Hi guys, as you know the gs kinda 'eats' engine oil, and I have to add some constantly. The one in the engine is Castrol and I'm out of it, and I would like to switch to Motul...would it be ok to add some Motul on top of the Castrol?
Thanks in advance, I know it's a dumb question I just want to be sure.
According to law in several countries, oil companies must ensure (in this case: motor) oils to be mixable. Therefore I don't see any problems mixing mineral and/or half-synthetic oils. I'd avoid any full-synthetic oil as the clutch might be slipping.
Quote from: Ionatan on August 25, 2011, 02:29:27 PM
Hi guys, as you know the gs kinda 'eats' engine oil, and I have to add some constantly. The one in the engine is Castrol and I'm out of it, and I would like to switch to Motul...would it be ok to add some Motul on top of the Castrol?
Thanks in advance, I know it's a dumb question I just want to be sure.
As long as the oil you add is the correct spec forthe bike it is ok to mix brands and even viscositiy ranges...supposedly even synthetic and non synthetic but I wouldn't do that.
Once you have a real "oil burner" it really doesn't matter anyway....the bigger issue will eventually catch up with you. My old car was that way, and I just kept throwing any old half opened, oil I had hangaing around the garage or basement, or cheap discount store oil........
Cookie
Quote from: twocool on August 25, 2011, 03:12:54 PM
Quote from: Ionatan on August 25, 2011, 02:29:27 PM
Once you have a real "oil burner" it really doesn't matter anyway....the bigger issue will eventually catch up with you. My old car was that way, and I just kept throwing any old half opened, oil I had hangaing around the garage or basement, or cheap discount store oil........
Cookie
+1 :thumb:
-Jessie
My 1994 with 35,000 kms + doesn't burn a drop of oil.
Quote from: jacob_ns on August 25, 2011, 10:06:37 PM
My 1994 with 35,000 kms + doesn't burn a drop of oil.
You want a round of applause lol? (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/Smileys/classic/applause.gif)
My '09 hasn't used any oil either.
Quote from: uninhibited on August 26, 2011, 12:58:15 AM
My '09 hasn't used any oil either.
Actually, internal combuston piston engines SHOULD use a little oil, They have to if they are working correctly.
Cookie
Quote from: twocool on August 26, 2011, 04:08:14 AM
Actually, internal combuston piston engines SHOULD use a little oil, They have to if they are working correctly.
My bike's malfunctioning then. ;)
Mine uses oil.
But only on the chain.
Quote from: HardcoreKeith on August 26, 2011, 06:44:23 AM
Quote from: twocool on August 26, 2011, 04:08:14 AM
Actually, internal combuston piston engines SHOULD use a little oil, They have to if they are working correctly.
My bike's malfunctioning then. ;)
Excerpt from article on oil consumption below...explains why all engines use some oil...yours probably uses so little that it is unmeasurable! I have heard of cases where the engine used no oil, and this was because there was no oil lubing the rings...and this can lead to engine damage.. not the case for your bike)
:whisper:
(Section 6 - Engine).
All engines require oil to lubricate and protect the load bearing and internal moving parts
from wear including cylinder walls, pistons and piston rings. When a piston moves down
its cylinder, a thin film of oil is left on the cylinder wall. During the power stroke, part of
this oil layer is consumed in the combustion process. As a result, varying rates of oil
consumption are accepted as normal in all engines.
Oil Consumption
The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles referenced is 0.946
liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi). This rate only applies to personal use vehicles, under
warranty, maintained in accordance with the appropriate maintenance schedule, with less
than 58,000 km (36,000 mi), or 80,450 km (50,000 mi) for Cadillac, driven at legal
speeds in an unloaded (for trucks) condition.
Many factors can affect an owner's concern with oil consumption. Driving habits and
vehicle maintenance vary from owner to owner. Thoroughly evaluate each case before
deciding whether the vehicle in question has abnormal engine oil consumption.
Quote from: twocool on August 26, 2011, 07:04:40 AM
Quote from: HardcoreKeith on August 26, 2011, 06:44:23 AM
Quote from: twocool on August 26, 2011, 04:08:14 AM
Actually, internal combuston piston engines SHOULD use a little oil, They have to if they are working correctly.
My bike's malfunctioning then. ;)
Excerpt from article on oil consumption below...explains why all engines use some oil...yours probably uses so little that it is unmeasurable! I have heard of cases where the engine used no oil, and this was because there was no oil lubing the rings...and this can lead to engine damage.. not the case for your bike)
:whisper:
(Section 6 - Engine).
All engines require oil to lubricate and protect the load bearing and internal moving parts
from wear including cylinder walls, pistons and piston rings. When a piston moves down
its cylinder, a thin film of oil is left on the cylinder wall. During the power stroke, part of
this oil layer is consumed in the combustion process. As a result, varying rates of oil
consumption are accepted as normal in all engines.
Oil Consumption
The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles referenced is 0.946
liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi). This rate only applies to personal use vehicles, under
warranty, maintained in accordance with the appropriate maintenance schedule, with less
than 58,000 km (36,000 mi), or 80,450 km (50,000 mi) for Cadillac, driven at legal
speeds in an unloaded (for trucks) condition.
Many factors can affect an owner's concern with oil consumption. Driving habits and
vehicle maintenance vary from owner to owner. Thoroughly evaluate each case before
deciding whether the vehicle in question has abnormal engine oil consumption.
Toyota allows 1 quart every 1,200 miles before it considers oil consumption excessive for warranty purposes :icon_eek:
While were getting off topic, you guys may want to familiarize yourself with the concept of "blow by". No matter what oil you use blow by occurs which is my major issue with extending service intervals because you use synthetic oil.
-Jessie
Preventive maintenance is meant to prevent maintenance.
And, yes, I have successfully switched from Castrol to Motul due to moving away from the shop that has Castrol. '94 with 55,000+ miles and maybe burns half a quart a month.
Quote from: twocool on August 26, 2011, 07:04:40 AM
Excerpt from article on oil consumption below...explains why all engines use some oil...yours probably uses so little that it is unmeasurable!
Admittedly, I do change my oil early & often.
Quote from: twocool on August 26, 2011, 07:04:40 AM
Quote from: HardcoreKeith on August 26, 2011, 06:44:23 AM
Quote from: twocool on August 26, 2011, 04:08:14 AM
Actually, internal combuston piston engines SHOULD use a little oil, They have to if they are working correctly.
My bike's malfunctioning then. ;)
Excerpt from article on oil consumption below...explains why all engines use some oil...yours probably uses so little that it is unmeasurable! I have heard of cases where the engine used no oil, and this was because there was no oil lubing the rings...and this can lead to engine damage.. not the case for your bike)
:whisper:
(Section 6 - Engine).
All engines require oil to lubricate and protect the load bearing and internal moving parts
from wear including cylinder walls, pistons and piston rings. When a piston moves down
its cylinder, a thin film of oil is left on the cylinder wall. During the power stroke, part of
this oil layer is consumed in the combustion process. As a result, varying rates of oil
consumption are accepted as normal in all engines.
Oil Consumption
The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles referenced is 0.946
liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi). This rate only applies to personal use vehicles, under
warranty, maintained in accordance with the appropriate maintenance schedule, with less
than 58,000 km (36,000 mi), or 80,450 km (50,000 mi) for Cadillac, driven at legal
speeds in an unloaded (for trucks) condition.
Many factors can affect an owner's concern with oil consumption. Driving habits and
vehicle maintenance vary from owner to owner. Thoroughly evaluate each case before
deciding whether the vehicle in question has abnormal engine oil consumption.
Accepted rate? Accepted by whom?
Oh wait, I found it...
All 1997-2007 GM Passengers Cars and Gasoline Powered Light Duty trucks. Yeah, That rate applies to motorbikes made by Suzuki...
NOT!My bike too, must be broke, cause there is no
noticeable oil usage between 6,000km services on my 42,000km ODO K9 model. :icon_mrgreen:
As to the OP's original question... call Motul and ASK them. Call Caltex and ASK them. Then post their answers here for all of us to see.
It is claimed by some, that while you can mix various offering by a brand, you cannot mix brands - well, you can but you shouldn't - due to brand's different additive's not mixing in a friendly way. This is why I suggest to get the skinny from the horse's mouth. :thumb:
Michael
Quote from: mister on August 26, 2011, 12:34:27 PM
Quote from: twocool on August 26, 2011, 07:04:40 AM
Quote from: HardcoreKeith on August 26, 2011, 06:44:23 AM
Quote from: twocool on August 26, 2011, 04:08:14 AM
Actually, internal combuston piston engines SHOULD use a little oil, They have to if they are working correctly.
My bike's malfunctioning then. ;)
Excerpt from article on oil consumption below...explains why all engines use some oil...yours probably uses so little that it is unmeasurable! I have heard of cases where the engine used no oil, and this was because there was no oil lubing the rings...and this can lead to engine damage.. not the case for your bike)
:whisper:
(Section 6 - Engine).
All engines require oil to lubricate and protect the load bearing and internal moving parts
from wear including cylinder walls, pistons and piston rings. When a piston moves down
its cylinder, a thin film of oil is left on the cylinder wall. During the power stroke, part of
this oil layer is consumed in the combustion process. As a result, varying rates of oil
consumption are accepted as normal in all engines.
Oil Consumption
The accepted rate of oil consumption for engines used in the vehicles referenced is 0.946
liter (1 qt) in 3200 km (2000 mi). This rate only applies to personal use vehicles, under
warranty, maintained in accordance with the appropriate maintenance schedule, with less
than 58,000 km (36,000 mi), or 80,450 km (50,000 mi) for Cadillac, driven at legal
speeds in an unloaded (for trucks) condition.
Many factors can affect an owner's concern with oil consumption. Driving habits and
vehicle maintenance vary from owner to owner. Thoroughly evaluate each case before
deciding whether the vehicle in question has abnormal engine oil consumption.
Accepted rate? Accepted by whom?
Oh wait, I found it... All 1997-2007 GM Passengers Cars and Gasoline Powered Light Duty trucks. Yeah, That rate applies to motorbikes made by Suzuki... NOT!
My bike too, must be broke, cause there is no noticeable oil usage between 6,000km services on my 42,000km ODO K9 model. :icon_mrgreen:
As to the OP's original question... call Motul and ASK them. Call Caltex and ASK them. Then post their answers here for all of us to see.
It is claimed by some, that while you can mix various offering by a brand, you cannot mix brands - well, you can but you shouldn't - due to brand's different additive's not mixing in a friendly way. This is why I suggest to get the skinny from the horse's mouth. :thumb:
Michael
Michael...just an example to show the phenomenon......using oil, at least at some reasonable amount is "normal" in that it does not indicate engine troubles....too high oil usage means trouble...
It is impossible to use NO oil....but possible that there is no noticeable drop in 3600 miles....
Yes you can mix brands...no problem.....but then again brand X is going to say "only use brand x"...
Cookie
i change my oil when i see a change in oil colour on the dip stick. it is always before scheduled maintains period. this is a good indicator that your oil filter is blocked and starting to bypass through pressure relief valve .Some filters have more filtering area than others. pull your filter to bits and have a good look at it ,if you find metal particles in there you can get an early warning of problems in motor.
I'm kinda afraid to chime in on such a sensitive topic as engine oil :D
But I'd say that consumption rate also depends on how hard you ride.
My experience:
2001 GS, 49800 km (30950 mi).
Last July I went for a 3-day trip with friends, total about 1150 km (710 mi), of which 2/3 were highway at 130-140 km/h (80-90 mph) average.
Took oil level fo "F" notch before leaving - when I got back home I checked it again and the oil was just barely touching the dipstick's tip. :icon_eek: Phew.
A few days later I changed oil and filter and poured in 2.9 liters as per OEM manual up to the "F" notch.
Especially when I ride solo my riding style is quite conservative (I usually shift at no more than 5-6k).
Fast forward 1200 kms again (now) - the oil level is still stuck at F.
I definitely agree with Simon on this one. Riding style has a big effect on consumption. Of course, I used automotive oil in my GS due to money being short, the semi-synthetic was a little over half what motorcycle specific oil cost up here. I used a lot less oil after adding it. I bought a quart of motorcycle oil about a month ago, and the last couple times I checked the oil, it was still close to full, so I haven't added any of it.
Runabout, you know you can use certain diesel oils too, right? As long as there is a spec called JA-MO (something like that), it is ok for wet clutches in motorcycles. And it's usually cheaper than car and cycle oils.
Quote from: Big Rich on August 27, 2011, 02:09:20 AM
Runabout, you know you can use certain diesel oils too, right? As long as there is a spec called JA-MO (something like that), it is ok for wet clutches in motorcycles. And it's usually cheaper than car and cycle oils.
I think the old Caltex Delo 400 is one of em
Quote from: Twisted on August 27, 2011, 08:03:52 AM
Quote from: Big Rich on August 27, 2011, 02:09:20 AM
Runabout, you know you can use certain diesel oils too, right? As long as there is a spec called JA-MO (something like that), it is ok for wet clutches in motorcycles. And it's usually cheaper than car and cycle oils.
I think the old Caltex Delo 400 is one of em
I use Rotella T 15W-40 now which carries the JASO-MA motorcycle rating and has for a couple years now. I used some Delo 400 a couple years ago when a local Autozone had a bunch on sale and it didn't have a JASO motorcycle rating but the Shell Rotella didn't have it then either. Delo is not regularly available in this area.
I think any of the truck aka diesel aka heavy duty oils from the major oil companies would pass the JASO-MA test but the producers just haven't gone to the expense of doing the testing to get the rating yet, their major market is trucks not motorcycles.
Just make sure an oil is JASO-MA rated if does have a JASO mc rating on it and not the JASO-MB which is for motorcycles that don't have the clutches running in the engine oil. The JASO-MB has the friction reducers in it.
I think the 15W-40 Rotella T or an equivelant is the best oil for our GS500s. That statement should help increase the post count. :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol: By the way I used the full synthetic 15W-50 Mobil 1 auto oil in my 97 GS for about 50k miles before switching to the heavy duty dino juice oils and found the Delo, Delvac, and Rotella T type oils much better for my needs.
Quote from: simon79 on August 27, 2011, 01:26:25 AM
I'm kinda afraid to chime in on such a sensitive topic as engine oil :D
2001 GS, 49800 km (30950 mi).
Last July I went for a 3-day trip with friends, total about 1150 km (710 mi), of which 2/3 were
Yeah "sensitive" to say the least......Some interesting internet discussions on many groups.
Americans are "loyal to their oil".......
Internet search will give lots of good and useful information on motor oil.....will also give the typical myths and misconceptions.........
There is a common thread with the misconceptions...that is to get the money out of your wallet and into somebody else's!!
These usually involve more frequent changes than necessary, using a more expensive brand or type than necessary, or "our brand is better than their brand"......or some vague, hollow unprovable claims of "performance" or secret ingredients...
You must try to figure out whether your informantion is coming from the enginering department...or the marketing department....
The good news is that falling for the marketing ploys usually does not result in any bad effects to your machine.........just bad for the wallet.
Cookie
All about Oil (http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html)
Makes for a decent read.
To answer your original question, mixing oils is fine. I believe you can mix synthetic and dino as well.
It's fine to mix brands, and it's fine to mix synthetic oil with a non synthetic. Only issue is that you have to treat the resulting mix as if it's non-synthetic when it comes to things like extended drain intervals.
Of course, you should make sure that whatever you put in your bike meets the ratings and requirements for your particular bike.
Also, a synthetic will not cause clutch slip unless you already have clutch issues. I've run a number of synthetics in my bike, and never had a problem. Worst issue I ever had was a slipping clutch caused by overheating due to repeated race launches. When it cooled down it worked normally. Synthetic actually helped there.
I didn't realize that I could use the diesel oil, thanks for the heads up. I still have not had to add oil for over a month, and I've done some pretty spirited rides, 25 miles each way every day to work. I just wish I could remember which oil I put in it.