I am listening to hour after hour of bogus on all radio stations, the NPR clowns are clueless, the rape-a-buick-can's are if anything worse, and the demi-craps are well, recycled npr.
Garbage, jobs are the issue apparently, and apparently this "jobs bill" will do something ... and one fool suggested a bigger and more stimulus ... which he cited 1 example where it may do some good ... if the rest of the economy falls into place - a second train tunnel into NYC form NJ. Utter crap though with the way it will go, we can build a second tunnel and your first tunnel will run 1/3 of its capacity.
So what will create jobs. Mid to long term ... here is my solution.
First hit all the exports to china with tarriffs - yes exports, not imports, exports. Why - china is going to do nothing but rip the designs off and make it themselves. Any company that sells to china by following china's trade practices and rules is basically digging themselves and this whole country into a grave. Whack them. We dont need to sell nothing to china. This cant be a small 2% 3% BS, atleast 300%.
Second, hit imports from china with a stiff import duty. Again 300%. Further enforce a 2 year payment delay in payments, and charge returns @ full retail. As in, walmart buys crap from china for $1 and sells to you for 5. It craps out and you return it. That means $5 comes out of what walmart pays china. I Of that $5, $4 is the cost of handling and recycling that crap. The 300% import tax is there to compensate for all the garbage china does, child labor, political prisoner labor, aiding tyrants in africa and helping them opress their citizens and mining from there etc as well as polluting and opressing their own citizens and neighbors. Add in the other abusive countries to that list and put it on a sliding scale. If they only opress their people but dont support opressive regime's in other countries, that is a 200% ...
I am sick of hearing people talk about jobs like it was some literal thing like this building here. Your job is very much there, it is just done by a chinese guy who probably was a kid standing in front of a tank in tiananmen sq 20 years ago.
BTW another thing I have to say, with 15+ million people out of work, I seriously doubt there are any jobs americans dont want to do. Bogus crap. That entirely negates the need to import any one.
All I can imagine they are doing now is getting to the next election, when the next group of Idiots will repeat the same policies. Much like this group of Idiots repeated the previous Idiots policies.
Cool.
Buddha.
Man, that sounds a little bitter...maybe more than that...I don't know what will save the economy, but taxing the crap out of one supplier is not the way to go...other than being selective bargaining (read racist), it will also cause problems for those that are just getting by...the stuff that comes from China is cheaper, and you get what you pay for...but some people just don't have the spare to pony up for the made in America stuff...you have to remember when getting on your high horse that some families are just making it...literally...yes, the answer is to buy American, but some cannot afford it. But those who can afford it need to make the effort to help out those that are willing to work for minimum wages...it's something we are not used to...supporting the faceless neighbour...but where do you draw the line...alot of American companies are outsourcing for parts and it is hard to know when it is truely American made, or just assembled in the States, or just sold through an American vendor...it is very much a global economy...
I would say to watch out for yourself and loved ones...live within your means and be a little cautious...still spend the money, but don't over do it...
I know our Canadian economy wasn't hit as hard as the States, but we are very dependent on the American economy for our overall stability...if America tanks, Canada won't be too far behind...
Later.
Tax is income theft plain and simple.
There is only one thing that will Save any economy... well, two things actually...
#1: Removal of a Controlling Central Bank and its compulsory Interest Rates. Those who run That bank control the ebb and flow of the economy by playing with interest rates to suit their interests.
#2: Removal of ALL forms of Personal Income Tax. Taxing a person's income is basically a tax on effort and turns us all into middle age serfs working for the Lord. What about Social Services? I'll tell you... the Govt does NOT use collected Income Tax to fund them, it Borrows that $ from the Central Bank and then uses Income Tax to pay the Interest on that borrowed $.
If people have more income, they will spend/invest more and That means More $ In Circulation. And THAT is what will fix the economy.
Michael
I got one fix all. Limit term limits to one term in a life. Our government was not set up for us to have career politicians.
Madjak30: Taxing imports based on origin country's trade and internal policies is not racist, its levelling the playing field. Now what do you think will happen if we taxed the chinese made crap 300%. Guess what, we can make that crap just as inexpensively, maybe 120% of the chinese price - cos we cant arrest people and make em make our widgets. Instead of people buying widgets for 1 buck, they would buy ir for 1.20 and guess what, several 1000 people will be working making them widgets.
Many countries have built their economies with that philosophy as the backbone. India for example, imported stuff in india was unheard of till the 90's, india used a seriously graduated scale for import tarriffs, machinery for example was very lightly taxed, consumer goods were @ near 350%. We cannot entirely close off our imports, no country can. However we can make the chinese consumer crap just as well. It may cost 20% more but I'd also guess it will work better and last longer. Canada has recently begun to be a huge oil exporter. That has helped its economy tremendously. Heck, its helped the US as well cos we dont have to ferry it from 1/2 way around the world.
JB848: Term limits are great, however it wont fix the economy if idiot #10 blindly follows Idiot #9. We should have something like this in front of term limits before term limits will work for the economy. Term limits will also give the 1 term politicians a big incentive to earn (by corrupt means no doubt) as much as possible in that 1 term. May not be a big factor.
Mister: Cutting off taxes - OK lets try this quick one - who would maintain/build roads. India used to have a large scale tax evasion problem, and India printed money to cover it all. If you were to replace taxation with printing $, well it just gives taxation another name. Inflation. Inflation is in fact worse for the poor and retirees than taxation. The fact that they spend most of their income every month means they will get killed by inflation. Remember inflation is stealthy.
Not bitter, seriously I was just hearing too much of this crap on all radio stations (OK fine I had to listen to radio all day long yesterday when working and driving ... OK fine).
BTW I threw Harbor freight and over a 100 bucks worth of their trash under a bus, I returned that crap complained loudly to them, had customers in line say - yea I got a dead one of those too, the batteries last 30 mins or less on full charge, and they said they will bring em back and the lady @ teh counter said yes they will take em back. Booya. However, I didn't think about that when writing this last night, Maybe sub conciously. I am seriously going toward stuff that is good quality these days, dont want 10 doa POS'es lying about.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on October 09, 2010, 06:03:54 PM
All I can imagine they are doing now is getting to the next election, when the next group of Idiots will repeat the same policies. Much like this group of Idiots repeated the previous Idiots policies.
Ain't that the truth
Quote from: gearman on October 10, 2010, 07:27:47 AM
Quote from: The Buddha on October 09, 2010, 06:03:54 PM
All I can imagine they are doing now is getting to the next election, when the next group of Idiots will repeat the same policies. Much like this group of Idiots repeated the previous Idiots policies.
Ain't that the truth
Worse yet, the tea party Idiots are entirely missing the boat. They have some sorta momentum going, and they are blowing it. Watch for the tea party to suffer a big divide in the upcomming few months years. Then they will snipe @ each other and just fail miserably. It will usually occour when they start to pick "their own" instead of the mainly republicans who have hitched themselves to their wagon. Anyway ... I didn't post this thread to post about that, tea party is as good as dead IMHO.
Cool.
Buddha.
VOTE FOR BUDDUH
Feel better now?
Quote from: The Buddha on October 10, 2010, 07:23:24 AM
Madjak30: Taxing imports based on origin country's trade and internal policies is not racist, its levelling the playing field.
JB848: Term limits are great, however it wont fix the economy if idiot #10 blindly follows Idiot #9. We should have something like this in front of term limits before term limits will work for the economy. Term limits will also give the 1 term politicians a big incentive to earn (by corrupt means no doubt) as much as possible in that 1 term. May not be a big factor.
Mister: Cutting off taxes - OK lets try this quick one - who would maintain/build roads.
Level the playing field? Who said it should be level? Go find a copy of "The CandlemakersÊ Petition" where the Candlemarkers petition to govt to Force people into putting blockout curtains on their homes to stop them illuminating it with Sunlight... to... level the playing field and stimulate the candlemaking industry. Tariffs don't level anything. People still Buy the imported goods but the govt makes loads in tax dollars.
The current talking head of the moment - Clinton, Bush, Obama - is a just a puppet for the Big $ Big Pharma Big Insurance people who really pull the strings being the scenes. As the Govt is really a company, changing a few PR people won't change the direction the Co has chosen to go in. But getting the people to champion one PR person over the other certainly distracts from the real stuff going on.
Taxes: I didn't say cut off All taxes. I said
Personal Income Tax. You wanna talk about printing money... it already happens. The Federal Reserve - a Privately owned bank - prints the US $ and Loans it to the US govt. The US Govt uses your income tax to pay the interest on this borrowed money - not pay it back, pay the interest - cause there is no Paying Back. Roads should already be funded with the $ from vehicle registrations, gas taxes, etc. Personal Income Tax is a tax on effort. Let people keep what they have rightfully earned and which is rightfully theirs - taking it under coercion (let us take it or else) is no different than plain theft.
Michael
How about deporting all illegal immigrants and charge the country they are from a sur charge for returning them. That alone would cover the deficit :) Yes..No..?
The gov't has been heavily involved in the banking, insurance, and health care industries for decades and is running them all into the ground, then they bail them out, then take them over even more. "Never waste a good crisis", as Rahm Emmanuel is fond of saying. See a pattern? To make matters worse, congress has gone into recess without passing a tax bill. (that means they want to hit us hard) Businesses don't know what they'll be paying in taxes in less than 90 days, so they're putting the brakes on hiring. Reverse the pattern and jobs will return. If not, we're toast as we'll drown in debt.
Every generation must pay its own way. Throwing trillions of debt on the backs of the young is immoral. That is taxation without representation, since they're too young to vote. That's why we rebelled against the king. How quickly we forget.
No we imprison the illegals, and force them to work. That's china's plan.
I dont have a real solution, but pretending there is jobs behind some magical bill or some budget reform or tax code is foolish. The job you had making widgets, is very much there, it is done by a political prisoner in china.
Cool.
Buddha.
Oh yea I have an idea, make a car that can work forever. It should be made to last forever. It should have a motor that can be quite easily swapped out for newer models, and be quite upgradeable. Like all future generations of that should be swappable. That doesn't mean use and throw, it means quite the opposite. Build it so it lasts for ever. That means no rust, no plasticy crap that is glued and you remove it and its dead ... it will be upgraded when the owner thinks the old version of this or that is not economical. Then the swap in will have to go into the old car. Only reason to toss the whole car is if it was in a wreck.
Yes it will cost more, but not as much more as you would think, but it also will be much cheaper in the long run, and better yet, it will keep this trash out of the land fills, and keep the focus on repair and maintenance which actually keeps the work here in the US instead of in china where all the plasticy crap is made. Think of this as a 350 chevy for your small car.
Cool.
Buddha.
The reason why the tea party fools are missing it ...
There is only 4 ways to cut the deficit in any real terms.
1. Cut medicare/aid.
2. Cut Social security.
3. Cut military.
4. Raise taxes.
All the other cuts will put less than a few billion in the black, and we are looking at 30-50 trillion, few billion wont make a diff.
OK so being "taxed enough" I would venture to guess they are for one or more of the first 3. Needless to say there isn't a single politician who can ever hope to get elected say any of those. So the tea party by default is one of the other 2-3 (add in libertarian to this).
Seriously we are out of ideas. The tea party may have had a shot, but so far their idea sounds a lot like "pamela anderson reading to the blind".
Cool.
Buddha.
Hey mister,
I would not worry too much about personal income tax, after all William Pitt introduced it as a "temporary measure" to keep Napoleon off our beaches, must be paid for anyday now......
Foreign debt is weird. We financed ourselves, our govt and the whole shebang with these pieces of paper that says I O U 100 bucks. seveal billion is held by china, India, UAE, saudi arabia etc. Maybe we dont need jobs, all we have to do is print more of these, then we pay out generous benifits to retirees and public employees and everyone. Works great, the chinese sell us cheap crap, we are happy.
Now at some point in time the chinese will ask for their 100 bucks. Then we can just print it and give em, in fact we print the whole entire 30-50 trillion and give it to them.
That instant the chinese crap @ walmart will go up 3-400%, and they will have a huge competetive disadvantage and worse yet they will not have 1/10th the money they gave us. That will be great for the US economy, we will ahve to make the things we need, it will be cheaper and better ... the trick is to get to that point quick. I think the govt should run bigger and bigger deficits and finance it by selling the IOU's to china. AKA, wha tthey are doing now, just more of it.
The only thing that we need to be wary of ... too much of the IOU's staying in the US in the hands of retirees etc. Its not quite "inter-generational theft". Its "Inter-continental-Generational theft". Debts run up by me will be paid by the kids in china.
Cool.
Buddha.
Ha ha ... try this ...
"If the United States can increase the volume of dollars and it can transmit inflation to other countries to lessen the pressure of debt, then it will bring about a catastrophic influence on the world," said Cheng Siwei, a deputy chairman of China's legislature.
Yes I think that is exactly what we should do.
Keep bond interest very very low - like it is now.
Print $ like crazy and screw them, we dont even tell them. We just fund infrastructure projects, and do all the things that would prep us for the new world order.
Then here is the kicker, do not sell any of those damn bonds to americans, only foreign, especially china and other currency manipulating commies.
When we have run the printing presses till all our infrastructure has been done and the whole kit and kaboodle is done, we then declare inflation is high, increase interest rates on bonds and leave them holding trillions of worthless low rate paper.
If they want to sell the paper, we just print $ and hand it over to them.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on October 11, 2010, 07:49:58 AM
Oh yea I have an idea, make a car that can work forever. It should be made to last forever. It should have a motor that can be quite easily swapped out for newer models, and be quite upgradeable. Like all future generations of that should be swappable. That doesn't mean use and throw, it means quite the opposite. Build it so it lasts for ever. That means no rust, no plasticy crap that is glued and you remove it and its dead ... it will be upgraded when the owner thinks the old version of this or that is not economical. Then the swap in will have to go into the old car. Only reason to toss the whole car is if it was in a wreck.
Yes it will cost more, but not as much more as you would think, but it also will be much cheaper in the long run, and better yet, it will keep this trash out of the land fills, and keep the focus on repair and maintenance which actually keeps the work here in the US instead of in china where all the plasticy crap is made. Think of this as a 350 chevy for your small car.
Cool.
Buddha.
Go buy the new Chevy Volt...the I.C.E. can be replaced by Hydrogen Fuel Cell when that tech is figured out, and the electric engine can be upgraded to more efficient motors when the tech is developed...this is one of the cars of the future...careful what you ask for...but in reality, most people don't want the same car for more than 5yrs...never mind life...GM had a different idea about 10yrs ago, they called it their "skateboard vehicle"...the platform was the same on all of them, but the bodies were interchangeable...family car, minivan, truck...all on the same drive by wire electric platform...no-one seemed to buy into it...
Later.
Right they want new every 5 years, and I guess the car rusting and giving trouble etc just nudges them down that abyss.
The replaceable engine BS wont work if they just are gonna toss it anyway.
Cool.
Buddha.
Legal prostitution.
Quote from: ver4 on November 10, 2010, 09:44:11 AM
Legal prostitution.
Did you not notice the election?
Quote from: Miraz on November 10, 2010, 07:38:00 PM
Quote from: ver4 on November 10, 2010, 09:44:11 AM
Legal prostitution.
Did you not notice the election?
I don't care who you are -- that's funny (and true). Money can't buy happiness, but the Koch brothers proved it can buy a buttload of astroturf.
Nothing for nothing but stopping things like this is a start!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHoAuk76fT8
Just click on it you'll understand!
Quote from: The Buddha on November 09, 2010, 11:52:25 AM
Ha ha ... try this ...
"If the United States can increase the volume of dollars and it can transmit inflation to other countries to lessen the pressure of debt, then it will bring about a catastrophic influence on the world," said Cheng Siwei, a deputy chairman of China's legislature.
Yes I think that is exactly what we should do.
Keep bond interest very very low - like it is now.
Print $ like crazy and screw them, we dont even tell them. We just fund infrastructure projects, and do all the things that would prep us for the new world order.
Cool.
Buddha.
I'm not sure what they will call this new world order but the last time a country went mad printing unbacked money it left us with the Third Reich.
Quote from: uninhibited on November 10, 2010, 09:28:06 PM
Quote from: The Buddha on November 09, 2010, 11:52:25 AM
Ha ha ... try this ...
"If the United States can increase the volume of dollars and it can transmit inflation to other countries to lessen the pressure of debt, then it will bring about a catastrophic influence on the world," said Cheng Siwei, a deputy chairman of China's legislature.
Yes I think that is exactly what we should do.
Keep bond interest very very low - like it is now.
Print $ like crazy and screw them, we don't even tell them. We just fund infrastructure projects, and do all the things that would prep us for the new world order.
Cool.
Buddha.
I'm not sure what they will call this new world order but the last time a country went mad printing unbacked money it left us with the Third Reich.
Wow, I am not a financial guru but I know a bad thing when I see it. When people compare the United States to the 3rd Reich?
First you need to know the monetary system? While I don't agree what the FED is doing, what is the alternative at this point? Have another country own us? It's almost there. While this brings military stability to us, financially it ruins us. The rest of the world does not want us to do this, why? Because the U.S. is the most recognized currency in the world. Why? Because it is guaranteed to be stable and it does not fluctuate. Imagine if you bought a shiat load of stock in Germany? It all got equalized with the Euro, even though German Deutchmark was worth more then a French Frank? In one day the government decided that your money was the same! So if you had 500,000 Deutchmarks in Germany and the same guy had 1,000,000 Franks in France, the sameday he lost 500,000 Euro's?
Now if that don't sound right or scary it should! There was a chance we would go to an AMERO! Mexico, Canada, and the US where going to do this. Well if you don't mind losing 1/4 or more of your wealth then hey no issue but I don't intend to.
Be educated, know what is going on the FED just de-valued your money by 20%. Your one dollar is only worth $.80 cents now. Nixon did this in the 70's. It's a bad deal.
It is a bad deal....our currency is going the other way....it has gone from A$1 = US$0.60 to A$1 = US$1.02 in less than a year.....40% increase WTF!
Not that we are doing any better, it's just that our housing bubble hasn't burst yet...so you're just a little further along the curve.
- Speculative investment in housing starves other things of investment dollars
- Housing is a non-productive asset, it provides no return other than speculative gain
- In order to fix the economy you need to invest in productive assets, things that will produce a return on your investment
- As economic productivity improves, the ability to get control of the debt will improve
- the problem is that in the meantime, all that profit that people "earned" just by speculating on non-productive assets is reverting back to a loss
- so it's going to hurt for a while, as fewer people will have the ability or confidence to invest
I think you'll find that the last country that went mad printing money without matching it with growth in productive output was Zimbabwe....
Here are a couple of graphs to scare you some more...
(http://upstreamzine.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/inflation.gif)
(http://www.learncfds.com/images/graph.jpg)
We really need to take the economy out of the hands of politicians, but then that would be like the judicial system, where its all political ... but well ... not. Weird.
Anyway printing $ is really the counter weight to china. However since china was complaining we are printing what we do is issue bonds and sell em to china, that way we get $ from china and give em paper, that cycle continues ... till china has lots of paper and we have all the $, then when china wants the $ we print it ... like crazy.
Cool.
Buddha.
Thank god Buddha isn't running the country...to trigger happy and bitter....we'd all be effed....
I don't think there is one thing that will "fix" it...but lots of steps in the right direction...just need to push them there...
Later.
Abolish INCOME TAX.
What you earn is your property. No-one - no-one at all - as a right to take your property without your UNcoerced voluntary permission.
INCOME TAX is theft. It's a tax on effort. And does nothing other than make us the equal of middle age serfs.
Michael
Quote from: madjak30 on November 11, 2010, 10:38:49 PM
Thank god Buddha isn't running the country...to trigger happy and bitter....we'd all be effed....
I don't think there is one thing that will "fix" it...but lots of steps in the right direction...just need to push them there...
Later.
Oh yea, that would be very different from the clowns who are running it now ...
Lots of steps ... and most of it will never get out of the gate. The thought I have is that we take a lot of steps in the wrong direction, and shaft china and other countries that use slave labor to get an economic advantage. We have a good system going, just keep it going for the time till china decides to reverse course. Then we just print up $ and give to them.
The thing to remember is, its not us who has ended up here due to our actions, china has played a very big role, I am tempted to get to the end of this line without making any changes.
We're selling bonds to china getting $ from them, and buying their products. Just do more of it with some small changes, like pay for the imports minus returns and that sorta thing. I dunno, currently walmart may be charging back for returns. Walmart is pretty smart that way, just get the same system going, sell em more bonds and keep it going. When they realise they'd want their $ back, and they start to sell the bonds, we print $ and give to them. That will in literally instantly make everything from china be 10-100 X more $ and we can start manufacturing those things again.
Its not that we cannot make things, we just cannot make them cheaper than china. We dont need austerity crap, we can print $ at will, doing it now will just do much of nothing cos china is indexing their yuan to the USD. We need to wait till they stop that, as well as want to sell the bonds back.
Cool.
Buddha.
Germany has to pay back in Gold. Does so. Runs out of Gold. Britain says... we have some you can Buy. Germany goes... sweet, print print print... he ya go, here's ya moolah now give us the gold. Germany now has gold. Brit says... you owe us Gold. Germany hands over gold and says, I have no more Gold. Brit says... we have some you can buy. Germany goes... print print print... here'a ya dosh now gimme the gold. In comparison, Germany's Mark is tanking to the Pound. So to Brit, everything in Germany is cheap as. Brit says... let's buy it, Germany is having a sale.
Fast forweward... China has bonds. They want $. Print it. Rinse. Repeat. The greenback goes down In Comparison. They come in and buy cause US having a firesale cause it's all cheap as. Like Germany.
Step one is.... cease the issuance of currency with interest attached - the Federal Reserve is a Private Bank that LOANS $ to the US Govt at Interest. Oh wait, Kennedy tried that and was assassinated for it.
Politicians don't run jack. They are the puppets of the real power players behind the scenes. They are the Face and when needed the Fall Guys. That's all Pollies are. The bureaucrats and backers is where the power lies - where noone is looking. And we don't Elect them. And they like the game just how it is.
Michael
Quote from: mister on November 12, 2010, 01:29:14 AM
Abolish INCOME TAX.
What you earn is your property. No-one - no-one at all - as a right to take your property without your UNcoerced voluntary permission.
INCOME TAX is theft. It's a tax on effort. And does nothing other than make us the equal of middle age serfs.
Michael
That may be true, however a consumption based tax is a lot more work to collect. The side effect of that trend if it ever comes through to be law would be a explosion of street vendors and no big super markets with electronics cos taxes would be ridiculous for booked transactions, the trend will be away from that. Like in India. I am not saying its bad, we need to keep corporations out of our life.
In any event it will be much more work to collect ... Then the buddha will crank out bars and sell em on every street corner and pay no tax. Whooo hooo
Cool.
Buddha.
Well, in Aust we have GST (Goods & Services Tax) On Services it is another form of Income tax. ON goods 10% is added to get the final price. So a $100 item sells for $110.
Each and every business in the line of distribution has to add this on. And each and every business has to file a quarterly statement of how much GST they have Taken In and How Much they have paid out - for goods they bought. If they paid more than they took, they get a refund. Otherwise they Owe the difference. It's quite simple really. Nothing hard about it at all. Yes, it means more incentive to do deals Off the Books. But why is that a bad thing?
Michael
Its not a bad thing but as the sales tax no matter what you call it increases the economy will just shift underground.
Yes every business will have to add it on - so that will firstly eliminated the part of the supply chain that just hands it off to the next guy. Ergo, bigger businesses like WM will crush the competetion for manufactured goods.
Then farmers will sell out of the front of their farm which is what I'd like to see ... and people will buy food right off the farm cos well, they can get away without paying that tax.
BTW replacing income taxes with consumption tax will result in a near 50-60% sales tax. There will be a lot more cooking the books at the micro level to avoid it. For example, I have a farm and I spend 10K buying stuff, then I sell stuff for 50K, however I'd sell for 30K under the table, 20K booked, and deduct the 10K expense and call it 10K as sales, and be paying tax only on that. We used to do it all the time in india. If sales tax goes up to 50% guess what, I'd be shopping @ a flea market for all the stuff I need. Honestly, farm products going through 10 middle men is garbage, they all dont add no value and they just get it more stale and closer to rotting, however what do people who dont live near farms do ? They get shafted ...
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: mister on November 13, 2010, 11:59:04 PM
Well, in Aust we have GST (Goods & Services Tax) On Services it is another form of Income tax. ON goods 10% is added to get the final price. So a $100 item sells for $110.
Each and every business in the line of distribution has to add this on. And each and every business has to file a quarterly statement of how much GST they have Taken In and How Much they have paid out - for goods they bought. If they paid more than they took, they get a refund. Otherwise they Owe the difference. It's quite simple really. Nothing hard about it at all. Yes, it means more incentive to do deals Off the Books. But why is that a bad thing?
Michael
We have the GST here in Canada as well, and a "new" one called HST (harmonized sales tax)...it is the PST (provincial sales tax) combined with the GST to give you a good "gouge & screw tax"...I luckily live in a province that doesn't have PST...yet...but our GST has been reduced over the last few years from 8% to 5%...
As for abolishing the income tax...well then you will see the increase in sales taxes...but I think they should have one or the other, not both...it just doesn't seem right that we are taxed when we earn it, and taxed when we spend it...and don't get started on the tiered taxation...the more you earn thehigher the rate of taxation?? WTF?? Where is the incentive to make more, unless you can make considerably more...I know guys that take an extra day off every two weeks and their check (take home) is slightly more every two weeks than if they worked all ten days...kinda sucks...
Later.
Quote from: madjak30 on November 15, 2010, 09:18:03 AM
Quote from: mister on November 13, 2010, 11:59:04 PM
Well, in Aust we have GST (Goods & Services Tax) On Services it is another form of Income tax. ON goods 10% is added to get the final price. So a $100 item sells for $110.
Each and every business in the line of distribution has to add this on. And each and every business has to file a quarterly statement of how much GST they have Taken In and How Much they have paid out - for goods they bought. If they paid more than they took, they get a refund. Otherwise they Owe the difference. It's quite simple really. Nothing hard about it at all. Yes, it means more incentive to do deals Off the Books. But why is that a bad thing?
Michael
We have the GST here in Canada as well, and a "new" one called HST (harmonized sales tax)...it is the PST (provincial sales tax) combined with the GST to give you a good "gouge & screw tax"...I luckily live in a province that doesn't have PST...yet...but our GST has been reduced over the last few years from 8% to 5%...
As for abolishing the income tax...well then you will see the increase in sales taxes...but I think they should have one or the other, not both...it just doesn't seem right that we are taxed when we earn it, and taxed when we spend it...and don't get started on the tiered taxation...the more you earn thehigher the rate of taxation?? WTF?? Where is the incentive to make more, unless you can make considerably more...I know guys that take an extra day off every two weeks and their check (take home) is slightly more every two weeks than if they worked all ten days...kinda sucks...
Later.
Actually, if you remove Personal Income Tax the people will SPEND the extra $. So you get $ in circulation and the govt gets an Increase in GST. IN the end the govt does Not lose out as far as tax goes, but the economy improves cause $ is circulating.
But all this assumes the govt - or those who pull the strings of the political puppets - actually wants a flourishing economy. I don't believe they do.
Michael
People in the $/power really have an incentive to keep the vast differences in income getting worse. But taxing consumption will really in a few years be a losing game because the economy will shift underground. Already dont kid yourself over 25% of the economy is underground, and it may be as high as 50% in the poorer sections of the country as well as big cities where there is a lot of street activity.
Also I dont agree that taxing income is a tax on effort. Lets see, my boss makes more $ than I do, but that I'd say is mainly on the backs of working class stiffs like me. I think he needs to pay for bugging me.
Taxing consumption will almost instantaneously eliminate the middle man, push 1/2 the economy underground and the buddha will go 100% underground, make handlebars and sell em on the street corner and take the $ and go to fleamarket and buy cool sheite. Excellent if you ask me, but remember middle men are everywhere ... 1/2 the millionaires and up have made $ somewhere in the supply chain. tax laws have a far greater impact than any one realises. Seriously, I would like that very much, but I'm thinking it will never come to pass. Oh yea IRS will have to be a lot bigger, they have more petty criminals to chase after.
Cool.
Buddha.
I don't know what can fix the economy.
I think i know --who-- can fix the economy: nwo can