GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

I am going to be getting a new bike for next season, but I can't decide between these four bikes...

Suzuki Bandit 1250S...

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TEIcTKYl4BI/AAAAAAAAAKY/UBJlrcWx3MY/s720/2009-Suzuki-Bandit1250SABSb.jpg)

Suzuki Boulevard M90...

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TCreFlBlmPI/AAAAAAAAAFc/LAhj9lIKDsA/s720/2010-Suzuki-BoulevardM90b.jpg)

Suzuki V-Strom DL650...

Street version...

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TKXxX5gSrcI/AAAAAAAAAPM/UH-s9UVnEWA/s720/StromApril26th2008.jpg)

or Dirt version...

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TKXx3Dw6NHI/AAAAAAAAAPU/C_BEJbpaLK4/Suzuki%20DL650%202007.jpg)

Yamaha MT-01...

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TJzdEqdudjI/AAAAAAAAAOI/3yO9Y7ZCx60/2006-Yamaha-MT-01e.jpg)

I like all of these bikes for different reasons...the Bandit has the comfort and power, but lacks personality (kinda)...the Boulevard M90 has the style and sound, but you have to use caution in the corners...

The other two bikes are compromises...the V-Strom gives you the comfort and sportyness of the bandit, with a V-twin and dirt road ability thrown in for brownie points...the MT-01 has the attitude and personality to go with the comfort, power and v-twin sound (15L tank limits the range of the bike.)

Please give me your arm chair analysis and which one you would choose if it was your money...no option for two bikes...money and space is limited...

Thanks for your input...

Later.

These bikes vary a lot.  Once you decide what kind of riding you want to do the answer will be clearer.  I know you said space is limited but I think the best thing to do is find the space so you can have an everyday street bike, a touring bike, and a dirt bike.  That way you have a bike for whatever you want to do.

If you're really strapped for space so you can only have one bike, I would get the V-Strom dirt version.  Then I would get an extra set of wheels so I had street tires and dirt tires.

Quote from: bill14224 on October 01, 2010, 08:46:05 AM


If you're really strapped for space so you can only have one bike, I would get the V-Strom dirt version.  Then I would get an extra set of wheels so I had street tires and dirt tires.

It looks like both bikes have the same wheels. I think the main difference is the lower fairing vs. the metal engine guard.

I second the recommendation to figure out what kind of riding you want to do. Your options are so completely varied that once you decide what you want to do, you should definitely know which bike you'd rather. If you do commuting/light touring, I'd go with the bandit. If you want comfort just to do some cruising I'd get the M90. If you want a lighter bike just to have some fun on, commute on, take some rough roads and aren't horribly concerned with HP, the v-strom would be good. If you just want an all around awesome bike that would be ok for touring, 2 up riding/cruising, and some sporty riding I really like the looks of the mt-01, but they're definitely a little heavy for the sporty side of things.

Let us know what kinda riding you think you spend most of your time doing. In my personal opinion, since that's what you've asked for....

1.  MT-01
2.  Bandit
3.  V-strom off road
4.  V-strom on road
5.  Boulevard

Oh, and for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure my XB only has a 3.7 gallon tank, which is about the same size as the MT-01 and it doesn't really bug me. Doesn't help if you're looking for a touring bike but I stick around town and just fill up when my trip odometer hits 100 miles and don't give it a second thought. I've done the same thing since I was 17 and started riding on a 20 year old dual sport with a broken trip odometer. I would just fill up every time the normal odometer rolled over for another hundred. It works pretty well so I've just stuck with it ever since. I doubt the MT01 gets the same gas mileage my xb does, but still.

At first I'm thinking.... sticking with Suzukis, eh. Then the MT01 makes an appearance.

Quick question.... why specifically the M90 and not, say, the M50 or another cruiser like the Triumph America? Cause New, the America is a little cheaper and 200# lighter than the M90. Sure, the engine is almost half the size, more like the M50, but the Boulevards are large bikes for what they are. The M50 being physically larger than the America, for instance.

Ok. So,with only the choices you gave and based on the riding I do...

1: Vstrom Street - larger tank, better mileage.
2: Bandit - smaller tank than #1, worse mileage, but if it was more comfortable to ride for an hour to hour and a half than they'd swap places.
3: Vstrom Dirt - no 3 cause I'd rather it over the last 2 but have no need for the Dirt kit instead of the street fairings
4: MT01 - would't even consider - don't like the look, don't need the size, pillions are screwed.
5: M90 - wouldn't even consider, but last cause it's heavier and physically larger so not suited to My riding or space requirements or mileage/range - and - any bike that has maneuverability issues is automatically out due to safety reasons.

See if you can take them all for a 30 minute test ride. Then get the one that's most comfortable and has no minor issue you think you'd get used to - you never get used to them and they turn into annoyances.

Michael

Quote from: mister on October 01, 2010, 01:17:24 PM
Quick question.... why specifically the M90 and not, say, the M50 or another cruiser like the Triumph America? Cause New, the America is a little cheaper and 200# lighter than the M90. Sure, the engine is almost half the size, more like the M50, but the Boulevards are large bikes for what they are. The M50 being physically larger than the America, for instance.

The M50 and other cruisers in this bracket (Vulcan 900 Custom, Star 950) are only a small step up in performance compared to the GS500...and I weigh 275lbs, so my weight really affects the performance of smaller bikes.

That is my biggest concern about the V-Strom...the low torque numbers...yes it is 30% more than the GS, but I want significant/noticable performance increase.  The GS500 can go as fast as I want it to, unless there is strong winds or steep hills...then it falls flat...I want something that can pass at hiway speeds with authority.  Most of my riding is done on the hiway between 110-120kph (70-75mph), and I don't know if the smaller displacement engines will give me what I am looking for.

I have test rode the Bandit and the MT-01, both have no problem with power (I don't think that was ever in question)...but the MT-01 has some serious presence/attitude.  But the Bandit has the larger tank and the fuel range.  I haven't been able to test the V-Strom...the local dealer doesn't have any demos available...I also have not ridden the M90, but I did test the M50 and found it a little more powerful, but not mind blowing.

I really like the range available with the V-Strom, but worry about the power issue.  The MT-01 has the sound of the cruiser and lots of attitude, but the small tank makes me a little nervous.  I am leaning towards the Bandit since it is the mose versitile of the four bikes (the MT-01 has fittment issues with luggage and would need an aftermarket wind deflector of some kind)...but I think all four bikes would be a good choice for the riding that I do.  That's why I was asking for opinions.

Thanks for the input so far...lets keep it coming.

Later.

Some of the 600s will have enough power for normal riding, but if most of what you're doing is on the highway you'd probably appreciate a little more. You could downshift to 3rd gear and really move, but when you're cruising on the highway it's much nicer to just twist the throttle, like you could on the bandit or MT01.

When you're talking about luggage, or you thinking for trips, or just highway commuting? I think the only thing you'd have a tough time with on the mt01 are saddle bags. You could still find a tail bag that would fit, and of course a tank bag. I like having everything I carry either on my tank so I can see it, or on my back so I can feel it. I'm nothing but paranoid when I have stuff strapped to the back seat because for all I know, it fell off 20 miles ago and scattered along the highway.

I just typed 'Yamaha mt-01 saddlebags' into google and came up with a lot of responses too. Looks like Ventura sells a bit of stuff for it.

(http://www.ventura-mca.com/images/models/826.jpg)

(http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/motorbikes/125709d1239818532-mod-accessories-my-yamaha-mt01-img_1508.jpg)

(http://www.ventura-mca.com/images/models/825.jpg)

(http://www.ventura-mca.com/images/models/827.jpg)

As you can tell I really want you to get an MT-01, partly because I can't even get one in this country, and partly because even if we had them here, it will still be too big for my 150lb self.

Edit: checking out this picture makes the back seat look a lot better than what I had imagined, and as I read more about it it says that there's a fan under the back seat specifically to draw heat away from it, so it may not be all that bad. Who wants a passenger anyway? The first thing I did when I brought my new bike home was to pull the passenger pegs off.

Quote from: tt_four on October 01, 2010, 02:46:03 PM
When you're talking about luggage, or you thinking for trips, or just highway commuting? I think the only thing you'd have a tough time with on the mt01 are saddle bags. You could still find a tail bag that would fit, and of course a tank bag. I like having everything I carry either on my tank so I can see it, or on my back so I can feel it. I'm nothing but paranoid when I have stuff strapped to the back seat because for all I know, it fell off 20 miles ago and scattered along the highway.

(http://www.ventura-mca.com/images/models/827.jpg)

As you can tell I really want you to get an MT-01, partly because I can't even get one in this country, and partly because even if we had them here, it will still be too big for my 150lb self.

I'm thinking of carrying my rain gear...I feel the same about strapping crap to the back of the bike, who knows if it is still there...so I end up reaching back every couple of minutes or so...I was looking for the soft saddle bags, but the Ventura rack might do it...doesn't look so dorky... :icon_rolleyes:

I really want the MT-01, but like I stated, I have a couple of concerns...fuel range (if I take the back road, who knows where the fuel stations are?), and where to put my rain gear (I am thinking that a tank bag might do)...the Bandit just makes it easier...but I don't think I want to make the sensible choice, I always do that and end up kicking myself...and the MT-01 is quite comfortable, even though it doesn't look it... :thumb:

I have to say that when I took the MT-01 for a test ride, I had a stupid grin on my face the whole time, and when I rolled on the throttle on the hiway...giggling   :icon_twisted: :thumb: :icon_twisted:

Later.

I would go with the Bandit if I was in your situation. Parts would be so more readily available and cheaper if (heaven forbid) anything goes wrong with or you drop your bike as compared to a bike that is a grey import. (The MT01 is in your country isn't it?) Have you checked parts availability and servicing costs yet?

Who cares if the Bandit doesn't have personality. If it is the bike that you feel most comfortable on, it will be the bike you will enjoy riding. You can always give it some personality with a few aftermarket upgrades here and there which I dare say you would have more options to do than say the MT01. A decent aftermarket pipe and can on the Bandit and you will be grinning and giggling pulling out on to the highway too i bet. I reckon they're beasts  :thumb: Just like the GS they've been around for a fair few years now so they must be doing something right. Yeh I know this sounds sensible and not what you want to hear but you still may end up kicking yourself if you choose the non sensible bike too.

Good luck with it  :D

As I own a V-Strom 650, guess what gets my vote?  :icon_mrgreen:

Of course the Strom doesn't come in either a 'street' or 'dirt' version, it is what you make it. I really like the look of the street version, the lower fairing pieces are aftermarket extras but it looks much better than my black and silver 04.

The Bandit would be second choice, good riding position, pretty good looks, good function.

The other bikes do nothing for me.

Quote from: madjak30 on October 01, 2010, 03:00:08 PM


and where to put my rain gear (I am thinking that a tank bag might do)...

That's definitely important to me. Not important enough to choose a bike without trunk storage, but it's still super convenient to have. My Triumph didn't have a ton, but there was just enough room to roll up some rain pants and tuck them under the seat, plus have some room for other things. It took me a week to even figure out how to fit my bungee net under the seat of my XB, and that's taking into account that it only has 3 hooks on it instead of the normal 6. I've always been ridiculously jealous of the truck space you get with an SRAD gsxr. It's like having a bookbag built into your bike. I've gotten used to riding with a bag, I barely even notice it anymore. It would be nice to at least have room for my phone, an underarmor shirt, and maybe one other thing, but instead I just jam everything into my jacket pockets.

+1 for the vstrom.

the others are meh.

why not a klr 650 or a beemer ? maybe a burgman ? scooter trash is getting hi powered nowadays.

Quote from: Twisted on October 01, 2010, 04:02:14 PM
I would go with the Bandit if I was in your situation. Parts would be so more readily available and cheaper if (heaven forbid) anything goes wrong with or you drop your bike as compared to a bike that is a grey import. (The MT01 is in your country isn't it?) Have you checked parts availability and servicing costs yet?

Who cares if the Bandit doesn't have personality. If it is the bike that you feel most comfortable on, it will be the bike you will enjoy riding. You can always give it some personality with a few aftermarket upgrades here and there which I dare say you would have more options to do than say the MT01. A decent aftermarket pipe and can on the Bandit and you will be grinning and giggling pulling out on to the highway too i bet. I reckon they're beasts  :thumb: Just like the GS they've been around for a fair few years now so they must be doing something right. Yeh I know this sounds sensible and not what you want to hear but you still may end up kicking yourself if you choose the non sensible bike too.

Good luck with it  :D

The MT-01 was imported by Yamaha Canada, so I don't have the same issues as I would if I lived in the States...and it may be more expensive to repair the Bandit with the half faring, than the naked MT-01.

I think I have really narrowed it down to the Bandit and the MT-01, so personality does play into it...and no matter what you do to the Bandit, it will never have the attitude of the MT-01.  It is raw and in your face...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5CxnmIy618&feature=more_related


It's one of those things you either love, or hate...I'm in the love it camp...

That doesn't mean the Bandit doesn't have its advantages...smoother engine, mirrors that can see past your arms, luggage is more easily found, much better fuel range...

As for being comfortable, I found the MT-01 just as comfortable as the Bandit, maybe even more so...32.5" seat height on the MT-01, 31.7" seat height on the Bandit.  And your right, I could end up kicking myself for sticking my neck out and getting the attitude bike, but I won't be second guessing myself as per usual.

@thecdn:  I like both of the versions of the DL650, but I don't think it will have enough power for me...

@tt_four:  there is absolutely no storage under the seat...I popped the seat to check, I don't even think I could put my i-Pod touch under there...??

I had my Wee-Strom for 3 years and 14,000 trouble-free miles.  There is a lot to like about it.  225 miles before you hit reserve...the range on a tank of gas is mind-blowing!  It is zippy enough and will happily do 90mph without straining.   There are a huge number and variety of luggage & box options, and changing the oil couldn't possibly be faster or easier!  You will likely need a taller windshield and Madstad bracket.   I can't really say anything bad about the Wee.

But I did just trade the Wee in on an '05 Bandit 1200 (carbureted version).  Overall, the bike is a bit less practical, but I bought it more for the grin factor.   And it gives LOTS of grins!  Lacks personality?   I think naked bikes are sexy as hell, but that's just my opinion.   It does get lots of compliments, and it doesn't look like every other CBR or Gixxer on the road.   But I've put less than 500 miles on it, so I can't really say what it's like on long trips.   The gearbox shifts very quickly and smoothly, and the bike really feels like the tires are connected to the road surface.   I love it so far!

I would go with the Wee or the Bandit.  Think about what kind of riding you will be doing and what you want out of the bike.   Do you want an economical Swiss Army knife?   Go with the Wee.  

[/quote]

The MT-01 was imported by Yamaha Canada, so I don't have the same issues as I would if I lived in the States...and it may be more expensive to repair the Bandit with the half faring, than the naked MT-01.

[/quote]

Do they sell the naked Bandits over there?

(http://www.suzukimotorcycles.com.au/images/upload/working/Originalsmc_GSF1250AL0_hr.png)

Quote from: Twisted on October 01, 2010, 10:12:41 PM

Do they sell the naked Bandits over there?

(http://www.suzukimotorcycles.com.au/images/upload/working/Originalsmc_GSF1250AL0_hr.png)

Yup, those are supposed to be coming for the 2011 models, but it isn't the styling that I don't like...it is mostly the sound...I know, kinda shallow, but I just don't care...I couldn't decide between the M90 and the Bandit...the cruiser for the sound, and the Bandit for the power and cornering...then I found the MT-01...

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TJzdE792daI/AAAAAAAAAOQ/ToteBZpXGWg/2009-Yamaha-MT-01-800x600.jpg)

Later.

I know it's not a necessary either, but USD forks like you get on the MT-01 really make a bike seem a lot classier to me. That's always one of the first things I check out when I look at other bikes.

I think I have figured out the range anxiety issue...I will get the Ventura parcel shelf, and carry a 5L gerry can on touring rides  :thumb:...a tank bag and a back pack should be enough for my crap... :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:

I think I may have a bike to buy... :woohoo:

Now I just have to convince the wife that we need a couple of dirt bikes for me and the kids, and I am golden... :icon_mrgreen:

Hey, a guy can dream can't he... :icon_twisted: :cookoo: :icon_twisted:

Later.

Just paint the can black, or find a nice black container that gas won't eat through and you'll be set. I don't take many trips, but when I do I'm always tempted to get a small(20oz-1 liter) bottle to hold gas in to stash somewhere, just incase. I've never taken the time to look around and see what kind of bottle I could use. Not sure if a nalgene or sigg bottle or something simple like that would do.

I never thought of that, you could go to the camping supply store and pick up a camp stove fuel container to carry the extra gas...might be a plan.  :thumb:

I just got back from a ride on my GS, and I still enjoy riding it.  I'm going to have a hard time justifying a less efficient and smaller tank bike...I sometimes wonder if I would be happy just keeping the little Suzuki.   :dunno_black: :cookoo:  Or maybe just getting the V-Strom DL650, same mileage with a bigger tank and more leg room...???

This is why I don't just run out and buy it...but in reality, my ride today was only 150kms...I should be able to get 200kms on the MT-01 before the low fuel light and counter start.  Maybe I'm worrying about nothing...

Naaah...disreguard this whole post...I'll just get the bike I want, and make it work... :icon_twisted:

Hey...ya think I'm bi-polar or something...??   :icon_eek:  I'll have to make up my mind one of these days...

Later.

I know how you feel. I switched bikes 15 times before I settled on one I wanted. I had always wanted a gsxr750 when I was younger and figured it would be my next bike, but then I stopped riding for a few years. Then when I came back I was married and had a house, and didn't feel like riding how I used to. This time around I thought I wanted a 1000cc bike so I could just ride with the torque off of the low RPMs and take it easy for a while. I started considering a Z1000 for a while, then came back to the gsxr750, then I think I got into a mix of 636r and 600rrs, not to mention I always loved Buells but I was hoping to find a cheap fixer-uppers, and when it comes to beat up bikes I didn't want to mess with anything that wasn't japanese for the sake of finding cheap used parts.

In the end HD pulled the plug on Buell and I knew if I was going to ever own one this would be the time to do it. There are definitely things I'd enjoy with some of the other bikes I was considering but if you pick what you want you'll definitely be happy. The main downsides to mine are that it'll eventually be impossible to get new parts for it, so it'll completely be a matter of what I can find on ebay and buell forums. That makes me want to take it easy on the bike, and keep the miles low. I still ride back roads like it was meant to be ridden, but in general I'm pretty soft on the bike and don't really waste many miles on the highway. It would be nice to have a bike I didn't hate thought of riding too much. I just know it's gonna be sad someday when it rolls over to 50k miles and is starting to look pretty beat up, so I'm gonna push that day away as far as I can.

On the plus side, we've already got 2 dogs, and that was plenty for me. My wife found a puppy that she just had to have. I got her to agree to letting me pick up a second bike next fall when the current one is paid off. I'm just gonna go back to my original plan that I had before Buell went under and I decided to pick one up. I'm just gonna pick up a lightly roughed up japanese bike that I can get cheap, with a decently running motor but trashed plastics and other non-vital parts so I can just rebuild it how I want and have a bike that I won't have a second though about when I want to ride it hard, waste miles on the highway, leave it parked on a city street, ride in the rain, whatever. My XB can go to dedicated weekend/backroad duty.

Anyway, the whole point of that story is that all bikes have compromises, so there's no real point in worrying too much about something. If there's a bike you want, then that's the bike you want. If you only have money/space for one then you've gotta get what you want. Maybe someday down the line your wife(if you're married) will want something you don't want or need, and you can just tell her she can have it if you can get another bike.  
:woohoo:


I still take the gs out for a ride every once in a while. It's still a nice ride, but it gets tough after you're used to leaving redlights with 70ft/lbs of torque.

Yup, I hear ya...married with three kids, two dogs and limited space...that is part of my concern as well, being that the MT-01 is a discontinued bike.  I have heard stories of guys buying Japanese bikes that have been discontinued thinking "no big deal, the mfg is still there", but they don't continue making the parts once the bike is done it's run...makes me think the Wee Strom is the way to go, and build a muscle bike from available parts bikes...

Since test riding the other bikes, my GS500 seems a little lacking...but really, going down the road it clips along just fine...but the comfort issue is still there...feet too close to my butt...so a little more power and very comfortable, Wee Strom...but...

I have a feeling I will get the MT-01...but who knows...

I live in the city, so even though all of my rides head to back roads out of town, I still have a couple miles of city riding at the beginning and end of every ride. I don't race away from redlights, but being able to pull away from one easily makes a big difference. Sometimes if I just want to go for a 30-45 minute ride I'll just stick in town, so again if I'm really working the GS just to leave redlights and get through traffic it's just not the same.

Have you considered the sv650/sv1000 as a mid-step/compromise between the MT01 and the Vstrom?

Quote from: tt_four on October 04, 2010, 05:03:39 AM
Have you considered the sv650/sv1000 as a mid-step/compromise between the MT01 and the Vstrom?

Yup, I really like the SV650 (naked) and the newer Gladius, but they have similar peg to saddle distance to the GS500 which is too close for my liking...the SV650 is also a little more sporty...

I still think I will end up with the MT-01, even though both of the other options are more sensible...I just get a stupid grin on my face just thinking about that bike...

Later.

I think I have been talked out of buying the MT-01...I am now looking at a Bandit 1250S...much more performance, better range (100kms more...bigger tank and more efficient), better mirrors....??

The Bandit just pulls harder and keeps on going...the passing performance is better...the only thing that is missing is the sound from the pipes...I think I can live with that.

Later.

Get your practicality out of here!!  :cookoo:

My bike hates the highway, but that's ok because I do too.

Can you get the 1000cc V-Strom over there?

Quote from: the mole on October 18, 2010, 03:56:29 PM
Can you get the 1000cc V-Strom over there?

Cool, you're at 666 posts. Oooo... creepy spooky.

Mole, I'd always thought there wasn't that much diff between the 650 and the 1000 except in certain areas where most people wouldn't take the bike anyway. That is, most people wouldn't notice the difference between the two - what I've heard. You?

Michael

Quote from: tt_four on October 16, 2010, 06:40:27 AM
Get your practicality out of here!!  :cookoo:

My bike hates the highway, but that's OK because I do too.

Yeah, your right...I was having a weak moment when I posted that...I talked to a couple of guys about the range issue on the MT-01...they said they regularly get 220-240kms (140-150 miles) before the warning light goes on and at that point there are 3 litres left in the tank.  So that isn't terrible.  And I don't see myself wanting to be in the saddle for more than that at a time anyway.

I haven't spent my money yet, so we'll see...

I'll keep you posted.

Later.

Quote from: madjak30 on October 19, 2010, 08:28:56 PM

Quote from: tt_four on October 16, 2010, 06:40:27 AM
Get your practicality out of here!!  :cookoo:

My bike hates the highway, but that's OK because I do too.

Yeah, your right...I was having a weak moment when I posted that...I talked to a couple of guys about the range issue on the MT-01...they said they regularly get 220-240kms (140-150 miles) before the warning light goes on and at that point there are 3 litres left in the tank.  So that isn't terrible.  And I don't see myself wanting to be in the saddle for more than that at a time anyway.

I haven't spent my money yet, so we'll see...

I'll keep you posted.

Later.

When designing a ride for a group, I have to make sure we get to a gas station around 200 kms. Not for rest reasons - heck, we are resting before we've ridden 200 kms - but because their bikes just don't have the range. As such, it tends to limit your exploring ability a tad - at least around these neck of the woods anyway.

I guess the GS has spoiled me like that. I will hit reserve anywhere between 330km and 360kms on my GS. And could easily create a ride that goes that distance without a Fuel stop. BUT, cause those who ride with me have such limited range, it's stop and fill up time. Which can be somewhat annoying when the fuel is not where you will be stopping - so you stop for the stop and then stop for a refuel 15 minutes up the road  >:(

Sure. Sometimes I may fill up then as well. But it's a choice not cause I HAVE to otherwise I won't make it home or to the next planned stop where there is also fuel.

But hey, the Gladius has a shitty small tank while being Much thirstier than the GS, yet people get by. But that's Them. Such limits do not suit Me and the riding I like to do. Yes, we do have to keep fuel in mind more so than cagers do. But I like the flexibility of longer range.

I think you're in a spot now where no matter which bike you go with - the MT01 or the Bandit - you'll be wondering what the one you didn't pick would have been like had you picked it instead. It's called Buyers Remorse and all people get it. The nagging doubts After the purchase. Where Rational Thought now comes to the surface to niggle you about buying on Emotion Justified With Pseudo Logic.

The sort of logic that goes... you know, I could throw on a small jerry can with fuel to increase my range. But you know you'll never Really do it. Or that one that goes... I can always change the exhaust to make it sound Better - but Better is subjective. Or the one that really wants the one that's furthest out of reach for no other reason than to Prove that you Can have it.

So there are a few of us at work that have bikes. And more that ride dirt bikes. Of the road bikes, one guy Recently bought himself one of the new Triumph Thunderbirds. He's raved about it on and on. Reckons I should get one. Reckons the bloke looking into getting an XJR1300 should get one instead, reckons the guy on the VTR1000 should get one. Reckons the fellow on the R6 should get one. Why? Are they That good? Well, listening to him you'd think it's the best bike ever made. He should get a retainer for all the touting he does. (Can't be That good seeing has he's already had to have the forks replaced and some other warranty issues as well as change the seat and handlebars cause the stock ones are not good) But the Real reason.... he doesn't want to be the only guy who jumped into the cold water; the only crab in the bucket; etc. He will Feel Better about His expensive purchase if Others buy one too.

See. If you got the MT01 and we all went and bought bandits you'd be thinking... I made the wrong choice.
BUT. If you bought the Bandit and we all went and bought MT01s you'd think... I made the wrong choice.

So essentially, you'll buy the one you justify with pseudo logic the most, then regret buying it and wonder what the other bike would have been like - regardless of which bike you end up buying.

Enjoy your anguish  :D

Michael

+1 to your last post!
I haven't ridden either of the Stroms,but have heard the 1000 is on the heavy side of fun. The 650 is growing on me, had a chat to a really cute young woman who has one at the servo where we met (before you guys arrived) and she was singing its praises. I like most of the Strom, but am dubious about working on it. It looks less accessible than the GS, and there are too many valves and camshafts! I just like older stuff thats easy to wrench on. My old R60/6 spoilt me in that regard. On old 750 or 1000 BMW would suit me, if only I could buy a 5 year old one instead of 25.
The GS does everything I need at the moment, although there are always things I'd like to improve. I need to sell other toys before upgrading the bike.

If you think riding with someone on a 140 mile talk range is annoying you'd never survive riding with someone on a supermoto. An ex-GSer from this board that I ride with has one and I think he switches to reserve at about 70 miles, haha. I always fill up every 100 miles out of habit(gas light comes on about 130-140miles), so 70 miles isn't really an issue. I'm sure some areas are different but I don't think I've ever really gone on a ride where I rode 140 miles without being near a gas station or two in the process anyway.

Glad to hear you're debating the MT01 again!! I stopped checking out this thread for a week or so out of boredom after you said you had decided on the Bandit, haha. I like Bandits, but no where near as much as the Yamaha. I ride my bike for fun so that's at the top of my priorities list. It doesn't have the highest top speed, doesn't have that big of a tank, and sucks at the highway, but none of those are even the slightest bit important to me so it really doesn't matter.

I did some more research, and I don't think the range on the bike is much worse than most cruisers...so really, it isn't that big of a deal... :cheers:

I don't really ride more than an hour to an hour and a half before I need to stop anyway, so unless I am blasting at 160kph (100mph) I shouldn't have any issues.

Like I said...still haven't spent my money...but I'm getting closer!!   :icon_twisted: :icon_twisted:

Later.

Something else I thought I'd throw in again. It's been mentioned a couple of times but not really indepth...

1st: Went riding on the weekend with a bunch of people with bikes the likes of ZX9, Street triple, 1250 Bandits, Triumph Tiger, SV1000 and so on. The guy on the ZX9 now has a new respect for the GS - as do some of the others who were Surprised, lets just say, at the bike's ability in the twisties. Straights they win, hands down. But we had fun.

Anyway. At lunch the SV1000 rider remarked how he's just bought a 2nd Vstrom 650 - he now has three bikes, the Vstrom for him and his SV1000 and now a Vstrom for his son. So he certainly likes the Vstroms.

Onward...

You know how when a house by the wter is sold it is sold emphasizing the View. Well, you know what happens after a while? The view becomes meaningless. Cause you cannot live in the view you can only look at it. And as it is become Used to, it's not so magical as it once was. So the people are left only to the functionality of the dwelling.

To me, motorcycles are like the view. present, attitude, looks, styling, are things that you get used to. What lasts through it all and is still there once you don't notice the looks anymore, is the comfort and handling. Looks mean nothing when you ass stings. Looks mean nothing when you back is sore and achy from bad body mechanics due to the position of everything on the bike.

No matter how good it looks, if it's not comfortable to ride, you won't enjoy riding and you'll ride Much less or not at all.

Michael

You definitely won't keep a bike long or enjoy it if it's not a fun bike to ride, a bike can't survive off of looks alone. I can however say that I've owned bikes for years that I thought were good looking, and I still got joy just from standing next to it looking at it years later. It may not be as exciting as the first night you brought it home, but every time I run downstairs to grab a screwdriver I get the same exciting feeling again just seeing my bike so I can't completely agree that the 'view' will always fade away to a point that it's not worth anything anymore.

Anyway.... the reason I opened this thread, I came across this old comparison from Bike magazine from a couple years ago of the top 50 cornering bikes. As much as I assumed it would be a heavy pig, the MT01 ranked #19 out of the 50 bikes they graded, so it much still be a pretty decent and fun ride. Thought it was worth tossing in for your consideration..... http://www.steveturnbull.co.uk/buell/thexbpages/downloads/biketop50.pdf

Very interesting read and I noted there are some really old bikes at the top of the list as well  :thumb:

The MT-01 sounds flatulent  :nono: and I have never seen many of them on the road, which is usually a decent indicator of how useful they are.

The DL650 V-Strom has about 30 hp more than your GS. I think you may be surprised if you haven't ridden one yet.

Quote from: madjak30 on October 03, 2010, 01:19:06 PM
I just got back from a ride on my GS, and I still enjoy riding it.  
I'm going to have a hard time justifying a less efficient and smaller tank bike...I sometimes wonder if I would be happy just keeping the little Suzuki. Or maybe just getting the V-Strom DL650, same mileage with a bigger tank and more leg room...???

This is why I don't just run out and buy it...but in reality, my ride today was only 150kms...
Maybe I'm worrying about nothing...
Naaah...disreguard this whole post...I'll just get the bike I want, and make it work...
Later.

What to pick?
1.  MT-01
2.  Bandit
3.  V-strom
4.  Boulevard

No problem, I'm here to give you just what everyone needs. . .
Advice from a noobie!
Unfortunately the question can't be answered with "one" bike.  :nono:  Owning multiple bikes is the only answer.

Some facts. . .
You will need a heavy cruiser for your machismo.
You will need a V-Strom as a utility rig, unless you're a short old man or you plan on keeping your GS500.
And you really should have a street fighter like a Bandit for those days when you get home from work a bit angry and need to cleanse your demons.

Since you're obviously a man of good taste and sophisticated needs, I strongly suggest you get the Bandit first for your next bike. And by all means, hold onto the GS500 until you get a V-Strom to park next to the Bandit.
Glad I could help, :thumb:
-Ej-

I'm kind of partial to the blvd. maybe it's because I own one.....hard to tell  :dunno_black:.... I've got an 06 M50 that I bought used in the summer of 07. I noticed how you said you were worried about your size. I personally am a small guy but I have a very good friend who fits into the larger category. he had a volusia (carburated C50) and it hauled him around just fine. I went out and bought mine because after I rodde his, I fell in love. I've put 18xxx miles on it since I've owned it. all I do is change the oil and put gas in it. just my pair of cents. the other ones are good choices too tho.

Quote from: SAFE-T on October 29, 2010, 10:44:29 PM
The MT-01 sounds flatulent  :nono: and I have never seen many of them on the road, which is usually a decent indicator of how useful they are.

The DL650 V-Strom has about 30 hp more than your GS. I think you may be surprised if you haven't ridden one yet.

I quite like the sound of the bike, and as for not seeing any...well if you live in the States, they didn't import that bike...I don't think they had the confidence that it would sell, and it probably wouldn't have since it didn't sell well anywhere else...but I have been considering the Wee-Strom as well, although the power difference is more like 20Hp (47Hp in the GS, and 67Hp but still significant)...

Quote from: EndlessProject93 on October 30, 2010, 07:06:57 PM
I'm kind of partial to the blvd. maybe it's because I own one.....hard to tell  :dunno_black:.... I've got an 06 M50 that I bought used in the summer of 07. I noticed how you said you were worried about your size. I personally am a small guy but I have a very good friend who fits into the larger category. he had a volusia (carburated C50) and it hauled him around just fine. I went out and bought mine because after I rodde his, I fell in love. I've put 18xxx miles on it since I've owned it. all I do is change the oil and put gas in it. just my pair of cents. the other ones are good choices too tho.

The M50 was the bike I wanted when I started looking seriously at getting my license a couple of years ago...I don't know if I want to get the M90 because of the extra 120ish lbs over the M50...

I went for a ride this afternoon on my GS500...I was out for about 2.5hrs and I really enjoyed the ride, I actually didn't find the power of my bike lacking at all...so I may just wait a year and get the "upgrade" next September...get more experience before purchasing the next toy...???

I'm having a hell of a time making up my mind...I think I just like any bike...

I'll keep you posted...

Later.

I definitely have the hardest time making up my mind. There's always a few bikes that keep coming up to the top of the list, but as far as displace/hp it completely depends how I'm feeling very week. Definitely gonna want until next fall until I pick something else up for myself too. Great time of year to buy something. The deals that have been coming through craigslist have been ridiculous lately. Decent shape 600rrs and R1s for $2500, a couple srad gsxrs for $1500-1800.

As far as the noise of the MT-01. I used to hate anything that made a low toned v-twin noise but the more I started liking Buells over time the more I realized I didn't mind the noise at all. I had only hated it for so long because I associated it with HD, and that's enough to make you hate anything. Once I started to realize there were some pretty ok bikes making the same noises I learned to appreciate it. I'm actually not quite so fond of the noise I4s make anymore, and kinda prefer the v-twin noise.

Quote from: tt_four on October 31, 2010, 06:23:30 AM
I definitely have the hardest time making up my mind. There's always a few bikes that keep coming up to the top of the list, but as far as displace/hp it completely depends how I'm feeling very week. Definitely gonna want until next fall until I pick something else up for myself too. Great time of year to buy something. The deals that have been coming through craigslist have been ridiculous lately. Decent shape 600rrs and R1s for $2500, a couple srad gsxrs for $1500-1800.

As far as the noise of the MT-01. I used to hate anything that made a low toned v-twin noise but the more I started liking Buells over time the more I realized I didn't mind the noise at all. I had only hated it for so long because I associated it with HD, and that's enough to make you hate anything. Once I started to realize there were some pretty ok bikes making the same noises I learned to appreciate it. I'm actually not quite so fond of the noise I4s make anymore, and kinda prefer the v-twin noise.

Yes there is something about an angry twin that I love the sound of. It similar to hearing a really nice V8 car with good pipes.

I have to be honest. The day I bought my GS500E. 1991, Monterey, California. I walked in there with my Buddy that was a great rider.....I saw my bike sitting there and it called to me. I could have bought a Ninja, or what ever I just liked that bike! My friend siad wtf are you doing? I said to him I just like the way it looks! He bought a Zephir 550 which I rode many times and that was a great bike..he had done the jet kit and Yoshimir pipe and that bike could pull the wheel of the ground in any gear. In retrospect I am glad I chose that little red, white, and off grey bike. Had I chose bigger bike I might not be here today.

Buy the bike you want. If one calls to you buy it.

Quote from: madjak30 on October 30, 2010, 11:26:43 PMAs for not seeing any...well if you live in the States, they didn't import that bike...

I live in Sherwood Park

Quote from: SAFE-T on November 01, 2010, 10:05:34 AM
I live in Sherwood Park

I live in Sylvan Lake, and have seen a couple but you are right...not a common bike.  Yamaha built it as the Halo bike and fitted most of the R1 brakes and chassis on the bike and tuned the Warrior V-twin (extra 20Hp and 10ft/lb torque) and rammed it in...the pricing on the bike was a big problem...MSRP was $16099 in 2006...for that money you could buy a faster bikes, or a more comfortable bikes that were just as quick.  It really didn't break any ground (although you would think Yamaha invented a new category of bike when it came out from the way they presented the bike) since Buell had been building this type of thing for a while...but the finish of the bike was second to none, and it oozed personality (it is pretty much a love it or hate it thing)...I've been looking at the Bandit and the M90, but couldn't decide on a bike (Bandit for performance and M90 for sound and torque)...then I found a MT-01 in Red Deer at $7350 for a 2006 w/ 14,000kms...or they also have a new 2006 still in the show room for $9500ish...same money as the Bandit and slightly less than the M90...I still can't decide...the big thing holding me back from the MT-01 is the fuel range...15L tank and just less than 6L/100kms, so 250kms if you run the tank dry...can prove a little short unless you like stopping for fuel between Calgary and Edmonton...

I've decided to wait until next year to get the new bike, but have also started looking at smaller cc bikes...the V-strom DL650 and the Suzuki M50...reasonable power, good fuel consumption...the Wee strom has a huge tank and will have massive range, the M50 has the same size tank as the MT-01, but uses less fuel...should make it over 300kms before running out, but still short but do-able (spoiled with the GS500 which I have gone 350kms and still had a couple of liters left)  The other reason for the M50 being in there, I can get a new '09 SE for $7000obo...cheaper than the used MT-01...

Decisions, decisions, decisions..........

Later.

Not sure how much real-world difference there would be between a new '09 Bandit and an older model. The ABS of course, but aside from a larger (half) fairing and a nick more displacement I'd think they were the same bikes, no ? The old air-cooled GSF1200 motor was renowned as a good touring mount on a budget. Used ones are around $3000.

Other good stuff that is uber-affordable on the used market include Honda's '98-01 VFR800 and Suzuki's SV1000S, both for $3000-$4000 in mint condition if you dig a bit.

More torque and lower in the rev range...fuel injection...and a sixth gear...other than that, not much really...

I am working on a deal (maybe) on the demo model that is an '09...so I should be able to get it at a pretty decent discount...just don't tell ttfour, he'll be some dissapointed... :dunno_black:

Later.

ttfour won't be the only one thats disappointed.  We've all been watching you anguish over every decision you've made for over a month now.  
Honestly it has provided more drama then any midday soap could ever dream of  :laugh:

Oh like I wasn't gonna find out!!  >:(

Quote from: uninhibited on November 06, 2010, 10:20:54 PM
ttfour won't be the only one thats disappointed.  We've all been watching you anguish over every decision you've made for over a month now.  
Honestly it has provided more drama then any midday soap could ever dream of  :laugh:

Man...that is just sad...my blabbering on here has turned into a day time soap??  "As the wheel turns"... :icon_mrgreen:

Glad you're along for the ride...but I'm not sure it's quite over yet...tune in next episode...??

Later.

Hey, like all soaps, when one story ends another begins. So as soon as you've obtained the new toy, someone else can post their dilemma  :thumb:

Michael

There's always gonna be somebody. I debated for a whole year on what I want, finally settled and found one. 2 months later my wife wants a puppy we don't need, so I negotiate in a bike I don't need to the deal, and I'm again trying to think of what I might want. It's not really important ahead of time because I'm just going to buy whatever pops up as a good deal at the time, but it's still fun to agonize about it.

I just found out that Suzuki is making a GSR750 which I was drooling over pretty good this weekend. Since I started riding I've been whining and complaining 'why won't suzuki maked a naked version of their gsxr750?!' and they finally did!

As the World Turns here..I am so happy with my GS's but you know you always want a little more? If I could get a good deal on a nice GSXR 600 I would jump on it. But it would have to be Yellow and Black and be close to stock as possible. :thumb:

Owning multiple bikes and having a clean record at my age I might be able to afford the insurance? :wink:

It's a plus being over 25, but I still just get liability. I'd rather buy a cheap bike and not worry about it than pay a ton for insurance. If I crash it I'll turn it into a street fighter. If I seriously crash it out I'll just part it and probably want a break from riding for a little while, then I can get a new one later. You just don't win on insurance with sportbikes. $110 in liability for a year is good enough for me.

LOL, well I have my motorcycle endorsement for over 20 years and I think, my insurance would be a little cheaper but I know what you mean that is what I pay for 2 GS's a year! :thumb:

Quote from: tt_four on November 08, 2010, 11:59:46 AM
There's always gonna be somebody. I debated for a whole year on what I want, finally settled and found one. 2 months later my wife wants a puppy we don't need, so I negotiate in a bike I don't need to the deal, and I'm again trying to think of what I might want. It's not really important ahead of time because I'm just going to buy whatever pops up as a good deal at the time, but it's still fun to agonize about it.

I just found out that Suzuki is making a GSR750 which I was drooling over pretty good this weekend. Since I started riding I've been whining and complaining 'why won't suzuki maked a naked version of their gsxr750?!' and they finally did!

Does it look like the GSR600? Look at it from the back if it does. That tail light just does not do it for me.

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff62/icecreamhands/XTR_SUZ_GSR600_06_RSB.jpg?t=1289299378)

It had a few similar styling cues from the gsr600, but it's definitely way less bulky. Just google "gsr 750" or check out the european suzuki page. There's a few videos on youtube too.

Okay...now I have changed my mind again...I know, what a shock  :o :icon_rolleyes: :flipoff:

Now I am back to thinking about cruisers...but not the one that I was thinking before...realatively new blood...

2009 Honda VTX1300C...

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TL-gZYvR2kI/AAAAAAAAASU/7Y4UoVaG-WE/2009-Honda-VTX1300Ca-small.jpg)

or the 2009 Suzuki Boulevard M50...

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TCreFGsBoxI/AAAAAAAAAFY/VjezxQY6lhY/s720/2009-Suzuki-BoulevardM50SpecialEditionb.jpg)

I must be feeling old...but it's not the power of the GS500 that I don't like (but it could have some more), it's the leg room...I also tend to ride the GS a little agressively and I think it is to do with the riding position...both of these bikes have more performance than the GS (well, maybe not handling...but accelleration wise they do).  I prefer the Suzuki for the fuel injection and the look of the exhaust.  I have tried the M50 and felt pretty cool riding it but the Honda would have that little extra power.  The Suzuki would be cheaper to insure and burn less fuel....

I know tt_four will be a little dissappointed but these are in addition to the already being considered bikes...nothing like adding more to the mix, but I am trying to save a few bucks as well...my truck will need replacing in the next year or so...and I need a diesel (not cheap) no older than 2yrs old...

Hmm.... buy an MT-01

Triumph America - spent around 30 minutes on one. No comfort issues after 30 minutes. Can't say the same about Yamaha Cruisers - less than 10 minutes and I have an aching back. The America would have Roughly the same performance specs as a M50 while being physically smaller - and in My opinion, better looking. Much more $$$, though, than a Suzuki.
(http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200610/2007-triumph-america-13_460x0w.jpg)

Michael

PS... Our local MC Store is having a Demo Day. So I'm taking a few things for a spin... SV650, Bandit1250, CB900. I'll add some thought of them to this thread to confound you more  :icon_twisted:

I have an M50. I love it. it's an 06 with 18xxx miles on it.

Quote from: mister on November 19, 2010, 02:31:07 AM
PS... Our local MC Store is having a Demo Day. So I'm taking a few things for a spin... SV650, Bandit1250, CB900. I'll add some thought of them to this thread to confound you more  :icon_twisted:

I tried to talk my wife into moving "down under"...but she doesn't like being that far from family...and the bugs, they freak her out...but there are a lot of similarities between Canada and Australia...except for the weather...

Anyway, not what I wanted to say...when I test rode the Bandit 1250s... :woohoo:...man, what a power house...from 3000rpm to around 8000rpm it pulls like the afterburner is on and the speed will show it...I haven't tried the other two, but have heard good things about the SV650 (similar riding position to the GS)...the Bandit was a better fit for me than the SV, but I liked the sound of the M50 and I felt pretty cool riding it...still thinking about the MT-01 and the M90 as well...

Have fun test riding, I know I did...

Later.

I ended up riding four different bikes today. So in the order of riding them...

Suzuki SV650s
(http://www.sv650.org/gallery/pic29/jan%20sv650_03.jpg) (http://forum.svrider.com/photoalbum/albums/userpics/21622/normal_bike%20pics%2031-03-2007%20012%20(Custom).jpg)

The first thing you notice when you mount the SV650 is the forward lean needed to reach the handlebars. While someone looking from the side might not think you are leaning forward too much, compared to the GS the lean is substantial - at least it was on the bike I rode.

Taking off, even at slow speed, you can feel the torqueiness of the engine. And giving an extra throttle twist sees the bike pull ahead nicely without sounding strained. The sound was throaty. The handlebar buzz from the Vtwin was not that great. It was there and maybe might play an issue after an hour in the seat at highway speed, but otherwise not too bad and something I'd assume you'd get used to easily. The upper body lean would be no good for those with a weaker core strength. I managed alright for the 15 or so minutes I was on the bike. But otherwise I found it a little annoying.

The worst part for me, though, was the bumpiness of the ride. Bumps the GS seems to absorb were readily transfered to me on the SV650s. That took confidence away from me and a few bends I bounced around. Big negative for me. maybe it was the way this particular bike was set up and another, different, SV650 would be different.

Suzuki Bandit 1250s (I wanted to ride the Naked but they didn't have one).
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3165/2815010795_11f44809c4.jpg?v=0) (http://www.moto123.com/ArtImages/89290/inline_01.jpg)

Hopping off the SV650s onto the Bandit the more upright riding position stands out. The height at which you seemed to be above the dials and road was also noticeable. The stock bike was quieter. But the power... oh my... so smooth and effortless. Even if you were in the wrong gear like one gear too high, the engine just pulled you right out without a hint of struggling. And the ride was supremely comfortable. The only two Issues I had with the bike were...

Cornering: While the bike does corner well and there is no sudden Drop into a corner, it felt somewhat reluctant compared to the SV650s and the GS. I put this down to the longer wheelbase and is something that would be quickly gotten used to.

Seat: The seat seemed to be angled ever so slightly towards the tank. And I felt as if I was sliding into the tank. Of course, this may hint I should have been sitting closer to the tank - and I probably should have - but it was something I noticed and something I got used to in the brief time I spent on the bike.

Yamaha FZ6
(http://www.minhamoto.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/yamaha3.jpg) (http://www.motospace.com.br/imagens/grande/83_325346.jpg)

This bike was an unintended ride. The bike I wanted to ride was not there. So took this for a spin instead.

First impression is how upright the seating is. I was expecting to lean forward much more than I did.

Following this... the first real corner I took on this bike I felt something not right. As if the front dug in a little or the back slid out! Either way, it took away all confidence I had in the bike to lean without doing something odd. As the ride continued this oddness in a lean disappeared and I figured it was inadequate tire pressure.

The engine sounded ok as the throttle was twisted. But while it sounded like it was working - and it was cause it needed to be revved to work - it seemed to be doing it harder than the SV650. That is, a quick burst on the throttle was more effective on the SV650 than the FZ6. Of course, maybe I wasn't working the FZ6 enough. In which case, this simply shows a lack of torque compared to the SV650.

I also noticed, that coming on to the throttle after being off, was a dead spot where there was nothing and then, suddenly, there was something. Not good when coming onto the throttle in a corner you may have come off the throttle on. Sure, ideally, we should always have some throttle, in an ideal world. But there are times when we don't. And expecting some driving force, not getting it, and then getting it suddenly, isn't too safe in my books.

Honda CB900 (Honda 919) Hornet
(http://www.roadbikemag.com/forum/images/919_riding.jpg) (http://st3.sulitstatic.com/images/2010/0812/105539165_2003honda919.jpg)

Hoping on the Hornet I felt at home. Nothing felt odd about the riding position or peg position. The throttle response was smooth like the bandit. But unlike the bandit, this thing leant into corners effortlessly, just like the GS. In fact, if you set out to make a more powerful GS500, I would have to say the result would be the Honda 919.

Conclusion...

All bikes had mirrors that remained vibration free. All bikes, when the mirrors were set correctly, gave adequate vision. In order of...

Cornering Preference (feel as it cornered - naturalness, stability, etc. - while the SV650 felt easier to lean, it also felt less stable on the road)

1 - Honda 919 (CB900 Hornet)
2 - Suzuki Bandit 1250s
3 - Suzuki SV650s
4 - Yamaha FZ6 (even though this did not Bounce around corners and took them Smoother, it is last cause of the squirliness I felt on the first corner, other FZ6's might be different)

Comfort Preference

1 - Honda 919
2 - Bandit 1250s
3 - FZ6
4 - SV650s

Power / Feel of Power / Smoothness of Power

1 - Bandit 1250s (the Honda would be equal first on smoothness and feel, but, obviously, it is smaller than a 1250 so has less of it. But how often do you do 125mph / 200kph?)
2 - Honda 919
3 - SV650
4 - FZ6

Conclusion Preference (which would I buy)

1 - Honda 919
2 - Bandit 1250s
3 - FZ6
4 - SV650 (if the suspension could be softened and the handlebars raised and brought back then this would move to position 3, but as comfort is paramount it drops to position 4)

My Experience At The Dealers...

Dealer 1 - SV650 and Bandit 1250s
Pleasant. No sales pressure. Talked like a normal guy. Even said at the end before I had a chance to say anything... when you're ready to buy, give me a call... and handed me his business card. Never asked how much I had to spend or any of those typical Qualifying questions - when are you looking to buy, what do you have to trade, etc.

Dealer 2 - FZ6
Had originally gone there to ride a Honda 919 they Said they had. On the phone had even suggested to put a Holding Deposit on it Subject To Satisfactory Test Ride. Oh yeah, that ain't highpressure selling. After a couple more textbook selling tricks I said... listen, stop with the sales tricks they told you at bike selling school, ok, and let's just go for a ride and talk like normal people... at which point he became more normal. He tried a couple tricks again later and I told him to stop with the sales pressure techniques and he went normal again. Overall, though, a negative vibe.

Dealer 3 - Honda 919
Salesgirl took me for the test ride. She rode a Ninja 250 cause that's all she had a license for. She was NOT going to go on the highway even though they are right next to it, and was just going to ride around the block. I said I wanted to go on the highway. We did... for about 500 yards (sheesh). Admitedly, she has only been at the dealer for 2 weeks. And she just about committed the biggest sales sin going.... not getting my phone number  :o But overall, a pleasant test ride experience - ride should have been longer, but from a salesman / customer POV, no bad vibes, no high pressure. Though she wore no gear bar a helmet WTF?

If you have any questions about any of these bikes that I haven't covered here, please ask.

Michael

You sir are a bike slu la la la ut! I hope your GS doesn't find out.  :nono:

Oh yeh I am jealous. I would love to test ride a heap of bikes one day too but you gotta put up with the wanker dealers. I rang up about a bike that was in Townsville the other day to find out how much it was to ship a 2nd hand Triumph Thruxton they had to Brissy. Dealer told me total cost including the bike was $14,200. Now I explained to him this was ridiculous as I could purchase a new one for $14,999 on the road from Nerang. Tried to spin some BS about how it was a good price for the bike. I disagreed, he then proceeded to say he could do it for $13,999 but I would have to commit right then and there. Yeh right buddy, Ill cya later then.

I find bike sales people worse than car dealers. Like you said all you want is to be treated normal and have a normal convo about the bike you are looking at without the bullsh1t!.


By the way.....was the salesgirl cute?  :icon_lol:

Quote from: mister on November 20, 2010, 01:49:18 AM
And she just about committed the biggest sales sin going.... not getting my phone number  :o But overall, a pleasant test ride experience - ride should have been longer, but from a salesman / customer POV, no bad vibes, no high pressure. Though she wore no gear bar a helmet WTF?

If you have any questions about any of these bikes that I haven't covered here, please ask.

Michael

ive been to a couple of team  moto stores in Brisbane and i must say they do hire the hot ones  :D, there is one at the Virginia branch "oh my god" she made me as horny as this little guy  :icon_twisted: the was she filled her bucket of water with her low cut jeans and itty bitty singlet  :kiss3:

the only shame was (besides she was standing there watching me drool over her) was half hour latter she was taking the bikes out the front and she could ride better then me and most people i know.

Quote from: XLAR8 on November 20, 2010, 09:09:51 PM

Quote from: mister on November 20, 2010, 01:49:18 AM
And she just about committed the biggest sales sin going.... not getting my phone number  :o But overall, a pleasant test ride experience - ride should have been longer, but from a salesman / customer POV, no bad vibes, no high pressure. Though she wore no gear bar a helmet WTF?

If you have any questions about any of these bikes that I haven't covered here, please ask.

Michael

ive been to a couple of team  moto stores in Brisbane and i must say they do hire the hot ones  :D, there is one at the Virginia branch "oh my god" she made me as horny as this little guy  :icon_twisted: the was she filled her bucket of water with her low cut jeans and itty bitty singlet  :kiss3:

the only shame was (besides she was standing there watching me drool over her) was half hour latter she was taking the bikes out the front and she could ride better then me and most people i know.

+1 on Team Moto female hiring. The salesgirl was Pro Motorcycles. The bad vide was Team Moto. Always always bad vibe from them. {shudder}.

Walked into Virginia once, from the back. I just want to browse, right. I glance at the tires on the right "May I help you?" No thanks. I move a little to the left and am looking at the luggage another "Can I help you" No thanks. Towards the front left, along the front of the store (not actually out the front door and back down the right to the rear. Another three different "Can I help you" in that time. Oh for fark sake, leave me a lone will you, I think, and walk right back out. Walking up the side of the building I go to Triumph. Looking at the bikes, even Inside their showroom, NOONE approaches me. I sit on a couple of bikes outside. I take a photo of one. Still noone approaches. I guess they have a different technique right next door at Team Moto Triumph HA!

Something else I noticed... the Triumph store was staffed by older staff while Suzuki was staffed by the younger staff. Maybe cause only old farts by Triumphs and dealing with a 22 year old right out of sales school putting the Hard Sell on will NOT be tolerated. Cause more mature people like to look, kick tyres and Then, when they are ready, they will seek someone for additional info - a lot more knowledgeable about bikes than the staff anyway.

Michael

team moto only just bought that store, it was northside suzuki. maybe you were there just after the change over and they were worried if they were keeping their jobs.

on an other note the chick iam talking about is fireblade girl... arrrr future wife for sure (there is a chick that gets around my area on a FB, full race position g-banger hanging out the back)

Quote from: madjak30 on November 19, 2010, 08:57:18 AMThe Bandit was a better fit for me than the SV, but I liked the sound of the M50 and I felt pretty cool riding it...still thinking about the MT-01 and the M90 as well...

You just need a little bigger bike with a little more power.

I have always found that I ride to the type of bike I have - if the bike has more power and handling, I use it. So I tend to buy motorcycles that have a little less power and handling than I would like so I ride them a little less aggressively than I would like, just to be on the safe side. 

Quote from: SAFE-T on November 24, 2010, 10:27:33 AM

Quote from: madjak30 on November 19, 2010, 08:57:18 AMThe Bandit was a better fit for me than the SV, but I liked the sound of the M50 and I felt pretty cool riding it...still thinking about the MT-01 and the M90 as well...

You just need a little bigger bike with a little more power.

I have always found that I ride to the type of bike I have - if the bike has more power and handling, I use it. So I tend to buy motorcycles that have a little less power and handling than I would like so I ride them a little less aggressively than I would like, just to be on the safe side. 

It was the M50 that got me seriously looking at bikes about three years ago, and it is a little more powerful than the GS...not "oh my god", but more...the "oh my god" bike is the Bandit  :woohoo:...but I think I would ride that harder than the other options...my only concern with the M50 is that if my wife decides, once I get a cruiser, that she wants to go for a ride...well, I don't think it will have the poop to do it...combined we are nearly 500lbs  :oops:...poor bike...I weigh 275lbs, and my wife is not a light weight (I don't know what she weighs...and I don't want to guess...it's better for my health... :icon_mrgreen:)

I am trying to loose weight over the winter, but how much???  Who knows...that's why I am looking pretty seriously at the M90 (small lie, I like the idea of the extra power anyway).  I still like the looks of the M50, but I am finding I like most bikes with an engine and wheels  :thumb:...

I think I will stick with the plan of wait for the demo season and try them all again...

Later.

Quote from: madjak30 on November 24, 2010, 12:25:49 PMI think I will stick with the plan of wait for the demo season and try them all again...

Years ago I had a friend with a 750 Intruder, and later I had a VX800. Both had essentially the same motor, which these days Suzuki uses in the M50 and C50. I never really liked the Intruder, but the VX800 was pretty decent. The wife and I rode it two up from Edmonton to Calgary and back and it gave pretty much the same gas mileage both ways no matter how fast or slow you went.

Now that I have had a bike with about 40 more hp for a couple of years and have done longer trips two-up with it, I think the weaker motor might bother me a little more. I rode a C50T last spring and was quite underwhelmed with it. A smaller motor will go two-up, but it's more work. For a shorter trip it would be OK but if you want to ride for several days all the shifting and revving the engine to get some giddyup becomes a distraction. And the C90 felt like a big slug, although it had more power than the 50. 

From what I can see M90's and M109's can both be found in the used market within $500 of each other, and feature an engine design that is supposed to be more performance oriented than the early 90's design of the M50/C50/C90.

The biggest drawback the cruisers have going against them is their weight ~ the M90 is 723 lbs, compared to your GS500 (380 lbs).

In the case of the M109R, it makes 106 hp for its 764 lbs. In comparison my VFR800 makes 110hp for its 481 lbs., whereas the Suzuki GSF1250SEA Bandit makes around 100 hp for its 603 lbs.

The key difference is there is no replacement for displacement. The bigger motors all make a lot more torque, which is something you will appreciate two-up on a long trip. The M90/109 v-twins greater displacement will give them more grunt off the bottom vs. the Bandit, but once you are out of 1st gear and into some revs the multi-cyclinder motor will be gone while the v-twin just runs out of breath.

Basically, the further afield you intend to go with a passenger the more you should consider the bigger bike. I was amazed at the number of Yamaha FJR1300's I saw this summer in British Columbia from Texas, Arizona and California.

But if you ride mostly solo and/or within Alberta/BC/Washington/Montana I would go with the lightest bike I could find that made 80-100 hp for the least amount of money.

So, back to the...

MT-01, Bandit, M90...V-Strom DL1000... :dunno_black:

What was it...As the Wheel Turns... :icon_lol: :cookoo:

Later.

lacking a choice of voting for a Triumph .. street or speed Triple... i refuse to comment... or even post... oh damn!

I would choose the v-strom because i'd like to change riding style, even if i like most street bikes and cause i need the protection from the wind...

I think I already mentioned the street triple, and he wasn't going for it.

Quote from: tt_four on November 24, 2010, 02:39:41 PM
I think I already mentioned the street triple, and he wasn't going for it.

theres no accounting for taste then... in any of us  :icon_mrgreen:

Quotethere is a chick that gets around my area on a FB, full race position g-banger hanging out the back

Hmmm... is this a lighter colored bike. Cause I'm pretty sure I saw this two-wheeled princess in the city. Small body hugging tank top. Plait dangling down the her back. G Banger popping up from her tight jeans to say "hi" to the world as she leaned forward gripping the bars in readiness to zoom off into the traffic.

QuoteIn comparison my VFR800 makes 110hp for its 481 lbs., whereas the Suzuki GSF1250SEA Bandit makes around 100 hp for its 603 lbs.
...
I would go with the lightest bike I could find that made 80-100 hp for the least amount of money.

Just double checked the Wiki for the CB900 (Honda 919) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CB900F and it's also around 110hp at 481lbs at 9k rpm

Another in that realm is the SV1000. The naked has a more upright riding position to the sport. Around 120hp and 420lbs dry weight.

On the Aust Suzuki website is says the 1250 (naked) has a Curb Mass of 247kg (around 543lbs). Interestingly, the GSX650 has a curb mass of 241kg (around 530lbs).

But with the Bandit 1250, it's all about the torque. A gear or two too high, twist the throttle and away you go. Nice  :thumb:. So even though it might be like 10 HP less than the Viffer or 919 at peak, it wins the torque battle hands down and, frankly, you do Not notice the extra weight it carries. And if you will be riding two up, torque is your friend.

Quick Word On Bike Weight: Above I mentioned the GSX650's weight. And in comparison to other bikes in the 600 range - SV, GSR, Gladius, FZ6, ER6 - it's a beast. It's like riding one of the other bikes with an 80 pound coed on the back all day long. BUT, in comparison to say a C50, it's a featherweight. Plus, once you're rolling you won't be thinking... dang this thing is heavy. If you ride your GS to a dealership and take a GSX for a spin, you'll remember the power difference over any published weight difference.

Same applies to all bikes. Wet weight or Curb Mass is nice to know. But really... in the really real world of rolling two wheels, it means jack. You will most likely not notice the weight difference between a Viffer, 919 and Bandit 1250. You might notice the torque difference and how much/little you need to work gears for The Type Of Riding You Do. But really? All bikes up there will leave the GS in their dust. And a Riding Preference of one over the other will come down to Comfort and Handling - what do you feel more comfortable on and which handles better.

Comparing just the 1250 to the 919, for me the 919 is more comfortable and handles better. Yes it has less torque than the bandit but then compared to the GS which struggles in its wake, the 919 is more torquey. My impression was... if you were going to keep the GS ergonomics (how it felt when sitting on it and riding it) but make a more powerful version, it would be the 919.

Here's a comparison of some specs... the figures are Length, Wheelbase, height, width, seat height...

...... Lgth... Wlb.... Hght... Wdt... Sit
500... 2080... 1405... 1060... 800... 790
919... 2125... 1460... 1085... 750... 795
Bnd... 2130... 1485... 1095... 790... 785/805
Vst... 2295... 1535... 1395... 910... 840
MT1... 2185... 1525... 1105... 800... 825
M90... 2410... 1690... 1100... 870... 716

Which really means nothing much, as just something to show the subtle dimensional differences between the bikes. I always thought the Boulevards are just physically large bikes compared to other bikes in the same engine size/range.

Take all Your choices for a spin, multiple spins even. You can do this while your waiting - depending on weather, of course. There is no rush here.

Michael

Quote from: mister on November 20, 2010, 01:49:18 AM
I ended up riding four different bikes today. So in the order of riding them...

The first thing you notice when you mount the SV650 is the forward lean needed to reach the handlebars. While someone looking from the side might not think you are leaning forward too much, compared to the GS the lean is substantial - at least it was on the bike I rode.

Taking off, even at slow speed, you can feel the torqueiness of the engine. And giving an extra throttle twist sees the bike pull ahead nicely without sounding strained. The sound was throaty. The handlebar buzz from the Vtwin was not that great. It was there and maybe might play an issue after an hour in the seat at highway speed, but otherwise not too bad and something I'd assume you'd get used to easily. The upper body lean would be no good for those with a weaker core strength. I managed alright for the 15 or so minutes I was on the bike. But otherwise I found it a little annoying.

The worst part for me, though, was the bumpiness of the ride. Bumps the GS seems to absorb were readily transfered to me on the SV650s. That took confidence away from me and a few bends I bounced around. Big negative for me. maybe it was the way this particular bike was set up and another, different, SV650 would be different.

If you put an SM2 bar on the GS the lean angle take a ride or two to get used to. I love it...feels like I have more control. The GS was a bit bumpy for my taste before I adjusted the preload on the rear shock.

Love the review!   :cheers:

Thanks Redhawk. I hope to have another up today, as a comparison.

Madjak, here's a little something to whet your whistle...

Ducati announces AMG partnership - and releases the 1200cc Diavel power cruiser http://www.gizmag.com/ducati-diavel-2011-1200cc-cruiser-power/17031/

(http://www.uncrate.com/men/images/2010/11/ducati-diavel.jpg)

Michael

I was looking at the 919, but the riding position is too much like the GS...too tight...I fit, but if I am going to upgrade I want more power and leg room...fuel injection is a plus, but not manditory...

The reason for no Triumph, BMW, Aprillia, etc...the closest dealers are 150kms away...I have Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Victory and Harley Davidson within 30kms...that's why I have only been looking at those brands.

The bikes I actually like is quite long...

Kawasaki Z1000
             ZR7S
             Versys
             Vulcan 900 Custom

Suzuki    V-Strom DL650
            V-Strom DL1000
            Bandit 1250S
            Boulevard M90
            Boulevard M50
            GSX650F
            Gladius
            SV650
            Katana 750
            DRZ400SM

Honda    VTX1300C
            VT1300C Sabre
            CBF1000
            919

Yamaha  MT-01
            FZ8
            Fazer 8
            FZ-1

Vicotry   Vegas 8-Ball

Harley Davidson V-Rod

Buell      XB9S
            XB12S

The downfall is that I only have $8000 to spend on a bike (depending on what my bonus is...)...so used is the word of the day...remember...Canadian market, not the States...prices are higher.

That is how the list got narrowed down to a few bikes...most of them price eliminated, others it was the riding position or vibration of the bike...

Later.

Because I know you're curious.... this is my approved list

Quote from: madjak30 on November 24, 2010, 08:05:07 PM

Kawasaki Z1000        

Suzuki   
            Gladius (feel like it would be too small of a bike for you though)
            SV650
            DRZ400SM (kinda wanting one of these myself at the moment)

Honda   
            919

Yamaha  MT-01
            FZ8 (basically an underpowered fz1, I'd approve, but really think there's no reason not to just get an fz1)
            FZ-1


Buell      XB9S
            XB12S (Yes! mine is a 9, and I love it, but I'd recommend the 12, I also only paid $3200 for mine, not sure what that is in canadian)

Quote from: madjak30 on November 24, 2010, 08:05:07 PM
I was looking at the 919, but the riding position is too much like the GS...too tight...I fit, but if I am going to upgrade I want more power and leg room...fuel injection is a plus, but not manditory...

The reason for no Triumph, BMW, Aprillia, etc...the closest dealers are 150kms away...I have Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Victory and Harley Davidson within 30kms...that's why I have only been looking at those brands.

The bikes I actually like is quite long...

Kawasaki Z1000
             ZR7S
             Versys
             Vulcan 900 Custom

Suzuki    V-Strom DL650
            V-Strom DL1000
            Bandit 1250S
            Boulevard M90
            Boulevard M50
            GSX650F
            Gladius
            SV650
            Katana 750
            DRZ400SM

Honda    VTX1300C
            VT1300C Sabre
            CBF1000
            919

Yamaha  MT-01
            FZ8
            Fazer 8
            FZ-1

Vicotry   Vegas 8-Ball

Harley Davidson V-Rod

Buell      XB9S
            XB12S

The downfall is that I only have $8000 to spend on a bike (depending on what my bonus is...)...so used is the word of the day...remember...Canadian market, not the States...prices are higher.

That is how the list got narrowed down to a few bikes...most of them price eliminated, others it was the riding position or vibration of the bike...

Later.

Quote from: madjak30 on November 24, 2010, 08:05:07 PM
I was looking at the 919, but the riding position is too much like the GS...too tight...I fit, but if I am going to upgrade I want more power and leg room...fuel injection is a plus, but not manditory...

The reason for no Triumph, BMW, Aprillia, etc...the closest dealers are 150kms away...I have Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Victory and Harley Davidson within 30kms...that's why I have only been looking at those brands.

The bikes I actually like is quite long...

Kawasaki Z1000
             ZR7S
             Versys
             Vulcan 900 Custom

Suzuki    V-Strom DL650
            V-Strom DL1000
            Bandit 1250S
            Boulevard M90
            Boulevard M50
            GSX650F
            Gladius
            SV650
            Katana 750
            DRZ400SM

Honda    VTX1300C
            VT1300C Sabre
            CBF1000
            919

Yamaha  MT-01
            FZ8
            Fazer 8
            FZ-1

Vicotry   Vegas 8-Ball

Harley Davidson V-Rod

Buell      XB9S
            XB12S

The downfall is that I only have $8000 to spend on a bike (depending on what my bonus is...)...so used is the word of the day...remember...Canadian market, not the States...prices are higher.

That is how the list got narrowed down to a few bikes...most of them price eliminated, others it was the riding position or vibration of the bike...

Later.

Ok i think i can understand what you need... I'd say you must avoid all street bikes...they are all, less or more tight--like gs. Zr7--i've ridden it, more leg room and upright, bandits almost like gs, cbf1000 is more to vstroms...

and maybe just test yourself to a different style

how about the kawa versys? the new one is awesome--i haven't ridden it but i believe is marvelous... and has some differences..new footpeg position--more relaxing driving--less vibrations--a little larger tank--many parts(genuine and aftermarket...side cases etc), you can put a lower seat. better rear suspension for riders back. Maybe you can find in this bike the ergonomics you are looking for. And from tests,everyone says for very very hight mpg... no, i don't work for kawa believe me. I like that bike--maybe my next one if i was to buy a new one...

I think vstrom is a better cruiser and better protection too. It is heavier or it seems to be, especially in traffic. Kawa is easier  in traffic and maybe funniest to ride...

http://newproductlaunch.kawasaki.com/Products/Overview.aspx?productid=433&featured

I'd say, buy what you feel more comfortable on... :thumb:

I agree, comfort is the main goal...the Versys got taken off the list due to vibrations...I haven't tested the bike myself, but read lots of reviews...

The V-Strom is still on the list, it is probably the most comfortable bike...not sure if a 650cc is enough for what I want (probably is), and the 1000cc has some fuelling glitch between 2500-3500rpm...??

The ZR7S was on the list for a long time...but I would prefer the fuel injection.

The Bandit has about an extra 1.5" of leg room, and makes a big difference for riding comfort.

The MT-01 has the same or slightly more than the Bandit.

And the cruisers have your feet out front, so the bend of the knee isn't an issue.  I don't want to have to change bikes again after a year, so I am being more cautious this time...hence the problem making up my mind...

Later.

Hmm, what i've heard about the vstrom 1000 is that it needs much more fuel from 650--the 650 is economy. But it's a bigger engine and torque of course---maybe you will need it on road with passenger and baggages and 100-120mph...depends on needs...

And ok with cruisers like vulcan, the bent of knees isn't a problem, but are you going to be ok after one hour of riding? your back may have issues...i don't know. It seems to be a comfortable riding position in shop but through time, things may change and you get tired... :dunno_black: but it's personal of course. For me, the best riding position is when my back is a little bit ''foreword'', with a little support of legs. I mean something like this, but with handlebars 1-2 inches higher...:

(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad44/citygs/RidingImagedrivel.gif)


i used this source:
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/138-streetfighter/100041-streetfighter-riding-position-comparison.html

You can find in there some others pics too.

Street rode for me seems to have very sophisticated ergonomics... and vstrom is comfy too on long rides--maybe, if you get tired from the upright position, you could lean a little bit forward...

If a friend of yours can give you his cruiser or other bike for 2-3 hours you could figure out what suits you, in case you have some questions :wink:.

You buy me one of those and I'll be sure to ride it  :thumb: :icon_twisted:...I think I'll stick to my few choices...that gives me enough trouble choosing... :dunno_black:

Later.

So, Madjak, is the issue with the GS's ergonomics more a Leg thing than back angle thing?

I sometimes ride with a guy on a C50, he had back issues so bought the over-priced backrest for the rider so he had something to lean back on. Another guy on a Yammy cruiser rides with a back-brace wrapped around him - I've ridden a few Yammy cruisers and my back kills after like 10 minutes.

One of the things with buying a bike for the riding you do, is that the riding you do Will change over time. Having said that, though, most bikes can be used for whatever style of riding you do within their respective limits. And bike ergonomics can be changed - pegs lowered/raised, bars raised/widened/forward/back.

IF you will be having the wife on board on some rides - not just a maybe, but for real - then She needs to hop on the bikes with you. So you know She has enough room behind you and won't be interfering with your riding comfort and has enough comfort herself and won't be a fidget-ass.

Michael

Just missed a '98 VFR800 in Calgary for $2500. Had 50,000 km on it but for an engine design that Honda originally tested for 450,000 km back in 1982 in it's 1st generation, this is nothing.

I don't even think you could replace your current GS500 for $2500  :icon_eek:

Quote from: mister on November 25, 2010, 07:36:45 PM
So, Madjak, is the issue with the GS's ergonomics more a Leg thing than back angle thing?

IF you will be having the wife on board on some rides - not just a maybe, but for real - then She needs to hop on the bikes with you. So you know She has enough room behind you and won't be interfering with your riding comfort and has enough comfort herself and won't be a fidget-ass.

Michael

It's a leg thing...knees to be exact...I am getting used to the position, but if I am upgrading, I will be getting something with more leg room.  I like the postion of the GS, I would just like to have more leg room...as for the wife riding...no chance, she has no interest in the bike at all...

Quote from: SAFE-T on November 25, 2010, 08:43:49 PM
Just missed a '98 VFR800 in Calgary for $2500. Had 50,000 km on it but for an engine design that Honda originally tested for 450,000 km back in 1982 in it's 1st generation, this is nothing.

I don't even think you could replace your current GS500 for $2500  :icon_eek:

Nope, I will be putting the GS on Kijiji in the spring for $3000...we'll see what offers I get...unless, of course, I can't decide what bike to get...or the company doesn't make their budget projections for the year and the bonus structure is canned... >:( :flipoff:  Then I will be keeping the GS...

Later.

Ok here is what i did to the bike for more leg room.

(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad44/citygs/IMG_0598.jpg)

It's a modified footpeg lowering kit from gsr as to fit to gs. But you can find for gs too(is the same as the passenger's of vstrom 650). three parts-- adapter--extension bracket--peg. You can buy a rubber touring peg, for more comfort. google mfw or gsg. It's german stuff. BUT stock pegs are the most comfortable thing-rubber kills vibrations. Through time i had vibrations and change them...didn't want to spare more money for touring pegs...i wasn't sure for the result.
You can use rear footpegs and mount them with some spacers and bolts etc under the front footpeg bracket--that's what i have now on bike--they work fine-no vibrations. No pics for now but you can't stand on them with all your weight.... :icon_sad:. and when i'll have time , i'll fix them better, more stable-electrolysis etc.
But safety is top issue--there are people and shops that do these kind of mods
As mentioned, you can do many things with bike ergos...

Quote from: sotomoto on November 26, 2010, 03:18:04 AM

(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad44/citygs/IMG_0598.jpg)

Soto: What's the little bag thing above the heel plate?

Michael

Oh. it's the case of the disc brake lock...it is always there, mounted on the frame...but it doesn't worth... :icon_rolleyes:--Almost nobody wants to steal the bike...one of the reasons i love it... :D

I like it...now, I just need to loose about 50lbs...anybody want them... :icon_mrgreen:

I am still going to upgrade if I can afford it, but if I can't this will make the ride way more comfortable.

Thanks sotomoto...very good suggestions...

Later.

I don't have any good pictures loaded online, but I just did that swap with the cheap gsxr pegs on ebay. $15 and 5 minutes of grinding and I got an extra inch of leg room. I didn't so it for the leg room, but these pegs are so much thinner than stock that it just happened. You could try that if you didn't want to spend real money on lowered pegs.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4045/4178167510_9cd85b2f1b_z.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4126/5076190797_951a96ae7a_z.jpg)

I guess they are lower because of the lack of rubber?  Or are they mounted lower some how? (can't see it though...)

Naah...effit...get new bike... :thumb:

Later.

same position, just lower because they're so much skinnier, not to mention they give you a little more ground clearance probably. Either way some cheat $15 ebay pegs isn't going to fix your desire to get a new bike.

Buy em all Madjak. One for every day of the week.

Quote from: Twisted on November 28, 2010, 01:37:59 AM
Buy em all Madjak. One for every day of the week.

Now that is a suggestion...don't think it would get past the "Boss", but I like it...she can just keep her SUV in the driveway next to my truck so that I can have my toys...yeah, I don't think that one would even get completely out of my mouth before she started laughing at it...

But I do like how you think... :icon_mrgreen: :thumb: :icon_twisted:

Not quite so sure about the upgrade this year...the company hasn't done that well financially this year, so the bonus may not happen  :bs: (I was hoping for enough to pay most of the difference between what I should get for my GS to what my "new to me" bike was going to cost...)  I may still get one, but it will take a little sweet talking of the "boss" to allocate the funds... :icon_mrgreen:

I still enjoy my GS, so it's not the end of the world...just a bit of a bummer...we'll see... ;)

Later.

I need a job with bonuses. I'm tired of paying fun stuff with the normal money I earned.... haha

Just be careful what you ask for...I am elegible for bonus if the company meets it's goals financially, but I don't get paid for overtime...so my roadtrip weeks where I work/drive for 60-70hrs I get no extra, and may not get a bonus  :icon_confused:...the nice thing is you get it all at once if you do get it...instead of a some extra on each paycheck... :thumb:

I'd make more money if I was overtime elegible... :cheers:  so don't be too gealous of guys with a bonus...it's not that great...it was also part of the choice to stay home and have family time, instead of working out of town...if I was working a big project, I would be making double what I am now...so that may happen in the next few years when the kids are all teens and money is king...right now I think daddy time is better...

Later.

 :whisper:---Hei madjak30, have you ever heard about the honda nt650v deauville?
It's not in your list but maybe this is the bike you need... A used 650 is economical and very good quality too. Better ergos than gs for you, i suppose---better wind protection, it's a tourer...side cases and one more---no chain and sprockets... :thumb:

I think it's a very nice bike-with very good support etc. If you like it and buy it, you will not regret it. And maybe, you can keep your gs,too.

(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad44/citygs/HondaNT650Deauville1998.jpg)

The Deauville was never sold in Canada, nevermind North America. But if you could get a Euro bike here, it would have to be the Yamaha TRX850

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamaha_TRX850

I don't know if you've seen this bike yet, but I think you can get them up there in Canada. Don't know much about them but they look pretty cool.

(http://p1.bikepics.com/pics/2006%5C02%5C05%5Cbikepics-515989-800.jpg)

If the Bandit is on the list, why not the XJR 1300 ? (Comes in other than blue) Basically a naked (and cheaper) version of the FJR1300

(http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200610/2007-yamaha-xjr1300-2_460x0w.jpg)

Michael

My wishlist bike is a Wakan 1640.

The actual bike I'll get will likely be a 1979 GS1000...or a GSXR750 engine for my GS750.

Quote from: tt_four on November 30, 2010, 08:02:55 PM
I don't know if you've seen this bike yet, but I think you can get them up there in Canada. Don't know much about them but they look pretty cool.

(http://p1.bikepics.com/pics/2006%5C02%5C05%5Cbikepics-515989-800.jpg)

I'll have to take that one into consideration...see if I can locate one and get some pricing... :icon_mrgreen: :thumb:

Later.  :flipoff:

I ride with lots of guys that ride bandits. great bikes. Same motor as the gsxr. They ride the rails off them. Couple guys run their 1200's on the track in the race group...you can just imagine the talks they get after a session of spanking guys on big sportbikes, lol.
They're very undervalued. you can get a slightly used one for a fraction of a new one. I know of people who've bought NEW old stock several year old ones for nearly nothing. maximum-suzuki.com is a big site for them.

The m90 is a nice cruiser. not much else.

the vstroms are great bikes too. not really very good on the dirt beyond simple dirt roads though. Several bandit guys have gotten them and are very happy with them.

This is a cool bike...

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TPnhP1OtqxI/AAAAAAAAAcM/9EfOuHrPJa0/990SD_Neil_ride_frs_bg%5B1%5D.jpg)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TPnhQX2EEAI/AAAAAAAAAcQ/djPzPNq6Ois/990SD_fls_bg%5B2%5D.jpg)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TPnhQoSQsoI/AAAAAAAAAcU/tLebpqr0Xf0/990SD_rob_fat_bg%5B1%5D.jpg)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TPnhRb5aT6I/AAAAAAAAAcY/TRaU4Fds6WE/990SD_rhs_bg%5B1%5D.jpg)

KTM Super Duke...999cc V-Twin 118Hp 71lbs/ft TQ
Price is a little high for me though...$16,995cdn MSRP

Very similar to the MT-01 except it looks more like a Suzuki Gladius mated with a Kawasaki Z1000....but I like it...

I think I am starting to understand why women like shopping so much...so many toys to look at, but I don't really care if they make my ass look fat... :icon_mrgreen:

Later.

Quote from: madjak30 on December 04, 2010, 01:03:37 AM
This is a cool bike...

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TPnhP1OtqxI/AAAAAAAAAcM/9EfOuHrPJa0/990SD_Neil_ride_frs_bg%5B1%5D.jpg)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TPnhQX2EEAI/AAAAAAAAAcQ/djPzPNq6Ois/990SD_fls_bg%5B2%5D.jpg)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TPnhQoSQsoI/AAAAAAAAAcU/tLebpqr0Xf0/990SD_rob_fat_bg%5B1%5D.jpg)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TPnhRb5aT6I/AAAAAAAAAcY/TRaU4Fds6WE/990SD_rhs_bg%5B1%5D.jpg)

KTM Super Duke...999cc V-Twin 118Hp 71lbs/ft TQ
Price is a little high for me though...$16,995cdn MSRP

Very similar to the MT-01 except it looks more like a Suzuki Gladius mated with a Kawasaki Z1000....but I like it...

I think I am starting to understand why women like shopping so much...so many toys to look at, but I don't really care if they make my ass look fat... :icon_mrgreen:

Later.

i've seen a couple, but only heard and seen one in person. it sounds like trouble - LOOK AT ME OFFICER I"M ABOUT TO COMMIT TWO VIOLATIONS AT ONCE - kinda troulbe, and i like it. i'm not into fast stuff so much now, and dual sport is where i am. hop a curb, hop a creek, hop to work, hop a 100 mile jaunt to the mountains.... just fits.

are you stuck on a liter bike for size ? speed ?

why v twins ?

sorry if you explained already, just clarifying.

Quote from: madjak30 on December 04, 2010, 01:03:37 AM
This is a cool bike...

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TPnhP1OtqxI/AAAAAAAAAcM/9EfOuHrPJa0/990SD_Neil_ride_frs_bg%5B1%5D.jpg)

If you have issues with leg room on the GS, this bike won't solve your problem.

Michael

The Duke does to leg room what hammers do to nails.

No, I'm not considering a Super Duke...I just thought it was a cool bike...over priced, but cool...the reviews I read said it had legroom...anyway, it doesn't really matter...realistically I am heading for a Bandit 1200...sorry tt_four...I can pick one up pretty cheap, and it has the extra leg room that I need...or a Honda 919 if I can find one cheap enough...if I look at bikes under or around $4000cdn, I shouldn't have to worry about the money part...sell my GS for around $2700cdn...difference isn't much...

Quote from: ohgood on December 04, 2010, 06:27:51 AM
are you stuck on a liter bike for size ? speed ?

why v twins ?

sorry if you explained already, just clarifying.

I wouldn't say I'm stuck on liter size, but I want something that has ample torque and Hp...more for the torque to move my fat ass...twins just naturally provide this...I'm also pretty shallow, otherwise I would just buy a V-Strom and be done with it... :icon_mrgreen:...I want something that looks nice ass well...doesn't have to be the latest and greatest (actually don't care what others think of the bike, but I have to like the looks of it)

Later.

What about this bad boy?
Kwaka ZRX1200 - drool
(http://www.bikez.com/pictures/kawasaki/2005/21499_0_1_2_zrx%201200%20r_Image%20credits%20-%20Kawasaki.jpg)

liter twin in the $4k area...go get a TL.

Interesting about the Bandit 1200 v the 1250... I've ridden the 1250 Sport. Didn't lean as readily as the GS or 919, but a few minutes you got used to it and it was fine. However, the small front screen sent all the wind to my helmet - I'm 6"2 - and the seat felt too low down in the front and gave me the impression I was sliding into the tank. BUT, if you look at photos of the 1200 you'll see the older ones have a single piece seat like the GS, and the newer two-piece jobs are more flat right across instead of sloping down near the tank than the seats on the 1250.

2005 - 1200
(http://liveimages.bikesales.com.au/bikesales/bike/dealer/bd4677955608062033228.jpg)

2007 - 1200
(http://liveimages.bikesales.com.au/bikesales/bike/dealer/bd5254493730205825983.jpg)

2009 -1250
(http://farm4.dealernet.com.au/stock/20101117/B92BB4AE4DAC4074A99DD74F09C130E1.jpg)

In my neck of the woods, the 1200s are roughly the same as the 919s in price. Though you can find more newer 919s with fewer clicks on them and thus slightly higher priced. But for all intents and purposes, within a grand of each other - sevens to eights for the same age/distance (2005 - 2007 with 10K to 20k on the clock). Go older on the 1200 Bandit and you get into the 60k on the odo and the price comes down. But still relatively close to a 60k 919 in price.

Michael

I'll still approve either way, I like bandits for an all around bike. They don't have the same appeal as the mt01, but I'd still be fine to ride one.

Have you looked into any of the first generation Z1000s? I see some in pretty nice condition selling for around $3000-35000usd. I'm not sure what that translates into in canadian. I love TLs, too.

Quote from: makenzie71 on December 04, 2010, 11:57:43 PM
liter twin in the $4k area...go get a TL.

Too much weight on the wrists...and insuring one might be a little more costly (man am I cheap... :confused:)...I haven't sat on a TL, but would it have more leg room than the GS?  Not that I have been looking, but I haven't noticed any on Kijiji...anyway, I prefer the looks of the standard bikes.  I'm still kicking tires...

Later.

http://alberta.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-motorcycles-sport-bikes-2004-Honda-CB919-Hornet-W0QQAdIdZ239000163

$3400 in Airdrie

The 919 will be considerably sportier than the Bandit.

Quote from: Clancy on December 04, 2010, 11:00:41 PM
What about this bad boy?
Kwaka ZRX1200 - drool
(http://www.bikez.com/pictures/kawasaki/2005/21499_0_1_2_zrx%201200%20r_Image%20credits%20-%20Kawasaki.jpg)

eh clancy, you got a passion thing goin on for cowies bike?  ;)

Quote from: madjak30 on December 04, 2010, 01:03:37 AM
This is a cool bike...

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TPnhP1OtqxI/AAAAAAAAAcM/9EfOuHrPJa0/990SD_Neil_ride_frs_bg%5B1%5D.jpg)

KTM Super Duke...999cc V-Twin 118Hp 71lbs/ft TQ
Price is a little high for me though...$16,995cdn MSRP

I watched a couple of them at Race City in the Superbike Nationals a couple years back ~ they were dog slow

I don't doubt that it wasn't fast...I don't think it is meant to beat the purpose built bikes, but to be a bike that is fun to ride and quick enough to get your pulse racing...similar to the MT-01...the only real problem with this bike is the lack of center stand...that's a big reason I like the Bandit...with chain drive a center stand would be a big plus...with the M90 cruiser and shaft drive only a side stand is livable.

I would like to wait for the demo days, but I don't know if I can wait that long...plus the pricing will be better in the winter.  Maybe early spring guys will be in a hurry to get rid of their existing bike to get that new shiny toy they have been dreaming of since the bike show in Jan....???

A guy can be hopeful...I still have to decide what type of bike I want...standard or cruiser...

Later.

Quote from: Janx101 on December 07, 2010, 01:43:57 PM

Quote from: Clancy on December 04, 2010, 11:00:41 PM
What about this bad boy?
Kwaka ZRX1200 - drool
(http://www.bikez.com/pictures/kawasaki/2005/21499_0_1_2_zrx%201200%20r_Image%20credits%20-%20Kawasaki.jpg)

eh clancy, you got a passion thing goin on for cowies bike?  ;)

just cant help it. Dont even know what i like about them but every time i see one i drool.

Quote from: madjak30 on December 08, 2010, 07:21:57 PM
I don't doubt that it wasn't fast...I don't think it is meant to beat the purpose built bikes, but to be a bike that is fun to ride and quick enough to get your pulse racing...similar to the MT-01...

Same with the XBs and supermotos. They'd get killed on the highway, and not do so hot on a quarter mile but a normal sportbike will have a hard time keeping up with one on twisty back roads and around town where they're meant for. Fast is definitely a relative term. I can make it from one side of downtown to the other on my bicycle faster than you can on any kind of motorcycle, so it really just depends what you're looking to do with it.

Quote from: tt_four on December 08, 2010, 08:32:13 PM

Quote from: madjak30 on December 08, 2010, 07:21:57 PM
I don't doubt that it wasn't fast...I don't think it is meant to beat the purpose built bikes, but to be a bike that is fun to ride and quick enough to get your pulse racing...similar to the MT-01...

Same with the XBs and supermotos. They'd get killed on the highway, and not do so hot on a quarter mile but a normal sportbike will have a hard time keeping up with one on twisty back roads and around town where they're meant for. Fast is definitely a relative term. I can make it from one side of downtown to the other on my bicycle faster than you can on any kind of motorcycle, so it really just depends what you're looking to do with it.

Exactly...it kinda depends on perspective...if you are going to these bikes from a GS500, you will think they are wicked machines...if you are coming from a 1000cc super bike, they will be slow...I'm not looking for a bike that can do 200mph...I want a bike that doesn't slow down on hills or in the wind and has ample passing power...it also has to have extra leg room over the GS500, which I find a little tight...the fastest bike I am looking at is the Bandit then the MT-01, then the cruisers...but my biggest concern is comfort and distance between fills...I haven't had a chance to test the M90, but the Bandit and the MT-01 are both comfortable, but the Bandit has much better range...the MT-01 has more personality/attitude...the M90 has a bit of the attitude and better range...

I'm still doing research, so none are ruled out....

Later.

I was on the MT-01 forum yesterday, and they were talking about the small gas tank...one guy posted a link to a German site that makes 20L tanks for the MT-01...that would give it a more average range of 300kms (190 miles) before the low fuel warning, which is what I get with the GS...or atleast closer to it...the low fuel on the MT-01 comes on with 3L left in the tank, and I think the GS goes on reserve with 5-6L...so not quite the same, but I generally refuel when I switch to reserve...now I just have to figure out some kind of center stand for chain maintenance and my mind is made up...

Then it will be road trip time to go hunting for guys with a XB9S and show them a real bike... :icon_twisted: :flipoff:

Later.

I've looked into some aftermarket gas tanks in my long term supermoto research. They've all got about a 2.5 gallon tank. I can be superficial about the way a bike looks, so I'd probably keep the normal tank on and just use the extra tank if I knew I was going to be out for a while with a chance of not seeing a gas station for a while, but additional fuel is a good option to have. I think if I had a SM I'd probably just get one of those liter sized nalgene bottles or a good metal bottle that I trusted enough to keep in a backpack or strap to my rear fender so if I even ran dry I'd at least have a backup.

Now as far as your plan to harrass the good honest men riding XB9s, the MT01 makes less hp, has a lower top speed, has a wheelbase that's 8 inches longer, and weighs 155lbs more, so, good luck catching one.  :D 

You miss the point...I think that would be half the fun...and I may know of one that wouldn't mind taking an MT-01 for a bit of a burn...you also forgot that the Buell rider may weigh 100lbs less than the Yamaha rider... :thumb: I think he lives somewhere near Pittsburgh??  Google maps says 3463kms (2164 miles)...pppppfffffffttttt...no biggie... :icon_mrgreen: 

Okay, maybe that is a little far to harass a Buell owner...I can always pester one of the guys from ADVrider that ride a Uly...

By the way, the 20L tank doesn't seem to look any different...no big hump or extra bulges, it may just be slightly taller and go into the frame a little more...?? not sure...

Later.

Quote from: madjak30 on December 17, 2010, 04:44:37 PM
and I may know of one that wouldn't mind taking an MT-01 for a bit of a burn...you also forgot that the Buell rider may weigh 100lbs less than the Yamaha rider...

Haha, you just upped the spread to a total of 255lbs difference between the bike/rider combo. Chances of me seeing this real bike are getting slimmer and slimmer.

Hey...might as well be honest...and don't forget the experience difference...I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be much competition for you...but it sounded good at the time  :icon_mrgreen:  and you never know...my company is looking for some guys to move to the States to expand the business...Minot, ND...Hainesville, IL...no where near as bad for pestering Buell riders...not sure how long the riding season is there, but it has to be longer than here...too damn cold in the winter...

Later.

I took one of these for a spin today...

Kawasaki Z750, 2010 model
(http://www.dkmotorcycles.co.uk/images/model_colour_images/large/2010kawasakiz750black.jpg)

First, the negatives...

- Seat was hard. Not hard like a board. And I thought, I wonder if it would soften with use and getting used to it. I felt it mostly in the rear of my butt. And when I got off I pushed the seat's padding and noticed the Least amount of padding was where I felt it and there was something Hard under it, like an Edge to the seat shape or something. I can't imagine what an hour would feel like - but like I said, the foam may soften with use.

- Cornering Reluctance. Okay, this is really subjective and in comparison only. So only compared to another bike - in this case the Honda 919 I just hopped off. This isn't to say the bike doesn't corner. It does, and sweetly, just that it needed a little more work than the Honda. Maybe partly due to the reduced fork rake and maybe due to the 190 tire on the Z750 compared to the 180 on the 919.

- Clunky Gear Changes. Again, this is in comparison. Cause really, it changes nice, but not as nice as the 919 did.

- Soft front brakes. This is NOT a fault of the bike but of the brakes being set up wrong.

Positives...

- Smooth acceleration. With the 919, a twist of the throttle Lurches you forward. With the Z750 a twist send you forward in a smoother fashion with less sudden lurch. Don't get me wrong, this bike Can accelerate like nobody's business. It just does it smoother. And the engine does Not sound like it is straining even as the revs climb. Rather, the engine sounds welcoming of it. So overall, if you're mid bend and come on the throttle you won't suddenly lurch.

- No deadspot in the EFI. When you come off the throttle and then Slowly come back on, the pick up is instant. It's doesn't leave you hanging and then Suddenly BAM, a punch of fuel.

- Ease of acceleration. While not as torquey as the 919, it ain't not slouch in the acceleration department.

The riding position is Upright and you are Closer to the front of the bike than on the GS. So as you go into corners you feel kind of extra upright even if you're not really. So any sense of leaning closer to the tank feels... it doesn't feel odd but the mental impression is different, almost as if leaning forward would put you way over the tank - this is me, being 6"2 so a shorter person with a shorter body would feel different about it. And this is a first impression. Obviously this would be gotten used to.

The mirrors did not vibrate. Nothing on the bike vibrated. As I said to the salesman when I got off and he asked what I thought... man, I cannot believe how smooth that bike is.

Now, this bike has a pillion seat. But you really wouldn't take a pillion. The GS500 is 2080mm in length, the Z750 is 2096mm... only 16mm longer. Wheelbase is 1405mm for the GS and 1440mm for the Z750. So dimensionally it's similar to the GS..

The only negative thing I've heard about the bike is, the forks have one spring and one dampener. But I cannot recall if this is for a certain model or how they all are.

So for those who may be thinking of getting an SV650 or some other 600CC+ class bike, take the Z750 for a spin, you just might like it. I really had no interest but my mechanic said to take one for a spin and I am glad I did.

Michael

Quote from: madjak30 on December 18, 2010, 12:49:54 AM
...not sure how long the riding season is there, but it has to be longer than here...too damn cold in the winter...

Later.

Riding season here isn't bad. I had some nice rides into late November. Early december is manageable if you're more motivated than I am. January and February are a waste, but it picks up pretty fast in march and you usually see a 70 degree day or two before the end of the month.

Mister, great write up on that bike. I've always loved the Z1000 and Z750s. 750 is my idea engine size, but Suzuki is the only one who knows how to do it right. I just find it completely unacceptable that the 750cc version is heavier than the 1000cc version(or at least it was, haven't checked out the details lately. I understand why, they took a Z1000, sleeved down the motor, swapped out some nicer parts for cheaper(heavier) ones, and stuck it back out on the sales floor, which is fine, but unless insurance is a huge huge issue for you, I would go for the 1000 every time. Now if they could drop 75-100lbs off the bike they'd be getting somewhere. I've seen some different numbers for the weight, but they're all in the range of 455-498lbs. Considering the 1000 is 450lbs I don't see any reason the 750 should be over 430, otherwise you're just not making up for the power difference. Suzuki's new GSR750 is supposed to be 420lbs, which definitely makes the z750 look bad.

Quote from: tt_four on December 18, 2010, 09:13:21 AM

Mister, great write up on that bike. I've always loved the Z1000 and Z750s. 750 is my idea engine size, but Suzuki is the only one who knows how to do it right. I just find it completely unacceptable that the 750cc version is heavier than the 1000cc version(or at least it was, haven't checked out the details lately. I understand why, they took a Z1000, sleeved down the motor, swapped out some nicer parts for cheaper(heavier) ones, and stuck it back out on the sales floor, which is fine, but unless insurance is a huge huge issue for you, I would go for the 1000 every time. Now if they could drop 75-100lbs off the bike they'd be getting somewhere. I've seen some different numbers for the weight, but they're all in the range of 455-498lbs. Considering the 1000 is 450lbs I don't see any reason the 750 should be over 430, otherwise you're just not making up for the power difference. Suzuki's new GSR750 is supposed to be 420lbs, which definitely makes the z750 look bad.

Yep, according to bikez...

919 = 194.1 kg (428.0 pounds) dry weight - 07
Z1000 = 205.0 kg (452.0 pounds) dry weight - 07 (2010 Z1000 has a small gas tank so weight would be down again)
Z750 = 207.0 kg (456.4 pounds) dry weight - 07
Z750 = 226.0 kg (498.2 pounds) dry weight - 10
GS500F = 199.0 kg (438.7 pounds) (wet)
GSX650 220.0 kg (485.0 pounds) dry - 241.0 kg (531.3 pounds) wet

I can understand why people buy the 750, at least down here. The 750, new, is only $11k with demo bikes dropping to under $10k. While a new Z1000 is $15k (the 750s are cheaper). Plus, they seem to have a fan base. People think of them more as a Commuter - and - Weekender, while thinking the 1000 is more just a weekender.

Interestingly, the Z750 claimed HP is about the same as that of the 919 - a tad over 100. And both have a claimed top speed of 230kph (about 144mph). So obviously, for whatever reason, the Kwaka's smaller engine is putting out more horses.

Like the FZ8 being as heavy as the FZ1 and using a resleeved FZ1 motor while claiming it's a New motor, the Z750 weight compared to the Z1000 seems wrong. But for most people I don't think the weight would be noticed, or even cared about as the numbers above would show. Which must be the case considering the bike is still being sold and so far I am yet to hear a bad word about the 750 (other than the single spring thing which the average riding wouldn't know about anyway). And I've heard "The Z750, for example, sold more in France last year than all the UK Fireblades and GSX-R1000s combined."

And for Suzuki to jump in with their GSR750 clone (detuned Gixxer 750), they must feel the market is there...
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_J3_liDBfbvs/TK896kNEtOI/AAAAAAAAy2k/gNudpEsrLiQ/s400/2011+Suzuki+GSR750+Sportbike.jpg) (http://www.bikez.com/pictures/kawasaki/2007/26082_0_1_2_z750%20abs_Image%20credits%20-%20Kawasaki.jpg)

Also interestingly re the weight, in the Aust Bike Sales list, the sales of the GS500F were 325 for 2010 and 324 for 2009 for the first three quarters. While the much heavier than anything else in its class GSX650 had sales of 237 and 297 accordingly, second only in the Sport Touring category to the GS500F.

But I know what you mean... that depsite the difference for the average Joe being nothing to write home about, just knowing what they did to get to the 750 is annoying.

Michael

Seriously....what ever happened to the true naked bikes? Why is everyone copying each other with these transformer style clones of each other? I think that it is only the Yamaha XJR1300 keeping it real now........

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff62/icecreamhands/bd5038229087924362495.jpg?t=1292716100)

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff62/icecreamhands/bd5020936795510153068.jpg?t=1292716196)

I think the idea is that people are tired of naked bikes being considered budget/beginner bikes. Just because they don't want a fairing doesn't mean they don't still want something aggressive and fast. The best way to do that is just to make naked bikes more like supersports without the fairings. They're still not even, but I think that's why they look the way they do. That Yamaha is a good looking bike for what it is, but it doesn't loko fast, and it doesn't look light at all. That's the kinda bike I'm gonna have 20-30 years from now as I hope to god that I never decide I'm ready for a cruiser. It's definitely nut enough to satisfy the naked bike market though, even with as small as it is.

Even looks aside, you're still looking at a steel backbone frame with an air/oil cooled motor, conventional forks, dual rear shocks and analog gauges. I didn't even know that anyone still sold bikes like that aside from the GS, and I'll be amazed if they're still selling that bike for more than another year or two. It looks like it might even be caburated, but it's hard to tell from the picture.

The XJR has EFI. And it Is a heavy bugger at 540# (245kg wet) - alloy piston, ohlins shocks, double cradle steel frame. BUT, it's air cooled - sheesh.

But even Honda's new 1100F with its retro Harley-esq look is air cooled. WTF.

It seems, what they call Naked these days is really semi naked. Just a faired bike with the side fairings removed as they still keep that cutting front nose shape instead of the retro round headlight look - like the Z750 and Z1000, FZ8 & FZ1. GSR750.

Looking at a Yamaha 2010 Model booklet the other day, no FZ6s in there. XJ6 for the learners and that was it. But I am led to believe you can still buy FZ6s due to their overproduction. But why would you when for the same $ you can get other more powerful bikes.

The prob with getting a retro looking bike with water cooling and the same engine as the more sporty - not supersport, just sport version - would require a big leap of faith from the manufacturers. And non are really willing to make that leap of faith cause a production run that doesn't sell would mean someone gets the arse. From the more affordable jap bike makers that is. And those companies figure, if you want fast, you want faired cause otherwise the wind will be a killer.  :dunno_black:

If you want retro-ish naked, watercooled, fast bike, you''re looking at expensive European brands like the MV Augusta Brutale 910 with 101kw or 989 with 104kw
(http://liveimages.redbook.com.au/bikesales/bike/spec/M.V.0020.jpg) (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Mvhjidbvdzc/SFpSWn4uRVI/AAAAAAAAF-I/Kp91eMbtlbw/s400/brutale%2B989r%2B1.jpg)

Or Bimota's Delirio
(http://www.webbikeworld.com/bimota/delirio/bimota-delirio.jpg)

But these bike will cost you big time - if you can even get them in your country.

Kawa, Yam and Suz all make their naked sports with the Modern look (Z750 and Z100, GSR750, FZ8 and FZ1). Honda it seems has abandoned that market all together.

So really, fast naked new is the Z750, Z1000, GSR750, FZ8 and FZ1 - and Honda 919 2nd hand for a retro watercooled quick bike. Not a big selection at all.

Michael

Honda still has the cb1000r which looks pretty decent.

(http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/6099/CB1000R.jpg)

I love those MVs. Pretty much my dream bike, aside from the fact that it's too sweet for me to be willing to ride it the way it should be ridden, plus I can't get over the I4 in the bike. I'm ok with I4s, but that bike should have a Vtwin, it just should. For the brief period that HD owned MV and Buell at the same time, they should've made another Brutale with the 1125 motor.

In reference to the cb1000r and the z750 though, I am getting pretty tired of seeing companies using those frames on all their naked bikes. I'm very pleased that kawasaki put a real frame on the new z1000. I know they do it because they want the motor to stick out as that's half the appeal of a naked bike, but still. I think the main reason kawasaki started from the beginning on the z1000 instead of just stripping down the zx10r is because the zx10s motor is almost completely covered by that massive frame, so they wanted you to still be able to see some of it. It's not a huge deal for me because I always just buy used bikes, so it's actually cheaper for me to buy a normal faired sportbike with some damage to it because it drops the price way down, and I can just pull them off and toss them in the trash anyway. Then I'm left with my ideal naked bike that's still fast, light, has great suspension/components, but doesn't have any more plastic than it needs.

Now on the plus side, the way manufactures handle naked bikes still makes it fun to strip bikes down and see what you can come up with. As great as it is that companies like Triumph and Buell have made naked bikes that are the same bike just without the plastic, it takes any suspense out of making a naked bike out of it. I've seen plenty of streetfighter builds where guys started with daytona 675s, and literally all you end up with is a street triple with a different headlight regardless of how much work they put into it.

Was watching a video today and the narrator said... of the 100,000 bikes sold in Europe so far this year (whatever the year was) Kawasaki has sold 6,000 Z750s.

If I'm not mistaken the Z750 is Not available in the USA either. So if Suzuki brings their GSR750 into the US, they could be selling to a relatively untapped market. And they'd be trying to muscle in on the action in Europe.

It looks like the only market the GS500 is sold in now is Canada, USA, Aust & NZ, as the bike cannot meet EU emissions standards. So while the Aust/US emissions standards might allow the bike in at the moment, at some point the bike won't be able to be sold here/there either. So the writing is certainly on the wall for it over the next few years.

And speaking of chopped up naked versions of a faired bike.... presenting the BMW S1000rr like you've never seen it before...

(http://www.superbike.co.uk/imageBank/2/2009_BMW_S1000RR_studio.jpg) (http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6973/nakedbmw.jpg)

(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh258/0dzy/Screenshot2010-10-24at74147PM.png)

(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8191/wunderlichbmws1000rrpir.jpg)

(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8191/wunderlichbmws1000rrpir.jpg)

Michael

I like the gray on a bit. That gold color has just never sat well with me, and I'm not crazy about the aprilia tuono headlights that are huge and stick out way too far. Sure it would be a fun bike to ride though!

One good thing about the gsr750 is the lack of competition, but unfortunately it's also got a lack of a market to deal with. The SV650 did well as a beginner 600 or just a cheap sportbike, and some bigger ones do ok from guys who have outgrown the supersport thing but still want a bigger bike. The 750 would have to fit into that spot of people who still want a decently fast and sporty bike, but one that doesn't really work well with the beginner crowd. I picture it as a bike for people who have ridden some 600+ bikes before, still want something fast, without fairings, but not 1000cc freight train tire eating fast. I think that market pretty much consists me just me. The only flaw in that plan is that I don't really buy new bikes anymore, so it really doesn't matter what Japan puts out there. I'm still just gonna find a random bike and make it into what I want.

What about the FZ8? Isn't that supposed to be in the US? That would be some competition for the gsr750, although the Suzuki would clearly be the better bike, in my opinion.

Quote from: tt_four on December 22, 2010, 11:33:43 AM
The 750 would have to fit into that spot of people who still want a decently fast and sporty bike, but one that doesn't really work well with the beginner crowd. I picture it as a bike for people who have ridden some 600+ bikes before, still want something fast, without fairings, but not 1000cc freight train tire eating fast. I think that market pretty much consists me just me.

Me too...Me too!   :thumb:

Quote from: redhawkdancing on December 22, 2010, 11:54:15 AM

Quote from: tt_four on December 22, 2010, 11:33:43 AM
The 750 would have to fit into that spot of people who still want a decently fast and sporty bike, but one that doesn't really work well with the beginner crowd. I picture it as a bike for people who have ridden some 600+ bikes before, still want something fast, without fairings, but not 1000cc freight train tire eating fast. I think that market pretty much consists me just me.

Me too...Me too!   :thumb:

Ditto

And... I'm pretty sure we all like the ZRX1200, right?

Well... what if it had a Busa inner?

I present....

The KAWABUSA - a ZRX look powered by Busa stuff inside...

(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/5528/kawabusa.jpg)

Michael

Quote from: mister on December 22, 2010, 09:38:12 PM

And... I'm pretty sure we all like the ZRX1200, right?

Well... what if it had a Busa inner?

I present....

The KAWABUSA - a ZRX look powered by Busa stuff inside...

(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/5528/kawabusa.jpg)

Michael

Somewhat Drool worthy

Quote from: mister on December 22, 2010, 09:38:12 PM

And... I'm pretty sure we all like the ZRX1200, right?

That's another one of the bikes that I love, but is just too much bike for someone my size. I'd love one in a 750-900cc size, assuming the actual bike is smaller and not just a sleeved down version of the big bike.

Quote from: mister on December 22, 2010, 09:38:12 PM
... I'm pretty sure we all like the ZRX1200, right?

Actually, all I see when I look at that bike is an old bike...just not my cup of tea...I do like the naked bikes and the newer transformer looking bikes (Z1000, B-King, etc)...the ZRX just doesn't do it for me...I think it is the square headlight...??

Later.

m90 bc i love the look

Didn't the zrx come with a round headlight too? There's a few pictures on google with a round light, but it's too hard to tell if it ever came like that or if they're just headlight swaps...

(http://images41.fotki.com/v1346/photos/7/743956/6787601/zrxoa7-vi.jpg)

For some reason I can't stop looking at these lately. I know I talk about not wanting a liter bike because I think they would be too fast to even enjoy 95% of the time, but this thing being over the top ridiculously stupid fast kinda makes me want to get over that, haha. I really want to know what it's like to ride a bike that goes 115mph in 1st gear and wheelie off nothing more than full throttle up to 145mph. I know there are faster bikes now, but this bike was still before all of the ABS, traction control, and different fuel map/HP settings came out, so it seems a bit more raw. Kawasaki actually started making their bikes slower after this because too many people were killing themselves haha.

(http://www.ema-usa.com/images/bow/bow_jason_zx10_1.jpg)

Quote from: tt_four on December 24, 2010, 07:38:41 PM
Didn't the zrx come with a round headlight too? There's a few pictures on google with a round light, but it's too hard to tell if it ever came like that or if they're just headlight swaps...

(http://images41.fotki.com/v1346/photos/7/743956/6787601/zrxoa7-vi.jpg)

that reminds me of this
(http://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/sites/default/files/imagecache/lightbox/2011_XJR1300_SMX_AU_3.jpg)

Ok. Today's test ride was of a Green Street Triple (675cc - Striple) and a Black Speed Triple (1055cc - S3) as pictured...

(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_AYmU9ozxu_o/TRq9R2Ta7iI/AAAAAAAAAbY/GxqFVxM6vZQ/StreetTripleandS3.jpg)

I started on the Striple, rode a route lap, stopped, then got on the S3. And here's my Impressions...

Street Triple (675cc)
Acceleration is sweet and there is plenty on tap. Twist the throttle, enjoy the three cylinder sound and hang on. This baby can go. Not as flickable as the GS - of course, I am used to the GS. The throttle had a dead spot - come off the throttle all together, then come on slow and there is nothing, nothing, nothing and then Bam a small surge. This is NOT good IMO. Imagine this leaned over mid turn.

The other noticeable thing was the heat coming up through the seat from the exhaust. I had only heard about this as a passing comment on another board the night before the ride and had forgotten about it. Forgotten until my butt started getting warm. Not something you'd enjoy in summer commuting in traffic. Not something I imagined would be enjoyable on a 60 - 90 minute ride somewhere.

Comfort wise I prefer the GS. The Striple was alright. But so are a lot of other bikes.

Speed Triple (1055cc)
This has after-market exhausts on it and two sets of oggy knobs which my knees where hitting. The cans sounded fine, throaty. The main thing I noticed on this was the seating angle. My feet were somewhat beneath me as you might expect from a supersport, for example, but the riding position is more upright - hard to explain. The result is, you either relax and your weight goes on the handlebars - or - you hold yourself up which makes it uncomfortable for the boys and strains your hip flexors (a stress position). After 15 minutes this was really starting to be annoying - the salesman said "you'll get used to it" (humph, anything to make a sale).  Oh, yeah, it could also take off with a throttle twist. No Heat issues though.

Of the two I preferred the Striple. But the price? Screw that!

The S3 was an 06 asking $10,800 - I can buy a Brand New Bandit 1250 for less ($10,490). The Striple was a demo model 09 and asking $12,400. Phhhttt to that price too. (These are Australian Dollar Prices)

They were ok to ride, don't get me wrong. But in all honesty, I would rather ride a Kawasaki  Z750 or Honda CB900 (919), get nearly the same throttle response, have no deadspot or hot butt issues, and only cost almost half as much moolah. Which = Better Value, IMO. Frankly, I don't know what all the fuss is about these triples. But am glad I had the opportunity to ride them, to satisfy the curiosity.

As an aside (madjak30), stopped by a Yammy dealer and sat on an MT01. Conclusion.... no thanks.

Michael

Not sure about the difference in US/AUS pricing, but when I picked up my Triumph speed four it was only $6500, not even $1000 more than a new sv650(naked) which was $5700 at that point. It was a great deal since it was the only serious naked bike in 2003. Made good power and had a fully adjustable suspension. It was definitely as close as you could get to a 600cc supersport without the plastic on it and cost much less. The price has definitely gone up, but so have the components. There are more options now, but japanese naked bikes are still stuck in that slow/budget/commuter mold and the street striple is still just a serious naked bike so it's pretty much in it's own little class so the price is hard to compare. The Z750 is definitely a fun looking bike, but there's going to be a good increase in weight. I'm too lazy to look up the numbers now, but the 750 weights more than the z1000, and that's not a light bike to start with. Not to mention all the parts on the 750 are cheaper than the 1000, so I'm not sure how they all compare to the parts on the 675.

Great write-up though. I'd probably be crazy about the 675 if I hadn't already owned the speed four. I always thought my bike should've come with upright handlebars and a 3 cylinder motor, was never sure why it didn't. I loved USD forks but they were still pretty new on 600s at that point so I didn't really think too much of it.

Difference between US/Au pricing... okay... the Au dollar is worth $1.01US.

Brand new GS500 in Aust is $7500 (rounding). How much is a brand new GS500 in the US? $4,000? Would you even look if it was priced at that or, using Currency Exchange the equal of $7,631.96US. I hardly think so.

Using the Street Buyers Guide at http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/1/2010/Buyers-Guide-Group/2010-Street-Bike-Buyers-Guide.aspx I see a New, 2010 model Striple is $8,899US. That same bike in Aust is, at a bargain on special price of, $13,490 (normally more like $14,500). Same bike. Comes from the same factory. Australian's are paying more for bikes for no reason - it's like DVDs, we are in Zone 4 so Players are designed for the zone so won't play a Zone 1 DVD unless you can deactivate the zoning on it. And this is done so people in Zone 4 cannot buy the cheaper Zone 1 products.

As for the weight issue. I think it's a non starter unless you're racing on the track. Using bikez.com and kawasaki.com.au I get the following weights...

GS500: 199.0 kg (438.7 pounds) - wet
Striple: 189.0 kg (416.7 pounds) - wet
Z750: 226.0 kg (497.2 pounds) - wet (has almost one gallon larger tank)
Z1000: 221.0kg (486.2 pounds) - wet

Now, the GS is Heavier than the triumph but *I* found the GS more flickable. Which simply means, the weight's positioned in the bike at a point that suits Me.

The Z750 is only a tad heavier than the thou, but also has a larger gas tank. But what about performance? Power? Street use?

The 750 has 78kw (104.5hp) vs the 1000 93kw (124.6hp). But in the quarter mile the thou only beats the 750 by 0.1 of a second, while the 750 beats the thou in the roll on, apparently. So the 5kg (10 pound) difference is inconsequential Where It Matters to the Average User. Sure you might Think, but I'm getting a less powerful bike, in which case, go buy the thou and drop a few more bucks doing so. Cause in Aust the price of a New Z750 is $11,000 - $11,500 and a New Z1000 is $14,800 - $15,000 (almost $4,000 more). Remember, our dollars are virtually dollar for dollar.

I know the Z750 is heavier, when compared to, lighter bikes. But it is also lighter when compared to heavier bikes. Horses for courses. And I gotta say, when you ride it you don't ride thinking, "wow, I can feel the extra 10 pounds" or whatever. You don't notice the weight one iota. You don't think, "Hmmm.... my GS is 40 pounds lighter". Once going, the weight difference vanishes. and all you notice is how smooth it is.

Don't get too caught up in the weight, is what I'm getting at. The few pounds difference on these bikes doesn't matter for the overwhelming vast majority of the use you'll put it to. It'll matter on the track, but if you're doing track you ain't racing a stock bike either, right? So the weight issue is really a non starter.

Of the bikes I've reviewed in this thread... I prefer the Bandit 1250 over the S3 (liter class). And prefer the Z750 in the midrange class. The CB900 (919) is kinda in a class of its own - not being a liter and larger than mid range. And I'd prefer it over the S3 as well and over the Bandit for handling and comfort. Dropping the 919 into the mid class I'd say it is Close to the Z750. Maybe better handling and more comfortable - I'll be riding both again to pay closer attention to those aspects as power wise they're pretty close to the point of not mattering as both will get the job done.

[Edit: all my views on comfort/handling are based on My boimechanics, My body ergonomics on the bike, My bodily dimensions - height, weight, leg length, body length, arm length, etc. Your results may vary.]

Michael

The only reason I get hung up on weight is because I'm only 5'8 and 145lbs. 50lbs would have more affect on my ability to throw a bike around than someone who's closer to 200lbs. It's unfortunate because there's a lot of heavier bikes I've had love affairs with, the zx7r, z1000, TLS/R, plus a few more, but the smaller bikes just fit me better. I spend all of my free time trying to convince madjack to buy that 500+lb mt01, even though I'd clearly never feel comfortable on one.

I'm still actually debating trying to find a TLS later next year. My of my all time favorite bikes is the 91-95 gsxr750, and I am more than willing to put of with the weight for how much I love the bike, but I figure if I can like that bike, why can't I just pick up something else that weighs the same if not less that I've always considered to be too big like the TL. Even a cbr900rr I've always thought looked a little too bulky for me, but that bike is around 390-395 dry, so it's way less than the gsxr or TL. I think I am just spoiling myself with the size of the XB. It's ridiculously tiny, even at 1000ccs it's physically smaller than most 600s. Before I got that bike I was also leaning super heavily towards one of the earlier z1000s.

I agree though, the weight isn't as big of a deal as I tend to make it. As long as you try something out before you buy it, and thing it feels good, then go for it.

Quote from: misterThe other noticeable thing was the heat coming up through the seat from the exhaust.

How was it comfort wise apart from the that?
\Aftermarket can like:


Should deal with the heat issue, and  suspect a power commander would help with the throttle response though that should have been a non issue to begin with IMO.

That's a fair chunk of change though to be dropping on basically a naked Daytona.

I work with a guy who has bought one of the New Triumph Thunderbirds. He's forever trying to get other people to jump into the crab bucket with him. He reckons it's the most comfortable bike he has ever owned or ridden. And it may well be, but after he completely replaced the front forks, re did the handlebars so the position is different and put in a completely new seat, you'd think so. But at that point it also stopped being the bike he bought.

Sure, you Could put an aftermarket can to remove the Heat issue on the Striple. But why? Why spend another grand making the bike more rider-friendly when for half the bike's asking price you can have as nearly-as-good bike like the Z750 (I say nearly as good cause it is and really only lacks in certain areas Most riders will not ride in.)

Did a ride today. One of the guys had a 2004 Z750 and Offered for me to ride it for half an hour through a good set of twisties and the like. At the end I had a sore butt, not stinging, but noticeable, though not numb. I have no issues on the GS's seat. But oddly, he said his butt was sore after being on the GS. He also felt like he was Stretching for the handlebars. I felt I had to slightly bend the top half of my torso so I could grab the bars with more comfort - a shorter bodied person would have no such issues.

While it handled the twisties nicely, the firmness of the ride was really offputting. It was as if there we no suspension at all and every small bump was transfered right in to the rider. Apart from that, this six year old bike was smooth to ride. Smooth throttle, smooth gear changes. Just a nice bike.

Pave, apart from the heat issue, the Striple was comfy enough. Not lounge chair comfy, not as comfy as I feel when on the GS, but certainly fair enough. But like you said, the price of these Naked Daytona's is too high IMO. (The riding position is more upright than on the Daytonas, though.)

My mechanic was on today's ride. He asked me what I thought of the Zeddy and if I'd ridden a S3 or Striple and what I thought of them. I told him I wasn't impressed and he said he was surprised. But when I told him I am like a bear on a toy bike on them and showed him a photo of my 6"2 frame on the S3, he burst out laughing and Then understood my difficulty in finding a bike that Fits me. I Need a bike that is Physically larger - Honda 919, Bandit 1200 or 1250, XJR 1300, etc.

The Striple is a good bike. I just don't think it's as good as the price asked of it, is all.

TT: One of the women on todays outing rides a B-King. She's a puny weak woman but handles the bike fine. Another I ride with has to tippytoe her CB1000F. But if you think you fit the Xb, I think you'd also fit the Striple well. Maybe, even, heaven forbid, a Gladius ?  ;)

Michael

Quote from: mister on December 30, 2010, 02:13:18 AM
At the end I had a sore butt, not stinging, but noticeable, though not numb. I have no issues on the GS's seat. But oddly, he said his butt was sore after being on the GS. He also felt like he was Stretching for the handlebars.

The first thing I noticed on the GS after riding my xb for a while was how far away the bars were. I feel like I'm reaching 3 feet away. At the same time the first time I sat on the XB and tried to grab the handlebars, I overshot them by about a foot, haha. Even though some seats will always be more comfortable than others, your butt will definitely adjust a bit. I've ridden enough of a variety of bicycle seats to know you may be sore the first day, but you get used to it pretty quick after the change.

I know I could physically handle a pretty big bike, but I think I get the most fun out of smaller bikes. I live in the city and commute by bicycle since my office is only 15 blocks away and there's no parking lot. I'm used to throwing it around through traffic and over curbs and everything else, plus I grew up on bmx bikes. I think I just naturally associate fun with the lightest bike I can get. I'm eventually planning on picking up a supermoto, and even though it'll be tall and have pretty tall/wide bars making it feel big, it'll be light enough for me to just throw it around. I've sat on a speed triple and it definitely felt surprisingly smaller than I thought it would.

@ Mister:  I think you are forgetting something about bike buying...it is mostly an emotional purchase...kinda like wanting to date the SuperModel, you are attracted to her no matter what her faults...you will put up with the mood swings, the hot temper, the demanding bitchyness just so you can see what it is like...just like saying "aftermarket exhaust will cure the hot seat issue..." I sometimes wonder if your "Super Model" is a GS500...you're 3" taller than I am, and yet you find the GS quite comfortable...and I can only ride for 60-90mins before my knees want a break (unless I ride with my heels hooked on the pegs...less control and not as secure feeling in the saddle)

For me, I think it is the MT-01...small fuel tank (I don't ride that far anyway... ;))...no center stand for chain maintenance (can get one through SW-Motec...or something like that)...but I like the standard riding position and the sound and feel of the bike (plus being a little rare is a bit of a plus)...will I keep it forever?? who knows...if I was being reasonable I would buy a V-Strom 650 and ride it into the dirt, but it doesn't move me...for me it's more about the sound and comfort of the bike...all other things would be nice to have, but not deal breakers...

I think the Triumph is a sexy looking bike...I would love to take one for a rip, but no dealership nearbye...too compact for my liking...the hotseat thing would turn me off as well...but some will put up with those things for their "Super Model"...

Keep the reviews coming...you do them very well, and us in the frozen north can't ride...so we're riding through your reviews (and magazines...etc...)...YouTube also helps... ;)

Later.

Buying a bike Might be an emotional thing justified with logic - afterall, we don't really need a bike in the first place, right? But that doesn't mean you can't look at things logically.

My test ride reviews I try to be objective - mention the good and bad as I experienced it. Bike Website Reviews and Magazine Reviews tend to never mention the negative or do so but not with any kind of personal opinion added to it.

For instance, today I took an 08 Z750 for a spin - that's three now... a 2010, 2004 and now a 2008. Unfortunately the 08 had been down but it didn't appear to be a highspeed drop.

This Z750 - the 2008 - had the same acceleration performance as the other 2, the same smooth throttle response, the same hard seat. But where the 04's suspension was set for "feel every bump" mode, this was set up for more comfort and the ride was how you'd expect. BUT, the gear changing was clunky going from 3rd into 2nd and generally not as smooth as it could have been - which is either a mechanical thing or poor oil choice.

So three different Z750's and three different rides, with the same engine performance and same hard seat. And while *I* think the seat is hard, others I've spoken to have not found it hard.

I've ridden three different Honda 919s - one with less than 300 clicks on it, one with 5k and one with 11k. The one with 11k was the smoothest and had the nicest ride and the one with hardly any mileage rode like a dog.

I'm not sure if I mentioned my XVS650 Classic ride... so here goes...

(http://static.productreview.com.au/pr.products/146356_yamaha_vstar_xvs650a_classic.jpg)

I know a couple of people that ride this and they raved about it. Easy to ride, pleasure, blah blah blah. So when I had the chance I took one for a spin. My verdict...

Vibrated in every gear. Foot boards, handlebars, everywhere. As you accelerated it got worse until you changed and it got a little better but again worsened as the speed increased.

After a few minutes I found myself trying to push Back against the seat. I felt too far forward and thus cramped. And my lower back started aching after maybe 10 minutes.

Roll on power was pathetic. Even dropping down a gear and trying to go from 62mph (100kph) to 75mph (120kph) was a long gutless slog. There ain't no way you'd be overtaking anything without plenty of vision of the road ahead and a good wind up.

When doing a Tight turn, like a u-turn, the handlebar ends were hitting my knees WTF!

On the plus side, it cornered well. Easy and natural to lean.

So, it's not good for my 6"2 body, but fine for people who are 5"5. The vibration thing Could have been a badly tuned bike.

I've Always advocated Comfort over anything else. If you ain't comfortable, no matter how pretty you think the bike is, you won't want to ride it. Yes, I understand some people like to Feel a bike when they Ride it as opposed to have a bike be auto-everything. But even then the bike has to have a level of comfort as They see it.

I sat on an MT01 the other day. I found the leg position for Me to be how I feel sitting on a Bonneville. But with the MT01 I was sitting higher above the ground. For Me it wasn't quite right. But something interesting at this Yamaha/Kawasaki dealer... the MT01 was getting looks and sit ons while other bikes were only given cursory glances. But, the dealer had every kind of each bike available bar one... Z750 - the two 2nd hand ones they had were sold, the two new in showroom ones were sold as was their demo.

So the Z750 makes the sales quietly while the MT01 gets all the attention. But I think its biggest problem is that it doesn't really have a position in the market. It might be comfy to ride - sitting on it was fine - but it isn't a cruiser nor a sport bike. It inhabits that in between world, to its viable-product downfall.

To me, if I have to spend an extra grand or so to make a bike Comfy, then there is something intrinsically wrong in its design. Others don't mind, which is fine. To each their own. I simply express my thoughts on the bikes as asked and as reviewed. Hopefully I can take an XJR 1300 for a spin soon. I do like them, even if they are all retro and old technology  :icon_mrgreen:

Seems I need to get another video up soon too, eh? I'll see what I can do over the next day or so.

BTW - for something interesting to add to the overall discussion... a fellow I rode with yesterday has a Gixxer 750. When asked why he doesn't upgrade to the liter bike he said, "Why, it won't go any faster than the bike I ride" and he left it at that. And I got to say, man he flies on that thing.

Michael

Quote from: madjak30 on December 31, 2010, 12:12:39 AM
...will I keep it forever?? who knows...if I was being reasonable I would buy a V-Strom 650 and ride it into the dirt, but it doesn't move me...

When I was looking for an XB, and when I first got mine, I swore I was gonna own this thing for 20 years. It's definitely the kind of bike that I'm still gonna think is a cool bike 20 years after it was made, unlike japanese bikes that are updated every 2 years. I look at just about any sportbike from before 1995 and I just see something that looks old and outdated, and even 1995-2000 bikes look a bit outdated, although I know I'd still get just as much joy out of riding one. When you get that emotional attachment to a bike, and don't just pick it for being the lightest/fastest(because you know that's not gonna last long at all), it turns into a bike you can really appreciate for the long run. Even if you're not concerned about what other people think, your bike is still gonna feel old when everyone has a newer version of your bike, and eventually your 360lb 130hp bike is going to be the 'slow' bike in the group. My XB is already 7 years old, and I know I could take it out 10 years from now and still have people come up to me to talk to me about it, which again even if you're not concerned about what other people think, owning a motorcycle is a pretty social thing and you'll still feel better about a bike if people are constantly wanting to talk to you about it. How often do you think someone on an old zx6 has strangers come up to them just to ask them about their bike? aside from the random high school kid that might wanna ask "hey man this thing do some pop-a-wheelies??" I don't assume often.

Regardless, 6 months after buying the bike, which I still love, I know that I might consider trading it in eventually. The downside to having a different bike, and not the same gsxr/zx as everyone else(previously mentioned logical choice), is that it feels like a little bit more of a mental burden. The bike runs perfectly, requires barely any maintenance whatsoever other than a yearly oil change(not even a chain to oil and the valves are self adjusting!), but I still find myself being gentle to the bike at times. If it was 'just another' japanese sportbike I'd probably beat the hell out of it, and have a lot of fun in the process. I'd have no problem running the miles up to 50k and I'd just ride it until it died. I ride the bike like it was meant to be when I hit a twisty back road, but I do find myself heading home earlier if it looks like it's going to rain, and avoiding places you can really only get to on the highway because I hate to waste even a few hundred miles on riding in a straight line and being bored. Knowing that the bike is going to be something special in 10 years, makes me want to keep the bike in good shape for the next 10 years. If I know my bike was just going to turn into an outdated japanese sportbike, I'd run it for everything it was worth until it got there. If I had already owned a gsxr or something like that, and then I got the Buell 2nd, I probably wouldn't consider getting rid of it any time soon. So yes, a bike is a seriously emotional purchase if that's the kind of person you are, but I think you've still gotta take into account the other factors. It will eventually take 2 bikes to replace what my XB can do, but I'm willing to make that sacrifice  :thumb:

@tt_four: ride that thing man...engines can be rebuilt, so can all the other parts...don't keep it in good shape for someone else...you bought that bike because you are passionate about the attributes that it has and you are saving it for what?

I agree you should have some degree of sensibility when buying a bike, but when it comes down to it...the bike has to "speak to you" in some way, or you are just buying an appliance...if you are buying something that is a tool, then that makes sense...but for me the bike is a toy, so it is completely an emotional buy...I bought the GS500 against most friends advice because I just liked the way it looked and it felt comfortable to me (I had also been visiting the Best Beginner Motorcycle site where it is highly recommended)...everyone else told me that I needed to get atleast a 750cc bike to move me, and would probably want a liter bike...I still get a smile on my face when I go in the garage, it still "speaks to me"...(I also talk to my bike... :cookoo:)...he's my little buddy, and I have learned a lot on him...but it is time for him to teach someone else the basics of riding...possibly a great bike for someone that is more "right sized" for the bike...the only sporty bike that "speaks to me" is the Katana 750 '98-'06...not sure what it is, maybe just the physical size, but I do like that bike...but my "yeah baby, that's the one" is the MT-01, I actually chuckle when I hear it's engine idling...I've been a muscle car guy since I was about 8yrs old, and the MT-01 is a muscle bike to me...like Mister said, it's an in between bike...not a sport bike, not a cruiser...and that's what I want, not like anything else (okay...like a Buell, but bigger...wanted an XB9S, but felt like a bear on a bike on that thing...cool looking though)  I found a used '07 MT-01, black on black 8000kms that a guy from the MT-01 owners forum PM'd me about...just waiting to find out how much he wants for it...the '07 has the upgraded 6 pot calipers compared to the 4 pots on the '06 and a few other tweaks...not that it would be a deal breaker, as everything else is the same...but lower kms and the better brakes will sway me if the price is similar...and he only lives about two hours away...and I regularily drive past his place when I am heading out on a road trip for work...he says that he keeps the bike in a heated shop, and I can come by anytime and have a look  at the bike...he is sending me some pics...

As you can tell, I have pretty much decided on my bike...not completely (money isn't spent yet, but...) :thumb: :icon_mrgreen:

Later.

TT:  :thumb: I think you summed it up nicely. "When you get that emotional attachment to a bike, and don't just pick it for being the lightest/fastest(because you know that's not gonna last long at all), it turns into a bike you can really appreciate for the long run. Even if you're not concerned about what other people think, your bike is still gonna feel old when everyone has a newer version of your bike, and eventually your 360lb 130hp bike is going to be the 'slow' bike in the group... even if you're not concerned about what other people think, owning a motorcycle is a pretty social thing and you'll still feel better about a bike if people are constantly wanting to talk to you about it."

When I was at the dealers yesterday, they had an XB12 there and I sat on it. I have to say, just sitting on it, it felt comfy for the butt. And I agree with the "talk about it" thing. We've had people talk to us about our retro GSs while an older ZX10 stood near by. One bloke I ride with bought an old shaft driven 30 year old CX500 and has taken that on some rides and yeah he gets asked a Lot about it - picked it up for $500, spent $700 getting it up to scratch and now he's the owner of a Classic that runs.

I see the modern crop of sports bikes and cannot tell them apart. I need to get up close and personal to find the decal on it that says what it is. R1, CBR, etc. They all look the same to me. But when a bike is retro, it is retro. A new naked GS looks the same as a 10 year old GS as a 20 year old GS. Bonnies the same. The Curvy SV650s has a more appealing (to me) retro look than the more modern Pointy version. A Ducati monster from the 90s looks the same To Me as a newer Monster - and I marvel how they get such a large cc engine into such a small space - the bike remains small in dimensions while the engine size is up there (an old 900 monster engines looks smaller than the GS500's engine, for instance). For me, a retro-esq look is what draws the looks.

I prefer the look of the MT01 over the Vmax. And to echo Madjack, it could be said that more than a bike Speaking to you, it actually picks you not - as is believed - you picking the bike. In which case, riding something other than the bike which has chosen you is Not with the intention of buying the other but rather to Cement in your mind the Chosen.

You mentioned the hotbutt on the Striple I wrote about. From a Vulcan Logic / Appliance point of view, that is a deal breaker. But only if you're looking for reasons Not to get the bike, right? Cause if that has spoken to you, chosen you, then it's an easily overcome thing. Nothing more than a carbon fiber shroud or move it all lower down. From a Vulcan Logic / Appliance point of view, the price of a few years old Striple or S3 vs Brand New Bandit makes the Triumph a deal breaker. But, only if you're looking for reasons Not to get it. Cause if the bike has chosen you, even if the new Bandit was two grand cheaper you'd still buy the Triumph cause That's What You Want.

So when talking about, reading reviews of, or test riding other bikes, you really aren't trying to find ways the others are better than the bike which has chosen you - but rather - ways your chosen is better, while ignoring the worse aspects.

Sure a VStrom has longer range than the MT01, but you're looking for ways the MT01 is better than the VStrom. Sure the Bandit might have better power and smoother ride, but you're looking for ways the MT01 is better than the Bandit - while ignoring the longer range of the VStrom and Bandit's power delivery. Sure Bike X might have more bippy dippies in the instrument cluster, but you're not looking for reasons Not to buy, but ways your chosen is better than Bike X. Which makes for an interesting and fun buying process, doesn't it?

It's like women. You can see two gorgeous women. You look at one and your heart skips a beat, while the other, possibly better looking, does absolutely nothing for you and you wonder what everyone sees in her.

This is a little of tangent ok, but let me waffle as I release my thoughts this way...

There is a concept known as Erotic Crystallization Inertia. The idea is, that at some point in your pubescent youth, some moment happened, some single moment, that you found more Arousing than any other moment even if those other moments were arousing. That moment then Cemented (crystallized) into your brain. And thus an arousal preference is formed.

For instance. You're maybe 15 or 16. You've been aroused by the Victoria Secret Catalog, or glimpses of bra linings at reception counters. But one day you're at a party and a girl happens to fall down, or bend over or whatever. And for the briefest of moments you see her white panties and the way they curve around her. This cements in your head and is the Original Source of your slight fetish for white panties.

This moment doesn't have to be that. It could have been seeing a pantie line in tight jeans, a certain leg/highheel combination, a certain hair color in a certain style, whatever. Think back and I think you'll find some moment, the earliest, where this is the case. And you can no sooner suddenly stop finding green eyes or long nails or girls in glasses to be attractive things to you than stop being a person, cause these things are cemented into your core being without conscious decision.

Now. What if there is such a moment with all kinds of things - housing style, flooring style, cars and motorcycles?

My preference is for round headlight retro sport bikes. Is it because that's what my father rode when I was young, or my uncle and I grew up around that? Is it cause that's the type of bike he took me to school on and the "wow, look, Michael comes to school on a motorcycle, how cool" from the other kids cemented that style of bike into my head? May be. But for whatever reason, it is there. And no matter how well designed a faired bike is, they do nothing for me. I cannot suddenly like faired bikes cause it would mean somehow changing something deep in my core that was cemented in me without conscious decision.

So Madjak, there is something about the MT01 that appeals on a core level. You cannot change this something cause you didn't consciously put it there. Fighting it is futile. You can have fun riding other bikes. But, as you said, the decision really is made. In fact, I'd say it really was made the moment you laid eyes on the bike, wasn't it?

So take other bikes for a ride. Not with the intention of buying them cause we already know it will be the MT01 (though don't tell the salesmen), but simply for the experience of riding another bike. Broadening your riding experience knowledge. And then, write about your test ride here.

Michael

I am going to try to right a little review in similar vein to Mister's recent adventures.

Well I went with Mister to one of his test rides yesterday while he tested out a 900 hornet and the Z750. Not wanting to sit around the shop waiting I thought I would take a Ducati 900 Monster for a test run with him. Now I have always had a soft spot for them and secretly admired these bikes. Who here doesn't swing their head around when they here one coming down the street.

This was a 93 model so it would have been one of the first produced but it was imported into Australia via Japan and still had low k's on it. (Import bikes always have their shady side with speedos being swapped but in Japan it is known to have lots of early model bikes with low klms due to registering issues over there) The bike was completely stock, a little weathered but in good condition in Ducati red.

I had to follow Mister and the salesman on the test ride and first thing I noticed was how tall the gearing was. I did not get out of 2nd gear in the city where the limit was 60kms/h (35mph) and I had to take corners in 1st as the bike began to want go around the corner faster than you wanted in 2nd. This model only had a 5 speed gear box so I was not sure if I was just used to the GS's 6 speed or what. I know it didn't like to follow the other bikes. It wanted to be leader of the pack and just wanted to go!

It had beautiful smooth acceleration when you eased the throttle on and when you gave it a punch it responded like lightning and the sound of the V twin sounded like a small block v8. At one point entering the the highway from an on ramp a quick fistful of throttle and I was doing 150kms/h in an instant with a big stupid grin on my face.  

Riding position was very upright and the seat was comfy. I found my legs hugged the tank nicely although Mister sat on the bike and found his legs rested on the slight fold in the tank even though we are the same height.

It cornered and handle like it was on rails but not as nimble as the GS. I also did find it liked to follow the ruts in the road which got a little annoying at times. It only really started doing this on the road back to the dealer so it must have just been that road.

Other annoying things I found other than the tall gearing of the bike was the clutch and the gear box. I have heard this is a common bug with Ducatis though which is it finds a false neutral if you don't knock the gears up or down hard enough. When you let the clutch out from take off it slipped a little if you didn't give it enough revs and the clutch did not like to be ridden. I do not know if this was due to the fact Ducatis have dry clutches or if was the age of the bike. Also there was vibration at high revs. Not bad vibes but they were there.  But I should not really pick on that due to it being a twin. I could not see myself ever commuting on one of these as it is a bit of a pig in traffic but on the open road it comes into it's own.

I have heard people say that these bikes are under powered and over rated. Maybe so if you ride super sports but the torque, sound and the look makes this bike what it is. My summary of the bike is a positive one and I can easily see why riders fall head over heels in love with these. I think I may have  ;)

(This is the actual bike I rode) -

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff62/icecreamhands/1922-512226-1.jpg?t=1293851694)

Good write up, Twisted.

I'd say my legs might fit if I drop ten or so kilos  ;)

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_AYmU9ozxu_o/TR7GZKrLgNI/AAAAAAAAAcY/8xY9uOoOu-8/Cb-GS-Duc1.jpg)

GS, Honda 919, Ducati Monster. Hoped it would have turned out better than this. Oh well.

I gotta say... after spending some time around the Monster and a bit of time at Ducati in Brissy and hearing/seeing some of the owners coming/going with their bikes, the overall sound - engine and dry clutch - has kinda grown on me. Maybe sitting on a new Monster helped  :icon_mrgreen:

GS and Honda 919 (CB900 Hornet) for Comparison...

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_AYmU9ozxu_o/TR7GZFbSjAI/AAAAAAAAAcc/4Lvf8IsyfX8/Cb-GS-Duc2.jpg)

I've been offered a spin on an SV1000. Might be a while before I can take up this offer as I don't see the rider on rides too often. But it's on the table so...

Michael

Quote from: mister on December 31, 2010, 05:21:55 PM


You mentioned the hotbutt on the Striple I wrote about.

People talk about exhaust heat on my bike. The rear cylinder is right between your legs and the rear header is right behind the frame. The right side of the frame and seat get pretty toasty, but it's usually not an issue unless you're sitting still for way too long. Either way, every time it warms up in summer, I just think 'this will feel really good on a cold fall day'. It's a little easier on my bike though because when the frame warms up, I can just pull my leg out a little bit. You obviously have to be more dedicated to want to ride around on a sportbike standing up just because the seat is hot.

Quote from: mister on December 31, 2010, 11:39:00 PM
Good write up, Twisted.

I'd say my legs might fit if I drop ten or so kilos  ;)

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_AYmU9ozxu_o/TR7GZKrLgNI/AAAAAAAAAcY/8xY9uOoOu-8/Cb-GS-Duc1.jpg)

GS, Honda 919, Ducati Monster. Hoped it would have turned out better than this. Oh well.

I gotta say... after spending some time around the Monster and a bit of time at Ducati in Brissy and hearing/seeing some of the owners coming/going with their bikes, the overall sound - engine and dry clutch - has kinda grown on me. Maybe sitting on a new Monster helped  :icon_mrgreen:

GS and Honda 919 (CB900 Hornet) for Comparison...

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_AYmU9ozxu_o/TR7GZFbSjAI/AAAAAAAAAcc/4Lvf8IsyfX8/Cb-GS-Duc2.jpg)

I've been offered a spin on an SV1000. Might be a while before I can take up this offer as I don't see the rider on rides too often. But it's on the table so...

Michael

geesh that monster looks sexy. A 93 model as opposed to the 2009 GS and the monster somehow looks more modern lol.

Well... it really is a 93 monster compared to an 89 GS - cause they haven't changed much since then  :icon_mrgreen:

But I know what you mean.

Oddly, I think the only change on the new Monster is the headlight - says me not being a monster connoisseur.  :dunno_black:

Michael

@Mister: I think you nailed it with your emotional purchase theory...for me though it isn't really the look (although the simple ruggedness of the MT-01 is appealing now, I really didn't like the look when I first saw it  :dunno_black:)...it was the sound and feel of the bike that sold me...to me it is all about the rawness of the bike...I like the shaking at idle and the "Kodo" or the soul beat of the bike, that's what puts the smile on my face...the handling and the braking is a very nice bonus...the look of the bike has grown on me, I don't know if it would have if I didn't like the sound but now the more modern and sleek looking bikes are too generic I guess...like you said, they all look the same...and it has never really been about performance...0-60mph times, 1/4 mile, top speed...I don't care, if it is fast great but not a big deal either way...I like the fact that wind won't slow you down, or a steep hill...or god forbid both...with the MT-01, none are an issue...is it the fastest bike, definately not...does it accellerate the fastest, nope...but it does okay on both fronts, since I don't speed and I just want to be able to beat most cars off the lights (had an SUV beat me on my GS off the light, wouldn't care if it was a sporty car but a truck?)

I sat on the MT-01 in the show room and it was comfortable (similar to the Bandit) and I always liked the look of the under seat exhaust of the Honda 919 or the Yamaha FZ6...so that was a plus, but I did some research on the net and checked out the sound of the bike on YouTube...I liked the sound of cruisers and decided to take it for a ride...then I was sold...if I'd had the money in October, it would be in my garage right now...I even told the salesman I would be back on Monday to buy the bike...I'm glad I waited since they will be hungrier for a sale now, but I have to wait until the snow clears from the street since I don't want to pay storage for the bike and I want to ride it home...I also have another bike to consider...an '07 MT-01 with 8000kms from a private owner...we'll see how things shape up in Feb...

Later.

Quote from: mister on January 01, 2011, 01:42:46 AM


Oddly, I think the only change on the new Monster is the headlight - says me not being a monster connoisseur.  :dunno_black:

The new ones look pretty similar, but they changed the exhaust, put those air vents through the gas tank cover, and then like you said the headlight. Most of it looks a little gimmicky in my opinion, and I think the older bike looks a little more..... serious? not sure what the right word is. The subframe and seat on the newer bike just aren't doing it for me. It looks like they made changes just for the sake of making changes.

(http://autosguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/2010-Ducati-Monster-796.jpg)

(http://hellforleathermagazine.com/images/Ducati_Monster_1098.jpg)

and no matter how much manufactures think they're making the tail lines cleaner by not mounting the passenger pegs on the subframe, those massive double rearsets are just an abortion and need to be stopped. If you need to mount the passenger pegs off of the rider pegs, make the whole setup out of steel so it matches the frame. Old Buell tubers were like that and they were much less of an eyesore.

I found another used MT-01...the guy wants to get the Super Tenere...it's an '07 Black with 8000kms...he sent me a few pics...

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TR-O03Hi0xI/AAAAAAAAAeQ/sxs60VgR_Js/s800/07%20MT-01-01.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TR-O2ZdQjZI/AAAAAAAAAeU/v32Ufjovl3I/s800/07%20MT-01-02.JPG)
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TR-O3mXAR3I/AAAAAAAAAeY/5x9j9aBXa5I/s800/07%20MT-01-03.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TR-O5MrhFFI/AAAAAAAAAec/tiUBjnhbtGg/s800/07%20MT-01-05.JPG)

He says it has a corbin seat and aftermarket slip ons...and a Power Commander that has been dyno tuned...asking $8000 for the works...that's only $650 more than the asking price for the '06 with over 14000kms on the clock...sounds like a decent deal to me....me likey!!   :thumb:

Later.

Plus, if he's riding with cruisers he ain't flogging it. I think the tires give away a Lot. Are there melted like bits on the side on zero chicken strips? Is the tire looking a little square-ish from commuting? Any guess which bike's been ridden hard?

Michael

Like the tyres on that speed triple Mister? You could tell the previous owner was not scared of leaning the bike over there. And you could tell that 900 Hornet was a commuter for sure.

Honestly im not to fond of any of those choices, so id respectfully have to say that none of tehm would be my choice. ( ergos mainly)

Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on January 02, 2011, 12:42:19 AM
Honestly im not to fond of any of those choices, so id respectfully have to say that none of tehm would be my choice. ( ergos mainly)

Madjaks choices or all the bikes mentioned in thread?

Quote from: tt_four on January 01, 2011, 05:03:07 AM

Quote from: mister on January 01, 2011, 01:42:46 AM


Oddly, I think the only change on the new Monster is the headlight - says me not being a monster connoisseur.  :dunno_black:

The new ones look pretty similar, but they changed the exhaust, put those air vents through the gas tank cover, and then like you said the headlight. Most of it looks a little gimmicky in my opinion, and I think the older bike looks a little more..... serious? not sure what the right word is. The subframe and seat on the newer bike just aren't doing it for me. It looks like they made changes just for the sake of making changes.

(http://autosguides.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/2010-Ducati-Monster-796.jpg)

(http://hellforleathermagazine.com/images/Ducati_Monster_1098.jpg)

and no matter how much manufactures think they're making the tail lines cleaner by not mounting the passenger pegs on the subframe, those massive double rearsets are just an abortion and need to be stopped. If you need to mount the passenger pegs off of the rider pegs, make the whole setup out of steel so it matches the frame. Old Buell tubers were like that and they were much less of an eyesore.

Yes the later model Ducati Monsters seem to be a bit gimmicky as you say. The earlier models are the ones I like. It seems they got there mojo on where as the later ones have lost it even though they out class them performance wise.

Quote from: Twisted on January 01, 2011, 11:55:38 PM
Like the tyres on that speed triple Mister? You could tell the previous owner was not scared of leaning the bike over there. And you could tell that 900 Hornet was a commuter for sure.

Yeah, that's what made me think of it. The tires on the S3 were hammered, abused, an indication the bike has been run hard, on the edge.

Funny, you see some ads for bikes and they say "Only ridden on weekend" or "Not used as commuter" as if being used as a Commuter is a bad thing. I actually prefer it used as a commuter cause it tells me the bike has been treated more gently.

Michael

Quote from: mister on January 02, 2011, 06:09:21 AM
I actually prefer it used as a commuter cause it tells me the bike has been treated more gently.

That's a tough judgment call. I used my triumph as a commuter and that bike got beat on pretty hard. Keep in mind that even though it was my commuter/transportation, it still got out for just as many fun/weekend rides too(technically double duty, unless you see he has another motorcycle in his garage for fun rides), and the commuting meant that it was out in rain and on salty roads, sat out in the rain for hours at a time when I was in work, sat idling in a lot of traffic, and didn't get cleaned as much as a weekend bike would, because it's tough to keep up with a bike that gets filthy from riding in the rain every few days. When I first had that ninja 250 and I used it for transportation all it took was one year of riding because I had to replace everything, brakes, sprockets, chain. It cost me $1000 in work just for it to pass inspection.

Now if you get someone who only commutes in decent weather, and doesn't do much with the bike aside from that, it's probably in good condition. I'm just pointing out that someone saying they commuted on a bike, in no way needs to mean that all they did was commute on it. My ideal situation would be finding a bike that was owned by a 45 year old guy with 2 kids that just took it for weekend rides. I don't mind a bike that's been ridden hard. You're not gonna hurt a bike by revving it and leaning it over in turns. I just don't need someone careless who's gonna be abusing the clutch, skipping oil changes, and starving the engine of oil from too many long wheelies. My other idea situation is a an 18 year old kid who bought the bike 3 months ago and already crashed trying to do something stupid. He's completely given up on riding because he watched too many starboyz videos on youtube and crashed trying to pick up his back wheel. Yes I know the bike is gonna be abused, but I'd be willing to put up with 1-2k miles of abuse and some cracked/scratched/broken plastic to pick up his brand new bike for half of what it's worth.

I'm always curious too, when I go on geicos website and fill out the info to get a quote on a bike it always asks me if it's going to be used for commuting, joyrides, and the other choices, which one they consider to be better than the others.

I agree it's a judgement call. Based on Where they live, Where they work, the amount of traffic such a commute would see, the type of bike, the condition of the tires, etc. But I never see ads that say "Only used for commuting". I only see commuting referenced in an ad if it says "never used as a commuter". The implication is that is must, therefore, be like the other ads which say "only ridden on weekends".

Of course, my opinion is based upon the city in which I live, the general amount of traffic seen in the mornings and how badly I view a commuting run. In this city you can be from just about anywhere in the suburbs to the city center in around half an hour thanks to the motorways, highways, and long stretches of faster paced roads that criss cross the place. So I don't see commuting as a burden on the bike.

I love the ads that say "mature aged rider" or "retired rider" or "female rider" cause they try to imply, without actually stating it, that the bike has not been thrashed. But just cause it is ridden by a mature aged retired female, or any combination of, doesn't mean it hasn't been thrashed and spent its life at redline. I know some Mature Age riders I'd never buy a bike from, and some women who have babied their bike to the point of being detrimental to it.

I guess we all want the previous owner to have had some Mechanical Sympathy for the bike. And we use the wording in the ads as a pre-screen to that Before we go see the bike. So an ad that reads, "mature age rider, sole owner, bought from new" tell us we won't get nasty surprises from an unknown previous owner we are unable to ask questions of, was ridden by someone other than a learner and has most probably been looked after. If it has low mileage for its age and we combine the above, we can be pretty sure it was only ridden on weekends, occasionally. And as an occasional bike, not likely flogged during the ride.

But if we see an ad for an R6, with carbon fiber exhaust, ohlins everywhere, allow levers, blah blah blah, we don't think "Hey, he's just doping it up nice" we think "squid, probably had the guts flogged out of it."

So yeah, overall it's a judgement call based on a whole range of factors including the Type of bike.

(When I say, mature doesn't mean learner, that's not always the case but a made assumption. Guy at work picked up a Kawasaki Nomad for cheap after the Mature Age Rider had, got his bike license, got the Nomad when he was able, rode it for around 1500 clicks before having an off, which scared him and caused him to park up the bike for a couple years before selling it. But even still we tend to think Mature Age means Mature Riding Style = Mechanical Sympathy.  :thumb:)

But now that you mention Commute vs Weekend Riding, I'll visit an online quote system and come back with the result...

Later...

Ok. Details I put in were: XJR 1300, 2005. 35yr rider with 10+yr riding experience, rating 1, garaged at night with immobilizer fitted.

Commute Premium = $238.51
Weekend Premium = $203.61
Less  4 days prem = $215.24

Interestingly, when I changed the Experience to only 3yrs, it gave me the same prem for "less than 4 days". When I changed to Daily, it gave me the same premium. So going by This insurer there is no diff between a fully licensed rider with 3yr experience and one with more then 10. BUT, when I changed the Age of the rider to 42 (picked 42 cause that's the answer to the question of life, the universe and everything - plus - I wasn't sure if it would make a difference at 40 or 41, but figured at 42 it would certainly figure a new category), the premium dropped from $238.51 to $216.33 for daily riding, even though the 42 year rider had the same 3 yr experience.

So it seems this insurer is more about Days on the bike and Age rather than years riding. Interesting.

Michael

Don't forget "Highway miles only". "No stop, start riding". "Country bike"

All this tells me is the brakes had wanna be bloody good on it then.

Oh and I have seen ads that say " Used as a daily commuter". "Great/perfect commuter!". Why? Maybe they're implying to the intentional buyer that you can ride it to work. I have seen these ads mainly on SV650's. So I doubt you would see the same thing written in an ad for say a Ducati Monster.

http://www.bikesales.com.au/all-bikes/private/details.aspx?Cr=4&R=9655599&keywords=&trecs=24&__sid=12CB27B73E2E&__Ns=p_IsPoa_Int32|0||p_RankSort_Int32|1||p_HasPhotos_Int32|1||p_Make_String|0||p_Model_String|0||p_YearMade_Int32|1||p_PriceSort_Decimal|1||p_PhotoCount_Int32|1&__Qpb=true&__Nne=15&__No=15&seot=1&__N=1432%20604%201430%201429%201428%204294967268%204294966919%2079&silo=1400


http://www.bikesales.com.au/all-bikes/private/details.aspx?Cr=0&R=9652198&keywords=&trecs=24&__sid=12CB27B73E2E&__Ns=p_IsPoa_Int32|0||p_RankSort_Int32|1||p_HasPhotos_Int32|1||p_Make_String|0||p_Model_String|0||p_YearMade_Int32|1||p_PriceSort_Decimal|1||p_PhotoCount_Int32|1&__Qpb=true&__Nne=15&__No=15&seot=1&__N=1432%20604%201430%201429%201428%204294967268%204294966919%2079&silo=1400

I think I put the most emphasis on the actual ad itself, and not the way the person tries to describe it. If they can't write a complete sentence, if they don't understand what punctuation is for, if something fishy is going on in the pictures, I tend to stay away. I'm not talking about a typo or two, but if it's the person who you can tell decided they've made enough progress in english class once they hit 4th grade, then I'm not gonna trust them to take care of my potential next motorcycle. Even after that once I went to check out a bike I would put a lot of emphasis on the conversation with the owner. I'm not gonna be too worried about scratches or anything like that. Anyone can make a mistake, and motorcycles are made for having fun on. As much as we pick on HD riders for spending more time waxing than riding, I'm not gonna give someone a hard time for selling a bike that looks well used. If you can show me you have common sense I'll probably see comfortable enough. If I show up and you're wearing a wife beater and your pants are a foot too low, with your poor dog chained up in the yard, I'm out of there.

Over the top are the kids who post pictures of their bike while it still has the stunt/crash cage on it. Give you credit for being honest, but that's just lazy, haha.

Quote from: Twisted on January 02, 2011, 03:12:55 AM

Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on January 02, 2011, 12:42:19 AM
Honestly im not to fond of any of those choices, so id respectfully have to say that none of tehm would be my choice. ( ergos mainly)

Madjaks choices or all the bikes mentioned in thread?

mainly teh original 4 choices. i am fond of the gs tho. ( why im still here ) i am a harley guy by heart. BUTi dont hate on anything. looked at an m109? a largish cruiser type bike, low seat height. But i cannot flatfoot it. cause of my skinny ass, and the wide seat. but it is mega comfy. but teh seat issue killed it for me

No way you could lower it? Seems a shame to give it up if it can be easily rectified?
Largish cruiser?
Wow, just had a look at a few pictures of one and its a pretty damn big bike. Hate to replace rears on it lol.

(http://au.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0S0zvinhiFN2QUAekQW5gt./SIG=12h95l6vq/EXP=1294071591/**http%3a//www.customperformancecycles.com/images/Suzuki_M109.jpg)

Yup, big bike...and I'm not small...the M90 is very similar...725lbs curb weight...the main thing about that bike that is a PITA (pain in the a$$) is adjusting the preload, you have to remove the rear tire to adjust it...???...seems kinda stupid to me...you would think that if it is that hidden they would put a remote adjuster on it, similar to the V-Stroms...I think the M109R is another 40-50lbs though...

I am pretty much sold on the MT-01 now...the bike show is in a couple of weeks, and I will be going to check out that '07 that I mentioned...might just rent a trailer and bring me a new toy home...or park it in my parents garage until I can get it in spring... :icon_twisted:

Later.

Would look great as a centre piece in the living room if you are pressed for storage. The wife would "love" that  :wink:

Wish we had a bike show here still. I used to always go, but then that convention center closed. They replaced it with another right by the old one, but I haven't seen a bike show there since  :dunno_black:

Quote from: Twisted on January 03, 2011, 03:55:46 PM
Would look great as a centre piece in the living room if you are pressed for storage. The wife would "love" that  :wink:

Nope...but if it was a my parents place, I wouldn't have two bikes in the garage reminding her that I bought another bike...better yet...take my old bike to my parents store it there and bring the new toy home...ooooooo, I like that idea!!

See, she parks in the garage and has to walk past my bike everytime she gets into her SUV (which I wish was a car...but no, had to have the 4wd truck thingy...to drive the kids to the pool and grocery shop??)

I need to rent a trailer and take my bike with me...do the exchange and bring the new one home...liking this idea a lot!!

Later.

Quote from: mister on January 02, 2011, 03:22:04 PMI guess we all want the previous owner to have had some Mechanical Sympathy for the bike.

But if we see an ad for an R6, with carbon fiber exhaust, ohlins everywhere, allow levers, blah blah blah, we don't think "Hey, he's just doping it up nice" we think "squid, probably had the guts flogged out of it."

If it just has the usual gronk pipe, faux carbon fiber and 'integrated undertail', the PO is probably just a goof. But stuff like Ohlins, Brembo, or even CRG levers is priced out of the range of the average doofus.

Quote from: tt_four on January 02, 2011, 05:10:53 PM

Over the top are the kids who post pictures of their bike while it still has the stunt/crash cage on it. Give you credit for being honest, but that's just lazy, haha.

My thing is dirty rusty chains. If you can't keep the chain decent, you probably haven't done anything else. I saw an ad for a Honda 919 dealership on CL recently. All shined up on the showroom floor of a dealership. High quality pictures. So clear, you could see the chain about to disintegrate and fall off.... :cookoo:

Quote from: redhawkdancing on January 08, 2011, 02:02:39 PM

Quote from: tt_four on January 02, 2011, 05:10:53 PM

Over the top are the kids who post pictures of their bike while it still has the stunt/crash cage on it. Give you credit for being honest, but that's just lazy, haha.

My thing is dirty rusty chains. If you can't keep the chain decent, you probably haven't done anything else. I saw an ad for a Honda 919 dealership on CL recently. All shined up on the showroom floor of a dealership. High quality pictures. So clear, you could see the chain about to disintegrate and fall off.... :cookoo:

Or the guys who throw tank bags or covers on in the ad. Its like " So how many dents are you hiding?"

Sounds like the MT-01 is the only bike that mixes cruiser and sportbike in the way that you want.

Yup, I've pretty much made up my mind...but I think I will wait a few more weeks before I buy...too frustrating having a new toy you can't play with yet...

Later.

Sat on a Duc 1198s at the DC MC show today. I don't know where they hide the weight on that thing, but I couldn't feel it. Nice sitting position too. Not as aggressive as the Japanese sports bikes. The Gixxer 600 felt okay too as far as position goes, but it was heavy compared tot he Duc.

Check this one out...

http://www.customfighters.com/forums/showpost.php?p=669433&postcount=4

(http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq77/morto151/_PRL1779.jpg)