I purchased my bike with a signed title (signed by the last registered owner), but not notarized from someone who never got it put in their name. I tracked down the last person that it was registered to and she's oblivious to the fact that things MUST be notarized in the lovely state of PA. She is basically ignoring any message I sent her after bailing out on meeting me at a notary. I told her I would give her $40 cash for 30 minutes of her time at a notary even. No luck.
I am going nuts..... :2guns: :2guns: :cookoo: :cookoo: I just want to get my bike licensed legally so I dont have to worry about the fuzz and so I can take my MSF and get off my permit.
I could take it to another state, register it and register it back in PA, or swap the frame for another clean titled frame... I dont know the cost, or hassle involved.
I could petition the court for an 'involuntary title transfer' but that could cost me up to $800.
Any ideas or other suggestions?
You beat up her old boyfriend and took the bike, didn't you? C'mon, fess up! :cheers:
I bought a lfited truck and had to go through the same damn thing , NY would not let me lisence it either . And the guy who really owned the truck moved down south , When I did finally track the guy down he did agree to come to PA and help me out and he did thank god .
Wow that sound utterly stupid, what's the point of this hassle??
What a PITA. Might be able to put pressure on the person who sold you the bike, you paid them for the bike but they did not give it to you in a condition that is titleable. Maybe they can put pressure on the person they bought it from so that original person will meet you at the notary.
Sometimes there are ways around rules like this, might talk to the DMV again. Might be able to file for a new title in your name. Hope you have a bill of sale to prove the bike is yours.
I have a bill of sale from the guy I got it from, and I have the signed title, so as far as I know, that should be enough to prove I own it. If not, ill be buying a new frame and selling this one to someone outside PA that can get it titled just as easily as it can be done in a state like CA.
The guy I got it from didn't even know how to contact the person he got it from. I spent my time tracking them down to get this far.
Quote from: jeffdodge on March 16, 2011, 11:32:04 AM
I have a bill of sale from the guy I got it from, and I have the signed title, so as far as I know, that should be enough to prove I own it. If not, ill be buying a new frame and selling this one to someone outside PA that can get it titled just as easily as it can be done in a state like CA.
The guy I got it from didn't even know how to contact the person he got it from. I spent my time tracking them down to get this far.
How did He get it put into his name if it turns out you cannot?
Michael
Quote from: mister on March 16, 2011, 11:37:18 AM
Quote from: jeffdodge on March 16, 2011, 11:32:04 AM
I have a bill of sale from the guy I got it from, and I have the signed title, so as far as I know, that should be enough to prove I own it. If not, ill be buying a new frame and selling this one to someone outside PA that can get it titled just as easily as it can be done in a state like CA.
The guy I got it from didn't even know how to contact the person he got it from. I spent my time tracking them down to get this far.
How did He get it put into his name if it turns out you cannot?
Michael
The middle man never got it put into his name. He bought it (and didn't get the title notarized, perhaps he couldn't because of an cooperative seller?) and then sold it to the OP. Technically I think its only legal for licensed dealers to do that, at least in my state.
Quote from: gsf500RR on March 16, 2011, 06:23:54 AM
...what's the point of this hassle??
It's the government; they never have a point.
Washington is easy. I've bought Junior and Trey from private parties. They sign the title and give me a bill of sale.
The next business day I go down the street from my office to a local license office. Pay the fee and sales tax and walk out with a new license and title. If their computer indicates the prior owner was OK, then nothing else needs to be done. I even renew the tags for another year at the same time. Simple. Easy. Painless.
Yet another reason to move to Seattle and join the West Seattle GS500 Club!
What year is the bike? If it is older than 7 years it can be titled in the state of Maryland without a notarized bill of sale providing none of the "buyers" section of the title has been filled out. There would be a $50 title fee, 6% sales tax on the sale price (with a minimum sale price of $600) and a $40 fee for the tag and title service company. That would give you a clear MD title to work with. I can't recall if PA requires a notarized bill of sale for out of state titles.
-Jessie
In NC you could just put a Mechanics Lein on it, wait 30 days and you have a title. A buddy of mine went through the same thing when he was given 2.5 parts Kats that are now 2 fully titled bikes.
Move to NJ, they dont give a crap. We dont even need ours inspected anymore!
Quote from: average on March 16, 2011, 03:58:52 PM
In NC you could just put a Mechanics Lein on it, wait 30 days and you have a title. A buddy of mine went through the same thing when he was given 2.5 parts Kats that are now 2 fully titled bikes.
+1 to this. I have a friend in Ohio that does this for his projects and I know a guy in Maine that will do it for a fee.
Quote from: murf425 on March 16, 2011, 12:02:22 PM
Quote from: gsf500RR on March 16, 2011, 06:23:54 AM
...what's the point of this hassle??
It's the government; they never have a point.
I would of thought the point was to make it easier to buy a new bike from a dealer.
Quote from: lucifer_mr2 on March 17, 2011, 01:04:36 AM
I would of thought the point was to make it easier to buy a new bike from a dealer.
No you don't need to buy a bike from a dealer, just don't buy things from people who don't legally own them.
I live on the other side of the world but I imagine this will work just fine where you are.
1. Before you proceeding with test drives, mechanical inspections, negotiating price or wasting any time, get the VIN, plate number and engine number. Do a quick background check to make sure this vehicle hasn't been written off at some point (not always a dealbreaker), doesn't have any money owing against it, and isn't stolen. You can probably do this before you even visit the seller, where I live you can do it on any internet phone so you can quickly check any vehicle while you're standing in front of it.
2. Get the registration paperwork/ title or whatever piece of paper proves ownership in your juristiction. Check that the Vin, and engine numbers on that paperwork match what's actually on the vehicle (you may need to plunge into the depths with some degreaser and a rag to find engine numbers on some vehicles, on motorbikes it's pretty easy).
3. Having established that this paperwork correctly matches this vehicle, you now need to make sure that the person named on the paperwork is the person standing in front of you, their driver's licence MUST match the ownership details on the registration. If it doesn't, this person is not legally authorised to be selling this vehicle. Don't give them any money, because it's not theirs to sell. In some situations they may be selling on behalf of someone else, it's up to you whether you're going to accept the declaration. If there's any doubt the best solution may be for both you and the seller to go down to the DMV or whatever govt office takes care of this crap where you live, and complete the sale there so the bureaucrats can check the paperwork. Make it clear that the seller isn't getting the balance of payment until the transfer goes through.
This isn't your horrible state being horribly anally retentive, you just handed over a wad of cash to someone who didn't technically own the bike, and now need to work backwards. People are a whole lot less helpful once they have their cash and no longer need to deal with you.
Quote from: Cosimo_Zaretti on March 17, 2011, 03:32:19 AM
..... This isn't your horrible state being horribly anally retentive, you just handed over a wad of cash to someone who didn't technically own the bike, and now need to work backwards. People are a whole lot less helpful once they have their cash and no longer need to deal with you.
Yes, it kind of is. Why shouldn't someone be able to sell a bike to one person, then that person be able to sell it to another without a bunch of bureaucratic paperwork? Any why is a notarization required? I've bought and sold tens of vehicles, and I know many other people who have also. Never once wished I would have gotten the transfer notarized.
Quote from: zirconx on March 17, 2011, 06:11:34 AM
Quote from: Cosimo_Zaretti on March 17, 2011, 03:32:19 AM
..... This isn't your horrible state being horribly anally retentive, you just handed over a wad of cash to someone who didn't technically own the bike, and now need to work backwards. People are a whole lot less helpful once they have their cash and no longer need to deal with you.
Yes, it kind of is. Why shouldn't someone be able to sell a bike to one person, then that person be able to sell it to another without a bunch of bureaucratic paperwork? Any why is a notarization required? I've bought and sold tens of vehicles, and I know many other people who have also. Never once wished I would have gotten the transfer notarized.
B/c it keeps me from breaking into your house, stealing the title and keys to your bike, riding off, and then selling it to someone else before you report it stolen.
Those from outside the US would be amazed at how different the regulations are from state to state in the US. They might as well be different countries. State's rights, you know.
The notarize thing is odd, only b/c few other states require it. Frankly, I think you're stuck with registering it out of state or going with a mechanic's lien.
How would I go about getting a mechanic's lein?
Take it to a bike shop, have them charge you for parts/labor, and don't pay the bill. To be compensated, the shop applies for the lien. After a short amount of time, they get your title for the bike.
Doesn't really work in your favor unless the shop agrees to "sell" you the bike back.
Hmm... No way to do it as a 'shadetree' mechanic? It has to actually be a shop?
Not that I'm aware of. You said your in PA? I know a guy out of state that will do it.
What will it cost me and how long do you think it will take? I sent a certified letter to the PO, and they signed for it, and will not contact me, so I don't have any real options here in PA.
Pm sent.