so during an oil change today i over tightened one of the three oil filter cap screws and the threads snapped off... im not even sure where to go from here, is the bike trashed or is it fixable. please help :cry:
Is it snapped flush or do you have any protruding stud,its most likely you will need to drill and rethread.
This thread may be helpful.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=47506.0
that thread my save me, thanks a lot
That has happened more than once. At least you know how little torque it takes to snap one of those guys off. Good luck on the fix.
Hope it's pretty painless for you.
Scott
Congratulations!, Haven't seen one of those in a day or two, guess you didn't have the time, inclination, or curiosity to check older post. Sure wish I had bought stock in GS oil filter studs and nuts when I had the chance.
Quote from: ojstinson on September 08, 2010, 02:22:15 PM
Congratulations!, Haven't seen one of those in a day or two, guess you didn't have the time, inclination, or curiosity to check older post. Sure wish I had bought stock in GS oil filter studs and nuts when I had the chance.
really do not appreciate the sarcasm, i did not know this was a common problem as i am very new to bikes and working with engines in general. ill look for older post next time i have an issue so that you do not need to waste your time reading mine
"i did not know this was a common problem as i am very new to bikes and working with engines in general" ----All the more reason to do some checking into things, That's what this is all about, if you don't want to take a little time to at least semi-educate yourself ( it's all there for the taking ) then I guess you lose.
if you want to see some really offensive flames to people who don't read FAQ or search, try the Ninja 250 forum. I like this site because people are so polite. Same for TW200 site and V-strom site. Miata.
Personally I find it to usually be faster to search than to ask, the answer is usually a few clicks away.
Right you are Johnny, compared to those you listed mine was just a good natured little nudge and a wink.
Literally every issue I've had with my GS, as well as every hypothetical situation I've dreamed up, has already been covered here multiple times. I think of posts like this as more of way of saying hi.
lesson learned, thanks for the help.
You are not the first to shear one of these studs and bring the problem to light in here and you certainly wont be the last! it seems to happen with an alarming regularity. I dont see it as an inherrent design issue by Suzuki like many do because if the removal and refitting procedure is followed correctly and with competance there will be no issues. Suzuki could I suppose fit studs that have a higher tensile strength which would reduce the chance of them shearing but why should they if lower grade ones will suffice.
The most suitable repair method will depend on how and exactly where the stud has sheared relative to the casing. So much has been said on this subject in the past it is impossible to add anything other than to suggest you search the many many comments on the subject and decide what for you will be the best way of tackling the problem.
Dont take the "search newbie" comments to heart.....people just get fed up repeating the same old things.
Has anyone mentioned that a mudflap on front fender might help keep the oil filter area clean, for less issues when doing oil change? Even though it uses acorn nuts on the cover if I remember right. I rememer lots of dirt when I took my filter off.
I use a "fenda-extenda" myself, thinking homemade rubber mudflaps look too homemade.
I use hugger on rear, with full OEM fender, cause the hugger keeps clean the area under airbox. Factory setup has mudflap above swingarm axle that is not very effective.
Quote from: LetsBeFriends on September 08, 2010, 09:16:54 PM
lesson learned, thanks for the help.
Did you get it fixed? Hope so. Good luck to you.
i have not gotten it fixed yet, there was enough of the bolt sticking out that i thought i may be able to use two nuts and back out the bolt myself. sadly that was not the case, and i do not really feel comfortable putting a dremel near the engine block cause if you nick that... its all over, so sadly the bike will be going to my dealer where i will pay dearly for my mistake
I am assuming you can't get a set of vice grips on it? With two nuts worth sticking out I would think you might be able to grab it. Or if one nut can be started you can put a mig tack on the nut inside and put a socket on it. I have had decent luck using an easy out system on things like this but worse. Like a rusted in water jacket bolt. Those bolts are pretty weak and although I haven't snapped one on the bike I have done it plenty on other things I have worked on. I think it is something in the back of our minds that tells us we will have a leak if it's not tight. Some of the gaskets/seal are so efficient you can just snug it and it works. I wish you the best of luck with it.
Be safe.
Scott
Quote from: LetsBeFriends on September 13, 2010, 07:40:33 AM
i have not gotten it fixed yet, there was enough of the bolt sticking out that i thought i may be able to use two nuts and back out the bolt myself. sadly that was not the case, and i do not really feel comfortable putting a dremel near the engine block cause if you nick that... its all over, so sadly the bike will be going to my dealer where i will pay dearly for my mistake
no stealerships! for the love of gs lol. i really think you can do this yourself. the monkey at the dealership is just gonna pound on it anyway so you might as well tackle it on your own.
if anything just drill and tap. use a bolt instead of a stud. or whatever works. g'luck
I love all the "just do" suggestions that get posted whenever the subject of broken header or filter bolts/studs is raised :D I appreciate that people are trying to help and are offering what they consider to be helpful advice but how many people who say "use an easy-out" or "just drill the broken bolt out" have actually and successfully pulled what they suggest off for themselves??
"just drill and tap"...yeah....sounds dead easy......but..... What size drill? What type of drill? What speed works best? Do I need coolant? What size tap do I need to clean the thread out......how do I clean the thread out? How do I stop the drill wandering? Am I likely to damage the case if I get it wrong? What happens if I do and how can it be put right? Can I even get a drill in there??!!.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
This link explains it all.....
http://www.renaultalpineownersclub.com/Freeing%20bolts.htm
It should be posted as a sticky :thumb:
i dont mean to sound nasty or anything but it really isn't too hard.
use drill and tap charts. choose your thread of choice based on the available space. there are also cutting speeds and coolants/lubricants for various materials out there. a google search goes a long way.
it's tough stuff yes but the difference is the man who is willing to learn and try anything and those who simply give up.
i am a self taught mechanic/machinist. i love this stuff and i figure anyone of these forums would be the same way.
you all have convinced me, i did attempt the vice grips and was again not able to get it to budge, but like i said you all have persuaded me to give it a few more attempts before going to the dealer. i really appreciate all the ideas and i will keep it all in mind. I do have one question though, i read somewhere that removing the exhaust to allow for more room to work can potentially be bad as something about the bolts that hold the exhaust on are faulty, is this the case or should i remove the exhaust as it would make working much easier.
Sledge I can appreciate what you are saying and I agree none of these are the easiest thing to do if you haven't done it. I agree with the do anything you can to learn how to not take it in to be done for you. I didn't go into detail about the easy out because for all I know he may already know how to do it. If not.... one thing that would get missed if you haven't worked metal before would be the use of a punch to keep the bit from wandering. It's pretty much follow the directions after that. There are several tricks such as slotting and hammering a flathead screwdriver in there. I wasn't born knowing this...I either learned it by watching and helping my grandpa or trial and error. Even if that doesn't work there is the drill and tap method such as reload mentioned or you can do that first step if you feel good about it. I am just saying chances are, no matter how screwed you think you are, someone has probably stuffed it up worse. Just trying to give some guidance even if it's been said a thousand times before. You never learn if you don't try. Just research as much as you can and try to get the right tools for the job. One step at a time and don't get in a hurry.
Good luck.
Scott
aka the man who has been in your shoes before.
yes, the exhaust does get in the way. loosen the single bolt on the can, remove the 6mm allen bolts, then pivot it down, remove the single bolt and set aside.
regular hand held allen keys prob wont give ya enough torque for those bolts so get your hands on a allen key socket set. i made one by cutting the hex rods off allen keys and JB welding them to spare socket sets.
now you can dremel a flat surface on that stripped stud and get to drilling. just think it through real hard before ya do anything you can't undo.
maybe you can also post pictures so we can assist.
Quote from: LetsBeFriends on September 13, 2010, 12:47:43 PM
you all have convinced me, i did attempt the vice grips and was again not able to get it to budge, but like i said you all have persuaded me to give it a few more attempts before going to the dealer. i really appreciate all the ideas and i will keep it all in mind. I do have one question though, i read somewhere that removing the exhaust to allow for more room to work can potentially be bad as something about the bolts that hold the exhaust on are faulty, is this the case or should i remove the exhaust as it would make working much easier.
I would say the more clearance the better and if you are trying to do something tricky don't try to do it in a tight space if you can get around it. I have yet to remove the exhaust from mine because I was worried about snapping bolts off. A couple of people recently advised me theirs come off quite easily. Hard to call it until you try but if you do penetrating oil soak can do wonders for stuck bolts. I mean spray it and wait hours. I would spray it and wait overnight....if you are waiting then let it soak while you wait. I read a thread recently and I think GSJack gave a lot of sound advice on the subject of stuck bolts ie....penetrating oil.....heat and beat....etc. Do a search on exhaust bolts. The main reason I haven't dropped mine is I am waiting on gaskets to come in so I will have them ready. Make certain you have exactly the correct allen wrench ie: If it's a 6mm then don't try using a SAE that is sloppy in the hole or you can almost rest assured you will strip it. Forgive me if I am telling you stuff you know.
Scott
Quote from: reload on September 13, 2010, 01:13:54 PM
remove the 6mm allen bolts
Allen bolts??.....surely you mean socket cap-heads and I believe they are set-screws not bolts :thumb:
Quote from: sledge on September 13, 2010, 01:30:31 PM
Quote from: reload on September 13, 2010, 01:13:54 PM
remove the 6mm allen bolts
Allen bolts??.....surely you mean socket cap-heads and I believe they are set-screws not bolts :thumb:
ack, why is there always a guy like you on forums...
allen bolt is another name for it...just like recessed hex, socket cap screws etc etc.
i can tell you have no idea what you're talking about if you think that's a set-screw so please stop trolling and play nice.
just sprayed the exhaust bolts with WD-40 and will let that sit over night, ill get some pics in the morning so you can see what i a dealing with, i am going to get these out myself :thumb: the advice hear is worth a million dollars
Quote from: reload on September 13, 2010, 01:39:45 PM
i can tell you have no idea what you're talking about if you think that's a set-screw.
Really?.......well let me give you a friendly reminder of the differences between bolts and set screws as it would seem that when you were `teaching` yourself it was something you overlooked along the way :thumb:
Put simply bolts are not threaded along the whole length of the shank they are intended to be (but not always) used with nuts and not generaly fitted into threaded components.
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFOUdj17EMhQmwrOElneJmTvOLgFQsNBZwQ9qOSFAV4zkyXXQ&t=1&usg=__IUoKGycu3TYb_Xv-fyUUy2yudyo=)
A bolt!
Set screws on the otherhand are fastenings that are threaded along the whole length of the shank. They are weaker than comparable bolts, can also be used with nuts and are intended to be fitted into threaded components.
(http://www.fastsupply.co.uk/images/HT_set_screw_BZP.jpg)
A set screw.
"Allen" is a brand name, its not a generc term for any derivation of socket head fastenening or hexagonal section key.
Call me a pedant if you wish but (unlike you) I was tought by professionals, appologies if the result of this offends you :thumb:
Quote from: LetsBeFriends on September 13, 2010, 06:47:36 PM
just sprayed the exhaust bolts with WD-40 and will let that sit over night, ill get some pics in the morning so you can see what i a dealing with, i am going to get these out myself :thumb: the advice hear is worth a million dollars
Advice?
Howabout you forget about WD40 and use something worthwhile.......like Plus-gas :thumb:
(http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/images/EAC/plusgas.jpg)
What is the right torque for those cap screws anyway?
Manual says 9-12 Newts....call it 10.5 for the standard Hi-tensile ones. Swap them out for stainless or cover them in coppa-slip on the way back in and you are on your own :dunno_black:
Quote from: sledge on September 13, 2010, 11:31:32 PM
Quote from: reload on September 13, 2010, 01:39:45 PM
i can tell you have no idea what you're talking about if you think that's a set-screw.
Really?.......well let me give you a friendly reminder of the differences between bolts and set screws as it would seem that when you were `teaching` yourself it was something you overlooked along the way :thumb:
Put simply bolts are not threaded along the whole length of the shank they are intended to be (but not always) used with nuts and not generaly fitted into threaded components.
A bolt!
Set screws on the otherhand are fastenings that are threaded along the whole length of the shank. They are weaker than comparable bolts, can also be used with nuts and are intended to be fitted into threaded components.
A set screw.
"Allen" is a brand name, its not a generc term for any derivation of socket head fastenening or hexagonal section key.
Call me a pedant if you wish but (unlike you) I was tought by professionals, appologies if the result of this offends you :thumb:
no, you're wrong. just look up the definitions. please type set screw into google.
there are many definitions for bolt vs screw, you'll find that argument to be inconclusive.