I think this is the correct section to post questions, forgive me if its not. SO, i am looking to upgrade to HID lights and i'm not sure what all that entails. Is a new headlamp housing/glass needed or can the oem (or replacement h4 halogen) unit work? I have looked at some HID kits, but is it as easy as buying the kit, installing, and replacing bulbs? If this has been gone over before i apologize, i just trust your guys' judgement and knowledge over a random eBay item description. Any advice would be super helpful, since i just bought the bike and want to begin upgrading important aspects first. again, any experience or recommendations would be extremely helpful. feel free to point out any forum rules or mistakes i've made as well. Everyone on here seems extremely helpful and i'm honored to be included in such a tight-knit community, im sure i'll have many other issues as i move forward with modding my bike but i hope to contribute to others' too. Thanks again
-01gsnewb (my name is Eli btw).
Eli-
I've been doing hid retrofits in cars for years, so I've spent countless hours(and a lot of money) researching, comparing outputs, etc.
There are basically two ways one can add HID capabilities to a headlight; only one is worth doing.
You can either pick up a drop in hid kit off ebay/etc, and just plug it in to your headlight or you can retrofit in components(a projector assembly) from a vehicle designed to use HID bulbs.
HID kits are cheap, however, they perform very very poorly and are quite unsafe. Basically, they find a way to shove an hid bulb into a headlight that isn't designed for them, and hope for the best. What this results in, is light going in directions that it is not supposed to go it. Instead of the light being focused onto the road in front of you, where it's actually useful, a lot of light gets reflected in other directions. Best case scenario, this light goes straight up or straight down or at least somewhere harmless. Usually, however, it ends up going into the eyes of the driver piloting the 4000 lbs death machine heading straight for you. Target fixation is a b!tch, and it happens to cagers to. You don't want them blinded and heading straight for you.
A properly designed HID system has components that block off light from being reflected into the eyes of oncoming drivers. This is very important.
Let's look at this example.
Here is a car with a properly retrofitted hid headlight and a stock halogen headlight with a drop in hid kit. The stock headlight is sitting on the radiator support, however, it is aimed properly.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c217/saxman242/glare-1.jpg)
These are using the exact same wattage bulbs, same ballasts, etc. The only difference is the housing on the left is using a project that is designed for hid use.
Obviously, the first thing you notice is the overwhelmingly bright light from the headlight on the right. Light is being reflected right into the eyes of the driver coming at the vehicle. Also, however, is a lot of otherwise useful light being lost on the ground inches ahead of the vehicle. What isn't clear is the large amount of light that was shooting straight up as well.
So why does this happen? A halogen light bulb works by heating a filament inside the bulb. In our case, this filament is perpendicular to the length bulb. The stock headlight is designed so that it can focus the light output from this bulb. This accounts of how bright the bulb is and the shape of the filament. A drop in hid kit tries to take an hid bulb, which doesn't use a filament, but a small chamber filled with salts, and position this chamber in the same place as the filament of the stock bulb. Unfortunately, the shape of this chamber is completely different from the filament. It's much wider and is oriented parallel to the long axis of the bulb. As a result, light is emitted in a way that is impossible for the stock headlight to properly focus. As a result, light is reflected in directions it is not meant to go. Add in the significantly brighter light source and you end up blinding on coming traffic.
So what is retrofitting? Basically, you're taking the part of the headlight that's designed to focus the light from an hid bulb and integrate that in to your housing. This way you solve and issues with improper light reflecting, because you're using the pieces already designed to do this.
Or in pictures...
one of these(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c217/saxman242/projectorcollection.jpg)
plus a stock housing
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c217/saxman242/P1010071.jpg)
gives you a retrofitted headlight
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c217/saxman242/P1010072.jpg)
Will this cost more than a drop in hid kit? Absolutely. Are you comparing apples and oranges between the two? Absolutely.
Quote from: saxman on December 18, 2010, 04:47:42 PM
Eli-
I've been doing hid retrofits in cars for years, so I've spent countless hours(and a lot of money) researching, comparing outputs, etc.
There are basically two ways one can add HID capabilities to a headlight; only one is worth doing.
You can either pick up a drop in hid kit off ebay/etc, and just plug it in to your headlight or you can retrofit in components(a projector assembly) from a vehicle designed to use HID bulbs.
HID kits are cheap, however, they perform very very poorly and are quite unsafe. Basically, they find a way to shove an hid bulb into a headlight that isn't designed for them, and hope for the best. What this results in, is light going in directions that it is not supposed to go it. Instead of the light being focused onto the road in front of you, where it's actually useful, a lot of light gets reflected in other directions. Best case scenario, this light goes straight up or straight down or at least somewhere harmless. Usually, however, it ends up going into the eyes of the driver piloting the 4000 lbs death machine heading straight for you. Target fixation is a b!tch, and it happens to cagers to. You don't want them blinded and heading straight for you.
A properly designed HID system has components that block off light from being reflected into the eyes of oncoming drivers. This is very important.
Let's look at this example.
Here is a car with a properly retrofitted hid headlight and a stock halogen headlight with a drop in hid kit. The stock headlight is sitting on the radiator support, however, it is aimed properly.
These are using the exact same wattage bulbs, same ballasts, etc. The only difference is the housing on the left is using a project that is designed for hid use.
Obviously, the first thing you notice is the overwhelmingly bright light from the headlight on the right. Light is being reflected right into the eyes of the driver coming at the vehicle. Also, however, is a lot of otherwise useful light being lost on the ground inches ahead of the vehicle. What isn't clear is the large amount of light that was shooting straight up as well.
So why does this happen? A halogen light bulb works by heating a filament inside the bulb. In our case, this filament is perpendicular to the length bulb. The stock headlight is designed so that it can focus the light output from this bulb. This accounts of how bright the bulb is and the shape of the filament. A drop in hid kit tries to take an hid bulb, which doesn't use a filament, but a small chamber filled with salts, and position this chamber in the same place as the filament of the stock bulb. Unfortunately, the shape of this chamber is completely different from the filament. It's much wider and is oriented parallel to the long axis of the bulb. As a result, light is emitted in a way that is impossible for the stock headlight to properly focus. As a result, light is reflected in directions it is not meant to go. Add in the significantly brighter light source and you end up blinding on coming traffic.
So what is retrofitting? Basically, you're taking the part of the headlight that's designed to focus the light from an hid bulb and integrate that in to your housing. This way you solve and issues with improper light reflecting, because you're using the pieces already designed to do this.
Or in pictures...
plus a stock housing
gives you a retrofitted headlight
Will this cost more than a drop in hid kit? Absolutely. Are you comparing apples and oranges between the two? Absolutely.
Excellent and informative answer. I was thinking about doing this lighting change as well but had no idea of the work necessary to
properly do it.
WOW. you've been so helpful and i thank you for working with me as i have so little experience. THis seems like a family here, its great. Saxman and all others who are happy to share their wealth of knowledge which is hard to find in this world. Thank you again, and apologize if i'm asking simple or juvenile questions but i'd rather learn from the best than copy the rest. :thumb: -Eli
No worries. This is a subject I'm particularly knowledgeable on after lots of experience. Don't let it deter you though, the difference a properly made headlight makes is amazing. When I get around to make the headlight for my bike, it'll be hid.
Like the Xealot said, Saxman speaks the truth. I was interested in the "retrofit" as well, and looked into DOT certification. DOT does not, and will not, certify a halogen bulb/hid swap. They wimp out and tell the applicants that because the original bulb uses a filament for a source, and the HID replacement does not, they will not consider it. They have tested a few and published the data, however. None of the ones they tested will pass the all of the light output and glare tests. I for one do not want an oncoming driver to be blinded by glare from my headlight.
I have a plug-n-play kit in my bike. If anything, light output and visibility is right between the stock high and low beams, not too bright to annoy other drivers but still brighter than stock lowbeam. I got lucky, in that mine does not glare at oncoming drivers. My unused light (which, as saxman already pointed out, happens in a non-projector unit) just so happens to point a small patch up diagonally to each side, usually into the upper limbs of trees on side of the road. I have never had anyone flash their lights at me, or complain about them in any way. The main reason I did the swap was to change them to a slight blue (6000k specifically) so that other drivers could better distinguish me from the other cars around them.
Quote from: redhenracing2 on December 19, 2010, 09:05:54 PM
I have a plug-n-play kit in my bike. If anything, light output and visibility is right between the stock high and low beams, not too bright to annoy other drivers but still brighter than stock lowbeam. I got lucky, in that mine does not glare at oncoming drivers. My unused light (which, as saxman already pointed out, happens in a non-projector unit) just so happens to point a small patch up diagonally to each side, usually into the upper limbs of trees on side of the road. I have never had anyone flash their lights at me, or complain about them in any way. The main reason I did the swap was to change them to a slight blue (6000k specifically) so that other drivers could better distinguish me from the other cars around them.
If you have an opportunity, park your bike about 30 feet away from a wall/garage door/some flat surface, and take a picture of the light pattern projected on to it.
saxman, what do you think about the kits that have the top shield on the bulb so the light won't disperse up but only down onto the rode?
Quote from: seamax on December 20, 2010, 09:11:17 AM
saxman, what do you think about the kits that have the top shield on the bulb so the light won't disperse up but only down onto the rode?
That is how mine was, but I removed the shields. They blocked too much light.
Quote from: redhenracing2 on December 20, 2010, 12:46:10 PM
Quote from: seamax on December 20, 2010, 09:11:17 AM
saxman, what do you think about the kits that have the top shield on the bulb so the light won't disperse up but only down onto the rode?
That is how mine was, but I removed the shields. They blocked too much light.
Where did you get yours and how much?
Mine was $40 for the full kit (instructions, ballasts & bulbs), I got it from a local shop called Dynamic Sound located in NE Atlanta. They have several different kits, ranging from $40 to $85 for single-beam kits. The 40's don't come with a warranty, but I have not had a problem out of them.
Quote from: seamax on December 20, 2010, 09:11:17 AM
saxman, what do you think about the kits that have the top shield on the bulb so the light won't disperse up but only down onto the rode?
The shields attempt to solve a much larger problem(incorrect reflection) by not letting the light reflect at all.
If you're going to do it, do it right.
I'm yet to see a drop in hid kit into a halogen reflector headlight that works well. I've seen lots of people claim theirs work great, until they're set side by side with one done correctly.
Worth mentioning that the quality of the really cheap kits tend to be, well, questionable at best. Note that a set of phillips D2S hid bulbs(what one uses in projectors) sell for about $80... for just the bulbs. The cheap kits come with very poorly made bulbs that often have much lower quality control, so not only do they not last nearly as long, but they tends to be very inconsistent in where the bulb sits in the light. Just makes problems far worse.
Also, factor in the cost of setting up a relayed wiring harness. You most certainly DO NOT want to just plug the ballasts in to your stock headlight wiring.
Quote from: saxman on December 20, 2010, 02:45:21 PM
You most certainly DO NOT want to just plug the ballasts in to your stock headlight wiring.
Oops.
Quote from: redhenracing2 on December 20, 2010, 02:52:41 PM
Quote from: saxman on December 20, 2010, 02:45:21 PM
You most certainly DO NOT want to just plug the ballasts in to your stock headlight wiring.
Oops.
The current draw of the ballasts under start up when plugged into stock wiring harnesses far exceeds the current capacities of the wire. I've seen countless numbers of wiring harnesses(including a GS) with the headlight connector melted. Even fires started.
how about just replacing the current stock bulb? what is the best way to go about that, buy nice expensive bulbs and convince yourself you have an HID light? I just need a much brighter light and i'm not sure what i should since the hid kits are shitty but the good ones are up there$$$$... well this has all helped i hope i can find the right headlight setup for my bike. thanks guys -eli
I would like to find the answer to the same question posted above me.
Just run with your brights on :dunno_white:
I got the picture that was requested, I'll upload it when I can get to a computer.
Nobody ever called me punctual . . . . .
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb144/redhen2/img1293554701805.jpg)
what happen to the peripheral patterns. Might have a hard time seeing when you turn or seeing something coming from the sides.
Quote from: redhenracing2 on December 28, 2010, 09:52:16 AM
Nobody ever called me punctual . . . . .
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb144/redhen2/img1293554701805.jpg)
Pattern looks to be focused WAY high. I can't imagine that's not going into oncoming drivers' eyes or in the rear view mirror of those in front of you. Also, you have no width to your pattern at all.
Could be worse, I suppose, but it's not what I would call even remotely acceptable.
My phone's camera isn't the best, it doesn't capture the peripheral for some reason, just the main parts. It does spread to the side plenty, and provides more visibility than stock. I know it goes into the rearview mirrors of cars in front of me, but like I've said, nobody has ever complained about it oncoming.