Hello There,
I road an '07 GS500f today and think it could be a good first bike for my 5'9" 140lb neewbee wife. She's a bit timid, but eager to start riding motorcycles. (Me: I've been on two wheels most of my life. Current ride: Ducati Monster 696 - love it.)
I have a couple of concerns about the way the newer GS500's are built:
1. The carbs and manual choke[/b]. How finicky are they? I understand how they work, and have experience using them - but most importantly, she does not. Warm-up time is not that big a deal in my book, but flooding the carb when she loses patience and uses too much throttle to get it to start, could be frustrating for both of us. I am dreading that panicked call when she can't get the thing started. Are these GS500's pretty reliable starters if the bike's systems are in good shape and one follows correct start-up procedures?
From what I remember about manual choke engines, if you either A) use too much throttle upon start up or, B) mistakenly use choke on an already warm engine, the carb can flood and it won't start. Fixes are either, A) wait and try again or, B) push the choke in, open the throttle all the way and crank the engine over 3-5 times for 5-10 seconds each (to "clear the carb") and try again (half-choked). If this is not successful, you wait and try again. And again. And again. (Uh, why am I even considering this bike for my wife? :dunno_black:)
What have been your worst experiences with the choke? What was the fix? How often do the carbs need cleaning? How much does that cost? (Not my area of expertise, BTW.)
Note: We live in temperate Oregon, but she will likely commute on it in our cooler Fall & Spring weather (40-50F). It will be garaged at home, but left outside during her work day.
2. The Manual Fuel Switch[/b]. Sure, I understand as long as you re-fuel before you need Reserve - it's a non-issue. But shaZam! happens. So, what? You have to actually pull-over and switch to Reserve if you go too far, but maybe use PRI mode (Prime) if the thing's totally starved of gas and won't start? (Then, switch to Reserve once re-started?) Jeeze, another idiosyncrasy of a GS... Any BAD experiences with this here? i.e. hard-to-restart, flooding, etc. (Reliability & ease of use are top considerations...)
While I'm old-school and have experience, patience, and confidence in older fueling systems... she only knows the ease of fuel injected engines, gas guages and reserve fuel lights. I simply want her to enjoy her first experience, not find excuses to stop riding. I can't seem to find any reliable entry level bikes out there with fuel injection. (By reliable & entry-level, I mean low-mileage, post-2005 and sub-500cc.
I think a bike like the GS500f would be a great first experience. It's light enough to not be intimidating; powerful enough to cruise at 60mph without ringing it out; has enough low-end torque to be forgiving; has a fairing to protect from cold & bugs; and is a bit more substantial than, say, the Honda Rebel. But after testing one, I'm worried about the Manual Choke mostly.
FWIW, the only Fuel Injected choices I've seen that meet our criteria are: the new-to-the-USA, Suzuki TU250 (too expensive right now as they're none on the used market yet); and the Honda CB600 Hornet (tried one, but we weren't ready - it's since sold.)
Responses appreciated!
Jason
I think for a timid first-time rider, the close to 400lbs of the GS will be a bigger problem than any fueling issue.
She might build confidence much better on something like a cheap used TW200. Waaaay more forgiving, I would think. You can always move up later and you'll recoup whatever you pay for it.
It's 100lbs (280lbs wet) lighter and at least as inexpensive as a GS500. They're widely available used.
You're right that the TU250 would be a great choice, too. It's an awesome little bike for anyone (I'd like one).
The Ninja 250 is another outstanding choice -- it's fuel injected and smaller.
As far as the choke and how finicky it is? I put the choke on, start the bike, and ride away. Riding = warm up time. You don't touch the throttle to start. There's really no issue here. You won't flood it. If you do, it's not hard to solve.
As far as running out of gas and switching to prime, I did that last weekend on the highway going 75mph. I just pulled to the side and switched it to reserve while it was sputtering at 50 mph, then it picked right back up and I merged back in.
Let me reiterate and clarify what I mean about the weight.
I'm male, 24, 175 lbs.
If I get on a little 200 or 250cc bike and flip it around at low speeds, it's incredibly easy.
I get back on my GS500 and it feels like a bus. I'm used to the weight of the 500 and have no problem with it -- neither would you, but we both have riding time under our belts.
That 100lbs. is night and day, and I'm bigger than your wife. If she tries it out and thinks she can handle it, that's great.
But the smaller you start her, the faster she'll gain confidence and skill and with less risk of dropping it.
I agree with Rom on the easy start. It does like the choke (a lot) but on mine if it's choked it will start I mean immediately! No throttle needed to start it and I don't touch it while starting. You won't hear the starter turn it but one crank and she is running. Also agree on the fuel selector. Quite simple to just reach down and his the res and keep on moving. Wouldn't be a great idea on the fly for a new rider but in time no biggie.
I don't think the GS is a bad starter bike but I haven't looked at the alternatives that are smaller/lighter. My wife learned to ride on a GS 500 and she can handle it quite well. She is 5'9 around 140 or so. I think the throttle is pretty forgiving on the gs as it will take a little bit of time to build the revs and power. On my old CBR you could blip the throttle at the wrong time and really have some problems depending on the gear selected. The GS I think will forgive those mistakes a little more willingly.
They are quite tough as far as not shattering if they get dropped. I think the first bike IS Going to get dropped at least once. You may lost a mirror or bend the bars but on the naked models there won't be a grand worth of cosmetic damage.
Mine has been in storage for a long time and it has been a bear bringing it back to life.....but it's a fun bike that has really grown on me since getting the fuel delivery taken care of and some new tires.
Whatever you decide to go with I hope she has many happy years riding. Both of you be safe.
Scott
Jason,
Thanks for researching your options.
In Aust beginners are restricted by a power-to-weight thing. All 250s fall into the category and since this rule came into being (instead of the 250cc limit) the GS500 is now in there available for beginners (previously you needed a full license to ride it). As is the Honda CB400 w/ v-tec. And oddly, the Kawasaki KLR650 (but not the Vstrom). And Suzuki makes Restricted Gladius's and SV650s. I ride with a woman who rides a Suzuki Intruder 250 and it damn well goes. Another fellow does magic on a Virago 250. But I digress....
Start when cold: Full choke, no throttle.
Start when warm: No choke, a little throttle while it kicks over.
Either case, instant starting.
Hardest time I had starting the temp was 33F and the bike had been sitting outside in the cold wind for around 7 hours. It didn't start first go. Didn't start 2nd go. I waited about half a minute to a minute and it started 3rd go, sluggishly, I gave a little throttle and she came good. This has only happened once. Normally, if it's hard to start the valves are too tight.
Switching to Res is painless. Reach down behind your left thigh and there she is. Switch is easy as. Can even practice it stopped and left foot on peg to know you've got it. And even practice when riding. I don't usually hit res. I tank up, reset the trip meter and ride until about 300kms then refuel. I did ride to reserve three times on purpose so I'd have an idea how far I can go before hitting it. Since then, it's 300ish (310, 320, 330) and into a gas station. (300kms is about 190 miles)
Carb cleaning. I've not done it in around 26,000 clicks.
Michael
With my '95 GS-E With over 30k miles on it.. the only time I've had to go full choke is when it was below 35F. Half choke no throttle fires it up every time and is almost instantly purring away at 3,000rpms. If the bike is already warm you can start it no choke no throttle. I've never once had to touch my throttle to start my bike. (I've ridden 40 freeway miles with it left at half choke without even noticing until i came to stop and it was purring away at 3k rpms. Now I am constantly checking to make sure I've turned my choke off.. lol.)
As far as the fuel control (petcock) it is simple. Option 1: Fill up with-in every 100 miles. (I Guess the F is okay to go 150.) Option 2: Practice flipping the petcock from on to reserve with the bike on its center stand. I run to my reserve every time and then get gas. As soon as I feel a little sputter (Usually around 125 miles, E has a smaller tank than F) I reach under my thigh a little behind my knee and flick it to reserve.. or sometimes all the way up to prime to make sure I don't have a partial open situation since I can't LOOK at it. It's okay to ride on prime.. just make sure you flick it back to res or on when the bike is turned off.
Good luck with whatever you and your wife decide!
500 cc is too big for a first bike for a timid woman...........it is too big a first bike for ANYONE........(IMHO)
I know of many woman, who got a too big first bike and got the crap scared out of them, or worse had bad accidents, and then pretty much gave up riding right then and there........maybe just ride on back with hubby now....
Buy something small, and used......at a good price..........let her get experience at her own pace.......then you can sell that small bike for almost no loss of $$$ and move up later......
Cookie
I am a 160 lb 57 year old man who just started to ride before my 57th birthday. I bought a zuma 125 and rode it 1000 miles. I felt unsafe on a lot of roads where I live with the zuma's 55 mph top speed. I upgraded to a gs500f. It took me about 1000 miles on gs to actually feel comfortable with the extra 200 lbs of weight. A couple of times I almost lost it in slow speed situations and it took all of my strength to keep it up. Theses situations were caused by noob mistakes. Now I never feel the weight of the bike because I do not make those mistakes any longer. An experienced rider probably does not realize how much the bike weighs to a beginning rider regardless of size or strength. I would strongly recommend a lighter bike.
On the other hand, a female friend of mine did learn how to ride on an HD sportster which weighs even more so it can be done but she did dump it more than once.
Regarding the choke/carb and starting issues, if it's in good working order, it shouldn't have any problem starting. There is no accelerator pump, so flooding is impossible as far as I can tell. I hate messing with carbs and would love to have FI on a bike like this. But it always starts in a fraction of a second when ambient temperatures are over 40°F and starts in maybe a full second in lower temps. Have started it below freezing with no problems at all--first try. Cold starting can also be helped with a good battery.
Switching to reserve while moving isn't a problem either, but it should be practiced before it's needed. The vacuum operated fuel valve requires the engine to be turning, so if the bike is in gear and rolling, clutch engaged, the fuel valve is open. Just have to be sure that you don't leave the valve in 'reserve' after the fill-up because the next time you run out, you're really out!
+1. The GS500 uses a CV carb without an accelerator pump. It's pretty much impossible to flood the engine (presuming everything is in mechanical order. A leaky float valve will flood it.)
I disagree that the GS500 is too large a bike for a new rider. Although a Ninja 250 might be preferable, I rode with a 95lb Vietnamese girl who started on a GS500F. IMO, the GS500F power band is a little more novice friendly than the 250, but the seat height and extra weight are less ideal.
Small note on carbs. If your carbs are in good order and setup correctly you should never need throttle to start. No matter the carby you are using or the setup it is involved in.
I think the GS500 if a big bike for a very first time user. Hell I stepped off my GN250 and thought dam did I just buy a boat? And I had ridden my mates Ninja 250 a number of times to get an idea of how a new bike handles (he bought it new and it was 9 months old when I rode it) to compare to bikes I was looking at.
That being said I did quickly get used to it and found it quite an easy bike to ride and forgiving and able to take a bit of abuse.
if you are concerned about the weight, have her sit and walk it around rocks in the parking lot. also tell her its ok to just let the bike go, its a first bike.
not sure about licensing where you are, but here it is stupid easy to get a license, but if you don't know how to work a choke you can loose points on the written.
My better half got a GS500F as her first moto at the beginning of this month; she's extremely happy with it.
She's 5'2", 110 pounds, and has no problem with the fit; she can get the balls of both feet on the ground. My ride is a Ninja 650, same curb weight, but the GS seems to feel much lighter (no idea why).
The carbs are a non-issue, once the bike is warmed up. And it's nowhere near as finicky and cold-blooded as the Ninja 250. Also, the fuel switch is very easy to operate.
She doesn't find it to be overpowered, and she loves the nimble handling.
bought my 2007 from a 100 pound 5'1" lady. she had lowered the back by swapping out he dogbones.
Wow, maybe I'm not like other females but geeze you kinda make her sound like she shouldn't even be in a car!
This was my first bike if she can handle the MSF course with little to no problems then she should be able to handle this bike. I'm 5'8" but not going into my weight.
Changing the petcock is easy with a little practice. Get her up on the centerstand and practice it until it is second nature. The throttle you I only use it when I'm getting started for the day or after I get off work being it has sat for 8 hours. Then it is usually only for a few minutes.
I dunno but it just seems like guys don't wanna give us girls enough credit.
Mary
Nobody has said that she couldn't handle the GS500. But OP described his wife as "timid".
Put anyone on a smaller, lighter weight bike and they will do better, learn faster, and be more confident. Small bikes are great; I'd love a TU250 and when I replace the GS500 it will probably be with a DRZ400 (100lbs lighter). I started on a 200.
Put a small timid person on a larger bike and you might scare them off when they realize they cannot stop it from tipping over and they cannot lift it up themselves. The problem is in their head but you've still turned them off of cycles.
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on August 15, 2010, 09:35:05 PM
Wow, maybe I'm not like other females but geeze you kinda make her sound like she shouldn't even be in a car!
This was my first bike if she can handle the MSF course with little to no problems then she should be able to handle this bike. I'm 5'8" but not going into my weight.
Changing the petcock is easy with a little practice. Get her up on the centerstand and practice it until it is second nature. The throttle you I only use it when I'm getting started for the day or after I get off work being it has sat for 8 hours. Then it is usually only for a few minutes.
I dunno but it just seems like guys don't wanna give us girls enough credit.
Mary
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on August 15, 2010, 09:35:05 PM
Wow, maybe I'm not like other females but geeze you kinda make her sound like she shouldn't even be in a car!
This was my first bike if she can handle the MSF course with little to no problems then she should be able to handle this bike. I'm 5'8" but not going into my weight.
Changing the petcock is easy with a little practice. Get her up on the centerstand and practice it until it is second nature. The throttle you I only use it when I'm getting started for the day or after I get off work being it has sat for 8 hours. Then it is usually only for a few minutes.
I dunno but it just seems like guys don't wanna give us girls enough credit.
Mary
I think as GS 500 is too big for a GUY too for first bike............In safety school we rode suzuki 125..........some guys had trouble with them too.........
BTW........what's this fascination with bigger is always better?
Cookie
Quote from: twocool on August 16, 2010, 05:17:02 AM
I think as GS 500 is too big for a GUY too for first bike............In safety school we rode suzuki 125..........some guys had trouble with them too.........
BTW........what's this fascination with bigger is always better?
Cookie
no bigger is better going on here, we just love our gs500, and think everyone should ride one! but seriously, while the gs is a great starter bike, it may not be the best bike for his wife. I personally am teaching my wife to ride on an old honda trail 70 that I swapped a 125 honda engine into. nothing will teach throttle control like a bike that power wheelies in 3rd gear!
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on August 15, 2010, 09:35:05 PM
Wow, maybe I'm not like other females but geeze you kinda make her sound like she shouldn't even be in a car!
This was my first bike if she can handle the MSF course with little to no problems then she should be able to handle this bike. I'm 5'8" but not going into my weight.
Changing the petcock is easy with a little practice. Get her up on the centerstand and practice it until it is second nature. The throttle you I only use it when I'm getting started for the day or after I get off work being it has sat for 8 hours. Then it is usually only for a few minutes.
I dunno but it just seems like guys don't wanna give us girls enough credit.
Mary
You must have missed my comment above where I said I wondered if I'd bought a boat when I got the GS500. I'm 5'10 200lbs male. Its all what your used to and how your perceive the issue. I was a bit timid having ripped the flesh off my right thumb in my first bike, so I approached the GS with a new sense of mortality I didn't have before my accident. No fear not an issue, scared get a smaller first bike.
Set-up as factory original, I think the Gs500F is a decent first bike than can still serve adequately after you get accuotmed to riding. My first choice for a beginner's bike would be a 250 Enduro style unless the rider is pretty short.
My Gs500 seems to really "love" the enrichment knob, even on initial start on a hot day. Within a minute's ride its fine runing without any such enrichment. My daughter learned on my Gs and it only cost me a set of cluch/brake levers, a left side mirror, and I guess I could use some new tupperware -- but its hardly noticiable. She never did have trouble with the weight of the bike. I ride large cruisers and touring bikes too, so the Gs to me feels really light and flickable.
prs
Its not like she is 5'2" and 110lbs! She's 5'9 easy to flat foot this bike. I'm just giving a woman's perspective on this bike esp someone who is about the same size etc.
Guess I'm just constantly tired of everytime I go into a different shop or anything doing with motors and such I get the "honey are you buying this so your boyfriend or husband can put it on" No I'm buying it so I can put it on!
I still recommend if she hasn't done the MSF course that that should be the first order of business before any bike!
TBH I think she should go to a dealer and pick one out for herself and then go to wherever they need to to buy the bike. When I went with my guy friend to pick out my bike we were on totally different ends of the spectrum. He thought I would do a cruiser or a scooter for that matter. But, sitting on the GS is what felt right to me and it still does. If I was of the bigger is better camp I think I would have gone to a gixxer long ago being I've put 18,000 on Flick and plan on doing at least twice that before going for another bike.
Mary
I am in a similar situation with my wife; I am trying to get her into motorcycle riding and she is only half interested in it.
I am curious if your wife is really excited and determined or if she is only giving it a shot based on your encouragement. (my wife falls into the second category)
If she is self motivated to learn and you aren't worried she will give it up after a drop or tip over I would go with the gs.
I am too worried my wife will never want to ride again if she crashes so I have started her on a 150cc scooter.
I am hoping she will get tired of not being able to keep up with other bikes and ask for something bigger/faster, but if not at least she is on 2 wheels.
I actually plan to keep my GS for my wife later but it still will not be here first bike to learn on. I'll get some little bike that she won't care about if she drops.