I know the cause of the 4 way flash is caused by power bridging across the indicator light (on the dash) because its doesn't have any diodes to stop the flow of power through it to the other side. Would a LED dash bulb fix this problem?
Nope. You need either 2 separate indicator bulbs or a diode. The signal will still cross an led bulb.
damn, i was hoping since the LED was a diode itself it would fix it, hmmm might be time for a little mod work, i wonder if i can make my gauges flash left and right so i know my turn signal is on....
In our Dodge Ram trucks, the way the PCM sees the bulbs is through the filament in the bulbs. When we go to HID and no filament, we get crazy results that are commonly flashing. We have to use 50ohm load resistors across the bulb circuit to mimic a filament and then they will work as they should. Are smaller load resistors for you guys with no an option for some reason?
With LED turn signals, not much voltage or current is required. That's why they all go on.
Using an LED indicator will allow current to flow one way so turning one way will make all 4 go on, the other way just that side but the indicator won't go on.
A non-polarized LED will probably not solve the problem - though it might if it doesn't let much current go through it. An incandescent bulb you have in there now lets lots of current go across it - more than the turn signals require.
One solution is to have 2 turn indicators : one for left and one for right connected in parallel to the turn signals thus breaking the connection between left and right by eliminating that bulb. You can use LED's.
Another is to use 2 diodes. Connect a diode to left, other to right (the 2 wires that go to the indicator right now) then connect them to the plus side of the replacement LED indicator. The minus side of the indicator goes to ground (which can be found on any of the other 3 indicators). You can use an incandescent lamp, too, if using 2 diodes.
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb442/adidasguy/Assorted/diodes.png)
NOTE: While you could use a full wave bridge rectifier, it would allow current to go both ways and might not solve your problem.
I think I got the diodes drawn right. Been a while since I drew a schematic.
Would be awesome to source one of those diodes that the bike currently uses (has 2 inputs and 1 output for the neutral switch). Can't find one anywhere...
I went the diode route it cost me $0.50, a few bits of heatshrink, about 20cm of wire, and about half an hour of time. I did mine inside my headlight, I got all the info I needed off the site and she works a treat.
Quote from: crzydood17 on August 03, 2011, 12:22:44 PM
damn, i was hoping since the LED was a diode itself it would fix it, hmmm might be time for a little mod work, i wonder if i can make my gauges flash left and right so i know my turn signal is on....
If you used an led for the panel light, it would only let current flow in one direction, so with (say) left blinker on, you would get all four flashing and the panel light, with right you would get only the right flashers and no panel light.
Quote from: adidasguy on August 03, 2011, 12:50:32 PM
With LED turn signals, not much voltage or current is required. That's why they all go on.
Using an LED indicator will allow current to flow one way so turning one way will make all 4 go on, the other way just that side but the indicator won't go on.
A non-polarized LED will probably not solve the problem - though it might if it doesn't let much current go through it. An incandescent bulb you have in there now lets lots of current go across it - more than the turn signals require.
One solution is to have 2 turn indicators : one for left and one for right connected in parallel to the turn signals thus breaking the connection between left and right by eliminating that bulb. You can use LED's.
Another is to use 2 diodes. Connect a diode to left, other to right (the 2 wires that go to the indicator right now) then connect them to the plus side of the replacement LED indicator. The minus side of the indicator goes to ground (which can be found on any of the other 3 indicators). You can use an incandescent lamp, too, if using 2 diodes.
(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb442/adidasguy/Assorted/diodes.png)
NOTE: While you could use a full wave bridge rectifier, it would allow current to go both ways and might not solve your problem.
I think I got the diodes drawn right. Been a while since I drew a schematic.
A full wave rectifier would not work because it would still ground thru the opposite side.
wiring 2 separate diodes is the cheapest way.. but the cleanest would be to pick up something like http://www.motosport.com/motorcycle/oem-parts/SUZUKI/2002/GS500/WIRING-HARNESS/DIODE/36611-38A00
Quote from: numus on August 03, 2011, 03:02:39 PM
A full wave rectifier would not work because it would still ground thru the opposite side.
I believe I said that.
However - there is a slight chance due in part to:
1. LED indicator would not let much current through, so maybe not enough for the turn signals to come on
2. A diode has a 0.7 volt drop. Voltage through the full wave bridge would be 1.4 volts
Combine those two factors together, and the voltage and current passing through could be low enough that it MIGHT work. (Would not work with an incandescent lamp as it will allow too much current to pass)
If you used the $12 Suzuki part, you still have the same number of cuts and connections to make if you were using 2 ten cent diodes. Diodes probably take less space since they are like the size of the wire, not a small cube. Up to whom ever is doing it as to which part they want to use. I'd put them in-line on the wiring harness to the indicators. Pull all 4 lamps out. Modify the harness then put back in with LEDs. (PS: no headlight bucket on an "F". Headlight bucket on an "E" is so crammed full of stuff I hate to ever have to get into there.)
PS: Since a full wave bridge can be had for a quarter, if you want a "Suzuki Like"part, buy a full wave bridge and just use the 2 pins for AC input and the "+" output. Cut off the minus/negative output. Simple as that!
PSPS: You can get dual diodes in a package if you look for them. Here's a data sheet on one that costs about 20 cents:
http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/656350DIODESINC.pdf
So just to be clear, the issue isnt when you add LED turn signals just to the back but when you add them to back AND front right?
Quote from: adidasguy on August 03, 2011, 03:25:20 PM
Quote from: numus on August 03, 2011, 03:02:39 PM
A full wave rectifier would not work because it would still ground thru the opposite side.
I believe I said that.
However - there is a slight chance due in part to:
1. LED indicator would not let much current through, so maybe not enough for the turn signals to come on
2. A diode has a 0.7 volt drop. Voltage through the full wave bridge would be 1.4 volts
Combine those two factors together, and the voltage and current passing through could be low enough that it MIGHT work. (Would not work with an incandescent lamp as it will allow too much current to pass)
If you used the $12 Suzuki part, you still have the same number of cuts and connections to make if you were using 2 ten cent diodes. Diodes probably take less space since they are like the size of the wire, not a small cube. Up to whom ever is doing it as to which part they want to use. I'd put them in-line on the wiring harness to the indicators. Pull all 4 lamps out. Modify the harness then put back in with LEDs. (PS: no headlight bucket on an "F". Headlight bucket on an "E" is so crammed full of stuff I hate to ever have to get into there.)
True... i hate every time i have to take the headlamp off and disconnect the harness... I am about to put a full wave rectifer on there to cure the polarized LED problem tho...
I see what you are saying about the voltage drop... i measured 9 volts across the grounded LED when i tried to replace my turn signals, so your assessment seems dead on at 7.6 volts probably wont trigger it.. I just went with short stalk incandescent because i wasn't planning on modifying the gauge cluster.. then when i got the new one i just dove right into modifications lol.
Half wave rectification (i.e. 2 diodes or half of a full wave) is better as it isolates your left and right turn signals, preventing both sides from coming on if you go all LED and enough current was getting through.
As for replacing just the front or rear with LED, that has too many variables to know for certain so I'd modify the indicator anyway. You would need an electronic flasher due to the different load or your turn signals might flash so fast they can cause an epileptic seizure.
If you're taking time to do something, take a little extra and go all the way.
Reason i ask is I recently swapped out those huge orange OEMs for smaller clear lens LED turns on the rear and they work fine. But here soon I will be adding new mirrors on the front with LEDs in the for turn indicators and wanna get prepared in case I have issues
i think i will just keep my damn turn signal light out for a while lol
I did all four led turn signals. What I got was all four came on and not flashing. Went to radio shack and got some 10ohm 10w resistors and spliced them in parallel (like I was adding another light bulb) in the front left and right turn wires. Flashes a tiny bit faster than stock but they work pretty good. I guess you could just get premade ones off ebay for around $10 or less. The radio shack resistors are about $3.
Ramen- don't know if you know it, but keep an eye on those resistors. They can get hot enough to melt wires and maybe discolor paint.
Quote from: Big Rich on August 07, 2011, 08:39:48 AM
Ramen- don't know if you know it, but keep an eye on those resistors. They can get hot enough to melt wires and maybe discolor paint.
Yup.. they turn into tiny little heat coils...
yeah they do but again, we use 50 watt load resistors on our dodge ram trucks to do that same thing (manipulate the electrical circuits) and it works fine. ive had four 50 watt load resistors on my truck for my HIDs for years.
http://tinyurl.com/3gqhyrr
Quote from: Big Rich on August 07, 2011, 08:39:48 AM
Ramen- don't know if you know it, but keep an eye on those resistors. They can get hot enough to melt wires and maybe discolor paint.
yeah I keep an eye on it. It gets hot if its ran for a while so I try to limit the time it's on. Hasn't got hot enough to melt anything, including the electrical tape I wrapped around it. I may just buy the 50w ones off ebay that are already premade.
Or just get a flasher relay designed for the low current draw of LED'S:
http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2Disp=%2Fflashers.htm
They sell them at AutZone too.........
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LED-bulb-turn-signal-hazard-flasher-relay-load-resistor-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem56413cf01fQQitemZ370461700127QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Thats the one I went with... fits right were the old relay went...
Only problem with the seller.. sent me a ton of religious pamphlets and forgot to include the grounding cable (granted it is just a wire with a crimp on it... but was more pissed of about the inclusion of the religious pamphlets).
@ Numus - THX for that link. I will try that first being I will be adding some up front soon.
Quote from: weedahoe on August 08, 2011, 06:16:44 AM
@ Numus - THX for that link. I will try that first being I will be adding some up front soon.
Personal experience, you are still going to need to rewrite the console indicator and add 2 diodes off the left and right side and then ground the indicator.
These replacement relays only fix the hyper blinking/always on ... the same that the load resistors are suppose to do. Because of the nature of LED's illuminating at much lower voltage requirements, since you will have a bleed thru voltage across the gauge console indicator (it relys on grounding thru the opposite blinker assemblys) it will may (and probably will) light up the opposite side also and have a 4 way flash problem.. Adidas gave the only real answer to this problem.
Quote from: Big Rich on August 08, 2011, 05:19:24 AM
Or just get a flasher relay designed for the low current draw of LED'S:
http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2Disp=%2Fflashers.htm
They sell them at AutZone too.........
I think I'll do the flasher too and remove the resistors. Do you happen to know the part# at autozone?
I do not. But if you look through all the signal relays, look for ones that specify "low load/no load".
I found LEDs to be more of a pain then they are worth. I finally ended up going GSXR integrated, with small stalk bulbs in the back and to cover up the holes in the fairing some traditional marker lights flush mount. Was nice to have them all just plug and play. When I went LEDs all around it took a couple of months to get the load balancer the resistor and was constantly blowing lights in the turn signal indicator. A pain I tell you cost more than getting my set up now. Plus not being a PITA.
Mary
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on August 08, 2011, 08:44:41 PM
I found LEDs to be more of a pain then they are worth. I finally ended up going GSXR integrated, with small stalk bulbs in the back and to cover up the holes in the fairing some traditional marker lights flush mount. Was nice to have them all just plug and play. When I went LEDs all around it took a couple of months to get the load balancer the resistor and was constantly blowing lights in the turn signal indicator. A pain I tell you cost more than getting my set up now. Plus not being a PITA.
Mary
Agreed... Went with these http://www.lockhartphillipsusa.com/store/product.php?productid=17583&cat=392&page=1 and never had a problem... Did switch out the thermal relay with the electronic since i had already bought it and figured.. why not?
LEDs really work well - but you should do everything correctly all at one time. Trying to do part and then hack in rthings to make them work will be a PITA.
When going LED, change the flasher to electronic at the same time. Then go with 2 diodes on the turn indicator AND go LED there, too. Because Suzuki runs the indicator between the left and right side, you need to fix the indicator or you get all turn signals on at the same time (look at the wiring diagram and you'll see how THEY hacked in the turn indicator).
Adding load resistors are really a cheap hack to keep you from replacing the flasher relay to an electronic one.
There are 3 reasons you might want to go LED turn signals:
1. Cut power consumption (which the turn signals use very little since they're not on much). Load resistors use power so LEDs and load resistors doesn't cut power consumption.
2. Aesthetics: you want a certain turn signal available only as LED
3. Longer bulb life.
I have a 2002 GS500 Naked, and I used a fulleasye Rectifier on my signal light indicator (right below the gauges) and change the bulb to an LED and everything worked great. But then again, I haven't change any of my signal lights so I haven't run into any problems yet. I'll probably might once I started converting to LED turn signals. But gotta love it. Now i could see my turn signal indicator much better on the day time when I tend to forget to turn the signal off. Hey, that's an accident waiting to happen, especially when the DRIVERS in front of you thought you are making a turn. So pls be careful out there