Some pictures of Erik Buell's new street legal bike finally came out yesterday. It's a shame to think about all the talent that Harley wasted by giving him so many constant restrictions on what he was and wasn't allowed to do. Changing some restrictions, some good PR/support, and a dealer network not made up of white trash and they could've actually made some good money on some serious bikes. To think he came up with this bike from the ground up after being tossed out on his ass just a year and a half ago. Unfortunately it'll probably be a while before they're able to make bikes normal people can afford. The first article even quotes Erik saying he really wants one, but doesn't even have the cash to buy one because all of his money is tied up in the company.
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=43359
http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle_news/first_looks_articles/11q1/erik_buell_racing_ebr_1190rs_-_first_look
(http://www.roadracingworld.com/images/article/IMG_40311297988255.JPG)
:thumb: I like. It would have been cool if he kept the underbelly exhaust sytem so the bike has a cleaner line.
Found one of these parked up next to my Ducati when I came out to the carpark at the mall the other day. Looked impressive but I think the naked ones still look better imo.
(http://www.motorsports-network.com/buell/081125R344.jpg)
Quote from: seamax on February 18, 2011, 07:44:00 PM
:thumb: I like. It would have been cool if he kept the underbelly exhaust sytem so the bike has a cleaner line.
It has an underbelly exhaust, the part you see is a 2nd exhaust just to quiet the bike down more due to the output. It sounds like the bike was designed so that changing the exhaust and fuel map will give you a huge jump in performance, so any aftermarket exhaust will probably only be the part under the motor. I think he started off with just the underbelly exhaust, but then emissions requirements changed and they had to make a last minute update and just stuck the 2nd exhaust on. The 2nd exhaust also makes the bike legal world wide, as bikes in japan apparently are required to have a high rear facing exhaust to be legal. The actual race bike doesn't have that exhaust on it.
(http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/EBR_1.jpg)
Quote from: Twisted on February 18, 2011, 09:16:17 PM
Found one of these parked up next to my Ducati when I came out to the carpark at the mall the other day. Looked impressive but I think the naked ones still look better imo.
I've never gotten used to the 1125R, I like the CR, but I just can't wrap my mind around that massive fairing. It's way too wide and mounted about half a foot too high. The pods are ok, but he should've just used the normal firebolt fairing.
So you consider me white trash Eh?, wtf. because i owned a harley product, so i guess im white trash now lol. lets be a lil more condescneding Eh?. anyhoo that first bike looks like a honda. almsot has tehir mark on teh tank
I saw on the ducati forum that it was gonna cost 40 grand to buy it? Ouch.
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on February 18, 2011, 10:04:22 PM
So you consider me white trash Eh?, wtf. because i owned a harley product, so i guess im white trash now lol. lets be a lil more condescneding Eh?. ...
Depending on how you read his post he might be implying that Harley "dealers" were white trash...not Harley owners.
Now...if you owned a Harley motorcycle AND a Harley dealership...then I guess you're white trash. :thumb:
Quote from: Twisted on February 19, 2011, 06:10:42 AM
I saw on the ducati forum that it was gonna cost 40 grand to buy it? Ouch.
Yup, it'll be up there. Everything on the bike is carbon though. Not just the bodywork, but all the brackets and everything else. Eventually they'll make one with some metal and plastic that would be a little more affordable.
and yes, I specifically said "dealer network made up of white trash". The dealerships unwillingness to support and sell the bikes was one of the biggest problems for Buell. HD made the dealerships sell the bikes, and then the dealerships would just stuff the bikes back into a corner and do their best to forget they were there. Even after you bought one of the bikes it's still a hassle to get anything worked on or get spare parts, unless you're lucky enough to find one of the dealerships that actually has a few employees who like the bikes. HD is supposed to make parts for 10 years, but you can already walk into plenty of HD dealerships and they'll just blow you off and tell you the parts are discontinued. What are you gonna do, force the dealerships to order you a part? Even normal dealerships carry a variety of bikes from sportsbikes to cruisers, dirtbikes and scooters, and someone will be happy to sell you whatever you want. HD dealerships are usually the only place where you'll find 50 bikes that all look exactly the same, and you get scoffed at if you ask about anything different. My bitterness is based entirely around the dealerships, not the people who like the bikes.
I personally don't have an issue with any dealer only wanting to deal with one specific bike and nothing else. If I want to look at harley's, I go to their dealer. If I want to look at yamaha's, I go to their dealer. Did Buell ever have their own dedicated dealerships?
They didn't, HD only sent the bikes to HD dealerships, and the dealerships wanted nothing to do with them. It was a pretty poor system. They like to keep a short leash on their projects. It definitely could have been a different story if they were sitting in show rooms with other sport oriented bikes. No one browsing through a HD dealership was gonna get distracted by a sportbike, but they definitely could've gotten some attention mixed in between some SV650s and Z1000s.
BMW is the same way, they want their own showrooms and don't usually let dealerships combine BMW bikes with other bikes. I'm sure they think it's for a good reason, but I think it's just because they don't want their customers to see that there are other options out there. Out of site out of mind.
Is there anyone out there making aftermarket parts for them? I know with Ducati there are guys out there making cheaper (same materials as oem) parts and selling them on web sites at a fraction of the cost of OEM. Seems if it has Ducati Geniune part on it it is a reason to mark up the price. Timing belts as an example -
Genuine Ducati - $260
Aftermarket brand - $120
the buell xb series, were well tehy used engines with higher compression heads, from teh harley sportster. teh xb9 was an 883. teh 12, well, a 1200 i think buell briefly used a rotax engine? the old thunderbolts were sportie based as well. the under exhaust actually flowed quite well, as good as, and sometimes better than a high pipe or an underseat. the hd engines have 2 cylinders yes, BUT 1 pin on the crankshaft for teh con rods to attach to. rods were siamesed. so say a 1340 evo. was in essence a 1340 thumper. cool thing about that, is you can change teh displacement of engine by changing the cylinders of said engine. using original con rod, and head. i briefly had a 1340 sportster. ( largest oen can go before changing more things. i picked up the cylinders at a swap meet, and the pistons off of ebay. NIB. honed cylinders installed rings, installed the cylinders and the supercharger ( driven from crankshaft) a piece my uncle made up for me in peoria az. it voided the hell out of my warranty. well would have lol. but if i ever had to bring it in. the things i did could be undone in 2 hours. anyhoo sorry about the long winded recollection, its like parts by suzuki, say oil filters. there are essentially 3 manufacturers. suzi's oil filter has a cross referenceand can be had for far less. same with oil. or rad caps from motos. etc. cam belts same way. sometimes teh aftermarket oens even cheaper are better than OEM. but if someone is going to drop 40big into a bike, id understand oif they wanted to use theOEM stuff.
Quote from: Twisted on February 19, 2011, 09:34:41 PM
Is there anyone out there making aftermarket parts for them? I know with Ducati there are guys out there making cheaper (same materials as oem) parts and selling them on web sites at a fraction of the cost of OEM.
No one's really making anything yet, but the bike isn't even in production yet. Aftermarket has always been pretty low for Buells. I always wondered why no one else started making aftermarket airboxes and flyscreens. Tons of companies can shape plastic for windscreens and bodywork. I would've loved to see someone putting out more bodywork in different colors. It only takes 10 minutes to change the color of my bike and it would've been great to have some green pieces, I'm sure a lot of people would be into pink and other random colors. Some companies make fender eliminators and stuff like that, but no one really makes replacement parts, aside from things like air filters. The 1190s are pretty serious bikes though, and if you can afford to pay $40k for a bike, I doubt you're gonna care what replacement parts cost. Eventually they'll make some cheaper ones. Also, for what it's worth, a lot of the motor parts can just be replace with normal 1125 parts, so that'll help with cost.
Yama: the newer 1125s are all rotax engines. The 1190 also has the same motor as the 1125, but once they get them from rotax they're upping the displacement, putting in some titanium valves and various other things. I guess for a company that small it's cheaper to stick with the old motor and modify them, rather than having Rotax start making all new motors.
Buell had apparently started on this bike when HD pulled the plug.
I was listening to a commentary about Apple, and Steve Jobs. At one point he got fired from Apple ~ had worked all his adult life to make the Apple product and then he was out on his keister at 30. Looking back he realizes it was the best thing that could have happened since forced him to pursue other ventures, and he eventually returned to Apple a better person.
It's taken more than 20+ years, but finally Eric Buell seems to have made a motorcycle worth buying, even if it is a boutique marquee.
why al the positive love for buell ? even when he was with hd people were all lovey dovey for his bikes because he was doing something "different" according to some circles.
the engine is antiquated, the price astronomical, and parts are, well, who knows tomorrow.
I understand it has two wheels, and that's a reason to enjoy it , but otherwise, I just don't get why people defend these bikes.
please take this as a question, not a criticism. the gs is fractions of the price, exponentially more reliable, etc
Easy up with the HD bashing :laugh:
I just wish when Erik Buell ran with the ZTR/whatever front brake that he thought ahead about wheels instead of buying 11,000,000 units of the first thing that came his way.
Quote from: ohgood on February 23, 2011, 07:26:14 AM
why al the positive love for buell ? even when he was with hd people were all lovey dovey for his bikes because he was doing something "different" according to some circles.
the engine is antiquated, the price astronomical, and parts are, well, who knows tomorrow.
I understand it has two wheels, and that's a reason to enjoy it , but otherwise, I just don't get why people defend these bikes.
please take this as a question, not a criticism. the gs is fractions of the price, exponentially more reliable, etc
well ill take it as bashing, im used to hd bashing here on the twin. funny my gs had let me down more than my hd ever did. that aside i loved em both equally. now, you may call it marketing or whatever, they hold their value extremely well. the engines, IF using the pushrod sportster plants, parts will be available infinately. plus you can change engine displacement easily. and with minimal expense. all you need are 2 cylinders ( like say a 1340 evo.) and 2 pistons. everything else from the buell will work
Quote from: ohgood on February 23, 2011, 07:26:14 AM
why al the positive love for buell ? even when he was with hd people were all lovey dovey for his bikes because he was doing something "different" according to some circles.
the engine is antiquated, the price astronomical, and parts are, well, who knows tomorrow.
I understand it has two wheels, and that's a reason to enjoy it , but otherwise, I just don't get why people defend these bikes.
please take this as a question, not a criticism. the gs is fractions of the price, exponentially more reliable, etc
The price is high compared to the GS, but I think it's pretty fair compared to other naked 1000cc bikes. The engine is old, but Erik managed to squeeze twice as much HP out of it as it originally produced, and it still makes way more torque than all of the usual inline 4 motors you see. To be fair it's not like the GSs motor is really all that much younger. Buddha is probably the only one who could rattle off the exact year by memory, but I'd say the GS motor is based off of an original from at least the 1970s, if not older. It's not the same 180mph rocket engine you're used to seeing, but it's perfect for riding on the street which works well considering it's a street bike made for riding on the road, not a race bike with headlights and a tail light bolted on. The GS definitely costs less, but the XB comes with a real suspension, good brakes a shorter wheelbase, and a motor that I would consider just as reliable as the GSs. I see way more problem related posts on this forum than I do over on the XB forum, there's rarely any issues with these motors. The valves even adjust themselves, which to me is amazing.
These bikes are just something that get into some peoples heads and you can't push them out. Spend enough time around them and a lot of japanese sportbikes just look kind of bland, even if they do make 170hp. If it wasn't for the Monster, Ducati wouldn't even be around anymore. That bike carried Ducati through the 90s, and it's the same old style of air cooled 90some hp motor that seems weak compared to other bikes. The important thing to me, is that not many companies seem to take naked bikes seriously. Japan makes some, but aside from the Z1000, which is still 50lbs heavier than the xb, all the other bikes you usually see are just considered budget commuters. They all come with cheap parts and a crappy nonadjustable suspension. Buells are one of the few naked bikes that are actually made for having fun, and not just being cheap. They were designed as naked bikes, instead of just recycling an old motor in a cheap steal frame with a bunch of parts that were laying around. Erik Buell has a ton of passion for what he does, so I can definitely appreciate the bike for being the only american sportbike around. You've gotta give him credit for making a bike that can even relatively compete with some of the bikes the huge japanese companies are putting out there. Even though japan could make a nicer bike if they wanted to, it's just not the same as some guy from here in Pittsburgh that started building and racing his own bikes that has actually gotten as far as he has. You can literally send a message to Erik on facebook with a question, and get a response from him the same day. He goes above and beyond what anyone at one of the japanese companies would ever do and I'd much rather support him. Not that I don't like japanese bikes too. I have the GS, and the next bike I'm gonna get will probably just be a drzsm, but I'll ride it for a while and move on. I'm hoping I still have my xb when I die haha.
you can get 150k out of top end, with nothign but oil changes. 200k out of bottom. and all of 3 hours rebuilding it. that aside, can get more, if you allow them to warm up PROPERLY. a low tech method for hd hell for any bike. the top end, cyls, and bottom end expand at 3 different rates. if its got fins ;), after starting, periodically touch fins with back of hand, ( on side) when they become too hot to do so, it is properly warmed. as long as you feel heat with your hands, this works. and = long life out of engine. if you cant wait that long, ( yes i know it happens,) take it EASY on any bike until warmed up then give her hell :thumb:
if u do go for a drz, get an S, not an SM. more power, better suspension, and the wheels won't suck for dirty riding. ... something I've learned over the last summer. the E drz has the most power, but not streetable legally in some places. 2 cents :-)
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on February 24, 2011, 12:48:41 AM
if you cant wait that long, ( yes i know it happens,) take it EASY on any bike until warmed up then give her hell :thumb:
I don't get to do this, the neighbors don't care for my exhaust, haha. I start it up and take off, but I'm just super gentle on the motor until I know it's warmed up.
Quote from: ohgood on February 24, 2011, 06:21:11 AM
if u do go for a drz, get an S, not an SM. more power, better suspension, and the wheels won't suck for dirty riding. ... something I've learned over the last summer. the E drz has the most power, but not streetable legally in some places. 2 cents :-)
It's definitely gotta be an SM. I may get off road on a random occasion, but it'll be rare. I live in the city so it's much more likely to see me riding down some steps and jumping over curbs than hopping over some logs and running down dirt trails. I heard the SM has the forks from the RMZ, does the S have the same ones? Even if the suspension on the S is better it wouldn't be set up for the road.
Nope, the S has standard forks...the SM has the inverted and 17" rims, better brakes and taller gearing...much better for the city dweller... :thumb:
I always liked the XB9S and the XB12S, but they are too small...wish Buell had made bikes for 6 footers...naked bikes I'm talking, not the Ulyses...never was much for the SS bikes, so this new "toy" does nothing for me...
Still pyning for the MT-01...damn budget constraints... ;)
Later.
Oooh, yeah it's gotta have the inverted forks. I've always loved them, and now that I have a bike with them, I'll never go back haha. Plus I've never really done stoppies, but I'm pretty sure if I have a supermoto I'll do them all the time, so the better front brakes are a big plus. :thumb:
They're definitely not the best size for tall guys. There are plenty of guys on the forum who are 6'0-6'5 who love theirs, but I'm 5'8 and think it's perfectly suited to my size. When I bought it, it was the lowered SCG version and I thought it was even too short for me. Might've been good for guys who were used to cruisers with low seats, but I'm used to being tippy toed and that's what feels natural to me now. I've always hated the seats on the SS version. They don't flow well with the rest of the bike at all. some guys have put the S seats on the SS bikes, or you can also but the SS forks, rear shock, and side stand on a normal S since everything is interchangeable. The xb feels much smaller than the GS does.
I'm pretty sure the 1190RS is significantly bigger than the XBs though. Check out this picture of Erik tucked in on the race version. You'd swear he was only 5 foot. I actually have no idea how tall he is to compare, but he definitely makes the bike look full sized as opposed to the XBs, which are roughly the size of a 250cc GP bike.
(http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/EBR_2.jpg)
i had debaffled screaming eagles on my frankensportster ( jug transpolants to 1340) and briefly a supercharger THANK YOU HD SWAP MEETS !, yeah neighbors didnt like me either. quite civil when underway,. but a fast idle warmup she was LOUD
Even though the sound of an I4 doesn't really do much for me, one thing I can appreciate about them is if you keep the engine below 5-6k rpm, it just has a subtle growl to it. My bike makes a racket at idle, and only gets worse from there.
Quote from: tt_four on February 24, 2011, 09:11:07 PM
Even though the sound of an I4 doesn't really do much for me, one thing I can appreciate about them is if you keep the engine below 5-6k rpm, it just has a subtle growl to it. My bike makes a racket at idle, and only gets worse from there.
i am an HD man myself,BUT i like my I4's and 6's as well. that new bmw 6 is to die for ( youtube ftw lol ) but still a 41 hd with jockeyshift through the dragon, while its owner rode my gs was the trip of a lifetime
Quote
If it wasn't for the Monster, Ducati wouldn't even be around anymore. That bike carried Ducati through the 90s, and it's the same old style of air cooled 90some hp motor that seems weak compared to other bikes.
I would say that would go for a lot of makes. If it was not for the Ducati Monster I dare say there would be no SV650 or Buells. It is a bike that definitely inspired and set a benchmark for a true naked bike.
Like you said - a street bike made for riding on the streets not a race bike with registration. Could not agree with you more there and the other comment about Jap bikes looking bland even though they produce 170+ HP. I admire them but I feel no desire at all to own one.
Quote from: Twisted on February 24, 2011, 10:44:04 PM
Quote
If it wasn't for the Monster, Ducati wouldn't even be around anymore. That bike carried Ducati through the 90s, and it's the same old style of air cooled 90some hp motor that seems weak compared to other bikes.
I would say that would go for a lot of makes. If it was not for the Ducati Monster I dare say there would be no SV650 or Buells. It is a bike that definitely inspired and set a benchmark for a true naked bike.
Like you said - a street bike made for riding on the streets not a race bike with registration. Could not agree with you more there and the other comment about Jap bikes looking bland even though they produce 170+ HP. I admire them but I feel no desire at all to own one.
Buell was making bikes before the monster was around, but they were more focused towards racing. It's likely HD would've never been involved and we wouldn't have seen a lot of the tubers from the late 90s and the XB series. I think he would've skipped right over it and headed towards race versions of bikes like the 1125, since a lot of those designs are things he came up with back in the 80s. Like I said though, it's pretty common for a mom to drive past me when I'm parked in the target parking lot and ask me if my bike is a ducati, haha. It's more fun when they're 100 feet away loading their bags into their truck, I start my bike and they'll whip their heads around thinking they're gonna see some guy on a hog, and instead they see me. Definitely get some confused looks like a portion of their brain just exploded.
I think someday I'll buy a japanese I4 sportbike. Either a gsxr750 or something like the 03-04 zx10r, but I'm pretty sure I'll just ride it for a season to see how stupid fast it is, then move on. I could potentially keep the 750 around for a few years, but I'm pretty sure a 1000 would just be too ridiculous. They're good at what they do, but what they do is go from 70mph to 170mph extremely fast. All my rides are between 0-70mph, which is what my bike does extremely well. That triumph I had was an I4, and I felt like I was always looking for that next straight away so I could take off. Now I barely even accelerate once I'm out of the turn. I go into it carrying speed, accelerate out, and then just ride normal until I hit the next turn. The turns are exactly the same, it just saves you the WOT and slamming onto the brakes when you see the next turn. It makes you feel a lot more in control, and you're not always sitting there frustrated because you're stuck behind a car going 33mph when you want to be going 75mph. One of those concepts you never even consider when you're 20 haha.
Yeah, maturity has it's perks...and that is how I ride too...pace riding is more fun for me, and doesn't attract the unwanted attention of th guys with the "blinky lights" on the roof...or behind the glass and grill if you are unlucky enough to be caught by a gray one... :police:
I try to keep a steady pace and ride within 10% of the limit to not attract attention to myself... :cheers:
Later.
It was really weird that I never even thought about the concept before. When I was younger and had both my ninja 250 and then my Triumph I just rode everywhere as fast as I could. Every turn I came out of was full throttle and as fast as I could get to the next turn, passing anyone that was in the way and slamming on the gas as late as I could into the next turn. I took a break from riding for a few years, came back and was a bit more relaxed, but the first time I went out and rode with one of my other friends we'd ride the turns the same as I used to, accelerate out, but then once you were upright we'd just let off the gas and ride to the next one. It just made so much sense, and I feel bad that I was never patient enough to think about it before haha.
I do pretty good of not attracting attention, I avoid the highway like the plague and do my best to avoid normal roads where the cops would be anyway. I used to use my bike for daily transportation so I spent a lot more time on opens roads where you're likely to get pulled over. 90% of my riding now is just joy rides, so it's easy to stick to areas where I'm not likely to get in trouble. 1 year and a few thousand miles back and not even any close calls with cops!
Oh yea a GS is invisible to cops, you gotta be doing really stupid sheite like riding on the shoulder, or well over 20 clicks over the limit - can the gs even go that fast on highways ? ... I've heard the other thing that cops dont even see is old school R beemer bikes ... sorta screams Geezer ...
Anyway GS is about as non descript as a bike gets I'd say.
Cool.
Buddha.
Supermotos are pretty hassle free as well! They look like dual sports to the general public, and no one is concerned with people on dual sports.
Photo radar doesn't care what you are riding...got a picture of me on my GS to prove it...11kph over (7mph), that sucked...cost me $100...bleh...
Later.
haha, we don't have any of that business here yet. Sorry about your luck though!
Quote from: madjak30 on February 25, 2011, 09:19:20 PM
Photo radar doesn't care what you are riding...got a picture of me on my GS to prove it...11kph over (7mph), that sucked...cost me $100...bleh...
Later.
get a plate diffuser. ;) tag is 100% visible from behind. where it matters, but blurry from either side
Eh, mythbusters did a show on weather or not those worked and the traffic camera caught all forms of it. I've been pulled over twice on Flick once I was riding home from my pain management docs appointment looked like it was about to rain and I didn't have my jacket on. What saved me is that I had a memorial T-shirt on of an officer I worked with that was killed in the line of duty. Guess he was watching out for me that day got me out of a ticket. The second time I was pulled over was complete :bs: Said they were checking for stolen bikes gave me a hard time then my wallet disappeared. Went to the dept the next day to see if I could recover it somehow which is when I found out that my grey/black bike had been given a warning for improper passing. Was a two lane road where there was no place to pass needless to say I was pissed. And I don't know of many grey/black gs500F I do know Flick isn't that color!
Mary
true IF its shot from behind it will. and in some locales theyre illegal, i know when i lived in places with a camera at intersections, if i knew i was going to bust it, yes i know a no no. id smack the brakes, would blur pic. just enough.
If Erik Buell played for another team I think his career would be even better. I think Erik Buell is one of the great designers of our age. My admiration for Buell makes me view H-D in a more negative light than I would otherwise. They helped him get started in his career, but then hindered him for a generation and still are.
H-D should have forced H-D dealers to sell and service Buells with a smile or lose the right to sell H-D forever. They should have sent spy "customers" to go around to dealerships and shop for a Buell and report back to corporate what happened. What's the worst thing that could have happened? People buy Buells by the ton and the old iron horse dies a slow death while dealer sales remain steady or grow. The pushrod would disappear as the V-rod engine is incorporated and modified into Buell designs. America would be making bikes as good as can be found anywhere. How awful. And some people wonder why some of us view H-D dealers as a bunch of heavy-handed goons.
Then again, Buell is a master at overcoming obstacles. With no obstacles in front of him it could blow his mind and he might not know what to do!
The V-Rod engine wouldn't phase anything out...and it wasn't Harley Davidson that prevented dealers from catering to Buell. HD Dealerships are privately owned franchises. When it boils down to it, people didn't buy the Buells in droves because they didn't want it. "Interesting" sportbikes never last long.
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on February 25, 2011, 11:15:30 PM
Quote from: madjak30 on February 25, 2011, 09:19:20 PM
Photo radar doesn't care what you are riding...got a picture of me on my GS to prove it...11kph over (7mph), that sucked...cost me $100...bleh...
Later.
get a plate diffuser. ;) tag is 100% visible from behind. where it matters, but blurry from either side
Naa, I normally don't speed...I got busted twice in September, both were construction zones that there were no workers present...I always thought the construction zone is only in effect when workers were present...apparently not...the bike ticket was 61kph in a 60kph zone, but construction zone speed was 50kph (I guess the fines just don't double when there are no workers present??)...the other was basically the same thing except in my truck in a different construction zone...a week later...another $110 (was going a little faster...maybe 15 over construction speed?) The tickets showed up in my mailbox in the first week of November...gotta luv it...$200 lesson on contruction speed zones... :embarrassed:
Later.