. Don't expect it to be a sport bike cause it isn't. The handling through the bends was excellent. And I passed quite a few riders through a prolonged set of twists with an overtaking lane. Along the straight stretch I let it sit between 100 and 130 (with an occasional stint into the 140 relm) and it did so effortlessly - not once did the engine feel labored. A fellow testing the mettle on a CB400 passed me doing well over the 130 I was on at the time, only to slow up at the next bends and hold me up - I filled his mirrors. When we stopped he kept looking at this retro bike puzzled how it was able to keep up with him through the bends.

The rear brake is an old fashioned drum brake. And at first this is kind of off putting. But the engine braking is bloody awesome and it all but negates the use of the back brake anyway. Slight rear brake depression with the engine braking and front braking and it pulls up Very well.

The only negative I have for this bike on my brief time was the slight vibration in the mirrors around 90kph. It didn't stop you seeing behind, you could, just not clearly is all (instead of another bike's headlight looking like a small ball of fuzz due to vibes, it looked like a small line). Below this speed and above that speed were fine, just around that speed. Apart from that only negative, this bike was a gem to ride. And at a few thou cheaper than the Triumph, I think Kawasaki is onto a winner. [edit: I just did a quick price check and it seems Triumph have now lowered the price of their entry level Triumph Bonneville a few thousand to compete with the W800's price point.]

In Summary: A good comfy bike with an upright riding position that could be used as a commuter and a weekend ride. It's not a sport bike and doesn't try to be one, so accept it for what it is and this bike will bring a smile to your dial.

Of the two, the W800 would be a good upgrade/crossgrade from a GS500. In fact, it feels somewhat similar in terms of performance but does everything with less effort - 100kph at below 4k rpm, for instance, and 48hp (though have heard figures of 70hp, maybe EU learner regs for lower HP?) compared with the GS500s 47hp but 60nm of torque compared to the GS500s 40nm of torque (note the Triumph Bonneville has 67hp a full 20hp above the w800 but torque that's close to the W800). And dimension-wise, it's Very close to the GS500 even the seat height is the same 790mm.

Michael

Quote from: johnny ro on January 24, 2011, 07:08:31 PM

Next winter I think to buy an older Monster. They are really good looking and fun. Impractical so they cant be the only bike.
   

I thought the same too when I bought my Monster. I kept my GS as my "practical" bike but you will be pretty surprised how versatile they are.  :thumb:

Today I rode the Honda's new naked commuter the NC700. The riding position feel very nice you feel very much in control of the bike. Seat is very comfortable to sit on and you feel very relaxed on the bike. Hand controls take some getting used to the indicator swtich is where the horn is located on the GS so I needed to look a few times to make sure I was cancelling my indicators. The instruments are digital and easy to read and keep track of. Moving onto braking now and the front brake is very good and ispires confidence which I liked. Now onto the ride. I have to say the the ride of the bike is very comfortable, its a bike you can jump straight onto and ride no worries I will say though that to get it to lean over in a corner took some effort but once it is leant over it eagerly eats up any corner you throw at it with ease. Riding over sharp bumps and whatnot the bike absorbed it with ease and did not give me an ounce of curry. Now we move onto the elephant in the room, the engine. First the positive, I can say wow very tourquey I quite liked how well you are thrust foward with a good twist of the wrist. The negative the power and rev range. You need to ride this thing like you drive a car. Within 50m of taking of I was on the rev limiter at 6.5k, this bike needs to be short shifted to get the best out of the torque curve to make it move the way you are used to. Power wise feels the same as the GS but with alot more torque. The engine noise is nothing to write home about either sounds like a big scooter/sewing machine, worse than the GS. In summing up this bike has alot of positive notes about it: ABS, the storage infront, fuel injected, the tourque, the ergonomics of the bike itself, fuel economy, the great feel in the brakes. The negatives: Limited power and rev range, that is what I fear will limit the sales of this bike. As a daily commuter bike if that was to be its only purpose this bike is perfect, but I think that this bike needs to be re aimed at the learner market and only then will it really shine. In Australia there are 2 classes of licence where the classes are seperated by the capacity and power of the bikes that riders can have. When you first get your bike licence you are only allowed bike under 650cc and 150kw/tonne. When a year has elapsed you can progress onto your unrestriced licence and graduate into the world of the R6, R1, and so on. The NC700 is in this catagory of unrestriced bikes, I would say that if the capacity was reduced to 650cc and re designated into the first catagory of bikes (where the GS also sits) than this bike would be a big hit for its price, fuel economy, and versitility. But as it sits now the only people I can see buying it are those who have at least 2 bikes and want this bike as a pure runnabout and cant bear to purchase a scooter.

Because my GS500E was in the shop for 3 weeks, then needing to be worked on again to redo the shop's mistakes, and then being dropped and having oil pressure issues, I went and bought a 2002 Honda 919 (CB900F/Hornet) for 3,300 (naked bikes are super rare here).

(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t469/00sanchez/20120511_135614.jpg)

There's obviously a huge difference in power. Being fuel injected, it as much better throttle response and less finicky. It's another one of those engines that will last forever even if you flog it after it warms up, so they are pretty much the same there.

The main differences are as follows:

The GS has a much better seat. The stock 919 seat is horrible after about 1hr of riding (I usually put about 150 miles on the bike 4/week per day)

The GS is quite a bit lighter. There is about a 100lb difference, and that is a huge difference when backing out of my driveway, a slight incline, or on gravel.

The GS corners better. This may be due to the weight difference and my being used to the GS more; however, the GS begs to be cornered and does it smoothly while the 919 will corner, but feels like it has to be coerced into doing so.

The GS shifts smoother. The 919 likes to clunk down into 1st and up into second, sometimes missing second and going back into neutral. This may not be by design.

The 919 feels more "solid". I feel a lot more comfortable on the 919 at speeds as the GS's front end starts feeling a bit twitchy at 70+mph on the freeway. I always feel like the GS needs a damper while the 919 never feels like that.

The braking on the 919 is much better. The dual front discs make all the difference (the '98 GS has a single front disc).

The 919 is liquid cooled. This is just one less thing to worry about on very hot days (already hitting the 90's) in heavy traffic.

The GS looks better imo. The tank on the Honda protects the thighs from the wind better, but for looks, the GS takes it.

The GS is better for shorter people as the seating position, at least on mine, allows me to be flat foot and raised up off the bike about an inch or two while the 919 allows flat foot only after the suspension has my weight on it with legs spread.

The 919 is much quieter than the GS. I like a quiet bike as I have neighbors that work in the morning (I own my own store, so I am up and riding whenever I feel the desire). I'd always have to roll the GS to the end of the driveway and turn it on there so the noise was only around for a few moments. The only time the 919 makes noise is in 3rd and up at 3-3.8k rpm at 1/2-WOT.

The gas mileage between the two is almost the same. The GS with rejet/lunchbox/victory exhaust gets about 45-55mpg while the 919 will get about 45-50mpg. At twice the engine, there is something to be said about the 919 here.

Overall, I feel a lot more confident on the 919, but I do miss the practicality of the GS's ergonomics and size/weight. The weight, I will eventually get used to. If I weren't a smaller, out of shape guy (5'8" @ 160lbs), I think I would handle the 919 better. The increased power and torque at the bottom end allow for a much more "fun" ride, but I'm positive this will get me into trouble with speeding tickets in the 35mph, small town highway stretches. The 0-60 in ~3.2 seconds over the GS's ~7ish seconds makes me forget to take it easy in the lower speed limit areas. My maturity will kick in, though, once the novelty has worn off (hoping it will anyway :)). I'm glad I relearned on the GS, and Ill recommend the hell out of it for anyone wanting to start biking. It is the absolute perfect beginners bike. It is beautiful. It is easy to work on. However, I couldn't see myself riding it even for commuting anymore because of the 919's almost equal mpg. I'm putting of selling it because I want my wife to learn, and my son is 15, who wants to learn as well. The 500 is the perfect beginners bike, but the 919 is a perfect second bike. There is no way I'd have learned anything on the 919 without dropping it or possibly getting hurt. It's just too much power if you're just learning.

The best thing about the GS500, though, is this community. It makes the GS500 a "no worries" ownership, and there is a bounty of experience, information, and walk-throughs. Watching BaltimoreGS's videos on youtube gave me a lot of confidence to take this puppy apart and do my own work, which I am carrying over to the 919 (stripped the rear tire off, and changing brakes when the package gets here).

Edit: My original love.

(http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t469/00sanchez/20120316_135607.jpg)

Mister along with a few others run 919's or hornets, he likens them to a more powerful GS. But it's probable a case of horses for courses in comparison here but far as I can tell he loves it.

Excellent review Slips! I know a Lot of people are curious about that Honda with it's "where am I in the market place" position. I personally feel it is a little like the Honda DN01 - no real proper place in the market.

If you have some time I'd like to see your thoughts on the Z750 - I think we all know the seat is like a piece of plywood with a tissue on it - but other than that, what you thought of the power, handling, suspension, etc., would be good to read.

Nice 919 Review Sanchez. My review of the 919 is on the previous page - or here http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=52805.msg620464#msg620464

The thing with gear changing is, smoothness can be dependent on the type of oil used. Not to get into a discussion about oil here - cause this thread is about bike reviews not oils - the oil used can make a difference to clunkiness and false neutrals.

Note also, the figures with seat height, are different on the older models. The older models like yours had lower seat heights. And the 919 has so much more torque you could easily put a +1 cog on the front and get better fuel economy without negatively effecting city riding.

Strange you find the GS more comfy than the 919. But it is an example of why I say you MUST be comfortable on the bike. What I find comfy because of my biomechanics is different to someone else. So try them all until you find the one that is most comfy for you.

I've recently ridden a Versys1000 and a Vstrom650 and that review/comparison will be posted here soon.

Michael

Versys 1000 vs VStrom 650

These two bikes were ridden back to back for a roughly 25 minute ride each, along a nice road known and enjoyed for its sweepers. Not only does it give you a pretty good idea how the bike handles from one sweeper to the next, there are a couple of steep hills that really test the bike's torque. Basically, it's a route that I feel enables you to make a good buying decision about the bikes.

What I'll do here is, give my impressions of each bike as I rode them - then - summarize my conclusion about which bike *I* would choose.

Versys1000

(http://i.imgur.com/UIeP0.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/JFEs3.jpg)

Hopping on the bike the first thing you notice is the seat height. This bike is NOT for people with short legs. While me and my 6'2" frame with 34" inseam had no issues with sitting on the bike in a parked (waiting at the lights) mode, other people with shorter legs would struggle. Sure the bike has ABS and other Cool stuff, but this isn't about those gadgets, this is about the Ride and how it felt.

Like all faired bikes the fairing stays straight and the wheel turns. But what makes this Feel a little odd at first is that there is a rather prominent screen in the way. And this kind of disassociates you from the road somewhat. Even though the screen is too thin to do any proper job, it is just enough to remove that usual "I'm on a motorcycle" feeling.

Breaking was good. Acceleration was also good - with a 1000cc engine supposedly retuned from a Z1000 to be more everyday friendly, that is to be expected. Nonetheless, I still felt the need to drop down to 5th to do any kind of overtaking. I also felt that the engine was revving a little high for the speed we were doing. Eg. While my 919 will rev at a smidgeon under 4000rpm at 62mph (100kph) and the GS500 will sit on around 5000 for the same speed, the 1000cc Versys will sit somewhere in the middle, around 4,500. So whatever Kawasaki has done to the cams, gear ratios, compression ratios, fuel injection or whatever, the bike revs higher but without the added Oomph from doing so, while still having good torque. It's an interesting combination.

As soon as we got going I noticed the wind noise coming around the screen. And while it kind of semi protected the rider from wind I found myself wishing the screen just wasn't there so I could feel the wind uninterrupted so I would only have the wind/helmet noise instead of helmet noise As Well As the turbulence around the screen noise - the air going around the screen was noisier than the wind on my helmet.

Handling was quite good. And something newer riders need to be aware of when going to such a bike is, the Height your head is off the road while cornering is greater compared to a GS500. As such, you might Think, "I can lean over more" - until your head is around the same height as it would be while on the GS. But if you did so you would be at a greater lean angle and in danger of lowsiding. And this is what happens - people moving into these bikes often lowside and this is the reason why. But having said that, this bike corners pretty well. I did feel like I didn't quite have as much Feeling/Feedback while cornering what with my semi-isolated impression, and had to make cornering adjustments slightly different, but otherwise the bike performed well and you would get used to this. I could see it doing two up down some long road to a nice country pub with ease.

And while it did have more pull than the GS500, it lacked roll on compared to my 919. Even though the Versys has more hp than the 919, in top gear the feeling of pull just wasn't there.

VStrom 650

(http://i.imgur.com/BnlJd.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/l0OSj.jpg)

Unfortunately they did not have a 1000cc model to ride, nor a 650 Versys, so this comparison will have to suffice.

Hopping on this I notice the screen is more substantial and has a more robust feel about it. It'll be harder for the tank to take a tank bag And camera, but that's not a riding issue. I felt more at home as soon as I sat on this bike too. Whether that is because I already own a Suzuki and this is a Suzuki I do not know. Just that it Felt More Right.

As you accelerate you never feel like you are revving the guts out of the V twin. And the bike quickly gets up to 62mph (100kph) without much fuss about it. You don't get that same feeling of acceleration as the Versys1000, nor anywhere near my 919, but the bike is deceptively quick. And the rev limiter kicks in good, cutting back your power signaling it is time to change Up gears. And while roll on power is not as much as the Versys it is more than adequate to pass/overtake long trucks when needed - the bike never feels like it struggles to get a move on. Nor did I feel the need to change down gears to accomplish any passing or steep hill climbing. In fact, on the steep hill the bike was surprisingly adept at going up it, maintaining speed in 6th gear without any hint of lugging - something to GS500 cannot do in 6th on those particular hills. Oddly, it also revved at around 4,500 for the same speed as the Versys.

Handling is superb. Again, a higher position will see new riders possibly over lean so they Feel their head is the same height off the ground and thus lowside. So if you are considering either bike from a GS500, keep that in mind and instead, take the corners as the same speeds you normally do (that is, if you don't normally scrape pegs) and you'll be fine.

Maneuvering on this bike is a pleasure. It feels way more agile than the Versys did and feels more eager to corner as well. It took less effort to corner the Vstrom than the Versys.

Engine breaking on the Vstrom was far superior to the Versys1000 - which would be fantastic for Pace Riding. And the bike felt more seated and stable in the corners. Whether this was real or because I didn't have that disassociated feeling on the VStrom I do not know. But suffice to say, a bike that makes you Feel is cornering better, is one that you have confidence in, and that is a good thing.

And while the screen did send the wind up to my helmet a small duck down and all was silent. So I'd imagine adjusting the screen height using the provided adjustment spots would help those taller people like myself to avoid the wind noise all together.

Summary

Of the two bikes I preferred the less powerful Vstrom. It felt more comfortable to me, handled better, maneuvered better, had better wind protection without the negative wind noise at the screen, had better engine breaking and felt more responsive on the road as well. I could easily see myself riding this to work as well as on the weekend through the twists or sweepers. And the vibes from the VTwin were nothing to write about. The only thing the Versys did better was quicker acceleration. But that's isn't everything and certainly not enough for me to pick it.

For an Upgrade from the GS500, I feel the 650 Vstrom is the better choice while the Versys1000 is really for the more experienced rider. The VStrom's lighter weight and better handling make it more familiar to GS500 riders and so it is easier to go from one to the other. Provided you can get your head around the extra height issue when cornering you'll have a blast on the unusual looking VStrom.

If I get a lower bike I will lean less because I can sense my head is closer to the ground and reduce my risk of lowsides ~ got it.

Quote from: SAFE-T on May 23, 2012, 04:54:49 AM
If I get a lower bike I will lean less because I can sense my head is closer to the ground and reduce my risk of lowsides ~ got it.

Once you are Used to a bike all bets are off. Things like this are only in the Initial.

Michael

the GS couldn't be more different than my other bikes..

1997 CBR 1100XX (Blackbird)
1998 VTR 1000F (Superhawk 996)
1989 CR250R
..All bought used, restored and modified..

The GS is a much better 'starter bike' for my wife than my
other rides.  I'll probably move her to the superhawk
eventually.

The GS is comfortable and easy to control, but the
maintenance schedule and the unpredictability of
mechanical failures really drives me nuts.

I did get it free though, so all I have to do is get it running
a bit better and I'm good to go!  :D

TJ

Got me a mint '02 FZS1000 with 52k kms
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc280/Affschnozel/IMG_0639.jpg)
Find the differences  :laugh:
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc280/Affschnozel/IMG_0642.jpg)

I'm a compact rider  :) 167cm and about 63kgs and this thing is tall and heavy, seat height 820mm wet weight 231 kgs,
30 mm higher and 40 kgs heavier than GS, taking in account wider seat I'm just about touching the ground with both my feet or can place one firm leg down. On the go weight disappears and this thing maneuvers just as well as GS (it's got wider bars)
but it can't ( or I can't ) zigzag in heavy traffic as briskly. You seat higher so the visibility is much better.
Suspension fully adjustable both ends but is plush for everyday riding thus comfy.
Engine seems and sounds electric and smooth (stock pipe), acceleration is instant and I only use 1/8 of throttle in lower revs,
unlike WOT on GS from stop light to stop light ,which is less fun in the city where GS thrives. Out of town this thing is a rocket and I haven't yet got within minimum of it's capability.
It is more stable in straights and in corners with fattier tires ,wheelbase 60mms longer but steering angle same as GS.
Gearbox is clunkier than GS's smooth box and scary at first but got used to it quick.
Some say that FZ's engine has a lot of mechanical noise but coming from GS it's quiet.
I'm yet getting to know the bike and riding GS faster in some areas cause it feels so light and flickable
but cannot keep them both sadly, so GS is for sale after more than 10 years of proud ownership, a great little bike!
And I'm not saying goodbye  :icon_razz:

I know it's highly subjective but my opinion is that the SV650"S" (at least pre '03 "curvy" model), is a great bike. Perhaps my body was destined for the crunched position, but at 6'0" and about 180lbs, I found the stock setup on my SVS to be the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. And by comfort I mean both body and mind. Both of the GS's I've owned have always felt "unsure" in corners - maybe it's just me, and I'm sure it probably is.

As far as bodily comfort, I didn't care much for the stock seat on either my 97 or my 07 GS. Obviously it was miles ahead of the seat on my '88 KLR650, but still became painful after about 50 miles or so. I'm sure it says something about my particular body that I found the stock seat on my DL1000 V-Strom to be highly uncomfortable as well - despite the fact that people rant and rave about its comfort. I found my hips began to hurt quite a lot after around 80 miles. Handling was okay but I could barely touch the ground on it. Also, all of the weight was very high on the bike which scarcely inspired confidence.

Now, comparing the GS to the other bikes I've owned, I have to say it was somewhere in the middle. If I had it all to do over again I would've kept the KLR650 and had the SV650S as well. Maybe it was just the fact that it was my first street legal bike, but I have a soft spot in my heart for it. There is beauty in simplicity and that's exactly what the KLR650 was: simple. Sure, it wobbled like crazy at anything above 70mph, and sure you'd be better off with a 2x4 for a seat, but it really was a joy to commute on.

Comparing the GS to the SV650S...if you've never ridden anything else, or have owned your GS for a really long time, the first thing you'll notice is how much bigger the bike seems. Even though it weighs about the same, some of that weight does sit higher. It will feel heavier than the GS but you'll quickly get used to it. People complain about the suspension, brakes, and other things about the SV650N/S, however, they've obviously never ridden a first generation GS - it's miles and heaps better. Cornering is a breeze and, especially the older SV's, it never makes you feel like it's going anywhere it shouldn't be - not to dispute another opinion here - it's simply my impression.

I think the best advice you could give anyone is "ride a few and find one you like." I often find myself saying "bikes are like women - some are for you, some are not" and every person is different. Something I find to be pleasing and comfortable another may find to be deplorable.

One last thing to mention: it is my impression that the SV650 would be far too much bike for a "beginner" even though it's often suggested as a "beginner bike." It would be very easy for someone to lose control of the bike if they're not familiar with bikes. Sure, for somebody that's spent their childhood riding dirtbikes it would be no problem - for someone just getting into riding that doesn't have so much as straight-shift vehicle experience? Forget it.

anyone want a 40K bike??  Check out the EBR 1190RS
http://www.erikbuellracing.com/motorcycles/1190rs/

Bike: BMW F800R http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_F800R
It was introduced in 2009 as part of a series of bikes which include the F800S, the dual-sport F800GS & F650GS, and the sport touring F800ST.

Details:

      GS                                     800R
Wt    174.0 kg (383.6 lbs)               199.0 kg (437.8 lbs) (dry weight)
Wlb   1,405 mm (55.3")                   1,520 mm (59.8")
Tnk   20.00 litres (5.28 gallons)        16 litres (4.00 gallons) - this is Usable volume with 4 liters (1 gallon) in reserve
Sth   790 mm (31.1")                     800 mm (31.5")
Pwr                                      87hp (claimed by BMW)
Top                                      Over 200kph (125 mph)

Size: While the bike shows a longer wheel base and taller seat (the seat can be raised to 825mm or lowered to 775mm as a dealer-fit accessory) the bike doesn't physically feel that much bigger to the GS500.

One quite noticeable thing for Me was the handlebars. Which is to say, how my upper body was positioned to grab the handlebars correctly. That is, the handlebars have little upward bend in them from the clamp. Which means a more downward lean for Me to grab them properly. This resulted in an uncomfortable position for my back, which I will cover further on. Apart from that, the bike felt quite manageable despite its heavier weight. A weight which is not noticed at rest or on the go - which tells me the center of gravity must be lower.

Power: With nearly double the power of the GS, yes this bike can get a move on. But the great thing about it is, you never feel the bike is going to take off from under you. The power comes on steady without lurching. This makes it easy to get used to as the GS is a little like this already. So jumping from a GS to this will almost feel right at home.

Sitting at 100kph (63mph) in 6th gear the bike is sitting around 4,000rpm and a twist of the throttle quickly sees you up at 120kph (75) without too much effort at all. The thing with accelerating through the gears though, is that you need to do it quick. No point trying to wind out the gears to 8000 before changing, change at around 5,000 and you'll quickly get to whatever speed you want. And even if you leave the bike in a lower gear (such as sitting in 4th at 100kph (63mph) instead of top) the bike doesn't feel like it is screaming for you to change up.

And leaving it in 3rd for the twisties was no problem. Even when we hit the slow switchbacks I left it in 3rd and the bike's torque pulled it out and up to speed at a satisfactory rate.

In short, the power on this bike is deceptive. It doesn't alert you to its abilities by launching from under you, but it can get you up to speed quite damn fast, without it sounding or feeling like it is doing so.

Suspension: It has adjustable front forks and the rear has adjustable preload and damping. I don't know what the settings were on this bike but the suspension was adequate - it soaked up the bumps good enough and felt solid in the turns and under brakes.

Handling: If you can ride a GS500 you can ride this. While the GS almost corners itself, the BMW F800R takes a little - but not much - effort to get it into a corner. And after a few minutes you won't really notice it and the bike will feel nice and responsive under you. Which is just what you want to instill confidence. Handling is good and the bike does not feel as heavy as it is. My only beef here was with the indicator button. On the GS500 it feels like a click to let you know you have pushed far enough either way, and a click when you turn off the indicator. With the BMW there was nothing to notice. Nothing different pushing left or right to let you know it has reached a turn-on-point, and nothing to let you know it had Clicked off.

Comfort: I find the GS500 comfortable, even though I am 6'2" with a 34" inseam. With the BMW F800R I found the seating itself to be comfortable and my legs did not feel cramped either. - BUT I experienced a lot of discomfort in my back. The handlebars were in such a position that if I sat in my normal posture I would be straight armed, but leaning forward would put the bars Under me. So I was kind of forced to push my lower back towards the rear and hunch, to be able to grab the bars correctly. This was done subconsciously and I only noticed it after my back started aching after a few minutes. After another 45 minutes my back ache was still there but a little less and it made me wish the ride would end so I could get off the darn thing.

For me, the handlebars would need to be rotated up, bar risers put on, or a set of bars like on the GS500 or Honda 919 (which has a greater distance in height between the part of the bar with the clamp and the part with the grips). I also felt the grips were turned in just a little bit too much for Me. To have my entire hand on the grip both wrists would need to be turned out. Otherwise a normal grip approach saw the most grip being done by the outside of the hand. In the cold this meant my braking fingers were not on the heated grips and became numb, which is not good if I needed to use them.

Overall: I think someone looking to upgrade from a GS500 to a BMW F800R would have no problems doing so. The vibrations from the BMW engine were nothing to write home about and were more extreme around 5000rpm but still fine. But for me, I would not get this bike as an alternative to a GS500 due to my level of discomfort. Don't get me wrong, the bike was comfy in the seat and legs area and handled well. It was the posture needed to grab the bars that didn't gel with the way my biomechanics are. Someone else with a shorter torso would probably have no problems. Take one out for a ride and test this yourself.

With ABS and heated grips, the friendliness of the acceleration, smooth gear changes, plenty of torque and good handling, this is definitely a bike worth considering when you feel you want to upgrade.

(http://i.imgur.com/8LZfR.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/thoAz.jpg)

I completely agree with everything said above this bike is my top 2, features such as the tyre pressure sensors, abs, heated grips are nice touches that complete the package. And in terms of rider comfort because I'm slightly shorter than mister my seating position is near perfect for me.

Bikes: BMW F800GS vs F650GS

What I'll do here is, give my impressions of each bike as I rode them - then - summarize my conclusion about which bike I think is the winner. The route the bikes were ridden on can be seen in this video of another ride I did - http://youtu.be/6xQR8pJfsVQ


BMW F800GS

(http://i.imgur.com/QIE2e.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/yckPw.jpg)

While sitting on this bike waiting to depart for the test ride, I could not help but notice how the seat was digging into my inner thighs. Not to the point of cutting off blood flow or anything, but enough to notice and be a tad uncomfortable.

So we take off and I get to see how the bike accelerates onto the highway. It never felt like it wanted to run away from under you, but the acceleration was adequate. And the bike never seemed to be struggling to sit at 120kph (75mph) in top gear and accelerated from there good enough as well.

As we left the highway and headed into the back roads, I felt the front was somehow vague or drifty. I'm not sure if this is due to the feel of spoked wheels, underinflated rear tyre or because the trail is a massive 117mm - a large trail means less responsive steering. I know it wasn't due to being used to the bike I ride then hopping onto this, cause this light drifty feeling lasted the entire time I was on it and I was never able to get fully used to it. It made me a little extra cautious on the bends.

Even though it felt a tad vague, the bike still took the bends well. And the torque meant even a slack gear change and wrong gear for the corner, saw the bike pull its way out with ease.

Comfort wise, I had no negative issues. My butt was comfy, my back did not ache, legs were not cramped, the handlebars were in a good position and all was well there in this very upright riding position. Gear shifts were precise. Engine vibration through the handlebars or pegs was there but not detrimental. And I really enjoyed my time on the bike.

The main negatives I have for it are the blinkers. Unlike almost every bike out there with a single left/right/off switch on the left grip, this has a left button on the left grip and the off and right button on the right grip. I am sure you would get used to it - but - I thought it kind of dumb to be asking the throttle hand to be pushing buttons as well as controlling the throttle. And I never truly got used to this - not that we took a lot of corners which needed to be indicated though.

Also, the wind screen. I'm not sure what BMW are thinking with this thing, but it effectively does nothing. Even ducking down the wind was still hitting me. So... I don't know... partly protect the instrument cluster and then break up the wind so it feel less solid to ride through?


BMW F650GS

(http://i.imgur.com/PFfaf.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/4Y11W.jpg)

This bike is a bit of a sleeper because it has the same engine as the 800GS but it has been computer restricted to be a 650 (the compliance stamp shows it is an F800 engine, while the rear stickers say "650" - see pic below). Unrestrict it and you basically have an 800 for the price of a 650. Of course, there are other differences between the two such as the 800 having upside down forks while the 650 doesn't, 800 having twin brake rotors up front while the 650 has one, and some other things to help justify the price difference. But aside from that, how does it ride?

As soon as we rode out of BMW (leaving the driveway and then turning left and getting onto the highway) I knew this bike was different to the 800. In just those two corners the bike felt more settled on the corners, almost as if it wanted to corner itself. And it felt that way the entire time I was on the bike through the Twists and Goat Track as seen on the video above.

The suspension handled the bumps with ease. And the seat was quite comfortable as I never felt once that I wanted to get off to give the butt a rest.

Acceleration was adequate as well. For a LAM (Learner Approved Motorcycle) it did 80kph (50mph) in 1st gear without sounding like it was going to explode. Even sitting on 100kph (63mph) in 3rd the bike sounded effortless. Accelerating to pass cars/trucks was not as quick as a more powerful bike, but it was more than up to the task. And if you owned one you would soon learn which was the ideal gear to be in for best roll on at a certain speed. But I had no issues as it was.

The throttle wasn't twitchy. And the engine breaking was quite good. Maybe not as good as the VStrom but right up there. And the torque was very Good. Even a gear too high in tight bends didn't bother it. It just powered out and carried on like nothing was wrong. Nice. It was a pleasure to ride this bike. And it sat at roughly 3,500rpm at 100kph (63mph) whereas the GS500 will sit at around 5,000rpm. Very low revving signifying its torque.

Summary

The F650GS is supposed to be the smaller brother / commuter version of the F800GS, whereas the F800GS is the smaller version, and more offroad capable than the 650, of the larger 1200GS. But frankly I doubt people who buy the 800 will ever take it off road. No different than all those four wheel drives that never leave the bitumen.

Handling of the two goes to the 650 hands down. With its 110 front tire and 140 rear it matches the tires of the GS500 (GS500 comes stock with 130 rear but many of us have a 140 rear). When I rode the 650 another fellow was on the 800. And watching him he was hesitant on the bends and he waved me through after I caught him. And it reminded me of my time on the 800. How the cornering was vague and caused hesitation.

Both the 800 and 650 have the same size tanks - 16 liters with 4 in reserve (4 gallon with 1 gallon reserve). BMW suggests a fuel economy of 4.14 liters per 100kms for the 650. If you ride to within 2 liters (half a gallon) of empty you'll have a range of 338km (211 miles). Which is around what I fill up on my GS500 anyway. Meaning, fuel economy is close to the GS500.

Both have adjustable seat heights but in the stock formation the 800's seat is higher than the 650's. Besides the seat, the 650 is also lower to the ground anyway as it is figured it doesn't need the height to clear obstacles cause it's the urban version. I think this lower height helps the bike be more stable and more maneuverable.

Of the two, the 650 was the better handling and more easily ridden by a person upgrading from a Suzuki GS500. It's not a bike to scare you as the throttle was very forgiving. It doesn't have the "launch from under you" feel when it accelerates. But it's still a quick bike nonetheless. And probably one of the easiest bikes to transition into from the GS500. I would never swap my 919 for one, but for a more subtle and still capable upgrade the BMW F650GS is a great choice! (the pic below shows the 650 sticker on the rear plastic while the compliance on the stem shows it's the F800 engine. Unrestrict it and you have the 800cc engine's power without the extra money to acquire it - if you can get it unrestricted for free or very little cost.

(http://i.imgur.com/DihLB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/3vtJM.jpg)

Since writing this review I have since found out next year's models in this range will be the F700GS and F800GS. They will still both have the 800 engine but BMW is remapping the ECU to give the performance of a 700 instead of the 650 and giving the smaller bike twin brake rotors up front. In my opinion this is more a marketing gimmick than anything as the 650 is a quite capable bike and would be a welcome addition to my garage.

Michael

Looking at Husqvarna Nuda 900, or should say reading about. what you guy's think.... test ride's... comparisons ?

Lynn

Quote from: deets on July 04, 2012, 06:24:36 PM
Looking at Husqvarna Nuda 900, or should say reading about. what you guy's think.... test ride's... comparisons ?

Lynn

I tried to get a test ride and the bloke was completely up himself, but I can tell you the engine is the same as the BMW f8 series of bikes with 100cc more, simple reliable engine with 10000km service interval.