So I just adjusted the play on my chain because it ways way over spec--50mm of play, at least at the point where I happened to check. I reduced the play to 25mm, but as I turned the rear wheel to make sure it was the same all around, I lost all play and the wheel became difficult to turn.
The rear sprocket looks good--no worn or broken teeth. The chain isn't rusted, and I couldn't find any obvious kinks when I inspected it. I'm wondering what's wrong with it. It looks like the previous owner didn't take very good care of the bike--the valve clearances were under spec when I checked them, and now there's this thing with the chain. I guess he just loosened the slack on the chain rather than bothering to replace it. So I'm assuming I have to replace the chain. I think I'll keep the sprockets for now though, as they seem OK.
So I'm wondering what issue with the chain could be causing this problem. Also, where's a good place to buy a new chain?
Chain stretch. When the chains wear out, they can stretch unevenly, causing loose and tight spots. Running too little slack can also cause this problem - the chain gets stretched abruptly when suspension action pulls on the chain.
When you adjust the chain, adjust it at the tightest point. If the chain is too loose elsewhere... Well, nothing can be done about it except to replace.
burning1 is most likely correct. Uneven sprocket wear could also be contributing. Best to replace sprockets (at least front sprocket) along with getting new chain anyway.
Thanks for clearing that up. I think I'll replace the chain and sprockets. I've heard the rear sprocket doesn't always need to be replaced with the chain, but I suspect that the previous owner of my bike rode it hard and never lubed the chain. Why else would the chain already be thrashed after 10000 miles? So even though the rear sprocket looks fine, I figure I might as well change it along with the other parts, even if just for peace of mind.
So after searching around I think I figured out what chain and sprockets will work for my 2008f. I plan on getting this front sprocket:
http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp;jsessionid=3I5CQBWBQLGGLQFIDYFCM4WAVAPAQIV0?store=Main&skuId=8006716&mmy=12500172
and this chain:
http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp?skuId=110106110&store=Main&catId=&productId=p110106&leafCatId=&mmyId=
and this rear sprocket:
http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp?skuId=&store=Main&catId=&productId=p81090&leafCatId=&mmyId=
Will this work? And will I need any special tools like a chain breaker?
I just put that same Parts Unlimited chain on my 02 GS with a JTF front sprocket. That Sunstar front sprocket is excellent quality but kinda pricey @ $25 for my tastes. You can get a JTF516.16 front sprocket for $16 from Dennis Kirk to match the JTF rear sprocket you're ordering.
I've never replaced a rear sprock on any of my bikes so far and have only used DID and RT chains up until now on my GSs for over 160k miles. I cut the oem front chain off with a hack saw and use a clip type link to put on the new one.
http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp;jsessionid=YS4ZDCZNLNDNBQFIDYFCM4WAVAPAQIV0?store=Main&skuId=8098516&mmy=
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GSbrakeschains.jpg
I would go with a 15T front if I was going to replace it... Some say the 15T actually helps mileage because of the lower ratios and gives more torque in every gear...
Oiling a dry chain.
The chain on Trey seemed fine - until I oiled it. Seems it was totally dry. Oiling it caused some of the o rings to swell and make the linkages stick. So at some points, the chain seemed fine (stuck links were over the sprocket) then turning more the chain got tight - because the stuck links didn't straighten out.
New chain is the solution.
As a test, look at your chain. In the straight parts, are there kinks? Do you have links that don't freely move with your fingers when you wiggle them? I had some that wouldn't straighten out even with pliers. Now that's swollen o-rings!
GSJack, I noticed from that list you posted that you recently switched from a 16 to a 15 tooth front sprocket. How would you compare the two? Also, I'm not clear on why it's necessary to cut or break the chain and then reconnect it. The how-to's I found on the wiki don't mention cutting the chain, although they're a bit unclear on this point. But just from looking at the bike it seems like it should be possible to remove the old chain and slip on the new one without having to break either. What am I missing?
Crzy, thanks for the tip on going with a 15 tooth front sprocket. I was considering this but I don't really need the extra torque and I thought it would reduce my mpg's. Since you mention it wouldn't reduce mpg's, though, I may go with a 15 tooth.
Adidas, I'll check for kinks in the chain tomorrow. But as you point out, it will be necessary to change it whether I find any or not. I figured it was either a kink somewhere or that the chain got stretched.
My experience is that the rear sprocket generally wears faster than the front, especially if you're running an aluminum sprocket in the back. Can't comment on changing the gearing for the street, but on the track -1 in the front, and +1 in the back is probably a good starting place unless you have some unbelievably long straights - I'm no where near the powerband in 6th at our local tracks.
Looks like you're buying a steel sprocket. +1 to that idea, steel lasts much longer than aluminum, and the weight savings isn't worth much for street use.
To replace the chain, you'll need to cut the old chain off. A hacksaw or dremmel work fine here... Either saw a link in half, or grind the end off one of the pins and push it through using a chain tool or punch (i know the chain tool will work, not so sure about the punch.)
Installing the new chain, either use a clip-style master link, or install a rivet style chain using a chain tool.
If you are still on the original chain you will find its of the endless type ie: It does not feature a joint. To remove it you need to either cut it by whatever method you choose, or owing to the way the chain runs through the frame and swingarm....... remove the back wheel and swingarm.
Now its time to make a choice, buy another endless chain, hook it up and refit the swinger/back wheel or buy an open length and make the joint yourself with a clip or by riveting the ends together with a tool when its in position.
Now the debate starts.....endless or jointed :D Some people swear by clip- jointed chains, some people swear at them, owning to past experiences (and as one or two in here will confirm) I am one of the latter. Some will say they have done KKKKs on them without issue and some like me have suffered an out of the blue breakage.....the consequences of which turned out to be very expensive and very inconvenient. Fact is masterlinks can and do fail.....(there was a very good photo of one in the site gallery)....and if it was to happen to you, you will instantly wish you had gone for the riveted/endless option particularly if you were to be in the same circumstances as I was when mine failed.
Jointed or endless??? the choice is yours but something to bare in mind..........if you haven't got a clip-jointed chain, then there is no clip to fail
Incidentally Suzuki themselves make the following comment on page 43 of the owners manual, thats the little yellow 4"x6" one that a lot of people haven't seen.
Quote... NOTE: The chain is an endless type chain (no master link) for maximum strength. Chain replacement requires removal of the swingarm. Trust this work only to a qualified mechanic. Never install a masterlink type chain ...unquote
Edit......found it.
(http://gstwins.com/photogallery/displayimage.php?album=lastupby&cat=0&pos=0&uid=56)
Quote from: paalak on June 19, 2011, 11:07:08 PM
GSJack, I noticed from that list you posted that you recently switched from a 16 to a 15 tooth front sprocket. How would you compare the two? Also, I'm not clear on why it's necessary to cut or break the chain and then reconnect it. The how-to's I found on the wiki don't mention cutting the chain, although they're a bit unclear on this point. But just from looking at the bike it seems like it should be possible to remove the old chain and slip on the new one without having to break either. What am I missing?
Crzy, thanks for the tip on going with a 15 tooth front sprocket. I was considering this but I don't really need the extra torque and I thought it would reduce my mpg's. Since you mention it wouldn't reduce mpg's, though, I may go with a 15 tooth.
Adidas, I'll check for kinks in the chain tomorrow. But as you point out, it will be necessary to change it whether I find any or not. I figured it was either a kink somewhere or that the chain got stretched.
I put a 15T front sprocket on my 97 GS at 37k miles and used a 15T on that bike until I replaced it with my present 02 GS after the 97 was totalled at 80k miles. I always felt the 97 GS needed it and would always put one on a 2000 or older GS for my usage. Never felt the need of it on my current 02 GS which is much stronger in the mid range with the 3 circuit carbs than the 97 was with the 2 circuit carbs. After putting 86k miles on the 02 I just thought I'd try a 15T sprocket to see how it is. Got mixed feelings about it but only a few hundred miles on it so far, probably a little better but not necessary I think. Your needs may vary.
My irregular chain freeplay has always been due to kinky links after the chain seals get worn usually showing up in the spring after splashing thru another winters salt water on the streets of NE Ohio, salt capital of the universe. :icon_lol:
Hmm, not sure where I stand on the endless vs. jointed chain debate. A chain snapping while riding doesn't sound like a good day :icon_eek: but after looking at the swing arm removal and reassembly process in the service manual I don't know if I'd want to go through all that. How do you know if the chain you're buying is endless or not? The Dennis Kirk site doesn't seem to give that info in the specs for its chains. I may go with an endless chain, since even though installing it would be a pain I'm sure I'd learn a lot in the process. But I'll probably just take my chances with a jointed chain, and maybe go with an endless next time. Do I need a riveting tool to install the master link? And do the chains come with master links or do I need to buy one separately?
Think I'll go with a 16 tooth front sprocket for now, just to keep the RPMs down on the highway.
2 words for you ... belt drive.
Cool.
Buddha.
A belt drive would be awesome, I'd definitely be willing to pay a bit extra to put one on. Did a little searching and couldn't find a how-to for this though. I think it would be a little beyond my skill set at this point :dunno_black:
So does the Parts Unlimited chain I linked above come with a riveted or clip-on type link? I read that riveted is more secure. And should I get a riveter? I read about some people using vice grips but I wouldn't mind paying for a cheap riveter off of eBay to make sure I don't screw it up my first chain change.
Endless chains use a rivet type master link. I would not recommend using vice grips. A chain rivet tool is the correct tool for this job.
The Parts Unlimited chain you linked comes with a clip type master link. Says so in bold type near the bottom of the page you linked and besides I just put one on. I have/will always use the clip type master links and others will probably always use the rivet type or an oem continuous type. Your bike, your choice but I wouldn't worry about a clip type that's properly installed.
Quote from: gsJack on June 20, 2011, 12:30:10 PM
The Parts Unlimited chain you linked comes with a clip type master link. Says so in bold type near the bottom of the page you linked and besides I just put one on. I have/will always use the clip type master links and others will probably always use the rivet type or an oem continuous type. Your bike, your choice but I wouldn't worry about a clip type that's properly installed.
lol, I see where it says that on the page in bold, don't know how I missed that. So would a chain press tool still be useful for installing a clip link? I'm considering picking up this breaker/press package from eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270744061035&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT#ht_1247wt_732
I've never used any special chain tools for removing or installing chains. The clip type master links originally had side plates that just slipped on. When they changed the slip fit ones to pressed on ones I just pressed them on with a pair of arcjoint pliers for a number of years until I couldn't do it that way anymore so I press them on with a small C-clamp now. I put a small socket around one of the pins and squeeze over the chain and socket to press it on a bit then to the other pin and back and forth a couple times until it's in place to apply the clip.
Just be sure you've pressed it on far enough for the clip to get fully into the pin grooves. Should be able to put the larger end of the clip slot over the pin and slide the clip freely until it bottms the smaller end of the slot into the pin groove. Check at both pins. A few minutes here to get it right and you'll never throw a clip assuming you put it on headed in the right direction. Closed end of clip leads in direction of rotation and open end follows.
Thanks for explaining how it works, definitely sounds like it wouldn't be easy for that clip to come off. Just ordered the chain and sprockets, now I just have to wait for them to get here. I'll be changing both tires as well, so it will be a long day of wrenching. :)
The in-between setting on your paranoia/work dial is to put a complete spare masterlink in your toolkit. In the event of a de-linking, the chain is usually easy to find.
I'd love a belt. Almost got a belt-drive Kawa 440 once. No lube and good for ~100,000 miles - that is a drive system!
Not to hijack the thread but in the process of changing my oil today, I spent a lot of time on the ground and noticed my chain is rusting a bit. I will try to get a picture or two in the morning, but when -- if there is even a general time -- should chains be replaced? I have an 05 with ~14k miles and thought it was odd to see some rust. The rear sprocket looks good still and honestly haven't sat down and look at the front :dunno_black:
I did test the chain play in probably the most unofficial way possible as I don't know what the right way is. I will scour the wiki soon but in the meantime I realized my chain can be picked up toward the seat substantially(2-3") but pushed down very little (~0.5"). Is this meaningful in any context? I still have a lottttt to learn but am very appreciative of the knowledge I've found on this site so far.