So resoldered all my connections (including the new one from the rectifer and engine start switch to the positive terminal.. Road it down the road and once i hit a hill the bike lost acceleration and no matter how much i tried to the throttle the engine just died.. Wouldn't turn over again...
Any idea if this might be electrical or carb related?
You were going up hill ? OK what battery you got in it ? es 12BS sideways - if so look for positive battery post hitting the frame.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on August 16, 2011, 12:23:47 PM
You were going up hill ? OK what battery you got in it ? es 12BS sideways - if so look for positive battery post hitting the frame.
Cool.
Buddha.
CB10L-a2 battery... Nothing appears to be hitting the frame.. The bike is at a gas station right now.. waiting for a buddy to get off work so we can pick it up in his truck and haul it to his house...
Going to dismantle the carbs and check them.. would a stuck float possibly cause this?
I`d have the spark plugs out and check for a spark firstly,as youv`e been at the wiring.
maybe the tank is not getting ventilation? Try to start it with the fuel cap open. What problem was it that lead you to soldering?
Quote from: ramennoodles on August 16, 2011, 03:15:22 PM
maybe the tank is not getting ventilation? Try to start it with the fuel cap open. What problem was it that lead you to soldering?
The fuse harness was having continuity issues to the positive battery terminal... So removed it and soldered a new fuse to the rectifer and engine start switch red wires..
Quote from: JAY W on August 16, 2011, 01:34:51 PM
I`d have the spark plugs out and check for a spark firstly,as youv`e been at the wiring.
The engine turned over and was able to ride.. Once i hit 4th or 5th and about 50mph and went uphill that is when the engine decided to cut out and wouldn't turn over again after that... The electrical kept on trying (until the battery voltage dropped to 11.75 after all teh tries and it wouldn't even click the solenoid anymore). What could cause the engine to die like this? We are going to try to remove the carbs this weekend and clean them.
Sounds just like a bad frame petcock or a plugged fuel cap vent.It really sounds like an air locked tank from a clogged fuel cap vent.
Upgraded petcock is cheaper. http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=56352.0
Clean fuel cap cost 20 minutes. http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=41061.0
yep start with the easy stuff first.
tank venting open cap and listed for a whooosh.
petcock vacuum not actuating it. turn it to prime, wait 30 seconds, check for gas leaking and try again.
spark plugs. big blue spark?
plug wire not seated on coil good anymore?
With a float stuck it would be draining gas until the engine died unless you left the petcock on prime. Can tap the carb with a screwdriver handle to unstick it sometimes.
rectifier overheating, use the manual and see if it measures out the resistance properly. or replace/borrow known good one to test.
kill switch has a short and is set to "kill" even though it looks like it is not.
Carbs out of sync.
Not sure if these gs500s have this or not can't remember
clutch switch not engaging (some bikes have this on the clutch lever itself)
kickstand switch has a short in it.
Some people will tell you not to use a car battery to jump start it. if you do this do it with the car off.
Quote from: pookiebear on August 17, 2011, 02:50:58 PM
yep start with the easy stuff first.
tank venting open cap and listed for a whooosh.
petcock vacuum not actuating it. turn it to prime, wait 30 seconds, check for gas leaking and try again.
spark plugs. big blue spark?
plug wire not seated on coil good anymore?
With a float stuck it would be draining gas until the engine died unless you left the petcock on prime. Can tap the carb with a screwdriver handle to unstick it sometimes.
rectifier overheating, use the manual and see if it measures out the resistance properly. or replace/borrow known good one to test.
kill switch has a short and is set to "kill" even though it looks like it is not.
Carbs out of sync.
Not sure if these gs500s have this or not can't remember
clutch switch not engaging (some bikes have this on the clutch lever itself)
kickstand switch has a short in it.
Some people will tell you not to use a car battery to jump start it. if you do this do it with the car off.
Kickstand and clutch switch have both been bypassed (actually gotta look into the kickstand one again.. know for a fact clutch is bypassed).. Should just be the green to black/white wire for sidestand correct?
do you think your generator is working? Maybe the bike is running off the charged battery. One way I use to test this on my cars was to start the car, then removed the terminals off the battery. If it still ran, the alternators pushing enough juice. If not, then it was a bad alternator.
Quote from: ramennoodles on August 17, 2011, 03:35:09 PM
do you think your generator is working? Maybe the bike is running off the charged battery. One way I use to test this on my cars was to start the car, then removed the terminals off the battery. If it still ran, the alternators pushing enough juice. If not, then it was a bad alternator.
Was thinking of redoing all my generator connections cause they are kinda corroded... will run a full generator check while i am at it..
Interesting...I had a somewhat similar situation a few months back. Turned out my valves needed to be readjusted. If you're tearing down the carbs I'd take a look at them too.
On my 250 it did something like this. Was cruising and then knew something was wrong, coasted as far as I could when it shut off and pushed it the rest of the way. After checking everything I could think of, pulled the valve cover and saw the exhaust valve spring BROKE. Replaced it and was good to go.
yea a tight exhaust valve can do this too. Engine heats up the valve wont open enough. 2 hours later its cool enough to start. add that to the list of things to check.
Going to try to fix the bike tomorrow.. anything else i should look at? Also how should i check the exaust valve... really hoping i can fix it without paying a shop.
Rewired all the generator wires and soldered the kickstand safety switch to bypass it (insead of just twisting the wires)... seems to be running fine now
Pita is back home!!!
Friend just rode it from his garage to my house to test it out and seems that ever since replacing all the generator connections the bike is running great again.... Looks like the continuity issue over 1 of the wires was possibly causing the generator to not function... so the bike was just running off the battery and dieing after a few minutes.... atleast that is the working theory unless it happens again...
Hope that was it and you're good to go!
PITA stranded me this morning again... luckily the girlfriend picked me up and got me to work...
Same thing happened...
While riding about 50 in 3rd or 4th the bike starts overreving underreving (jerking back and forth a little) and then starts to lose power. if i let up off the throttle and grab the clutch the engine dies (power system still stays on) and oil light comes on....
Give it a few seconds to minutes and it fires back up (wont fire up before then tho) and will go for another few minutes until it dies again...
Anything I should look at or is it time i take it to a mechanic?
Edit: Should note it didnt' do this at all yesterday when I rode it all around town... It is now sitting at 77 miles on this tank and somewhere around half a tank left.
Have you considered that your ignition control module (black box) is failing?
I have had four different modules as I've looked for a good used one to take on trips as a spare. Of those, 3 have shown different types of failure - hard starting or low power, or inconsistent/low idle, failure to idle etc. including cutting out stone cold dead after starting and running fine for 5 minutes.
Quote from: bigfatcat on September 08, 2011, 07:39:24 AM
Have you considered that your ignition control module (black box) is failing?
I have had four different modules as I've looked for a good used one to take on trips as a spare. Of those, 3 have shown different types of failure - hard starting or low power, or inconsistent/low idle, failure to idle etc. including cutting out stone cold dead after starting and running fine for 5 minutes.
Any way to test? Local shop thinks it is carbs..
did you check to see if the gas cap is venting?
Quote from: ramennoodles on September 08, 2011, 04:02:32 PM
did you check to see if the gas cap is venting?
You think this would have a greater effect when the tank is half empty?
empty, half or full. It will have the same effect. Just clean it out to be sure. Or ride it around the block again and when it dies, open the gas cap and see if it starts back up right away
Quote from: ramennoodles on September 08, 2011, 04:52:09 PM
empty, half or full. It will have the same effect. Just clean it out to be sure. Or ride it around the block again and when it dies, open the gas cap and see if it starts back up right away
When it dies.. If i let it sit for about a minute it will start right back up.. but then 1/4 a mile or so and it dies again....
This is all after the initial death which happens randomly (this morning it happened after 15 minutes of riding in semi-stop and go and some 50mph constant.
Quote from: numus on September 08, 2011, 09:56:57 AM
Quote from: bigfatcat on September 08, 2011, 07:39:24 AM
Have you considered that your ignition control module (black box) is failing?
I have had four different modules as I've looked for a good used one to take on trips as a spare. Of those, 3 have shown different types of failure - hard starting or low power, or inconsistent/low idle, failure to idle etc. including cutting out stone cold dead after starting and running fine for 5 minutes.
Any way to test? Local shop thinks it is carbs..
If you're lucky it will be the carbs, relatively cheap to fix.
If not ...
You may be able to find a Suzuki dealer that has an electronic tester and a tech that knows how to use it - otherwise borrow a black box from a bike that's running good ... maybe from someone who lives near you.
Even if the black box you have is good, it will still fail if the voltage supply to it cuts out, because of faulty clutch, sidestand, emergency stop, ignition switches, broken wire, corroded connectors ... There must be continuity from the battery positive thru the orange/white wire to the black box at all times for the bike to run.
Switches or broken wire can partially fail so that they intermittently cut out, resulting in running problems that come and go and are hard to diagnose.
And there must also be continuity from the box thru the black/white wire to battery negative, otherwise the bike won't run.
BTW wire colors are for a '95 from Haynes manual, yours may be different .
Quote from: bigfatcat on September 09, 2011, 04:12:01 AM
Quote from: numus on September 08, 2011, 09:56:57 AM
Quote from: bigfatcat on September 08, 2011, 07:39:24 AM
Have you considered that your ignition control module (black box) is failing?
I have had four different modules as I've looked for a good used one to take on trips as a spare. Of those, 3 have shown different types of failure - hard starting or low power, or inconsistent/low idle, failure to idle etc. including cutting out stone cold dead after starting and running fine for 5 minutes.
Any way to test? Local shop thinks it is carbs..
If you're lucky it will be the carbs, relatively cheap to fix.
If not ...
You may be able to find a Suzuki dealer that has an electronic tester and a tech that knows how to use it - otherwise borrow a black box from a bike that's running good ... maybe from someone who lives near you.
Even if the black box you have is good, it will still fail if the voltage supply to it cuts out, because of faulty clutch, sidestand, emergency stop, ignition switches, broken wire, corroded connectors ... There must be continuity from the battery positive thru the orange/white wire to the black box at all times for the bike to run.
Switches or broken wire can partially fail so that they intermittently cut out, resulting in running problems that come and go and are hard to diagnose.
And there must also be continuity from the box thru the black/white wire to battery negative, otherwise the bike won't run.
BTW wire colors are for a '95 from Haynes manual, yours may be different .
Been trying to figure it out based on the symptoms (I am an analytical chemist so i look at everything from an analytical approach). The hardest part for me to figure out is that it isn't an immediate cutoff... the bike looses power but will still run if I increase the throttle.. It is when i let off the throttle and the RPM's dip down that it then kills the motor... It is also VERY random when it happens.. but once it happens the first time it will happen every few minutes after that.. but i have gone months without it showing up again.. This is why they believe it is the carbs and crap in them...
you could also try some seafoam added into your gas. Seafoam is great, I use it on my GS and cars. I guess the correct way would be to take out carbs and clean, but seafoam is still tite. and that gas tank cap not venting does cause the exact symptoms you are getting. Engine shut off for a few minutes will allow the gas tank to release all that built up vacuum inside of it. Then when it starts back up and you ride, the more gas you need the more vacuum gets built up. Thats why it is important that the little tiny hole is open at the top of the tank
Pita is getting a sister this weekend... Picking up a GSX600F since pita is no longer reliable.. Hopefully I can get her running again and then i can decide what I am going to do.
Quote from: ramennoodles on September 09, 2011, 03:40:51 PM
you could also try some seafoam added into your gas. Seafoam is great, I use it on my GS and cars. I guess the correct way would be to take out carbs and clean, but seafoam is still tite. and that gas tank cap not venting does cause the exact symptoms you are getting. Engine shut off for a few minutes will allow the gas tank to release all that built up vacuum inside of it. Then when it starts back up and you ride, the more gas you need the more vacuum gets built up. Thats why it is important that the little tiny hole is open at the top of the tank
There is Seafoam in the gastank right now... It died even with seafoam for a couple days.. I dont think it is the CDI anymore either...
We were able to get her cranked up with choke on, and even got the choke off but once she warmed up the engine died again... Then she wouldn't turn over until cold again...
Tried running it with the gas cap open and it still wont work... Think the carbs are just crapped up...
On a side note: Test drove a Ninja 650r... the bars are WAY to high and way to narrow and the bike is so light i thought it was just going to tip over while riding... was very uncomfortable on it... SV650 rode super nice but don't want to spend that much more then I am already spending...
Pita got a new sister
(http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd450/numus2/IMG_0173.jpg)