I posted a while back that I had unexpectedly gotten a increase in mileage by switching over to E3 plugs. It took very little time for detractors to take exception to the validity of my data. Well that trip I got 57 mpg riding 2 up (my wife and I) where I had been getting 50 or so on trips taken over the exact same roads. My speedo is broken and I don't check mileage every day, only on long trips that usually include my wife. Well We just went 508 miles in 3 days riding 2 up and used 8.9 gallons of fuel. That works out to 57 mpg, again. The mileage was measured on a Magellan 2000 GPS and double checked with a Tom Tom. The fuel was put into the bike with me on it and the level of the fuel in the tank was the same every fill up. Believe it or not these plugs have given my 06 GS500F a significant boost in fuel economy.
Quote from: lilwoody on July 25, 2010, 09:46:25 PM
I posted a while back that I had unexpectedly gotten a increase in mileage by switching over to E3 plugs. It took very little time for detractors to take exception to the validity of my data. Well that trip I got 57 mpg riding 2 up (my wife and I) where I had been getting 50 or so on trips taken over the exact same roads. My speedo is broken and I don't check mileage every day, only on long trips that usually include my wife. Well We just went 508 miles in 3 days riding 2 up and used 8.9 gallons of fuel. That works out to 57 mpg, again. The mileage was measured on a Magellan 2000 GPS and double checked with a Tom Tom. The fuel was put into the bike with me on it and the level of the fuel in the tank was the same every fill up. Believe it or not these plugs have given my 06 GS500F a significant boost in fuel economy.
Hardly a scientific test, however.
But I could make the case that your plugs are ruining your gas mileage, as I get 66 MPG on the stock factory plugs. I have run the same course, (160 miles) every Saturday and every Sunday for 6 weeks now, and the mileage is 66 every time!
Cookie
Thanks for the info woody. That's one more data point. It would be nice to get the numbers for each fill-up, as that would give an indication of the spread of the data. But I know that's tough to do when your speedometer is broken.
Quote from: twocool on July 26, 2010, 04:14:57 AM
But I could make the case that your plugs are ruining your gas mileage,
No, you can't.
Can Too!
Your turn Paulie.
Ok, I was short with my last post because I was using my phone and posting sux with that.
I should have said that with the facts Cookie put forth, he didn't make the case. He just as well could have said that using a Magellan GPS receiver ruined woody's mileage. However, I would be interested in real debate about E3 sparkplugs hurting or helping fuel mileage.
Quote from: Paulcet on July 26, 2010, 06:58:13 AM
Thanks for the info woody. That's one more data point. It would be nice to get the numbers for each fill-up, as that would give an indication of the spread of the data. But I know that's tough to do when your speedometer is broken.
Quote from: twocool on July 26, 2010, 04:14:57 AM
But I could make the case that your plugs are ruining your gas mileage,
No, you can't.
Yes I can....my plugs yield 66 mpg his, 57........Proof beyond question!!!
But my conclusion is lacking in the scientific method just as much as his conclusion.
Fuel mileage is dependent on MANY MANY factors,
driving style
wind
humidity
air density
temperature
hills of flat
tire temp
tire pressure
I could go on and on.........
Changing brand of plugs is not conclusive..........we the old plugs, well "old"? Were they gapped correctly? were they fouled? correct heat range? etc.......
To conclude that one brand of spark plug gives better gas mileage over another you would have to run a series of tests, with many samples of each mfgr's plug, same gap, same heat range, etc..........you would have to remove ALL of the other variables.........
Sorry, just putting in new plugs and running a course once does not cut it!
But then again, "50% of this stuff is 90% mental"
If you "think" a certain brand of plugs gives better mileage, then go for it! If it makes you happy, that is all that really matters!
Some famous guy said something like this quote:
"People are quick to believe whatever they fear or desire."
Cookie
Quote from: Paulcet on July 26, 2010, 09:16:44 AM
Ok, I was short with my last post because I was using my phone and posting sux with that.
I should have said that with the facts Cookie put forth, he didn't make the case. He just as well could have said that using a Magellan GPS receiver ruined woody's mileage. However, I would be interested in real debate about E3 sparkplugs hurting or helping fuel mileage.
Right, you got my point exactly.............many, many other factors could have contributed to Woodie's different mileage readings.............OTHER THAN SPARK PLUGS!!!
This is why we have developed the "scientific method"..........to prove out anecdotal evidence.
Cookie
The whole idea and primary advantage with using the iridium plugs is durability and longevity, you don't buy a sport bike for gas milage, you do it for the fun factor, and ease of maintenance is a plus. If people on here cared about gas milage they'd get a moped, and they wouldn't be installing 14 tooth sprockets on their GS. In my opinion the whole gas milage argument is a waste of time.
Quote from: ojstinson on July 26, 2010, 09:33:47 AM
The whole idea and primary advantage with using the iridium plugs is durability and longevity, you don't buy a sport bike for gas milage, you do it for the fun factor, and ease of maintenance is a plus. If people on here cared about gas milage they'd get a moped, and they wouldn't be installing 14 tooth sprockets on their GS. In my opinion the whole gas milage argument is a waste of time.
E3 plugs are not iridium, they're copper.
also, if you increase the efficiency of the engine (through plugs, compression, timing ect.) you can get better milage AND more power.
lastly if you wanted a real sport bike you wouldn't have a gs500, don't get me wrong I love mine but I do wish for a more sport oriented bike. with more power, real ground clearance, and wider tires, most people with a gs want a compromise of power-to-efficiency. which the gs has in spades.
Ok Einstein show me a link that proves iridium plugs have no iridium in their composition. The term sportbike is relative, compared to a Honda Nighthawk 250 it is a sportbike, and I never said these plugs weren't more efficient and didn't get better milage, I said that isn't the main reason they were developed, it was a side benefit and big selling point ---whether it was true or not.
Quote from: ojstinson on July 26, 2010, 10:46:41 AM
Ok Einstein show me a link that proves iridium plugs have no iridium in their composition. The term sportbike is relative, compared to a Honda Nighthawk 250 it is a sportbike, and I never said these plugs weren't more efficient and didn't get better milage, I said that isn't the main reason they were developed, it was a side benefit and big selling point ---whether it was true or not.
Do you have any more obscure "facts" to yank out of your ass, or is that about it?
Iridium plugs have iridium. His claim was that E3 plugs are not iridium, which is true. They're not even platinum.
They're copper surrounded by nickel.
derp
Still waiting for that link. I don't know what you're talking about, I'm talking about Iridium Plugs-----Why are people paying 16 dollars for a tiny piece of nickel plated copper?
If you're referring to plain old E-3 plugs, I would say that's pretty much of a hoax. A fat spark is a fat spark is a fat spark, you can get that from pretty much any spark plug.
http://green.autoblog.com/2007/10/21/dont-count-on-e3-spark-plugs-to-save-you-money-on-gas/ (http://green.autoblog.com/2007/10/21/dont-count-on-e3-spark-plugs-to-save-you-money-on-gas/)
Jesus, people debating Spark Plugs....Whats next, debating various oil types and viscosities?
I dont think there is any gain to be had from different plugs on a relatively stock vehicle, but on a heavily modified one there sure are benefits, mostly due to gapping and heat range, not the composition. platinum and iridium last longer than copper, that is the benefit.
And ojstinson, I was only saying that E3 plugs are not iridium, so your old statement
QuoteThe whole idea and primary advantage with using the iridium plugs is durability and longevity, you don't buy a sport bike for gas milage, you do it for the fun factor, and ease of maintenance is a plus. If people on here cared about gas milage they'd get a moped, and they wouldn't be installing 14 tooth sprockets on their GS. In my opinion the whole gas milage argument is a waste of time.
want valid because the conversation was about E3 plugs, NOT iridium.
Quote from: Fry on July 26, 2010, 12:16:38 PM
Jesus, people debating Spark Plugs....Whats next, debating various oil types and viscosities?
use dino 5W fork oil in the motor its the bezt! :icon_lol:
Quote from: ojstinson on July 26, 2010, 09:33:47 AM
The whole idea and primary advantage with using the iridium plugs is durability and longevity, you don't buy a sport bike for gas mileage, you do it for the fun factor, and ease of maintenance is a plus. If people on here cared about gas mileage they'd get a moped, and they wouldn't be installing 14 tooth sprockets on their GS. In my opinion the whole gas mileage argument is a waste of time.
I gotta agree about the waste of time..........But I did buy a gs 500 partly because of the mileage......It gets better than a Ninja 500 for example......I am delighted that I am getting 66 MPG roughly double what my car gets....I drive and commute quite a bit, and it does add up, at least it matters to me.....My 125 scooter got 70 mpg and my 250 Honda got about 80.........GS 500 is a lot more bike for about same operating costs
But it is still in general terms.......57, 60, 66 MPG are all in the same ballpark, I'm not worried about a few %
I have a friend with a 1400 Ninja...when he is "on" it gets like 13 MPG........Not the bike for me!
Now all that being said, I just have to laugh about all these semi-scam deals with special plugs, air twisters, pills for the gas tank etc..........
I went to the web site for those plugs.....let me tell you those guys are true experts, geniuses..
In:
MARKETING
Psychology
Legal profession
Not big in science , however!!
There's a sucker born every minute!!
Cookie
Quote from: twocool on July 26, 2010, 04:14:57 AM
Quote from: lilwoody on July 25, 2010, 09:46:25 PM
Hardly a scientific test, however.
But I could make the case that your plugs are ruining your gas mileage, as I get 66 MPG on the stock factory plugs. I have run the same course, (160 miles) every Saturday and every Sunday for 6 weeks now, and the mileage is 66 every time!
Cookie
See if you had a real girl to ride on the back with you you'd understand that a GS is weighed sensitive and loses considerable fuel economy when riding 2 up. I have yet to check the economy with these plugs in it with just my lil old self on it but will one day. Most of the longer trips are made with my wife, so that is what I have to compare it to.
GS500 a sport bike? A R6, a GSX, a CBR, yea those are sport bikes. A GS is a entry level, very adequate, comfortable, economical, sporty bike that is a ball to ride and a great communtier but any bike that in stock configuration struggles to break a buck isn't a sport bike. Maybe 40 years ago it would have been a sport bike but not now.
so i get this straight..
original poster has his mileage increase with the use of these plugs, under similar conditions as his original stock plugs.
people are responding about how their bike gets better mileage, so the plugs arent really working for the original poster. said people have also verified that there are many different variables that affect mileage.
if that's correct so far.. than what i dont get is why this is trying to sound like a heated issue. the original poster got an increase in mileage that works for him. he's giving his review of a product that he has been testing in comparison to what he originally used (stock plugs) what's the point of trying to bash. if the plugs do nothing for your own bike, or you dont like that company, or whatever other reason you have to put your opinion in, than that's valid. but unless youre riding HIS bike, under HIS conditions, how can you try and tell him (the guy getting better mileage that he's actually paid attention to over time) that what he's using isnt working?
B and S Twin, you are correct sir, we were talking about two different animals here---My error!
Quote from: ojstinson on July 26, 2010, 02:33:27 PM
B and S Twin, you are correct sir, we were talking about two different animals here---My error!
:cheers:
Quote from: black and silver twin on July 26, 2010, 12:34:09 PM
Quote from: Fry on July 26, 2010, 12:16:38 PM
Jesus, people debating Spark Plugs....Whats next, debating various oil types and viscosities?
use dino 5W fork oil in the motor its the bezt! :icon_lol:
I cant believe no-one said anything about this^^^^^
ready FIGHT!
:angel:
Quote from: black and silver twin on July 26, 2010, 02:38:06 PM
Quote from: ojstinson on July 26, 2010, 02:33:27 PM
B and S Twin, you are correct sir, we were talking about two different animals here---My error!
:cheers:
Quote from: black and silver twin on July 26, 2010, 12:34:09 PM
Quote from: Fry on July 26, 2010, 12:16:38 PM
Jesus, people debating Spark Plugs....Whats next, debating various oil types and viscosities?
use dino 5W fork oil in the motor its the bezt! :icon_lol:
I cant believe no-one said anything about this^^^^^
ready FIGHT!
:angel:
whole milk all the way?
Its like Politics and Religion, you do not speak of those topics in public, it's a no win situation/argument.
Anyway, which is better, Synthetic or Dino? :cheers:
i like dino nuggets but i think theyre pretty much synthetic anyways. mmmmm super highly processes chicken bits..
Quote from: pandymai on July 26, 2010, 02:18:03 PM
so i get this straight..
original poster has his mileage increase with the use of these plugs, under similar conditions as his original stock plugs.
people are responding about how their bike gets better mileage, so the plugs arent really working for the original poster. said people have also verified that there are many different variables that affect mileage.
if that's correct so far.. than what i dont get is why this is trying to sound like a heated issue. the original poster got an increase in mileage that works for him. he's giving his review of a product that he has been testing in comparison to what he originally used (stock plugs) what's the point of trying to bash. if the plugs do nothing for your own bike, or you dont like that company, or whatever other reason you have to put your opinion in, than that's valid. but unless youre riding HIS bike, under HIS conditions, how can you try and tell him (the guy getting better mileage that he's actually paid attention to over time) that what he's using isnt working?
Because his conclusion, after only one run is totally unfounded and unscientific. Yes the fuel mileage was different (better)......but there are a hundred possibilities as to why, and brand of plugs is one of the most unlikely....
How can he attribute better mileage to plugs, and I can't? (Retorical question) Because neither mileage is taken is a scientific controlled experimental way!!!
Also, if you go the the website for these plugs it is the same promotional semi scam hype that we have seen since the automobile and motorcycle have been invented.........filled with hollow claims, and junk science........
Funny that Champion, Autolite, NGK, etc never thought of putting on a goofy electrode on their spark plugs, but these guys, man are they smart, smarter than all of the engineers and scientists at all of those other companies......soon everyone will have these plugs. They even claim that they will stop global warming! It is our patriotic duty to buy these plugs!!!!
But there is always a market out there for this stuff, just look at TV info-mercials, just snake oil sales with a different presentation.........
But this is just my opinion........
Cookie
Seems there's a communications problem or a comprehension problem here. This post is about this last ride, in it I mention that there was another ride where I got the same results the total miles rode on there 2 trips was over 750 miles with 57 mpg being the results on both rides. Do a search. The control was at least 4 rides down to Key West with a total of at least 1000 miles traveled on E10 gas, with stock plugs, 2 up, with a equal luggage load and 50 to 52 MPG being the economy realized on those trips. Short of leaving my wife at home and having a EPA pin head ride bit(h I'm not sure how much "proof" some of you want. I tell you what, don't use the plugs, don't believe anything I have said and what ever you do don't accept that anyone other than yourself is capable of reaching any data worthy of being posted here. Anyone else if you want to use the plugs their only 6 bucks a pop and in my book well worth it. I'm going to throw 8 of them in the Roadmaster and 8 more in the Jeep I just haven't got around to it yet. One thing surely though, those results will be kept to myself.
Quote from: lilwoody on July 26, 2010, 07:37:12 PM
Seems there's a communications problem or a comprehension problem here. This post is about this last ride, in it I mention that there was another ride where I got the same results the total miles rode on there 2 trips was over 750 miles with 57 mpg being the results on both rides. Do a search. The control was at least 4 rides down to Key West with a total of at least 1000 miles traveled on E10 gas, with stock plugs, 2 up, with a equal luggage load and 50 to 52 MPG being the economy realized on those trips. Short of leaving my wife at home and having a EPA pin head ride bit(h I'm not sure how much "proof" some of you want. I tell you what, don't use the plugs, don't believe anything I have said and what ever you do don't accept that anyone other than yourself is capable of reaching any data worthy of being posted here. Anyone else if you want to use the plugs their only 6 bucks a pop and in my book well worth it. I'm going to throw 8 of them in the Roadmaster and 8 more in the Jeep I just haven't got around to it yet. One thing surely though, those results will be kept to myself.
Well, this is a perfect example of how companies like that can prey on people like you.........
So now were up to 4 rides, or whatever, but you do not under the scientific method, and that for a "control" then a "test" ALL parameters must be the same, and only one variable changed at a time...........
It has been shown on this group that the GS 500 can get anywhere from 13 MPG (racing) to 70 MPG (driving like and old lady)
Trust me, spark plugs is not the reason!
Cookie
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-external-engine/1247502-e3-spark-plugs-opinions.html
The internet is full of reports of these plugs RUINING the performance of cars, and realizing a scam when they see one! People trying them and then quickly swithcing back to "normal" plugs.
Cookie
'splain me this ricky!
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?p=41612636
Cookie(http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?p=41612636)
Quote from: twocool on July 27, 2010, 04:26:54 AM
'splain me this ricky!
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?p=41612636
Cookie(http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?p=41612636)
Spark knock, the E3 website says that the plugs have a longer nose to get the spark further out into the combustion chamber. when the nose becomes longer it retains heat more, which if the engine has been modified or is just real lean from the factory, will cause detonation (spark knock).
Quote from: twocool on July 27, 2010, 02:56:39 AM
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-external-engine/1247502-e3-spark-plugs-opinions.html
The internet is full of reports of these plugs RUINING the performance of cars, and realizing a scam when they see one! People trying them and then quickly swithcing back to "normal" plugs.
Cookie
Don't use the plugs scooter. I know 12 bucks is a lot of money to some people and a bit much to try something new. I stumbled on them and tried them on a whim. Now I know how they worked for me you'll never know if they will work for you. You throw around this whole "scientific method" thing but when it all said and done, I have used them in the real world and compared them to real world results from the past. You have bashed me and them with nothing but conjecture.
Woody,
Thanks for sharing your results.
Michael
Quote from: lilwoody on July 27, 2010, 09:55:27 AM
Quote from: twocool on July 27, 2010, 02:56:39 AM
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-external-engine/1247502-e3-spark-plugs-opinions.html
The internet is full of reports of these plugs RUINING the performance of cars, and realizing a scam when they see one! People trying them and then quickly swithcing back to "normal" plugs.
Cookie
Don't use the plugs scooter. I know 12 bucks is a lot of money to some people and a bit much to try something new. I stumbled on them and tried them on a whim. Now I know how they worked for me you'll never know if they will work for you. You throw around this whole "scientific method" thing but when it all said and done, I have used them in the real world and compared them to real world results from the past. You have bashed me and them with nothing but conjecture.
Woody.....whether you know it or not, or will admit it or not, you fell for yet another automotive scam. The funny thing is that people who are the type to fall for scams, will almost always defend the scam.........that's the beauty of the "perfect scam".........Also the people who get scammed will always make the whistle blower out to be the bad guy, and the scammer out to be the good guy.........human nature...........funny though....
There were the good ole "splitfire plugs" years ago, this is just a reincarnation of them.
Just 10 minutes of internet research will show that these e3 plugs are not anything special......just $2 plugs with a "gimmick" and costing $12..........Some people had serious problems......... Most tried them and went back to major brand.
I just hope others on this group will not fall for the scam........
Let us know how those plugs are doing in like 7000 miles or so????
Cookie
PS, I don't mind paying for quality.........plugs in my airplane cost about $29 each, and there's 8 of 'em for 4 cylinders.......oh yeah, they're "Champion".....
Why are you arguing over $5 to $10?
It's kind of petty.
Quote from: ver4 on July 27, 2010, 06:00:12 PM
Why are you arguing over $5 to $10?
It's kind of petty.
No that's not the argument..........the argument is whether these so called "magic" spark plugs will actually increase fuel mileage...........and that such claims need to be proven with some tests which remove the many variables which can effect fuel mileage......
then I am trying to take the discussion further, into the psychology of scams.........
Cookie
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/gas-mileage/1802932
Here is some scientific testing of seven miracle devices...............Everyone makes claims similar to the e3 claims.......
Hmmmmmm....
Cookie
Let it go skippy and go fly your plane to give a daym land. Good we get it, I'm a sucker and you are the savior of all who may be tainted by my misgivings. I'm convinced because I saw results with my own data and thought I'd share it. You're convinced because you read it on the internet.
Quote from: lilwoody on July 27, 2010, 09:01:51 PM
Let it go skippy and go fly your plane to give a daym land. Good we get it, I'm a sucker and you are the savior of all who may be tainted by my misgivings. I'm convinced because I saw results with my own data and thought I'd share it. You're convinced because you read it on the internet.
Fair enough lily
Cookie
Ok, good, now it's time for you two to give each other a big hug and have a beer with the president on the west lawn.
Quote from: ojstinson on July 28, 2010, 09:26:11 AM
Ok, good, now it's time for you two to give each other a big hug and have a beer with the president on the west lawn.
LMAO!