OK here is exhibit #1 in the healthcare debate.
Lets say there is a town that has 2 hospitals. Those 2 hospitals run @ 50% of their bed capacity. OK so now they are opening 2 more hospitals in that town.
Can anyone guess what will happen to your hospital bill when you go to the hospital ?
Cool.
Buddha.
OK since no one has answered ...
Your medical bill from a hospital stay will more than double. They cover their operating costs etc with the occupied beds. So going from 50% occupancy to 25% will cost you 2 X.
Nice logic, even more interesting is the fact that if one of the hospitals is more $, obviously they will be, newer = more $, that will make the rest also raise their $.
This is also why hospital companies - yes there are hospital companies, race to open hospitals in well served areas.
Guess what, if we kill medical insurance as it operates now and forced the companies/hospitals to post their prices on the wall and you had to pay that @ the time of the service, you will be able to get an insurance submittal electronically but that is all the hospital does for the insurance.
That would put the surplus hospitals out of business, get the occupancy rates up closer to 75% and cut everyone's medical bills by I dunno say 90%.
It will also clear out the Hospital chains and the "new" hospitals out of the system. Compete on price or perish.
Cool.
Buddha.
I believe all hospitals should go back to being nonprofit. I did an internship at Death Central ooops I mean Health Central. The week before budgets were due. We had no thermometer probes, Red blood tubes, was running low on gloves. All, because it was the week before the budget so we either had to steal from other floors or due with out. Because at that hospital it was stock holders first not the patients!
For a western country our medical system is pitiful. Where ERs replace your family doctor because of no insurance. When a doctor will not take you on as a patient without insurance. I waited 4 hours in an ER once with a blood clot in my lung while I was slumped over in a chair almost dead the lady next to me had her two kids there getting school physicals. If there isn't something wrong with that picture than I don't know.
Mary
and it will get worse lol. but agreed on the non profit idea. and buddha. on your listed prices idea, what if someone cant afford it, do they do without?
I think non profit idea will crash and burn - just the skeptic in me, the reason is, it is non profit after they pay their execs etc. They could do what Charlotte's united way did by paying their CEO several million a year ... heck they were a charity, essentially living off the donations of others.
Prices on the wall will do 2-3 things ... well modern day wall is the internet, so they will have to be on the internet and in advertising bill boards too ... Imagine this "Hospital A says $1000 a night, all services included complete with pic of bed, and apparatus to pull/install any body part" ... drive few miles down the road and you see another sign "hospital B ... 500" ... few more miles and its now 300 ... just like fast food, it will seek its level. It will send the customers to the lowest price till the rest get the message, then it will straight up be a race to the bottom.
Second, if everyone in the area has low income, you obviously are going to lose patients if your prices are too high cos some people who can do without will. You dont expect to find a burger in Manhattan for the same price you would in nebraska.
Thirdly doctors and hospitals now dont get all the $ they try to bill you for, they get a fraction. In fact if you check doctors plans, they get most of their $ via the deductible. You pay 20 and insurance pays 10 for what they bill the insrance @ 200. That means tha t200 is just a random number. The doctor can advertise their proces @ 25 get rid of the whole staff that is needed to send the bill to insurance and still come out ahead.
You cant afford doctors cos now they dont have to publish prices and hence they say its 200 and you're stuck with that bill.
BTW that number is even more glaring in a medical test bill. I once got billed 5 grand which of course I kicked the snot ut of them cos it was labcorp's mistake ... but that test gets reimbursed @ something like $1.25 by insurance.
There is a lot of numbers floating around that really do not need to be ... prices on the wall, internet and a paper will eliminate all that. Even more importantly, you want test a lets say, you cant walkinto a lab and ask for it, you need doctors note, cos they will try to send it to insurance ... You dont have the option of saying screw that, your test is $20 here ... test me.
Prices on the wall and no insurance will settle things into the fast food level of prices ... cos they will ahve to compete. Its the funny money that is the problem. In India I could test myself without going to a doctor. Doctor, I pay right on the spot. Simple, no billing the insurance and then they come back a 100 times this and that and the doc needs a hige staff to cover that and I need to fight on the phone ...
It will also as a side note take care of mary's problem ... atleast ... no one will be doing physicals in an ER, they can just pay 25 bucks @ their doc instead of $50 @ the ER.
The reason healthcare costs are so high is due to the secrecy and the staff needed to keep the paper work ...
Cool.
Buddha.
On the wall pricing isn't impossible. Over in my second-favourite place in the world - Sri Lanka - hospitals often post prices. See Lanka Hospitals on:
http://www.lankahospitals.org/data/medical_facilities/special_promotion.htm
Divide the rupees by 100 to get a rough dollar cost. And I gotta say, the standard of care in the SL health system is b****y good. Puts things like our Aussie waiting lists to shame.
Woops, try
http://www.lankahospitals.org/data/medical_facilities/special_promotion.html
Where you think I got the idea from - well India, not SL. And India health care is pretty damn good too. There people do surgery like in my aunt's case in spite of her high blood pressure. Indian doctors actually also make good $ and live in the top 5% of society. Unlike here where they make decent $ only if they open their practice etc.
Cool.
Buddha.
Ofcourse in India you need to make atleast the top 5% in your graduating class to make medical school, probably live @ home with your parents and grandparents till you're 30 married and have a few kids ... and ride a bicycle to your clinic cos it 2 miles away. You will also live and die and be cremated in the 5 mile circle around the house you were born in.
That makes it a very inexpensive way to live. Any $ you make till you turn 30 will be dropped off into a saving account. After that 90% will be saved.
I cant imagine to live like that now, however @ one time I did. I told my mom I'd rather be unemployed than move to another city. Heck I was more comfortable moving to the US than moving to another state in India. There they dont speak english or tamil. And I dont speak anything other than english or tamil, end of story.
Cool.
Buddha.
OK so let me rephrase what I thinnk should happen and the order in which it should ...
Step 1. There should be a legislation cutting off the whole Insurance and medical providers "negotiated rate". Medical field needs to focus on patient care, billing and garbage is not needed to be handled by 100 "staffers". 1 cashier the doctor and the nurse is all you would need. Yea yea a little simplistic, but the "mommy mommy I have a fever" will be addressed by that type of doctor.
Step 2. The doctor office will post the appropriate rate on the wall. You may think they will post their super high price, however remember much like the guy that sells McD's burgers for $2 is going to end up with a lot of rotten burgers ... a doctor that wants $500 for a fever will sit unemployed. They now get 20 bucks form you in a second and spend 2-3 hours chasing another 10 from insurance. They will easily figure out 30 bucks from you in 1 second is a much much better deal and it will quickly get there ... Heck legislate that cos the chase to the bottom may take a month or so, so legislate that too just to get people to not have to worry for that 1 month. Rates need to be set to the negotiated rate of the lowest insurance carrier they accept ...
Step 3. You get the information to submit to insurance on some electronic media. Depending on how good/bad your insurance is you get all/none of it. If you got a crappy insurance and you know it, you will not even bother sending in the $10 ... of course if you need brain surgery and it runs to 1000's ... yea by all means its worth sending it. In that instance the doctor will send the bill to the insurance for you ...
Cool.
Buddha.
Insurance industry intentionally wastes money.
A $1400 claim for a new tooth crown. UW Dental Clinic knows what to do, but they have to do a "predetermination" (laymans terms for a high school dropout at a desk stamping everything "DENIED")
1. DENIED - need xrays
2. xrays sent
3. DENIED need to know when root canal done
4. Told 30 years ago
5. DENIED - need xrays
WTF? They already had them!
Now back hands of UW Dental to re-send what they already sent. Bet $100 it comes back again as DENIED because they need to know about the root canal. :flipoff: :cookoo: :dunno_black:
All this expense probably costs more than the claim when you figure everyone's times spent on it.
That's why we get nothing for our health care dollars.
I had another claim denied for a tooth damage from a fall. DENIED - dentist is not a medical doctor. DENIED - wrong code put on form and I have to find the right code.
Mothers medical: Claim denied because doctor didn't put on her medicare number. The insurance company has her medicare number. WTF? Can't they check their own records?
Endless bureaucracy.
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on October 11, 2011, 11:48:56 PM
I believe all hospitals should go back to being nonprofit.
Yes. Health care should not be a for profit industry. It is a grotesque idea that a company can gain profit by denying health service to people, that a bean counter determines what is covered based on a script. It is a grotesque idea that your quality of health care is tied to where you work - or how much you are willing to pay as an individual.
QuoteFor a western country our medical system is pitiful.
Where else to people declare bankruptcy over health care costs? Here in the land of the free you are free to use the insurance company provided by your employer and then free to see a doctor that takes that insurance.
QuoteWhere ERs replace your family doctor because of no insurance.
Big problem here. People don't see a doctor to get small things fixed so they become big and expensive when they go to the emergency room.
I actually think hospitals can make a profit by putting prices on the wall. In the case of that you will also see nearly no wait times @ the ER's cos there isn't 100 people shuffling paper work before they will let you see a nurse. You also will have nearly no one that is doing routine maintenance @ the er cos they dont have insurance. No one cares about insurance. Seriously the bloated bureaucracy around all of this is why no one makes a profit and it costs the consumer 1000's ...
It is actually cheaper to get on a plane, fly to India, stay @ a hotel and get your root canal done and fly back than it does here with insurance. Seriously, something is very wrong.
And no Government take over isn't the answer, proper free market is the answer.
Imagine this - You walk into a restaurant and order food wihtout any prices listed, and you dont even pay there, you get someone else to pay them like 6-8 months later ... guess what, then a whopper+fries will soon cost 500 bucks and ketchup will not be available at all, it will have been regulated out of existence and if you ask for BBQ sauce instead you will be disqualified for having a pre-existing condtion after the fact ... several months after in fact and then your burger will be 35,000 and you will have to pay that or get harassed by collectors. You do know that liking some kind of sauce with fries is a pre-existing condition right ... yea I thought so.
Cool.
Buddha.
Don't you know Buddha they are taking the RN out of triage! I went to ORMC on Sunday when my heart started acting up. I walk up to what used to be the registration desk guy points me to a computer. Ur, uhm I'm having chest pain well fill out the info on the computer and we will see you shortly :cookoo: I went to the computer my brain fuzzy because my bp was crashing the first thing it asked me for was my debit card. I'm like not only no but hell no! So, I pressed I didn't have a card so it scanned my DL instead. Waited about a half an hour and finally got called back to speak with an RN by that point bp was in the 70's she freaked out esp when I told her my cardiac history and wondered why I didn't tell the person at the desk "Uhm, I did he sent me to the computer to register". She stated that damned system is going to get someone killed and ran to get the doctor.
I honestly don't believe the avg patient is smart enough to differentiate costs and what is better etc. Even so my doc in Boston world renowned easy to get a hold of doesn't cost me any more money than my joe schmoe doesn't know his head from a hole in the ground guy because he is in the same network as the local guy.
Now this is just my belief but I think Uncle Sam should cover preventative care and if you don't take care of yourself that is where insurance or you come into play. If we would just stop the obesity pandemic we could save billions in health care. But, insurance wouldn't want that because that is now money out of their pockets. BTW genetic disorders suck!
Mary
And we probably don't need or even want to know this, but there's all that stuff about how, on average, 80% of a punter's total health expenditure occurs in the last six months of life. :sad:
Government needs to take control and cover everyone for basic healthcare like in Britain, canada or Australia. Over here you can get private health insurance which gets you a private room in hospital and priority with specialists, also stuff like chiro, dental etc is covered. You pay a gap fee depending on your income and yeah there's not much else to it. The system has its flaws but it's like 85% there.
Quote from: aussiegs on October 15, 2011, 07:00:38 AM
Government needs to take control and cover everyone for basic healthcare like in Britain, canada or Australia. Over here you can get private health insurance which gets you a private room in hospital and priority with specialists, also stuff like chiro, dental etc is covered. You pay a gap fee depending on your income and yeah there's not much else to it. The system has its flaws but it's like 85% there.
Yeah, for our US friends....
We pay 1.5% tax for Medicare. Everyone has a Medicare Card even if they do not work. When you want to go to a Doctor, you show them your Medicare Card. The Dr has the option of accepting the money the govt pays for services or charging more. Eg. if the Govt pays $30 for a 15 minute consultation the Dr can accept that, at which point you pay nothing - or - he will charge you $40, in which case you pay the $40 then go to the Medicare office and get $30 back from them.
ALL Public hospitals only charge what the card gets them, so you walk in, show your card and get treatment - standard hospitals stuff plus dental (long wait for Free dental).
If you do like Aussie suggests and Also have your own Private Health Cover, your Govt Medicare Levy is reduced as a slight offset. Some Private Coverage offers free dental, discount athletic goods, cheaper eyewear, etc., as well a paying for specialists Outside of the Hospital (you can always see a hospital based specialist at hospital for free (who usually have a Private Practice where they charge a bomb) and so on.
*I* don't bother with the Private Coverage. I haven't been sick since 1992 and if I am in such an emergency state I am also in no condition to Choose my Dr.
OH... we Used to have Subscription Ambulance here. Like motorvehicle roadside breakdown assistance but for Ambulance. But now, it is compulsory and the fee is tacked onto your powerbill. So any time you need an Ambo, call and they come and you pay No Additional Cost.
Michael
Michael
Except they've scraped the ambo levy, and I forget how it's gonna be covered weather were taking out our own subscription again or the government is just gonna cover it. Either way our state government touted it as a saving on our skyrocketing power bills, then announced an increase to the power price that makes the saving virtually redundant. But that's another topic for another time.
At least here in Central Florida you pay all kinds of taxes one for 911 service, another for fire department, and then you get a charge from the private ambulance companies then charge you on top of that! I do wish they would give you a roll of duct tape to make holding your ankles a bit easier :o They are also petitioning to get rid of BLS all together where if it is a basic life support call an EMT can ride in the back but since a call can turn ALS Advanced Life Support they weeded us out for EMT-P so they can say all calls are ALS therefore it is like $100 per mile vs $50 a mile! Now, back in February I had myocarditis I didn't realize how bad I was so I went to my PCP she put the O2 sat on me and I was at 83% so she freaked had the rescue come out took me 1/4 mile to the hospital when I got there my troponins had skyrocketed and so I got life flighted. The bill from Florida Hospital Kissimmee to Florida Hospital Orlando was $28,900. Wellcare, denied my flight coverage because of the ER doc didn't get prior auth. Sorry, that he was busy saving my life so I've been fighting since February to get them to pay.
Being sick is a full-time job in itself. Yet, I'm also a full-time student and work. I have a college degree yet it takes every shred of intelligence that I have to negotiate the quagmire of Medicare.
Mary
Govt health care is far worse ... ever been to the dmv ? yea that times 1000.
Mary your heart episode - guess what in India you'd have had a number you'd call for your doctor or in some cases eve nthe hospital. See there is an item in the price list that says "house call" ... remember those ... yea ...
I cant understand how this system got this screwed up. heck we had house calls before there were phones.
I got some severe typhoid when I was like 10. Every other day the doctor would come home ~9 pm. We knew it, no one called ahead, the first time my dad went to the doctor to get them notified cos I was too sick to be taken there.
Sorry this is going to come as no use to you Mary but if you were in India in 1980 I'd have delivered the best doctor I could find to your house. I am saying 1980 cos that was about when it happened that I recall fondly. The next house call I had to my house was @ the death of my dad in 1990. In between no one for sick enough to not be able to get to the doc.
Govt out of healthcare, insurance out of health care ... get rid of all the middle men. They only prevent people from talking to each other.
Cool.
Buddha.
If the government and the insurance companies get out of healthcare who is gonna run it? The hospitals??? I can just see some wealthy conglomorate comming along and running it more tightly and completly into the ground worse than before. There needs to be a completly indapendant body to run the health system (yes I realise in this day that is a pipe dream), recieving government funding to cover every man woman and child for everything they need, sure they need to contribute to this but at least you dont face the choice of which finger they re attach when you get three chopped off like in 'Sicko'. You get em all re attached!
No one needs to run health care, cos there will be no healthcare. Who runs fast food ? OK fine pepsi and coke run it.
However they are chasing each other to the bottom. That will occour unless the big companies are colluding. That will be a "cartel" and there fore illegal. Competition is good. Just needs to be a true competition.
Fast food is held in check due to the fact that they have to publish prices. No we'll do this for you and send you a bill later, we dunno how much what is ... but we'll bill your insurance company and get paid, all is cool ... makes it all very expensive.
When you walk in you know you're out for 3-4-5 bucks depending on what you are eating. Same with a hospital.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: aussiegs on October 16, 2011, 08:03:44 PM
If the government and the insurance companies get out of healthcare who is gonna run it? The hospitals??? I can just see some wealthy conglomorate comming along and running it more tightly and completly into the ground worse than before. There needs to be a completly indapendant body to run the health system (yes I realise in this day that is a pipe dream), recieving government funding to cover every man woman and child for everything they need, sure they need to contribute to this but at least you dont face the choice of which finger they re attach when you get three chopped off like in 'Sicko'. You get em all re attached!
The easiest most economically sound policy for Americans is open cross-border healthcare and do away with so much malpractice insurance. Make malpractice suits harder to get. The competition will drive prices down and you can be as long as the government kept a keen eye on collusion it would be better. Before this though, pre-existing has to be the first thing to go. The last thing anyone needs is an unqualified suit receiving benefits for every person he turns away.
The current healthcare industry is beyond the most corrupt and under-regulated industry in America. It stands second only to the gas companies.
I dont think malpractice can be done away with. But the lie we have heard is that, that is what makes doctors visits so $$$ ...
Sorry calling their bluff, they happily work for 25-30 bucks per patients visit and they have like a good 3-4 people pushing paper ... instead we give them 25-30 bucks and get rid of insurance, nothing else changes. Does not need to.
I think paying the doctor on the spot gives the doctor the right sense of loyalty.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on October 17, 2011, 06:46:04 AM
No one needs to run health care, cos there will be no healthcare.
I'm trying to understand your position but I'm having a hard time because what I think you are saying makes absolutely no sense.
I'm riding home from work tomorrow and get hit by some 80 year old late for bingo. It's a bad accident, I'm unconscious and have life threatening injuries. An ambulance arrives and takes me to the nearest trauma center. After several days of great (and expensive) treatment I regain consciousness. I'm told I'll probably be in the hospital for about another two weeks and then have therapy for months afterward.
My bill to this point is $50,000 with another $50,000 - $60,000 in the future (totally made up numbers, I have no idea). Since I have no insurance and the government isn't involved in this libertarian utopia of yours I get to pay this myself? How? Not being a forum moderator I don't have that kind of money lying aroung. How about if one of my kids developed cancer? I can pay for the drugs and chemo out of my pocket? How about if my mother needs a hip replacement, or a heart replacement.
As much as I despise the current US system of for profit medicine with insurance as compared to the system in my native Canada at least the insurance allows those that have it a way to pay for treatments and procedures they wouldn't otherwise be able to afford. Are you saying that if I'm not paying my $600/month in medical insurance that I'll suddenly be able to pay for things outright?
I don't really understand your position on this.
That's easy, 80 year old pays hospital bills via her insurance. That is auto insurance, that will be needed.
You get a cold, you go to doctor ... they ask for your insurace and say pay up 20. Then they spend 12 man hours recovering the negotiated rate of $25 so its $5 more from insurance.
Instead, you'd pay 25 and they dont do nothing. They dont even ask for insurance. Its that negotiated rate that is the killer. It also is what puts the self payers out of the picture, and it is what gets the huge staff the doctor has to waste time getting that $.
Not libertarian theoretical garbage, That system is alive and well in many countries, India is a good example, have you heard of medical tourism, look it up, un insured its cheaper to fly to India and get a procedure done instead of doing it here with insurance.
Cool.
Buddha.
And shockingly ... my MIL has 2 knee's replaced. She paid for them herself, and guess what they cost. Somewhere near $1000 installed. Yea a grand. They are not used knees either, proper new chinese made knees just like the ones you get here.
Your deductible here will be over 5g. That is after the 1000 bucks insurance will pay in negotiated rate.
Cool.
Buddha.
Where is this?
My insurance still had to pay $17,000 of my 10 minute life flight that price would be 28,000. Also, Buddha you are entitled to an estimate from the hospital before they do any services I did that at NEMC when I was going there the first time in case I did have to pay out of pocket. But, in an emergency is that something you really want to think about?
Primary doctors really aren't making that much money my doc has had to file for bankruptcy because her malpractice insurance is approximately 30% of her income which comes out after her taxes, she is still paying off her school loans, and her retirement was wiped out in the economic down turn. She was a 4th year resident at the hospital closest to the World trade center.
Mary
Quote from: The Buddha on October 17, 2011, 06:46:04 AM
No one needs to run health care, cos there will be no healthcare. Who runs fast food ? OK fine pepsi and coke run it.
However they are chasing each other to the bottom. That will occour unless the big companies are colluding. That will be a "cartel" and there fore illegal. Competition is good. Just needs to be a true competition.
Fast food is held in check due to the fact that they have to publish prices. No we'll do this for you and send you a bill later, we dunno how much what is ... but we'll bill your insurance company and get paid, all is cool ... makes it all very expensive.
When you walk in you know you're out for 3-4-5 bucks depending on what you are eating. Same with a hospital.
Cool.
Buddha.
and if youre broke, do you just go die?
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on October 31, 2011, 09:07:25 PM
and if youre broke, do you just go die?
Now you are starting to get it.
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on October 31, 2011, 08:26:22 PM
Where is this?
My insurance still had to pay $17,000 of my 10 minute life flight that price would be 28,000. Also, Buddha you are entitled to an estimate from the hospital before they do any services I did that at NEMC when I was going there the first time in case I did have to pay out of pocket. But, in an emergency is that something you really want to think about?
Primary doctors really aren't making that much money my doc has had to file for bankruptcy because her malpractice insurance is approximately 30% of her income which comes out after her taxes, she is still paying off her school loans, and her retirement was wiped out in the economic down turn. She was a 4th year resident at the hospital closest to the World trade center.
Mary
You're entitled to a price list, in fact you should see prices on the wall.
I dunno about flights etc cos In India we dont have that, no example to go off of.
However ambulances in India are pretty similar to taxicabs. They run close to 2-3X of a taxi but the rest all is the same.
Yamahon: By that example - "and if youre broke, do you just go die?" - people in India should be dropping dead like flies.
I hate to tell you this over and over and over, medical is expensive because thyere is no accountability. If you kill insurance guess what will happen - your doctor will settle into what is reasonable in the location you are in. You dont see stores selling burgers for $5 do you ... OK so you wont see doctors charging $150 per sneeze ... Docs make less than 30 bucks per patient. 20 from the patient they get in an instant, and then they waste 4 hours trying to get the other 10. Kill that system. We are wasting doctors time, charge 30 bucks @ the door and no one needs insurance the doctor gets to run on a smaller staff and you pay 30 bucks and it ends there.
Once again -
IT IS EXPENSIVE COS THERE IS NO PRICE DISCOVERY.
Prices on the wall and no insurance will drop this into the reach of everyone as well as make doctors more $ by cutting off the overhead. I know for 10 doctors and 12 nurses my local place uses 25 more paper pushers. Dont need it. 4 paper pushers max for 10 doctors and 12 nurses.
You dont need to be hit with a 30,000 bill for being hooked up to a dialysis machine, we have those in India and I dount they charge you any more than 50-100 equivalent. Insurance is the problem, and worse yet they are also squeezing doctors on the other side.
If you were broke and had no insurance now, you go die.
If you're broke and there was no insurance at all ever, the doctor will see you with whatever you can pay them, that's the worlds basic rule - aka supply and demand thrown in with a bit of human tendency. Seriously, without insurance I'll pay my doctors with fork braces or round covers if I was broke.
Cool.
Srinath.
See there is price discovery we are just too lazy to get the price. Since, you like using fast food lets use this analogy fast food restaraunts would never put the calories of their food on the wrapper and that was the excuse for our obesity pandemic. So, several states mandated it thinking if people knew the calories they were ingesting that they would calm down. Guess what happened? Nothing and it will be the same thing with hospitals price boards. If my heart is acting up and I need an EKG and ORMC across the street from where my chest pain started said an EKG was $250 but I know if went across town and had it done at my PCPs office where with my insurance co-pay would be $0. Do you think I'm going to do that? NO, because I could go into cardiac arrest trying to drive my dumb a$$ over or sitting in the PCPs office for 2 hours in pain because I didn't have an appointment.
Putting a price on the wall isn't going to change that much because 1) People don't care 2) People can't afford to care 3) They could very well die trying to save a few bucks.
Mary
That price on the wall should be fixed. No insurance nothing ... 100 bucks is 100 bucks. Dont care what insurance you got.
You do know when that gets mandated insurance companies will drop that hospital. That will simply put get that hospital into the street ... unless it was mandated it will be stuck as the only one.
Seriously it costs you 250, but your insurance only pays them 20. You pay 20 deductible, that makes it 40 that the hospital gets ... that is why insurance exists. Inflated prices wont be helped just by discovery, it needs to be set as the price, no insurance garbage. Heck I'd say publish all of those too. Your price 100, BCBS price $25, Cigna $30, Aetna 25, humana 30 ...
Publishing 1 is being unfair to that 1 ...
You guys are confusing what the service is originally priced @ vs what they actually get for it, they have to publish everything.
Cool.
Buddha.
And of course it has to be the law. They're not going to publish that you pay 250 while if you has BCBS they will take $25. In fact the guy/gal @ the desk where you check in they dont even know. They put in a code and the back office guys send it and eventually they see what shows up.
They have to publish everything ... in any other case it wont work.
BTW doctors make over 1/2 their $ from your deductible and put in less than 1/100th the work getting it.
Cool.
Buddha.
fair enouhg. then do we make medical school 1/10th the cost of what it curently is?, and re-imburse those whove already graduated?
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on November 01, 2011, 09:05:21 PM
fair enouhg. then do we make medical school 1/10th the cost of what it curently is?, and re-imburse those whove already graduated?
Hell no. The doctors dont make that much $ right now. This plan will get rid of 50% of the paper pushers in the doctors office, 100% of the paper pushers in the insurance industry and give doctors the same anout of $, save the patients lots of $, time and hassles supporting this bureaucrazy.
The tuition fees being super high etc is another independent story.
The basic premise is this - you pay 500 a month to insurance co, then pay 20 bucks @ every doc visit. The doc has a $200 per visit rate which they want to charge you. Of course insurance pays them something like $10 after they send them bills a 100 times. That is $30 the doc makes. Its cost you $520 cos you pay insurance, essentially the $500 to insurance to have them strongarm the doctor into taking 10 bucks where they were asking for 200.
Screw that ... you pay the doc say the same 30 and they dont have the 20 paper pushers, it really will make them more $.
What they need to do in the first place is that full price discovery - mainly cos sometimes even they dont know what they get paid. I know cos I went though this garbage in 2006 to fight against labcorp. They get $3 for a $300 test on average. The bigger and more $ tests they get smaller percentage. A $5000 test will get them 25 bucks maybe. They made some lousy error when I took my son for a battery of tests. I had insurance for the first 3 draws, which had to be in 4 draws cos the labcorp Idiots couldn't classify and add, anyway they tried to charge me for the last draw wiht rather conveniently were 2 tests that listed for 5000 and 4000. I rifled through a ton of paperwork and found out they got like $3 for a 300 test and that was that ... I crushed them. I offered them 90 bucks and they said they dont bother, will close teh case in a round about way.
Cool.
Buddha.
Don't have a deductible, never had one even with Disney. So how are they getting half of nothing? More and more people are going this route. I also have no co-pays so my doc is only getting the $45 that Medicare schedules them. So, they get $22.50 per patient at 4 an hour for 7 hours 1 hour lunch would be $630 total. Subtract 30% for malpractice insurance leaves $441 a day to pay staff such as RN assistants, reciptionist, referrals, and lab costs. So, not seeing where they make a lot of money. The reason I'm using Medicare is because she told me 80% of her patients use Medicare. If they didn't have to pay anyone else or taxes at $78.50 and hour it would be eh for 10+ years of schooling.
Mary
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on November 03, 2011, 09:25:00 AM
Don't have a deductible, never had one even with Disney. So how are they getting half of nothing? More and more people are going this route. I also have no co-pays so my doc is only getting the $45 that Medicare schedules them. So, they get $22.50 per patient at 4 an hour for 7 hours 1 hour lunch would be $630 total. Subtract 30% for malpractice insurance leaves $441 a day to pay staff such as RN assistants, reciptionist, referrals, and lab costs. So, not seeing where they make a lot of money. The reason I'm using Medicare is because she told me 80% of her patients use Medicare. If they didn't have to pay anyone else or taxes at $78.50 and hour it would be eh for 10+ years of schooling.
Mary
More like 10 an hour, when did you get 15 mins with a doc. Mine is always in and out in 5 min max, in fact I barely spend 15 @ the doc in the room 5 min with nurse, 5 wait and 5 with doc. I'd put it close to 15 patients per hr, but your math is good.
Docs dont make much $, we pay tons to insurance, the $ has to go some where.
Cool.
Buddha.
ive been lucky to even see a doc. most of the time it was a nurse or CPA ( certified physicians assistant. ) and my kidneys continue to fail. hoping disability pans out. had my case/hearing on the 3rd. THEIR witness ended up agreeing in my favour.
Yea for my son too, once the treatment is set, the regular visits are taken up by the nurse, and in a way they are phenomenal. This one my son sees is pretty old, and very experienced and I'd easily put her against most doctors. More importantly she will check things on us that are bothering us and treat or give us advice even though we are there for my son's treatment.
Seriously guys, if insurance were to die a sudden death this system will correct and heal itself and get back on course.
When you need your car fixed what do you do - pay for it, when you need your house fixed what you do - pay for it, why the Fruck is it any different when you need your body fixed.
Cool.
Buddha.
more i think about this more i agree ohh mighty brown one. :bowdown:
(http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u360/gstwin/big_bowdown.gif) if obummer drops his law. requiring me to pay for insurance i cant get, then id support this. i literally cannot buy a policy now. yet am required to have one by '14.
That law will get stuck down in many states, the problem is some states are not going to, and oddly a few right wing judges upheld it yesterday in DC dsitrict court - WTF. They were regan and bush appointees, WTF is all i can say.
That law is there specifically to prevent this idea of mine from taking hold.
However Mitt romney then will not be good for this thought to take hold, as the next president, he is too far into that same line of reasoning. Ron Paul is the only one who's taken a stand against it AFAIK. Oh yea Backmann.
BTW mandating it is a good way to get more people to break the law though.
Cool.
Buddha.
course i could refuse to pay the penalty. and ill get my healthcare. ( in jail)
Geeez American healthcare seems too hard and confusing and expensive.
Quote from: aussiegs on November 11, 2011, 06:56:23 AM
Geeez American healthcare seems too hard and confusing and expensive.
Take out the confusion and you lose the expensive part.
BTW is every doctor told you what they get after your insurance is done paying it you will immediately say, OK I'll pay that right now to you and you're get on your phone and kill that insurance. IMHO the biggest losers in this system are the doctors.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: aussiegs on November 11, 2011, 06:56:23 AM
Geeez American healthcare seems too hard and confusing and expensive.
hte uni healthcare thing the LW is touting , id go for it, BUT, 1 i cant afford the taxation required to pay for it. which inevitably would rise, because of this govts track record of managing money VERY nicely [/sarcasm] for at least the last 4 decades. if my disability claim doesnt go through i wont make it to the next one. just dont have it in me. only way i can get it thanks to obummer now, is 3 ways, one, become female, ( errm no ive got dangly bits there. ) 2 have kids. ( perhaps but this state wants me to have children when 1 im male, and 2 i cant afford my own upkeep let alone children., become somehting other than white male. told to me point blank. htey gave me a royal WTF when i said isnt that kinda racist? lol. and final choice is to draw disability. which seems to be going to happen. had my hearing nov 3rd. hte injun system buddha, actually does sound good. hell if i could drive there, if it werent for that minor puddle called hte pacific, id go. according to googlemaps i shaZam! you not, i drive to seattle, and walk or canoe across pacific to HI, and hten to japan and into asia lol
We don't pay a lot for our healthcare, mind you at the rate the USA is hemroging money it will take decades before its in a place to run it properly.
thats IF we start spending wisely. i again use the small business model. basically spend no more than you take in. now may i ask your rate of taxation? say, income, sales state/local/federal etc etc overall average or a roundabout ballpark?
Top income rate is 50c in the dollar.
We also pay 10% tax on the sales price of all goods and services. A $110 TV will have $10 tax on it, a $110 house clean will have $10 tax on it.
Every product
Every service - lawn, cleaning, car washing, painting, carpet cleaning, dog washing, etc. 10%. Then those who provide those services pay their regular income tax.
THEN, in addition, we also pay an Extra Medical Tax based as a percentage of our income.
Now our fackwit leaders have introduces a Carbon Tax (bullsh!t). As if that's gonna save anything friggin thing.
If you do not enroll to vote you are fined. If you don't vote after you enroll you are fined.
We export our own gas to 40 countries yet pay $1.50+ per liter ($6 a gallon). Have the highest cost public transport going. We even have to pay a Departure Tax when leaving at the airport WTF!?
But, what we don't have is a country on our border (surrounded by sea) where "illegals" cross and work cheap. We have the same number of politicians as England does with 1/4 the population. We pay some of the highest vehicle registration in the world.
Most people do try to better themselves. And banks are actually quite tough to get money from. For instance, no 18 year old could have a half dozen credit cards with no job.
Michael
That in a way is similar to India, especially that credit part, interestingly no one there has a credit card. Its generally accepted in very few and only very $$$ places.
Income taxes are high, sales taxes though are almost non existent, or were non existent, cos you buy everything without a receipt. It wont work with the US infrastructre we have though, in a way most of the non official labor - house painters, construction workers, handymen, as well as any one who doesn't have an office per se usually asks for cash and never gives you a receipt. Its all un taxed. Sorta like greece where it is a matter of national pride to not pay taxes. In india it is somethign no one is ever aware of.
Anyway medical system is completely different though. Paying for things with cash will make it all cheaper. These thigns have inflation @ higher than national average only due to expansion of credit.
Of course In india we print $ to cover govt expenses. Tax is a small problem, inflation is a bigger problem.
Cool.
Buddha.
buddha im beginning to like hte idea of their healthcare system. as long as theres something in place for thsoe who are broke, and cannot afford much, they still can get help. not likea restaurant, where if youre broke = youre hungry. will this happen here. no. obummer will tax me to an early grave before his wonderful mcClusterfuck of a healthcare system goes into effect. the people that praise it have no idea whats inside. i saw what was inside. including the monorail systems . i just wont pay the fine. let them jail me. at least ill get my care that i MUST have this way lol.