Took the GS for a ride today and got to the end of my street and it stalled so I turned the petcock to Reserve and it was fine. Went and filled it up and accidentally left it on Res. Got to my destination and it stalled before I could turn it off.
Went to start it back up and it would idle at like ~750rpm and as soon as you give it any throttle it just died. I let it idle for a minute or two and the idle climbed to around 3000rpm (I had put the petcock back on ON) and went a whole 4 miles and when I came to a stop it died again. Crank crank crank and nothing. Reached down and turned it to PRI and it started up and did the same thing, idled at ~750rpm and eventually went to 3000rpm at idle. I was able to ride it for a few miles and it died again and wouldn't start before the battery died so I had to park it at my buddy's work.
The only "mods" to the bike are a lunchbox K&N installed yesterday and a YZF250 exhaust silencer installed by the previous owner (don't ask, the GS had a turbo on it before).
What could be the culprit? After i installed the K&N I noticed that the bike is a lot more peppier and throttle response is amazing. One thing I forgot about was the hose at the top of the valve cover that goes into the stock airbox. What do I do with it once the K&N is on?
I was doing some reading and saw something about a vacuum hose to the petcock. I don't recall seeing this. My bike is an '89
Rejet ? K&N and pipe ... big change in jetting needed.
BTW the super low idle and the hanging high idle as well as refusal to start can all be lean ... yes, in rare situations it can also seriously lose Rpm when lean. The sign of being rich @ idle is not the low rpm Idle, its dropping below the set idle rpm and climbing back to the idle rpm when you blip the throttle.
You're lean my friend, very very very Lindsay Lohan lean.
Cool.
Buddha.
So should I throw the stock airbox back in until I can rejet it and such?
I also have a Vance & Hines system I need to install.
Yea you're likely to really make it worse with the pipe.
I'd run the airbox till rejet, and do K&N and pipe and jet all @ the same time. Or, jet it and pipe it before riding it again.
You can jet it, dont need no steenkin shop, you pulled the airbox out right, that is 90% right there. Another 2 mins and you'd ahve the carbs out ...
What year is the bike - the jets depend on that.
Cool.
Buddha.
It's an 89. I took out the carbs before to clean them when I first got it.
You sell the proper jets right? Let me know a price for the ones I need for an 89 GS500 with a V&H pipe and K&N filter :) Thank you sir, you are definitely one of the most helpful people on here.
UPDATE.
I put the new jets in and put it all back together (minus battery and air filter)
Jumped it and it started up but idled really low. Gave it some gas and it died so I started it up and it did the same thing then backfired out the carb. Then it just cranked and cranked and cranked. Would not start again. I am at my wits end here as to what is going on.
I'm about to just drop it off at the bike shop and say fux it and fix it.
What am I doing wrong here? Mixing up a hose when putting it back together? :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :dunno_black:
Are you sure there is gas in the carbs? You need to set the petcock to prime id it hasn't had gas in it recently.
yes the petcock is set to prime
Carb Vent hose clogged/kinked ? Why no air filter ?
Cool.
buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on May 31, 2011, 08:51:19 PM
Carb Vent hose clogged/kinked ? Why no air filter ?
Cool.
buddha.
The carb vent hose is the hose on top, between the 2 carbs, right? The feed goes on the bottom? And no air filter because I just wanted to see if the damn thing would run and it wouldn't.
Assuming your compression is ok, that leaves spark and fuel. Spark is easy to test so that's what I would check next (even though it's probably fine). Either your idle is set way too low (worth checking into) or your pilot jet is somehow dirty already.
Did you check for gas in the carbs? Just because it's on prime, doesn't guarantee that there is gas.
Rust in the tank and flow from the petcocks as well as tank vent are all suspects too.
Cool.
Buddha.
yeh when you left it on res it could have sucked in alot rust. take apart the carbs and check it out
It was PRI which should be unrestricted flow, right? :icon_arrow:
i mean should i take the tank petcock out and blow it out? the tank doesnt look all THAT bad inside
Bringing it to the shop next week unless I can fix it.
Quote from: Garrett on June 02, 2011, 12:19:03 PM
Bringing it to the shop next week unless I can fix it.
K we do this the messy way.
Open the drain screw with the petcock in prime. Should flow like a river.
If not, remove the line from the petcock to the carbs. Flow line a river ... If not ...
Remove the line to the frame petcock. Flow like a river ... if not, then the tank petcock is the first culprit.
Cool.
Buddha.
I feel like a dickhead, the drain screw is on the bottom of the carbs, correct? :technical: :icon_neutral:
When I put the petcock on RES I pulled the feedline off the petcock from the tank and got covered in fuel.
Quote from: Garrett on June 01, 2011, 09:22:03 AM
It was PRI which should be unrestricted flow, right? :icon_arrow:
i mean should i take the tank petcock out and blow it out? the tank doesnt look all THAT bad inside
yes please check all possible suspects. the stuff buddha mentioned and any other component invovled in the fuel/air delivery system
I am wondering if I crossed something when I put it back together.
is this correct? Pic is from ebay.
(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3342/carb.png)
Where does the vacuum tube for the petcock go? On the side of the one of the carbs, right?
Quote from: Garrett on June 02, 2011, 01:10:38 PM
I am wondering if I crossed something when I put it back together.
is this correct? Pic is from ebay.
(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/3342/carb.png)
Where does the vacuum tube for the petcock go? On the side of the one of the carbs, right?
That is correct.The vacuum port is on the left carb near the copper tube on the back and side.I will get a pic of mine in a bit and post it.
Awesome. I will pull my tank off tinight and check/clean the tank petcock after pulling the drain screws and feed line to see if its getting fuel.
If you could get a pic and maybe label things Id be forever grateful :) thanks a bunch.
My vacuum ports are capped off with automotive type vacuum port covers.
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb17/ben_2_go/Motorcycle%20Stuff/carbvacuumports2-1.jpg)
Wait there are two? I only remember one line going to the frame petcock. should there be two?
Quote from: Garrett on June 02, 2011, 02:56:05 PM
Wait there are two? I only remember one line going to the frame petcock. should there be two?
only on the left side. follow #53 in the diagram http://www.bikebandit.com/1994-suzuki-gs500er/o/m6054#sch245352 (http://www.bikebandit.com/1994-suzuki-gs500er/o/m6054#sch245352)
i believe the right side is blocked internally..or it should be anyway
Pulled the tank. Cleaned the pet chicken. Check for fuel at the feed line, my hand got covered in fuel so that's a yes.
Started it up. Let it idle for a minute. Gave it some gas. Stumbled then died. Now just cranks and cranks and cranks. I am totally lost.
Quote from: Garrett on June 02, 2011, 02:56:05 PM
Wait there are two? I only remember one line going to the frame petcock. should there be two?
My bike has two operational vacuum ports.Why,I dunno.None of my other bikes have two.Just the one shown in the carb diagram above.
Quote from: Garrett on June 02, 2011, 06:02:35 PM
Pulled the tank. Cleaned the pet chicken. Check for fuel at the feed line, my hand got covered in fuel so that's a yes.
Started it up. Let it idle for a minute. Gave it some gas. Stumbled then died. Now just cranks and cranks and cranks. I am totally lost.
Make sure the petcock is set on PRI(prime).Also check the tank petcock to make sure it is turned on.
Affirmative to both of those. :dunno_black: :dunno_black: :dunno_black: :dunno_black: :dunno_black: :dunno_black:
Are you now getting good flow out of the carb drains with petcock on 'prime'?
Have you checked float height?
WEnt out to try to start it. Smelled fuel. Noticed the carbs were not attached. WTF. reach my hand on the air filter to push them. air filter is SOAKED in fuel.
Put the carbs back in and tightened the clamps. Started up. Idled at like 3k with out the choke. Dialed the idle back to ~900rpm. Shot back up to 3k as soon as I revved it and stayed there. Dialed the idle back again to ~900. That's where it's staying with the petcock on ON.
Stalled after a few minutes. Went out and started it up. Died instantly. Put the petcock to RES and it started up. Put petcock back to ON and revved it. Jumped the idle up to 4,000RPM. Dialed the idle screw back to ~900.
Stalled again. Started it up on RES. Idle slowly climbed to 4,000rpm again. Dialed back to ~1000rpm and holding.
Idle climbed back up to 3,000RPM. DIaled idle screw back to ~1000 and holding
Sounds like you may have bad float needle(s) or a sticking float hinge.Fuel soaked air filter is a sure sign of sticking floats.I would seriously suspect that there is fuel in the oil sump.If the oil level is high or smells like gas.It needs to be changed.Fuel in the oil will wash the cylinders and bearings of oil.It will also thin the oil out.
Float needles being the small things that mount to number 28
(http://a.bikebandit.com/assets/dzimages/suzuki/dzsuz008/su0083_013_files/11/2_3.png)
It's been holding idle for ~10 minutes. I just revved it and it revs up fine but it "sticks" when it's coming back down to idle.
The floats are number 28 on that diagram, and yes,the needles are the little things that connect to them and have a pointed end.I don't have a set free or I would post a pic of them.You could also have bad O rings on the needles seat allowing fuel to flow around the needle and seat assembly.
So would you recommend replacing the floats and needles?
http://www.bikebandit.com/1989-suzuki-gs500ek/o/m6049#sch246540
which one is the float needle?
Quote from: Garrett on June 03, 2011, 09:51:07 AM
So would you recommend replacing the floats and needles?
If they are sticking I would replace the needles,seats,and O rings.Here is where most of us get our carb rebuild kits.It's about half way down the page.P/N #48-1947 http://www.partsnmore.com/parts/suzuki/gs500e/?filters[fitting]=custom
I replaced the o-rings when I jetted it
Quote from: Garrett on June 03, 2011, 09:52:36 AM
http://www.bikebandit.com/1989-suzuki-gs500ek/o/m6049#sch246540
which one is the float needle?
Needle and seat assembly is No.33 and O ring is 34.
They're out of stock. Crap.
Also use this write up to check your floats to see if they need to be adjusted. http://gstwin.com/float_height_check.htm
The fuel level should be checked on a level surface with the bike on the center stand.The fuel level should be set at the split between the carb body and carb bowl.Bending the little brass tab on the float raises or lowers the fuel level.bending the tab up,lowers the fuel level and bending the tab down, raises the fuel level.
Quote from: Garrett on June 03, 2011, 10:00:37 AM
They're out of stock. Crap.
This place is higher but usually in stock.Still way cheaper than the dealer. http://www.oldbikebarn.com/Suzuki-GS500-GSX1000-Carb-Repair-Kit?sc=12&category=73881
Ordered.
I've got a new petcock and carb rebuild kit (float needles and gaskets basically) coming this week. If it doesn't fix it then it's going to the shop.
If you were in my area,I'd lend you a hand fixing the issue.
your getting more out of this than you think though, after this you'll know this bike in and out. Its frustrating, but its a great learning experience.
I had similar problems with my GS for a week or two. When I rebuilt the carbs, which I had never done before, i discovered both float needles were completely siezed and I had symptons like your describing. Get the carbs off, buy the Clymer manual and be patient with it. Make sure the float is within spec by doing the hanging test, make sure the needle is set correctly. Check the bottom of the float chamber for rust. Check to make sure the little o-ring is on top of the diaphram. Check that the main jet has an o-ring as well. All the little things count on the carbs, the devil is in the details.
Once that is all clicking, get it back on the bike. Make sure to reset the mixture screws on the bottom and then turn it out 2 turns out. Fine tune and adjust from there.
Carbs are not a set science at all, it takes some practice and eventually you'll know what your bike likes.
Here is the tuning procedure for our type of carbs.It explains how each part effects the running of the engine.
http://www.factorypro.com/tech_tuning_procedures/tuning_carbtune,CV,high_rpm_engines.html
Do you happen to have a pic of the mixture screw? I did not adjust it when I jetted them.
Just for you my friend.
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb17/ben_2_go/Motorcycle%20Stuff/carbmixscrews.jpg)
So I "tighten" them, then back them out the required number of turns? thank you so much sir.
Just snug, not tight. Lightly seated then out 3 turns.
Cool.
buddha.
Awesome guys, thanks for bearing with such a noob and answering all my dumb questions :)
You're welcome.
I pulled the tank and air filter off and noticed the carb as not seated all the way :icon_eek:and started it up. It ran smoother than before but everytime I gave it throttle drops of fuel were being shot out the carbs :dunno_black: Is that normal?
Shot out of where ? no its not normal.
Cool.
Buddha.
it shot out of the cab toward the air filter :dunno_black: It wasn't a lot but it was a noticable amount.
Also, one of my mixture screws is fubared. It won't turn and the screw top itself is all broken
I pulled the top part, diaphram I think, off and number 5 on both sides was just laying inside number 9:
(http://images.powersportsnetwork.com/fiche/images/SUZUKI/1989/Motorcycles/2103_12.gif)
:dunno_black: Where does number 5 go?
#5 goes on top of the needle and clip that is in #9.It sounds like you need to buy another set of carbs and use yours for spare parts.I'll post a pic since you haven't seen my carb write up. http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=56601.0
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb17/ben_2_go/Motorcycle%20Stuff/Mikuni%20BST33SS%20Carbs/needleassembly.jpg)
Quote from: Garrett on June 03, 2011, 09:49:01 AM
It's been holding idle for ~10 minutes. I just revved it and it revs up fine but it "sticks" when it's coming back down to idle.
My '94 acted like that when I bought it in 2008. The bike ran good but the idle would hang, especially once hot. I put Marvel Mystery Oil in the gas and ran it. The problem slowly got better and after many treated tanks went away completely. My bike now runs like it should all the time. It's good to be lucky once in a while.
Started to rebuilt the carbs with the kit I bought. I put a new O-ring on the float assembly and now it doesn't seat all the way down, is this going to be a problem? Same with the piece that the float need seals.
Quote from: Garrett on June 17, 2011, 03:21:45 PM
Started to rebuilt the carbs with the kit I bought. I put a new O-ring on the float assembly and now it doesn't seat all the way down, is this going to be a problem? Same with the piece that the float need seals.
Did you lightly oil them so they would slide in?They are tight to keep vibrations from wiggling them loose.I use WD-40 because it will burn through when the engine starts and not cause any problems.Engine oil or 2 stroke oil will work also.
Got them to stay in while I put it back together.
backed the mixture screw out 3 turns on both of them.
Put the bike back together. Idled and revved with no problems. Took it 300 feet down the road and it stalled and then wouldn't start.
I f%$king give up. It's going in the shop, I'm tired of dealing with it. There is nothing left to fix. Carb rebuild, new petcock, clean fuel strainer etc
Have you cleaned the fuel cap?That is how the tank gets air so a vacuum doesn't form as the carbs use fuel.It's a common issue. http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=41061.0
I'll try that tomorrow.
Quote from: Garrett on June 17, 2011, 08:34:34 PM
I'll try that tomorrow.
You can test this theory.Set the petcock on PRI.Ride it until it stalls.If it doesn't stall you know it's the petcock.If it does stall.Open the fuel cap for roughly two minutes.Then close it and try to start again.If you're up and running,you know it's the fuel cap.
So keep it on PRI for the entire ride?
The petcock is brand new fyi
Quote from: Garrett on June 17, 2011, 08:43:43 PM
So keep it on PRI for the entire ride?
The petcock is brand new fyi
Yes, it eliminates it as a problem.The petcock is fine but the vacuum line may have collapsed internally.It happened to my bike after I first got it.Then I converted it to no vacuum.
Tried to take it for a ride to test your theory. Started it up after a bit of cranking. Gave it some throttle and it died. Tried starting it for ten minutes. Would not start. Loosened bowl screws and fuel came out of both. Stumped.
Quote from: Garrett on June 18, 2011, 05:47:47 PM
Tried to take it for a ride to test your theory. Started it up after a bit of cranking. Gave it some throttle and it died. Tried starting it for ten minutes. Would not start. Loosened bowl screws and fuel came out of both. Stumped.
If it's not a fuel issue then it's either electrical or in the ignition system.
Checked spark. Both plugs are firing. Sprayed ether directly into the cylinder head and put the plug back in and cranked it. Nothing.
Prior, I cranked it while holding the throttle wide open for a few times, then pulled the plugs. Dry as a damn bone.
The fuel bowls still have fuel in them and the petcock was set to PRI. :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical: :technical:
both plugs might be firing in air but under compression things can change...
Dropping it off tomorrow.