http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=458698
This was a thread I was a part of and curious to know what some of you think. I started getting pretty pissed at the guys who just think its a given right that you can just run up in somebody elses lane at any speed you want. It IS legal here, however to do it is your own butt if it goes sour on you. What are your thoughts.
I really try not to split here in Houston. Sometimes I do, but my wife has told me times when guys zip past her & it freaks her out so I imagine other people feel the same. Me, I move over to let guys split so I can look at their bike better. haha
It's not legal here in Canada...but my thinking is, if the other drivers aren't used to it...they may take offense and do something stupid/dangerous, and who do you think will get hurt? not the cager, even if he is in the wrong and gets the book thrown at him...you still get hurt, your bike is still toast (I know, insurance...)...not a chance I would take...
Traffic makes people do enough stupid things without having a bike (or bikes) buzz past between all the cars...I just wouldn't trust the cagers... :icon_eek:
Just my two cents...
Later.
Quote from: madjak30 on July 25, 2011, 08:12:21 PM
It's not legal here in Canada...but my thinking is, if the other drivers aren't used to it...they may take offense and do something stupid/dangerous, and who do you think will get hurt? not the cager, even if he is in the wrong and gets the book thrown at him...you still get hurt, your bike is still toast (I know, insurance...)...not a chance I would take...
Traffic makes people do enough stupid things without having a bike (or bikes) buzz past between all the cars...I just wouldn't trust the cagers... :icon_eek:
Just my two cents...
Later.
Whether its legal or not. what jak said makes sense. if they dont see you coming and you startle them. you could be a moto sandwich. IF i were to do it, id have to have 3 to 4 ft minimum to feel safe
Wouldn't even think about trying it in the NOVA/DC traffic here, people change lanes without signalling or looking all the time, and your little bonus lane turns into a dead end really fast.
Quote from: ryott52 on July 25, 2011, 10:17:44 PM
Wouldn't even think about trying it in the NOVA/DC traffic here, people change lanes without signalling or looking all the time, and your little bonus lane turns into a dead end really fast.
thats what makes me reconsider. whenever ive considered. like i had said. ive gotta have 3 to 4 ft of space. and an exit strategy. if driver is startled, really no time to look back and see fi its clear to grab brakes. and really no time to gun it and clear impending squeezage. ive split on my harley in teh past. to avoid getting rear ended. car i went around got it instead. cop says " you know that is illegal, BUT can see why you HAD to do it.
I just dont feel safe splitting. Moving between two cars, faster then them with only a foot or so of clearance on both sides is just not fun in my book. They dont expect you to be there, so generally arent looking out for you.
The only thing I will do on occasion is move up between two lanes of cars when stopped at a light and take off faster then them. But since they are stopped I feel more comfortable doing so.
it's illegal in Michigan to split lanes, but people do it all the time. I just think it's an extra risk thats not worth taking. it's already hard enough to to see bikes on the road, why put yourself somewhere where other drivers dont expect you to be?
there is a difference between splitting and filtering and i think half the forum is confused as to which is which.
Quote from: Twism86 on July 26, 2011, 06:54:31 AM
The only thing I will do on occasion is move up between two lanes of cars when stopped at a light and take off faster then them. But since they are stopped I feel more comfortable doing so.
This is what XLAR8 is calling "filtering" and that is the only thing I would even consider doing...if they are stopped, there is little chance for them to "gitcha"...and I have no problem out accellerating almost any cage... :icon_twisted:
Lane splitting is when the cars are moving (most areas have regulations about the maximum difference in speed, basically how fast you can pass them and at what speed you can do it)...but I think filering is also included in the lane splitting description... ;)
I personally wouldn't even consider lane splitting unless there was a safety issue that needed to be avoided (yama), then I don't car if it is legal or not...look out for number one, no one else will!! :thumb:
Later.
I split in atlanta all the time during rush hour. Most of the cars are stopped anyway.
Not legal in GA.
I even passed cops while doing it, never got a ticket.
Used to ride in the emergency lane too.
I was ok with me splitting as long as I did not have a pillion. And my insurance is not a base line policy.
But I moved from there 10 years ago so I have not done it in a long time. My current commute is about 5 feet to the couch :D
If thats called filtering then I guess i do that on occasion. Like you said though, only when they stopped and there isnt room for them to do something sudden.
Its a 'Grey area' in the uk, meaning its not ILLEGAL, but is frowned upon. - If you do it dangerously and police see, you're in trouble.
I filter to the front of traffic lights etc, if there's enough room.
I lane split only when both lanes are going slow ~ 10 or so under the speed limit- and there is plenty of room.
If its very busy traffic, but still sticking to a good speed, i wont filter.
I don't feel safe lane-splitting either because it's dangerous as hell! It's illegal here in NY and I'm not sure why it's legal anywhere. Usually I'm a fewer-laws-is-better kinda guy, but not in this case. Now that I think more about it, if you live in a place where the lanes are wide and you have a culture that's used to lots of motorcycle traffic and lane-splitting, that could be another thing, but here you'll end-up sideswiping or rear-ending someone if you do it for long!
Quote from: bill14224 on July 26, 2011, 01:22:32 PM
I don't feel safe lane-splitting either because it's dangerous as hell! It's illegal here in NY and I'm not sure why it's legal anywhere. Usually I'm a fewer-laws-is-better kinda guy, but not in this case. Now that I think more about it, if you live in a place where the lanes are wide and you have a culture that's used to lots of motorcycle traffic and lane-splitting, that could be another thing, but here you'll end-up sideswiping or rear-ending someone if you do it for long!
I used to live in NY not too long ago, near the city and then in the sticks...
I wouldn't lane split if the state paid me, the assholes around you would kill you in short time..
Quote from: madjak30 on July 26, 2011, 09:33:41 AM
Quote from: Twism86 on July 26, 2011, 06:54:31 AM
The only thing I will do on occasion is move up between two lanes of cars when stopped at a light and take off faster then them. But since they are stopped I feel more comfortable doing so.
This is what XLAR8 is calling "filtering" and that is the only thing I would even consider doing...if they are stopped, there is little chance for them to "gitcha"...and I have no problem out accellerating almost any cage... :icon_twisted:
Lane splitting is when the cars are moving (most areas have regulations about the maximum difference in speed, basically how fast you can pass them and at what speed you can do it)...but I think filering is also included in the lane splitting description... ;)
I personally wouldn't even consider lane splitting unless there was a safety issue that needed to be avoided (yama), then I don't car if it is legal or not...look out for number one, no one else will!! :thumb:
Later.
aye. my personal CYA policy. or CMA. ( cover your ass/cover my ass ) other than that im in no hurry.
Yeah, filtering.. I like that word.. too bad it's illegal here. I would love to be able to do that.
Yeah, it's illegal just about everywhere but Cali, most states don't make distinctions between lane splitting and filtering. Basically they all say that if you're travelling between designated lanes you're illegal, no matter the speed of traffic.
Filtering is legal here in the UK but 'splitting' as you all put it may not be (would probably be considered 'driving with undue care and attention' or just plain 'dangerous driving'). I filter all the time riding to work in the rush hour. I don't usually deliberately 'split lanes' I just usually find my self in that situation when filtering and then the traffic picks up speed. In those situations I suddenly feel in a very vunerable position and drop back into the lane as quickly as possible. I am always very courteous and thank every car driver that moves to give me better access :angel:.
Bassman
I live in CA, and "lane sharing" is legal here. Not only is it legal, the vast majority of riders in this area do it as a matter of routine. Technically it illegal to ride the line/dots between the lanes, but totally legal to share a lane with another vehicle. In reality though, what I see most riders doing is riding the lines between the lanes. I personally don't lane share, except when I think I'm in danger of being rear-ended and move between two cars to keep prevent it from happening. Riders on our local forum argue that it's safer to lane spit in rush hour traffic because of the risk of being rear-ended in stop and go traffic. They feel they could possibly recover control of the bike from a side-swipe at low speeds, but obviously can't recover from from a direct hit from the rear. This topic has been debated a thousand times on the local forum, and the vast majority of riders are supportive of the practice and very defensive about the topic in general.
Having moved here a few months ago from the Midwest, lane splitting still freaks me out. When I'm in my cage and bikes are zinging around me on both sides, it makes me nervous. Cagers in this area are more accustomed to the practice and I can honestly say that I feel cagers do a much better job of watching for motorcycles here than they did in Chicago. However, there seems to be an accident every week involving lane splitting. Maybe with the tens of thousands of bikes on the road in the Bay area that statistic is quite low, but I for one do not want to become one of those statistics.
It is neither legal nor illegal here in California. Because it is not illegal, it is allowed. It was originally 'allowed' by and for motorcycle police to prevent overheating of their air-cooled Harleys (and Motoguzzis in Los Angeles in the late '60's, early 70's), which required constant movement to keep cool in the dry, hot Californian summers.
When I first started riding I did not split, or filter; nor did I share either. After a few months, I did filter, because I felt safe enough not to rub mirrors with stopped cars. I hadn't really started sharing until about 19 years ago. I do try to minimize my delta (the difference in speed) with other vehicles so as not to scare them. For splitting, I usually go no faster than 35mph, with occational bursts up to 40 to get out of a squeeze, or speed change.
Lane Sharing, down in Oz in my state is Illegal. However, there is a grey area with passing on the Left (we ride on the left so passing on the left is passing on the gutter side of the road, the shoulder). That is, if a vehicle is making a right hand turn (or stopped) you may pass on the left. The Stopped part could be viewed as "stopped to make a turn". As such, if you filter at traffic lights or Split in slow moving traffic a cop will get you, you will be fined and lose points off your license. BUT, passing on the left (where a bicycle lane would be if they had one) will see you fined but no points. BUT, this is only in slower moving traffic. The left is no place to pass/overtake someone at speed, in that case you will also lose points. As I said, grey area.
Me? I have filtered but don't generally do it - if I can sneak passed all the cars on the left then I Sometimes will do it, but usually not.
I have lane split. A couple times in a line of like four other bikes. Once for self preservation as some idiot came screaming up behind me, sticking his head out the window, yelling, cursing, lights flashing, etc. I figured it would be better to not be there and zipped up the middle for about half a click. Another time, the guy behind got the shits that I had merged from a merging lane in front of him, drove his car on the shoulder then cut back in front of me. Time for me to get outta there, and I did.
Otherwise, I won't bother. I figure the risk is too high for the perceived reward (the damage that Could happen is not worth the measly few seconds it saves or couple of minutes it saves on my trip. I have calculated the time savings on my commute and it is not worth it.
Michael
Here in Brazil lanesplitting is legal, but you should (theoretically) guard 3 feet of distance from your bike and cars.
One advantage here is that practically every car/truck driver signals when changing lanes and do it very carefully most of times. Unfortunatelly one month ago one driver didn't see and hit me, total lost to my GS, fortunatelly I was using gloves and a leather suit, didn't brake anything.
A friend of mine recorded himself going to work and back. That guy is crazy, I've never ridden like him, but it a nice video to see (after 6min). It's also not uncommon to find riders riding that way....
Bad side: Average of 1 death in transit per day (in a 21 million people city), with something like 300k motorcycles on the streets.
Here's the movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH8fQskySfw&list=UUKJdq-oJxSuk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH8fQskySfw&list=UUKJdq-oJxSuk)
Quote from: GAS on August 02, 2011, 08:07:38 PM
Here in Brazil lanesplitting is legal, but you should (theoretically) guard 3 feet of distance from your bike and cars.
One advantage here is that practically every car/truck driver signals when changing lanes and do it very carefully most of times. Unfortunatelly one month ago one driver didn't see and hit me, total lost to my GS, fortunatelly I was using gloves and a leather suit, didn't brake anything.
A friend of mine recorded himself going to work and back. That guy is crazy, I've never ridden like him, but it a nice video to see (after 6min). It's also not uncommon to find riders riding that way....
Bad side: Average of 1 death in transit per day (in a 12 million people city), with something like 300k motorcycles on the streets.
Here's the movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH8fQskySfw&list=UUKJdq-oJxSuk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH8fQskySfw&list=UUKJdq-oJxSuk)
lain splitting may be legal, but i would like to know how many traffic laws he did break in that video :icon_eek:
lol!!
1- He's probably speeding all the time,
2- It is not legal to ride on the sidewalks (of course)
3- Here it is not legal to pass by the right side of a driver (when not lane splitting)
4- A couple of red lights passed too (here you can't pass a red light even if you're turning right)
And probably a lot more I didn't see!
That video totally freaked me out!
Bassman
I ride my bike because I enjoy it, not because i feel the need to be an ass and weave through traffic like the people in those videos.
Was the guy in that video honking at people as hes lane splitting?!?!?! Im sorry, but even as a biker, if someone honked at me while doing something dumb/ illegal like that I would give them a not so loving love tap (yum pavement)! :icon_twisted:
twinsm86,
The honking is a cultural thing. While it's not illegal to lanesplitting, riders usually honk to warn drivers to not change lanes at that time. It's not that annoying when you're in a traffic jam surrounded by trucks that do a lot more noise than a motorcycle horn. When I'm driving I definetly prefer to be warned by a honking guy than hit a silent one....
The traffic here is just terrible, is your choice to drive a car and take 2 hours (seriously) to get to work and more 2 to get back home or spend 30 minutes in a bike, splitting lanes. Motorcycles are then a useful tool to get more free time, most people use them for its practicity more than for its joyness.
twinsm86 and bassman,
I'd like to say that riding this way is not usual. I don't do that (but I split lanes, of course). I have to myself that what is safe is to go just a few mph faster than the cars, so you are seeing what is to come and if somebody change lanes without signaling I have time to slow down. It's pretty common here that novice riders involve themselves in accidents by NOT doing lanesplitting. The cars are not used to have bikes in the middle of the lane and in a red light stop is very likely to be hit in the rear by some old fella who is not wearing it's glasses or shouldn't even be driving anyway.... Differently from US, here cars stop 2feet away (at most) from the next one in a light stop. If an old person is not aware he or she will measure by the lights of the car in front of you, that are usually much brighter than yours (in a motorcycle).
I guess its a different world down there, so I guess its not too bad, just not what I would be used too. Something inside me just snaps when people honk at me and I get angry.... haha. Like "oh no they did not, get back here so I can kick your ass!" :icon_mrgreen:
Believe me. You don't want to know how different is the world down here! lol
I'm used to it (you awalys get used to it, right?) but it's definitely too bad! the honking people are the smallest of my problems.. lol
Quote from: Twism86 on August 03, 2011, 01:08:01 PM
I guess its a different world down there, so I guess its not too bad, just not what I would be used too. Something inside me just snaps when people honk at me and I get angry.... haha. Like "oh no they did not, get back here so I can kick your ass!" :icon_mrgreen:
Does that include if YOU have been a dumbass on the road and they give you a beep? Or do you do like everyone else and yell get flucked and flip the bird as well, inciting anger even further?
If cars do something dumb to me on the bike, after a beep and escape I also give them the finger. This finger :nono:
Michael
I don't lane split. People in Kissimmee and O-town don't know what blinkers are for. So, you never know what in the world they are going to do. People will fly through four lanes of traffic to make that turn because the GPS told them to. On occasion I will filter up to the front of a light if I am turning right. No one has really given me birds or tried to run me off the road yet. But, if the light is getting ready to change I will hang out where I'm at.
Mary
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on August 08, 2011, 09:06:05 PM
I don't lane split. People in Kissimmee and O-town don't know what blinkers are for. So, you never know what in the world they are going to do. People will fly through four lanes of traffic to make that turn because the GPS told them to. On occasion I will filter up to the front of a light if I am turning right. No one has really given me birds or tried to run me off the road yet. But, if the light is getting ready to change I will hang out where I'm at.
Mary
agreed. be safe hun. dont wanna read abotu some random jackass running you over. youve seen people signal right, and go left im sure. across multiple lanes as well. ive already bounced my goped across the side of a fedex truck. lol. even where its common or people USE directionals, id still be wary IF i had to do it. also i wouldnt do it unless i had an escape path of some sort
Quote from: GAS on August 03, 2011, 07:14:01 AM
lol!!
1- He's probably speeding all the time,
2- It is not legal to ride on the sidewalks (of course)
3- Here it is not legal to pass by the right side of a driver (when not lane splitting)
4- A couple of red lights passed too (here you can't pass a red light even if you're turning right)
And probably a lot more I didn't see!
there was one he ran BUT it was a split stop. here in teh us split stops. well teh line one MUST stop at is past the lanewhere traffic approaches from left. usually that is where one HAS to stop. other one is optional. i hope he doesnt ride liek this ALl the time. hes crazy lol. but it was a fun ride especially at night.
he was averaging at night 112 km/h splitting lanes passing within inches of vehicles etc. but hey. best of luck to him. still an awesome looking ride. but was he in that big of a hurry? was his wife calling him saying " honey im horny, youve got 10 mins to get home or else i wont be any longer? ; lol
I ride in the San Francisco area, and I laneshare and filter all the time. Low speed, always on the alert particularly if there's merge-space, and it's been all good since '90.
I've had less than a half-dozen drivers take obvious exception over the years, but far more folks either move over or pull in their mirrors than the ones that actively try to impede me. The Bay Area is pretty good riding territory.
Slow and steady wins the race!
I've only lane split once and that was to get over a bridge where there was no shoulder and the traffic was moving at 5km/h and even then I watched a 4x4 try to hit the motorbike in front of me that I was following. As a rule I think lane splitting is to dangerous. Moving cars, to hard to react.
I do tend to filter in heavy traffic though. I won't filter unless I'm going to be sitting in that traffic for a long time. As Mister said, Aussie cops have a whole host of ways to book you for it and really depends. Some you see their faces and they are like I wish I could do that, some give you the warning finger wiggle, others just ignore you, some write down you number plate for the bill in the mail, etc. I try not to filter past cops, just to be on the safe side.
In a group of bikes, I feel far safer splitting lanes than riding straight behind the others as long as we're going at max. 45.
And I do filtering on stop signs and traffic lights 'though both (splitting and filtering) is prohibited in Germany.
Of course I do, what's the point of riding a bike if you're not to take advantage of riding. If you're going to just sit in traffic, you might as well just drive a car.
I am in California (Los Angeles area) and when I rode I always split lanes. Traffic is massive here. I remember when I used to do sunday rides I would hit gridlock on a sunday around 2pm!
Splitting was nerve racking though. You have to be on high alert the entire time watching the ebb and flow of people, watching and anticipating moves across your lane. I always arrived home with my shoulders tight. It was less stressful when I split between the carpool lane and other lanes as there is more space there and against the law for cars to cross over from one to the other (although you still have to be vigilant about them doing that).
Only once did I have someone swerve over to change lanes *just* as I was about to pass next to them. We both ended up moving over to the next lane together as I ended up next to them, lol.
I have to admit I split lanes pretty fast too...
Eventually I stopped riding on the street and stuck to the track though.
It can be very dangerous but done with care can be very safe too.
Quote from: mister on August 02, 2011, 11:50:14 AM
Lane Sharing, down in Oz in my state is Illegal.
Except two motorcycle may share the same lane.