I'm planning to do my first oil+filter change this weekend before storing the bike for winter. So I've read the Haynes Manual and it suggests that you apply "a smear of grease" to the o-ring on the filter cover. Is this really necessary or can I do without?
Its good practice to lube up any o-ring before you install/tighten down. I usually dab my finger in engine oil and apply it around the o-ring. Keeps it from ripping/binding and causing leaks.
+1
Dab of oil is fine.
Or so my GF says.
Quote from: the mole on October 25, 2010, 02:55:11 PM
Or so my GF says.
Haha =D I'll keep that in mind. Thanks, guys.
+4 Also the grease will help keep the o-ring in place while you put the cover one.
Quote from: GI_JO_NATHAN on October 25, 2010, 04:16:25 PM
+4 Also the grease will help keep the o-ring in place while you put the cover on.
We have our Winner! :woohoo:
Quote from: MrTwinkle on October 25, 2010, 02:42:46 PM
I'm planning to do my first oil+filter change this weekend before storing the bike for winter. So I've read the Haynes Manual and it suggests that you apply "a smear of grease" to the o-ring on the filter cover. Is this really necessary or can I do without?
To answer your second question, no, it is not necessary. I have done 4 oil changes on the GS and did not smaer grease on the O-ring...it seals and works fine.
Oiling or greasing an O-ring is more for the "spin-on" type of oil fliter....where you are rotating the O-ring against the flange on the engine.......it needs some lube so it doesn't "catch" or distort.......In our shop we use some special crap made by Dow Corining......but motor oil works just fine.
But.........the filter cover on the GS500 is a different deal altogether.......the O-ring simply compreses beteween the cover and the engine...........no sliding or turning or rotating............no oil or lube needed IMHO......
but it wouldn't hurt either, just messy....
Cookie
Wouldn't the oil also help from cracking the o-ring overtime as it gets old?
Quote from: MrTwinkle on October 25, 2010, 02:42:46 PM
I've read the Haynes Manual and it suggests that you apply "a smear of grease" to the o-ring on the filter cover. Is this really necessary or can I do without?
It depends on the nature of your new seal.....Some new seals will stay flat and sit quite happily in the recess, others will want to twist or lift or spring out. If yours is one of the latter a smear of grease will hold it in its correct position during assembly. It doesnt have to be grease, non-setting jointing compound like hylomar, or vaseline or even a dab or two of superglue will do just as well. I would avoid silicone though, you dont want a sliver of that coming loose internally and plugging up some oilway or gallery.
Quote from: ragecage23 on October 25, 2010, 10:47:04 PM
Wouldn't the oil also help from cracking the o-ring overtime as it gets old?
Well, as we say....RTFM..........
It says change the O-ring each time you change the filter element.........so you don't have to worry about cracking O-ring.......No mention of grease, glue, compound or anything.....
Me....I'm too cheap to buy an O-ring every time....but if it is getting old enough to need grease, I'll replace the O-ring.
Mine has no trouble "staying in place" so I see no need for grease for that purpose........."super glue" seems like a real mess, when it comes time to change the ring........also dried "hard" so will defeat the purpose of a rubber ring for good seal.........
Everybody has their own idea.....whatever works I guess........but don't make more work and complication than needed!
Cookie
oops!!!!
Well the owners manual does not mention greasing the o-ring.......BUT the maintenance manual does!!!!
So..........grease that O-ring!!!!
Cookie
I must have done over 60 oil changes on my GS500s and started out just putting a smear of oil on the o-ring and sometimes used the new o-ring and sometimes used the old one. After a few changes I finally got a leaker from a pinched o-ring and have greased them since. I grab a couple finger tips of cup/brg grease and put a heavy coat on the o-ring, put it in the cover groove, and then smeared a little more on it. No problem since, I use aftermarket filters, mostly Fram, and they all came with a new o-ring in the box. The one I changed yesterday took a bit more grease to keep in the groove. That oem Suzi o-ring is way too pricey for something that costs pennies to make.
When I started making oil changes decades ago the cars didn't even have oil filters except a few that had aftermarket bypass types added by their owners and the oil didn't have any detergents in it and looked like a bucket of mud at 1000 mile oil change intervals so progress is being slowly made. :icon_lol:
A gs oil filter hatch O ring does not need oil or grease. I actually silicone/purple goop gasket maker I think on the cover. I sometimes put oil on the engine face, but its just from force of habit, in fact if you dont clean it with some kind of oil dissolving spray (carb cleaner) it will have a bit of oil.
An O ring that is being twisted, or pressed between 2 cylinders, or what not needs oil, else it can catch and tear. It needs to slip @ assembly. The gs filter hatch goes straight on and it just presses on. The thing comming loose from its groove and hanging loose is your biggest threat. Then it will get pinched and cut.
As cookie said earlier, I posted wihtout reading it all the way.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: twocool on October 26, 2010, 02:39:53 AM
"super glue" seems like a real mess, when it comes time to change the ring........also dried "hard" so will defeat the purpose of a rubber ring for good seal.........
Nahhhhhh......so long as you dont go daft with the glue and lather it on it wont cause any problems..........ever used an O ring splice kit??
http://supaseal.co.uk/kits.htm
While grease on the gasket is not necessary it certainly makes installation easier. The grease holds the gasket in the proper position during installation.
It's an old mechanic trick. Being that grease is petroleum based it is considered a safe practice even during installation of carburetor gaskets. The key is to only use as much as you need and nothing more. It helps seal the joint the gasket is intended to seal as well as keeping the gasket from bonding to the surfaces it is between. This is very beneficial during disassembly and keeps the gasket soft on plyable and in a pinch allows reuse of gaskets that can't be replaced at the time assembly.
The grease is meant to keep the seal in place until you get the cover done up...it doesn't keep it from cracking, since it is the seal and the oil from the engine is always against it on the inside edge...cracking or splitting is from the heat of the engine and not replacing it when doing an oil change...if you remove the cover, spend the buck and get the seal...or get the after market filters that come with...cheap peace of mind... :cheers:
My two cents...
Later.
just get on with it :thumb:
Quote from: gsJack on October 26, 2010, 07:42:23 AM
I must have done over 60 oil changes on my GS500s and started out just putting a smear of oil on the o-ring and sometimes used the new o-ring and sometimes used the old one. After a few changes I finally got a leaker from a pinched o-ring and have greased them since. I grab a couple finger tips of cup/brg grease and put a heavy coat on the o-ring, put it in the cover groove, and then smeared a little more on it. No problem since, I use aftermarket filters, mostly Fram, and they all came with a new o-ring in the box. The one I changed yesterday took a bit more grease to keep in the groove. That oem Suzi o-ring is way too pricey for something that costs pennies to make.
When I started making oil changes decades ago the cars didn't even have oil filters except a few that had aftermarket bypass types added by their owners and the oil didn't have any detergents in it and looked like a bucket of mud at 1000 mile oil change intervals so progress is being slowly made. :icon_lol:
What part number FRAM do you use? I see CH 6000 and CH 6001 listed for GS500F...they seem to be different in diameter of the seal...........
FRAM lists one filter for a "shaft drive" GS 500 and the other for a "sprocket drive" GS 500.............WTF?
Cookie
Hmmm. I have been using the Fram CH6000 and the first o-ring was fine. But the 4 I have bought since have o-rings that are too small. I just figured that the batch that went to the stores in this area were made too small. So, Cookie, are you saying the seal that is a different size is the o-ring for the cover, or is it the seal on the filter itself(large rubber grommet)?
Quote from: madjak30 on October 26, 2010, 02:51:46 PM
The grease is meant to keep the seal in place until you get the cover done up...it doesn't keep it from cracking, since it is the seal and the oil from the engine is always against it on the inside edge...cracking or splitting is from the heat of the engine and not replacing it when doing an oil change...if you remove the cover, spend the buck and get the seal...or get the after market filters that come with...cheap peace of mind... :cheers:
My two cents...
Later.
Thanks for clarifying exactly the same thing I just wrote. :technical: Just like you said oil is on the inside and is hot from the engine as is the grease. But as we all know grease gets thinner at a much higher temperature and protects the gasket or seal where ever you apply it during assembly not just the inside. As Buddha said earlier people that take things apart and rebuild them do it as a matter of fact and as a good practice. It just makes sense and a tube of general purpose grease is inexpensive and will last most people years.
My 2 Cents is do it if you have it, and if you don't have it get some, and do it next time you will notice the difference the next time you disassemble it. :thumb:
Quote from: Paulcet on October 26, 2010, 04:58:26 PM
Hmmm. I have been using the Fram CH6000 and the first o-ring was fine. But the 4 I have bought since have o-rings that are too small. I just figured that the batch that went to the stores in this area were made too small. So, Cookie, are you saying the seal that is a different size is the o-ring for the cover, or is it the seal on the filter itself(large rubber grommet)?
I went to the FRAM website.............they show two different filters...........the dimensions are different....I just don't know which dimensions they are talking about..........
They mention a GS 500 with shaft drive.............never heard of such a thing............
So I still don't know wheter to get the CH6000 or CH6001
Cookie
Quote from: Paulcet on October 26, 2010, 04:58:26 PM
Hmmm. I have been using the Fram CH6000 and the first o-ring was fine. But the 4 I have bought since have o-rings that are too small. I just figured that the batch that went to the stores in this area were made too small. So, Cookie, are you saying the seal that is a different size is the o-ring for the cover, or is it the seal on the filter itself(large rubber grommet)?
OK.....I think I just answered my own question..........
The two fram parts numbers.........CH6000 and CH6001.......the difference is the O-ring, not the filter element.
CH6000 has 3.74" O.D. O-ring
CH6001 has 4.00" O.D. O- ring
Specs for the filter element are the same for either/ both
Cookie
SUZUKI GS500E 1989 500cc
SUZUKI GS500E 1990 500cc
SUZUKI GS500E 1991 500cc
SUZUKI GS500E 1992 500cc
SUZUKI GS500E 1993 500cc
SUZUKI GS500E 1994 500cc
SUZUKI GS500E 1995 500cc
SUZUKI GS500E 1996 500cc
SUZUKI GS500E 1997 500cc
SUZUKI GS500E 1998 500cc
SUZUKI GS500E 1999 500cc
SUZUKI GS500E 2000 500cc
SUZUKI GS500F 2004 500cc Shaft Drive
SUZUKI GS500F 2005 500cc Shaft Drive
SUZUKI GS500F 2006 500cc Shaft Drive
SUZUKI GS500F 2007 500cc Shaft Drive
SUZUKI GS500F 2008 500cc Shaft Drive
There is a Vinson Shaft Drive,they must have made a typo or it is the same part that is cross referenced.
I use the CH6000 Fram, my local dealer's catalog shows it for all GS500,550 from 77-10. I saw that Fram site listing, it must be a typo of some kind, never heard of a shaft drive GS500. Also the Suzuki oem parts fiches show the same oil filter for all GS500/E/F from 89-09.
I like to stick numbers like that in the Dennis Kirk search and see what fitments they list:
http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp;jsessionid=BPVRNQTJP45QRQFIDYFCM4WAVAPAQIV0?store=&skuId=30600&mmy=
Like I said gsJack it's a typo but thanks a bunch for the cross reference info :thumb:
Quote from: gsJack on October 26, 2010, 08:45:48 PM
I use the CH6000 Fram, my local dealer's catalog shows it for all GS500,550 from 77-10. I saw that Fram site listing, it must be a typo of some kind, never heard of a shaft drive GS500. Also the Suzuki oem parts fiches show the same oil filter for all GS500/E/F from 89-09.
What about the included O-ring.........does the CH 6000 O-ring fit? What year is your bike?
Yes the FRAM filters ....CH 6000 or CH 6001 are the same element, so will fit all those years / bikes........
Cookie
Quote from: twocool on October 26, 2010, 08:00:35 PM
Quote from: Paulcet on October 26, 2010, 04:58:26 PM
Hmmm. I have been using the Fram CH6000 and the first o-ring was fine. But the 4 I have bought since have o-rings that are too small. I just figured that the batch that went to the stores in this area were made too small. So, Cookie, are you saying the seal that is a different size is the o-ring for the cover, or is it the seal on the filter itself(large rubber grommet)?
OK.....I think I just answered my own question..........
The two fram parts numbers.........CH6000 and CH6001.......the difference is the O-ring, not the filter element.
CH6000 has 3.74" O.D. O-ring
CH6001 has 4.00" O.D. O- ring
Specs for the filter element are the same for either/ both
Cookie
Looks like the 4" o-ring would work for me. I'll get a CH6001 next time. Is that what I should have been getting all along?
You may want to double check your internal specs on the 6001- the opening in the filter that fits over the "shaft" inside is different if memory serves ( not a huge amount..). If it's loose on the shaft you wont be getting very much filtering.If it's too tight...well it wont fit or you may mess up the rubber ring inside .....
The O ring being different in the packaging...(ch6000) -- Haven't had one not fit for me yet...or you can always get them from the dealer (filter and or oring..)...
Poked around for a sec....
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=7597.msg64152#msg64152
Thanks Jared. I'll do some poking around at the parts stores and compare o-rings.
Quote from: twocool on October 27, 2010, 03:48:47 AM
Quote from: gsJack on October 26, 2010, 08:45:48 PM
I use the CH6000 Fram, my local dealer's catalog shows it for all GS500,550 from 77-10. I saw that Fram site listing, it must be a typo of some kind, never heard of a shaft drive GS500. Also the Suzuki oem parts fiches show the same oil filter for all GS500/E/F from 89-09.
What about the included O-ring.........does the CH 6000 O-ring fit? What year is your bike?
Yes the FRAM filters ....CH 6000 or CH 6001 are the same element, so will fit all those years / bikes........
Cookie
Yes, the CH6000 or CH6001 filters will fit all 89-10 GS500/E/F bikes, like you pointed out only the o-ring is different. Not going to check all the bikes listed that use the CH6001 filter but I checked one, the 82 GS1100E, and it uses the same 16510-45040 Suzi oem filter that the GS's use but has a different o-ring listed.
The CH6000 included o-ring fits my current 2002 GS and fit my previous 97 GS or I should probably say it almost fits. :icon_lol: Like Paulcet mentioned above some of the Fram included o-rings are a bit small like they are dried out or something and need to be stretched a bit and held in place with a bit of extra grease while putting the cover on like the one I used a couple days ago.
Since we're already off topic :icon_mrgreen:
Does anyone know who makes the factory Suzuki oil filters?
OK...so I go down to Advance Auto and order two oil filters...FRAM 6001........I figured for $6 each O-ring included, it was a better deal than ordering Suzuki filters online and ordering the O-rings seperate.......
So the filters came in today....looks like correct filter element, but the O-ring is completly the wrong shape!
The Suzuki O-ring is a circle with three indents.........the fram o-ring is more like a square with lots of indents...WTF?
Cookie
Can't answer your question directly, but the CH6000 comes with an o-ring the correct shape. But the last several have been too small to use.
Maybe the CH6001 comes with an o-ring for a filter cover with 4 bolts?
Quote from: Paulcet on October 28, 2010, 05:14:06 PM
Can't answer your question directly, but the CH6000 comes with an o-ring the correct shape. But the last several have been too small to use.
Maybe the CH6001 comes with an o-ring for a filter cover with 4 bolts?
I just checked SHS powersports online where I previously ordered fliters and o-rings OEM......
Filter element is $4.23
O-Ring is $3.35
Just about a buck more than I paid at Advance auto........
You gotta add for shipping too.......but I think I'll order a few at a time......plus change the o ring only when it is looking bad.......also wait to need other crap to make shipping worthwhile.......
Cookie
Quote from: gsJack on October 26, 2010, 08:45:48 PM
I use the CH6000 Fram, my local dealer's catalog shows it for all GS500,550 from 77-10. I saw that Fram site listing, it must be a typo of some kind, never heard of a shaft drive GS500. Also the Suzuki oem parts fiches show the same oil filter for all GS500/E/F from 89-09.
Quote from: gsJack on October 27, 2010, 06:42:20 AM
The CH6000 included o-ring fits my current 2002 GS and fit my previous 97 GS or I should probably say it almost fits. :icon_lol: Like Paulcet mentioned above some of the Fram included o-rings are a bit small like they are dried out or something and need to be stretched a bit and held in place with a bit of extra grease while putting the cover on like the one I used a couple days ago.