OK, this one stumps me. Everything is connected correctly. But today I ran out of gas, Switched to reserve - nothing. Prime: nothing. Tank was empty.
Now here is the strange thing I saw when I got home. The fuel tap on Trey is different than the one on Junior. It seems that Trey is backwards :dunno_black:
In the picture, I indicated the standard positions. Note that FUEL and RES are on opposite sides of the fuel tap. Also note where I put PRIME. That shows the direction the long part of the valve goes. On other words, Trey turns counter clockwise, with PRIME having the long part of the lever to the right. Junior is opposite - the lever turns the opposite way.
Do we have 2 different fuel taps? Could Trey's have been taken apart and put back together wrong? All other things on them are identical - size, shape, hose connections.
Always been taught that down is ON, sideways is prime and UP is reserve.
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb442/adidasguy/GS500/Fuel_Valves.jpg)
Those pictures are different. In the top photo, down is "on" and sideways (aft) is "reserve" with top being prime in both. The bottom reserve is sideways fwd.
My 94 is the same as the bottom.
Good to confirm that "that's the way it is: backwards"
I have 2 choices:
1. LABEL then clearly - noting whether it turns clockwise or counter clockwise.
2. Reverse the hoses so it works like everyone expects.
Assume prime is still the middle position on both.
Thanks for the info.
Other than the direction of the lever, any other way to tell which is which?
They are different....that's what he's pointing out.
Check your tank petcock/hose routing- the diagram in the manual(s) is/are sometimes pictured backwards.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=50892.msg575902#msg575902
Assuming you are not the original owner, perhaps the original owner 'detail stripped' the petcock and put that front 'plate' on upside down? It looks like it snaps in place if you removed the switch.
"ON" should be pointing towards the ground, "RES" should be pointing forward (towards your front wheel), and "PRI" should be straight up.
Yep - aware of how the switch SHOULD be positioned. And the hoses are correct.
Remember the labels are opposite and one turns clockwise, the other turns counterclockwise.
I may have to see if I have a spare and take it apart. Possibly it can be put back together backwards, or there is a nearly identical fuel valve from a different bike that is opposite but looks the same otherwise.
One turns left - one turns right. That is a big clue that something is different and/or wrong with one of them.
reversetrike describes the correct way and how Junior operates. Trey is opposite - and when turned to prime it hits the plastic fairings. Yet another clue that something is different with Trey's fuel valve.
Has anyone taken one apart and found you can put it back together backwards?
If not, I will find a spare and take it apart then report back.
It sounds like it has to be assembled backwards. If its turning backwards and hitting the fairing something is definitely wrong.
One of the petcocks may have had the vacuum elimination done on it which cause the ON and RES to change.One position becomes off. See if this helps explain it. http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=19363.0
Instead of driving yourself crazy just reset your trip odometer when you fill-up, every 200 miles. You'll never run out of gas again.
Lets get back to the original question:
Are there 2 different fuel valves?
OR could it have been taken apart and put back together backwards/upside-down?
There SHOULD have been reserve - there wasn't. It turns the opposite way from others.
Quote from: adidasguy on July 21, 2011, 04:27:33 PM
Lets get back to the original question:
Are there 2 different fuel valves?
OR could it have been taken apart and put back together backwards/upside-down?
There SHOULD have been reserve - there wasn't. It turns the opposite way from others.
The two in the picture are the same.The other petcocks that are different, look very different from the ones above.It may be possible that the petcock was reassembled wrong.I will try to find one of my old ones and confirm it.
It doesn't seem possible to reverse the selector cone inside without modifying the cone.
The correct way.
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb17/ben_2_go/Motorcycle%20Stuff/petcock2-1.jpg)
The incorrect way won't work with out enlarging the slot.It could be forced to work but I think some other issues or leaks would come up.
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb17/ben_2_go/Motorcycle%20Stuff/petcock-1.jpg)
Mine was an '03...and straight up was RES, middle was PRI, and down was RUN...maybe the newer bikes are different, but it was the same way you have the pic for Junior labelled...
but Jacob & ReverseTrike are saying something different...straight up is PRI, middle is RES, and down is RUN...so I would say that there are different valves...
I know, this probably isn't very helpful...but there it is... :dunno_black:
Later.
I have an extra fuel valve now so I will perform an autopsy soon to see what's up. Today, I put on RESERVE (UP) to see if it has been farkled with to bypass the vacuum. As someone said, if that was done, then either UP or sideways would turn fuel off. If fuel goes off (full tank, can flip switch back to down) then I know it has been farkled with and needs to be swapped with the extra one I now have. If not, then it will require further study and dissection. When I do, I'll compare with ben2's info.
FYI: I do reset the trip meter. Based on that, I was due to fill up and was on my way to do that. If reserve was working right, I should have been OK when fuel ran out. Unfortunately, tank was empty! Good thing is I already was to the top of the big hill and only had 5 blocks to push to the gas station. I think I'll get a quart emergency tank to keep in the tail bag until I get all this sorted out. Good idea on road trips, too. I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess. If it ain't broke, you're not trying hard enough. Duct tape - the handyman's all purpose tool! Oh, and don't wait up. I'll be home after the meeting.
Well, looking at the "F" fuel tap, it is labeled reserve UP, prime sideways and ON is down.
Odd - looking at the labels on the "E" fuel tap, PRIME is UP, reserve sideways and ON is down.
Further, taking the lever off of one, you can put the lever on upside down. The little spring clip has a detent to control which way you turn the level. The slot in the nylon valve is straight, so it can be put together wrong (at least on the one I opened up).
So it seems it was assembled upside down by a PO. I have been running always on PRIME which is why I ran out of gas. Now sideways might very well end up being OFF if assembled wrong - I'm going to run with it that way and see. Anyway, I do plan to remove it and be sire it is all correct. I'd hate to let one of my fellow GS500'ers of West Seattle borrow Trey and run out of gas because the fuel tap is farkled by a PO. Best to fix it now before I forget. (Oh, we're wrenching Sunday to remove the Kat shock and put the stock back on Trey so I'll do it Sunday. Kat shock is too high and stiff for me.)
I blew air through the connections and reserve is really sideways. So it seems what a lot of us have been taught about fuel taps applies to the "F" tap and not an older "E" fuel tap.
Anyone have an old "E" owners manual to see what it really shows? The "F" manual shows prime as sideways. Wondering what a real "E" owners manual illustrates. The stamped labels on the fuel tap do show reserve is sideways and prime should be up on the "E".
Quote from: adidasguy on July 22, 2011, 05:42:26 PM
Well, looking at the "F" fuel tap, it is labeled reserve UP, prime sideways and ON is down.
Odd - looking at the labels on the "E" fuel tap, PRIME is UP, reserve sideways and ON is down.
Further, taking the lever off of one, you can put the lever on upside down. The little spring clip has a detent to control which way you turn the level. The slot in the nylon valve is straight, so it can be put together wrong (at least on the one I opened up).
So it seems it was assembled upside down by a PO. I have been running always on PRIME which is why I ran out of gas. Now sideways might very well end up being OFF if assembled wrong - I'm going to run with it that way and see. Anyway, I do plan to remove it and be sire it is all correct. I'd hate to let one of my fellow GS500'ers of West Seattle borrow Trey and run out of gas because the fuel tap is farkled by a PO. Best to fix it now before I forget. (Oh, we're wrenching Sunday to remove the Kat shock and put the stock back on Trey so I'll do it Sunday. Kat shock is too high and stiff for me.)
I blew air through the connections and reserve is really sideways. So it seems what a lot of us have been taught about fuel taps applies to the "F" tap and not an older "E" fuel tap.
Anyone have an old "E" owners manual to see what it really shows? The "F" manual shows prime as sideways. Wondering what a real "E" owners manual illustrates. The stamped labels on the fuel tap do show reserve is sideways and prime should be up on the "E".
My service manual shows
PRI is up
RES is left
ON as down
My stock petcock won't snap together if it's the other way around.I can't figure out why either.
You could set up a test tank and try it both ways to see which is correct for yours.
Quote from: ben2go on July 22, 2011, 08:39:52 PM
My service manual shows
PRI is up
RES is left
ON as down
My stock petcock won't snap together if it's the other way around.I can't figure out why either.
You could set up a test tank and try it both ways to see which is correct for yours.
Good. That should confirm that the "E" fuel tap has different position than the "F" = where the "F" is:
RES is up
PRI is left
ON as down
I find it a little hard to get the lever on wrong but can be forced. You can put the clip on upside down - which will make the lever turn the opposite way. It also seems that it makes prime DOWN and on UP because the valve is rotated 180 degrees. That explains why I ran out of gas. DOWN was actually prime :sad:
So far, I found that when on wrong, sideways is actually off. :icon_eek:
Guess we all need to remember that fuel tap position is NOT the same between the "E" and "F" fuel taps :dunno_white:
Quote from: ben2go on July 22, 2011, 08:39:52 PM
My service manual shows
PRI is up
RES is left
ON as down
My old 97 owners manual shows the same and that's the way it worked, same as ben2go's 90 model. I believe that's the way the GS-E all worked thru 00. There were three part numbers in the fiches for those years but all looked the same and all were superseeded to the same one as used on later model E's as far as I know.
I don't have an owners manual for my current 02 but it is:
RES is up
PRI is right (rearward)
ON is down
I assume that's same for both 01-02 GS500 models, seems to be a bit different than adidasguy shows for F models with PRI to left, the F are different part numbers. Fuel hose routing pics, all years:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GS500fuelcocks.jpg
Found a GS-F Owner's Manual I had downloaded and it shows the fuel valve to be the same as my 02 with PRI to right (rearward) so it seems there are only 2 variations for all years?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/jcp8832/GSFfuelcock.jpg)
PRI right on "F" - cut & paste and didn't change left to right.
Somewhere stored away is an "E" manual (I have the :F: for Suzi) just everything is away until the bike cave is finished.
Given what I see on the "E"'s, I do have to check all the fuel taps on my "E"'s. Who knows what the PO's did.
I'm also hgetting an emergency tank (quart or so) and will run a real test - put on ON or RES and run til he stops to insure things are working right.
Taking apart some spare petcocks from the parts bin, PRI is a direct flow from reserve input to the output. So if it is screwed up and ON is really PRI, then the tank would go empty when I though it was ON.
Since the bike cave is keeping me busy, I'll just be sure there is always gas in the tank. The day I ran out I knew I need to fill up but expected there to be a reserve AND was just a couple blocks from the gas station.
Until I have a clean cave to tear things apart properly, I'll keep a 0.6 or 1.0 liter emergency tank in Trey's rear carrier. Then I'll let Trey run dry on RESERVE and on ON and maybe even on PRIME just to see what's going on.
One thing I failed to do was check the petcock INSIDE the tank. The tank had one, so I just left it when Trey went purple. It is possible there is a problem with that. I'll first give it a visual check - maybe hold a match over the gas cap to get come light in there to see the inside :flipoff: (No, really, I'll use a flash light.)
Quote from: adidasguy on July 26, 2011, 03:25:41 PM
Taking apart some spare petcocks from the parts bin, PRI is a direct flow from reserve input to the output. So if it is screwed up and ON is really PRI, then the tank would go empty when I though it was ON.
Since the bike cave is keeping me busy, I'll just be sure there is always gas in the tank. The day I ran out I knew I need to fill up but expected there to be a reserve AND was just a couple blocks from the gas station.
Until I have a clean cave to tear things apart properly, I'll keep a 0.6 or 1.0 liter emergency tank in Trey's rear carrier. Then I'll let Trey run dry on RESERVE and on ON and maybe even on PRIME just to see what's going on.
One thing I failed to do was check the petcock INSIDE the tank. The tank had one, so I just left it when Trey went purple. It is possible there is a problem with that. I'll first give it a visual check - maybe hold a match over the gas cap to get come light in there to see the inside :flipoff: (No, really, I'll use a flash light.)
I have had mine apart to clean it.I believe it is possible for the tank petcock to be assembled backwards also.It's face ring snaps on just like the frame petcock.