I notice sometimes that when I come to a stop light and sit in neutral that when I try to put the bike in first gear it has some trouble going. I pull the clutch all the way in, push down on the lever and nothing. Try it again and nothing. Push the bike back a little and it goes into gear. WTF :cookoo:
Is it me?
Does the clutch need to be adjusted?
Am I not to pull the clutch in all the way?
I don't know so I thought I'd see if it happens to anyone else or if anyone may have an answer for me.
Have you been changing your oil enough? On some of my other bikes I've noticed smoother shifting after switching to synthetic oil. I'm about to do this on my first oil change for my GS500f, we'll see if it makes any difference. I don't notice the problem you are mentioning, but I think the bike could shift smoother.
that's normal. don't worry about it.
In fact, just to be safe and ALWAYS have possibility of leaving quickly do not change gear to neutral, keep it in first and just keep the clutch pulled in.
this ways you can always leave the intersection right away in case of any trouble, without worrying about finding first gear.
be safe
If it happens again, just hold the downward pressure on the gear pedal, slowly ease the clutch out until it goes into gear, then pull clutch in again until you're ready to go. Its not unusual, just that the gearbox selector dogs don't always line up when things aren't moving, so you have to move the bike (which turns the output shaft) or use the clutch as I said (which turns the input shaft), until they 'click' into place.
Certainly having the clutch adjusted correctly and oil of correct spec will help, but its nothing to worry about.
Yeah, mine started doing that after my last oil change...maybe I should use thicker oil...I used 10w40 the recommended weight, but maybe I should be using a 20w50...not sure...I will do another oil change with 10w40 and see if things change...it used to shift into first much easier and I am wondering if the previous owner used 20w50?? I've only had it for one season...
It also clunks into 1st when I first start the bike...and with the choke holding the revs at 3k the clunk is worse...kinda like riding a Harley...
Later.
I'd adjust the choke down a bit before you try to ride away. The bike doesn't need to be running at 3k just for you to ride it before it's warmed up.
Aside from that, every bike I have owned has done this at some point. It's usually not a constant problem but it does happen. Sometimes if the gear won't catch I just let the clutch lever out, then pull it in once or twice again then try to shift and it'll go.
the same happens to me, i just let the clutch out, put it back in and then try again.
I also have trouble getting it into neutral sometimes. Like if i leave the bike parked in first, turn it off and leave it for a while. then come back, start the bike and try put it in neutral while i get my gear sorted, it wont go into neutral or any other gear. :mad:
once i start riding i can change gear no porblems at all
I have the opposite problem, going into neutral after stopped. If I'm still rolling no problem, but at a dead stop some times it's a pain to get neutral. Tried rolling back and forth, easing on the clutch, etc.
its not an oil issue, or mechanical issue, or any issue at all. Its simply the gears being in a position where, instead of meshing together, they are aligned and touching. Rolling forward our backward a small bit will align them and is the best way to align them. Same thing happens with a car. The synchronizers will be touching instead of meshing sometimes. a little movement will turn them enough to engage. Don't try push really hard to get it in gear cause you could mess up the shift drum, fork, or gears.
to get a good grasp of what im saying, WITH THE BIKE OFF put it on the center stand and try to shift the lever. youll prolly be able to shift once or twice, and then it wont move. turn the wheel with your hand while you shift and you feel and hear it catch. go through all the gears like this, turning the wheel a few degrees with your hand and youll see how it lines up the gear dogs.
Quote from: madjak30 on March 22, 2011, 07:14:14 PM
Yeah, mine started doing that after my last oil change...maybe I should use thicker oil...I used 10w40 the recommended weight, but maybe I should be using a 20w50...not sure...I will do another oil change with 10w40 and see if things change...it used to shift into first much easier and I am wondering if the previous owner used 20w50?? I've only had it for one season...
It also clunks into 1st when I first start the bike...and with the choke holding the revs at 3k the clunk is worse...kinda like riding a Harley...
Later.
it clunks because even the though the clutch is disengaged (pulling the lever), when theres no resistance everything will still spin as if the clutch was engaged. so the noise you're hearing is the dogs hitting each other at high speed (3k rpm). you probably feel the bike jump just a tiny bit too right? Shifting it like this isnt gonna blow up your trannsmission, but it will cause some extra wear so I would recomend not doing it.
I've never heard of "dogs" is this a new term because I thought it was cogs that interlocked :dunno_white:
Mary
the dog rings are a part of the syncrnizer system. I would call it a mechaics ter sice Thats what My teacher used at wyotech but in the books its termeddifferent but also use that term in some other book.
@gregvhen & tt_four: I usually idle it down to around 2k (or less if it doesn't stall out), but sometimes forget...but why would it start doing it after an oil change, when before the change it wasn't an issue...??
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on March 22, 2011, 09:11:57 PM
I've never heard of "dogs" is this a new term because I thought it was cogs that interlocked :dunno_white:
Mary
My understanding of that stuff is...cogs are the actual gears, dogs are the parts that interlock the different gears and splines are the ridges around the outside edge of the gears. If I am wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me...
Later.
Quote from: ghostrider_23 on March 22, 2011, 06:34:19 PM
I notice sometimes that when I come to a stop light and sit in neutral that when I try to put the bike in first gear it has some trouble going. I pull the clutch all the way in, push down on the lever and nothing. Try it again and nothing. Push the bike back a little and it goes into gear. WTF :cookoo:
Is it me?
Does the clutch need to be adjusted?
Am I not to pull the clutch in all the way?
I don't know so I thought I'd see if it happens to anyone else or if anyone may have an answer for me.
Mine does this too. You just have to rock the bike a little and it should go in easy.
The locking mechanism for a gear consists of a collar (or dog collar) on the shaft which is able to slide sideways so that teeth (or dogs) on its inner surface bridge two circular rings with teeth on their outer circumference: one attached to the gear, one to the shaft.
from wikipedia
This has happened a handful of times on mine as well. More often than not, though, I keep it in first at the lights in case I need to move in a hurry.
every gear pair is always connected, the shift collars slide along the shaft and the dog teeth engage the side of the gears
when everything is stopped sometimes theses dogs dont line up with the holes in the gear
(http://www.vf750fd.com/blurbs/Image8.gif)
Perfectly normal. And for future readers of this that buy a bike in the winter- that's how you check the tranny on a bike without riding it. Pop it in first, pull the clutch, rock the bike while putting it in 2nd. Release the clutch, rock the bike, squeeze the clutch, drop it into 3rd. Etc. Etc.
The tranny needs to align with the rest of the engine for each gear- can't just click through them.
Being in neutral and finding it hard to get into gear without rocking back./forward is Normal
First thing, clicking into first and there is a Clunk is Normal - if yoiu have no choke on and the revs are Very low it will Stall the bike, the more revs the larger the clunk... and... small move forard. ALL Normal.
Being stopped in gear and finding hard to get into Neutral to start is Normal. Solution is: Move bike back a small bit and try again - even try while moving - or, sit on bike, start it and Then click it into neutral.
Hard to push around while in gear and clutch pulled in when cold is also Normal.
Thank you Suzuki for the little surprises we encounter without our GS's.
Michael
So you guys all sit at a light for the entire time it is red?
OK I understand why one would keep the bike in first gear while waiting for a car to pull up behind you, but won't keeping the clutch in cause premature wear???
It's like riding the clutch when coming to a stop light and holding it in, I don't know but don't think it's a good thing?
Clutch discs are cheap to replace. The wear on the bike (and rider) from getting hit by a car - not so much.
Seriously though. It is made to sit at a red light with the clutch held in.
Quote from: ghostrider_23 on March 23, 2011, 04:49:58 AM
So you guys all sit at a light for the entire time it is red?
OK I understand why one would keep the bike in first gear while waiting for a car to pull up behind you, but won't keeping the clutch in cause premature wear???
It's like riding the clutch when coming to a stop light and holding it in, I don't know but don't think it's a good thing?
No, I'm with you...at a longer light, once there is a vehicle stopped behind me I will put it into neutral...but it doesn't cause wear on the clutch to hold it in...the only time you get wear on the clutch is when you are in the friction zone...fully in or out doesn't wear the friction plates...might put stress on the clutch cable (or seals & hose if you have a hydralic clutch...not a GS) and make your left forearm muscles tired, but nothing else.
Thanks for starting this thread :thumb:...I had forgotten about those issues, since I hadn't ridden my bike for a while...the clunk was bothering me, and I was worried about it...but if it is normal, I will just do my best keep the revs down when shifting into first... :icon_twisted:
Later.
i just roll the bike forward and backward an inch, and it slips down into gear
(http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae150/gregvhen/Swc.jpg)
left arrow points to dogs which engage other dogs, right arrow points to the actual gears that engage other gears. see how big the dogs are? thats why sometimes when you stop they will stop each other from moving sideways on the shaft.
EDIT:
also notice how the space between them is bigger than the dog itself. thats where the play and noise comes from when you shift into gear at a high idle if youre not moving.
Quote from: madjak30 on March 23, 2011, 08:09:40 AM
Quote from: ghostrider_23 on March 23, 2011, 04:49:58 AM
So you guys all sit at a light for the entire time it is red?
OK I understand why one would keep the bike in first gear while waiting for a car to pull up behind you, but won't keeping the clutch in cause premature wear???
It's like riding the clutch when coming to a stop light and holding it in, I don't know but don't think it's a good thing?
No, I'm with you...at a longer light, once there is a vehicle stopped behind me I will put it into neutral...but it doesn't cause wear on the clutch to hold it in...the only time you get wear on the clutch is when you are in the friction zone...fully in or out doesn't wear the friction plates...might put stress on the clutch cable (or seals & hose if you have a hydralic clutch...not a GS) and make your left forearm muscles tired, but nothing else.
Thanks for starting this thread :thumb:...I had forgotten about those issues, since I hadn't ridden my bike for a while...the clunk was bothering me, and I was worried about it...but if it is normal, I will just do my best keep the revs down when shifting into first... :icon_twisted:
Later.
well it wears the throwout bearing
at long lights in 80 degree weather and im 10 cars deep ill turn the engine off
true it does wear on the bearing, but the bearing can take it. Ive never heard of one going out on here, and theres been alot of differant problems discussed on this site :icon_mrgreen:
In almost 39,000 clicks I always sit at the red lights with the clutch pulled in waiting to go. It's not like it's five minutes or anything. A couple of minutes is nothing.
Michael
Quote from: mister on March 24, 2011, 12:40:00 AM
In almost 39,000 clicks I always sit at the red lights with the clutch pulled in waiting to go. It's not like it's five minutes or anything. A couple of minutes is nothing.
Michael
Depends on the intersection...most are only about a minute so yeah I just hold the clutch in, but some with advance arrows for every direction can be quite a few minutes...if you happen to just miss the light you can be waiting a while...so I wait for the first car/truck to pull up behind me then put it into neutral...watch the sequence of lights and when my light is next, back into 1st to be ready...
Why do you think our traffic gets so retarded here?? The lights are part of the problem, but they are needed for the drivers that shouldn't be driving...but that is for a different thread...
Later.
Every bike I've ever been on needs the clutch let out to get into first sometimes, including my R6. Not all the time, but sometimes. I always put my bike in neutral at stoplights, give my hands a rest and lean back a bit. It's not like putting it back into first takes any time.
What it does mean however - and heres the advanced rider in me - is taking your foot off the rear brake and doing the hopscotch to drop into first gear! :icon_mrgreen:
You guys should not worry too much about the clutch or bearing wear, unless your clutch or TO bearing is on its last leg and you're trying to nurse it along.
Quote from: Big Rich on March 23, 2011, 06:08:26 AM
Seriously though. It is made to sit at a red light with the clutch held in.
Long-winded explanation:
The clutch is in a constant oil bath (hence wet clutch); keeps friction in the TO bearing down (which causes heat/wear), and keeps the clutch plates bathed in a circulating medium (engine oil) for fresh lubrication and cooling. Friction is lost due to the oil (lowers the coefficient of friction between the fiber plates and steel plates), but this is made up for with the multi-plate config.
Staying in the friction zone in a wet clutch is not as detrimental to the clutch as doing this in a car with a dry clutch would be (in every-day riding situations, drag strip is a different story).
In the transmission bell-housing of a car, there is not really an active cooling air flow through the clutch (in fact, a lot of them are sealed to keep oil and mud out). You have the same type of mechanism (friction plate, ball bearing) running dry with no active cooling/lubrication; which is why staying off the clutch is encouraged in a manual transmission car. Not really a worry with a wet clutch. You need to be able to partially engage the clutch for low speed operation (walking speed).
Happens to me regularly, can be a pain since my parking space is not so level or generous on space, not friendly to rock it around to find first gear... and Seattle weather has forced me to warm on choke every day pretty much requiring neutral.
GS has a bit of a reluctant gearbox at times. But if it is happening always, or almost always, it can be a slightly bent shift fork. (that's the piece that pushes the gear cogs sideways on the shafts, forcing the "dogs" to engage each other).
How many miles on the bike?
You would not expect a bent shift fork unless the bike is high mileage or has been abused ("slam" shifting frequently).
Quote from: Vova on March 24, 2011, 11:54:07 PM
Happens to me regularly, can be a pain since my parking space is not so level or generous on space, not friendly to rock it around to find first gear... and Seattle weather has forced me to warm on choke every day pretty much requiring neutral.
Um... I use my choke every morning on the way to work and every afternoon on the way home. And my weather is like Florida.
Michael
Quote from: mister on March 25, 2011, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Vova on March 24, 2011, 11:54:07 PM
Happens to me regularly, can be a pain since my parking space is not so level or generous on space, not friendly to rock it around to find first gear... and Seattle weather has forced me to warm on choke every day pretty much requiring neutral.
Um... I use my choke every morning on the way to work and every afternoon on the way home. And my weather is like Florida.
Michael
do you have a stock setup? you shouldnt have to been riding on choke all the way to and from work. especially in Florida
Quote from: gregvhen on March 25, 2011, 10:23:07 PM
Quote from: mister on March 25, 2011, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Vova on March 24, 2011, 11:54:07 PM
Happens to me regularly, can be a pain since my parking space is not so level or generous on space, not friendly to rock it around to find first gear... and Seattle weather has forced me to warm on choke every day pretty much requiring neutral.
Um... I use my choke every morning on the way to work and every afternoon on the way home. And my weather is like Florida.
Michael
do you have a stock setup? you shouldnt have to been riding on choke all the way to and from work. especially in Florida
Doh! I don't ride with the choke on all the way to work. I use it to Start the bike every morning when I am going to work. And I used it to Start the bike every afternoon on the way home. Sorry for mis-communicating.
@OP: Using the choke to Start the GS500 is Normal. And it is clearly outlined in the owner manual. My parking spot is not level either. So I get the bike off the side-stand, roll it back a smidgen then click it into neutral - all while standing Next to the bike.
Michael