Hi, I'm Ken and I appear to be addicted to motorcycles. I say that because I just returned to riding after more than 16 years away from it. Apparently I just can't stop.
I sold my last bikes in 1994, a 1982 GPz550 and a 1987 XL250. After much thought and research over the past year and a half, I bought myself a new 2009 DRZ400SM in June. I've sort of dual-sported it. It now has a windshield, luggage rack, top case and trials tires. Great for gravel and dirt roads and some mild dual and single track offroading. It's surprisingly good on the highway, but it's still a dirt bike .. tall, wide bars, skinny seat and the usual buzz from a big single.
I surprised myself at how much pavement mileage I've put on this year ... surprised because when I sold my last bike I really wasn't interested in anything but backroad/offroad riding. I guess the time off did me some good.
Anyway, with all the highway riding I've been doing this year, and looking forward to more next year, I decided I needed something a little more suitable. But I'm not interested in something that locks me onto the pavement. I simply can't resist a tempting looking backroad or trail if I'm in no hurry to get somewhere (I'm retired so I'm rarely in a hurray). I looked at the "real" dual sport bikes, like the 650 Vstrom and similar but they're way too big for my 29" inseam. I don't need all that extra power and especially not the weight that goes with it. So I decided to buy good used 1994 GS500E and dual-sport it myself. That's not a difficult thing considering all that really means is dual-sport tires, like Avon Distanzias or Metzeler Tourances, and wider, taller bars. Maybe a skid plate to keep gravel from chewing up the pipes and frame downtubes.
I know that most in here seem to like to turn their GS500's into sportbikes, if they mod them at all. But if anyone has dual-sported theirs or knows someone who has, I'm sure open to any suggestions, hints and tips. Suspension is of particular interest since it's likely pretty sacked on a 16 year old bike and will probably need upgrading anyway.
...ken...
I think another big issue with the bike as a dual-sport is going to be foot-peg position. Even in their standard configuration, they are pretty far back to be confidence inspiring in the dirt. Also, don't expect to ever be going fast over whoops and pot-holes with the stock suspension. Although it may be soft enough, I don't think there is nearly enough travel, because it was designed for street use.
If you want to continue with your project, go ahead. Still, I think you might want to look a little more at other dual sport and adventure-touring bikes. I have a 1988 Honda NX650 that has a very low seat hight for a dual sport, does great off-road and is comfortable up to 70mph on the road and like almost any motorcycle, you can lower it further and cut some foam out of the seat. Besides, if you can ride a DRZ you can ride anything, doesn't it have a 39" seat height?
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288338
This should be a good source for some inspiration.
i've got my stock-ish gs into some pretty weird places. Seemed to handle it fine.
I think it was about 17km each way of this kind of terrain. no drama.
(http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz97/unclecorndog/IMG_1297.jpg?t=1291689520)
(http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz97/unclecorndog/IMG_1295.jpg?t=1291689520%5Bimg%5D%3Cbr%20/%3E%5Bimg%5Dhttp://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz97/unclecorndog/IMG_1303.jpg?t=1291689520)
Thanks for the responses. In order from back to front:
+10 Clancy!! That's exactly the sort of off-pavement stuff I want to be able to do with it. I'll probably use a little more aggressive tire. I like the Metzeler Tourance my friend uses on his BMW GS. You said "stock-ish". Can you expand on the "-ish" part please?
+1 saxman. That was a very interesting read. But it's way beyond what I'm after. I don't need to build a motard anyway ... I already own one.
Bluesmudge, thanks for the suggestions and concerns. In no particular order: Re: seat height .. My Dizzer is an SM .. 17" wheels, 34.9" seat height. I've swapped seats for the Suzuki "gel" seat for about an inch and I've set the rear preload on full soft for probably another inch when my butt is on it. I can tiptoe both sides on flat ground. I'm not entirely satisfied with the seat height yet but I'm close.
Re: the NX650, as far as I know Honda does not sell an adventure tourer/dual-sport in Canada. As I already mentioned, I don't want anything that big anyway. Don't need the power; don't want the seat height and weight.
I mentioned that I sold my last bike 16 years ago. I didn't mention that I rode for 30 years. To save you trying to do the math, I turned 64 on Thursday. I'm a donker now. I got all that other testosterone driven stuff out of my system in my former riding life.
I mentioned that I bought a DRZ400. I plan to keep it. Here's a pic.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/kganshirt/Other%20Projects/2009%20DRZ400SM/p_00100.jpg)
If I want to go for a ride that's all or mostly off the pavement, e.g. gravel/dirt roads and/or trails, I'll take the Dizzer. If we plan to ride a bit of pavement to get there, that's okay. I've done 300km highway days with no great difficulty. I just prefer not to do that much pavement with it.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/kganshirt/Other%20Projects/2009%20DRZ400SM/p_00075.jpg)
What I want is something more civilized for when we plan to do all or mostly pavement for the day. But I want the ability to toodle down roads like in Clancy's beautiful pictures. Any reasonably "standard" street bike is capable of doing that without a lot of modification. As you can see in Clancy's pics, there is nothing there to tax a street bike suspension.
I really hate it when old phartes like me get into "back in the good old days" stuff because they really weren't all that good, technology-wise. No way I want my 1964 Triumph back. But. During my thirty years of riding you could always buy a "standard" motorcycle. They were superb do-everything bikes. All you really had to do if you were going to ride backroads was put a slightly more aggressive tire on and you were good to go. Unfortunately, today there are no longer any standard motorcycles. The naked pre-2003 GS500E is the closest I can find. For my purposes, it will do, I think.
I don't need longer travel but I'm sure open to suggestions for upgrading the suspension. Probably something more progressive, so I get some compliance for the ripples and sharp edges but a little stiffer as it compresses to avoid bottoming hard if a guy happens to hit a bit of a hole.
...ken...
just intake, jets and exhaust mate. stock shocks.
Quote from: Clancy on December 06, 2010, 09:00:38 PM
just intake, jets and exhaust mate. stock shocks.
Thanks. I see the exhaust. What is it and how much louder than stock?
What did you do to the intake? If there's a thread I should search for, I'll be happy with just a quick reference what to search for.
...ken...
its an Ixil an its pretty loud.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdZcHScKNNI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdZcHScKNNI)
Umm.. rejetted carbs. 20, 65, 147.5 off hand.
K & n lunchbox air filter. Search any of those key words and you'll get a million hits.
I'd say half the people on this site have redone intake exhaust and jets. preyy common mod followed by progressive shocks.
A bloke by the name of Buddha on this site is the jetting guru. I'd be surprised of he doesn't pipe in on this thread sometime. Mentioning jets is like his bat signal.
Quote from: Clancy on December 06, 2010, 09:33:57 PM
Mentioning jets is like his bat signal.
Lol.
If you can turn a screwdriver, you can rejet a Gs. I did it at 16 without ever having seen the inside of a carb. If you will be playing in the dirt, I wouldn't touch the intake. Exhaust is decent with a few holes drilled in the baffle, I wouldn't waste money on a shiny pipe if it's going to see a lot of rocks and dirt.
Oh, and welcome to the site
I've ridden my stock GS a bit on roads similar to Clancy's photos, no problem, but the stock forks will bottom fairly easily on a bumpier trail. Mine had 1" lower bars when I bought it, if I was doing much dirt riding I'd like to go an inch or two above stock and move the footpegs forward a couple of inches. But that would mean modifying the gear lever linkage, as your foot would be too close to the pivot.
No probs on this...
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4690556150_e5d44dfe1d_z.jpg)
Michael
Yeah I've been thinking about this for a while as well. You for sure need progressive front springs, and maybe emulators and heavier weight oil. Also maybe swap to a kat or I think R6(?) shock to get a little lift and stiffness. You can also lift the front end up a half inch or so by sliding the forks down to the top of the triple trees.
5-10 years ago I wouldn't have been too sure about the idea, but lately after seeing some of the supermoto/street bikes, like the ducati hypermotard and some of the KTM bikes, it's a lot easier to see a cross between the two. I understood the function of a dirtbike you would ride on the street, but when some of those newer bikes started coming out they just looked way to big and heavy to really be lumped in with supermotos, but it seems to work. The GS obviously isn't as big and heavy as those bikes, but some better tires and upright handlebars and you should be fine.
When me and my wife bought her GS, I tried to teach her how to ride up at her parents house. They had a giant yard and I definitely did a bit of offroading on the GS when I'd play around on it. It clearly wasn't a dirtbike, but it worked and with some better pictures it would've been fine.
Wish I could see the picture of your DRZ! I'll have to wait until I get home since your images are blocked on my work computer. The guy I usually ride with has one and it looks like a lot of fun. I've been toying with the idea of getting one, but I keep going back and forth. I'm still young though so I'm sure I'll definitely own one at some point over the next few years.
@Michael -- Yes, that's exactly the sort of thing I will do on it when the opportunity presents itself. :thumb: The idea is that many days I ride with friends who are pavement-only guys. If they see a little dust on the road they turn around. So the GS is for those days. But a couple of the guys I ride with have dual-sports (adventure tourers, whatever) ... BMW f650GS, Suzuki Wee-Strom. So sometimes in the middle of the ride we'll take a dirty "short-cut" on something like that road and meet the others somewhere up the road. Like that. So my GS will be mainly a street bike that I can swing off onto that sort of road, or the one Clancy showed us, without hesitation or even slowing down much.
@JoNathan -- What's an "emulator"? I've seen it mentioned a couple of times now in this forum. I'm a computer professional so I understand it in that context. But in all my years of motorcycling and teaching riding I've never encountered it in the context of motorcycles. Help? :confused:
Quote from: tt_four on December 07, 2010, 06:06:56 AM
5-10 years ago I wouldn't have been too sure about the idea, ...
Actually, 5-10 years ago you could still do it more easily than today because there was still a pretty good selection of standard motorcycles. Standard motorcycles need very little modification to take off the pavement onto roads like Clancy and Michael have shown us. When I bought my first motorcycle in 1965 - a very slightly used 1964 650cc Triumph - lots of the routes we call highways today weren't paved yet. So it was normal to drive/ride half the time on unpaved highways. I was stationed on Vancouver Island at the time and most of the northern half of the Island was unpaved. If you wanted to travel anywhere up there you simply drove on gravel.
I'm not complaining or bragging. That's simply the way it was. And standard motorcycles with a good all-purpose tire did it just fine. We just didn't think about it.
If you want a real adventure tourer, like the BMW GSs or V-Stroms or Triumph Tigers, etc., which you want to take in a wider variety of rougher terrain, of course you will want a little more travel and ground clearance. But that's not what I'm after. Oh, I want that, but I chose to take care of the more serious offroad needs by getting a motard and putting trials tires on it.
After riding the Dizzer over 5,000km this summer - more than half of it off the pavement - I know that I don't need huge ground clearance or loads of suspension travel for what I want to do. The only time I actually used any significant fraction of that capability on my Dizzer was when a buddy and I took our bikes out to the Rockies for a week and did a fair bit of moderate double and single track. Otherwise, the picture above where you can see my Dizzer and a buddy's BMW GS out in a field shows about the most aggressive I'll get with the GS. My buddy has no knees left - the payoff from years of skiing and really aggressive dirt biking - so he can't stand on the pegs any more. I won't have any concern taking my GS anywhere he's likely to take his GS, even though the bikes are quite different.
Quote from: tt_four on December 07, 2010, 06:06:56 AMI'm still young though so I'm sure I'll definitely own one at some point over the next few years.
I sincerely hope you do. Almost no matter where you live, there is so much interesting country out there that is only reachable by going off the pavement. If you can ride on roads like Michael and Clancy showed us, above, you will have the opportunity to see so much more of the beauty of whatever country you are in. And usually way less traffic to intrude on the joy of the uncaged motorcycle experience.
You don't need to be a motocross rider to get there. You just need to have a bike that won't get you in trouble on a bit of loose gravel and perhaps the occasional puddle and have the willingness to learn how to ride on it. The added bonus is that when you develop the skills to be comfortable riding on roads with loose gravel, you will find your pavement skills will go up a notch.
Cheers.
...ken...
Quote from: Ken in Regina on December 07, 2010, 10:17:11 AM
I sincerely hope you do. Almost no matter where you live, there is so much interesting country out there that is only reachable by going off the pavement. If you can ride on roads like Michael and Clancy showed us, above, you will have the opportunity to see so much more of the beauty of whatever country you are in. And usually way less traffic to intrude on the joy of the uncaged motorcycle experience.
You don't need to be a motocross rider to get there. You just need to have a bike that won't get you in trouble on a bit of loose gravel and perhaps the occasional puddle and have the willingness to learn how to ride on it. The added bonus is that when you develop the skills to be comfortable riding on roads with loose gravel, you will find your pavement skills will go up a notch.
I spend a lot of time going back and forth as to what would be a good pair of bikes to cover most of my needs. The majority of my riding is just fun evening/weekend rides. I live in the city so I don't need anything for commuting, or highway riding, or even running to the grocery store since I can just walk/bicycle just about anywhere faster than I can get there on a motorcycle. A supermoto would fill 95% of my needs, with the only downside being the seat height in stop and go traffic since I'm only 5'8. Currently I've got a Buell xb9 and the GS. The GS is getting sold in spring and I'm picking up something next fall to replace it. I seriously thought about a supermoto for that, but the XB sucks on the highway at anything over 65mph, and for a 984cc bike the 92hp is a little dissapointing. The only reason I don't want to pair it up with a DRZ is because if I'm going to have 2 bikes I'd really like one of them to be able to be ridden on the highway for longer periods of time, as well as something with a bit more of a top end punch to it. My current thought is to pick up an old gsxr streetfighter project, which would cover highway travel if I need it, and then the DRZ could cover most other things, but it still wouldn't be for 1.5-2 years until I started thinking about trading in my XB on one. If I'm gonna trade in the Buell I'd much rather try to find a street legal RMZ450 or something like that. 220lbs with 50+hp sounds like more fun than I could handle!
(http://cdn.images.pistonheads.com/aimg/1861/1861782-3.jpg)
Yeah - bone stock no, I put in new springs up front GS500 and I ride on stuff similar to what Mister posted (maintained town gravel road - maintained meaning it's graded once or twice a year, and they plow the snow off it.) I would not call it dual-sport, and think it's too heavy to be a true dual sport (as in out in the woods). But fine on dirt roads, as long as you don't treat them like pavement (the ball-bearing effect of loose gravel will teach you not to do that, should you be so silly.)
+1 DoD#i. That's what I'm after.
There's even an upside to "the ball-bearing effect of loose gravel ". It's way easier to hang the back end out on gravel than on pavement. Even at my advanced age that's still a hoot! :woohoo:
As far as weight, compare the specs of a naked GS500, any year, to, say, a BMW f650gs or a 650 V-strom or .... you get the idea. Yes, my GS500E is about 100lb more than my DRZ. But it's also about 100lb lighter than my buddy's BMW 650GS. Right in the sweet spot for something that's nice and comfy for mainly pavement riding with an occasional toot down a gravel road or an easy cowtrail.
@tt_four -- Instead of getting rid of the GS, just put some Metzeler Tourances (http://takapiha.org/wp-content/inline_images/2008/07/tourance-206x300.jpg) or Avon Distanzias (http://www.bits4motorbikes.co.uk/Tyres/Avon/avon_distanzia.jpg) on it and go learn to ride on gravel. Heck, just take it out for a backroad ride as it sits and see how it works. It's fun!! You'll see some places you wouldn't have, otherwise. It will also give you an idea just how much "dirtier" you really want to get. Also, the tires I just mentioned, and similar, are still pretty good street tires so you really won't lose anything on the street. That's what they run on super motards and other hooligan bikes!!
...ken...
Now you guys got me thinking about BMW F650 forks on the front end (same 37mm diameter) and a longer shock in the rear...
If the rear is lower than the front, you're kinda moving the footpegs forward...
I really like the looks of those tires. I grew on on bmx bikes, and to be honest am kinda scared of what I'll get into if I have a bike that I can bounce of walls without it getting hurt. I remember the abuse I put the BMW gs650 dual sport through when I had it as a loaner bike. I'd be even worse on a bike that's 200lbs lighter.
Those tires look like fun too. I'll have to see how many places there are out here where I could even go off road. I'd definitely want some tires that give me options though.
Quote from: Ken in Regina on December 07, 2010, 10:17:11 AM
@JoNathan -- What's an "emulator"? I've seen it mentioned a couple of times now in this forum. I'm a computer professional so I understand it in that context. But in all my years of motorcycling and teaching riding I've never encountered it in the context of motorcycles. Help? :confused:
...ken...
Basically, an emulator is a little valve that goes in your forks underneath your spring and your damper rod. It adjusts your low speed dampening and allows you to tune your high speed dampening to adjust the firmness of your ride. Mine is from Race Tech.
Thanks JoNathan. That sounds like something worth checking out.
...ken...
I have stock GS with road tires, but still i like driving gravel roads like this
(http://p1.bikepics.com/pics/2010%5C05%5C29%5Cbikepics-1985577-800.jpg) (http://bikepics.com/members/perttUP/95gs500/)
Beautiful picture, pertt-UP-. :thumb: I love finding old buildings like that. That one is in particularly good shape. I hope my purple one likes to do that as much as your blue one. :cheers:
...ken...
I am happy with the Bridgestone bt45's on dirt for now, but I want to try the Anakee-Tourance combo when I get to the Sahara next year. I found 130/80 Tourance for the rear, I think that should be OK. What's up with the front? Anyone knows what size Tourance or Anakee would fit the gs500 rim? Is there an even more dirt/sand orientated tyre that would fit?
Metzeler makes a 110/90-17 Tourance. It's listed as a "rear" tire but putting it on the front should not be an issue. I've been running "rear" tires on the front of my DRZ super motard all this year because finding 17" "front" tires can be difficult. I had the dealer remove the stock supersport tires before I even picked the bike up. Those tires looked almost like slicks to me and I didn't plan to be doing the hooligan thing with the bike. :cookoo:
They installed Kenda 761 (http://www.kendausa.com/en/home/motorcycle/dual-sport/k761-dual-sport.aspx) on both ends for me, straight up trade for the stock tires. I still didn't like the offroad traction so I pulled the Kendas off and installed IRC GP1 on both ends. I'm much happier ... even on pavement, surprisingly. I don't have any experience with the Michelin Anakee. I wanted them instead of the Kendas when I bought the bike but my dealer couldn't get front or rear in the size for the DRZ. My BMW 650GS friend loves the Tourances and that's all he runs on both ends.
If you are interested in moving to something more aggressive than the dual-sport (aka enduro-street) tires like the Tourance or Anakee or Avon Distanzia, the next step is a trials tire. Metzeler's Enduro 3 Sahara (http://www.metzelermoto.com/web/catalog/moto/moto_catalogo_schedaDescription.page?categoria=/catalog/moto/off_road/enduro_on_off&vehicleType=MOTO&product_id=881941&uri=/metzeler/en_IT/browser/xml/catalog/moto/OffRoad_Enduro3.xml&menu_item=/products/catalog/off_road) is a very interesting pattern. Or you can get a more conventional trials pattern like the IRC GP1 (http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/2/29/393/9031/ITEM/IRC-GP-1-Dual-Sport-Rear-Tire.aspx) that I'm running front and rear on my DRZ. There are half a dozen manufacturers who make a virtually identical pattern.
I plan to try the Kenda 761's that I took off the Dizzer on the GS first and see how I like a dual-sport tire like that for traction. I don't know if I'll like them any better on the GS than I did on the DRZ. One of the problems I had with the Kendas on the DRZ is that they could never get them balanced properly. They had a distinct "hop" at between 60kph and 75kph. Above that, there was still a fair bit of unpleasant vibration. I didn't realize just how much there was until I took the Kendas off and put the IRC trials tires on. Once the vibration was no longer there, it was obvious just how bad it had been.
But I'll try the Kendas on the GS just to see how I like them for gravel roads. I would prefer to stay with a dual-sport pattern on the GS, even if I end up tossing the Kendas (if I can't balance them better on the GS than on the DRZ) and getting the Tourance. Dual-sport tires are pretty much as quiet on the highway as street tires. A trials pattern is a little noisy at highway speeds so I really don't want to put them on the GS which will spend most of its time on the highway.
...ken...
Found this on the web , don't know anything about it but that's a dual sport GS :icon_lol:
(http://gstwins.com/photogallery/albums/userpics/13266/normal_alsdsbum.jpeg)
(http://gstwins.com/photogallery/albums/userpics/13266/normal_aldfdsfum.jpeg)
Hello Affschnozel,
That's pretty much what I'm thinking of. It's really nice to be able to see what mine might look like when I'm done. Tires like that and something like those hand guards, too. Probably get my friend to weld up a luggage rack similar to that one. It's nice to see that I will be able to fit a high front fender if I decide I need to. I will certainly put some sort of windshield on. That picture is a great find. Thanks so much for sharing it.
The project is now real. I picked up the bike on Friday afternoon so it's sitting in my shop while I decide exactly how to proceed. It's a 16 year old bike. It's in good shape for a bike that old and runs nicely. But there is a bunch of basic repair/maintenance that I think I will need to do before anything else, just to feel comfortable when I put it on the road in the spring.
...ken...
Quote from: Ken in Regina on December 06, 2010, 08:30:39 PMI really hate it when old phartes like me get into "back in the good old days" stuff because they really weren't all that good, technology-wise. No way I want my 1964 Triumph back. But. During my thirty years of riding you could always buy a "standard" motorcycle. They were superb do-everything bikes. All you really had to do if you were going to ride backroads was put a slightly more aggressive tire on and you were good to go. Unfortunately, today there are no longer any standard motorcycles. The naked pre-2003 GS500E is the closest I can find. For my purposes, it will do, I think.
I think you can still find plenty of standard bikes now-a-days. Sure, they're not nearly as common - all the young kids want supersports, all the old guys want cruisers. But there's still bikes like the FZ-6, SV650, Ninja 650, that are still very standard-ish.
I remember when I first got into riding, all I wanted was a supersport. Now, I think that a standard and a sport-tourer are all of the bikes I want in my garage. And I don't think a cruiser will ever be something I'd own.
Quote from: ivany on December 14, 2010, 12:35:46 PM
I think you can still find plenty of standard bikes now-a-days. Sure, they're not nearly as common - all the young kids want supersports, all the old guys want cruisers. But there's still bikes like the FZ-6, SV650, Ninja 650, that are still very standard-ish.
Hi ivany,
We are clearly in different age groups. (http://gansk.sasktelwebsite.net/images/o.gif) "standard-ish" is right, emphasis on the "-ish" for sure.
The riding position on even the pre-2003 GS500E is still somewhat sportbike-ish .. leaned forward to get to the bars and feet up under your ass. The three you listed are the same or even more so. The Ninja 650 is fully faired. You can't even buy a naked version. Can you buy a naked SV650?
...ken...
I like, and would be interested in, the crash guard for the instrument nacelles.
2009 was the last year for the naked SV650 here in Canada, same as the naked GS500. The naked version of the Ninja is the ER-6n, but a better option for a standard is the Versys. Honda makes the CBF600 that is closer to a standard bike with a half faring (kinda looks like a V-Strom-ish ;))
Yamaha has come out with the FZ8...Suzuki is supposed to come out with their TU250 this year in Canada...might be a little to small cc's for what you are wanting it for...Suzuki also has the Gladius which effectively replaced the naked SV650 in 2009...
The naked bikes (standards) just don't have the popularity here in North America, so there isn't the selection as in Europe...they've even dropped the Bandit in favour of a fully fared version GSX1250FA... :dunno_black:
You could also check into a Harley Sportster...I know, I know...it is basically a standard bike (was concidered a sport bike in the '60s)...Triumph Bonneyville?
I think the GS would work, but you would be more comfortable on a Versys or V-Strom...the extra suspension would be appreciated on potholed dirt roads.
Good Luck!!
Later.
I was just searching BMW F650 forks, and found this: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=486001
So, it might not be such a good idea to get F650 forks.
Quote from: madjak30 on December 14, 2010, 04:54:09 PM
2009 was the last year for the naked SV650 here in Canada, same as the naked GS500. The naked version of the Ninja is the ER-6n, but a better option for a standard is the Versys. Honda makes the CBF600 that is closer to a standard bike with a half faring (kinda looks like a V-Strom-ish ;))
Yamaha has come out with the FZ8...Suzuki is supposed to come out with their TU250 this year in Canada...might be a little to small cc's for what you are wanting it for...Suzuki also has the Gladius which effectively replaced the naked SV650 in 2009...
The naked bikes (standards) just don't have the popularity here in North America, so there isn't the selection as in Europe...they've even dropped the Bandit in favour of a fully fared version GSX1250FA... :dunno_black:
Kwaka's FZ8 seems to be a necked down liter bike. Looking at the specs they are essentially the same weight. So the FZ8 would be pushing the heavier bike with the smaller engine. Of course, it'd still leave the GS500 eating dust.
Aust also lost the naked SV650 - want a naked 650 Suzuki? Then it's the Gladius for you.
have heard Yamaha isn't making any more FZ6s. But also heard, they are in trouble as they've over produced by a Mile. Shut factories down. Warehouses full. But they aren't as reliable as Suzukis, Hondas and Kwakas in the Jap bike area.
Naked retro from Kwaka = Er5 and ZR7. Semi naked... Z750
Michael
Yep SV650 is nekid, S has the fairing. I'm in the process of installing handguards on my F. I really like em so far. They are the Star series from PowerMadd.
Quote from: Ken in Regina on December 14, 2010, 04:34:46 PM
Quote from: ivany on December 14, 2010, 12:35:46 PM
I think you can still find plenty of standard bikes now-a-days. Sure, they're not nearly as common - all the young kids want supersports, all the old guys want cruisers. But there's still bikes like the FZ-6, SV650, Ninja 650, that are still very standard-ish.
Hi ivany,
We are clearly in different age groups. (http://gansk.sasktelwebsite.net/images/o.gif) "standard-ish" is right, emphasis on the "-ish" for sure.
The riding position on even the pre-2003 GS500E is still somewhat sportbike-ish .. leaned forward to get to the bars and feet up under your ass. The three you listed are the same or even more so. The Ninja 650 is fully faired. You can't even buy a naked version. Can you buy a naked SV650?
...ken...
The ninja 650 is fully faired, but sits very upright. It has a naked option in the ER-6N.
The FZ-6 is as upright, if not more-so, than the GS500E. Don't be fooled by the plastics in the front, that's just to trick Americans into buying them ;) The bikes are still quite upright.
Found an interesting list of fork legs on ADVrider (and other street-to-dual-use bikes: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330726):
37 Honda CR-80R (96-98)
37 Honda CR-80R (99-02)
37 Honda CR-85R (03-04)
37 Honda CR-125R "Elsinore" (79)
37 Honda CR-125R "Elsinore" (80)
37 Honda CR-250R "Elsinore" (78-80)
37 Honda NX-250 (88-90)
37 Honda XR-250R (81-82)
37 Honda CMX-450C (86-87)
37 Honda CX-500TC (82)
37 Honda FT-500 "Ascot" (82-83)
37 Honda VF-500C "Magna" (84-85)
37 Honda VT-500C "Shadow" (83-84)
37 Honda VT-500C "Shadow" (85-86)
37 Honda XL-500R (82)
37 Honda CB-550SC (83)
37 Honda CBR-600F "Hurricane" (87-90)
37 Honda CB-650SC "Nighthawk 650" (82)
37 Honda CX-650T "Turbo" (83)
37 Honda VF-700C "Magna" (84)
37 Honda VFR-700F "Interceptor" (86)
37 Honda CB-750F (81-82)
37 Honda VF-750C "V45 Magna" (82-83)
37 Honda VF-750S "Sabre" (82-83)
37 Honda VFR-750F "Interceptor 750" (86)
37 Honda CB-900C "Custom" (80-82)
37 Honda GL-1000/K "Goldwing" (75-79)
37 Kawasaki EX-500D1-D11 "Ninja 500R" (94-04)
37 Kawasaki ZL-600A1/A2 (86-87)
37 Kawasaki ZX-600A1-A3 "Ninja" (85-87)
37 Kawasaki ZX-750A1-A3 "GPz" (83-85)
37 Kawasaki ZX-750E1/E2 "Turbo" (84-85)
37 Kawasaki ZX-1100A1 "GPz" (83)
37 Kawasaki ZX-1100A2 "GPz" (84)
37 Suzuki RM-85 K2-K4 (02-04)
37 Suzuki XN-85 D "Turbo" (83)
37 Suzuki GS-500 EK/EL/EM/EN/EP/ER/ES/ET (89-96)
37 Suzuki GS-500 EV/EW/EX/EY (97-00)
37 Suzuki GS-550 LD/LF (83, 85)
37 Suzuki GS-550 ED/ESD/ES3/ ESE/ EF/ESF/ESG (83-86)
37 Suzuki GS-650 MD "Katana" (83)
37 Suzuki GS-700 EF/ESF (85)
37 Suzuki VS-700 GLFG/GLEFG/ GLFH/GLEFH "Intruder" (85-87)
37 Suzuki GS-750 ED/ESD (83)
37 Suzuki GS-750 LN (79)
37 Suzuki GS-750 SD "Katana" (83)
37 Suzuki GS-850 GN/GT/GX/GZ (79-82)
37 Suzuki GS-850 GD (83)
37 Suzuki GS-1000 C/EC/N/EN/ET (78-80)
37 Suzuki GS-1000GT/GLT/GX/GLX (80-81)
37 Suzuki GS-1100 ET/EX/EZ (80-82)
37 Suzuki GS-1100 ED/ESD (83)
37 Suzuki GS-1100 GZ/GLZ (82)
37 Suzuki GS-1100 LT (80)
37 Suzuki GS-1150 ES3/ESE/EF/ESF/EF2/EG/ESG (83-86)
37 Yamaha XJ-650 LK "Seca Turbo" (83)
37 Yamaha XJ-900 RK "Seca" (83)
37 Yamaha XV-920 RH/RJ "Virago" (81-82)
37 Yamaha XJ-1100 J "Maxim" (82)
37 Yamaha XS-1100 E/F/G/H (78-81)
37 Yamaha XS-1100 LG/LH (80-81)
37 Yamaha XS-1100 LG/LH "Midnight Special" (80-81)
37 Yamaha XS-1100 SF (79)
Quote from: ivany on December 15, 2010, 10:54:07 AM
The ninja 650 is fully faired, but sits very upright. It has a naked option in the ER-6N.
The FZ-6 is as upright, if not more-so, than the GS500E. Don't be fooled by the plastics in the front, that's just to trick Americans into buying them ;) The bikes are still quite upright.
I can't speak to the FZ-6 but I've sat on the Ninja 650 and the ER-6N. Both nice bikes but both pull you at least as far forward and have the pegs as high and back as the GS500E. They also weigh nearly 100lb more.
@madjak30
The Gladius is pretty much the same as all the others I've mentioned .. a mild sportbike riding position.
I know I wouldn't be comfortable with either the Versys or the Wee-strom. I've ridden both. I took a pretty long test ride on the Wee-strom. I could get a new 2009 for about $400 less than I paid for my '09 DRZ400SM. But the 650 V-strom is too heavy and too tall for me. So I plan to make my '94 GS500E into a mini V-strom.
...ken...
Seems like someone in the UK has already customized one: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330726&page=33
I kinda like that...maybe that should be the winter project instead of worrying about an "upgrade"...but wouldn't it be easier and cheaper in the long run to just get a used KLR, or a DR650? Still kinda cool though...kinda like this one I posted a while ago...
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_XzHeOPXAEVE/TQly6-h1Z9I/AAAAAAAAAdA/1qSmaAN-nQk/s800/IMAGE_193%5B1%5D.jpg)
I think I need atleast two, maybe even three bikes...one street, one offroad and if the buget would allow it, one for touring...
Later.
Quote from: scratch on December 15, 2010, 02:46:49 PM
Seems like someone in the UK has already customized one: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330726&page=33
That's an excellent thread. Thanks for the link.
...ken...
Quote from: madjak30 on December 15, 2010, 07:02:38 PM
I kinda like that...maybe that should be the winter project instead of worrying about an "upgrade"...but wouldn't it be easier and cheaper in the long run to just get a used KLR, or a DR650?
Easier and cheaper in the short run, not just the long run. When I decided a couple of years ago to get back into motorcycling after more than 16 years away from it, the KLR650 was the very first bike I looked at. And I looked at it again at least half a dozen times as I researched the possibilities over the next year and a half before I finally bought a bike. The KLR is just too tall and heavy. The big DR is a boat anchor .. almost nothing to recommend it, in my opinion, of course. But I wanted the KLR really bad ... or, at least, a KLR-type bike that would fit. Long story short, I ended up with a DRZ400SM. The supermotard version with its 17" wheels and slightly shorter suspension travel meant it fit me ... just barely, but close enough.
What I discovered since I bought the DRZ in June is that I'm doing way more highway riding than I expected. And enjoying it far more than I expected. Most of my riding this summer has involved a combination of lots of highway and fast gravel roads with a bit of cowtrailing. I don't need a dirt bike for that. Just a decent "standard" bike with dual-sport tires, like Distanzias or Tourances, and wider, higher bars. Not much more than that.
So, a mildly dual-sported GS500E seems like the perfect solution. And keep the DRZ for most serious offroad days, especially the trips a friend and I take to the Rockies for a few days of logging roads and ATV trails a couple times a season.
QuoteI think I need atleast two, maybe even three bikes...one street, one offroad and if the buget would allow it, one for touring...
Starting in 1973 until I sold my last bike in '94, I had at least two bikes - one street bike and one dirt bike. It's the only way. I figured this time I could get away with only one. I shoulda known better...
...ken...
I think you will like the GS500...only a 31" seat height and decent enough power...I get 60mpg with it (4.9L/100kms if you are metric)...I don't have to go to reserve until over 300kms, and since you are lighter than me (looks like about 160lbs ish in the pic you posted) it should be even better...I think it is one of the easiest bike to ride and it still puts a silly grin on my face (that's why I am having such a hard time deciding on a new bike...replacing something this good isn't easy :thumb:)
Later.
Hi madjak,
Yes, I'm another Canuck so I capiche L/100km. I have to admit that even though I'm mildly metrified, that dumbass measurement for fuel consumption has never made any sense to me. :cookoo:
I'm really looking forward to the GS. Unlike a lot of younger folks, I have not been weaned on liter bikes. The biggest bike I ever owned was a GT750. It was fully dressed. My wife and I loaded it up and did many thousands of miles on it. I never once felt the need for more power. After that one, the rest of my street riding was done on two 1981 GPz550s and a 1982 GPz550. I rode them mostly solo, as I will the GS. I never felt like the GPz's were underpowered. Other than straight line acceleration, I was always able to stay with, or mostly ahead of, the guys with the bigger bikes. It was always a point of pride to leave the loudest mouths the farthest behind. :2guns:
I really love the modern 650 twins, V and parallel. But none of the bikes they are in make any sense for me. They don't fit and they're heavier than I want. Many of the naked "standard-ish" bikes that have been suggested earlier in the thread are mighty appealing. If I was in the market for a purely street bike I wouldn't hesitate to flip a coin between the ER-6n and the Gladius. The Ninja would get serious consideration, too. As would the GS500F. :thumb:
...ken...
Quote from: Ken in Regina on December 15, 2010, 07:58:44 PM
Easier and cheaper in the short run, not just the long run. When I decided a couple of years ago to get back into motorcycling after more than 16 years away from it, the KLR650 was the very first bike I looked at. And I looked at it again at least half a dozen times as I researched the possibilities over the next year and a half before I finally bought a bike. The KLR is just too tall and heavy. The big DR is a boat anchor .. almost nothing to recommend it, in my opinion, of course. But I wanted the KLR really bad ... or, at least, a KLR-type bike that would fit. Long story short, I ended up with a DRZ400SM. The supermotard version with its 17" wheels and slightly shorter suspension travel meant it fit me ... just barely, but close enough.
What I discovered since I bought the DRZ in June is that I'm doing way more highway riding than I expected. And enjoying it far more than I expected. Most of my riding this summer has involved a combination of lots of highway and fast gravel roads with a bit of cowtrailing. I don't need a dirt bike for that. Just a decent "standard" bike with dual-sport tires, like Distanzias or Tourances, and wider, higher bars. Not much more than that.
I also have a DRZ400sm and had a GS500. I rode my GS on hilly dirt roads with deep gravel, ruts - doable, but not enjoyable.
Given what you wanted, I'm surprised that you ruled out the KLR650 and the DR650, both of which should be a better freeway cruiser than the DRZ.
KLR650 being tall and heavy - well, at 400 lbs + it's heavy for a dualsport, but no heavier than a GS500. It's about, what, an inch taller than a DRZ400sm, and I've seen the DRZ modified so a 5'3" rider comfortably flat foot it. Among the Japanese 650 thumpers, everybody says this is the most road-oriented dualsport.
DR650 being a boat anchor and nothing to recommend for it - This is a big surprise to me. DRZ is about 315 lbs wet, the DR is only about 30 lbs heavier at around 345 lbs wet - still way lighter than a GS500. Everything I've read, from every DR650 owner, seems to indicate this is the best compromise between road/off-road. They all LOVE this bike. Peter Eagan from CycleWorld recently wrote how much he loved the DR.
Ken's a little short of leg for those bikes...
You could also check a Honda Shadow RS...it is modelled after the original Sportster...and is a standard riding postion that you are looking for...but it weighs 70lbs more than a GS and has half the fuel capacity...
I think the GS500 naked is the bike you want unless you look at an enduro bike (trailie) like the Yamaha XT250...150lbs less similar seat height, still half the fuel, but it is more efficient...??
If it is going to be more on road than off, stick with the GS500...
Later.
Hi Gary,
I spent over a year and a half researching my return to motorcycling; specifically which bike would best suit my specific requirements. Put that against a background of thirty years of every kind of non-competitive riding and a variety of bikes, a few years of teaching motorcycle safety and a very specific set of requirements to fit my exact needs .. needs that include my physical size and condition and some very specific kinds of riding I wanted to be able to do.
I knew that highway riding would be involved, possibly a significant amount. So any bike I bought would need to be not just streetable but decent at highway speeds for at least an hour without a break. (@madjak, that's why a sweet 250 like the Kawasaki Super Sherpa got ruled out, even though I would love one.). Gravel/dirt roads and casual offroading are my greatest joy. So, even though that comprises a much smaller portion of my riding, it is still the most important to me.
That, along with the size and weight, is why I ruled out the adventure tourers like the BMW 650GS and 650 Vstrom. I did not reject them lightly. A friend with an F650GS was kind enough to allow me to use it for a 300km loop back in the spring with two purposes in mind. First was to determine if my desire to return to riding after more than 16 years away was just a pipedream. Second was to see if that style bike was what I was looking for. Shortly after that, a dealer who I've known for many years allowed me a nice long test ride on a Wee-Strom. Those two rides convinced me that that class of bike was not what I was looking for.
As I mentioned in the post you quoted, the KLR650 was just too tall and heavy. I was also aware of the ability to add lowering links and then diddle with the front suspension and .... so on. Not interested. Then I discovered that the DRZ400 has about the same horsepower and nearly 100lb lighter. I got the hots for the DRZ400S until I sat on one. It was just as tall as the KLR and required the same messing about just to get both feet to at least tiptoe. Then I found a brand new 2009 DRZ400SM that my local dealer had collecting dust in a back room. With its 17" wheels and slightly shorter suspension I was able to touch both feet, tiptoe, bone stock. I added the optional gel seat and had the rear preload set to full soft and got a bike I can handle in the sort of mild offroading I occasionally do. It worked as well as I had hoped for a week's riding in the Rockies on logging roads and ATV trails.
I guess I was a little strong about the DR650. I don't mean to offend anyone who finds it suits their needs. It does not suit mine; not in any way at all. It's nearly as heavy as the KLR and costs just as much or more but it has none of the streetable amenities. It has no more horsepower than the DRZ, a poorer suspension, is heavier and more expensive.
If I had done the amount of highway riding I had anticipated, the DRZ would be perfect. But I've done way more than I expected and I'm enjoying it more than I expected. So I look forward to doing even more next year. I'm keeping the DRZ anyway for my few trips to the Rockies and also for those days where local dirt roads and some offroading are the main part of the agenda.
But now I want to start with something that's better on the street, fits me well and will be relatively easy to modify a little bit for gravel and dirt roads and easy cowtrailing. It will be used for those many days where the agenda is either all or mainly highway riding.
The choice of a starting point was a twin in the 500 to 650 range. My many years of solo street riding have shown me that I don't need -- or want -- anything with a lot more power than a well-tuned 500. They have the advantage of being generally smaller and lighter. Price was another factor. Buying a second bike in one year was unplanned. I have not remained married for nearly 40 years without being aware of my wife's reaction if I had started talking about buying a second new bike this soon. As luck would have it, the pre-2003 GS500E specs out perfectly for what I want to do. Even more luck, my local dealer turned me onto a customer who hasn't ridden his 1994 single-owner GS500E for a couple of years and was lamenting that he wanted a new snowmobile but couldn't really justify it without selling his bike.
We made a deal. It was a price that barely registered on my wife's annoyance meter.
I expect to come back from my first ride of the spring on my GS500E with a grin from ear to ear. I'm also looking forward to doing the wrenching on it this winter and dreaming about the riding in the spring.
...ken...
Hi Ken, I see that you know what you need. :thumb:
To me the KLR and DR represent the dream of doing cross-state dual-sport rides. It's not realistic for me for now, but they fire up my imaginations. The DRZ400sm is a sexy bike (to a lot of younger riders around here), but I always imagine the KLR/DR to be more of a long distance workhorse. You're right about the GS easily beats the DRZ for freeway cruising. The DRZ is great everywhere except it sucks on the freeway.
Below are some photos of the little bit of dirt road I was able to find on the GS; any street bike can do this. I wouldn't take the GS to an OHV park, though. ;)
(http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae188/deg856/IMG_6471.jpg)
(http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae188/deg856/IMG_6487.jpg)
(http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae188/deg856/IMG_6489.jpg)
(http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae188/deg856/IMG_6494.jpg)
Nail on the head, Gary. :thumb: That's exactly the sort of road that will make up the majority of my off-pavement riding with the GS. As you say, any street bike can handle that. But put a couple of inches of fresh gravel on top of that and you need a little different tire and you need a riding position that is a little more upright than your typical sportbike (leaning too forward) or cruiser (too laid back) and a little wider handlebar for a bit of leverage at slow speeds.
We've even encountered a couple of women on Suzuki 400 Burgmans out on the gravel roads around here. They were having a great time and wondered why they mostly only saw dirt bikes or no bikes at all. Fortunately for them, nobody had told them that you aren't supposed to take street bikes off the pavement.
If you can imagine an ATV trail or single-track that's about the same surface composition as that road but skinny and the occasional fence post or tree branch to hop over, that's the extreme that the GS will see. My 650GS buddy has no knees left so he can't stand on the bike anymore ... too many years of downhill skiing and dirt-biking. Anywhere he will take his GS, I'll take my GS. Nice and gentle. My days of hitting hard trails hard are twenty years behind me. Strangely enough, having had the pleasure of doing almost every kind of riding there is, I don't miss the extreme stuff as much as you might think.
I think part of it may be because I never had to go to an OHV park. I was lucky enough to ride in a lot of places before the idiots got in there and wrecked it for everyone by getting it all closed down. Lest anyone think I was one of those idiots, I can assure you we weren't. All that was asked of anyone riding in the backroads of the Rocky Mountains was to stay to existing roads and trails. That was more than challenging enough for any rider of any skill level. And there were enough of them that you could never ride the same trail twice and it would still take many long lifetimes to run out of new places to explore.
But that's not good enough for some. If you tell them to stay out of somewhere, that's immediately where they go. We knew the writing was on the wall when we started seeing riders coming into our favorite riding areas from a large city a couple hundred miles away with chainsaws strapped on the back of their bikes and ATVs. The reason they had come that far to ride was because they had already got everything nearer closed down. And it was clear from the way they were equipped, they intended to create their own trails rather than staying on the existing ones. It took them about two years to get the majority of the area closed down. Now the designated ATV and snowmobile areas are small, overcrowded and overused.
I hope that one day you can get yourself a KLR650 and head off into the backroads. Almost everywhere, there is so much of interest to see that can't be seen from the pavement. Not just pretty countryside but small towns, abandoned farms and towns, old cemeteries ... things that have many stories to tell. You can have some fun researching them when the snow is on the ground or you can just make up the stories that might have been behind them. But you will also find a lot of life left out there in the countryside, too. And that's just as interesting.
In the meantime, if you can't afford a KLR, you can just put on some Avon Distanzias or Metzeler Tourances and get a handelbar that's a little wider and a bit more rise and go do it. If you've already had your GS on roads like in your pictures, clearly you have the interest and have, or are developing, the necessary skills. Let the dream take hold!!
Cheers. :cheers:
...ken...
as painful as is to say, u need a bmw. it will almost replace the drz, and definitely replace the gs. or, keep the drz and get the beemer. ive ridden the 650, and own a drz, replacing my gs. do it. enjoy :-)
Hi ohgood,
I guess you didn't read my previous messages where I said that I've tried the BMW F650GS (300km trip) and it's way too tall and heavy for me. I'm glad you like it. I'm keeping my DRZ and keeping my GS500E.
...ken...
Quote from: Ken in Regina on December 20, 2010, 02:02:47 PM
Hi ohgood,
I guess you didn't read my previous messages where I said that I've tried the BMW F650GS (300km trip) and it's way too tall and heavy for me. I'm glad you like it. I'm keeping my DRZ and keeping my GS500E.
...ken...
woops, sorry about that. on the phone i usually just read the OP's idea, then run with it. :)
since you're keeping both, you could almost manage to make the drz more street friendly and the gs more dirt friendly i guess. more agressive tars on the gs and more dual-sportish on the drz. i wonder how odd you feel switching over from one to the other ? do your feet find 'home' or does it take a few minutes before they remember ?
i really loved my gs in the tights, traffic, twisties, slow stuff. the riding position and tallness of the drz suits me much better. the power of the drz and big squishy suspension is where my heart is now. and dirt. lots of dirt. :)
Quote from: ohgood on December 20, 2010, 02:55:22 PMwoops, sorry about that. on the phone i usually just read the OP's idea, then run with it. :)
You're forgiven.
Quotesince you're keeping both, you could almost manage to make the drz more street friendly and the gs more dirt friendly i guess. more agressive tars on the gs and more dual-sportish on the drz.
That's exactly the plan. Half done already ... the DRZ is nice and street-friendly now. Trials tires are great for both dirt and street. Squishy grips for longer rides and fewer vibes. Sweet little Cee Baileys windshield keeps the wind off. 3.9gal tank for those longer rides. A friend and I built a luggage rack and I put a JC Whitney topcase on it. Kaoko cruise control for the highway running. Here's a picture.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/kganshirt/Other%20Projects/2009%20DRZ400SM/p_00102.jpg)
Mine's the one on the right. ;)
Most of the rest of this thread has been a discussion about the sorts of things to make the GS dirtier .. dual sport tires, wider bars, reposition the footpegs, probably firm up the suspension a bit. There are some posts in the thread with some lovely examples of dual-sported GS's.
Quotei wonder how odd you feel switching over from one to the other ? do your feet find 'home' or does it take a few minutes before they remember ?
It has been more than 16 years since I sold my last bike. Before that I rode for thirty years and taught motorcycle safety courses for nearly ten. Between my 16 or so previous bikes and all the different bikes we used for teaching, my feet and hands take about three seconds on a different bike to find everything and about a block to get right comfortable.
What was most surprising to me was how quickly most of the basic skills came back when I started riding again this year after so many years without throwing a leg over a bike. I still have a ways to go before my confidence for the more difficult manouvres is completely restored but it's coming nicely.
Quotei really loved my gs in the tights, traffic, twisties, slow stuff. the riding position and tallness of the drz suits me much better. the power of the drz and big squishy suspension is where my heart is now. and dirt. lots of dirt. :)
Yes, lots of dirt. But that cushy suspension on the Dizzer is also great on the street, especially the sort of potholed pavement that passes for streets around here. And yes, if you are comfortable spinning that 400 single it really responds. It's very similar to the GS in nature .. starts to make useful power at 6,000rpm and runs out of breath at 8,500 so there's no use to run it to the rev limiter at 10,000.
Except for my first bike, a 650 Triumph twin, all the rest of my bikes have been Japanese so I learned early on to get comfortable keeping the engine spinning. I feel a little sorry for folks who aren't comfortable taking bikes like the GS and DRZ above 5-6,000rpm. They'll never experience the real performance their bikes are designed for.
...ken...
Been a while since I posted here - but couldn't help it :)
I just recently got a BMW F650GS which I've been commuting in the colder weather (FI + heated grips make life way easier in the winter...). OP is right in that they are very different bikes. On paper the BMW only has some 40 or 50 lbs on my faired (2009) GS500, but the different riding positions and differences in handling are pretty significant. Personally, I am more comfortable with the upright position on the BMW over the GS500 (though I have been missing how simple and flickable the little suzuki is ;) ). Don't have any pictures, but I've taken the Suzuki on the same types of fire roads that the BMW GS has seen. Only thing that made me nervous were all the plastics - you clearly don't have that problem with the E model. Sounds like you already have this figured out though - Enough talking about it's capability - slap some Tourances on there and go ride it! Figure out firming up the front shocks down the road (Katana shocks? Progressive springs? I'm a suspension tard....).
Of course... this all assumes they make a Tourance in 17" ?
A little stiffer spring and thicker oil in the forks should be good...and just dial in the pre-load for the rear...but the OP may not even need that...the suspension on the GS only has, what...4.5" travel...not the best for rough trails, but should be just fine for what he is planning...packed dirt trails and groomed gravel...
Later.
Quote from: yurtinus on December 25, 2010, 11:55:38 PM
Been a while since I posted here - but couldn't help it :)
Glad you did. :thumb:
Quote... Sounds like you already have this figured out though - Enough talking about it's capability - slap some Tourances on there and go ride it!
Well, you see, there's this problem in these parts. We refer to it as "winter". Some of us .. the bikers and golfers in particular (I'm both) .. usually use the word more like a cuss word than the name of a season. So I still have months to think about it and search the online catalogues and other information sources. I agree with you totally that the best way to start is to simply pop some decent tires on her and see what else, and how much of it, is really necessary. A guy can save a lot of money and work that way.
The fork seals are weeping and need changing anyway, so I might as well change the springs. I'm watching another thread to see if anyone has a compelling reason to swap the stock shock for something else. There seems to be some discussion about whether the R6 shock or Katana 600 shock are better replacements. But I haven't found anything describing what is significantly "better" than the stock shock about either of them.
@madjak,
4.5" rear suspension travel? That's great! If I had had even close to that on my first three dirt bikes I would have thought I'd died and gone to heaven. I think my DRZ400 has like two feet of travel on both ends. At least that's how it feels when I try to reach the ground with my foot as the darn thing is slowly toppling sideways on a bit of slow technical stuff. :sad: So much travel, anyway, that I can't imagine what someone my age would ever do with it all. Last time I tried to jump a house with a dirt bike was at least twenty years ago. :cookoo:
QuoteOf course... this all assumes they make a Tourance in 17" ?
They do. The problem is finding anyone who stocks the size that will work on the front.
...ken...
This thread is getting me really anxious for spring to come so I can try out my friends DRZ. I live in the city so I don't even know where these dirt roads/trails are that people ride, but I'm sure I could find them eventually, and would definitely enjoy a nice ride away from any traffic.
As far as that rear suspension, I think Buddha was the one who always swore the katana shock was the best option for the rear, maybe he can get you a little more info on why he feels that way. I think I've heard that with the differences in the linkage the R6 isn't as stiff as it's supposed to be. Even if the stock katana shock isn't as nice, it was still off of a similar suzuki and just does a better job of swapping in.
I'm surprised you do much highway on the drz. What kind of speeds do you usually cruise at? I feel like even my xb sucks on the highway for any more than one exit to another. 60mph is fine, but 70 starts to get too buzzy for my tastes(although it's not nearly as noticable with the stock exhaust). If they were better on the highway for a few hours I would consider trading in my xb for a DRZ, but I do hop on the highway on occasion for 30 minutes or so, and like the option to be able to ride it longer if I need, so I'll have to wait until I have something geared a lot taller before I can get one.
dprider02 on youtube has recently picked up a dual sport as an addition to his table.
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om7IRJxr2nE
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLc1IYBCf9A
WARNING: If films like Blair Witch or Cloverfield make you feel funny, his videos will too.
He's a nice fellow and will answer any question you might have about how He finds stuff. I know he goes away, but going away still leaves you with needing to find something once you're away.
Miichael
Hi tt_four,
I think you will be surprised at how good the DRZ is on the road. But if you want even more enjoyment you really do need to get out of town onto the backroads and see if you can also find an ATV trail to poke around on.
I ride my DRZ a lot on the highway because if I didn't I would be doing almost all my riding alone ... not something I'm much interested in.
One of my riding buddies has a Harley Road King. He turns around and goes the other way if he sees dust on the pavement. :icon_rolleyes: My other most frequent riding pal lives in another city 50 miles down the highway from me. He has a BMW F650GS so he loves getting off the pavement as much as I do. But it's a fair ride just for us to meet somewhere. Also, some of the guys we ride with are strictly street riders.
To put it into perspective, I bought a DRZ400SM. The SM model is the SuperMoto, also known as a "hooligan" bike. It comes with 17" supersport tires on it and is set up for outrageous kinds of street riding. So it looks like a dirt bike and works like a dirt bike but it is also a very competent street bike. Arguably better than many street bikes if you want to have a ton of fun without a ton of weight or spending a ton of money.
The stock DRZ400SM final drive has 15t countershaft sprocket and 41t rear sprocket. That puts 70mph at just over 6500rpm. Given the powerband of the engine, that's about perfect. It's like the GS500 .. doesn't start to make serious power until it's spinning at around 6000 and peaks at around 8500. So if you're cruising on the highway at 6500rpm, you just roll the throttle smoothly and feel that puppy pull like a freight train! No issues if you want to pass because you're right at the start of the meaty part of the powerband.
Before I went out west for a week offroading in the Rockies in October I put on a set of trials tires and dropped a tooth on the countershaft (to 14t) to handle the slow speed stuff easier without so much clutch slipping. I figured I would put the 15t back on when I got back because of all the highway riding I do around here. I quickly discovered that I don't mind the lower gearing at all. I usually cruise around 100-110kph. That puts the engine at 6000-6800rpm. I love how responsive it is when it's running up there. It's a little bit buzzy but it seems like once you're up to 5000rpm it doesn't really change much after that. I've got a Kaoko cruise control so that also helps.
A word of caution: if you aren't comfortable spinning an engine up in its powerband, you'll never discover what a DRZ400 is capable of on the road ... or a GS500 either.
...ken...
Thanks for the video links, mister. +1 :thumb:
That's the kind of riding I live for. The main difference is that I love to get out to the Rockies so those same roads also have elevation changes ... lots more up and down.
...ken...
Quote from: Ken in Regina on December 27, 2010, 01:28:55 PM
Hi tt_four,
I think you will be surprised at how good the DRZ is on the road. But if you want even more enjoyment you really do need to get out of town onto the backroads and see if you can also find an ATV trail to poke around on.
I have no doubts about how good it would be on the road. It's the same stuff everyone on this site talks about with the GS making you a good rider because of light handling and 30-40hp forcing you to actually ride the turn instead of just accelerating out of it. Only difference is you get a a bike that's 100lbs less and actually has nice suspension/parts. It would spend most of it's time on back roads and goofing off around the city. There aren't many dirt roads around me, but I'd definitely go out of my way to find a few for an occasional road. They would probably be skinnier trails through the woods, definitely don't think there are all that many wide open spaces with smooth dirt roads like in those videos. When I had my first bike, an 83 xt550, I would go ride around some housing developments since I lived near some new suburbs. There were always plenty of places with dirt/hills/things to goof around on. I dropped that bike a million times, but it'd be fun to see what I could do now that I've got a little more experience.
I love my xb, it's perfect for around town and on back roads, but like I said the occasional run down the highway kinda sucks, and I wish it had a little bit more power. The 2nd I could fix by trading up to an xb12, but it's still geared the same. I think I'll eventually pick up an I4 to make into a streetfighter, and then eventually trade in my xb on a supermoto. May end up with a drz, but I'd really love to trade for something like a street legal RMZ450. Those things are 220lbs dry and make 55hp, so that would definitely be a riot :cookoo:
I tested the GS on different surfaces now, even took it into the sand dunes in the Sahara. Here's a video on a stony track. To be honest, I can't imagine that this bike would ever become good on rough roads for a few reasons: short suspension travels, rim size on the front, front fork angle, handlebar angle and sitting position, clearing distance under the engine, lack of bashplates, at every drop you risk cracking the engine case, etc. It's really not good, and it's a waste of time even to put dual sport tyres on it. But for what it is, it's still a great bike. I thought I would share my thoughts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE3gsDMWuzY
Thank you for sharing that video and your thoughts, randomway.
The road in that video is much rougher than 99% of the gravel/dirt roads I will be riding with the GS. For the very rare times I'll be able to find a road like that, I don't mind slowing down to accomodate the limitations of the bike.
I agree with you that the GS will not ever become "good" on really rough roads without a very large amount of work and money. But I'm not trying for "good" on that sort of road. I simply want to be able to occasionally drive down one without it being dangerous. As your video shows, it's not even scarey to ride such a road on a GS, even one that is set up more as a sportbike, as long as you ride within the bike's limits. You can hear the suspension clanking and banging but otherwise there was no drama at the speed you were riding. And the suspension limitations were probably the only thing keeping you from going faster. I will be happy with the performance I see in the video.
I see that the bike in the video has clipons. That provides very little slow speed steering leverage and a very bad riding position for rougher rides. The '94 GS500E I have purchased has conventional bars so there is a lot more steering leverage and the riding position is much more upright than with the clipons. If necessary, I will replace the bars with dirt bike bars to get more length and rise.
I have the advantage that I have a DRZ400 for any time I plan to do lots of riding on roads like the video or ATV trails and technical single-track. I got the GS for those days/trips where I know I'll be mostly on pavement but still want the ability to go explore an interesting unpaved backroad if the opportunity happens.
My immediate plans for the winter are to replace the weepy fork seals and probably replace the fork springs with progressive springs while I'm at it and put on a set of barely used dual sport tires (Kenda K761) that I took off my DRZ. That's all I'll do this winter. I'll ride it for at least a couple of weeks in the spring to see if I need to do anything else to it for the type of riding I expect to do with it.
...ken...
GS motor fits in an EX500 Kwack apparently,therefore must fit in a KLE500? (KLE,EX,GPZ same motor)
If you want GS power off road find a KLE with dead motor.(Not very common in the UK) Works in theory,sort of.
I have tested my gs in offroad a few times to. With little offroad riding experience it can go almost everywhere..
Haw been in sand dunes, in a rough grass fields, few times in rocky roads like this, or even in more bad condition roads: (http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6871/keliasgr5.jpg)
In rocky roads like this my top speed is 90-120kph with normal street tires :cookoo: I know that is extremely dangerous, but gs handled it very well.
Gs can be very universal bike, but i think he is created for streets and have to ride in streets, not in roads like this. For offroad use are bikes like Drz or XR..
The GS will work just fine on roads like that, it's deep gravel or potholes that it doesn't do well...not enought suspension...anything more than that and you should get different tires...I've done 80kph on roads like that and just slowed for corners...it just feels slightly loose, nothing scary...
Later.
Yeah, I am still happy with the bike, and yes, it can climb through surprisingly difficult places. It doesn't do sand dunes, at least mine with all the bagge doesn't. It can struggle through deep sand as well, but I don't know how long before the engine would melt.
In short, yes, it will have no problem on gravel roads, look at mine. I did hundreds of kilometres with mine on unpaved and really bad roads in Europe and here in Morocco and not a puncture, not a broken suspension or anything. Knock wood. I'm just hoping it will hold up for another 10k miles through Africa.
It's getting a little closer to spring so it's time for me to get more serious about prepping the GS for riding. I've decided to take the minimalist approach that has been suggested, e.g. just put some decent dual-sport tires on and ride it for a bit before deciding if I need to do any additional mods for my purposes.
And already I've discovered a problem ... front fender clearance. There isn't any. With the nearly worn to the cord stock tires that are on it, if I do a finger check between the widest part of the tire and the inside of the fender just behind the forks, there's less than 1/4" clearance on one side and slight more than 1/4" on the other side.
It's nearly impossible to find a dual sport tire that's close enough to the stock tire size to fit the front fender. At first I figured I could do the tire test for free. I have a set of Kenda K761's that I took off my DRZ after only 2500km (replaced them with IRC GP-1 trials tires). The Kendas are barely broken in. I thought I would just fit them up and see if that would be good enough.
After discovering how little clearance there is even with a worn stock front tire, I got out the calipers and measured both the stock tire (110/70) and the Kenda front tire (120/90) at the widest point. The Kenda is 5/8" wider without air in it. Ain't gonna fit inside that front fender, no way, no how. Damn!!
The problem gets worse because most of the 17" dual sport tires are no smaller than the Kenda (120/90). Pirelli has a 110/80. I don't know if that will work and I hate to put out that kind of money without being sure. I can't find anyone online who stocks that size so I'll have to special order it. That means no chance for a discount. And with an odd size like that, probably no chance to return it if it doesn't fit.
For what it's worth, for those who are following this, after a lot of looking I'm down to Pirelli MT60 or Heidenau K60 tires. I gave some thought to the Metzeler Tourance, Avon Distanzia and Michelin Anakee2. My friend with the BMW F650GS has been happy with his Tourances and also a set of Distanzias he had. But it turns out that after following me around on a few cowtrails with my DRZ400 he has decided he enjoys it enough that he wants something just a bit more aggressive. So he's bought himself a set of the Heidenau K60's. I was over at his place recently and got a look at them and they look perfect. But the smallest 17" they have is 120/90.
So now it looks like a front fender mod is called for. There are a couple of options in pictures earlier in this thread. One is a high fender and leaving the stock fender brace in place. The other is a low generic plastic fender bolted onto a higher fender brace.
If anyone knows any details about either of these options, or any other way to modify or replace the fender to get some more clearance I would be happy to hear about them.
For instance, what high fender might fit the front and how is it bodged onto the bottom triple clamp? And does the back end of it have to be bobbed (shortened) to avoid melting it on the pipes?
Or for a generic plastic fender mounted low, what fork brace could be used to get good bracing and still provide clearance?
Any help would be immensely appreciated. I didn't think it was going to get this complicated this quickly. :confused:
Also suggestions for replacement fork springs would be welcome. I have to get the fork seals replaced anyway, so I might as well replace the springs at the same time.
...ken...
Ken I bought universal plastic fenders from www.denniskirk.com to put on a different bike. Luckily, I was able to cut apart the stock fender to use the brace out of it. The back section of my lower triple clamp has 2 bolts that hold the brackets for the brake hose (and maybe the speedo cable?). I used those 2 bolts for the rear section of the fender. I also lowered the headlight and tucked it closer to the forks, so the drain hole of the bucket will be the front bolt for the fender. Just haven't gotten that far yet.......
Quote from: Ken in Regina on December 07, 2010, 12:07:05 PM
+1 DoD#i. That's what I'm after.
There's even an upside to "the ball-bearing effect of loose gravel ". It's way easier to hang the back end out on gravel than on pavement. Even at my advanced age that's still a hoot! :woohoo:
As far as weight, compare the specs of a naked GS500, any year, to, say, a BMW f650gs or a 650 V-strom or .... you get the idea. Yes, my GS500E is about 100lb more than my DRZ. But it's also about 100lb lighter than my buddy's BMW 650GS. Right in the sweet spot for something that's nice and comfy for mainly pavement riding with an occasional toot down a gravel road or an easy cowtrail.
@tt_four -- Instead of getting rid of the GS, just put some Metzeler Tourances (http://takapiha.org/wp-content/inline_images/2008/07/tourance-206x300.jpg) or Avon Distanzias (http://www.bits4motorbikes.co.uk/Tyres/Avon/avon_distanzia.jpg) on it and go learn to ride on gravel. Heck, just take it out for a backroad ride as it sits and see how it works. It's fun!! You'll see some places you wouldn't have, otherwise. It will also give you an idea just how much "dirtier" you really want to get. Also, the tires I just mentioned, and similar, are still pretty good street tires so you really won't lose anything on the street. That's what they run on super motards and other hooligan bikes!!
...ken...
+1 for the distanzias. one of the guys here has a xr650 (i know, compltely different animal) and unless it's slippery owl shaZam! mud, he can ride anywhere on them. riding for 40 years prolly has something to do with it too, but you know ;)
Yeah, Ken! Standard-ISH is all you can get these days. The most standard bike I've seen in recent years is the Honda 900 Hornet. (CB900) It has an in-line four engine, a round headlight, and it's naked. That's all that makes it standard as far as I can tell. It's actually much better because it weighs only 427 pounds yet pumps-out 100HP.
It seemed to me you've been asking for a 1969 BSA A-65 scrambler, but then you said you'd never want your '64 Triumph back. A good A-65 would set you back about six grand these days anyway, so I'm thinking the best thing to do is put more aggressive rubber on your GS and try that out. I hope my zest for riding lasts like it has for you. I rode for a while, then stopped, then started-up again like you. Dang wife and kids were always in the way!
Here is a comparisson of some true standards...retro styling...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYchgDvceyM
I personally prefer the more modern naked bikes, but they just don't sell well here...not like sport bikes or cruisers...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dreoYlnlVQw
Later.
Quote from: Big Rich on March 18, 2011, 10:20:34 PM
Ken I bought universal plastic fenders from www.denniskirk.com to put on a different bike. ...
Thanks for the link, Big Rich. I'll take a look and see what I can find. It's looking like some head scratching and serious bodging will be required to change the fender.
...ken...
@Madjak,
Yes, nobody seems to want a standard bike any more. Kawasaki Canada no longer has the ER6n listed on their web site so it looks like 2010 was the last one. My local dealer has a nice orange one sitting there looking lonesome. He seems willing to deal. The bike fits me perfectly. It's got me thinking seriously.... :confused: :sad:
...ken...
Found a fork brace that may fit with some fork. Scroll all the way down:
http://www.mikesxs.net/products-19.html
Well, I spent an interesting past three or four days. I came s-o-o-o close to buying a new 2010 ER6n. The dealer was ready to make me a really good deal. I spent another half hour at the dealer's this afternoon checking it over and making a list of the things I would need to add to it to get it where I want it.
When I got home I was puttering around in the shop and decided it was time to pop the battery charger on the battery in the GS to give it it's monthly top-up. As I was doing that I started to take a closer look at it. ... And discovered that it already has most of the things I needed to do to the ER6n to put it on the road. .... Windshield? Yep, got it. Handguards? GS has the big Slipstreamer Plexi2 so no handguards needed. Longer handlebars (the ones on the ER6n are way too short)? The GS bars are the same length as the Versys so they're perfect. GS seat's better padded and shaped. GS has four bungee hooks on the rear frame versus only two on the ER6n (how dumb is that???). And so on....
Wooops, what the hell was I thinking?? :sad: All I absolutely need on the GS to get her going is new fork seals, new fork springs and new tires (would have had to put new tires on the ER6n, too, because I don't want street tires on it).
Let me see ... new bike and all the farkles is going to be pushing $9,000 by the time I roll it off the showroom floor. GS will cost me maybe $500 for new rubber, fork parts and labor. Even if I decide to totally replace the front and rear suspension at some point, I'll still have a heckuva lot of change left from $9,000!! Where was my head at??? :cookoo: :dunno_black: :cookoo:
So it's back to the original plan. Only one problem to solve. But it's a doozy. As mentioned a few posts back, how to fit up a decent dual sport tire to the front. ?? The back is no problem. There are a zillion excellent choices in the correct size for the rear. But almost everything that will fit the front won't fit inside that stupid front fender. .... :confused: :dunno_black:
But then there's a Eureka!! moment. The answer is staring me in the face. Literally. I already have the answer parked in the shed. It's on the front of my DRZ400SM. A 3.50-17 IRC GP-1. It's the perfect thing!! I want a little narrower tire on the front anyway because it just works better off the pavement. And I'm really happy with that GP-1 on the DRZ. When I put it on I was expecting better performance off the pavement and I got it. But what really surprised me was just how much better it was on the street than the Kenda K761 it replaced. The GP-1 doesn't follow all the pavement irregularities like the Kenda. It seemed like the Kenda was always hunting whether on pavement or gravel roads. The worse the paved surface the worse the hunting on the Kenda.
The GP-1 doesn't do that. It's straight up and stable at everything up to 80mph (haven't gone any faster on the DRZ). And it's more responsive in the paved twisties. Turns in a little quicker and more positively.
What's not to like about it??!!
So, the current plan is to put the Kenda K761 on the back (free except it's a tube type so a few bucks for a tube) and get an IRC GP-1 3.50-17 and tube for the front.
So that just leaves the forks. Still waiting to hear recommendations on fork springs. Is there anything to choose between Racetech and Sonic other than the price?? (Sorry, don't mean to shout. Just wanted to be sure the most important question doesn't lost in all the noise above it.)
...ken...
sorry no help, i just wanted to say i am subscribing to this thread! the way you write is awesome, and i love your idea.
Mikey
So a Metzeler ME33 Lazer front tire is out of the question...?
Quote from: scratch on March 22, 2011, 09:33:42 AM
So a Metzeler ME33 Lazer front tire is out of the question...?
Thanks scratch. That's interesting. Too late for the moment. I want something a little more aggressive so I've already ordered the IRC GP-1 for the front just this morning. But if I determine that it's too aggressive I'll definitely keep the Lasertec in mind. That's a nice looking pattern for the front. Sometimes the old stuff is still the best stuff, eh?!! :thumb:
...ken...
Ordered new springs from Sonic yesterday. The .80 are coming. I'll get them put in when I get the fork seals replaced. The dealer has the other fork parts, the front tire and the tubes for both tires on the way. Yeah, I know tubes on a street bike are so passé in 2011 but the tires are tube type so I'm more comfortable going that way. We old phartes don't have a hangup on avoiding tubes, anyway. It's all we knew in the day.
My riding buddy who helped me build the luggage rack for my DRZ was in town on Thursday and we took a look at how to do a rack for the GS. We've got some good ideas so once the snow is off the ground and the other work is done I'll ride it down to his place and we'll put our design skills and the welder to work. Here's the rack we did on the DRZ.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b152/kganshirt/Other%20Projects/2009%20DRZ400SM/IMG_1344.jpg)
...ken...
[Reader's Digest Version]
I sold the GS500E today.
The End.
[/RDV]
[Long & Windy Version]
This post is an admission of defeat, an apology to some people and an expression of joy.
First, I have to admit that I screwed up royally by buying the GS500E. This is not a criticism of the bike. It's an observation of a bad choice on my part. I bought the bike in December after doing considerable research. I was looking for a bike with a very "standard" riding position; a position that we used to get on what we used to call UJMs or Universal Japanese Motorcycles. Many of you are too young to remember what that's about and nobody needs to care. The point is that what is now considered to be a "standard" riding position and what used to be are apparently quite different.
The riding position on the '94 GS500E I bought is not a standard riding position. It is a rather sporty position; surprisingly so. This is not something that you can tell without actually riding a motorcycle. I bought the bike in December in the middle of a typical Canadian winter so there was no opportunity to do a test ride. And just sitting on the bike without a ride doesn't tell you anything really useful unless the position is extreme.
The riding position won't be a problem for anyone who is younger and more limber than this 64 year old. It is a problem for me. My legs are too bent and I'm leaning/reaching too far for this bike to be comfortable on longer trips, which is what I bought it for.
When I was finally able to take the bike out for a ride this spring I discovered the problem before I had gone even a block from my driveway. A 100km ride simply confirmed what I knew at the start: I was going to be hurting by the time I got done. And I was. :sad:
The really sad part of this experience was the $850 bill from the Suzuki shop and the $125 bill for Sonic's custom fork springs. I did all that before taking the longer ride. My fault, not the bike's.
Moral: Never buy a motorcycle without a test ride if there are things, like riding position, that really matter to you.
One positive discovery related to my desire to use this bike on both pavement and gravel roads: it's stable as a rock on gravel. More stable than my DRZ400SM. Even with a nearly bald front tire and tire pressures set for high speed highway riding. I was surprised and impressed.
The Apology:
In discussions in this and other threads, a few folks recommended that I look at bikes like the Kawasaki Ninja 650, Yamaha FZ6R, Suzuki SV650 and similar for a more standard riding position. I not only ignored them; I told them they were wrong and that those bikes have too sporty a riding position to consider.
I was wrong and for that I apologize. :bowdown:
It turns out there are really two classes of sportbikes. One is the true crotch rocket that has you stretched way out over the gas tank and your heels nearly touching your butt. The other is something the motorcycle press often refers to as "Beginner Bikes". I discovered this when I encountered an old acquaintance who has recently returned to riding after an even longer layoff than mine. After a lot of research and some test rides, he bought a Honda CBF600SA. He allowed me to take a ride on it the very day I discovered how wrong the riding position of the GS500E was for me. It was something of a revelation. The bike fit perfectly and the riding position was much closer to what I was looking for. Not perfect but maybe close enough.
That ride on the CBF600 put me back in the hunt. I almost went straight to the Honda dealer and bought one. Would have done so except for the price tag. When I saw that number I realized I was in the ballpark of another bike I had considered buying last year: the BMW F650GS. And that bike is purpose-designed for what I was trying to create from the GS500E. It's a great highway bike but it's also very good off the pavement.
And they make a model that fits short people!! :woohoo:
What Now?
So I sold one GS twin and bought another; the BMW F650GS (also a parallel twin).
http://www.wolfbmw.com/F650GSu.html
Yes, I bought the Lava Orange. It's a love-it-or-hate-it colour, but the F650GS is a love-it-or-hate-it motorcycle.
The important thing for anyone who buys a GS500 because of their physical size is that the model of the F650GS I bought, with the factory lowering and the low seat, is actually lower than the GS500E. The seat height on this model is less than 30". When I sit on it, both feet are flat on the ground and there is a slight flex in my knees.
I'm not saying that last bit to persuade someone to buy a Bimmer instead of the Suzi. The BMW is an expensive bike and the factory lowering and low seat add even more cost. But for anyone who is vertically challenged and wants to move to a more powerful bike that still fits, it's a bike to consider seriously. Even though it weighs about thirty or forty pounds more than the GS500E (and hardly any more than the GS500F), the fuel tank is under the seat. So the bike feels and handles like it's much lighter than the GS500.
Or you might take a test ride on the Honda CBF600SA and fall instantly in lust, as I did. :icon_mrgreen:
I sold my '94 GS500E to a lovely young lady whose favorite colour is purple. She plans to ride with her dad who has a GS550. She fits the GS500 fairly well. After sitting on my BMW and discovering that she can flat-foot it, versus heels slightly off the ground on the GS500, she figures that might be her next bike in a few years when she has a real job and can afford it.
Thanks to everyone who has provided information, suggestions and support during my rather short time on this forum. It has been a pleasure. I hope I can find some place similar for help with my new GS.
Ride safe!!
...ken...
Congrats on the new toy...I think you will be much happier with that one, since it will have a better suspension to "deal" with our Canadian frost heaved roads and also the off hiway riding you will be doing...no one mentioned the CBF600SA because it isn't available in the states...and I'm not that familiar with the bike...
That BMW is definately not on the suggested beginner list...F650GS, but it has a 800cc parallel twin engine (not sure why they didn't call it the F800GS??)...nice bike though...
I'm trying to sell my GS500 too...glad yours went to a good home :thumb:
Later.
Yeah, I'm confused. If the "F650GS" uses the same engine as the F800, what is the difference between the two? Suspension? Who the heck got to name these things :cookoo:
I thought the F650 was the terrible pregnant looking one, but I guess they restyled it to look like an F800...which makes sense...since it uses the same engine.... :technical:
650 is single and 800 is twin. Both are made by Rotax.
BMW Canada site currently lists the following models:
MSRP Cdn$ 8,800 G650GS is a single-cylinder 650cc enduro (48bhp).
MSRP Cdn$ 9,850 F650GS is a parallel-twin 800cc enduro (71bhp -- derated version of below).
MSRP Cdn$12,750 F800GS is a parallel-twin 800cc enduro (85bhp).
Oh, and the F800 is a couple inches taller than the F650. I guess you pay the extra bucks, you wanna feel like you've got a bigger bike.
Makes ya wonder. :cookoo:
5thAve has it right. My F650GS is the 800cc twin. It's lighter and less power than the F800GS. The horsepower is more like a good 600 or 650 and so is the weight. It's actually lighter than the Honda CBF600 and roughly the same horsepower. A nice combination.
The F800GS is a very tall and heavy bike. It's pretty close to the same dimensions as the old 1100GS and not a lot smaller/lighter than the 1200GS.
It actually all makes sense when you view the variety of different sized people who are all attracted to mid-displacement bikes.
The F650 is for those of us who want a smaller bike to fit us but with good mid-displacement performance. The factory lowering and low seat, the lower weight and the lower center of gravity from the fuel tank under the seat make this a really accessable bike for anyone of smaller stature. It's actually a better fit for smaller folks than, for instance, the Ninja 250. Or the GS500. It really competes in the 600 - 750cc class because of both its power and weight. It fits a really broad range of folks because you can go from the standard height with tall seat at about 820mm (32.3in) seat height down to the lowered version with low seat at 752mm (29.6in).
The F800 is for bigger riders who also want mid-displacement performance but who need a larger machine to fit them properly. It's not just the overall dimensions. It's things like the relationship between the seat and the bars and the seat and the pegs.
...ken...
Not to beat a dead thread but I thought it would be good to add my build link to this thread since it is relevant to this concept (and people searching for it)
Here's my GS500 Adventure Project (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=59785.0)