I wanted to write this as a general reply to people who bash Harleys. Not from this site but just overall. While they may not be the most perfectly engineered bikes out there (is there any bike that is?) ive seen many bikes older then me (24) that still run fine when a competent person maintains it. My dad has owned them, and I will own one in the future.
Yes, Harleys have reputation for breaking down. Look at it this way, most motorcycle owner are gear heads at heart. Im sure most of us fall into this category. When it comes to my GS i would say of the 100% of joy it brings me 60% is riding and 40% is just working on it, maintaining it and tinkering. We all love to work on our bikes, thats a fact. What fun would it be if it always worked and we never got to tear it apart, see how things work, get out hands dirty, re-build a carb/ engine/ tranny.
With that said, so maybe Harleys have a few more problems than other bikes, but its just part of the joy of owning a machine. Getting to work on it. We all love too, so while some see a Harley breaking down as a nuisance or flaw, the owner just likes the excuse to go into the garage and get to work. Also, as i mentioned before, HDs are like all other bikes. Treat them well and they will work perfectly. One day I hope to own a nice chopped down sporty to tinker on.
Tom
Quote from: Twism86 on February 23, 2011, 08:45:45 AM
most motorcycle owner are gear heads at heart.
NO. And that's the whole problem. HD dumped the gearhead/grease monkey long time ago and have got in bed with Lawyers, accountants, doctors and other wealthy wanna be types.
That's not harley's. At one time all motorcycle owners were basically gear heads...they had to be. You had to know how to work on it. Sometime in late 80's they started making bikes so expensive that only Lawyers, accountants, doctors and other wealthy wanna be types could reasonably jump out and buy new ones. Sure there's still some inexpensive bikes out there...I believe there's a thread now called "ouch to the max" that has a video of their owners.
All the gear heads and such that the mfg's had back in the day still own the bikes they had back in the day.
Maybe Harley owners, (like other manufacturer owners) feel that bike just "fits" them. You know what I'm talking about. When you swing your leg over and you're like, "damn, I could get used to this". Then, you take it out on that demo ride and you can't stop grinning from ear to ear for a week afterwards. It should be about "the ride" not "what you ride". I've personally taken two harleys on demo rides. Both 1200 sportsters. One a custom and the other a low. I liked the seat height and such on the low but I liked the pegs and how I sat on the custom. The biggest thing, I absolutely loved every minute I was on both of those bikes. Little tears welled up upon returning them to their dealerships. This should be what motorcycle ownership is about.
I don't like harley's for the price of what you are getting and the meat head attitude of some of the owners. That aside I've ridden my mates quite a number of times, just for some variety. To me a cruiser sitting position is a little awkward.
IMO, the real beauty of not having a Harley is that I have 5 motorcycles in my garage right now. And the sum of all 5 still adds up to the cost of the cheapest Harley. Granted, only 3 run but it's because I'm tinkering with the others.
My brother in law has a V-Rod and when it breaks down during riding season he is just screwed.
I don't think I really hear about too many people hating the actual bikes. Granted with today's technology the bikes are heavy, slow, overpriced, and covered in way too much chrome and shimmer paint, but there's a bike for everybody, so that much is just whatever. I can't pick on them for the low HP numbers because I love Buells, and they have pretty low HP numbers compared to most other 1000cc sportbikes, and my next bike is gonna be a supermoto, and a DRZsm only has about 35hp.
I think the general distaste comes from 2 things. People love bikes for what they are, the passion of smallere companies, technology of japanese companies, whatever it is. HD doesn't really have anything like that. They just have a bunch of the same old bikes with attention grabbing paint jobs, and their logos plastered on EVERYTHING. They're no longer a motorcycle company, they're just an advertising and marketing company that sells shirts, leather jackets, motorcycles, and key chains.
2nd is some of the riders. You've got jerks on any kind of bikes. I'm not gonna pretend like there isn't a huge crowd of snotty kids on gsxrs, cocky mid-life crisisers on liter bikes trying to keep up with the snotty kids, and whatever other group you want to pick on, but it's pretty common to see guys on harleys that hate all of them. you're not a man if your bike doesn't weigh 700lbs, grumble with an offset twin crankshaft rotation and hd stamped on everything. They don't care whether it's a guy on a sportbike, japanese cruiser, even a HD sportster. It seems like the entire motorcycle community can be broken down into 2 groups..... kids, old people, sportbikes, cruisers, standards, naked bikes, stuntbikes, supermotos, dirtbikes, and then one other group of angry HD riders who hate everyone else in the other bike. Again, I'm not saying all people are like that, there's just enough to build up a reputation, and that's what I think puts people off, not the actual bikes.
and just for the record, this is the kind of junk I'm talking about. Just google "harley davidson merchandise", it's really just kind of insulting.
(http://www.nestparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/harley-lamp-300x300.jpg)
(http://harley-accessories.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/harley-davidson-merchandise-300x202.jpg)
(http://www.jl-harley.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/hd-merchandise/pet-products/harley-davidson-pet-products/2040-1-eng-US/Harley-Davidson-Pet-Products_large.jpg)
(http://www.roadwarriorcafe.com/knife.gif)
(http://www.harleydavidsonmerchandise.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/51OkI+reMQL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
(http://rayprice.com/images/merchandise2.gif)
(http://shop.docsharleydavidson.com/ProductImages/watches/B11E047.jpg)
(http://rayprice.com/images/jostens-01.gif)
Dream Capsule?!?!
(http://www.jl-harley.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/hd-merchandise/gifts-collectibles/harley-davidson-dream-capsule/24159-1-eng-US/Harley-Davidson-Dream-Capsule_large.jpg)
(http://cf.mp-cdn.net/f7/2a/6c2f1650303acf0aa20d187bd354.jpg)
(http://cf.mp-cdn.net/64/a8/1dba3698f198372b37bd32478acc.jpg)
Like I said, insulting to the motorcycle community in general. Google "gsxr merchandise" and see what you find. Big shock, it's actually motorcycle stuff...
Quote from: tt_four on February 23, 2011, 07:24:17 PM
I don't think I really hear about too many people hating the actual bikes. Granted with today's technology the bikes are heavy, slow, overpriced, and covered in way too much chrome and shimmer paint, but there's a bike for everybody, so that much is just whatever. I can't pick on them for the low HP numbers because I love Buells, and they have pretty low HP numbers compared to most other 1000cc sportbikes, and my next bike is gonna be a supermoto, and a DRZsm only has about 35hp.
I think the general distaste comes from 2 things. People love bikes for what they are, the passion of smallere companies, technology of japanese companies, whatever it is. HD doesn't really have anything like that. They just have a bunch of the same old bikes with attention grabbing paint jobs, and their logos plastered on EVERYTHING. They're no longer a motorcycle company, they're just an advertising and marketing company that sells shirts, leather jackets, motorcycles, and key chains.
2nd is some of the riders. You've got jerks on any kind of bikes. I'm not gonna pretend like there isn't a huge crowd of snotty kids on gsxrs, cocky mid-life crisisers on liter bikes trying to keep up with the snotty kids, and whatever other group you want to pick on, but it's pretty common to see guys on harleys that hate all of them. you're not a man if your bike doesn't weigh 700lbs, grumble with an offset twin crankshaft rotation and hd stamped on everything. They don't care whether it's a guy on a sportbike, japanese cruiser, even a HD sportster. It seems like the entire motorcycle community can be broken down into 2 groups..... kids, old people, sportbikes, cruisers, standards, naked bikes, stuntbikes, supermotos, dirtbikes, and then one other group of angry HD riders who hate everyone else in the other bike. Again, I'm not saying all people are like that, there's just enough to build up a reputation, and that's what I think puts people off, not the actual bikes.
mid part of your post, i see suzuki doing the same thing. in their dealerships. ;). harleys fuckup came when they sold to AMF. turned the MoCo over to a bunch of unions and do it as cheap as possible corp types. and quality suffered. ive overhauled quite a few hd's, i get more attitude however from non hd riders. i.e. those that ride other makes wonder why?, i also get more waves from hd riders vs other makes. again i wonder why?
Sometimes they build their own accessories ( Real HD Golf cart..custom seats and top...I (with help) built the top...coworkers did the seat- a few years ago..).
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/JWhite923/th_S6000443a.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/JWhite923/?action=view¤t=S6000443a.jpg)(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/JWhite923/th_Friday11-17006a.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/JWhite923/?action=view¤t=Friday11-17006a.jpg)(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/JWhite923/th_cart006a.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/JWhite923/?action=view¤t=cart006a.jpg)(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/JWhite923/th_cart003a.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/JWhite923/?action=view¤t=cart003a.jpg)(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/JWhite923/th_cart002a.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/JWhite923/?action=view¤t=cart002a.jpg)(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/JWhite923/th_cart001a.jpg) (http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d123/JWhite923/?action=view¤t=cart001a.jpg)
I've seen pink Harley Davidson CEILING FANS....That's where they make all the money-from the other crap ...not with the bikes.
There are a few older harleys I'd like to have... maybe an older Electra Glide (think old police bikes)...
My best friend has a full dresser... it fits him (physically)...If a GoldWing fit him he'd have one of them...but it's just too "tight"...
Ride what you like.
i did help a guy build a golf cart using a tc88b ( thats teh engine with the counterbalancer installed. the twincam 88)
I want an HD puppy.
Quote from: ver4 on February 23, 2011, 08:30:10 PM
I want an HD puppy.
Til the genetic engineers come through.... here ya go :
http://www.kooldawgtees.com/images/DOG_MOTORCYCLE_JACKET_PINK.jpg
So now it's the fact that they sell merchandise with their logo on it being the reason people hate/bash them? Is it jealousy that say, suzuki doesn't make a pool table with their logo on it? :P
Quote from: jserio on February 23, 2011, 09:30:59 PM
So now it's the fact that they sell merchandise with their logo on it being the reason people hate/bash them? Is it jealousy that say, suzuki doesn't make a pool table with their logo on it? :P
or jackets, keychains, bike covers, prolly toilet paper too :icon_razz:
Quote from: jserio on February 23, 2011, 09:30:59 PM
So now it's the fact that they sell merchandise with their logo on it being the reason people hate/bash them? Is it jealousy that say, suzuki doesn't make a pool table with their logo on it? :P
Oh not quite, however how many times do you hear me bash suzuki ... not just for the gs, but also for the sv, savage and other bikes. Some I never even own, or will ever own - like the gladius.
I think its just that we dont like to be thought of as Idiots who cant tell the difference between aluminum and steel and which is better for the frame. HD does that as a matter of course, and the meat heads that own them love it. The dealers are way worse ... its a bike shop dammit, not a 5 star hotel. Suzuki seems to do it just by accident ... as long as we dont see too many more gladius type bait and switch crap we are good.
BTW we are the segment of the user population both HD and suzuki would love to get rid of ... Cos we mostly buy used, maintain and use it forever and make and mod our own parts or junkyard them, and we never stop talking about it, especially the bad. Its usually like, man what a POS this side cover is, the sticker fell off today and there is big honking hole there. Or This POS tank is rusting ... how to coat it ? There never is any inclination to go to the "dealer" and buy the replacement part. On any HD site, the discussion is all about being hands on. And giving you keys to the service department using your own hands is hands on by their definition.
Cool.
Buddha.
Buddha, you got me thinking and I just realized: the GR650 that I am rebuilding wont say Suzuki any where on it (except on the neck of course). The tank badges have been shaved and filled, side covers have been ground off and polished, and eventually I plan on swapping the mag wheels for spoked wheels. Guess I don't want anybody to say "nice Zook"......
Okay, the shirts-mugs-caps-leathers-etc I understand...but ear rings & pool tables? They must have taken some marketing courses from Starbucks (what do you mean they sell coffee??)
I'm in Harley's target demographic (decent income level and in my 40's), but they don't appeal to me (except the V-rod line)...if I was to buy American Iron, it would say Victory by Polaris on it... :icon_mrgreen:...I shouldn't be that hard on them...the XR1200 isn't bad, but the headlight...where did they find that pancake?
My biggest problem with them is the price...I'm a cheap bugger...I don't see why I would spend $15,000-$20,000 on a bike when you can get bikes like the Star Styker, the Honda VT1300C Sabre and the Suzuki Boulevard M90 for $11,000-$13,000 (pricing is Canadian market)...they are more reliable, have more style (to my eyes) and are cheaper to insure...although I'm more of a standard guy so I lean towards the MT-01, Z1000, CB1000 or the B-King...
I guess really they are aiming a little higher than myself, since they want guys that don't think their pricing is out of touch and will bring it to the dealer for servicing...oh yeah, and will upgrade every couple of years...trading in their perfectly good bike with all the extras added to start again...they are just not the everyday man's bike anymore...but they do sound cool!!...as long as you don't put straight pipes on them, hate the crackle...
Later.
LMFAO and agreeing on the gladius WTFH was that thing. or that HUGE ass bike BRIEFLY made by honda? had that weid front end? was a fun ride, but meh too pricy. glad that HD holds its value, artificially or whatever it does. although our beloved gisser, holds its value well too. you can USUALLY sell @ a profit
I just don't get why some riders seem to feel the need to bash some else's choice for what they chose to ride. That goes for both sides, cruisers or sportbikes. If I don't like a bike, I won't buy it. I won't tell people not to buy it simply because I don't like it and bash them for buying it if they like it.
Quote from: jserio on February 24, 2011, 08:51:22 PM
I just don't get why some riders seem to feel the need to bash some else's choice for what they chose to ride....
Quote from: tt_four on February 23, 2011, 07:24:17 PM
I don't think I really hear about too many people hating the actual bikes....
I think the general distaste comes from 2 things...... They're no longer a motorcycle company, they're just an advertising and marketing company that sells shirts, leather jackets, motorcycles, and key chains.
2nd is some of the riders....
The bikes are definitely the butt of some jokes, and that happens with anything. Hopefully peoples poor self esteem doesn't make them push it took far with giving other people a hard time. Again though, I don't really think it's the
bikes that people are that opposed to, it's just the mandatory selling of your soul that comes with owning one.
I wouldn't sell my soul for one, but if I got a good deal, I'd buy one.
Well, never thought I'd own a Harley (I'm too rough on stuff as the BF says has to be Mary proof) like I dropped Flick the first day I owned him. It was in the subdivision and didn't hurt him but I'm sure he hasn't forgotten jealous little batard. But, now we are working on a 58 panhead HD. It's pissing oil all over the garage so I guess that makes it genuine :thumb: We want to restore it to stock so it most def will be a labor of love. But, I don't think you will see me with an HD logo tat anytime soon. BTW anyone got any of them Harley bolts we seem to be missing a few :flipoff:
Mary
Bad styling. Sure I'll get a harley first. Then I'll get a hot-rod buggy like the Munsters used to drive. Maybe I'll start wearing a cape.
which ones mary?
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on February 24, 2011, 09:31:33 PMBTW anyone got any of them Harley bolts we seem to be missing a few :flipoff:
haha, my XB has a few of those in there. I remember looking at one the first time I pulled the front caliper off and was thinking "WTF, who stamps their logo into a bolt?!". I had to replace one of them, but I figured Home Depot was good enough, both companies start with H-D, and that's what's important, right??
I'm with Mad... I don't see the Value For Money in a HD - Suzuki make much more affordable cruisers. Additionally, I'm not really that big on the overall look of them. My general dislike though comes not from the bike, but the hubris from most of those who ride them. Sheesh man, a friggin nod of the head or small arm wave won't kill 'em. But "no"... you're not riding the right type of brand to be acknowledged. Screw that.
For seating... cruisers do not suit my biomechanics. Sore back after less than 10 minutes - though I didn't get this on a brief 25 minute stint on a Triumph America.
As for merchandising... KTM doesn't do too bad either. KTM flipflops, KTM "balance bike" WTF? All I want is a diecast Naked GS500 - is that so much to ask for?
Michael
Quote from: mister on February 25, 2011, 01:36:51 PM
As for merchandising... KTM doesn't do too bad either. KTM flipflops, KTM "balance bike" WTF? All I want is a diecast Naked GS500 - is that so much to ask for?
Michael
Haha, well I can understand the balance bike. KTM makes a lot of little kids dirtbikes, so starting them on a KTM balance bike is a good transition to a KTM dirtbike, as far as marketing is concerned. Flipflops are a little much, but I guess MX boots are pretty hefty. I can see an MXer putting on some flipflops for the drive out to their trails. When I start seeing KTM dish towels and KTM monopoly, we'll know they're getting a little out of hand.
I just wanted to add my uuuuhhh 2 cents to the HD merchandising discussion....
(http://www.sportsfancreations.com/images/thumbs/harleydavidson40000.jpg)
That said, I wouldn't mind a FI sporty 1200, but even used they're ridiculously priced...
Quote from: PachmanP on February 25, 2011, 07:57:46 PM
I just wanted to add my uuuuhhh 2 cents to the HD merchandising discussion....
(http://www.sportsfancreations.com/images/thumbs/harleydavidson40000.jpg)
That said, I wouldn't mind a FI sporty 1200, but even used they're ridiculously priced...
Hey Pachman are those yours :woohoo:
Mary
Quote from: PachmanP on February 25, 2011, 07:57:46 PM
I just wanted to add my uuuuhhh 2 cents to the HD merchandising discussion....
(http://www.sportsfancreations.com/images/thumbs/harleydavidson40000.jpg)
That said, I wouldn't mind a FI sporty 1200, but even used they're ridiculously priced...
theres one here, priced WELL below kbb. look on youtube, under my name here, find a video a tribute video called gunnys ride, in that theres a white sporty 1200 i rode, it was an FI, and is for sale here locally. ( www.autocadeinc.com )
what's your definition of "reasonably priced"? varies from person to person.
theres a 1200fi here locally south of 6k. has 1100 miles on it ive rode that bike too. nice exhaust as well
they just sold this one. theres another one there ill get info on.
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/183053_179512592093464_141758092535581_451398_4813446_n.jpg)
After '08 they are all FI if i'm not mistaken.
Quote from: jserio on February 26, 2011, 12:00:51 AM
After '08 they are all FI if i'm not mistaken.
only thign i dislike about FI is this. cannot even f%$k with teh idle . theres 2 plugs under a cover on left hand side. 1 wiht a yellow ribbing on it. another with different colouring. that being said only way to change it is to plug one of those into harleys computer. or get a power commander ;) or bypass it lol. aka hacking your own bike in other words. btw know you can easily hotwaire a bike using only a paperclip? keep that in mind and lock the fucker at night
unofficial motto:
since 1903, the worlds greatest vibrator. ( maybe why the women like em?, sorry i had too. no offense intended) O0 O0
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on February 26, 2011, 12:10:18 AM
only thign i dislike about FI is this. cannot even f%$k with teh idle .
That's not a FI problem, that's just another HD problem. Most FI still have an idle adjuster, even my XB that everyone considers to be a Harley has one. I'm surprised HD didn't ban Erik from putting an idle adjuster on his bikes too.
Harleys are no longer unreliable. They are made much better these days. They got a lot better after 1984. Having said that, to answer your question, if I'm in a bad mood I'd say guys like Harleys because they're big, fat, and slow, just like them. When I'm in a good mood I'd say they want something American that lasts. They hate the constant outsourcing of jobs away from the United States. Both are true.
As for me and my tastes, I would love a V-rod that's more standard, not a boulevard cruiser. I'm so sick of the boulevard cruiser thing I can't even put it into words. I won't even get into their very successful marketing strategy that has rewarded them handsomely, catering to biker wannabees who work as accountants, dentists, physical therapists, et al. I need a bike that has pegs below the seat, where they belong, so I can ride comfortably for more than 50 miles. If Harley ever hears me I'd get one in a New York second, but they have shown me for too long that they don't care that I exist, so I say screw 'em at this point. They ALMOST have it at the present time. Gimme an XR 1200 with a V-rod engine. Now THAT'S A BIKE!! I was born in 1962 and no one should be using pushrods at this point in internal combustion history. Harley's marriage to the pushrod baffles me to this day.
I'll try one more time... HEY HARLEY!! PUSHRODS SUCK!!! GET RID OF 'EM!!!
Not having much bike engine knowledge I'm going to make a statement that should be taken with a grain of salt. Feel free to correct if I'm wrong. I would say that the reason they still used pushrods is to keep the Harley sound unique. Changing from the pushrod would change this no? :dunno_white:
Since, 1972 all Harley Front ends are made by Showa of Japan (a Honda owned company) at their S. Korean plant. Wiring and electronics are made in Mexico, the engines and Aluminum products, transmission cases, wheels etc. are made in a Harley Davidson owned 750,000 sq ft facility in San Paulo Brazil (due to labor costs, huge tax breaks and incentives). Final Machining is done partially in Mexico, partially here. For many years now all of their chrome plating is done in Canada (thanks EPA). They are about to start assembling the rollers of several models in India...the plant opens this year.
I'm sure they are assembled in the good ol USA though. The V-Rod is a great bike. Definitely one of my favorite Harleys. But it's frowned upon by some Harley owners (much like Buel) because Porche designed it.
I sat on a V-Rod in the showroom here locally. Even for a short statured fellow like myself, I was suprised at how comfortable the ergonomice were. Reach to the pegs didn't seem that bad, nor the reach to the bars either.
Quote from: Big Rich on February 26, 2011, 10:41:50 PM
I'm sure they are assembled in the good ol USA though. The V-Rod is a great bike. Definitely one of my favorite Harleys. But it's frowned upon by some Harley owners (much like Buel) because Porche designed it.
Erik Buell also put a ton of work into that motor too, so if some HD riders don't like Buell, that's just a 2nd reason not to like the vrod motor.
Quote from: jserio on February 26, 2011, 10:31:50 PM
I would say that the reason they still used pushrods is to keep the Harley sound unique. Changing from the pushrod would change this no? :dunno_white:
Not saying it's the reason they keep them, but the XBs also have pushrods and even if they're an old setup, I'm perfectly willing to accept it for the self adjusting valves. Not the checking valves is the worst thing in the world, but I'm really happy I'm never gonna have to do it on that bike.
I'm not sure how much the pushrods affect the sound. The difference between the Harley vtwin and japanese twins is the offset firing pattern. On the gs you hear the motor going "bang(1)-----bang(2)-----bang(1)-----bang(2)-----bang(1)", but on HDs you're hearing the engine go "bang(1)---bang(2)-------bang(1)---bang(2)-------bang(1)---bang(2)". I can't say for sure, but I don't think it's really a difference of how the valves are being pressed.
The biggest difference between overhead cams and pushrods is less moving parts, so it is easier to build an engine that will rev higher...it would have no impact on the sound of the engine, all the cam does is let the fuel and air in, and the exhaust out by openning and closing the valves...the sound is produced by the explosion within the compression chamber...the sound is dictated by the timing of the explosion and the size of the explosion (that's why big twins shake the earth, and a 250cc twin has similar sound but is not quite as deep)..."potato-potato" is engineered in vs the more "putt-putt" sound from 90 deg twin like the SV650, or Ducati's...or even our GS500s.
Later.
Quote from: madjak30 on February 27, 2011, 11:15:53 AM
The biggest difference between overhead cams and pushrods is less moving parts, so it is easier to build an engine that will rev higher...
Much less reciprocating mass is what allows an overhead cam setup to work faster. Fewer parts is a bonus. The venerable H-D V-twin has limited rpm range not only for that reason, but also the single-pin crankshaft (both connecting rods driven from the same journal) and small V-angle. This is what H-D claims to give their engines their unique sound. Technically they're correct, but at the same time there is really no sound basis for it. The problem is, human ears can't tell the subtle difference in sound between a V-twin with one journal and one with two, or a V-twin with an acute V-angle and one that's 90 degrees or more. I have witnessed Harley owners hanging outside the bar while others ride away on late model Japanese cruisers and they say "Damn, they sound just like a Harley!"
Everyone else modernized their engines a generation or more ago. Harley is just being stubborn at this point. They should have done the job completely in 1985, rather than halfway. But hey, they can make-up for it and then some with H-D ladies' panties, right?
Stop knocking pushrod gents. They are extremely rugged engines when it comes to field work. (Not that a HD or a jap sports bike goes anywhere near the field.) There is a reason most engines in power plants that don't care about loudness go with pushrod set ups. They just keep going and going with poor maintenance. If you look at history pushrod and ohc were invented not long after each other back around 1900. Not sure the year so I'm going to say around.
That said OHC makes for a smoother power delivery, quieter, more rev ability as someone also said. I prefer OHC but I still love the twin turbo OHV engine sitting in my 260Z.
Greetings Yamahonkawazuki ... a kindred spirit!
I'm not so much a fan of all Harleys, but I really like Sportsters!
I had one GS500 and I'm on my 2nd Sportster. If I have too much excess cash sometime I might add an SV650.
My Sportster has been totally reliable, comfortable, and fast enough to walk away from the mightiest GS500 :tongue2:
Yes the exhaust pipes are chrome and the handlebars, but again if too much money ever shows up there's a black set of headers and handlebars I'd like. O0
I do retain some fond memories of my GS though ... just enough that I'd rather have a new 250 Ninja if I wanted to add a little bike.
So do not fear the Harleys, at least the Sportsters. Try one, they aren't that heavy or expensive. :cheers:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/ed_in_az/2showlow2.jpg)
2005XL 883 to 1200 conversion, Hi Comp Pistons, .497 cams, SE intake and exhaust, LePera Maverick 2up seat, Progressive Suspension
welcome back !!
Thanks, Yama. I was surfing and decided to check in. :cheers:
Having never ridden a GS, I can't compare the power the make to the HD Sporties. However, I can say that on my last demo ride, I put around 60 miles on that 1200 Low. There came a time when I was pretty much just out in open space on the highway and was coming up on a truck. I didn't wish to stay behind him nor did I want to ride too close to him at the side either. Bad enough feeling so tiny in the car compared to the big guys let alone out on a bike. Anyhow, checking to see the lane was clear I moved over and gave the throttle a little twist. No trouble getting around the truck. The engine never sounded as if I was beating on it. So, I would say that they make more than enough power for just about anybody. I won't say they are cheaper than the GS(or any other bike) because it would be a flat out lie. However, when the funds are available, I may very well opt for one. To each his own. :thumb:
Quote from: jserio on February 28, 2011, 11:17:22 AM
Having never ridden a GS,
WHAT?!!?
Haha, you don't expect to hear that here with 3000 posts. You just like us that much?
Oh well no GS and 3K posts ... well for the last 10K I've not had a gs. But however, I do have several piles of parts that can be eventually coaxed into pretending they are a GS.
BTW I was just thinking about the original topic, and what is IMHO real sad is when these Harley Idiots have bike payments that rival their house payments and they refer to it as a person ... I'm like What, who is "jessica" and they go oh, its my bike ... OH OK ...
Cool.
Buddha.
I just love seeing Craigslist ads where someone bought a Harley, rode it for 10k miles...and now thinks it's still worth that they paid for it. :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: murf425 on February 28, 2011, 01:07:52 PM
I just love seeing Craigslist ads where someone bought a Harley, rode it for 10k miles...and now thinks it's still worth that they paid for it. :icon_rolleyes:
I saw one last fall where a doctor put a few thousand miles on his Sporty over a 5-year period. He still wanted six grand and said in the ad he wouldn't let anyone ride it first. I wrote him back and said "What's the problem? It's not a Vincent Black Shadow!"
Quote from: bill14224 on February 28, 2011, 02:57:41 PM
Quote from: murf425 on February 28, 2011, 01:07:52 PM
I just love seeing Craigslist ads where someone bought a Harley, rode it for 10k miles...and now thinks it's still worth that they paid for it. :icon_rolleyes:
I saw one last fall where a doctor put a few thousand miles on his Sporty over a 5-year period. He still wanted six grand and said in the ad he wouldn't let anyone ride it first. I wrote him back and said "What's the problem? It's not a Vincent Black Shadow!"
ehh i let people ride em, IF i hold $$ in hand. so if they wreck it, tehy wreck their bike not mine
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on February 28, 2011, 09:59:46 PM
Quote from: bill14224 on February 28, 2011, 02:57:41 PM
Quote from: murf425 on February 28, 2011, 01:07:52 PM
I just love seeing Craigslist ads where someone bought a Harley, rode it for 10k miles...and now thinks it's still worth that they paid for it. :icon_rolleyes:
I saw one last fall where a doctor put a few thousand miles on his Sporty over a 5-year period. He still wanted six grand and said in the ad he wouldn't let anyone ride it first. I wrote him back and said "What's the problem? It's not a Vincent Black Shadow!"
ehh i let people ride em, IF i hold $$ in hand. so if they wreck it, tehy wreck their bike not mine
And wouldn't you know, its happened 2 X to me. One clown, matter of fact from gstwin (was a lurker) bought an sv from me in 2006 and crashed on the test ride. I ask him before he rides if he knows how to ride, and he goes, I took the msf course. I said that doesn't answer the question. He paid me, and stupidly I let him ride anyway mainly because he is from the DC area where things were bound to be harder for him with tighter traffic and narrower streets.
Then one clown in houston crashes my seca on the test ride and leaves in an ambulance. Sadly I got stiffed then, but the damage is minimal, I ride it to work the next day.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on March 01, 2011, 06:08:38 AM
Then one clown in houston crashes my seca on the test ride and leaves in an ambulance. Sadly I got stiffed then, but the damage is minimal, I ride it to work the next day.
Cool.
Buddha.
LOL. The damage was minimal to the bike. So long to the dude taking an ambulance to his new home :)
Quote from: tt_four on February 28, 2011, 11:47:57 AM
Quote from: jserio on February 28, 2011, 11:17:22 AM
Having never ridden a GS,
WHAT?!!?
Haha, you don't expect to hear that here with 3000 posts. You just like us that much?
I do like it here actually. :) Honestly, I found this site a few years ago doing some research. Was looking for differences etc between the GS and the Kawi 500 at the time. I was thinking of purchasing one of the two at that time. Things didn't exactly work out on that end however I liked the board here so I just stuck around. They haven't run me off yet. :D
Quote from: plewis51 on March 01, 2011, 01:07:54 PM
Quote from: The Buddha on March 01, 2011, 06:08:38 AM
Then one clown in houston crashes my seca on the test ride and leaves in an ambulance. Sadly I got stiffed then, but the damage is minimal, I ride it to work the next day.
Cool.
Buddha.
LOL. The damage was minimal to the bike. So long to the dude taking an ambulance to his new home :)
Yup, his ignorance helped him get pinned under the bike.
Cool.
Buddha.
lol jserio hte ONLY one here, never having a gs, wants an HD :bowdown:, AND got a "custom title", AND not been run off. damn boys done it all :D
:whisper: Never said I didn't like the GS. Just thought I'd put that out there. :cool:
Quote from: jserio on March 01, 2011, 11:30:41 PM
:whisper: Never said I didn't like the GS. Just thought I'd put that out there. :cool:
oh i know :), heck im an hd liking person, but still teh gs holds a place in my heart and my garage for almost ever
The only Harley that has ever caught my eye is the Iron 883's. Love that matt black rat look - (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff62/icecreamhands/xl883n-bd.jpg?t=1299132296)
Having ridden my mates Street Bob and Fat Boy with 1800 (dunno how many inches that is for you merkins!) engine and stage 2 kit I was almost swayed to getting a HD when swapping my old 'blade RR4... until I started looking at prices!
There was no way I could afford anything more than a sportster, although I did see this:
(http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/files/2010_Harley-Davidson_Forty-Eight_48_Wallpaper%204.jpg)
Looks great but on seeing one in the flesh it was tiny, I'm 6'2" and not exactly slim - whereas the bob fitted me like a glove I was perched on the 48 like it was a mini bike (it's even smaller than the GS!)... add to that the tiny fuel tank (80mile range MAX) and the quite small engine and it just didn't make sense.
So I went and bought this instead!:
(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/35550_403175553338_572138338_4595584_189411_n.jpg)
I've just realised that i don't have a photo of the blueflame exhaust that it now wears though!
(http://www.harley-riders-guide.com/images/2010HARLEY-DAVIDSONXR1200.jpg) ive gotten my hands on one of these for a few minutes. i was not happy when i had to give it back lol
(http://image.hotbikeweb.com/f/9086592+w750+st0/0709_hbkp_21_z+harley_davidson+1971_xlcr.jpg) DROOL ! ! !
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on March 02, 2011, 05:07:31 AM
(http://www.harley-riders-guide.com/images/2010HARLEY-DAVIDSONXR1200.jpg) ive gotten my hands on one of these for a few minutes. i was not happy when i had to give it back lol
I don't mind the look of this one, but what is with the head light? Did they almost forget to put one on and just grabbed the first one they saw out of the parts bin?
Other than that, it is a nice bike...luv the sound of Harleys...as long as they don't have straight pipes...the crackle they get without baffling sounds like a bagged out piece of poop!!
Later.
Quote from: aygee on March 02, 2011, 05:01:08 AM
Looks great but on seeing one in the flesh it was tiny, I'm 6'2" and not exactly slim -
I definitely noticed that. When I had my Triumph speed four and I would park it in the garage next to my dads 883, it made his bike look miniature.
My friend was debating between buying one of those flat black sportsters off of his friend, or buying a triumph like I had. I was happy to let him pick until I found out he was gonna pay $8k for a used bike. That's more than the triumph he ended up getting cost new.
Well a HD sporty is comparable to the triumph twins - the america and what ever they are now, not to a speed 4 or a tiger. :cookoo: ...
BTW the triumph twin is my dream bike ... just as soon as I find one for 50 bucks.
Cool.
Buddha.
jak i traded the guy the light out of my spare parts box a slightly larger one, for his original. ive made plans to use the hd light for my next motorised bicycle build. ( unless im in the hospital first lol)
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on March 02, 2011, 08:43:44 PM
jak i traded the guy the light out of my spare parts box a slightly larger one, for his original. ive made plans to use the hd light for my next motorised bicycle build. ( unless im in the hospital first lol)
I would assume the electrical system on your bike is 6v. Can you hook up a 12v light and still get it to work well enough to see anything?? I would guess you could just swap the bulb in the light body?? I don't know much about this kind of stuff.
Quote from: The Buddha on March 02, 2011, 01:51:32 PM
Well a HD sporty is comparable to the triumph twins - the america and what ever they are now, not to a speed 4 or a tiger. :cookoo: ...
BTW the triumph twin is my dream bike ... just as soon as I find one for 50 bucks.
Cool.
Buddha.
I love these Buddha. If I had the money I would make room in my garage for one. I was this close >< to getting one a few months back.
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff62/icecreamhands/TRIUMPH-THRUXTON-2009-l.jpg?t=1299127944)
That 48 is a really good looking bike in person. I like it. The seat isn't all that great though. From what I've found out through research is that they didn't really build it to be a long ride cruiser type. More of a quick, rip around town kinda thing. Although, I would think that getting a more comfortable seat if you so chose wouldn't be that big of a deal.
I don't bash someone's choice to ride a cruiser, even though I think they're silly, but to me they are a completely different take on what motorcycling's about. I've only had the GS for a couple of months, but even so I'm a little embarrassed when I park it rear to kerb in the motorcycle bay in a line of bikes, knowing that all the the other riders are going to see the 3/4 inch wide chicken strips on my rear as they go back to their bikes. So I'd be pretty self conscious with a bike with 4 inches of ground clearance under the mufflers, bars at eye level and footboards that make it impossible to ever take your weight on your feet while riding. It's an admission that when you bought the thing, you'd resigned yourself to never really riding it. It's like going to the beach with water wings on, as an adult.
Each to their own, but I really don't feel like I'm on the same page as the cruiser riders, or even reading from the same hymn book.
The other thing that annoys me is the number of women who decide to take up riding, and because they're often shorter than men, they end up with something they like the look of and can actually flatfoot, which often means a cruiser. Then they spend their first few months of riding battling with a bike that doesn't do anything they want it to. There just aren't enough good entry level nakeds out there for short people.
Quote from: Cosimo_Zaretti on March 03, 2011, 03:28:51 AM
I don't bash someone's choice to ride a cruiser, even though I think they're silly, but to me they are a completely different take on what motorcycling's about.
So I'd be pretty self conscious with a bike with 4 inches of ground clearance under the mufflers, bars at eye level and footboards that make it impossible to ever take your weight on your feet while riding. It's an admission that when you bought the thing, you'd resigned yourself to never really riding it.
It's like going to the beach with water wings on, as an adult.
Cruisers are meant more for "boulevard cruising and bar hopping", not scraping pegs...I'm not a fan of the "bar hopper specials" either, but I do like cruisers...the sound of the engine, lots of leg room and the comfortable seat with wind in your face. Great for just taking it easy down a back road or hitting the highway...I'm just not used to having my feet in front of me, except when I'm relaxing in a chair watching a movie...hmmm
Quote from: Cosimo_Zaretti on March 03, 2011, 03:28:51 AM
The other thing that annoys me is the number of women who decide to take up riding, and because they're often shorter than men, they end up with something they like the look of and can actually flatfoot, which often means a cruiser. Then they spend their first few months of riding battling with a bike that doesn't do anything they want it to. There just aren't enough good entry level nakeds out there for short people.
I actually find the opposite is true...there are lots of bikes with a 30" seat height...the GS is one, the much poo-poo'd Gladius, the SV650, most sport bikes, all cruisers (haven't seen one with a seat height more than 28"), any scooter...taller riders are left with dual sports and BMWs...I'm not that tall 5'11 and my inseam is pretty average too @32", yet I feel too big for a lot of bikes...that is the main reason I want to "upgrade" from the GS, lack of leg room...
For me the Versys, V-Strom or cruisers seem to be best for my knees, but I prefer the look of a naked bike...MT-01...mmmmm...but it may not be in the cards for me...I may go for a cruiser...Demo days are coming soon, and then I will know...
Later.
Quote from: Twisted on March 02, 2011, 09:53:13 PM
Quote from: The Buddha on March 02, 2011, 01:51:32 PM
Well a HD sporty is comparable to the triumph twins - the america and what ever they are now, not to a speed 4 or a tiger. :cookoo: ...
BTW the triumph twin is my dream bike ... just as soon as I find one for 50 bucks.
Cool.
Buddha.
I love these Buddha. If I had the money I would make room in my garage for one. I was this close >< to getting one a few months back.
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff62/icecreamhands/TRIUMPH-THRUXTON-2009-l.jpg?t=1299127944)
You know what adds injury to insult ...
There is a guy who has a mint 05 thruxton ~30 miles from me, he wants to trade it for a sport bike, I have a mint SV1000 that would 100% float his boat. Except, I dont want a cafe racer, I want the cruiser. Sad huh. I like cafe's too, but want to get a cruiser to get my wife on the back ... else I'd be banging on his door right now.
Cool.
Buddha.
I'm 5'8, I could do with one or two more inches, but otherwise I think I fit pretty well on most sportbikes. I can't flatfoot at all, but I've actually become more on my toes than on my feet. When I got my last bike I could flatfoot with a slight bend in my knees and I absolutely hated it.
Quote from: The Buddha on March 03, 2011, 11:15:20 AM
Except, I dont want a cafe racer, I want the cruiser. Sad huh. I like cafe's too, but want to get a cruiser to get my wife on the back ...
All you've gotta do is pull off the seat cowl and put on some normal handlebars and you'd be set.
Quote from: tt_four on March 03, 2011, 12:08:08 PM
I'm 5'8, I could do with one or two more inches, but otherwise I think I fit pretty well on most sportbikes. I can't flatfoot at all, but I've actually become more on my toes than on my feet. When I got my last bike I could flatfoot with a slight bend in my knees and I absolutely hated it.
Quote from: The Buddha on March 03, 2011, 11:15:20 AM
Except, I dont want a cafe racer, I want the cruiser. Sad huh. I like cafe's too, but want to get a cruiser to get my wife on the back ...
All you've gotta do is pull off the seat cowl and put on some normal handlebars and you'd be set.
Hell no ... that bike is gorgeous as a cafe, I buy it, nothing is happening to it. The clip on's the tank, the seat cowl ... man is it cool. I'd rather admire it in pics, and leave it be so someone else can truly enjoy it, than mangle it after buying it.
Yea I've seen the pics of the fool that tried to "convert" a katana into a cruiser ... looked bloody awful.
Cool.
Buddha.
Okay Really? Is this counterintuitive :icon_question:
(http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr264/Toogoofy317/IMAG0063.jpg)
Mary
I don't know if I'm thirsty now or just itching for a ride. :icon_mrgreen:
Well, danged you can do both on your Harley and your harley beer! :thumb:
Mary
Quote from: aygee on March 02, 2011, 05:01:08 AM
1800 (dunno how many inches that is for you merkins!)
62 C.I. in one liter. So . . . .
1.8x62= 111.6 C.I.
Here's a Harley that I'd buy:
(http://thekneeslider.com/images/2009/10/off-road-sportster-2.jpg)
And another:
(http://thekneeslider.com/images/2009/10/off-road-sportster.jpg)
My buddy has a restored '62 Harley Hummer that I'd like to have too, if it wasn't nearly $5000 (I can't afford that right now, no matter what bike it was).
http://bellingham.craigslist.org/mcy/2232863703.html
ehh its a business like any other. if people will buy it , theyll produce and sell it.
i don't think anyone hates HD more than i. i would rather ride a tricycle. usually the guys on hogs are so fat that from behind it looks like they are on a unicycle
Sterotype much eh? So since you have an issue with the rider in question, it must translate to a hatred of the machine he/she choses to ride? :cookoo:
Quote from: jserio on March 08, 2011, 09:23:07 PM
Sterotype much eh? So since you have an issue with the rider in question, it must translate to a hatred of the machine he/she choses to ride? :cookoo:
typical liberal trolling it seems. he aint no skinny feller either lol
He said 'usually' haha.
I'm going to Daytona tomorrow I'm sure I will have lots of fodder for this thread!
Mary
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on March 09, 2011, 10:50:22 AM
I'm going to Daytona tomorrow I'm sure I will have lots of fodder for this thread!
Mary
Show off ... meanwhile we are freezing our butts off here with a 48 degree high ... WTF ... Where is the bloody global warming Al Bore promised us.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on March 09, 2011, 10:52:48 AM
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on March 09, 2011, 10:50:22 AM
I'm going to Daytona tomorrow I'm sure I will have lots of fodder for this thread!
Mary
Show off ... meanwhile we are freezing our butts off here with a 48 degree high ... WTF ... Where is the bloody global warming Al Bore promised us.
Cool.
Buddha.
:thumb: :thumb:
Except we are having highs of 30F here...it was still -20C (-4F) in the mornings...yeah...GLOBAL WARMING... :flipoff:...now they call it "Climate Change", I think they realize that no-one is buying into the "Global Warming" thing...
Hey...48F is 9C...quit whining and ride...wuss!! ;)
Later.
yeah it was man/woman driving their gass gizzling SUV at hte last ice age that ended it remember? thats what caused teh glaciers to retreat?, i know we arent innocent. but not entirely guilty either
Quote from: The Buddha on March 09, 2011, 10:52:48 AM
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on March 09, 2011, 10:50:22 AM
I'm going to Daytona tomorrow I'm sure I will have lots of fodder for this thread!
Mary
Show off ... meanwhile we are freezing our butts off here with a 48 degree high ... WTF ... Where is the bloody global warming Al Bore promised us.
Cool.
Buddha.
48°!!! We can only hope for such crazy talk, here! We're lucky to hit 40!
That's what I get for being of Swedish heritage & Minnesotan. Uff da! :embarrassed:
One thing about Harley that I know for sure is that they are not a forward thinking company.
By axeing Buell, they lost a customer in me forever.
Why I hate Harley is because they are not innovative, they are not creative, they are not trying to build better bikes.
jserio, I'm not sure how old you are, but you should know that they are losing market share among young adults like myself that don't buy bikes for image but rather to ride.
http://wallstreetpit.com/14965-harley-davidson-first-loss-in-16-years
Thats a report on how they posted a monster loss this past year. Some blame the recession, some blame Buell/Augusta, but I'd rather be a more realistic business man and blame their lack of foresight. They axed Buell before giving it a real go. The local franchise dealers never got behind the brand and thats just sad.
It shows they just want to sell you a bike with 1,000 page catalog rather than a Buell.
Harley sucks because they think their average motorcycle rider is a poser who is only interested in looks and a lifestyle. For the most part, they are right. But for others like myself, who are interested in the freedom attained from two wheels and the road, it smacks in the face of reason.
Kinda funny to hear the argument of "no foresight or innovation or creativity" on a forum for a bike that has stayed virtually unchanged for over two decades. ;)
Quote from: jserio on March 20, 2011, 11:33:14 AM
Kinda funny to hear the argument of "no foresight or innovation or creativity" on a forum for a bike that has stayed virtually unchanged for over two decades. ;)
Hey hey they put an oil cooler on it somewhere in the middle of those 2 decades haha
Quote from: NickyNumbers on March 20, 2011, 08:35:02 AM
They axed Buell before giving it a real go. The local franchise dealers never got behind the brand and thats just sad.
Haha I think they got tired of explaining why Erik was able to double the HP coming out of their sportster motors and they didn't even bother to try. They made the mistake of hiring one guy who was too good, and it made the thousands of other employees look retarded, so they had to can him.
Out of curiosity, if the Buells were such great machines, why didn't/couldn't they have had their own dealership network? Seems to me that the bikes themselves never really caught on enough with the majority of cyclist. I really don't see many of them around. :dunno_white:
Buells not being able to have their own dealerships had nothing to do with Buells. Harley kept a short leash on them, and unfortunately had absolutely NO idea how to manage a company making sportbikes. It was like watching a monkey try to walk a dog. They put a ton of restrictions on the bikes, and just about any time you hear someone say something like "I don't understand why people like Buells, what kind of bike has a......belt drive/air cooled twin/92hp/etc)", the answer was usually HD. The engines don't make a lot of hp, but Erik was the one who designed the motor for the Vrod and it was supposed to in the XB line. HD kept wanting the motor bigger and bigger so it looked better in a cruiser and eventually he had to give up on it for his bikes. Instead he modified the sportster motor(and did an amazing job considering what he was working with). Then he was going to put turbos on all the motors, that idea was eventually canned by HD, belt drive mandated by HD. HD dealerships forced to stock the bikes, which then got shoved into the back corner of the dealers where they were pretty much ignored and bad mouthed. Then HD complains about the lack of sales. It's like putting footballs on a shelf in the kitchen appliances section and expecting someone to actually find it sitting between the dishes and silverware.
without advertising directly. kinda like a woman pissed cause you dont know whats wrong :technical:
Love the look of this tt -
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BUELL-XB9R-WHITE-RACE-PIPE-SOUNDS-GREAT-900-HARLEY-LOOK-/180641944689?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item2a0f195471
It is hawt
QuoteHe's convinced that the company's current product mix already does an excellent job of reaching young people and has no plans to look for new ways to pursue them.
Cutting through the bullshit, it seems you can boil Harley's plan down to this: cut costs by streamlining production and lowering output, thereby alleviating dealers of stock they can't sell, then hope that the
loans carry the company through to a projected return of middle-class solvency and credit availability.
All this sounds startlingly similar to the business practices that got Harley into so much trouble in the first place. It'll continue to rely on the same demographic buying the same motorcycles and, since a large
proportion of those customers don't have enough money to buy either the bikes or the accessories, it'll continue to give loans to people that can't afford to repay them. It'll make those loans using money that it has, in turn, borrowed, often at a higher interest rate than what's being charged to customers. The company has presented no short-term plans to pursue the design of motorcycles with appeal outside its existing customer base and is therefore hoping the customers of other brands change their preference rather than finding new ways to appeal to new customers. As Boomers age beyond their riding years and see their purchasing power massively reduced by the end of cheap credit, Harley is failing to understand either the need or the means to reach a younger or wider audience. Relying on the market for motorcycles to return to its pre-recession levels without taking active steps to see it do so seems a remarkably naive way to do business. Harley is now effectively a passive passenger riding the economy's roller coaster. If the economy goes up, a lot, it might be OK. If the economy goes down or remains stagnant, it may find itself unable to repay that $1.9 billion and be forced to seek protection from its creditors.
So... HD's new Action Plan = Sell the same over-priced bikes to the same customers (who are dwindling in numbers and ability to buy them) and cross your fingers.
Yup, that'll work :cookoo:
Michael
Does this look like a Buell laying in the grass? This accident happened last week. Two bikes crashing into each other.
(http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2011/03/16/1226022/541781-crash.jpg)
Quote from: mister on March 21, 2011, 01:18:59 AM
So... HD's new Action Plan = Sell the same over-priced bikes to the same customers (who are dwindling in numbers and ability to buy them) and cross your fingers.
Yup, that'll work :cookoo:
Michael
I think their latest genius plan was was to start selling Hyosungs in their dealerships, because if an american made sport bike with a harley engine isn't good enough for their dealerships, a Hyosung definitely will it.... :technical:
Twisted: I'm not sure what it is, but it's definitely not a buell. It looks like a triumph to me.
They have introduced some newer bikes in the past few years actually. I don't think they are completely lost in the market as far as trying to keep up with trends, however, I will admit it does appear that they have waited a tad too long to actually start trying to breathe new life into the company. I like them actually. Always have since I was a kid. My uncle was huge into harley's and there is a picture floating around at my mothers house somewhere of me in a leather jacket sitting on my uncle's bike. I was only a couple years old. Are they heavy? Yes. Overpriced? Maybe, depends on your perception of what you think you should be getting for your money. Do they have "wannabe" riders? Sure, just the same as any other genre of riders, you'll have those lame brains in the mix. I've seen both dorknozzle cruiser riders and dorknozzel sportbike riders. Generally I would say that your bike choice doesn't automatically make you an idiot. When I think of Harley's, I envision open countryside, long open roads, the sun shinning bright, just cruising. When I think of sportbikes, I think of roads with tons of curves, same sun shinning bright. I also think of the track and racing when I think of sportbikes. To me, different bikes for different purposes.
Quote from: jserio on March 20, 2011, 11:33:14 AM
Kinda funny to hear the argument of "no foresight or innovation or creativity" on a forum for a bike that has stayed virtually unchanged for over two decades. ;)
I paid 1800 bucks for my bike. I love the gs500 for what it is. Its a an everyday bike thats great for the city (at least for me).
What was the point of this topic? For you to try to tell us your view point on why we should like Harleys. Well, I don't buy the argument (respectfully) and I respond with why the company sucks. Your 60/40 riding ratio doesn't work for me, I'd rather be 90/10 riding. I work with my hands on a daily basis and the last thing I want is a machine that is constantly requiring attention. I'm actually pretty surprised you decided to mention the fact that the bike requires so much attention as a plus! I see that as a huge minus.
The bike I own should have nothing to do with it. The 500 is a perfect size for me and when the time is right, I will be adding another bike to my stable without subtracting the GS. Just because I do not own a tech savvy bike I lust over does not mean my appreciation for companies that strive for perfection is any less.
Without a serious turn around as well, I don't see Harleys holding onto that market share for the future. I have no doubt they will always be around, but their popularity will dwindle to a population of hardcore followers rather than every newbie above 40 that wants to ride a bike.
Quote from: jserio on March 21, 2011, 01:03:45 PM
Are they heavy? Yes. Overpriced? Maybe, depends on your perception of what you think you should be getting for your money.
I agree wholeheartedly.
If thats what you want to spend your money on, have at it. You have a personal connection to this bike through your family and no one is going to change that for you. Just don't expect others to have the same nostalgia for a machine you admit is heavy and to those looking for value, extremely overpriced.
Quote from: NickyNumbers on March 21, 2011, 01:09:22 PM
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I paid 1800 bucks for my bike. I love the gs500 for what it is. Its a an everyday bike thats great for the city (at least for me).
What was the point of this topic? For you to try to tell us your view point on why we should like Harleys. Well, I don't buy the argument (respectfully) and I respond with why the company sucks. Your 60/40 riding ratio doesn't work for me, I'd rather be 90/10 riding. I work with my hands on a daily basis and the last thing I want is a machine that is constantly requiring attention. I'm actually pretty surprised you decided to mention the fact that the bike requires so much attention as a plus! I see that as a huge minus.
Where do you see that anyone(myself included) has said that a harley requires more attention? I also would say that having a bike I don't have to constantly wrench on is a plus. Same reason I wanted/bought a new car the last time, tired of constantly working on my daily driver. A bike should be the same. Personally, I could care less what bikes you or anyone else likes/rides. An appreciation for the sport is what matters to me. The majority of people that I hear bashing HD have never owned/operated or had any type of interaction with them at all. They go off what their buddies say or what they've heard on some online blog/forum. Instead of making a choice based on rumor alone, go to your local dealership, take one for a demo ride and give it half a chance and then make an opinion about the machine. You say the company sucks, but why? I honestly have no idea how a company could be so bad at what they do and yet stay in business well over 100 years. They must be doing something right for someone out there in order to be in business so long. Again, just my opinion on the matter.
Quote from: jserio on March 21, 2011, 03:14:52 PM
Where do you see that anyone(myself included) has said that a harley requires more attention?
Your original post below
Quote from: jserio on March 21, 2011, 03:14:52 PM
Yes, Harleys have reputation for breaking down. Look at it this way, most motorcycle owner are gear heads at heart. Im sure most of us fall into this category. When it comes to my GS i would say of the 100% of joy it brings me 60% is riding and 40% is just working on it, maintaining it and tinkering. We all love to work on our bikes, thats a fact. What fun would it be if it always worked and we never got to tear it apart, see how things work, get out hands dirty, re-build a carb/ engine/ tranny.
With that said, so maybe Harleys have a few more problems than other bikes, but its just part of the joy of owning a machine. Getting to work on it.
And the rest of your post once again is just your personal opinion and feelings. Like I said, you have a personal connection to the brand. I don't. My view is purely objective and has nothing to do with my feelings towards the brand, hence the posting of statistics on how crappy they performed this fiscal year.
oh yea, just for reference. I've been to plenty HD dealerships, mainly because the one by me carries BMW as well and there is one down the block from work. I've test ridden the 883 and the XR1200, wasnt that impressed. The XR was my favorite of the two though.
Ummm..that quote about 60 40....wasn't from me. Check the original posting again. It's the very first one in this thread actually. Thanks.
Quote from: jserio on March 21, 2011, 06:16:37 PM
Ummm..that quote about 60 40....wasn't from me. Check the original posting again. It's the very first one in this thread actually. Thanks.
yea i just noticed that. I thought you were the OP, my mistake. Doesn't really change anything I'm saying though, thanks.
All I've seemed to gather from your postings on this thread is that you dislike them because of how they are priced and that the company lost money this last year. :dunno_white:
Quote from: NickyNumbers on March 21, 2011, 04:10:53 PM
Quote from: jserio on March 21, 2011, 03:14:52 PM
Where do you see that anyone(myself included) has said that a harley requires more attention?
Your original post below
Quote from: jserio on March 21, 2011, 03:14:52 PM
Yes, Harleys have reputation for breaking down. Look at it this way, most motorcycle owner are gear heads at heart. Im sure most of us fall into this category. When it comes to my GS i would say of the 100% of joy it brings me 60% is riding and 40% is just working on it, maintaining it and tinkering. We all love to work on our bikes, thats a fact. What fun would it be if it always worked and we never got to tear it apart, see how things work, get out hands dirty, re-build a carb/ engine/ tranny.
With that said, so maybe Harleys have a few more problems than other bikes, but its just part of the joy of owning a machine. Getting to work on it.
And the rest of your post once again is just your personal opinion and feelings. Like I said, you have a personal connection to the brand. I don't. My view is purely objective and has nothing to do with my feelings towards the brand, hence the posting of statistics on how crappy they performed this fiscal year.
oh yea, just for reference. I've been to plenty HD dealerships, mainly because the one by me carries BMW as well and there is one down the block from work. I've test ridden the 883 and the XR1200, wasnt that impressed. The XR was my favorite of the two though.
HAD a rep. for breaking down. members here live in the past. this was during the amf days. when you turn ownership of a company to unions and a corporation based on profit. they tried to get hte most using the least. that showed up anythign with amf on its side i try to avoid. hell everybody performed crappy this fiscal year. worldwide lol
Well not EVERYBODY lost money this year. (Think big oil) ;)
Quote from: jserio on March 21, 2011, 09:21:12 PM
Well not EVERYBODY lost money this year. (Think big oil) ;)
true. course 90% of what we use has a base in oil. even when we walk, we use oil. (* shoes , food, clothing, colouring, etc)
Quote from: jserio on March 21, 2011, 09:21:12 PM
Well not EVERYBODY lost money this year. (Think big oil) ;)
Buell sales were still on a steady increase, until HD canned them.