When I first started riding [about 3 years ago], the idea of being out in the rain scared me.
Cars were hella-scary (still are, to a degree).
Now, though, cars don't bother me as much (still wary of them, of course), and rain is just plain fun. But there's one thing that hasn't changed...
High winds still scare the shaZam! outta me. It wasn't so bad on my 850-lb Boulevard, but on these little GSs, crosswinds are plain nerve-racking. [For the next couple of months] my daily commute includes 3 miles across a very tall interstate bridge, and this morning had 20+ mph winds coming 90* across it. :icon_eek: The worst part was passing a semi truck while getting passed by a Dodge Ram (I was in the center lane) while leaned into a curve, while the wind was blowing me left and the semi's slipstream was sucking me right. I thought that 3 miles was NEVER going to end. I had to keep verbally telling myself out loud "Calm down. Relax. You're fine. Breathe. Lighten up on the bars. Tuck a bit lower. Slow down. Don't freak out. Steer into the wind a bit. Not too much." the whole way across the bridge.
So, I have two-fold question:
1) As you've gained more experience, what is your biggest concern/most anxiety-inducing factor of the road?
2) Has anyone ever been literally blown over/off the road/into the other lane by crosswinds at speed? It damn sure feels like it's gonna happen...or am I just being overly-nervous? :dunno_black:
Riding in the rain is what scares me most. Combine water and oil and 2 wheels...it really is a scary thought.
I've never been blown over/off the road or lanes. I ride with very little pressure on the handlebars and it usually helps maintain heading.
when in the wind you need to relax your arms and let your upper body take all the buffeting
i too ride over a bridge with lovely winds, when i first started riding i hated the bridge then i learned about the relaxing the arms now i love the bridge
24 years experience
1) Other drivers
2) Came close once. And, even though I'm more experienced with riding with wind, I'd rather ride in the rain.
You definitely get used to things whether it's traffic, highways, rain, rough roads, or wind. I know most new riders hate metal grate bridges or pavement when it's been torn up to be recovered, but I love riding over both of those now. I have a great time in the rain and think it's increadibly peaceful if you've got proper rain gear to keep you dry. It's like you're in this weird little bubble where you're in the rain but you're not getting wet. Even when I moved to the city and started bicycling around after riding motorcycles in traffic for years I was still terrified, but after a little bit of time you don't think twice about squeezing through rush hour traffic and having cars fly past you going the other direction.
Give it some time and you'll get used to it. I've ridden in pretty bad rain storms with high winds. You could barely see anything, and you could still tell you were riding leaned over at a 45 degree angle all the while were riding perfectly straight, haha, that's a weird feeling. Normal consistent wind isn't bad, it's usually just those strong unexpected gusts. I'd say your best bet is to try to stay in a lane that gives you room to move, and try to not lets cars ride next to you for very long so if the wind does hit you, you know you've got 10 feet on each side of you before you run into anything.
Great discussion. March of 2010 was my first time on a bike, and it was at the safety course on a Honda 250CC. I passed my tests and then ran off to the SS to grab my license. 2 weeks after I found my GS500F and took major baby steps with it in the beginning. At the start I had a list of concerns/anxiety inducing things. Now my main one is gravel!! For some reason my fear is hitting the sprayed gravel and/or pieces of road that filter the Michigan roads. After this winter we have tons of pot holes which means there will be a lot of the tar deposits from the road workers shoving the pebble crap into the holes while leaving debris all over the lanes.
1.) Gravel and Pot hole filling pieces
2.) On the highway I hit a major crosswind that took me by surprised. It felt like I was going to drive right into the other lane but kept composure. I thought I had to change undies but everything was okay.
I did have a piece of truck tire get thrown into my lane while on the x-way doing 80+. My mind said "oh shaZam!" but my body reacted by swerving, balancing, reposition. The car behind me hit the piece of tire, throwing it back into the lane it came from. After that I knew my continued practicing of swerving, figure 8's, etc... in the church parking lot was paying off. :)
1) Just other drivers...you have to watch out for them because they do not see you, I swear to you.
2) Nope, when the winds pick up, I just lean more to oppose it...it's kinda fun for me haha
Quote from: plewis51 on March 01, 2011, 12:17:15 PM
1.) Gravel and Pot hole filling pieces
Oh, man. Being here on the beach, there's sand on the road EVERYWHERE. I still can't bring myself to lean into curves when there's visible sand on the right of way.
Quote...because they do not see you, I swear to you.
When I started, everyone always said to drive with the mindset that I'm invisible.
I take it one step further: I drive with the mindset that everyone is actively TRYING to kill me. Makes you even more defensive. :cheers:
All that stuff has always been fun for me. Rain especially, has never bothered me.
On my first extended motorcycle trip we had miles and miles of 2 lane highway where we would be driving straight at a 45 degree angle. Since that day I have wanted to experience that again, it was just fun! I like being pushed around by wind and the gusts as I pass trucks -- its a rush.
One thing that still gives me a scare is merging onto a freeway at night in the rain. I can never be 100% sure what I am merging into with the terrible visibility. Also, every so often I get into a situation (usually involving a stupid driver in a car) and realize a few moments later that if things had happened slightly different I could have died, etc, etc.
I have three fears...
1) being hit by passing drivers with a beer bottle...(tons to redneck yahoos where I live)(2 lane roads)
2) hitting a deer
3) loose marbles on the edge of the road
I drive interstate each day I ride, trucks, wind, other motorists don't bother me anymore. I never ride in the rain, too much of a hassle to put on and take off the gear.
Oh I forgot about those tar strips from fixing cracks in the road. They make me very paranoid.
Any Jack knob trying to cross my lane of traffic at a not-so-full-stop at a stop sign. I hate creepers!
The worst so far is heavy rain with railroad tracks. >:( >:( Jesus Christ is it scary to feel your back end swerve left and right after a long day of work...The next one is the obscenely large potholes that are a few inches deep and wide enough to drop your front tires into...and S.F. has some seriously distracted drivers. :2guns: :2guns: :2guns: :2guns:
I used to not like riding in the rain, but since I started commuting on a bike about 1.5 years ago it doesn't bother me so much. Proper rain gear and anti-fog on a visor are crucial though.
I don't like riding during windy days, but I am not too worried about being pushed around as this is quite fun (most of the time at least), but in the city there is so much litter, cardboard boxes, all that stuff flying in front of you plus garbage cans in the middle of the street etc which makes riding during wind quite unpleasant experience.
Steady wind is not bad, you just have to lean a little to the side. Unexpected gusts are the worst because they hit you suddenly and if you're not prepared it may have nasty consequences.
Blind drivers piss me off as well as drivers who do not use turn signals (most drivers in NYC).
I really wish that a driver license road test was much more difficult.
It would decrease the number of idiots on the public roads.
Stay warm everyone - winter is almost over!
Try:
- riding to work every day in Ireland (never needed to wash the bike)
- 160kph winds + rain
- riding in a sandstorm in the Sahara
- in snow/ice in the Alpes and Atlas Mountains
- driving into deep soft sand at 120kph
- crashing into a pothole at 150kph in Senegal
- traffic in Bamako, Mali
- being pushed off the road by some gangsters in Ukraine
And I am sure there is crazier stuff out there, these are only what I have gone through with my GS. Crashed a few times but I am still here to tell the tale. :)
In my experience, the GS without luggage is pretty stable in high winds, the only thing you have to remember is stay loose, don't grab the bars too hard. In the wet you need good tyres, avoid diesel spills, roundabouts, white paint on the road and leaves in the autumn. And if you go faster than the cars, and you are lucky that no one pulls out in front of you.. there should be no problem there :)
Quote from: tt_four on March 01, 2011, 03:01:08 PM
Oh I forgot about those tar strips from fixing cracks in the road. They make me very paranoid.
Only when it's really hot or rainy/wet, then those things are slick. But, they are easily avoided by picking your lines, and if not then you adjust your body position, speed and steering.
I should add to my original post:
1) Other drivers, because of that one time those two in the '80's Jap 4-door played chicken with me.
I agree. The scariest moment yet has been when I rode across the Benicia Bridge when I rode back to Seattle from San Jose. It was so windy I seriously thought I was going over the side.
I ride over a tall bridge with high wind. I find if its really bad (ie we have 100kph + which happens way to often) I keep my upper body loose lay on the fuel tank behind the windscreen and try not to fight every gust and it works fine.
I still hate, when its just started rain, before or the oil and crap is washed out of the road, and little pieces of gravel. Prefer full on gravel.
I ride Interstare in New Orleans everyday. I cross high bridges everyday. The thing that scares me most...... Other people (Idiots) in their cages. I have been passed by people that give me little or no clearance, I have had trucks come over on me. I dont like riding in the rain for this very reason also. These crazy people will ride your back tire, and then hit the brakes hard and say you stopped short. I ride loose, and let my arms take the buffeting.
1. Other drivers. "Ride like they're out to get you."
2. Poor, defenseless bunny rabbits that cross my path...I have a fear of squashing them.
3. During my New Rider Course, one of the learners locked his front wheel and was slapped into a faceplant on the asphault and had to quit the course and go to the hospital. It reminded me of fly swatter....the rider being the swatter, that is. Every time I do a quick stop that image flashes in my mind. :icon_eek:
It's funny when I got my GS two months ago every bridge seemed to have brutal crosswinds, and I loathed my first few runs on the freeway, I felt all this buffeting in the chest and headchecking into the next lane was a chore, as the wind battered me in the side of the helmet as I turned my head.
I think we've been getting some better weather, because I never seem to encounter too much of a crosswind on any of the bridges that used to a problem, and it's as if I'm getting a permanent tailwind on the freeway in comparison to my first few runs.
Cosimo I found the same thing over time. The days that used to make me stop and consider getting the van keys out now don't even make me blink. Hail I still shy away from cause it hurts.
Crosswinds and gravel are the two things that tend to spook most riders, inexperienced a little more than experienced.
Experienced riders always say to "Relax the upper body." or "Relax your grip on the bars." They are absolutely right. But they usually don't say why and they almost never tell you how.
Why?
Whenever the bike is being moved around under us, we want to be in better contact with the bike so we don't lose it. The automatic tendency is to tense up and grip the bars harder. That's exactly the wrong thing to do. But why? Because the harder you grip the bars, the more steering inputs you make. So every movement of the bike that causes your upper body to move gets translated into a steering input. This exaggerates every movement of the bike into an even bigger move. If you keep it up, pretty soon you can set up a totally scary weave. All caused by your steering inputs as your upper body gets moved around, either by wind buffeting both your body and the bike or the natural tendency of a bike on gravel to try to "hunt".
How?
That's the important question. Turns out it's pretty easy. Just grip the tank really hard with your knees. If the bike is moving about pretty good, just try to put dents into the sides of the tank with your knees. (You can't, but try to anyway.) This will allow you to maintain good solid contact with the bike while relaxing your upper body and your grip on the bars. It also helps if you lean forward a little from your normal riding position. If you do this while gripping tight with your knees, relaxing your upper body and lightening your grip, you can relax and let the bike move around.
If you never develop this riding technique you will never get really comfortable with riding in buffeting crosswinds or on gravel. If you work on it you will start to trust it and get way more comfortable.
For those who wonder where I'm coming from, I started riding in 1965, back when if you wanted to go anywhere there was about a 50% chance you had to take some gravel roads on at least part of the trip. I taught the Canada Safety Council rider training course (kind of like the MSF course) for ten years. I wish I had a buck for every student who came back to thank me for that single riding tip in helping them get confident and make their riding so much more pleasant in conditions that had them completely spooked.
So just remember, when the bike starts to move under you, squeeze with the knees, relax everything from the hips up and stop fighting the bike.
Now go find a nice gravel road or windy bridge to practice on until it becomes more instinctive than the death grip on the bars. :thumb:
...ken...
Yep, two years ago I had just learned how to ride and hit crosswinds that had made a group of Harley riders pull off the road. I wanted to get home so I kept going but was doing half the speed limit and still getting blown across my lane. With the death grip I had on the handlebars I'm surprised I didn't leave a permanent imprint in them.
A few weeks ago I was riding in nearly the same conditions and didn't even realize how windy it was until I pulled up to a stoplight. Proper riding technique makes a world of difference.
Quote from: Ken in Regina on March 04, 2011, 09:12:34 PM
Crosswinds and gravel are the two things that tend to spook most riders, inexperienced a little more than experienced.
Experienced riders always say to "Relax the upper body." or "Relax your grip on the bars." They are absolutely right. But they usually don't say why and they almost never tell you how.
Why?
Whenever the bike is being moved around under us, we want to be in better contact with the bike so we don't lose it. The automatic tendency is to tense up and grip the bars harder. That's exactly the wrong thing to do. But why? Because the harder you grip the bars, the more steering inputs you make. So every movement of the bike that causes your upper body to move gets translated into a steering input. This exaggerates every movement of the bike into an even bigger move. If you keep it up, pretty soon you can set up a totally scary weave. All caused by your steering inputs as your upper body gets moved around, either by wind buffeting both your body and the bike or the natural tendency of a bike on gravel to try to "hunt".
How?
That's the important question. Turns out it's pretty easy. Just grip the tank really hard with your knees. If the bike is moving about pretty good, just try to put dents into the sides of the tank with your knees. (You can't, but try to anyway.) This will allow you to maintain good solid contact with the bike while relaxing your upper body and your grip on the bars. It also helps if you lean forward a little from your normal riding position. If you do this while gripping tight with your knees, relaxing your upper body and lightening your grip, you can relax and let the bike move around.
If you never develop this riding technique you will never get really comfortable with riding in buffeting crosswinds or on gravel. If you work on it you will start to trust it and get way more comfortable.
For those who wonder where I'm coming from, I started riding in 1965, back when if you wanted to go anywhere there was about a 50% chance you had to take some gravel roads on at least part of the trip. I taught the Canada Safety Council rider training course (kind of like the MSF course) for ten years. I wish I had a buck for every student who came back to thank me for that single riding tip in helping them get confident and make their riding so much more pleasant in conditions that had them completely spooked.
So just remember, when the bike starts to move under you, squeeze with the knees, relax everything from the hips up and stop fighting the bike.
Now go find a nice gravel road or windy bridge to practice on until it becomes more instinctive than the death grip on the bars. :thumb:
...ken...
Best response in this thread. Thank you very much for the insight because I had not idea why to loosen up the grip and upper body. Like you said, it's instinctive to grip harder for control but that is totally wrong.
Was approaching an intersection (green) in the right lane, with SUV in the left. We were staggered, with the SUV in front. As we went through the intersection, a big, loud, blinged-out Dodge Magnum started to turn left behind the SUV, into my lane. I had a def "Oh f@$&!!" moment with this thing still moving at me about 6" away. Didn't really have anywhere to go so laid on the horn. Guy stopped.
Moral of story: Don't drive into an intersection with an SUV obstructing your view.
Quote from: Pelikan on March 05, 2011, 01:59:46 PM
Moral of story: Don't drive into an intersection with an SUV obstructing your view.
Or get up far enough beside it to use it as a shield so it doesn't matter if a left-turner does something dumb. :thumb:
...ken...
Quote from: Ken in Regina on March 05, 2011, 02:02:11 PM
Quote from: Pelikan on March 05, 2011, 01:59:46 PM
Moral of story: Don't drive into an intersection with an SUV obstructing your view.
Or get up far enough beside it to use it as a shield so it doesn't matter if a left-turner does something dumb. :thumb:
...ken...
I always use the other vehicle as a shield at round-a-bouts. And like it specially when they are buses or trucks cause if something hits them they have too much bulk to be pushed into me.
As for road/hazards to fear... I should I say, things I am additionally cautious or unnerved about...
Hail.
I learned on dirt so that's not an issue. Rain doesn't bother me. I am triple alert to all around me, so like the other day when the car next to me decided to just come right on over despite my beeping of the horn, I had already moved across the lane and even onto the shoulder while accelerating away. I know of the debris zone at all intersections (where gravel/sand gathers cause no cars drive there and taking a corner wide will see you in it) so that's nothing to fear.
But hail. I'll do anything to avoid that bad boy. Hard enough driving on it in a car. Don't want to be driving on cold marbles on a bike. Good thing hail doesn't take you by surprise so there is time to find shelter and let it pass.
Michael
Quote from: Ken in Regina on March 04, 2011, 09:12:34 PM
Crosswinds and gravel are the two things that tend to spook most riders, inexperienced a little more than experienced.
Experienced riders always say to "Relax the upper body." or "Relax your grip on the bars." They are absolutely right. But they usually don't say why and they almost never tell you how.
Why?
Whenever the bike is being moved around under us, we want to be in better contact with the bike so we don't lose it. The automatic tendency is to tense up and grip the bars harder. That's exactly the wrong thing to do. But why? Because the harder you grip the bars, the more steering inputs you make. So every movement of the bike that causes your upper body to move gets translated into a steering input. This exaggerates every movement of the bike into an even bigger move. If you keep it up, pretty soon you can set up a totally scary weave. All caused by your steering inputs as your upper body gets moved around, either by wind buffeting both your body and the bike or the natural tendency of a bike on gravel to try to "hunt".
I love your response. Its so informative. The only thing I was initially told was stay loose up top cause the stiffer you are the more hard surface the wind has to push on. It kind of makes sense. Yours makes the perfect sense though. Wish someone had told me that first up.
Riding on the road since 1980. The short answer is anything and everything.
- Other drivers, of course. Just because they're looking at you doesn't mean they see you!
- Road hazards; potholes, loose gravel, construction zones, (asphalt stripped away leaving parallel grooves going down the road) deep gravel, sticks, broken glass, oil, whatever debris there may be, especially in corners. I once encountered a DISCARDED METAL BEDSPRING IN THE MIDDLE OF A SHARP CORNER!
- animals
- high winds
- heavy rain causing hydroplaning and/or inability to see
I also ride a Yamaha 750 triple and even that bike gets blown around if the winds are strong enough so high wind is a concern no matter how big your bike is.
The only cure for all of this is keep your head in the game and SLOW DOWN. All this is why I don't listen to music while I ride. I haven't been hospitalized yet and I want to keep the streak going!
Quote from: Ken in Regina on March 04, 2011, 09:12:34 PM
Just grip the tank really hard with your knees. If the bike is moving about pretty good, just try to put dents into the sides of the tank with your knees. (You can't, but try to anyway.) This will allow you to maintain good solid contact with the bike while relaxing your upper body and your grip on the bars. It also helps if you lean forward a little from your normal riding position. If you do this while gripping tight with your knees, relaxing your upper body and lightening your grip, you can relax and let the bike move around.
I did this today, and it worked like a charm. Still wasn't exactly FUN coming across the bridge, but it was much less scary. :thumb:
I'm glad it helped. :cheers: "Less scary" is what it's about. It has allowed some folks to ride on days they otherwise wouldn't. Others, with practice, don't much think about conditions that would have had them peeing themselves before.
...ken...
AWESOME thread! this is the stuff i need to be reading/studying. definitely helps the mental confidence, now i just need to man up and go ride in this rain!
As mentioned above, we instinctively like to put other vehicles between us and any approaching hazard, but it tends to just blind us to the hazard and make it harder for other vehicles to see us. Better to just put yourself where you have a complete view of the situation, and give yourself plenty of stopping distance, rather than trying to stay shielded.
Quote from: steezin_and_wheezin on March 10, 2011, 12:43:51 PM
AWESOME thread! this is the stuff i need to be reading/studying. definitely helps the mental confidence, now i just need to man up and go ride in this rain!
Concerning confidence, I should have said a little more about gravel. Gravel still freaks me out when I don't know how deep it is because if you go into deep gravel at anything above a crawl it will swallow your wheels and make you fall no matter how good a rider you are. Entering gravel parking lots and driveways is the most common place you'll find it. Gravel can also be deep in construction zones and it's particularly dangerous there because you'll likely be trying to maintain more speed than you would entering a parking lot. That's the last place I got a scare.
Hard rain is really no biggie as long as you stay off/get off the interstate and go slower than normal. How slow is up to your tires and how hard it's raining.