When I bought the bike there's been leaks in both the forks. Right now it feels like over any bump the front forks bottom out... How hard is it to replace the seals? Can I just pour the oil in through the top of the forks or do I need a long tube like in the "lazy man" guide? I really don't think there is much oil in there at the moment to drain it all out.
Please recommend an oil weight for me to use.
I dont know about replacing seals, but adding oil is easy. just pour it in the top, but you have to make sure you dont over fill them, follow the directions on the wiki for filling to the correct level. Also use 20w oil (stock is 10w) it will slow the leak and give far superior dampning.
Don't put new oil in without draining the old, or you may end up with more oil in one leg than the other. This will make cornering quite challenging. :D
It's not that hard to remove the forks and replace the seals.
You need the oil that goes in the GSXR or Katana forks after you upgrade to them!
I can't find the DIY on replacing the seals, just how to replace the oil and springs. Can someone tell me how? Also would any cycle shop carry these oils?
Quote from: O.C.D. on June 25, 2010, 06:58:30 AM
You need the oil that goes in the GSXR or Katana forks after you upgrade to them!
gsxr uses 2.5w or 5w oil because they have cartridge forks, dont know about katana.
and yes you can get fork oil at most bike shops.
Leaky seals = oiled brakes! Replace seals. Fork oil level is measured from top with forks collapsed fully and springs out.
prs
Woah woah woah!
If the forks are leaking oil, STOP RIDING THE BIKE. Fork oil is used both for damping, and as a lubricant for the fork bushings. If your forks get too low on oil, you're going to foobar the bushings and possibly the damper rod and fork tubes.
Fork oil will also ruin your front brake pads, which could potentially lead to a crash.
There's a few good posts on how to disassemble the forks. A couple of hints: Use the head of a long 5/8ths inch bolt to hold the damper piston while you loosen the retaining bolt on the bottom of each fork leg. You'll need a pair of vice grips to hold the damper rod, and a deep allen socket to remove the retaining bolt. Once the retaining bolt is removed and the clip retaining the fork seal is out, you can use the fork tube it's self as a slide hammer to drive the seal out of the fork body.
since we're on the topic of fork draining and seal replacement..
i have an 89 and unless i missed it, only my left fork as the drain on bottom. the right fork does not.. where would i drain the right fork tube?
Quote from: pandymai on June 25, 2010, 11:18:52 AM
since we're on the topic of fork draining and seal replacement..
i have an 89 and unless i missed it, only my left fork as the drain on bottom. the right fork does not.. where would i drain the right fork tube?
Take it off the bike and invert it into an appropriate oil receptacle.
Quote from: romulux on June 25, 2010, 11:36:14 AM
Quote from: pandymai on June 25, 2010, 11:18:52 AM
since we're on the topic of fork draining and seal replacement..
i have an 89 and unless i missed it, only my left fork as the drain on bottom. the right fork does not.. where would i drain the right fork tube?
Take it off the bike and invert it into an appropriate oil receptacle.
wanted to avoid pulling the tubes out of the triples but i guess since it's unavoidable.. off they'll go!
later though.. havent been riding for over a month. i need to put in some time before taking another day of wrenching. xD
Just read a couple of write ups, some questions though.
1. How long does the whole job take? removing old oil, putting in new oil and seals.
2. When I take the forks out and dump them out, I need to pump the outer and inner forks to get everything out?
3. How much oil do I put in/how far up(or down) the forks should the oil level be?
4. What do you think caused my oil seals to leak? PO said he replaced them recently before selling to me.
5. Are fork seals universal? should be able to get it at any cycle shop right?
it's possible they damaged the seal when installing. and are you sure the forks are leaking oil or are they just getting dirty?
Quote from: pandymai on June 25, 2010, 12:43:49 PM
it's possible they damaged the seal when installing. and are you sure the forks are leaking oil or are they just getting dirty?
no they are DEFINITELY leaking oil... been so since I got it, now its worse, I bottom out all the time.
Edit: also i always thought you were the same person as pandy, the owner of the site lol.
nope. sorry. not pandy =P
and if that's the case, the seals were probably damaged when they were installed. and yes, you should avoid riding because oil on your brakes is something you dont want happening.
i'll be swapping my fork seals eventually too. just havent gotten around to it.
Quote from: nhanxsolo on June 25, 2010, 12:41:31 PM
4. What do you think caused my oil seals to leak? PO said he replaced them recently before selling to me.
What he Said he what he Did are two different things. Keep in mind, it pays to be circumspect about what the intended seller says to you - remember that they want your money, not the item.
Without Seeing the forks there is no Real way to know if the seals were damaged while actually being replaced - or - there is some rust spots (or damage) on the forks to make nice cuts through the seals. Chances are also, IF the seals were actually replaced the dirty cruddy oil was not and something in the oil damaged the seals too.
Michael
Quote from: pandymai on June 25, 2010, 11:18:52 AMi have an 89 and unless i missed it, only my left fork as the drain on bottom. the right fork does not.. where would i drain the right fork tube?
Are you talking about the fork cylinder bolts, located at the bottom of the fork? If so, that bolt is *not* a drain plug. It holds your damping rods in place, and if you loosen it, the only way to tighten it back down is to disassemble the entire fork. Also, you should use a torque wrench; it's sealed with a copper washer and there's pressure on the fluid behind that bolt. The fork cylinder bolt is a possible leak point.
The correct way to service the forks is to remove them from the bike, drain them, flush them, and re-install.
Quote from: nhanxsolo on June 25, 2010, 12:41:31 PM
Just read a couple of write ups, some questions though.
1. How long does the whole job take? removing old oil, putting in new oil and seals.
2. When I take the forks out and dump them out, I need to pump the outer and inner forks to get everything out?
3. How much oil do I put in/how far up(or down) the forks should the oil level be?
4. What do you think caused my oil seals to leak? PO said he replaced them recently before selling to me.
5. Are fork seals universal? should be able to get it at any cycle shop right?
Someone with a lot of experience could change the fluid in an hour or two. If it's your first time, expect to spend most of an afternoon if you don't have to order any parts, or run into any road blocks. If you decide to perform the service, you're welcome to PM me with questions.
Overall, the difficulty is lower than a valve adjustment.
yes the damping rod bolt. one of the how-to's shows to pop that off to help drain the fork and to disassemble the forks to do a complete clean and change =P
maybe i WILL just take the forks off and flip them to drain. then disassemble to swap the seals. again, something for another day
Quote from: nhanxsolo on June 25, 2010, 12:41:31 PM
Just read a couple of write ups, some questions though.
1. How long does the whole job take? removing old oil, putting in new oil and seals.
2. When I take the forks out and dump them out, I need to pump the outer and inner forks to get everything out?
3. How much oil do I put in/how far up(or down) the forks should the oil level be? 375-385mL
4. What do you think caused my oil seals to leak? PO said he replaced them recently before selling to me.
5. Are fork seals universal? should be able to get it at any cycle shop right?
bump for answers.
2. yes pump them, then put in some thin cheap fluid and pump them empty again to make sure you get all the stuff out of the bottom.
4. probobly installed incorrectly
5. dont think so
Ok, about to buy these.
Seals:
http://cheapcycleparts.com/products/218387-leakproof-seals-7239-forks-front-ends-standard-leak-proof-fork-seals
Oil:
http://cheapcycleparts.com/products/219132-bel-ray-94850bt1lc-fork-fluid-fork-oil-20w-1-liter
Anyone have any experience with either brands of products? Anything else I may need for the job/make the job easier?
Other than taking my forks apart is there a way to tell if I have aftermarket springs in my bike. I have an '04 with 17,000 and I've never had my bike bottom out and it handles quite well.
Mary
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on June 27, 2010, 11:10:47 PM
Other than taking my forks apart is there a way to tell if I have aftermarket springs in my bike. I have an '04 with 17,000 and I've never had my bike bottom out and it handles quite well.
Mary
you dont have to take them apart so much as.. pop the bike up on the center stand. loosen ONE fork's triple clamps. then unscrew the fork cap. make sure to go slow and careful as it could bounce out. as long as you only open one fork, the bike wont dip or drop down because the other fork will still be compressed. once you open one fork, pull out the spacer. the stock spacer is probably about 8 inches long or something ridiculous like that. if yours is anywhere between .5-1.5 inches than you probably have aftermarket springs.
You only need to loosen the upper triple on one side, and then, you only loosen it so that you can get the fork caps off without damaging the threads.
Toogoofy317,
If I were you, I wouldn't worry so much about whether or not you have aftermarket springs. What I would do is measure the static and rider sag to make sure that you have the correct springs.
Start by identifying the fully extended length of your forks. Put the bike on it's center stand, and measure the distance between the fork body and the lower triple clamp.
To measure static sag:
Take the bike off the center stand, and have someone hold the bike upright. Measure the distance between the fork body and the lower triple clamp. Subtract this measurement from the fully extended length of your forks. This value is the static sag.
IIRC, for a street bike, 10-20mm is a good static sag value.
To measure rider sag:
Sit on the bike, and try to put all of your weight on the bike (a front wheel chock would be ideal here...) Have an assistant measure the distance between the fork body and the lower tripple clamp. Subtract this value from the fully extended length of your forks.
If I recall correctly, 30-40mm is a good value for rider sag.
- If you have enough rider sag, but too little static sag, it means you have too much preload on the forks bike, and that you need need stiffer springs.
- If you have too much rider sag, but not enough static sag it means you need stiffer springs, and perhaps a touch less preload.
- If you have too little rider sag, and enough static sag, it means you need softer springs, and perhaps more pre-load (not going to happen on a GS, unless you buy a bike modified for a heavy rider.)
If static and rider sag are in the correct range, your springs are perfect.
Wow thanks so much for the specifics guys! :bowdown:
Mary
You don't need special fork oil, I used regular 15w40 that I had laying around and it worked great. The forks will never get hot, so the first viscosity number is all you need worry about.
Hi all,
Sorry, Eric, but you are wrong on this. :) You've had 49 whole posts and you are an expert on fork maintenance? :)
One does need to use real fork oil for the forks. Fork oil has special moly lubricants that help keep seal stiction minimized.
I would never recommend using multi-weight engine oil in the forks.
Don't just use whatever you have laying around in the garage.
That's lazy.
I used to buy Kal-gaard Fork Oil, but can't find it anymore. Belray or PJ1 are fine fork oils.
I run 10 weight or 15 weight.
And to the original poster:
And NEVER use thicker oil to try to slow down a leak like someone else wrote.
Just fix the forks, replace the seals, and do it right.
Oh, another thing, "Leakproof" seasl don't work.
Go with OEM Suzuki seals.
Fork seals are not universal. There are different sizes for every fork.
Good luck,
Trwhouse
Quote from: Eric_in_OR on June 30, 2010, 05:37:32 AM
You don't need special fork oil, I used regular 15w40 that I had laying around and it worked great. The forks will never get hot, so the first viscosity number is all you need worry about.
QuoteAnd NEVER use thicker oil to try to slow down a leak like someone else wrote.
I did not say that as a fix, rather as a temporary band-aid until the seals are replaced. his forks were very low and he was going to put fluid in, so I suggested 20w just to slow the leak and give better/safer damping until he fixes the seals. sorry about the confusion :cheers:
No problem, and thanks for the clarification. :)
We're good. :)
Trwhouse
Quote from: Eric_in_OR on June 30, 2010, 05:37:32 AM...The forks will never get hot...
Spoken like someone who's never ridden at track speeds on cold forks. :icon_lol:
Fork oil definitely heats up. On the GS, the right viscosity fork oil is way too thick when cold.
I wish I could get 25w oil sometimes maybe even 30w, 20w is far better than stock 10w but its still soft. then again I still have stock springs.
You're really better off installing stiffer springs - I'm sure you could find a pair for less than $100. Thick oil will make the suspension feel firmer, but you'll still have the same cornering clearance issues, and your bike won't track as well over rough surfaces.
Did you replace the fork seals yet?
I've just done the job and I might help.
I plan to write a howto.
We've got some good detailed write-ups on this but pics are a plus...I was planning to snap a few but the job was a little messy.
Quote from: marc on July 04, 2010, 03:33:21 PM
Did you replace the fork seals yet?
I've just done the job and I might help.
I plan to write a howto.
Not yet, I am actually looking to upgrade. Had a few interests in the bike, but if it doesn't sell soon I'm gonna keep it for now and do the swap. I may just do it anyway even if I sell it just to learn. Either way, insterested in your DIY! Make sure you get pictures for us.