I have a 2006 GS500F I have been unsuccessfully trying to sell, not even a question on it. So I got to thinking what to do with the bike if it does not sell, I really don't ride it on the street anymore so it just sits in the garage.
Having just sold my race/track bike (GSXR750) I am without a track bike.
Reading on here got me thinking, why not convert it for a Track/Race bike and at least go out and have some fun on it. I am well aware of the competitiveness of the GS against the EX so that is not a show stopper for doing this as I will probably only do three LRRS race weekends and the rest will be track day stuff at NHMS and NJMP.
So you think it is worth my effort to undertake this? Or is the GS just pathetically slow no matter what you do and I am better of just scrapping the bike and spending what I would have spent on a used track prepped SV? :dunno_black:
Well... You came to the right place.
First off, I personally think that the GS500E model is a better platform for a race bike than the F model. The F model fairings are designed around the stock bars; installing clip-ons can cause clearance problems around the fairings. With that said, if you want to turn this into a race bike, the stock fairings should probably go anyway... So, sell em, get some cash, and put it into race parts.
First... The GS500 can absolutely run with the EX500s. It won't out power them down the straight, but the frame is better, and the bike is somewhat lighter than the EX... Which partially makes up for the lack of grunt. If you want to run in an open rules class, there is a lot you can do to the bike to close the horsepower gap. Ultimately though, the 500 twins class is not the most competitive in most racing clubs - here in the Bay Area, Brian Bartlow consistently places on the podium against the EX500s running a production legal Ninja 250.
If you want to race your F on a budget, here's what I would suggest:
1. Katana 750 shock on the back (I used a shock from a 2001 bike.)
2. Front end swap (or emulators, springs, fluid, Buddha brace if you want to run a production bike.)
3. Clip-ons, or club bars. (Clip ons are my preference, as they are somewhat adjustable)
4. Buddha rotor cover
5. Belly pan (A pan from any bike can be hacked on. I bent some aluminium scrap, to mount it to the frame at the front, and strapped it to the rearset mounts out back.)
That's pretty much all the major changes I've made to my GS500. I have a few additional mods, but those are personal preferences:
1. Quick turn-throttle (I run a 1/8th turn, which is a massively sensitive throttle.)
2. Keyless ignition (not too hard to hack into the stock wiring harness
3. Starlane insturment cluster / Lap timer (cost more than the bike, but is very convenient.)
For performance (production legal)
1. Yoshimura full exhaust
2. Modified signal rotor (timing advance)
3. Air Filter
4. Reject
For performance (moderate)
1. Shave head for compression
For performance (wild)
1. Cams, & Pistons, overbore (should probably be done as a set.)
2. Port / Polish
I spoke to someone who built up a GS500 race bike, claiming that with engine mods the bike produced about 50 rear wheel horsepower, up from ~35 stock. That should be fairly competitive against the EX.
For what it's worth, in the AFM, the most competitive 500 twins bike is the SV500, which is the unholy offspring of a SV450 and a SV650. Such a bike is not production legal, but is brutally fast in the superbike/formula classes.
If you are planning to race in the norcal area, let me know and I can discuss further possibilities for your bike.
Thanks for the great feedback.
Unfortunately I am about as far from NorCal as one can get. (Vermont)
I do plan to remove the stock bodywork and go from there with either just a belly pan of finish adapting a set of GSXR body work I have been messing with. It is actually fitted pretty nicely just need a few mods here and there, and it almost looks like it was made for the bike.
As the bike sits now I have a works rear shock on it with remote reservoir (Valved and sprung for my weight and track use) the stock front end has Racetech emulators and straight rate springs.
So the big decision is go with the supersport/production and retain stock exhaust and front end, or do Sportsman/ultra light superbike and put another front end on it, exhaust etc.
As for front ends I do have a 1990 GSXR750 front end and a 2006 GSXR750 front end so I do have something to choose from.
I have a set of Vortex rear sets off the GSXR that I can easily machine up adapter plates and get them on it.
Probably would stay out of the engine for now and just do filter, timing, jetting and exhaust.
Are you running the stock wheels/sizes? I have the bandit rear wheel on mine but would need to remove and go back to stock size for supersport/production classes
Even though I run the bike in a formula class, I'm currently using the stock front end and have been happy. The bike tends to push the front end if you corner off the throttle. The GS500 seems to work best when you're on the gas hard around corners. Other than that, it seems quite stable, and absorbs bumps quite well. Word of caution: I've never run the front end with the stock fork brace... I installed Buddha's brace on the front end, and have been very happy with it. I do not know how the forks perform without it.
I personally run the stock wheels. Front and rear tires are Bridgestone BT003RS, which fit the stock rims correctly. 110/70/17 front, 140/70/17 rear. Overall grip is pretty incredible... I'm getting my elbow a couple inches from the ground, and sincerely believe I could get it all the way down. Unless you do something stupid, the tires slide very predictably. Tire life is quite good. A single set could easily last you an entire race season.
The bike can be ridden incredibly fast, and makes a great learning platform. Attempting to overcome the power difference will make you a better rider, and will do a lot if you move to another bike, or start modifying things. Unless you're extremely fast, seat time and training will return much better results than bling.
Ditto to what was said earlier. Definitely have to get some form of rearsets on the bike. I used the stock ones from a 93 gsxr750, fit with only minimal modification, and as a bonus flipped the shift pattern to an upside down shift pattern. I ran the same set of tires all year, the 003's. Nine race weekends with 3 10 lap races each weekend, plus plenty of instructing on saturdays. Love those tires! Engine is pretty much stock. You just have to keep the throttle open as much as possible, you will learn what "maintaining high corner speed" is all about with this bike...
+1 regarding rear-sets, but with that said, I run the stockers. The stock pegs fold, so even if you touch them down there isn't too much risk to the bike. I ground enough material off the rear-sets that they don't tend to drag any-more - and I'm about 2 inches from putting my elbow on the floor when I corner.
Because you mentioned LRRS, I'm going to play Debbie Downer.
The bike's native class in LRRS is Production Twins, where your competition will be 99.9999% EX500s and the occasional Duc 620 SS. The rules allow for ZERO performance modifications. You can rejet, and that's about it. Airbox must be stock, filter must present the same size opening as stock (IE if you go K&N keep the restrictor) and your exhaust must be stock.
You will have a slight edge in handling and braking, but you'll be going up against machines and riders that through sheer stubbornness have determined just how far the EX can be pushed in each turn, plus they'll have motor on you. It was an uphill battle in Novice, I didn't have the balls or skills to make up the difference in Am or Expert classes. Loudon is a tight technical track, there are few places where you can carry enough additional speed over an EX through a turn to make up for that HP difference out of the hole.
The next logical class would be ULSB, anything goes as long as you stay within the displacement limits... 70hp+ Honda Hawks, 800cc Ducs of crazy output and the motards from hell are your competition here. I don't think anything short of a 4v head on top of a punched out GR650 motor plus EFI is going to be able to compete.
Now, that said the GS makes a sweet track mount for track days. And it's a dream in the wet on rains. I just wouldn't get your hopes up of getting multiple years out of it in LRRS, you'll want to upgrade FAST once you get up to speed on the track just like I did.
Thanks, all for the input. I see were I have to go with this.
Kurlon, I figured as much in Production Twins. The bike will be an occasional racer but primarily track days.
I am actually downgrading. I have been running an 07 GSXR in heavy weight superbike, but I sold off that bike.
If I really want to race hard I also have my KTM Motard.
This is more of a project, I have the bike, cant sell it so why not do something fun with it.
I have had it on NHMS as it sits today and see time wise where I am off from the Novice EX500s.
What did you do for gearing on yours?
Thanks again, I will let you know how it turns out.
I honestly don't remember now, I'll pull my sprockets out and check. I do know I geared for 105mph at redline in 6th with a 15 tooth front, but don't recall the exact rear I used.
Sounds like the GS will be perfect for what you want. You can also race it with the USCRA if you want a more relaxed form of competition in Formula EX.
I'm running -2 teeth on the rear sprocket from stock, though to be honest I could probably go lower. Max speed I've seen so far at T-Hill was 102 MPH, GPS confirmed... Probably works out to 107 on the stock speedo or so.
Well since I was not able to sell the bike, the track conversion is well on its way, here is where I stand so far.
Rejetted carbs
replaced fuel petcock
K&N lunch box
Smaller Gel battery
Removed all unnecessary stuff
Regeared and new chain -1 front, +2 rear
Full Yoshimura exhaust
Works remote reervoir shock
BT003 street racing tires 120 front, 150 rear (Already have a bandit rear wheel on it)
2001 GSXR750 front end (still waiting for the upper bushing to be made)
Brembo front master cylinder
Versah RJL pads
Galfer braided lines
WoodCraft rear sets with GP shifting
Buddha Rotor cover
R6 Throttle cam conversion
Currently working on a laying up a Superbike tail section and a Belly pan.
Halfway done safety wireing.
Need to send the forks to GMD for a rebuild/setup.
Still undecided on what to use for a Gauge cluster.
Goal is to have it on the track for mid-May.
Pictures to follow.
Alex
Burning1,
Question for you on tire pressures.
I got the Bridgestone BT003RS tires for the bike. I am heading to the track on Monday and was wondering what you run for tire pressures?
Cold?
Thanks.
Alex
Hi Alex.
Recommended pressures were 29-30 psi front, 25psi rear. I actually ran the front at 26psi, and the rear at 23 psi. The rear worked great at that pressure, but the front tended to slide, and wore out fairly quickly. I'd suggest starting a little higher.
Give the BT003RS front a try. If you're running fairly well, I'd encourage you to try other fronts. Right now I'm running a Bridgestone PowerOne B compound tire with a BT003RS rear. A fellow racer on a Ninjette is running the Pirelli Supercorsa race front with the BT003RS rear. Both of us are having good experiences with these combinations, and I can confidently say that that Power One grips a good bit better than the BT003RS.
I would love to see what you work out for a tail. I'm looking to install a superbike tail myself. Buddha has suggested that a CBR F4 tail is a nice fit, but after my RGV Swap expereience, I don't want to be a test dummy for a while longer.
Keep this thread updated people. I started to race my 91 track bike this year and am sorting it out now. There is really only one other novice ULSS rider and he is on a KTM SMR450 so I'm toast. I'm getting faster still learning...
(http://www.momentumphoto.net/events/cra/2011/may/78/images/CRA11_05_0086.jpg)
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/230150_10150183349909691_607244690_6719347_2368397_n.jpg)
Burning1 Thanks for the pressure recommendations, I will start with that.
I see that you got the GSXR front end on your bike, how is at going?
Did you change valving/springs or all stock?
How did you set the front height on them?
Tail is coming along slowly. Mold is pretty much done, know I have to try and mold an actual tail.
Quote from: burning1 on May 17, 2011, 10:30:09 AM
Right now I'm running a Bridgestone PowerOne B compound tire with a BT003RS rear.
Do you mean Michelin Pilot Power Ones???
Yep, sorry. I currently have the Michelin PowerOne V on the front (which is a B compound,) and the BT003RS 140/60/17 rear. The PowerOne is available in a 110/70/17 front, in the super-soft A compound. Should fit the stock GS wheel just fine.
Quote from: vtgs500f on May 18, 2011, 11:40:52 AM
Burning1 Thanks for the pressure recommendations, I will start with that.
I see that you got the GSXR front end on your bike, how is at going?
Did you change valving/springs or all stock?
How did you set the front height on them?
Tail is coming along slowly. Mold is pretty much done, know I have to try and mold an actual tail.
The front end is working out well. I freshened the oil and raised it by 20cc, but otherwise left the front end stock. SS lines installed, stock brake pads (already due for replacement.) The GSX-R forks are slightly shorter than the GS500 forks, so I set them flush with the upper triple. Turn in feels slightly heavier than it did with the GS forks, so I might be able to lower them a little at the cost of some ground clearance... But improving my BP really helped get the bike over.
Stock GSX-R front springs are .90kg/mm, which works out allright for my weight. .95s might be slightly better. Running a stock R6 shock in the back, with nothing but a trackside adjustment.
Overall, I really like the solution, and would recommend it to anyone who isn't restricted from swapping forks as per their class rules.
Hmm I have to look and see if Bridgestone is really paying any contingancy money for Ultralight. Then again there is almost no one in novice anyway so i'm sure we don't make grid minimum as it is. So I could run Power One's up front, they just need to be DOT to be Supersport legal.......
What is your life expectancy on that B spec Power One?
Well, one issue is that in order to collect contingency, most manufacturers expect you to run the same tires front and back. OTOH, if you've already done the Kat rear swap, there's no reason you can't run Michelins front and back.
I haven't worn out my front tire, but I do have 5 trackdays on them, and they look to be good for another 5 more. So, somewhere in the range of what I used to get out of the BT003RS (I used a front and a half in 6 trackdays and 2 race weekends.)
Quote from: burning1 on May 18, 2011, 06:10:10 PM
Well, one issue is that in order to collect contingency, most manufacturers expect you to run the same tires front and back. OTOH, if you've already done the Kat rear swap, there's no reason you can't run Michelins front and back.
Thus my problem with the set up. But as I said I don't think anyone is paying for my class and I'm pretty damn sure grids aren't big enough even if they were paying.
Well the bike is pretty much done and made its track debut yesterday (In the rain). It ran fantastic, pulled strong, handled great, brakes were fantastic.
Very comfortable body position (Way better for me then my GSRX). The tires were a little iffy when the track was wet, but came in once it was only damp. (only a couple of slides that really made me sweat) It was fun to beat up on all the 1K bikes in the rain, I was a little worried about running in the advanced group with them, but no problems and I did a fair amount of passing.
Overall very happy, needs a few adjustments and the belly pan, and it is ready to race. Oh and some rain tires.
Here is a picture of it at the track.
(http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv251/VT-GSD/IMG00225.jpg)
Very nice, congrats.
No kidding on the difference a rain makes. First time I ever found myself 'out-powering' the 600s down the front straight at T-Hill.
some great info in here, have read it a few times now. i appreciate everyone's input!
will hopefully be picking Strider's race bike soon. and gettin it on the track next summer.
anyone else on the east coast tracking a gs?
used to....
still have some goodies left
only 1.5 hr away from ya
will safety wire for fud and replacement drill bits