I made a video which makes things a lot easier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKudAKhkXvo
Any ideas?
I'm not mechanically inclined either. If this were happening to me I would check the following, but again I'm definitly not an expert, just a process of elimination.
Since there's only 7K miles on it there shouldn't be THAT much wear and tear but who knows what the previous owner did to it.
Check your choke cable to make sure it's not stretched and it's being 'choked' all the way
Check your sparkplugs and make sure the cables are firmly attached
Check your air filter
Run Stabilizer through the engine - Sta-bil claims it cleans the carbs.
I also am not sure if checking the float bowl would help. Mine has 14K miles and I've only balanced the carbs. Never did a float check.
Make sure you start the bike on PRI.With the heat around lately, the carbs can dry out.Starting the bike on PRI(prime) by passes the vacuum operation of the petcock ,and allows fuel to flow to the carbs.If the engine isn't running there is no vacuum to open the diaphragm inside the petcock.
Quote from: kbankovi on August 04, 2011, 09:42:30 AM
Check your choke cable to make sure it's not stretched and it's being 'choked' all the way
Check your sparkplugs and make sure the cables are firmly attached
Check your air filter
Run Stabilizer through the engine - Sta-bil claims it cleans the carbs.
I'll be sure to check the sparkplugs and air-filter. I have a service manual so it
should be easy for me. :cool:
Quote from: ben2go on August 04, 2011, 09:46:47 AM
Make sure you start the bike on PRI.With the heat around lately, the carbs can dry out.Starting the bike on PRI(prime) by passes the vacuum operation of the petcock ,and allows fuel to flow to the carbs.If the engine isn't running there is no vacuum to open the diaphragm inside the petcock.
Oh, I thought you had to put it on prime for a few seconds, then put it to on, THEN start. But I'll see if starting with it on prime makes a difference.
Is the starter cranking as fast as it did before you started having this problem? If it's cranking at a lower frequency it could be an electrical problem.
Quote from: paalak on August 04, 2011, 10:25:19 AM
Is the starter cranking as fast as it did before you started having this problem? If it's cranking at a lower frequency it could be an electrical problem.
Not really.
I mean maaaybe a little, but not noticably slow at all.
Also I'll upload a video of it tomorrow.
uploaded (bump)
I've had a similar issue like that it turned out to be a weak battery and replaced it with those tru-gel/scorpion gel batteries. :thumb:
Tight valves,weak spark,or the petcock isn't flowing fuel.Is the gas fresh and clear?I recently got a tank of fuel and two weeks later it had turned brown and wouldn't run.
I also went with a trugel battery and it fires right up everytime. The old battery was like yours, took a lot of cranking to start up. I think give the trugel battery a try. It's a nice upgrade anyways.
Since we are getting battery responses.I found the Scorpion Battery from battery stuff to be tops.It's an AGM battery.
$54 and free priority shipping.
http://www.batterystuff.com/powersports-batteries/sYT10L-A2.html
At 7k miles it is close for a valve check. Too tight valves = hard cold starting.
Michael
@ramen and ben and anaconda, the previous owner said he put a new battery in although I haven't really looked at it myself but i'll check,
@ben, the gas is 7-11 premium (93) gas. it's worked for me for the 800 miles i've had it so far atleast
@mister, that is definately a possibility, i'll look at that
Also sometimes the choke has a sweet spot when it wants to start. Have you tried it with half choke or 3/4?
Quote from: Twisted on August 08, 2011, 08:01:46 PM
Also sometimes the choke has a sweet spot when it wants to start. Have you tried it with half choke or 3/4?
Does this mean the choke cable (or another choke component?) is adjusted improperly? I definitely have a 'sweet spot' on my choke and really wish I knew how to fix it.
Would a valve adjustment be simple to do? I'm not very mechanically inclined so I don't wanna mess something up.
But I also don't wanna fork over $400 for a shop to do it. Is it complicated?
Here's the valve adjustment video. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2015554469142545363
I tried that battery and I just installed it.
Seems like it cranks a bit faster, but it's still taking 10+ cranks to start.
Is that even normal?
):
Quote from: rayshon on August 09, 2011, 09:29:12 AM
Would a valve adjustment be simple to do? I'm not very mechanically inclined so I don't wanna mess something up.
But I also don't wanna fork over $400 for a shop to do it. Is it complicated?
follow the video that was posted. If your unsure you can at least check the clearance without adjusting. Then if it is tight, you'd know which direction to go. I don't think you could do to much damage by just checking the clearance. Also, why run premium gas? Regular unleaded works cheaper. Too bad the battery didn't help much
Quote from: ramennoodles on August 18, 2011, 05:44:35 PM
Quote from: rayshon on August 09, 2011, 09:29:12 AM
Would a valve adjustment be simple to do? I'm not very mechanically inclined so I don't wanna mess something up.
But I also don't wanna fork over $400 for a shop to do it. Is it complicated?
follow the video that was posted. If your unsure you can at least check the clearance without adjusting. Then if it is tight, you'd know which direction to go. I don't think you could do to much damage by just checking the clearance. Also, why run premium gas? Regular unleaded works cheaper. Too bad the battery didn't help much
Here,the premium fuel doesn't have ethanol/alcohol in it.Low and mid grade can have up to 15%.My bike has running issues on it,so I stick to premium.I could rejet and run the cheaper fuels but it would probably cut down on my mpg.Currently I am in the high 40 mpg and I don't wanna go any lower.I wish the gooberment would let oil refineries produce straight 89 octane without ethanol/alcohol.
sounds like it needs more fuel at startup. run some seafoam through it, 1 once per gallon, this will clean the fuel system and carbs. i would also use the regular with ethanol, as that gas will remove any water and also clean the fuel system. as for loosing mpg, im getting 78-80 mpg cdn. with it, so it cant be that bad.
yeah i've watched the video and i'm gonna try the clearance check and adjustment soon...
and seafoam? I've never heard of that. how do i run it through like you said?
Here is what I'm hearing from the guys at the Motor Cycle Clinic. This ethanol is killing our carbs! They say they get 3-4 carbs a week more than normal because of the gas. The sad thing in Florida they even dumped it into the premium so it seems there are no choices for us down here. Also, quite a few gas stations have been busted for dumping more ethanol than what is allowed by law so you don't even know what you are getting anymore. MCC also said that for Flick no real use in using the high test with ethanol because he is not a "high performance" bike. Also, you have a lot higher chance of getting old gas because prices are so high very few people buy it causing the gas to sit longer and the gas to not be properly mixed anymore. :dunno_black:
Mary
i tried starting it with the gas cap open, same thing happens
seafoam is a fuel conditioner/carb-intake cleaner that cleans carbon and fuel deposits. its from the u.s. and just came to canada a few years ago. check a uap/napa store. the carbs will handle ethanol up to 10%, but if its higher it may cause problems. i believe the choke is actually an enrichener circut, not a butterfly valve that closes off the intake, and if it is plugged or partially plugged it will not provide the extra fuel needed for cold start-up.
Quote from: grader on August 19, 2011, 02:45:08 PM
seafoam is a fuel conditioner/carb-intake cleaner that cleans carbon and fuel deposits. its from the u.s. and just came to canada a few years ago. check a uap/napa store. the carbs will handle ethanol up to 10%, but if its higher it may cause problems. i believe the choke is actually an enrichener circut, not a butterfly valve that closes off the intake, and if it is plugged or partially plugged it will not provide the extra fuel needed for cold start-up.
Oooh. It's a spray right? Do I just warm up my engine, turn it off, spray it in the engine somewhere, and turn it on and rev it a few times? (that's what I've seen in youtube videos)
And for the choke, when the engine is on and choke is fully on, it sits at like 3.5-4k RPMs, so I don't think the choke cable is loose or anything...could it be? I would check but there's flippin cables everywhere :icon_confused:
Also, when I remove the gas tank do I have to drain the gas first? Or can I just loosen it, set petcock to OFF, and take it out?
seafoam comes in a spray but you want the engine treatment that gets added to the gas.
Quote from: rayshon on August 19, 2011, 02:53:32 PM
Quote from: grader on August 19, 2011, 02:45:08 PM
seafoam is a fuel conditioner/carb-intake cleaner that cleans carbon and fuel deposits. its from the u.s. and just came to canada a few years ago. check a uap/napa store. the carbs will handle ethanol up to 10%, but if its higher it may cause problems. i believe the choke is actually an enrichener circut, not a butterfly valve that closes off the intake, and if it is plugged or partially plugged it will not provide the extra fuel needed for cold start-up.
Oooh. It's a spray right? Do I just warm up my engine, turn it off, spray it in the engine somewhere, and turn it on and rev it a few times? (that's what I've seen in youtube videos)
And for the choke, when the engine is on and choke is fully on, it sits at like 3.5-4k RPMs, so I don't think the choke cable is loose or anything...could it be? I would check but there's flippin cables everywhere :icon_confused:
Also, when I remove the gas tank do I have to drain the gas first? Or can I just loosen it, set petcock to OFF, and take it out?
set the petcock that's bolted into the tank to off before you disconnect your fuel lines. It would be easier to lift off if the tank is not full of fuel. It can be heavy
alright, this is really getting annoying. i'm starting to see a little white smoke for a few seconds after it (Eventually) starts up.
it's definately a fuel problem, so next week i'm gonna take the fuel tank off, what should i look at?
is there a fuel filter or something that could be the problem? i know to look at the choke and fuel lines, but what exactly should i look for? what about carbs, could that be the problem?
also i'm sorry i keep bumping this, this problem won't go away ):
rayshon, have you checked the valves yet?
I agree with start simple. But it's due for a check anyway, so at some point you're going to have to do it. Why not now, just to rule it out at the least?
Michael
Quote from: mister on August 20, 2011, 09:35:19 PM
rayshon, have you checked the valves yet?
I agree with start simple. But it's due for a check anyway, so at some point you're going to have to do it. Why not now, just to rule it out at the least?
Michael
I wanna try the simple stuff, then checking valves and carbs as a "last resort" lol
checking to see if it needs adjustment, and actually adjusting them are 2 different things right?
thanks for the reply
white smoke is just moisture burning off. My gs does it every morning monday through friday warming up before I head out to work. Black smoke is fuel burning and blue smoke is oil burning. If it eventually starts then runs fine it's getting the fuel to keep it running right? Now that you have plenty of cranking amps and you say choke does change idle after it starts, next check I would do is check valves. the only fuel filter is inside the tank, it's connected to the tank mounted petcock. I guess you could clean it while you got the tank off but would have to drain all your fuel out.
Quote from: rayshon on August 20, 2011, 09:49:34 PM
Quote from: mister on August 20, 2011, 09:35:19 PM
rayshon, have you checked the valves yet?
I agree with start simple. But it's due for a check anyway, so at some point you're going to have to do it. Why not now, just to rule it out at the least?
Michael
I wanna try the simple stuff, then checking valves and carbs as a "last resort" lol
checking to see if it needs adjustment, and actually adjusting them are 2 different things right?
thanks for the reply
checking the valve clearance is pretty simple. Adjusting is a little more complicated. For checking valve clearance you would need a set of feeler gauges, 12mm n 10mm wrenches, slotted screw driver, a couple allen wrenches, pliers and probably some sealant to put the valve cover back on. Thats it. it's pretty easy
Quote from: ramennoodles on August 20, 2011, 10:01:07 PM
white smoke is just moisture burning off. My gs does it every morning monday through friday warming up before I head out to work. Black smoke is fuel burning and blue smoke is oil burning. If it eventually starts then runs fine it's getting the fuel to keep it running right? Now that you have plenty of cranking amps and you say choke does change idle after it starts, next check I would do is check valves. the only fuel filter is inside the tank, it's connected to the tank mounted petcock. I guess you could clean it while you got the tank off but would have to drain all your fuel out.
yeah, it runs 100% fine after it starts. it just doesn't get enough fuel or something during the cranking
the dealership estimated like $500 to adjust valves..i'd rather pay $50 for all the tools and try it myself lol
yeah, I wouldn't touch anything else then until you check those valve clearances first
$500 to check the valves is a load of BS for a qualified mechanic.
When you check them, do it with a completely cold engine. This way all the various metals have gone back to their correct size after cooling down from engine running. Otherwise you could get wrong readings.
Michael
You can check the compression really easily in 5 minutes if you buy (or borrow) a compression tester, they're cheap. If the compression is good, your valve clearances are not your starting problem. That will either put your mind at rest or confirm you need a valve check. For what MHO is worth, your symptoms sound most like tight valves.
Just check them, or do the compression check, THEN get back to us. Sometimes there is no magic cheap and easy solution!
+1 to mister's comments on your mechanic--try another one.
I finally listened to your bike start-up video and it sounds more like a low voltage problem than a tight valve problem but do give the valves a quick cold compression check as suggested. No need for a guage, the finger in the hole test is all that's needed, copied from my recent post:
Remove plugs. I tie the clutch lever to the grip with my hanky to close the switch and then hold open the throttle with one hand while cranking the engine with that thumb after placing a finger/thumb of the other hand tightly over a plug hole. Compression will blow your finger away from the plug hole with a loud pop as you crank engine if you have compression. Wear a glove if doing a hot check.
If you have compression hot after no compression cold you most likely have a tight valve. Valve clearance increases as the engine warms restoring compression and that only takes a minute or so of warming.
If you have good cold compression then the valves are good enough for quick start-ups and good running but don't ignore giving them a proper check soon, running a GS over a long time with exhaust valves set to the tight side of normal tolerances will shorten valve life.
Then check for low starting voltage, I have no idea what your ambient temps are but that video sounds like good start-up for a GS in good condition on a cold winter day here in NE OH, but not for summer time. If you try a cold jump start from a car battery (car not running) it will start as quick as you can snap your fingers with full voltage if everything else is in order. Maybe your battery is below par.
Finally I see no mention of your current ambient temps and what you are doing with your choke. Full choke in the winter works for me but bike starts quicker with only about 1/2-3/4 choke in the summer, no choke for restarts on a warm day. Maybe I missed this early on in your posts in this thread.
I usually always start with the choke 100% and get the same problem, I just didn't put it all the way on for some reason when I took the video lol
But yeah I'll try those methods of compression testing, they seem a lot easier than taking apart the engine
i'll update you guys with whatever's up with the valves
think i found the problem
(http://i52.tinypic.com/jqqr9k.jpg)
see the part of the t-seal circled in red? that is busted wide open
i have to take apart the carb to replace that don't i?
i can't even find which part it is on motosport.com...this bike is really getting on my nerves. >:(
how the hell do i delete a post..?
Quote from: rayshon on August 29, 2011, 03:49:47 PM
think i found the problem
(http://i52.tinypic.com/jqqr9k.jpg)
see the part of the t-seal circled in red? that is busted wide open
i have to take apart the carb to replace that don't i?
i can't even find which part it is on motosport.com...this bike is really getting on my nerves. >:(
it's either the carbs need to be cleaned (i can't do it myself because apparently i have to tune and set it or something if i take them out) or the valves need to be adjusted
either way it's gonna cost me money out the ass
now i'm quoting myself?!
not only is this bike giving me problems but now the forum is LOL can a mod delete these extra posts
Quote from: rayshon on August 29, 2011, 09:44:55 PM
now i'm quoting myself?!
not only is this bike giving me problems but now the forum is LOL can a mod delete these extra posts
Instead of starting new posts asking how to delete previous posts, then more quoting and more new posts, why not just edit the first post to show what you want. As for the others, just remove all text and write "Nothing to see here", or re-edit them and write something pithy in it :thumb:
Michael
Quote from: ben2go on August 08, 2011, 03:30:03 PM
Since we are getting battery responses.I found the Scorpion Battery from battery stuff to be tops.It's an AGM battery.
$54 and free priority shipping.
http://www.batterystuff.com/powersports-batteries/sYT10L-A2.html
I have this battery and prefer it over OEM. If I'm gonna leave the bike sit more than 12 hrs, I try to hook the bike up to a battery tender. That in itself keeps me from having to worry about is the battery got enough juice to start this bike.
I would probably start by investigating your fuel lines. This sounds like it's trying to turn over, but it's not getting enough fuel.
If your fuel lines are fine, check your spark plugs. Are they corroded? Could be that the engine isn't getting enough of a spark to turn over.
Next I would probably take a multimeter and check my battery and then (if you have a haynes manual) run through the checklist on the electrical system.
Next I would look at the carbs. If everything looks good, move on to checking the valves. As it was mentioned tight valves could cause this problem.
If none of this works, it's probably something in your engine. Run a compression test and other engine trouble checking procedures and try to deduce it from there. It would really help if you were more specific.
So I had the guy come out and check my valves to see why it took forever to start, and one of the intake valves was somewhat tight so we switched that out and now it starts right up.
Well when we put it back together (after sitting for 2 weeks) it idled ROUGH, stalled at random times, and shot up from choke at random times, also backfired a lot, but after a few minutes of letting it run it idled a lot smoother (which was weird since we hardly touched the carbs at all)
my air filter is dirty so i'm gonna get a new one
so i put a new air filter in and changed oil and the problem is still there.
we set all the valves to .06...any other ideas what could be wrong? do you think it's the carbs