Here is it when it started: I was removing the tank and when a hose broke off(it was brittle), that was before I even managed to turn the fuel off, so I got a major spill(I'm guessing about a liter), after turning the valve to off I cleaned the parts where I saw gas hit the bike with a wet cloth. After changing the fuel line and all, I decided to give the bike a good wash.
Two days later when I tried to use it it had a serious starting problem, by the sound it was like the battery was bad, but I could still start it with some effort, so I did and took of, on the way back, even though the bike was already cold(parked for 4 hours) it started right up, and when I got home I let it cool for about 1 hour and still started pretty easily. Knowing of the problem it didn't use the bike today and tried to check what I could, now I really can't get the starter motor to run properly, the battery I have is almost brand new, and I tried the old battery(that still worked, it just wasn't that good) and with both same problem happens. So I decided to measure the current drawed from the battery when I pushed the starter button, I've already measured it in the past when it was working properly, about 45A, but now, to my surprise, it drawed up to 103A in one case, and in all cases, above 65A.
I removed the cover of the starter motor and there was apparently no gas or water, but I decided to push start it and let it heat up with the cover off, it's there in this moment, but as I don't think it will work(I can't smell gas from there), here I come to ask for help/ideas :dunno_black:
Ok, turned the bike off and it started again by "regular" means, but as it still so hot that doesn't prove much, no I'm waiting it to cool. There is hope
The bike is still too hot to touch in a few areas and I already can't get it started :icon_sad:
You took off the top plate covering the actual gear motor and smell gas?That is usually a sign of fuel mixing with the oil.The only thing that causes that is a carb float hung open,allowing gas to flow freely into the engine when it's not running.The high amp draw could be several things 1)weak battery,2)starter motor bearings/bushings dragging,3)a bad ground,4) a bad power wire to starter.As voltage in the battery drops the starter motor will pull more amps.When you are getting high amp readings the battery voltage is probably low.
i had a starting problem today after work too.... dam fuel :dunno_white:
oh well had me a reserve, the only down side was that i got a little light headed going down the highway following beside the hot chick in the Mazda 3. so i had to get fuel in the city and pay an extra 50c a little.
Quote from: ben2go on May 03, 2011, 09:26:00 PM
You took off the top plate covering the actual gear motor and smell gas?That is usually a sign of fuel mixing with the oil.The only thing that causes that is a carb float hung open,allowing gas to flow freely into the engine when it's not running.The high amp draw could be several things 1)weak battery,2)starter motor bearings/bushings dragging,3)a bad ground,4) a bad power wire to starter.As voltage in the battery drops the starter motor will pull more amps.When you are getting high amp readings the battery voltage is probably low.
I said the opposite, I can't smel gas from there, and the cover I took of was the starter motor one as I said, the black one. It's just that I thought the spill could get inside the starting motor, but now I think the problems I'm having are totally unrelated from the previous one.
But I don't see how it could be a bad battery, and how a low voltage battery would draw more amps? Or maybe you meant the battery voltage on load would drop more, then you are correct, it's.
Is it easy to open the starter motor to check its inside?
I tried jumping start it with a car(with it off), and it also didn't work.
I push started it again and after letting the bike warm, like I did yesterday, I couldn't get it started, it only got worse from startable but problematic to impossible unless the bike was hot to now the current situation, impossible at all times :dunno_white:
It could be a good idea to take off the filler cap and take a wiff to be sure there is not gas in the crankcase after a spill like that. Can you check all of the connections? On my jeep I once did an oil change where I got oil all over the engine and some oil got onto the starter motor wire connection and was causing some resistance intermitently. I ended up cleaning off the connections and reinstalling and everything was fine. perhaps the gasoline dissolved some grease or dirt and then left it in a connection when it evaporated. I would still expect that to give a low current reading rather than high though. Also check to make sure that everything you messed with when you took the tank off is back to normal how it was before. We have all put something back together wrong with the best of intentions.
The filler cap stick doesn't smell like gas, also if there is anything wrong besides the starting wiring/motor I wouldn't be able to start the bike by pushing start, would I?
I didn't disconnected all connections, but checked what I could find and none are corroded or too dirty.
I give up, I'm guessing it's something in the starter motor that it's the issue, I would need to get parts anyway, and here if I need parts fast the only place I can get them is at the dealer, so I'll just let them check it.
Thanks for the help though
The starter motor cover should be sealed.No gas smell from the crank case is a good thing.Your problem is electrical.
Watts / Volts = Amps Your stater is rated at 360 watts divided by 12 volts which equals to 30 amps.
360W / 12V = 30A
As voltage drops the amps go up because the watt rating of the starter does not change.Only the voltage changes.
360W / 11.5V = 31.30A
The only other thing that can cause amperage to go up is resistance caused by a bad wire, bad connection, or bad ground.All grounds must be on clean rust free steel and all terminals must be free of corrosion.I have been a mechanic in some form since junior high school.I am not new to this game.Yes,I am becoming and old fart.
+1 I agree with Ben.
Check the ground wire to the frame. Check the terminals on the battery. Check the terminals on the starter motor. Make sure these are all clean (use some sandpaper?) and greased with di-electric grease. Then try again. Make sure your battery is charged.
Quote from: 5thAve on May 04, 2011, 10:43:59 AM
+1 I agree with Ben.
Check the ground wire to the frame. Check the terminals on the battery. Check the terminals on the starter motor. Make sure these are all clean (use some sandpaper?) and greased with di-electric grease. Then try again. Make sure your battery is charged.
Is there there more than one wire going to the starter motor? I could only find one(but I didn't remove it from the bike). If so, I checked all wires mentioned, and the only one I didn't loosen was the starter motor, as its condition was good and the cover placed over it protected it from getting dirt.
About Ben's theory of constant consumption, I'm sorry, but I disagree, an electric motor running directly from a power source, meaning no power supply to make the output to it constant, will not have a constant consumption, as its resistance will not change, meaning if I'm getting more amps than usual, there is less resistance on the circuit(even if it's some type of short on the way or in the starter motor)
Oh, I should also mention, now the surge doesn't happen at all times, with the clamp meter in a few times the current drawed was normal.
I also measured the voltage when trying to crank, about 11~11.5v, looks good to me.
11 volts and 100 amps? I don't think the battery would even do that, but I'm just speculating. Yes, a weak battery that can not turn the starter (for whatever reason) will cause very high current. If a motor is connected to a power source, but the rotor is not turning, current is high. Doesn't matter what the voltage is. I'm with Ben on this one. <edit> except the part about resistance (poor connections) causing current to go up</edit>
If the battery is indeed good, and all connections are good, the starter is suspect. Next is something not letting the engine turn.