I like my GS, and eventually (eventually), am going to trade up on a slightly larger bike. Am thinking SV650SF or Gladius. However, I've read on this forum Suzuki has poor quality control? Is there any truth to this? Kawasaki was also slammed for poor welds and the like. Both these brands are in my price range, and they both produce the type of bikes I'm looking for...but I'd rather just keep the GS if I'm going to be buying crap.
Every manufacturer has their bugs in the quality department. SV650s are a quality bike, the only negative thing I have heard about them is the front suspension is a little soft, much the same as the GS500.
Not to overgeneralize; but Japanese durable goods are pretty trustworthy. Something about early adoption of statistical process controls. Perhaps that stereotype is a bit dated though.
Just google whatever bike you are thinking about and you will be sure to find lots of owner reviews :thumb:
-Jessie
Yeah, I find the owner reviews more informative than the professional ones...they have spent the money on the entry fee and it is usually pretty obvious when they are happy with the bike and when they are not...the only ones I ignore, are when a squid reviews an SV650 and seem to think it will (or should) out perform their buddies on gixxers or an R6...but those are easy to spot...the pro reviews tend to be just getting off the latest land rocket and always seem to say "it is down on power", or "there's no bottom end, you have to spin it up to 7 grand to get it to move"...I think they forget that some of us start small and move up to a bike that still isn't the sharpest stick, but it is much sharper than the one we are moving on from...
epinion is a good one, as well as www.powersportsnetwork.com
Good luck!! :thumb:
Later.
When Mrs. Bad Example first evidenced interest in the GS500, the first thing I did was google +GS500 +complaints, +GS500 +review (et cetera). We found a trove of comments, and dwelled mostly on owner reviews and comments. (Our previous Suzuki, a 650 Savage, was a lamentably lame moto.)
You're sure to find both adherents and detractors for EVERY make. I love my Ninja 650 to death, but some of the engineering and finish traits pale in comparison to the GS. Mrs. and I love her GS, but of course there's features we'd like to see changed. Ms. Bad Example thoroughly enjoys her Ninja 250 and 675 Daytona, but still perfection eludes...and so on...
In short, every marque has its alleged strengths and weaknesses; the one Honda I owned had electrical issues from month three; a family member's KTM was a lemon from the word go. A decent owner-touted reputation combined with a reliable and honest mechanic has worked well for us, selection-wise, so far.
(And FWIW, the SV650 has a stellar reputation around these parts. Apart from some, but by no means all, stating that the front suspension is inadequate, I've heard no complaints at all. Haven't yet met a Gladius rider, but would have had one myself had they been available in Spring '09.)
Did you hear the quality complaints about the GS, or about suzukis in general? Every manufacturer has different levels of quality and it all depends on what you pay. Some of the welds on the GS are a nightmare to look at, but it's a cheap bike so it doesn't get as much attention. If you pay twice as much for a gsxr you'll definitely see a lot more quality. Not only are you paying for light weight and power, but you're paying for nicer parts, nicer welds, nicer materials. I would think a gladius would certainly be a nicer quality bike than a GS, it definitely looks like it's put together better, but it still has some short comings.
I also hate professional reviews. That's why I started that comparison thread on this forum. Hearing opinions about bikes from other GS owners is really helpful. Hearing reviews from guys who spend half of their time on the track, on race modified 350lb 175hp bikes doesn't help me in the slightest. You could hop on a 2005 gsxr and think it's the nicest/fastest/smoothest bike you've ever ridden, but magazines are just gonna say it's slow and heavy because it has 3hp less than the current model.
The other issue is that everyone thinks their bike is the best. If you're around honda riders all you've gonna hear is suzuki/kawa/yamaha bashing, if you're around suzuki riders all you're gonna hear is honda/kawa/yamaha bashing. If you get a lot of them together you'll just hear some Harley bashing, and if you put those 2 groups together, you'll just hear Buell bashing. You'll never win. In general though, I'd consider any Japanese company to be pretty top notch when it comes to quality control. I love other bikes(Triumph, MV, Buell), but I still accept that there's just certain things that even other major bike companies can't do, just because they're not as big as the japanese companies.
It was actually from member on this forum. He seems like a pretty respected guy around here and knows his stuff, but what he was saying came off a bit hyperbolic.
QuoteAnyone see that gladius in person. Is it as disgusting as the pics suggest. And most importantly, with suzuki quality control and their water color paint on the frame, is "rust" listed as a standard or is it a accessory ?
Cool.
Buddha.
Check out the November 2010 Super StreetBike mag. the SV650 was featured in the used and reviewed section. A lot of long term owners are happy with it.
If you buy used, get a feel for the previous owner and rather they are on the hooligan side. Wheelies cause oil starvation in the SV engines and will eventually kill them.
I like the look of the Gladius. I think Zook stopped making them though, and I'm not sure if even the SV with full fairings is still in their lineup. Neither one was featured at the International Motorcycle show this year. The 09 GS500F was still there sitting pretty!
Check out this forum: http://forum.svrider.com/
They are pretty enthusiastic about the SV and the Gladius. :cheers:
Quote from: Pelikan on January 27, 2011, 12:10:49 PM
It was actually from member on this forum. He seems like a pretty respected guy around here and knows his stuff, but what he was saying came off a bit hyperbolic.
QuoteAnyone see that gladius in person. Is it as disgusting as the pics suggest. And most importantly, with suzuki quality control and their water color paint on the frame, is "rust" listed as a standard or is it a accessory ?
Cool.
Buddha.
I've seen the gladius in person and did not like it. I like the SV650S, the SV650 is OK too, I don't feel like Suzuki needs to further segment that market with an ugly bike like the gladius. They already have the awful looking V-Storm with the same motor. I suppose somebody a lot smarter than me made that decision but I just don't like the gladius.
Buddha is no different from the rest of us...he has his opinion based on experiences he's had or heard about...take all the amateur reviews with a grain of salt...tt_four is right, it depends on where the review is coming from...just read all you can about the bikes you are interested in, and just think about each review as to where the writer may be coming from...a person that has only owned one, or maybe two bikes so far will not have the same evaluation skills as someone who has had 10 or 15 (that's different models of bike Buddha)...I'm one of those, the only street bike I've owned is the GS500 so it is the best bike ever (kinda)...I've test rode a few bikes now and have developed an appreciation of other bikes, but I still think of the GS as a "benchmark"...which it is for me, since my previous ownership experience was a Honda Trail 70 I owned from '79-'83...but if you talk to someone who has only owned a Suzuki Savage (S40), they will probably tell you it is the greatest (unless they had an issue with the bike, then the opposite will be the case)
As for the Gladius, my personal opinion is that it is more comfortable than the GS...has more performance, similar fuel consumption, but less range (15L tank)...I haven't looked that closely at one to know the build quality, so I don't know...
Later.
Quote from: mike__R on January 27, 2011, 12:40:11 PMI've seen the gladius in person and did not like it. I like the SV650S, the SV650 is OK too, I don't feel like Suzuki needs to further segment that market with an ugly bike like the gladius. They already have the awful looking V-Storm with the same motor. I suppose somebody a lot smarter than me made that decision but I just don't like the gladius.
Yeah, I'm not necessarily sold on the gladius. At first, when I found out they were replacing the SV650 with it, I balked. But the look is growing on me a bit (still hate that transformers exhaust pipe).
All things considered, when I do upgrade it'll probably be to the SV650SF, as I'm pretty sure I'll want a faired bike for freeway cruising. Anyone know how compfy then are for extended runs?
Quote from: Pelikan on January 27, 2011, 12:58:02 PM
All things considered, when I do upgrade it'll probably be to the SV650SF, as I'm pretty sure I'll want a faired bike for freeway cruising. Anyone know how compfy then are for extended runs?
I rode my '01 SV650S (1/4 fairing) from NY to MN and back to NY. This was several years ago, and I don't see doing that again. 300 Miles in a day is pretty do-able on that bike for me, 400 in a day leaves me pretty sore. On my long trip I did one day with around 800 miles (give or take) and that hurt.
I'm one of the few people who really enjoys the Gladius. It reminds me of a miniature MV Brutale. Never seen one in person though.
Every bike within the price threshold of most forum members will have something wrong with it from a certain perspective. Find the one which suits your needs the best.
For example..if my GS had more horsepower, a better suspension, better brakes, and didn't shed parts every time I rode it...it would be perfect.
Quote from: XealotX on January 27, 2011, 07:37:23 PM
For example..if my GS had more horsepower, a better suspension, better brakes, and didn't shed parts every time I rode it...it would be perfect.
Those are my qualms as well (minus the shedding parts :)). I know the suspension can be fixed to a certain extent, and the brakes I can live with, but man, I wish there was a way to squeeze like 10-15 more HP from this mill...reliably and inexpensively. I really do enjoy riding this bike, and think it's really nice for what it is, but I don't picture myself on it forever.
Quote from: Pelikan on January 27, 2011, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: mike__R on January 27, 2011, 12:40:11 PMI've seen the gladius in person and did not like it. I like the SV650S, the SV650 is OK too, I don't feel like Suzuki needs to further segment that market with an ugly bike like the gladius. They already have the awful looking V-Storm with the same motor. I suppose somebody a lot smarter than me made that decision but I just don't like the gladius.
Yeah, I'm not necessarily sold on the gladius. At first, when I found out they were replacing the SV650 with it, I balked. But the look is growing on me a bit (still hate that transformers exhaust pipe).
All things considered, when I do upgrade it'll probably be to the SV650SF, as I'm pretty sure I'll want a faired bike for freeway cruising. Anyone know how compfy then are for extended runs?
Just a note - the faired versions of the SV650 have a more aggressive riding position than the naked. You will just have to take each model you like for a test run or at least sit on it to see which you like better.
Have you looked at the gsx650F I sat on one and it really felt like Flick all growed up LOL.
http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Cycles/Products/GSX650F/2009/GSX650F.aspx
Mary
Sounds like the 'quality control' comment was mostly about the paint, something Suzuki has always skimped on a bit at various times. I remember mid-90's Katana's where the paint literally rubbed off the tank and sidepanels...but mechanically they've always been pretty top notch as far as I know.
Honda has always been the high-water-mark for finished product and attention to detail, but aside from some early production bikes I've seen from Fischer and Hyosung which looked REALLY rough, most major manufacturers have castings, welds and other parts that are at more than acceptable aesthetically, if not functionally.
The SV650 is a really neat bike. The Gladius is a really neat bike that got whacked with an ugly stick. I would love to have an SV650. If you gave me a Gladius, I would IMMEDIATELY get rid of it to get an SV650.
The S model has a fairly sporty riding position. Fine for me, but too much for some people. You could always look at a set of Helibars/Convertibars/GillesVariobars if you like the bike otherwise and have a couple hundred bucks to toss on a set of higher/adjustable bars.
The GSX650F is bigger and heavier, but you might also find one for a bargain, since it's 'lower performance' :bs: in comparison to the competition caused it to languish a bit on dealership sales floors. I saw a 2008 last fall for only $4000 ~ about 50% of the price of a new 2009/2010 around here.
The other bike I really like is Yamaha's FZ6R. You can find a nice comparison between it, the GSX650 and the 650 Ninja at the link below:
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2010-kawasaki-ninja-650-vs-2009-suzuki-gsx650f-vs-2010-yamaha-fz6r-89460.html
I read that comparison a little while back. Liked it. The GSX650 would be awesome if it didn't weigh 540lbs :icon_sad:.
Quote from: Pelikan on January 28, 2011, 12:29:59 AM
I read that comparison a little while back. Liked it. The GSX650 would be awesome if it didn't weigh 540lbs :icon_sad:.
1st: No-one can understand The Buddha. He speaks/writes his own language. So when he bags quality control, pay it no mind. :thumb:
2nd: Without riding one, you cannot say how un-awesome it is based on its weight. For example... the Z750 weights More than the Z1000 - and yet - when you ride this Heavy Beast (compared to the thou and certainly to the GS500) you do not feel the weight at all. Do NOT get caught up in the weight of a bike. Sure the GSX650 weighs about as much as a Suzuki Bandit 1250. But that doesn't mean the bike doesn't go like the clappers or feel totally rad too ride.
Remember, to a person coming off a 700pound cruiser, the GSX650 is a featherweight. That's why it is so meaningless. Just go ride the thing and decide for yourself. Cause seriously, unless you're pushing the dang thing up hill, you will not notice the weight. You'll notice different handling, but you won't ride down the highway thinking, man this thing rides heavy in a straight line.
Michael
just go ride one, the quality is there. pick whichever RIDES the way u want and ditch the motomags.
reviews are not all they're supposed to be.
What ... suzuki has quality control ... really, really ... where ? I'd like to see it.
OK well, not much worse than the other jap manufacturers. However what suzuki is soundly and much more than other japs guilty of is being entirely insensitive to their target market.
The story is this. The gladius was announced and its web site built and they were @ the bike shows. The instant it hit the market, the sv boards all dumped on the steel frame, the plasticky crap faux chrome covers and how crappy they looked and just trashed the overall quality of the bike, the poor welds and the fact that it will rust if exposed to the elements.
Then there was the absolute Ghey fruity azzed website with tacky graphics and just plain over done everything. People dumped on that too.
Suzuki ignored all that. They were trying to replace the sv650 with that trash. Seriously ... that's like replacing your foot with some wooden peg.
Seriously these days no one buys anything without googling it. Not even a pack of gum.
They draw bikes sitting in a corner office on the other side of the world after having taken the train with 15 million others and they have done it for 25 years. Sadly they dont know what the riding public want. They are bean counters with a drafting degree.
Anyway, Gladius is POS, no where near the sv IMHO, the sv will work and hold up pretty good ... and its quality control is actually excellent. I've split a pair of 1000's and put em back together, really nice, not light and chintzy like the GSXR, nice and heavy duty. The 1000, the 650 is a bit lighter for running gear, but good nonetheless. The Gladius is what I will buy when a rusty one shows up in my hood for 200 bucks. Dont laugh, I have found a ER650 for 500 already and its only got 10% of its exposed surface rusty.
Cool.
Buddha.
Buddha's hated the gladius since the day it came out. There was no chance you were ever gonna hear anything good about that bike out of him haha
I don't totally agree, I actually like the looks of the Gladius...the colour choices are a little questionable, but the overall look of the bike is nice...but it is just too small of a bike...I know they are trying to make it more accessable to beginner riders and hoping to bring in more women...but some beginner riders are taller than 5'8 and weigh in over 200lbs...and why put such a small fuel tank on it...right bean counter thingy again...lower the curb weight...
We are just lucky that they are selling these types of bikes here, since they are a niche market bike...if you look at sales charts, North Americans buy either fully fared sport bikes or chrome monster cruisers...I'm almost surprised they bother with any other style of bike...for us anyway...
I would buy the Gladius if I didn't look so rediculous on it...that's why I like the MT-01 so much...similar riding position and style (if over the top in many areas...1700cc engine??), but it has a better seat height for a taller rider and high quality components...but again with the silly little fuel tank??...
I'm glad we are getting these niche bike choices...Versys, ER-6n, Gladius, FZ8, etc...since they really appeal to me, but they don't really sell that well...hopefully they also bring the GSR750 over...I haven't seen one yet, but the internet chatter is pretty good...
As for build quality, you get what you pay for...you want a nice Gladius with good welds, go buy a Ducati Monster...but you will pay...you want a fun cheap bike the looks good and sounds pretty decent...get a Gladius, but you may want to save for a paint job...pink bike? or sky blue...hmmm...pay a shop a few hundred to make it look good...
Later.
They must have targeted riders who like rust and plasticky faux covers who like looking Gheeeey and making a lot of gas stops I guess.
I actually dont agree its a niche market, the sv 650 sold extrordinarily well. It was intended to slowly replace the sv, like if the gladius had sold to 1/2 the num,mbers of the sv, by now, the sv would ahve been toast. In retrospect dropping the sv1000 just seems stupid if you ask me. The DL 1000 is still being made, which means they have to keep making the 1000 motor, and the sv650 isn't going away, cos the gladius is a flop, so the sv's aluminum frame is still being made. So they have nearly all the pieces for the sv1K but no sv1K.
Well, I dont hate the gladius really, I hate suzuki for pulling the switch and hope we wont notice. Y'know, the sv was so great, but this one is just the same thing, you guys should get this. I just like pointing out the thing will rust, that's all.
BTW The ninja 650 I dont trash much at all, they're not pulling a switcharoo. Its just a steel framed bike, nothing more, nothing less.
Cool.
Buddha.
my brand new 2009 GS500F has large areas of metal not painted
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1994/pc290019v.jpg
this is one of the areas its the front fairing stay (this pic is huge so ill just put a link)
iam waiting on Suzuki to ring me back with replacement parts, but iam not sure what they are going to do about the frame.
The SV did/does sell, but it is the SV650S that is the sales success, not so much the naked version...they don't even import the naked one anymore. I think the last year for it in Canada was 2009, and probably before that in the States...
It's not the bike itself, it's the look of the bike that sells it...the Ninja 650R is prime example...naked version ER-6n, doesn't sell nearly as well, even though it is cheaper and the same bike except for the headlight and faring...
Later.
the gsx650F felt pretty light! But I didnt "ride" it so :dunno_white:
Mary
Quote from: madjak30 on January 28, 2011, 11:18:27 AM
The SV did/does sell, but it is the SV650S that is the sales success, not so much the naked version...they don't even import the naked one anymore. I think the last year for it in Canada was 2009, and probably before that in the States...
It's not the bike itself, it's the look of the bike that sells it...the Ninja 650R is prime example...naked version ER-6n, doesn't sell nearly as well, even though it is cheaper and the same bike except for the headlight and faring...
Later.
xlar8: WTF ... yikes.
Madjak: Naked sv didn't sell much, so they decided it was the aluminum frame and the plastic that looked like plastic as well as people that looked like they could be straight that was to blame I guess.
I guess the gladius addressed all 3.
Cool.
Buddha.
Man, did someone piss in your Corn Flakes this morning??
All I'm saying is the Gladius isn't selling like they hoped, and if they put a faring on it similar to what they did to the GS500 to create the GS500F it would sell more...
I prefer the naked bikes, but I'm apparently out of touch with what sells...
They have a black version out now that is much nicer than the lame light blue one or the pink one that came out originally...but it is still a physically small bike...
Later.
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on January 28, 2011, 11:28:41 AM
the gsx650F felt pretty light! But I didnt "ride" it so :dunno_white:
Mary
I test rode a GSX650F. Rides pretty much like the GS500 with a little more power and quieter engine (4 cyl.vs.2). It is 100 pounds heavier. I couldn't justify twice the money for it so that's when I bought Junior. 2 GS500's are better than one GSX650F.