Hey so the other day I spoke with the Suzuki rep for the mid-west region here in the U.S. We were talking about all the changes on the 11 gsxr and what not, how bout them cowboys kinda thing, and he got to talking about how hes got a strong feeling that in the next year or so theres gonna be some big changes across the board and I asked him about the gs500 and he said he would be very surprised if they didnt discontinue the gs500 and replace it with something else. Something similar like still 2 cylinders probably but fully redesigned. Just something to look for in the near future. has anyone else heard anything like this?
EDIT:
also, he said that the reason for the 1,000 off of a new GS right now is cause once they switch over to whatever new stuff they're working on they know itll be nearly impossible to sell all the what is right now current stuff.
well, as much as the GS500 is a nice bike and its a great machine, we all know its old technology. They would have to do some huge things to update it and make it something that will continue to sell well...
Beginners are looking to bigger bikes for their first bikes now as well, partially because the dirtbikes they grew up riding make the GS feel small and gutless.
If they were to keep it around, it would need much more agressive lines and more HP. Fuel injection would be a selling point for some of us. More than likely they will go more towards competing with the ER6n and similar bikes rather than hanging on to a bike that hasn't changed much in 20 years.
Quote from: gregvhen on April 10, 2011, 09:39:52 PM
also, he said that the reason for the 1,000 off of a new GS right now is cause once they switch over to whatever new stuff they're working on they know itll be nearly impossible to sell all the what is right now current stuff.
So its nothing to do with the fact that the 1k off bikes are old stock and up to 3 years old and that they dont comply with the latest exhaust emission regs and consequently are less desirable than 2010 on models which do?
Ask yourself a question...would you rather have a factory fresh model that meets current emission regs, or for the same price a three year old version that doesnt?
Reps?...Ha!...full of it!
I think its an interesting topic. You get the "if it aint broke dont fix it" comments, and its clearly been making Suzuki some money for the past 20 years or they would have ditched it long ago. I've been reading alot of magazines the past few months and they've all had articles on the CBR250 and Ninja 250 and 400. Touting them as "beginner" bikes. And I've also read alot of articles on bikes like the the GSX650 and the Ninja 650r and they were touting them as "starter bikes". Personally, with just a few changes the GS could be a perfect bike for alot of people in my opinion, fuel inject the thing and tweak the engine a bit to get 15-20 more hp out of it, upgrade the mushy suspension and seat and maybe some new gauges and I'd be happy as hell. 20+ years with zero change is a long time...I cant think of anything thats gone that long with almost NO significant changes (other than the Big Mac). I like the sub 500 rating because my insurance is nice and low, I asked my agent and as soon as you are 600+ up it goes, and if it has a Z or R in its name, up it goes again. There aren't a whole lot of bikes that have an upright touring type position, which was the largest appeal for me, well that and the cheap price ... but if you raise that point, then were back where we started :D
Isn't there a year coming up soon where all bikes have to be FI? that would mean that the gs would either need to be updated with FI at a minimum, or else they're gonna have to ditch it all together. Suzuki already has the sv, gladius, and isn't there another that's just a 600cc version that looks just like the GS500F with the bandit motor to compete with the er6n and all of the bikes in that class? If anything they should start making a gsxr250, or they could update the GS with some more power/features, but it's still in a class that doesn't really have much competition.
Havent heard anything about them ending the GS500, but from what some bike mags Ive read are saying, is that fuel injection and a gas gauge are possible updates to the GS.
If the scuttlebutt I heard about Kawi is true, Suzie would be insane to quit offering a 500. I asked a Kawi dealer why there was no Ninja 500 this year, and if they were taking a year off to revamp it like they did the 250...ya know, modernize it, make it look better, just give it an overall rebuff. He said that the factory rumors are that the 500 is gone for good! If they put a little work into it, they'd sell like crazy.
With it's only lightweight beginner 500cc sportbike competition gone, Suzuki would clean up on sales if they kept one on the floors as the only game in town.
If I were them, I'd keep the GS, but I'd probably come out with an FI update very, very soon.
Quote from: tt_four on April 11, 2011, 05:43:16 AM
Isn't there a year coming up soon where all bikes have to be FI? ....
Geeze I hope not. Thats the last thing we need, bureaucrats telling engineers what kind of fuel delivery systems they can use.
Quote from: fraze11 on April 11, 2011, 05:27:38 AM
Personally, with just a few changes the GS could be a perfect bike for alot of people in my opinion, fuel inject the thing and tweak the engine a bit to get 15-20 more hp out of it, upgrade the mushy suspension and seat and maybe some new gauges and I'd be happy as hell. ......I like the sub 500 rating because my insurance is nice and low, I asked my agent and as soon as you are 600+ up it goes, and if it has a Z or R in its name, up it goes again.
I'm right there with you. I think with some stiffer suspension, an extra 20 HP, FI, and modern gauges, I would be all over it. The extra horses would make it around 60, which would be much better than what it is for us heavier guys, FI means a power commander rather than jetting carbs so that its easier to mod, couple that with some more agressive lines to make it look much more GSXR, and you would have a winner that would take the 500 class by storm.
Selling 250s as a first bike gets that upgrade buyer into the stealership a lot faster!
well they still sell them here
Quote from: redhawkdancing on April 11, 2011, 07:55:12 AM
Selling 250s as a first bike gets that upgrade buyer into the stealership a lot faster!
Yep. Just like how selling 600s as a first bike gets that replacing-my-busted-up-shaZam!-that-I-wrecked-'cause-I'm-a-'tard buyer into the stealership a lot faster!
Quote
Yep. Just like how selling 600s as a first bike gets that replacing-my-busted-up-shaZam!-that-I-wrecked-'cause-I'm-a-'tard buyer into the stealership a lot faster!
Agreed. Problem is so many people think that a 400 pound, 175 horse bike is a good first bike. Its because something like that is not 'pushed' onto us like it is in other countries with limitations on new riders.
Ah, guys, FI happened a long time ago on the automotive side of things. Bureacrats do give engineers the design specs, and they get what they ask for. Carbs on cars died back in the 80's. And good riddance to them.
The EX250 was built for a long time w/o changes... not sure if GS500 is older or not. Heck, even EX250 is FI in EU markets...
A redesigned GS500? Let's see. It should stay an air-cooled, 2 valve/cyl, 2 cylinder, b/c the beauty of this bike is its simplicity. Based on my observations with my 1990 (which prolly isn't fair, but whatever)
1) FI... we like fuel economy and this will deliver it.
1.5) Optimize current head combustion chamber. Large valves, shape, etc. Have to believe design can be improved over current.
1.8) Balance engine power delivery further towards the lower end of the RPM spectrum for controlability... maybe move 500-700 RPM down or so. Do it with cam, and offer OEM upgrade path for peakier performance.
2) Optimize frame, swingarm, wheels for weight with goal of getting lighter
3) Modernize frontend (either inverted fork, or better version of traditional forks). Rear shock revalve to match front.
4) Stiffen front brake... geez, just reuse other calipers from current bikes
5) Cost reduction / commonization of the rest of the schtuff on the bike, with goal of re-use
Quote from: zirconx on April 11, 2011, 06:27:54 AM
Quote from: tt_four on April 11, 2011, 05:43:16 AM
Isn't there a year coming up soon where all bikes have to be FI? ....
Geeze I hope not. Thats the last thing we need, bureaucrats telling engineers what kind of fuel delivery systems they can use.
Quote from: zirconx on April 11, 2011, 06:27:54 AM
Quote from: tt_four on April 11, 2011, 05:43:16 AM
Isn't there a year coming up soon where all bikes have to be FI? ....
Geeze I hope not. Thats the last thing we need, bureaucrats telling engineers what kind of fuel delivery systems they can use.
In the US the government does not specify the engineering side of things, just the end result. Nothing
has to be fuel injected. Emission and fuel mileage standards were issued by the government and automotive engineers found that fuel injection was the best way of achieving those requirements. The government did not mandate fuel injection. More recently the US government required a system to monitor tire pressure. Toyota originally used the ABS sensors to monitor the number of wheel rotations (tire has a smaller diameter as it loses air). That system wasn't effective enough on vehicles equipped with run-flat tires (and malfunctioned with cheap tires like Hankook) so they now use radio transmitters in the valve stems to meet the government requirement. Now car owners have a new amber light on their dash to ignore ;) If you want to read an interesting case look up Toyota's evaporative emissions equipment lawsuit against the US government from about 5 years ago. The government gave their requirements for evaporative emissions control systems and Toyota engineered their system around those requirements. The system Toyota came up with did not operate when the temperature dropped below 42 degrees F. The US government fined Toyota but Toyota took the government to court and won because their system met all of the requirements the government had specified. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I think the government may have been evening the score for that court battle with the "unintended acceleration" bunk :D
-Jessie
Quote from: jeffdodge on April 11, 2011, 11:17:40 AM
Quote
Yep. Just like how selling 600s as a first bike gets that replacing-my-busted-up-shaZam!-that-I-wrecked-'cause-I'm-a-'tard buyer into the stealership a lot faster!
Agreed. Problem is so many people think that a 400 pound, 175 horse bike is a good first bike. Its because something like that is not 'pushed' onto us like it is in other countries with limitations on new riders.
400lbs and 175 hp is closer to a stock Duke 1198 than a 600ss....just saying... :icon_mrgreen:
I just talked with the local Suzuki dealership and they said the GS500F would not be offered in the states next model year.
Mary
Quote from: murf425 on April 11, 2011, 06:22:47 AM
If the scuttlebutt I heard about Kawi is true, Suzie would be insane to quit offering a 500. I asked a Kawi dealer why there was no Ninja 500 this year, and if they were taking a year off to revamp it like they did the 250...ya know, modernize it, make it look better, just give it an overall rebuff. He said that the factory rumors are that the 500 is gone for good! If they put a little work into it, they'd sell like crazy.
In Canada and Japan (and possibly other markets), Kawasaki offers the Ninja 400R in place of the discontinued 500R. It is based on the 650R chassis. Whether or not it makes any sense considering it's only $1200CAD MSRP less, 1kg lighter and offers about 35 less hp compared to the 650R... we'll have to see. In some Canadian provinces, insurance is considerably cheaper for <400cc displacement.
http://www.cyclecanadaweb.com/articles/8590/
Sad, but reckon the writing is on the wall for the GS500. That GFC has had a massive impact on world mc sales...down significantly in US ans Europe. In those areas the Suzuki mantra was and is "inventory reduction".
In Japan, Suzuki's current philosophy is centred around "staying true to the basics", getting down the yen cost of components, and working on those markets - China, India, Indonesia and Asia in general - where in-the-now sales growth potential is seen to exist.
And here's the rub, for a number of reasons those perceieved growth markets do not contain a high demand for the larger capacity machines....demand is for scooter/sub 250cc units. So where does that leave the GS500? Bit of an old fashioned orphan produced in Spain in relatively (global) tiny numbers in a factory where smaller bikes are also manufactured. The GS production line was stopped in 2009 to clear the delivery pipe-lines. The ability to do so has a hint that the machines are probably being built up from existing, rather than just-in-time, component stocks. Sad, but difficult to see a future for a bike that's not currently meeting EU emission standards.
The GS500 is toast...for the same reason Kawasaki ditched the 500R...emission compliance...we have the Ninja 400R here now, and it is comparible to the GS500...45Hp - 30TQ...smaller fuel tank, but is FI and looks pretty sharp...the bike tt_four is talking about that is the Bandit motor is the GSX650F, nice bike but @ 85Hp it isn't a good starter bike...the styling of the Gladius is not loved, so the rumoured 400cc version of it probably won't see the light of day...but they will need something to bring in the new riders...'cause I don't see the line ups forming for the TU250 (ugly IMO) the price is too high...maybe they should consider making an SV400S...or maybe they will update the old original Bandit 400cc engine and come out with a GSX400F
Later.
Are there actually 2011 plated GS500s being sold now? I thought the dealers were still rolling out '09s as new bikes.
You'd have to say that for a lightweight midsize twin, the SV650 is probably the horse to back from Suzuki's point of view.
Quote from: Cosimo_Zaretti on April 12, 2011, 12:20:34 AM
Are there actually 2011 plated GS500s being sold now? I thought the dealers were still rolling out '09s as new bikes.
You'd have to say that for a lightweight midsize twin, the SV650 is probably the horse to back from Suzuki's point of view.
In Australia we had 2010 GS500s. However, what is currently being passed as 2011 has the same colors as the 2010s. So so far, no Real 2011 models. BUT, it's really only around April they start becoming available in Aust any way. So us downunder folks will keep you updated if a real 2011 model emerges.
Michael
Quote from: madjak30 on April 11, 2011, 10:59:02 PM
'cause I don't see the line ups forming for the TU250 (ugly IMO) the price is too high
I like the styling of the TU250, reminds me of a 70's Japanese bike. When it came out it was priced at $3,000, the same as a GZ250. Now Suzuki has jacked the price $1,000 for some reason which I agree is too much for a 250.
-Jessie
Quote from: madjak30 on April 11, 2011, 10:59:02 PM
...maybe they should consider making an SV400S...
There already is an sv400s, I don't remember which country has it, but I've seen it.
http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/suzuki_sv_400_s_2005.php
http://www.suzukicycles.org/SV-series/SV400-SV400S.shtml
52hp and 370lbs sounds like a good upgrade from a GS.
Quote from: Elder_MMHS on April 11, 2011, 09:17:25 PM
In Canada and Japan (and possibly other markets), Kawasaki offers the Ninja 400R in place of the discontinued 500R. It is based on the 650R chassis. Whether or not it makes any sense considering it's only $1200CAD MSRP less, 1kg lighter and offers about 35 less hp compared to the 650R... we'll have to see. I
This is my biggest pet peeve in the motorcycle industry. I know the kawa z750 sells really well, but I don't like the idea of taking a large bike, cutting the engine displacement and selling it as a whole new bike at the same weight, or in a lot of cases, including the z750, it's actually a good bit heavier than the z1000 because they replaced a lot of the nicer parts with cheaper ones. If you're gonna cut the displacement you've gotta find a way to cut the weight while you're at it. Not as big of a deal if you're looking at something like a sportbike that only weighs 350-380lbs, but bikes like the Z1000 already start around 450, and I think the 750cc version is close to 500!
The US need more options but unfortunately the crazy people who prefer race bikes as apposed to ridable machines win out when it comes to what we have available to purchase. No surprise that the GS is on the chopping block. I hope they keep it around. The upgrades everyone talked about would make me purchase one for sure. My next bike MUST be FI!!!!
they are selling 2011 plated made in Brazil bike here in oz...
and there is bikes still made with carbs HD for one
now they have held back releasing a model of gs in country's before
Quote* 1989 GS500E introduced to North America
* 1990 Clip-on handlebars replaced with standard bars.
* 1994 Gunmetal colored rims and slightly different frame color for this model year.
* 1996 Front brakes changed from small and large brake pistons to two equal sized brake pistons.
* 2001 Tank, rear plastics, seat, and tail light redesigned. Carburetor changed from a two-circuit design (pilot jet and main jet) to a three-circuit design ( pilot jet, mid-main jet, main jet) to help with better carburetion throughout the rev range. Loss of "E" designation. Manufacturing resettled from Japan to Spain which also meant some loss in quality.
* 2003 No GS500 model sold in the US.
* 2004 GS500F introduced. A full fairing and oil cooler added.
* 2009 No GS500 model sold in the EU.